From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 30 19:33:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29600 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:33:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA02585 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:27:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:27:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199907010027.TAA02585@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1271 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, June 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1271 In this digest: Re: IN> Superiors Re: IN> Superiors Re: IN> Superiors Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Re: IN> Superiors Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? Re: IN> IN: New GM questions Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! IN> Superior Forces IN> Re: IN- Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1269 Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1269 Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! IN> First In Nomine comic strip? IN> Gregori Superior (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:02:53 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Superiors Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And if you get a vessel that's been modified for flight, then it could > fly. Start with hollow bones (represent this with fewer hit points), > an altered body-shape for better balance and streamlining... > > And remember that though this shape would mimic a celestial form, it > will still be made out of flesh and blood and bone, not ineffable spirit- > stuff. It will be subject to gravity, extremes of heat and cold (okay, > humans collapse before vessels, but still), and any other hazards of life > on Earth. It may be closer to a true form than a human or animal vessel, > but it's not necessarily that comforting compared to all the problems. And lest we forget, the only animal that flew and had a more-or-less human sized body had a wingspan around FIFTY feet. That'd be Q. northopri, a pterosaur. I'd say having a truly Symphony friendly flight-capable body around human sized would be -shockingly- inconvenient. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:07:05 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Superiors On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Steel Angel wrote: > Yves Dorval wrote: > > I wonder how many Forces a typical superior has... If you go by the book, > > the maximum amount of forces a celestial can possess is 18 Forces (12 in all > > their attributes). Is being a superior just on the other side of that (19, > > 20+) or in a scale that cannot be measured (200-300) ?? > Considering that the books say more or less that Superiors are almost a > different type of being than run of the mill Celestials (by virtue of > being tied into a -major- hunk of the Symphony) if you -have- to give > them Forces, I'd be more inclined to have them at the 50-300 range (50 > for a relatively weak one, 300 for oh say...Michael) [snip] heh, this figures into some backstory i'm working on for an In Nomine game if it ever gets off the ground: Michael, being the Archangel of War, gains both Essence and Forces for every demon slain by angels or soldiers. there aren't any mechanics, per se, but the greater population of Hell refers to Michael not by name, not by title, not even by insults (the way Laurence, Dominic, and others are)--instead, he's referred to by one, always whispered sobriquet: "the Destroyer." this naturally confuses some demons ("'The Destroyer'? That'd be Beliel, right?"), but Baal is hip to the term, and anyone caught using it in his principality is summarily tried and Force-stripped for "demonalizing the war effort." -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:08:13 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Superiors BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > > Of course, there's always the notion that Saminga is actually quite > brilliant, and is only feigning stupidity while he enacts his Amazing Master > Plan to create Zombi Earth that will catch every Superior on both side > totally flat-footed. > Nahhhhh! Then there's that great image from the 'Bright Victory' campaign idea of Saminga in Abbadon, looking up at the sky going "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!" He just strikes me as an old serial arch-villain who actually follows the Evil Overlord rules. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:10:48 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Hilary Hayes wrote: > > A word such as control seems to fit rather well, and would certainly be > approved of by more than one Archangel. Control is in many ways the > opposition to freedom and would bind such Angels very closely to the > heavenly perception of the symphony. > Better yet, try the Word of Loyalty. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 04:18:56 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Superiors In a message dated 6/30/99 2:07:01 AM Central Daylight Time, steelangel@cruzers.com writes: << > > Of course, there's always the notion that Saminga is actually quite > brilliant, and is only feigning stupidity while he enacts his Amazing Master > Plan to create Zombi Earth that will catch every Superior on both side > totally flat-footed. > Nahhhhh! Then there's that great image from the 'Bright Victory' campaign idea of Saminga in Abbadon, looking up at the sky going "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!" He just strikes me as an old serial arch-villain who actually follows the Evil Overlord rules. - Abracax: Shedite of Riots >> Yeah, that was mine, too. Thanks. What can I say? I love Saminga! I have an Impudite of Death character ready if anyone around here ever runs a demon game. He's a combat monster, a necrophiliac, and he has a vampire servant who's his perfect girl. Beautiful, obedient, stupid, and dead. They're cruising around the country like a couple of Natural Born Killers. I know what you all are saying. "What a munchkin!" Well, my angel character is a Mercurian of Creation and he's the nicest guy in the world. I just wanna see how the other half lives. :) The problem I have with Zombi Earth is: What are these Zombis gonna feed on? Most Zombis have a Need for something. Usually harvested from a less than willing human body. Once everyone on Earth is Zombified, where's the food coming from? Saminga, even as dumb as he is, is still the leading expert on the undead. He has to realize this problem. Is he working on it? My Impudite would be interested in knowing, because he sits around all day fantasizing about the wonderful dream of Zombi Earth. Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:46:39 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fighting in Inomine On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Eeyore wrote: > You'd also have to figure out a way to change the psychology of all of the > characters such that they become interested in saving their ass. Make them > run away. Have them surrender. Cower a lot. And don't forget to panic. ...which would make a really buff Malakite an even more terrifying opponent. He doesn't lose his cool, he can charge straight into automatic weapons fire without going down, he can stand calmly in the middle of a firefight, picking off exactly the guy he wants... :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! We don't get extra credit for how much suffering we endure. The only score worth keeping is how little suffering we inflict and how much we relieve. - Ghost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 04:49:01 -0500 From: "Acosta, Ben" Subject: IN> RE: IN- Do relievers have to fledge? On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Eddie wrote: > My question is why can't one fledge as a Grigori, why should they have to > suffer from someone else's mistakes? > What ever happened to, to forgive is Divine. It was not them but Grigori > 1000s of years ago that caused the problem. > You can have redeemed just about anything. Why no Grigori? This gives me an interesting idea for a story seed: After millenia of their absence from Heaven, for some reason a reliever fledges into a Grigori. After a tumultuous hearing in the Seraphim Council in reaction to this unprecedented event it is ruled that the new angel in question be put under probation. Where do the PC's come in? It's their job to work with him and help evaluate how he does. Their lives become much more interesting as Triads pop in "just to check", servitors of various Superiors give recruitment pitches to the new angel, demons who find out try to give their recruitment pitches, and the Grigori still left watch and wait. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:57:52 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> IN: New GM questions Uncle Wolf wrote: [snip] > So why do you suppose that one of the holiest men on earth would be found > in a church? Because the scenario says so. (It's, IIRC, either the second or the third trumpet in TFT) Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:03:53 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) for the angels, a kyriotate would have an easier time relating to a human than, say, and elohite or a malakite. as for demons, demons are selfish, something which brings them overall closer to humanity. with the demons the "divinity" scale doesn't quite work, it tends to function on a completely different level. for example: the most divine, the Seraphim, have some serious problems when interacting with humanity. now a Balseraph would have no problems whatsoever. - - Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" nallix@bellsouth.net ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -"ACF", Stabbing Westward - -----Original Message----- From: Steel Angel To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 1:57 AM Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) > > >Amo Nympham wrote: > >> for me, more divine and less divine links into how distant the angel or >> demon is from humanity, and how easy a time it will have interacting with >> it. > >"How distant" is just as vague as "more/less divine". And are you saying >Shedim have an easy time interacting with humans? Not without stolen memories >they don't. > >- Abracax: Shedite of Riots > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:26:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Making Brights (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) Amo Nympham wrote: > > for the angels, a kyriotate would have an easier time relating to a > human than, say, and elohite or a malakite. as for demons, demons > are selfish, something which brings them overall closer to humanity. > with the demons the "divinity" scale doesn't quite work, it tends to > function on a completely different level. for example: the most > divine, the Seraphim, have some serious problems when interacting > with humanity. now a Balseraph would have no problems whatsoever. That's a pretty dark view of humanity! If humans and demons have selfishness in common, humans and angels have selflessness in common; humanity encompasses both, after all. There are different ways of measuring "closeness" to humanity, and I think they are being confused in this thread. A Balseraph, for instance, is defined as delusional, as is a Habbalite. They may be "close" to humanity in that they have no trouble manipulating us, but they aren't necessarily "close" in terms of understanding humanity. Kyriotates are very unhumanlike in themselves, but an experienced one will have been in so many human heads, and seen them up close for so long, and literally walked in their shoes, that it might understand humans very, very well and be close to them in that sense. Mercurians' resonnance helps them be close to humans in terms of understanding -- as does their freedom to lie and be fooled, be dishonorable and in doubts about others' honor, be non-objective and unaware of other's emotions. Those dissonance and resonnance conditions put a barrier between Seraphim, Malakim, and Elohim, and humanity. Cherubum and Ophanim are separated from humanity by their strong choir obsessions. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:19:41 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) At 3:22 PM -0400 6/29/99, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: \ > I think that some angels in this situation would take vessels that resemble >their celestial form. Though I don't know how functional they'd be. Would a >Seraph, Malakite, or Mercurian vessel be able to fly without the Corporeal >Song of Motion or Numinous Corpus: Wings to help? I have trouble picturing an >Ofanite in the real world. A Kyrio would just be weird. Would they still get >their "freak-out" ability against humans? The wings wouldn't help, they're too small to lift a body as massive as a human. It's the Song of Wings that actuallly lifts you the Wings themselves are mainly decoration, or channels to funnel the power. > Would Blandine or Beleth allow such vessels at all, given their dissonance >conditions? They'd be the ones to probably freak out the most about the War going public. > Something to think about, anyway. I'm still trying to figure out what an >Archangel of the Media would be like. :) > It'd be the one pushing for subscriptions to PBS and National Public Radio? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:02:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! Actually, I'd think "blowing the lid off" would be one hell\\\\ er, one heck of a boost for Lithroy, Archangel of Revelation, and an equally BAD thing for the Demon Prince of Sercets, whatever its name is. It would also be sort of like doing an In Nomine-Shadowrun crossover, with the Blowing of the Lid being the equivalent to the Shadowrun Ghostdance, introducing the fantasy element to the modern world. Or equivalent to GURPS Technomagic. Let's see... It might be a little like the current situation with intelligence agencies. I mean, we know they're out there, but we don't expect to see a spy on the streets, not so as to know they're spies. Likewise with celestials after the Blow. (This is, in fact, the way many of us who really believe in angels feel about them. We know they're there, but we don't expect encounters.) On the other hand, some certain few high officials connected to the intelligence community show up on TV and before congress and the like. Likewise, once the cover is blown, there might be a few "spokes-spirits" who show up on TV for interviews and appear (*poof!*) before various official bodies. I'm thinking interviews at the Vatican, here, and before the World Council of Churches, and audiences with the Dalai Lama, etc. Vampires and mummies might come out of the closet some; Grigori would not. Nybbas would CERTAINLY have a field day, handling Hell's PR to Earth. Belial, Beleth, and the like, would shift gears into more openly terrorist tactics. Blandine and Gabriel would have to get less subtle (Yeah, I know -- Gabriel? Subtle?) in response. If openness gains momentum, if secrecy gets less and less useful or possible, you get something that looks like a supers game, with Songs and resonnances instead of superpowers. You might also be escalating rapidly toward Armageddon. People would start lining up, volunteering to become Soldiers of God or Hell. And there might be recruiting offices... Ethereal reaction might be very confused, at least at first. But it'd be a strong reaction, because all of a sudden they're getting a lot more Essence from BELIEF. I mean, if there are angels and devils, why not fays? Why not the Old Gods? Heck, Ethereals might find themselves getting dragged to Earth because enough people are now expecting them to put in an appearance. It's a gaudy little premise. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:39:59 +0100 From: Ulf Houe Subject: IN> Superior Forces Concerning the discussion about superior forces you might want to check this article out: http://innom.ulfh.dk/pages/resources/houselaw/words.html and this one's probably good too: http://innom.ulfh.dk/pages/resources/houselaw/force2.html Sorry to bother you... Iacta est alea, Ulf Houe. ulf@ulfh.dk Http://www.ulfh.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:43:18 PDT From: Miles 2 Go Subject: IN> Re: IN- Blow the Lid Off! (was Superiors) > That reminds me of a campaign idea I had. It starts off like a >regular campaign, except that fairly early on, the lid gets >blown off the whole thing and the War becomes common knowledge >among the public. I haven't fleshed out the details yet. I'm >considering it be a rather maverick plan by Nybbas. He >figures he can use the panic and paranoia created to bring >the general population over to his side. > Heaven would freak of course. They'd have to do something fast, >so I'm thinking they'd appoint an Archangel of the Media (or a >similar Word) to try and compete against Nybbas. I imagine that >Nybbas' plan would work in part though not quite as well as he >expected. People don't want to go to Hell, especially now that >they've been given a little proof. I just came up with this >because I like the silly idea of angels being interviewed on TV. >Or maybe throwing chairs at a demon on Jerry Springer. > "Today in our studio we have the Balseraph of Fate called >John Stank and the Malakite of War named..." > BOOM! SMASH!!! "ARRRGGH" If you want one take on what such a world would be like consider Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series. The first book On a Pale Horse being the only one I really consider worth reading. In that universe, Hell openly advertises in the media. You get billboards, commercials, etc. advertising how cool Hell is, and how stuffy Heaven is. Another thing you'd want to add is a tremendous increase in the number of sorcerors. Hell becomes less scary if humans _think_ they have power to control demons. Kobal is probably rolling in the asiles as Demonology101 becomes a course offering at local community colleges. Standard disclaimer for Peirs Anthony, read a series until you think its just to awful, then put it down. It will only get worse as it goes on. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:55:17 -0400 From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com (by way of Elizabeth McCoy) Subject: Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... This bounced. Hopefully this resending will make it work... - ------------------------ .X-Sender: neel@emerald.cswv.com .Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:25:59 -0400 .To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com .From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) .Subject: Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... Kris Overstreet wrote: >> >> So as you can see, everything they asked for is in the spirit of it all >>and only there to shield them from lawsuits, which a company providing free >>web space shouldn't have to worry about. > >It also does the following: > >(1) Makes any content unsaleable (can't sign a contract without them to >publish the work) Nope. You have given them a license to use the work, not actual ownership rights to the text itself. It's possible that some publishers who demand exclusive publication rights will be unwilling to deal with you, but that's something you've /already/ tossed out with putting it up on a freely- accessible web site. But your really truly don't have to bring Yahoo into any contract negotations, honest. >(2) Prohibits your moving the content to another server (they are part >owners of the rights) No, you have given them a *license* to the material. For example, I have written a text-editing mode for the Emacs text editor under a license that lets anyone do basically anything they want with the source code. This doesn't mean that I've transferred the copyrights, or put it into the public domain, or anything like that -- it just means that I am not not restricting other people from modifying or redistributing the source as part of the terms of receiving a copy from me. If I let you borrow my car to drive to a concert, it doesn't make you part- owner of the car. (The difference with e-texts is that I can let you borrow an e-text and still be able to use it myself.) >(3) They can do just about anything they like with the work (no moral right >of artistic control). I don't see any moral imperative there. A copyright is a government- granted monopoly, not a property right, and the justification for it is pragmatic rather than ethical. >All in all, this is so patently unfair to the site creator that it deserves >to be shouted from the highest towers: YAHOO ARE THIEVES. Not thieves, because they aren't changing the terms of service retroactively. You simply can't add new stuff unless you accept the new terms of service; if you don't like it, you can stop using their server. This isn't even bad manners, since the service is free. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:23:14 +0200 From: Alex van Niel Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1269 >At 4:50 PM +0200 6/28/99, Alex van Niel wrote: >>Hi All who reacted on my question. >>Thanks a lot for the suggestions.. >>If the "above 12 is added to check digit" is somewhere in the book or in >>the errata (or players guides which I don`t have yet :( ) then I must have >>missed it but it sounds the best sollution to my problem. Thanks >Elizabeth.... >Main book, page 39, first column, under "Automatic Success." (Not under >Skills, on p. 45, nor even a reference, drat it.) The example it uses is >Fighting, even. (Though erronious -- CorForces should be being added too!) Mmmm, ok, I feel pretty stupid now... I have read over it a million times and must say I never really paid much attention to it ... Er.. ok, thanks for this. Althoguh a hint in the book somewhere else would have helped though :) I understand there is going to be a new edition out?? Is that true and if so, when?? ____________________________ .---------/Virus Help Team Netherlands/ __|____ __/ __ _ ___________ _______/ \ kd! \/ / / / | \ / / | \ / _// _// | |\_____________/_____/____/ | | Alex van Niel | | Programmer of VirusCheckerII | |pinkie@dds.nl 39:150/100.9| `------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:45:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Not-Quite-Topic: A potential copyright problem... At 5:06 PM -0700 6/29/99, Sean McCarthy wrote: [stuff about how Yahoo _intends_ to protect themselves when they do stuff which is perfectly understandable] > Of course ... It's so wide as to completely shield them from >lawsuit...even if they did something malicious. But I'll let someone else >argue that side...I'm assuming it's an innocent mistake. Not because I feel >it's totally innocent, but because I feel it's not an Evil Conspiracy. And >someone has to present the opposing view. Innocent mistake or not -- SJ Games does not agree that Yahoo/Geocities can create derivative works (*) from In Nomine (or GURPS) material, therefore, with the current overbroad wording, anything put up there that had GURPS or IN on it... Can't be. O:> I don't think Yahoo's stuff is malicious either, actually. I think it's _stupid_ and open to abuse! Their lawyers need to be told to write something that protects intellectual property... (I mean, if it had a clause in it that said, "As needed for technical reasons, to provide hosting, display a site-link to increase traffic, or repair HTML (or other) codes to ensure proper display" -- that would be something different.) * "Derivative works" means, in publisher-ese, things like writing a book with the same characters as someone else's book (E.g., Sherlock Holmes stories), or (for gaming companies) writing adventures and otherwise abusing trademark! Naturally, a gaming company can't allow that to happen! (And IN particularly can't allow it, because it's not just SJ Game's -- it's _licensed_ from Croc for money.) So, under the wording, if there's an In Nomine themed page up there, Yahoo is claiming that you have given permission *on behalf of SJ Games!* to allow them to write IN fiction, IN adventures, etc., and all without compensation to SJ Games *or Croc*! (Are they going to do that? I'd say almost certainly not. But the wording is bad enough that it could damage trademarks, let alone copyright.) If Yahoo doesn't change the wording, I'm going to be trolling their sites for IN content and asking the owners to remove it so that Yahoo can't claim they've had it sublicensed. (Because, you see, we can't sub-license it [to my knowledge at this time] to anyone; only Croc [to my knowledge at this time] can do that. If we allow such a daft "sublicense" to stand, we could get in trouble with _Croc_!) At 5:24 AM -0500 6/29/99, Kris Overstreet wrote: >It also does the following: > >(1) Makes any content unsaleable (can't sign a contract without them to >publish the work) >(2) Prohibits your moving the content to another server (they are part >owners of the rights) Actually, this isn't quite accurate, as I read it -- they get a free _license,_ which isn't exclusive, which means _you_ can do anything you want with the Work as well. But so can they. >(3) They can do just about anything they like with the work (no moral right >of artistic control). And make _derivative works_, remember. Got a short story up there? That clause gives them the right to write a sequal to it, or expand it into a novel, and publish it or give it away, for free... Would they do that? Probably not. But their wording _allows_ that, and in intellectual property cases, there needs to be equal protection... [My job _relies_ on the concept of intellectual property -- don't try to tell me that the (admittedly often slightly buggy) property laws of copyright and trademark should be thrown out so that there's no such thing as intellectual property anymore. Yeah, I'd like to see GURPS IOU reprinted -- but not by every tom, dick, and harriet with a scanner or photocopier!] (Of course, no one says you have to continue to use Yahoo or Geocities! Don't sign the new TOS agreement, copy all your material from the site, and demand that they delete your account there and overwrite the material with ones and zeros.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:06:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1269 At 9:23 AM +0200 6/30/99, Alex van Niel wrote: >>Main book, page 39, first column, under "Automatic Success." (Not under >>Skills, on p. 45, nor even a reference, drat it.) The example it uses is >>Fighting, even. (Though erronious -- CorForces should be being added too!) > >Mmmm, ok, I feel pretty stupid now... I have read over it a million times >and must say I never really paid much attention to it ... Er.. ok, thanks >for this. Althoguh a hint in the book somewhere else would have helped >though :) Ah, the cry for crossreference... (Yes, I agree, frankly. Cross-refs are good things.) >I understand there is going to be a new edition out?? Is that true and if >so, when?? Yes. When I am given the go-ahead on it -- which will probably be when the initial inventory has dropped low enough to need to be reprinted. Buy many copies... There's also GURPS IN, in playtest on Pyramid, which is, among other things, personal practice/a trial-run for re-organizing the main IN book. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:25:51 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Blow the Lid Off! In a message dated 6/30/99 9:06:43 AM Central Daylight Time, earlw@mc.com writes: << It's a gaudy little premise. >> Thanks. I like it, too. :) Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:06:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> First In Nomine comic strip? Hello all, I'm pleased to present the first (well, the first one I know of) In Nomine comic strip, called GNOSIS. The artist is one of my players, Dave Choat. You can see the first few strips at http://www.glue.umd.edu/~dchoat/drolleries/gnosis/index.html Comments, suggestions, etc. always welcome. djd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:26:11 PDT From: Miles 2 Go Subject: IN> Gregori Superior (was: Do relievers have to fledge?) On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:14:24 -0400, Frank Lazar wrote... >Another real question is whether the Grigorim ever dwelled in >Heaven to start with. There's a lot of things rather >strangely anamolous about them, the hint that they were created >to Trip, their unique reproductive abilities, the only major >Choir not to be represented among Superiors... etc. Funny you should say that. I've been playing with an idea for a Gregori superior. Now I realize Blandine already has Menuim servants of Hope, but I was playing around with the Pandora legend, of hope being sent to man to comfort him, and came up with another idea. Strictly non-cannon, but it is an idea. After all if Eli can stay a superior while running around on earth... I was on the run from Judgement, and worried they were closing in on me. I'd been foolish and carried dissonance too long, and just careless, and now the pure symphony came in fits and starts. I was repentant, I just wanted to live long enough to make amends, then maybe I could find my way into grace. I had one clue from a renegade demon (which didn't help my case) of where I might find help. It was my last hope. I was pacing when I heard the noise and whirled around kicking out, and the symphony screamed when I planted a kick in her gut. I prayed out loud, "Dear Lord, please don't let me have killed another one!" I rushed to her side fearful of the worst. "Don't worry, I'm not mortal" she said, "but you are going to have to learn control and caution or you are going to fall yet." My mind whirled racing… not mortal, but in a human body…"Then you're…" "Gregori, yes, and I'm your last hope. Or at least my master is. I certainly hope you haven't given up yet, because we better run like hell after you stirred up the symphony like that." I ran. I ran fast. - --- On earth, in heaven, and in hell, wherever there is despair there is Hope… Phanuel Archangel of Hope With the end of the Eden experiment came Lucifer's rebellion, and most angels were too busy to consider what happened to Adam and Even. Yet there was one angel, Phanuel, who chose to seek them out, to comfort them, and assure them that while they were cast out from the garden they were still precious in the eyes of God. It was this angel that became the first of the Gregori, and was given the word of Hope. Phaunel had left heaven long before the Gregori were outcast. He refused the summons of the Seraphim council to defend the actions of the Gregori stating that "My work is upon the earth." He even approves of the outcasting of the Gregori. "The Gregori are meant to dwell among men, to share their trails and their struggles. This we can not do from heaven." Phaunel moves about the earth and it is whispered even to hell, for wherever there is despair that is where Hope is needed. Phaunel was new for an archangel at the time of his outcasting, and without a cathedral in heaven he cannot consecrate tethers, so he is least in power of all the archangels. However, at the same time his power greatly eclipses any lesser angel and he is not to be trifled with. Phaunel moves among the throngs of earth, and most angels and demons have never heard of him. Those who have, most believe him naught but a rumor, but a few outcasts and renegades search for what may be their last chance - clinging to hope. The vast majority of Phaunel's servitors are Gregori, however, he has been known to take outcasts and even renegades! under his wing. His criteria is simple, you must retain within your heart a burning hope for redemption. As long as the petitioner has kept that hope burns bright, Phaunel will accept the celestial. However, he does not have the strength to redeem. For that one must ultimately leave Phaunel's service and seek a heavenly archangel. He has few permanent servitors, most of his followers are "free agents" who are charged with spreading hope and never falling to despair. Phaunel also accepts human soldiers to his service. Almost all of which are children of Gregori. DISSONANCE It is dissonant for a Servitor of Hope to bring despair to any heart, be it human or celestial. This dissonance can be removed if the Servitor can rekindle the flame of hope in that heart. Note that for Outcasts and Renegades, this includes their own heart if they give up hope of redemption. It is also dissonant for an Angel of Hope to reveal the existence of Phaunel or any Gregori to Heaven or Hell. BAND ATTUNEMENTS Phaunel provides the same attunement to all bands - any dissonance restriction due to their band is removed. Thus they have the breathing room to seek redemption without causing more evil or gaining discord. Phaunel watches his demons quite closely, he's not running a get out of hell free agency, they must work toward redemption. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Seraphim Seraphim of Hope may add their celestial forces to any detect lies skill roll. Thus they may still hear the truth without having to risk falling by asking the symphony. Cherubim Cherubim of Hope retain their attunement across reincarnations if a human soul reincarnates to earth. If they can guide that soul to heaven any dissonance they received for the original death is removed. The Cherubim will "just know" if a target of their resonance has been reborn, but they will still have to make a resonance check to locate their target. Ofanim Ofanim of Hope go from place to place bringing hope to the friendless. They receive an Area Knowledge of the city (urban) or county (rural) they are in equivalent to their celestial forces and automatically know the place in that region where the inhabitants have the least hope for every improving their lives. Elohim Phaunel's Elohim can sense their target's hopes/despairs and what actions might help reach them. Use the Elohim resonance table but with hope/despair instead of the normal emotional state. This requires a resonance check, but failure does not bring risk of falling. Malakim Phaunel rarely accepts Malakim into his ranks. He considers Malakim a source of great despair for many demons who would otherwise seek redemption. Perhaps a heartfelt oath could convince him that a particular Malakim should be an exception. To such a rare individual, Phaunel offers the ability to reword one's oaths so that they are not as prone to collect dissonance. For example, "Not to suffer an evil to live, save that I hold hope that evil will reform." Kyriotates Kyriotates usually seek out Phaunel because they have allowed their to be killed. Phaunel provides such Kyriotates with a vessel that is part of the symphony suggests they make amends by living out the natural life of the host. This vessel is normally an exact copy of the host. However, when this is not practical Phaunel is commonly aware of other lives that were ended to soon. If the Kyriotate can live through the natural span of the vessel, then the dissonance from the death of the original host is removed. Should the Kyriotate abandon the vessel at any time, it dies, seemingly due to a heart attack. Mercurians Phaunel's Mercurians can still interact well with humans without risking resonance checks. They may apply their ethereal forces to their Savoir-Fair and Emote skills checks. Gregori Most of Phaunel's servants are Gregori, or children thereof. They may spend essence to reduce disturbance caused by expenditure of essence. For example if a Gregori uses the Song of Healing with 3 essence, and spends one essence to reduce the disturbance it only makes the noise of 2 essence song. (So by spending double the essence you can create no disturbance). SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Essence Cache This attunement allows servitors of Phaunel to store essence against a rainy day. They may store any ammount of essence in the cache, but it can only be removed while in Limbo to create vessels. For those that are cut off from heaven and hell this is perhaps their only hope of new vessels. Ask Me No Questions The symphony will be strangely quiet when any perception based resonance is used against any celestial who has this attunement. Subtract 3 from the check digit of any perception based resonance checks. If this reduces the result to zero, the check fails and cannot be tried again for a time period equivalent to a three on a failure check. DISTINCTIONS Phaunel's distinctions are normally only given to Gregori and are never given to demons, even those in search of redemption. Vassal of Hope Those without symphonic awareness somehow sense the celestial nature of a Vassal of Hope. This grants a plus two to reaction checks - cumulative with any bonuses due to charisma. Friend of the Lost The angel never gives up hope and can inspire that reaction in others. A Friend of the Lost may ignore penalties to will roles inflicted from any source, and may grant that blessing on one other for one day. They are also immune to despair inflicted by Habbalah resonance. Bringer of Hope Phaunel's word extends to everywhere there is despair. No where is that more true than in hell. This distinction is only available to Gregori. The celestial form of a Bringer of Hope is indistinguishable from that of a human soul. The Bringers are Hope are sent to into hell to bring hope to those who have none. They still generate essence in Hell, although they do so at dawn. RELATIONS Phaunel officially has no relations whatsoever with any archangel. However he is loosely associated with Eli, Novalis, Yves, and Lilith. While he does not meet with them, those serving him will not be censured for aiding them while keeping their nature hidden. Attracting the eye of Judgement or the Game on the other hand… Allied: None Associated: Blandine, Novalis, Yves, Lilith Hostile: Asmodeus, Dominic BASIC RITES Spend four hours helping in a mission, soup kitchen, homeless shelter, burn ward, or anyplace where those who come there have little hope left. Bring hope to someone who has fallen into despair (2 essence) Bring a demon to redemption (3 essence) CHANCE OF INVOCATION: -2 Phaunel goes where he is needed, or where hope bloomed despite great suffering. He's very hard to summon, he has many who need his attention. +1 A child giving up after falling off a bike (skates, etc) +2 A person just laid off of work. +3 A person seriously crippled in an accident +4 A person given months to live by a medical doctor +5 A site of where many human deaths have just taken place +6 Ann Frank's attic _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1271 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.