From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 10 15:23:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29511 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:22:59 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA01367 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:24:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:24:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199906102024.PAA01367@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1254 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1254 In this digest: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia IN> FJ IN> Habbalh and angels Re: IN> Vessels IN> Re:And the Bands played on Re: IN> Habbalh and angels IN> Baal's serveitor's hearts Re: IN> Baal's serveitor's hearts Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray AftermathCampaign Seed Re: IN> Habbalh and angels Re: IN> Habbalh and angels Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori IN> The Weather in Hell Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray AftermathCampaign Seed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:06:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia At 5:45 PM -0500 6/8/99, Eeyore wrote: >The question: resonances are used frequently to establish whether a >character is celstial or human, and often achieve this on fairly low >check digits. Is this the way it is intended to work? This game makes >it seem like it isn't difficult *at all* to tell whether someone is >clestial or human, and that's not the sense I got from the rulebooks. I think it's partly a style question -- if the GM wishes, then a low- CD resonance can get really lucky. If not, then not. (Though the GM should certainly keep it consistent!) Perception resonances which get "trigger" Needs can get very specific ones (Please My Prince) or vague (please my boss who has great control over me); the same with the Elohite and Seraphic resonance. (You'll also note that Fiat has the house rules of getting more than one Need at a time, generally.) Further note that if you're a Cherub or any demon but a Lilim, you've pretty much got no way to tell, still. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:12:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> FJ > > The question: resonances are used frequently to establish whether a > > character is celstial or human, and often achieve this on fairly low > > check digits. Is this the way it is intended to work? This game makes > > it seem like it isn't difficult *at all* to tell whether someone is > > clestial or human, and that's not the sense I got from the rulebooks. > > Fiat Justica has a house rule on the Lilim resonance that you get *all* > the Needs up to the level of your check digit. This makes the Lilim > resonance a pretty good Celestial detector, even on a low check digit, > when it wouldn't be if you only got one Need. I think that was a Holy War house rule originally, and it just kind of glommed on to me. I can't really remember anymore, but Holy War and it's bevy of House Rules predates Fiat by about a year, and by that time, several things Lilim had just become how things worked. That was one of them --- I know it's not supported in the canonical texts anywhere, but I can point to the stories I wrote where it comes up, since they're still available on the web. I had always figured "you get up to..." instead of "you get blah". This comes from my initial misreading of the sourcebook - -- which is where about 90% of ALL my house rules come from. I honestly cannot remember if there was discussion on how this worked or not. I suspect there was. There are canonical rules and there are Em's rules, and Em is old and stodgy and mean and about to get older on Saturday, so they never seem to change. :) - - Em Current Quote: Daimon intones some stuff and makes some handwavings. Daimon contacts the demiurge! Demiurge says "I AM HERE." Demiurge says "WHAT DO YOU DESIRE, MY SERVANT?" Daimon says "I DESIRE A COPY OF FF8 IN ENGLISH." Demiurge says "Sorry, no can do." Daimon says "Damn. What good are you?" Demiurge can condemn your character to eternal torment, baby. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:18:00 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: IN> Habbalh and angels Okay, the books state that Habballah believe they are angels working in Hell in order to strengthen humans. Now, is this delusion common to - -all- Habbalh, even ones created in Hell? I can see the Fallen Elohim needing such self-deception in order to exist, but are the ones made down there also walking around thinking they're doing Heaven's work? - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:24:12 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Vessels > > Jason Terlecki > > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/tiny.problem.html > > A short vignette than answers all your questions. I read it, I doubt it's canon, and don't you need the Celestial Song of Fruition to do it? I'd say Michael would be more prone to -seriously- punish that angel since she would have had to have used the (forbidden) Song to get pregnant. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:57:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ratoslov Lenev Subject: IN> Re:And the Bands played on I LOVE it! Drama, romance, conflict... The humans'll be LINING UP for WEEKS! This is the best thing since STAR WARS! Seriously, I like it. Can't wait for the writeups of the Princes. Although, I can't imagine that all of the angels left the Damned to their Fates... I can see... Neo-Princess Novalis, Prince of Flowers: The world is destroyed, but flowers will still grow, in the hearts and minds of humanity. Neo-Prince Yves, Prince of Destiny The world? ... Neo-Prince Eli, Prince of Destiny And, of course, I'd imagine that ther are more than a few new princes in the war... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:06:47 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Habbalh and angels In a message dated 6/9/99 10:18:07 PM, steelangel@cruzers.com writes: >Okay, the books state that Habballah believe they are angels working in >Hell in order to strengthen humans. Now, is this delusion common to >-all- Habballah, even ones created in Hell? I can see the Fallen Elohim >needing such self-deception in order to exist, but are the ones made >down there also walking around thinking they're doing Heaven's work? > >- Abracax: Shedite of Riots > Yes, the Habballah are all delusional, even the hellborn ones. The most recent theory I heard and liked was that it's all due to peer pressure, which, being from creatures who can manipulate your emotions, is quite intense. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:50:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ratoslov Lenev Subject: IN> Baal's serveitor's hearts Question: How come Baal has any servitors survive trauma? When his servitors appear next to their hearts, they appear in a bioling hot lake of molten sulphur, *and* Baal has arranged it so that if you have immunity to heat/fire, it expires once you touch your heart. Thus, any servitor who winds up dead in the corporeal plane winds up sitting on/touching his heart, which then fries them. Kobal gets a kick out of this, though. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:07:08 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Baal's serveitor's hearts Ratoslov wrote: > Question: How come Baal has any servitors survive > trauma? When his servitors appear next to their hearts, > > they appear in a bioling hot lake of molten sulphur, > *and* Baal has arranged it so that if you have immunity > to heat/fire, it expires once you touch your heart. > Thus, any servitor who winds up dead in the corporeal > plane winds up sitting on/touching his heart, which > then fries them. Kobal gets a kick out of this, though. I think you'll find that you're referring to Belial, not Baal. Also, when your Corporeal vessel dies, you end up spending a lot of time staring at your heart. From memory, nowhere in the rules does it say you touch your heart in trauma. So as long as Belial's servants don't reach out and touch, no problem. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:13:42 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed Cool campaign idea! I loved it! Now as much as I hate messing with other people's work, (I'm a purist at heart and find it difficult to stray from canon) I would make one minor change to your world. BRING BACK SAMINGA!!! I hate to say it, but I love the big dumb jerk! Plus it would create a certain irony. Everything is in upheaval, the basic nature of the universe has changed, but Saminga is still Saminga, sitting in Abaddon, shouting "Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!" at the sky, and working toward Zombi Earth. A sick little constant in a changing universe. Just my two cents worth, Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:50:05 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray AftermathCampaign Seed At 03:13 AM 6/10/99 EDT, you wrote: > I hate to say it, but I love the big dumb jerk! Plus it would create a >certain irony. Everything is in upheaval, the basic nature of the universe >has changed, but Saminga is still Saminga, sitting in Abaddon, shouting >"Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!" at the sky, and working toward Zombi Earth. A sick >little constant in a changing universe. Plus, you've got to think that after the Apocalypse, Saminga's going to have just piles and piles of bodies waiting around to reanimate. ;) Actually, why was Saminga weakened when he returned from Earth? He may have been kind of sore, but his Word would have been strengthened each and every time something died; it should at least have balanced out. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:26:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Habbalh and angels At 3:18 PM -0700 6/9/99, Steel Angel wrote: >Okay, the books state that Habballah believe they are angels working in >Hell in order to strengthen humans. Now, is this delusion common to >-all- Habbalh, even ones created in Hell? Yes -- at least publically. After all, the Fallen Habbalah would have killed any new-fledged Habbalah who espoused any other theory. And think a moment -- if you were a demonling who got kicked around and beaten up and abused, wouldn't _you_ like to believe that you'd been chosen by God? Raised up out of the muck of the gutter for a shining, bloody Purpose? And all the Habbalah around you are willing to indoctrinate you into their beliefs... (Which may or may not be mutually compatible, of course. Talk about religious wars.) And of _course_ they use their resonance on each other. It's a nice little quick test of strength... It's also part of the warp that _makes_ Habbalah out of Elohim -- the feeling that your every _whim_ is inspired by something greater than yourself. Your anger is something you _should_ express, because it's right. God told you. You wouldn't FEEL it if it weren't something you should act on. So while there might be some few Habbalah who haven't gone into the feel-good delusion that they're angels -- they're few and far between, and they don't talk about it. Or so I tend to figure, most of the time. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:54:37 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Habbalh and angels At 12:26 PM -0400 6/10/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 3:18 PM -0700 6/9/99, Steel Angel wrote: > >Okay, the books state that Habballah believe they are angels working in > >Hell in order to strengthen humans. Now, is this delusion common to > >-all- Habbalh, even ones created in Hell? > > > >Yes -- at least publically. After all, the Fallen Habbalah would have >killed any new-fledged Habbalah who espoused any other theory. And think >a moment -- if you were a demonling who got kicked around and beaten up >and abused, wouldn't _you_ like to believe that you'd been chosen by >God? Raised up out of the muck of the gutter for a shining, bloody >Purpose? And all the Habbalah around you are willing to indoctrinate >you into their beliefs... (Which may or may not be mutually compatible, >of course. Talk about religious wars.) And of _course_ they use their >resonance on each other. It's a nice little quick test of strength... > >It's also part of the warp that _makes_ Habbalah out of Elohim -- the >feeling that your every _whim_ is inspired by something greater than >yourself. Your anger is something you _should_ express, because it's >right. God told you. You wouldn't FEEL it if it weren't something you >should act on. > >So while there might be some few Habbalah who haven't gone into the >feel-good delusion that they're angels -- they're few and far between, >and they don't talk about it. > > > >Or so I tend to figure, most of the time. > Which means I have to ask.... Vapula. He just... doesn't seem Habbalah to me. He seems almost Djinn-like with his obsession for technology, and of course he doesn't care about the subjects of his experiments, but he *doesn't* seem like a Sadist (and certainly doesn't seem like an Instrument of God's Punishment) so much as someone who would sacrifice everything to the alter of Science. (I personally play him as a Habbalite, but I had to file the corners off him to make it fit). Comments/thoughts/am I missing something basic here? - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:16:50 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> 'Dream Stories' and a question At 13:28 -0400 6/3/99, EDG wrote: >> Now for my question. My local gaming store hasn't any copies of >> Heaven >>and Hell and, running a game with Kronos as a Superior, I wonder what >>was meant in the IPG by saying that Kronos's classification as a >>Balseraph is a lie. Then what -is- he and does it have any important >>ramifications I should be aware of? > >Kronos's classification as a Balseraph is kind of like Yves's >classification as a Seraph... and that's all I can tell you, friend Citizen. Actually, I don't think Yves has ever been stated to be of any Choir; in fact, I think there's a statement in the APG's angelic history that Michael was the first *angel*, which means that Yves isn't even an angel, exactly. Kronos is apparently the same sort of entity, but this is known to only a *very* few people -- Lucifer, presumably Yves, and *maybe* Kronos himself. I would also assume God knows, and perhaps Raphael knew. I don't think anyone else does in canon, at least for sure. Everyone else thinks he's a Balseraph. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:34:50 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The Fallen Grigori I think there will be some Grigori canon in the not-too-distant future. I believe *some* Fallen Grigori are in there. (There weren't all that many Grigori to start with, and a lot were killed.) I'm not sure what their resonance is going to be, but I once proposed something similar to your scheme -- it makes sense that someone whose title is "The Watchers" would probably turn into something that's good at hiding. BTW, your computer seems to be in a time warp: >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:33:01 +0100 - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:45:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> The Weather in Hell Want to know the weather forecast for Hell? Try this: http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-hellweather.html Updated daily, or so they claim... djd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:21:22 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> And the Bands Played On: Bright Victory, Gray AftermathCampaign Seed In a message dated 6/10/99 5:52:28 AM Central Daylight Time, anthoch@earlham.edu writes: << Plus, you've got to think that after the Apocalypse, Saminga's going to have just piles and piles of bodies waiting around to reanimate. ;) >> Another thing. What exactly happened on earth? What's left? What percentage of the world is still around? Is post-apocalypse earth now business as usual? Or is it a Scorched Earth scenario, with big craters where major cities used to be? Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1254 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.