From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jun 27 12:34:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07712 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:34:17 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA26988 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:30:57 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:30:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199906271730.MAA26988@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1266 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, June 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1266 In this digest: RE: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> IN: New GM questions RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> Web Text Re: IN> IN: New GM questions Re: IN> IN: New GM questions RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? IN> A Literary Elohite Re: IN> A Literary Elohite IN> IN: New GM questions (Sorcerers and Saints) IN> IN: New GM questions (Celestial Frequency) IN> IN: New GM questions IN> IN: New GM questions (Songs of Form and NC: Acid) IN> Do relievers have to fledge? IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $25/month IN> RE: IN- RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> A Literary Elohite Re: IN> A Literary Elohite Re: IN> A Literary Elohite IN> Targetted Angels of Vengance Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> IN: New GM questions Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:55:52 -0500 From: "Acosta, Ben" Subject: RE: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Micheal Knight wrote >>So, what stops a reliever from fledging as a grigori? >>And if for some reason one did, what would everyone's reaction be? >I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that nothing, in theory, >does. In practice, though, with no actual Grigori in Heaven, it's >very probable that a lack of working models could stop it. So, it's possible a VERY old reliever who was around since before the Grigori became outcast, or an Earth assigned one who somehow gained one as an associate could fledge as one? Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:17:49 -0500 From: "Acosta, Ben" Subject: RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? Earl Wajenberg wrote: >We know that some celestial "races" are specially manufactured. >Only Lilith makes Lilim. Hmm. I wonder if an imp or gremlin could buy the chance to fledge as a Lilim from Lilith. If so, what would the cost be? Perhaps the same rate she charges her Free Lilim, a Gesea/3 for each Force she donates for the fledging process. Now if that is possible, how about a reliever lucky/unlucky enough to run into her buying a Force to fledge into a Bright Lilim. Imagine, a Lilim who had never experienced Hell and knew the ins and outs of Heaven. >Perhaps Grigori were likewise a "synthetic" choir, >specially created, never produced by fledging, and now "discontinued." Well, they were created by God after the Fall, just like the Malakim (Well, not exactly. I doubt any angels from the other Choirs suddenly became Grigori). Relievers can fledge into Malakim, so concievably they could fledge into Grigori. >(Of course, it might still be possible for a rogue Archangel to >make some new, unlicensed Grigori on the sly. Can you say "Eli"? I think we've found yet another theory on what Eli is doing with his downtime. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:35:26 -0700 From: graveyard@cstone.net (Graveyard Greg) Subject: Re: IN> IN: New GM questions >(7) Are the Malakim usable as player characters? I see the point of having >stats for Malakim, but that oath, will not suffer an evil to live, seems to >be a big damper on role-play Not really. Malakim don't have too kill the evil immediately, mind you. I had a friend play a Malakim, and it went very well! In fact, I dare say it some of the best fun I have ever had. Better than Deadlands... Graveyard Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:23:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? At 6:08 PM -0500 6/23/99, Acosta, Ben wrote: >Elizabeth wrote: > >> I suspect that if a reliever _does_ somehow manage to grow to 9 before >> it decides -- then it _decides_. Moment of truth, moment of choice. >All >> the themes of the Symphony spread out around, and one Will Be Chosen. > >So, what stops a reliever from fledging as a grigori? God? Common Sense? >And if for some reason one did, what would everyone's reaction be? Probably an immediate trial... And, if not Outcasting, then destruction. Grigori were, after all, proved to be untrustworthy. So Mercurian is more likely than Grig... (Maybe relievers never could fledge Grig. Maybe the Grigori were made as angels by God, and no Archangels made new ones...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:27:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Web Text At 8:03 AM -0500 6/24/99, Eeyore wrote: >I'm reading Fiat Justitia, [...] >I'm old fashioned; I hate trying to read anything of >length on-screen and want to print it off. [...] Does anyone know of a >procedure or software that does a decent job of translating HTML back to >text? Well, though it's the evil empire... The most recent versions of Micro$oft Word can translate from basic HTML to something that looks reasonable. With just a little tweaking, it would probably be nicely readable. You'd have to Save As Source. Or you can just save as text and presto, no HTML markup at all, use whatever your fave text editor is. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:36:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN: New GM questions At 7:20 AM -0700 6/24/99, Miles 2 Go wrote: >(1) I've bought many of the books, and I'm a little ticked off at the >ammount of material that is being just duplicated from book to book. For >example the rules for sorcery are repeated in Night Music and the copreal >player's Guide. Night Music is probably going to be eventually discontinued. (Or at least hacked apart and put back together again...) The Sorcery rules are also in the CPG, tidied and repaired and reworked to be much nicer than their initial appearence in _The Marches._ >What books are best and why? Does anyone have a website >(other than the IN official site) that reviews all the released material? www.rpg.net has reviews. There are several of IN books, which you'll want to go looking for in their By Game Company archives. >(2) How many celestials are running around anyway? GM call. (In the forthcoming GMG, it discusses the implications of numbers of celestials.) >(4) In a related question, how many angels are assigned to Earth as compared >to heaven. Ok, in Heaven and Hell we find out there are many (undocumented) >choirs that are mostly involved in heaven. What about the basic choirs? >Are they mostly on earth? 25%, 50%, 75%? Also GM call. (And shouldn't this be "(3)"? O:> ) Ditto 4-5. >(6) In "Fall of the Malakim" how can two demons take out every celestial in >LA? Ok, they have a large ammount of essence, but it still doesn't track. *wince* Let's not discuss FotM... Though 1000 Essence is a _lot_ of Essence. Power the Song of Thunder with it and then walk around snickering as you slit throats. >(7) Are the Malakim usable as player characters? Yes. (Check out the much-plugged Fiat Justitia game, which has two Malakim in it. Three, if you count the NPC. homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html ) >(8) In some initial playtesting I've done, the Copreal Song of Form at level >6 appears to be rather unballancing. Numinous Corpus Acid also seems a bit >too powerful. NC Acid has errata -- www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata . >So I guess >that's my biggest question. What are the pitfalls? What do you watch out >for? Kyriotates. Of Lightning. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:58:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN: New GM questions At 12:07 PM -0400 6/24/99, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Miles 2 Go wrote: >As to which books are best, here's my list: As a note, my personal favorite adventure was the one in the GM's pack, Feast of Blades. There's one smidge of errata, and a chance that the PCs will do something funky, so read through it first, of course. But it was quite fun. The GM's screen really really missed a bet, though, not having the resonance check digit tables there. First thing any IN GM with angel PCs should do is type in the resonance tables and print them out. (They fit nicely on a sheet of paper.) Just don't hand it out for free and all that stuff. >Don't count on mysteries to work well. Angels kick mysteries to death. Oh, yeah. Fear Seraphim of Judgment. One well-designed Seraph of Judgment is doing Truth all over the place. (You're going to want the GMG -- there's stuff in there, I believe, about limiting Seraphim. The closer you get to a Superior's plans, the fuzzier Truths get. Likewise, you can't get a Truth off of someone who Has No Possible Clue.) At 5:27 PM +0100 6/24/99, Sam Kington wrote: >Warning: there's a spoiler for FotM quite a way down. > >Miles 2 Go wrote: >* The IPG is pretty damn good; the APG is OK, but has problems (e.g. the >expanded resonance tables). I was looking at it for GURPS IN stuff, and discovered All New Heights of Loathing for it. Yeah, it's got good stuff as well, but there's just so much I hate... (Patience! I must think of second edition, and I mustn't give in... When the new printing comes, this book will be a memory too...) >* The Liber Servitorum, like the Castellorum, is mainly a font of good >ideas. Lift NPCs from it bodily, like the excellent Barachel, or mix and >match. It also has good ideas for running servants. (Barachel?) >[...] I went through all the Angelic resonances, and the >only ones that would have problems in detecting that would be Cherubim >and Kyriotates; the rest would see it as a matter of course. Ofanim? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:55:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? At 12:17 PM -0500 6/24/99, Acosta, Ben wrote: >Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >>We know that some celestial "races" are specially manufactured. >>Only Lilith makes Lilim. > >Hmm. I wonder if an imp or gremlin could buy the chance to fledge as a >Lilim from Lilith. If so, what would the cost be? Perhaps the same rate >she charges her Free Lilim, a Gesea/3 for each Force she donates for the >fledging process. I'd say that if Lilith took a demonling and made a Lilim from it, it's akin to the way Princes "make" humans into demons. They take the soul apart, and glue it onto the demon, creating a being with some iffy memories from its previous existance. So any demonling who asked to be a Lilim is essentially donating its Forces to Lilith to build a Lilim with. It won't fledge Lilim. It will be used as component Forces for a Lilim. The resulting Lilim may remember bits of being a demonling, but not really _personally_. (I.e., you can die and have your memories grafted onto someone else. Have fun.) >Now if that is possible, how about a reliever lucky/unlucky enough to run >into her buying a Force to fledge into a Bright Lilim. Imagine, a Lilim who >had never experienced Hell and knew the ins and outs of Heaven. In a totally funky speculation thing I and spouse were doing, we got four "Heaven-born" Brights. For suitable compensation, Lilith went to an appropriately shielded area of Heaven and took 8 Forces from the Archangel paying her, and made a Lilim (the 9th being one of hers, natch). They were then almost instantly redeemed by the AA. (Well, the Lightning one asked questions of Jean for a few hours before deciding that the objectively best choice was redemption...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:10:21 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? At 3:55 PM -0400 6/24/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 12:17 PM -0500 6/24/99, Acosta, Ben wrote: >In a totally funky speculation thing I and spouse were doing, we got >four "Heaven-born" Brights. For suitable compensation, Lilith went >to an appropriately shielded area of Heaven and took 8 Forces from the >Archangel paying her, and made a Lilim (the 9th being one of hers, natch). >They were then almost instantly redeemed by the AA. (Well, the Lightning >one asked questions of Jean for a few hours before deciding that the >objectively best choice was redemption...) Oh oh oh oh oh!!! This raises such a *cool* possibility! I'd never thought of Lilim who are 8 forces "directly" from a Superior, 9th from Lilith as taking on characteristics of that Superior before. It could broaden the personality types of Lilim out there something *fierce.* Well, except for Andre's Lilim. Let's be honest here. Heck, he's probably self-attuned himself to enjoy losing eight forces to Lilith to create Lilim.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:48:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? At 4:10 PM -0400 6/24/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 3:55 PM -0400 6/24/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 12:17 PM -0500 6/24/99, Acosta, Ben wrote: >>In a totally funky speculation thing I and spouse were doing, we got >>four "Heaven-born" Brights. For suitable compensation, Lilith went >>to an appropriately shielded area of Heaven and took 8 Forces from the >>Archangel paying her, and made a Lilim (the 9th being one of hers, natch). >>They were then almost instantly redeemed by the AA. (Well, the Lightning >>one asked questions of Jean for a few hours before deciding that the >>objectively best choice was redemption...) > >Oh oh oh oh oh!!! This raises such a *cool* possibility! I'd never >thought of Lilim who are 8 forces "directly" from a Superior, 9th >from Lilith as taking on characteristics of that Superior before. It >could broaden the personality types of Lilim out there something >*fierce.* Well, part of the notion that way was that the Lilim created would be more redeemable in the first place, since they'd be made from "pure" Forces, not demonically-twisted ones. I think there's a comment in the IPG, though, about making Lilim from a Superior's Forces so that the resulting Daughter would be more inclined to bind to that Superior. But I have generally, IMC kinda thing, figured that the sources of the Lilim's Forces could indicate personality inclinations. (And then there's the Heaven-born, Bright Blade of the Moon, who resulted from Yves using Divine Logic on Laurence to take advantage of Lilith offering (in jest, but she was too proud to back down) to give him a Bright for free. Totally non-canon, of course. But it amused.) >Well, except for Andre's Lilim. Let's be honest here. Heck, he's >probably self-attuned himself to enjoy losing eight forces to Lilith >to create Lilim.... Oh, definitely. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:44:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> A Literary Elohite I'm presently listening to a taped reading of "Cold Comfort Farm," by Stella Gibbons, as a drive my commute. First of all, it's a very funny story, in almost any incarnation you find it. But it also occurs to me that the heroine, Flora, is a good model for an Elohite personality. Probably an Elohite of Destiny. Flora is an enormously practical and decisive young woman -- in violent contrast to the emotion-wallowing characters around her. She sweeps in and, with deadly practicality, rearranges people's lives into the most sensible and agreeable new forms. She has her own emotions, but like a true Elohite, never allows them to affect her judgement. I don't say all Elohim are like her, or should be, but she's one good model. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:42:20 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A Literary Elohite If you like the book, you should love the movie. It was a real joy to watch. *s* - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg >I'm presently listening to a taped reading of "Cold Comfort Farm," >by Stella Gibbons, as a drive my commute. First of all, it's >a very funny story, in almost any incarnation you find it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:30:32 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> IN: New GM questions (Sorcerers and Saints) >>>I do wholeheartedly recommend the three Players' Guides and the first three books of the Revelations Cycle. And one thing to keep in mind about the repetition of material between Night Music and the CPG is that in Night Music, the writeups on Sorcery and Saints were (In My Opinion) included for GMs to create Sorceror or Saint NPCs, while the rules in the CPG are designed for playing them as PCs.<<< More importantly, the rules for sorcery (and to a lesser extent Saints) were *broken* in Night Music. Their reappearance in the CPG is not just repetition, it's a wholesale rewrite. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:33:05 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> IN: New GM questions (Celestial Frequency) >>>(2) How many celestials are running around anyway? The introductory story makes it sound like there are only four infernals in a city, who are crossed by two angels, and toss in two soldiers. Not many, which seems to track with some of the material. However, then you find lines like Blandine assigns an angel to watch over the dreams of every artist - say what? I'm leaning toward one celestial (or soldier) per 100,000 population, but does that work?<<< I don't think there is a canon answer, though I'd say it seems to be somewhere between 1 per 10,000 humans and 1 per 100,000, depending on the venue. This will be addressed in the upcoming Game Master's Guide (he says significantly). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:35:05 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> IN: New GM questions >>>(6) In "Fall of the Malakim" how can two demons take out every celestial in LA? Ok, they have a large ammount of essence, but it still doesn't track.<<< As others have pointed out, FotM is "broken." I'm still wondering how a 4-Force Construct (even with 55 Essence) poses a threat to a group of celestials. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:39:10 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> IN: New GM questions (Songs of Form and NC: Acid) >>> In some initial playtesting I've done, the Copreal Song of Form at level 6 appears to be rather unballancing.<<< If you think it's too powerful, you can always say it only gives Protection equal to *half* the level of the Song. >>>Numinous Corpus Acid also seems a bit too powerful.<<< It's been errata'd. (And here's where I plug the Liber Canticorum, your ultimate resource for Songs. ;)) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:44:01 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Do relievers have to fledge? >>>GM decision -- I'd generally play it that as the reliever grows, it begins to naturally identify with one Choir or another. (Indeed, in my personal games and fiction, relievers start to manifest elements of their chosen Choir, so you can get mini-Seraphim, or cub-Cherub-relievers, or little swarmlet Kyrios, or a large reliever with black butterfly wings and a sword -- but if you look at one, it's patently a _reliever_.)<<< I'd also say that what Choir attunements it takes have a major influence on its eventual Choir. If a reliever gains the Seraph Choir Attunement, it's probably going to become a Seraph. (I also say that when angels acquire the Choir Attunements of other Choirs, it tends to give them a little more of that Choir's perspective and attitude....so a Seraph with a Malakite Choir Attunement tends to be more militant and honor-bound, a Malakite with the Seraph Choir Attunement tends to be more honest and more concerned with the truth, etc.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:50:23 PDT From: Miles 2 Go Subject: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) >In a totally funky speculation thing I and spouse were doing, we got >four "Heaven-born" Brights. For suitable compensation, Lilith went >to an appropriately shielded area of Heaven and took 8 Forces from >the >Archangel paying her, and made a Lilim (the 9th being one of >hers, natch). >They were then almost instantly redeemed by the AA. (Well, the >Lightning >one asked questions of Jean for a few hours before >deciding that >theobjectively best choice was redemption...) Um, I realize that Bright Lilim are rare, but wouldn't it be easier to have a Superior grab two of them and "suggest" they become parents. Since children fledge in their parents choir, you'd get a Bright Lilim without having to pay Lilith. Considering Lilith's rates for such an extraordinary service, I'd think the effort would be worth it. As a side note thanks to all those who are replying on the help for a new GM topic. I am taking extensive notes, and I'll respond when I have more questions. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:17:46 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) At 7:50 PM -0700 6/24/99, Miles 2 Go wrote: >>In a totally funky speculation thing I and spouse were doing, we got >>four "Heaven-born" Brights. For suitable compensation, Lilith went >>to an appropriately shielded area of Heaven and took 8 Forces >>from >the Archangel paying her, and made a Lilim (the 9th being one >>of >hers, natch). >>They were then almost instantly redeemed by the AA. (Well, >>the >Lightning one asked questions of Jean for a few hours >>before >deciding that theobjectively best choice was redemption...) > >Um, I realize that Bright Lilim are rare, but wouldn't it be easier >to have a Superior grab two of them and "suggest" they become >parents. Since children fledge in their parents choir, you'd get a >Bright Lilim without having to pay Lilith. I personally would Rule that the Superior who has to assist in such parenting would either have to be Lilith or would fail at the process. Said Superior wouldn't "get" how to make a Lilim, and therefore couldn't help the prospective parents combine and give new life. Or, alternately, it could succeed... and one of the two Bright Lilim would disintergate into component forces in the process, the Lilith-Force being taken from her and put into the child. So, you end up with a brand new Bright Lilim, at the cost of an experienced one. Unwise. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 99 23:55:32 EST From: LongDistance@recyclermail.com Subject: IN> UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $25/month IMAGINE! UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $25/month flat rate! We're in a pre launch! It was bound to happen... there is a new telephone company offering UNLIMITED US Domestic Long Distance Calling for a flat rate of $25 per month... no computer required... phone to phone... 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Imagine being able to make UNLIMITED Long Distance calls for only $25 a month? :::::::::::::»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«::::::::::::: Making Dreams Come True! :::::::::::::»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«::::::::::::: This "Hot", new, technology will also allow you to (realistically) make $2-5,000 in less than 30 days part-time! _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ If you have received this message in error, please email mailto:No-Man@bigfoot.com with the word remove in the subject. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:24:39 PDT From: Micheal Knight Subject: IN> RE: IN- RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? >>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that nothing, in theory, >>does. In practice, though, with no actual Grigori in Heaven, it's >>very probable that a lack of working models could stop it. >So, it's possible a VERY old reliever who was around since before the >Grigori became outcast, or an Earth assigned one who somehow gained one as >an associate could fledge as one? I'd tend to agree that that's possible, yes. Micheal (Not the Archangel!) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:01:44 -0500 From: "Dan and Dave Scheppard" Subject: Re: IN> A Literary Elohite > I'm presently listening to a taped reading of "Cold Comfort Farm," > by Stella Gibbons, as a drive my commute. First of all, it's > a very funny story, in almost any incarnation you find it. > But it also occurs to me that the heroine, Flora, is a good model > for an Elohite personality. Probably an Elohite of Destiny. > > Flora is an enormously practical and decisive young woman -- > in violent contrast to the emotion-wallowing characters around her. > She sweeps in and, with deadly practicality, rearranges people's > lives into the most sensible and agreeable new forms. She has > her own emotions, but like a true Elohite, never allows them to > affect her judgement. I don't say all Elohim are like her, or > should be, but she's one good model. > > Earl I haven't read the book, but I saw the movie, and I have to agree completely. I think she would be a good example of an Elohite that actually had a degree of emotions (actually, a human degree of emotions) but still wouldn't acquire too much dissonance. Good one : ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:17:47 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A Literary Elohite Prodigal wrote: > > If you like the book, you should love the movie. It was a real joy > to watch. We own a video of the movie, which is why I referred to the story's various incarnations. There have been at least two different movies of it, I think. And it would make a good stage play, too. Oh, and another Elohitish thing about the heroine, Flora -- not only does she run relentlessly on good judgement, she always knows exactly what makes the other characters tick, just as if she had the Elohite resonnance. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:23:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A Literary Elohite Dan or Dave Scheppard wrote: > I haven't read the book, but I saw the movie, and I have to agree > completely. I think she would be a good example of an Elohite that > actually had a degree of emotions (actually, a human degree of > emotions) but still wouldn't acquire too much dissonance. The book, I assure you, is a fast read and at least as much fun as the movie. (No movie script can be much longer than a short story.) I believe it's now officially pointed out that Elohites can have emotions; they just can't let those emotions cloud their judgement. Which, I think, makes them one of the most intrisically virtuous choirs. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:36:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Targetted Angels of Vengance People often complain that Malakim are too violent for many plots. While there are many and interesting ways to solve that, I came up with an alternate way of handling "avenging angels." It could be used as the basis for a minor choir -- say, a specialty of Gabriel's - -- or regarded as a specialized Malakite, or a Mercurian with an exception, or a sort of anti-Cherub. Cherubim suffer if their attuned is harmed. These Avenging Angels suffer if they harm anything BUT their attuned. That is, they are sent after something in particular, and are not supposed to hurt anything else. The attuned can be a particular individual ("the Impudite Mr. Leech," "the person who murdered this guy"), or a defined class ("demons," or "all the demons in this city"), or even an inanimate object ("this infernal device of Vapula's"). The Avenging Angel can tell that the target is destroyed because the atunement ends, and they can feel that. They can carry multiple atunements. And they DON'T create Disturbance when they beat on their targets. Comments? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:10:33 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? At 12:27 AM -0700 6/24/99, Micheal Knight wrote: >>So, what stops a reliever from fledging as a grigori? >>And if for some reason one did, what would everyone's reaction be? > >I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that nothing, in theory, >does. In practice, though, with no actual Grigori in Heaven, it's >very probable that a lack of working models could stop it. > >But man, if one did, panic time. > >Micheal > Or perhaps the Grigori were never actually created in Heaven, but on Earth as celestial beings rooted on Earth with ties to Heaven. There seems to be no infernal analouge as to them as their is to every other Choir save the incorruptible Malakim. (one might argue the Lilim being the closest to an opposite but we won't go there now :) And they did not exist in Heaven before the coming of Man and the abrupt ending of the Eden experiment. Perhaps the Grigori were created with a Symphonic tie that was the closest in a different way, one that shares Humanity's unique bond with the Symphony, one that both made them vulnerable to the fall of said Choir, yet reserved for them a special place within it alongside Humanity, perhaps only cut off from Heaven could they truly assume their place as Watchers. My take on it is that a fledging reliever will bond with a angelic chord that harmonises with its own inner nature, either that of the major bands or one of the minor ones such as Blandine's special servants or one of the Celestial Choirs. However with the banishment of the Grigori, that chord is now totally absent from Heaven, and such a choice is not only not an option but would not occur to its simple mind. And that's simple compared to the average angel. Many on this list seem to think of celestials humanlike minds with halos or horns, they really are on the majority, simpletons of a sort, more varying forms of idiot-savants. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:05:11 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> IN: New GM questions On Thu, Jun 24, 1999 at 05:27:00PM +0100, Sam Kington wrote: > * The IPG is pretty damn good; the APG is OK, but has problems (e.g. the > expanded resonance tables). I'd like to register my dissent again. The APG, in my opinion, is mostly better than the IPG. There wasn't much in the IPG that really grabbed me. > My favourite was the bit where an entire party of Celestials is supposed > to witness the death of the holiest man on Earth, after having spent > time with him and not realised he was exceptionally, almost > supernaturally holy. (They're supposed to witness him in prayer at the > Mosque, as well.) I went through all the Angelic resonances, and the > only ones that would have problems in detecting that would be Cherubim > and Kyriotates; the rest would see it as a matter of course. > Have you ever played a Seraph? You can't just look at people and find things out. I'm not convinced an Elohite or Mercurian would do much better, either, even with CD6. > As for Corp Form - well, OK, you're invulnerable. For a while (at most > 36 minutes). Someone turns Corp Form on, you go away, wait, come back > when it wears off. Repeat until target is out of Essence. > There are some very high-damage combos out there, too. It balances, kind of. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "... the expression "secret society" means an association, society, or other body the members of which are required by the regulations thereof to take or enter into, or do in fact take or enter into an oath, affirmation, declaration or agreement not to disclose the proceedings or some part of the proceedings of the association, society, or body." Offences Against the State Act, 1939, Appendix A, Section 3.2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:43:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) At 7:50 PM -0700 6/24/99, Miles 2 Go wrote: >>In a totally funky speculation thing I and spouse were doing, we got >>four "Heaven-born" Brights. [...] > >Um, I realize that Bright Lilim are rare, but wouldn't it be easier to have >a Superior grab two of them and "suggest" they become parents. Since >children fledge in their parents choir, you'd get a Bright Lilim without >having to pay Lilith. Lilim are spayed, so it doesn't work. You get a reliever. (This _should_ be in the APG (though I wouldn't be surprised it the wrong answer were, frankly), and the IPG.) Only Lilith Can Make Lilim. If you can even _find_ two in Heaven at any one time. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:30:57 +0200 From: Alex van Niel Subject: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine Hi EDG, As I was very pleased SOMEONE read my question, I was also disappointed, the question was misunderstood :(. I KNOW that when damage is negative, then no damage is done... What I asked however was on a slightly different level.. I`ll try and explain it a bit more detailed: A very Strengthy player of mine just got into a fight with a human and he decided to punch the human`s lights out. So, he threw a d666 and succeeded. Then we looked at his check digit: 1 ... Now, isn`t it weird that, when you kick someone in the face or punch something out of proportion that SOME damage should be done? I mean, he had a 1 on his check, -3 for the power of the punch, and so he did -2 damage = NO damage... So, in order for him to DO some damage, he has to throw at least a 4 on his check before he can do some damage... Although a game system isn`t supposed to mimic realism, this effect however does have a VERY illogical outcome although the chance he hits is higher then normal, he still has a VERY high chance the player doesn`t do any damage... Is there something I forgot in calculating which would heighten the player`s chances of doing some damage or is there any errata I missed regarding to damage in combat? Or is there ANYONE who has a sane sollution for me? Please? :) Grtz, Alex van Niel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:45:12 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Alex van Niel wrote: > Although a game system isn`t supposed to mimic realism, this effect > however does have a VERY illogical outcome although the chance he > hits is higher then normal, he still has a VERY high chance the player > doesn`t do any damage... Is there something I forgot in calculating which > would heighten the player`s chances of doing some damage or is there any > errata I missed regarding to damage in combat? Or is there ANYONE who has a > sane sollution for me? Please? :) I don't know about errata. I just add 3 to the Power of all weapons and attacks in the game. It seems to work out pretty well. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:29:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine At 6:30 PM +0200 6/25/99, Alex van Niel wrote: >[...]So, in order for him to >DO some damage, he has to throw at least a 4 on his check before he can do >some damage... Although a game system isn`t supposed to mimic realism, this >effect however does have a VERY illogical outcome although the chance he >hits is higher then normal, he still has a VERY high chance the player >doesn`t do any damage... Is there something I forgot in calculating which >would heighten the player`s chances of doing some damage or is there any >errata I missed regarding to damage in combat? Okay, base Fighting is, according to Errata, Corporeal Forces + Strength + Fighting skill. If this doesn't push the target number above 12, then you just don't have a combat monster. (When the target number is above 12, everthing above 12 is added to the check digit. [*]) Otherwise, get Large Weapons skill and a sword. I wouldn't be surprised if the -2 were supposed to model fistfights which take several minutes on the silver screen and leave the hero staggering and bruised, but not very _damaged_... (So even if there's 0 damage, give impressive bruises and minor cuts and abrasions...) ([*] This is why a well-designed Seraph of Judgment is screamingly frightening if you want to conceal the truth. 5 Celestial Forces, Will 10/Per 10. This configuration has the added benefit of being hell on Balseraphs. Hear that little hissy noise? That's Dominic snickering.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1266 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.