From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 15 22:35:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00016 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:35:26 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA11136 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:37:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:37:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199906160337.WAA11136@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1258 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1258 In this digest: Re: IN> Vapula the Habbalite Re: IN> Habbalh and angels Re: IN> And The Bands Played On; Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed Cain and Saminga (was Re: IN> And the Bands Played On Re: IN>And the Bands Played On Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1256 Re: Cain and Saminga (was Re: IN> And the Bands Played On IN> And the Bands Played On: The State of the Afterlives Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1256 Re: IN> And The Bands Played On; Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed IN> We are a clearing house for targeted email lists, general lists and for advertising !!! IN> We are a clearing house for targeted email lists, general lists and for advertising !! Re: IN> And The Bands Played On ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:03:12 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Vapula the Habbalite David Edelstein > >Nice vignette, Neel. I admit, even I was having trouble figuring out >exactly how Vapula's delusion works -- but that was an excellent portrayal. Thanks. It's not original to me, though -- it's a mix of some ideas from Jo and some others from one of the players in my game. BTW, I sent you a largish email about Hinduism a couple days back, and didn't hear from you -- did it arrive, or do I need to resend it? - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:25:45 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> Habbalh and angels On Thu, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:54:37PM -0400, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > He just... doesn't seem Habbalah to me. He seems almost Djinn-like > with his obsession for technology, and of course he doesn't care > about the subjects of his experiments, but he *doesn't* seem like a > Sadist (and certainly doesn't seem like an Instrument of God's > Punishment) so much as someone who would sacrifice everything to the > alter of Science. > I'd like to insert my own theories about what Vapula is like here. Vapula is not a punisher. Vapula isn't interested in fighting the War, or leading humans to their Fates. Those are simply things that he does in order to keep his job, with no particular enthusiasm for them. Neither does he see himself as God, or as his chosen successor. Vapula is in search of spiritual enlightenment. Being a Habbalite, he views enlightenment in terms of struggle, and seeks a mighty opponent that he can prove himself against. And what mightier opponent than God's Creation? God in His Wisdom made Creation imperfect that it might be improved upon, and Vapula is out there trying to improve it. He's made errors, of course, but his true work has hardly begun. It will probably take millions of years for it to be completed, and even then he might fail. It's an immense challenge, and very exciting of course. As for his relations with others, he sees the Demon Princes as being fatally flawed by their own egotism, and the Archangels as being blinded by self-righteousness and needless subservience. It would be nice if Lucifer could look beyond his petty desire for revenge or if Jean could apply his undoubted (though blinkered) intellect to the same challenges Vapula has, but it is not to be. At least, not yet it isn't. (More prosaically, the authors thought it would be a good idea to have a Habbalite Demon Prince, and made him Jean's opposite for the sake of symmetry.) (For an alternate vision of a very Vapula-like character, see Deaner Beckmann in Stephen Donaldson's Gap Series. Saving humanity through gravitic tissue mutation. What a guy.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "In this section the expression "secret society" means an association, society, or other body the members of which are required by the regulations thereof to take or enter into, or do in fact take or enter into an oath, affirmation, declaration or agreement not to disclose the proceedings or some part of the proceedings of the association, society, or body." Offences Against the State Act, 1939, Appendix A, Section 3.2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:04:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On; Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed Novalis and Jordi might want to move on to the new heavens and new earth that are prophecied as coming after Armageddon. As to the food chain on the abandonned Old Earth -- that's Lucifer's problem now, isn't it? Sounds like a project Vapula (if he survived) would love to tackle. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:12:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Cain and Saminga (was Re: IN> And the Bands Played On > From: Steel Angel > Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On > > gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > > What is this "power" you think Cain has? Biblically (which is one of the > > few sources for information about Cain), Cain has nothing going for him. > > He was banished from the presence of God and had a mark set upon him as a > > sign of that. He wouldn't scare a Demon Prince by smiling, he'd have the > > Demon Princes squabbling over who gets the first murderer. > > You know, since it -was- the first human death, it would probably be > everyone's favourite doofus, Saminga. Kinda funny, when you think about > it. Depending on how long Cain's life was, isn't it possible he would have died before Saminga became a Prince? He became one around 1200 B.C. if I remember his Night Music write up. Unless Cain was immortal, he would already been dead for quite a while and assigned to a Principality. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:46:21 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN>And the Bands Played On In a message dated 6/13/99 8:15:16 PM Central Daylight Time, ben@HiWAAY.net writes: << Eli: Some servitors of Eli might choose to stay to encourage the rebuilding and creation of new things on Earth, while others might choose to stay because "there's just so many cool people and things" in the world." >> I could even see Eli himself choosing to stay. He has divorced himself from the war after all. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:00:14 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1256 Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Reading the wording of the transcripts it occured to me that the ban > against slaying Cain could equally apply to slaying him Celestially as > well. Which would mean after Cain had died of old age (if he hadn't > managed to learn the Corporeal Song of Healing) he would have a lot of > freedom to roam Hell. And like Adam, Eve, and Lilith, Cain would proably > be 15 Force human. A powerful human, walking around in Hell, with no > demon daring to harm him due to the mark on his celestial form. Now > imagine figuring out that one day, God will leave the world and he'll lose > his immunity. > > I think Cain has moved up in the ranks as a canidate for Sorceror > Superior. Now do remember, nothing keeps a sufficiently powerful Prince from just imprisoning him and forgetting about him. As long as you don't kill or hurt him (just to be safe) you can keep him sonewhere forever. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:09:07 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: Cain and Saminga (was Re: IN> And the Bands Played On Benjamin Acosta wrote: > Depending on how long Cain's life was, isn't it possible he would have > died before Saminga became a Prince? He became one around 1200 B.C. if I > remember his Night Music write up. Unless Cain was immortal, he would > already been dead for quite a while and assigned to a Principality. Then he'd belong to Vathek, Haballah holder of the Word of Jealousy, one of Malphas's play pretties.(IPG) Since Cain killed Abel out of jealousy that God liked Abel's sacrifice of the blood of his favourite sheep better than some bunch of fruit and grain. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:36:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> And the Bands Played On: The State of the Afterlives When God granted Lucifer the Symphony after the War a few changes occured to what happened to souls when they died. Before Armageddon there were only two final destinations for souls, Heaven and Hell. Souls did reincarnate, or become ghosts or dream-shades, but these were considered temporary waystations between the two realms. Sooner or later a soul would meet its Destiny or Fate and end up in Heaven or Hell. Eventually, even the most stubborn dream-shade would relinquish his grasp and move to its final destination. Neither the Pagan Gods nor Bladine or Beleth could prevent the inevitable. With God's withdrawl from the World, this has changed. Now the non-damned who die can remain in the Marches indefinitely. There is no pull towards Heaven. Most of the dead who end up staying in the Marches are followers of an Ethereal god. Others are just lucid dreamers who prefer an afterlife of their own making. If a dream-shade meets its Fate it will feel the pull towards Hell, just like in times before. However there's no corresponding pull on those who meet their Destiny. They simply can choose to remain in the Marches. Any dead soul in the Marches can choose to leave and reincarnate at any time. Most non-damned who don't worship an Ethereal wind up reincarnating. While those who meet their Fate wind up in Hell, those who meet their Destiny simply wind up in the Marches as a dream-shade. They can either choose to stay, reincarnate again, or if they choose to do so, try to reach Heaven. The biggest change in the post-apocolyptic world is that going to Heaven is no longer simply a matter of meeting your Destiny. One must decide to go to Heaven, and make a conscious effort to do so. Anyone who knows how can try to make the journey. It is a very difficult one, though, and not everyone who tries succeeds. Those who wish to ascend to Heaven must first go to the base of Gabriel's Volcano in the Marches. The Volcono is one of the markers of the boundary between Heaven and the Marches. This is where the Symphonies of God and Lucifer mingle and clash, creating powerful storms which increase in intensiity the further one goes up the mountain. To reach Heaven one must ascend up the narrow, tortuous path which goes up the side of the mountain. It's hard to find, and never seems to be in the same place twice. Not only that, but one must contend with incredible wind and rain produced by the storms. Many times a hopeful soul slips back down the path, or is blown off by the winds entirely to some other part of the Marches. One must either be very skilled or very determined to reach the top, especially after multiple failures. Those that succeed in reaching the top presumably enter the Lower Heavens. There, some say, the Archangel Uriel and his Tsaydim dwells. Now humble and penitent, Uriel and his servitors wait in the Lower Heavens, ready to help the repentent purify the themselves and redeem the Outcast and the Fallen (for angels and demons may also make the climb) so that they may ascend Jacob's Ladder and rejoin God in the Upper Heavens. Even here, one does not have to commit into ascending. Those who feel reluctant may choose to tarry in the Lower Heavens and assist in the Work. One may even choose to return to the World, though not many do due to the struggle and effort it took to get there. It is from one of the few who claimed to have done so, in order to spread the hope of salvation, that the above is known. The damned, of course, go to Hell, but even the permenency of that destination is in question. The anchor which ties souls to Hell seems to be weakened, and Infernal Saints are a possibility now. The Utopia Faction knows how to create them. Theoretically, the Hardliners could figure it out also, but it is not in their interest to send damned souls back to Earth. Unfortunately for the damned, Asmodeus still holds the Gates of Hell, so any living damned who die end up in the Hardliners hands. At least until the Utopia Faction liberates some. Infernal Saints, of course, don't have that problem. Just like ordinary Saints they coalesce back in the home of the Superior who sent them to Earth. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:29:14 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1256 At 4:00 PM -0700 6/14/99, Steel Angel wrote: > > Now do remember, nothing keeps a sufficiently powerful Prince from just >imprisoning him and forgetting about him. As long as you don't kill or >hurt him (just to be safe) you can keep him sonewhere forever. > >- Abracax: Shedite of Riots In that case, I'd imagine Cain to be a sort of bad luck magnet to any place that either harbors or holds him. Eventually said Prince would get the message. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:18:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On; Bright Victory, Gray Aftermath Campaign Seed On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Novalis and Jordi might want to move on to the new heavens and new earth > that are prophecied as coming after Armageddon. As to the food chain on > the abandonned Old Earth -- that's Lucifer's problem now, isn't it? > Sounds like a project Vapula (if he survived) would love to tackle. I can see it now! Vapula at his desk (-real- mad scientists use pen and paper, not computers, I tell ya), drawing up the plans for the Earth Ecosystem, Mark II. "Hmmm... there should be... dinosaurs! Slavering beasts with great big teeth and scales and jaws that bite and claws that catch and..." *reduced to drools and mad giggles, with much frothing at the mouth and such, then suddenly regaining his senses (or, well, seemingly, at least)* "But one should start with the little things. Bacteria, algae, fungi, bugs... Bugs! With hairy legs and lots of nasty eyes that fly into your face and go 'bzzzZZZZzzZZZzzZZzZz!' in a really annoying way when you're trying to sleep, and the room is a little bit too hot because the spiders have spun their itty-bitty nets inside the air-conditioning and you just can't figure out why it doesn't work like it's supposed to and... where was I? Oh, yes, bugs. Poisonous bugs, that move in really nasty ways, with all their little legs waving every which wave and really icky mating habits and I hate them I hate them I hate them!" *continues to vigorously express his hatred for bugs while stomping around on the floor, raising puffs of dust, then collapses in his chair, somewhat winded, wiping the sweat from his brow* "Oh yes, bugs are good... there must be many of those." *a quick fit of giggles, one foot stomping a bit... then frowns* "I suppose there should have to be some plants... But they're so boring! That bitch Novy never understood how much fun there is to be had with them... at least Jordi put some teeth on his things. Teeth! That's it! Huge, towering trees with great big teeth! Snatching up people left, right and center and gnash! Biting their heads off! *suddenly rises from his chair, imitating a great big tree, lumbering from side to side, making sweeping motions with his arms, as if he were scooping up smurfs from the floor, and then pretending to bite their heads off* "Gnash! Gnash! Gnash!" Lucifer would get his eco-system alright... Whew, I think I'd better lie down now. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:05:14 From: newbladerunner4@linuxmail.org Subject: IN> We are a clearing house for targeted email lists, general lists and for advertising !!! We have lists of every geographic market in the US. We have attorneys, investors (over 600,000), stockbrokers, insurance executives, high net-worth individuals, CEO's, marketing executives, sales-people, business associations, accountants, opportunity seekers, farmers, government workers, dentists, veterinarians, entertainment, golfers, gamblers, sports enthusiasts, fitness & health freaks, body-builders, just women, women's organizations, parents, , many many more... We have large numbers of domain lists like AT&T, AOL, COMPUSERVE, EARTHLINK, MCI, Sprintmail and many free services like Rocketmail, Hotmail, Juno, and many, many more. All Our addresses have been run thru the Global remove list, They are very clean and up to date. 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Ordering Just Call US @ (800) 242-0363 EXT. 2427 Opt in Option: Get on Our Opt in List, and receive only one email a day from Us and Receive access to free programs and many other goodies for remaining on the list for 90 days ! Receive a listing of many freebie sites including one that gives You 15,000 free items like free t-shirts, caps, free film and 14,997 other nifty items absolutely free of charge. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:05:16 From: newbladerunner2@linuxmail.org Subject: IN> We are a clearing house for targeted email lists, general lists and for advertising !! We have lists of every geographic market in the US. We have attorneys, investors (over 600,000), stockbrokers, insurance executives, high net-worth individuals, CEO's, marketing executives, sales-people, business associations, accountants, opportunity seekers, farmers, government workers, dentists, veterinarians, entertainment, golfers, gamblers, sports enthusiasts, fitness & health freaks, body-builders, just women, women's organizations, parents, , many many more... We have large numbers of domain lists like AT&T, AOL, COMPUSERVE, EARTHLINK, MCI, Sprintmail and many free services like Rocketmail, Hotmail, Juno, and many, many more. All Our addresses have been run thru the Global remove list, They are very clean and up to date. WANT US TO JUST MAIL FOR YOU? _________________________________________________________________ We Can Mail For You Now, while these prices last !!! *First time customer Special !!! *Advertise to 250,000 people for $499 SALE $299.00 *Advertise to 1 Million people for $999 SALE $699.00 sale *Advertise to 2 Million people for $1499 SALE $999 (plus 20,000 targeted FREE) *Advertise to 5 Million people for $2999 SALE $1999 (plus 50,000 targeted FREE) *Advertise to 10 Million people for $4999 SALE $2999.00 ( the Blast ) (plus 75,000 targeted FREE) *Advertise to 25 Million people for $9999 SALE $4999.00 ( the Big Blast ) (plus 100,000 targeted FREE) Targeted Mailing is possible at a rate of $299 per 25,000 (A $25 set up fee for all mailings under a million) WANT TO DO IT YOURSELF _________________________________________________________________ 2 Million eMail Address + FREE Bulk Mailer........... $199.00 5 Million eMail Address + FREE Bulk Mailers.......... $399.00 15 Million eMail Address + FREE Bulk Mailer........... $499.00 (very fresh) (TARGETED OR REGIONAL LIST PRICING PLEASE CALL(800) 242-0363 EXT. 2427 So if You or Your company are interested in advertising Your product or service, or if You just need a great deal more traffic at Your site, We can help. Ordering Just Call US @ (800) 242-0363 EXT. 2427 Opt in Option: Get on Our Opt in List, and receive only one email a day from Us and Receive access to free programs and many other goodies for remaining on the list for 90 days ! Receive a listing of many freebie sites including one that gives You 15,000 free items like free t-shirts, caps, free film and 14,997 other nifty items absolutely free of charge. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:34:14 EDT From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> And The Bands Played On In a message dated 6/12/99 12:09:14 PM, gantr@NKU.EDU writes: <> I was basing it on reading my bible out of order. God says that blood is power after Cain kills Able, thats where the entire idea of Cain being powerful comes from. It is the inacuracy the world of darkness is based on, and what was in my mind when I first say Cain suggested for the leader of humans in hell. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1258 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.