From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Sep 2 21:58:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26315 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:58:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA24961 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:51:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:51:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199909030251.VAA24961@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1319 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1319 In this digest: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] IN> LOSE 30 POUNDS IN 30 DAYS, GUARANTEED! Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide (Kronos spoilers) Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] RE: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide Re: IN> Rules questions Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] IN> Malakim in Black IN> Attunements Re: IN> Attunements Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] IN> One point about the MUSH ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:54:43 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Uncle Wolf wrote: > As someone who misses the Unicorns and Griffins, I will agree with you > on your take on Uriel, but that is IMHO, and has not much to do with > what follows hereafter. Yeah *blush* > > What makes the Malakim such a combat bunny is their ability to die one > round, and, if they have a spare vessel, they can be right back again > the next round, before you can finish singing the Infernal version of > the Corporeal Song of Healing. They have a fresh vessel, no wounds, no > hits taken, and you are still hurting from the 1st round of this boxing > match. No Trauma+ a spare vessel= Malakim gun bunnies. > Assuming in a Tether at the time... Otherwise about 4 rounds. unless fight really far from Angelic Tether. > > And if I were a demon looking for someone I could go to for help in > redeeming, I would either look for a Servitor of Destiny, of Flowers > [Yes, Novalis is a Cherub, and more than capable of kicking b*** when > she needs to, but... She just doesn't feel the "need to" very often], or > Stone, since they can't throw the first punch, which gives me time to > convince them that I _am_ sincere in my desire to Redeem. Destiny can't > do anything that will send one to their Fate, Novalis frowns _heavily_ > on getting into any unnecessary fights, and Stone Servitors can't throw > the first punch. These are the things that make them the first ones I > would go to if I were a demon looking to Redeem. Anyone else, you are > rolling the dice and hoping not to crap out. Pretty much yeah - if I wasn't cruel - and had had problems with really cruel demons Gabriel's servitors might be an option too.. But potentially risky - a 2nd tier option before the rest of the Archangels. > they are used to mixing it up, in order to protect their charges. [Note > for IN 2ed.: Make the Cherubim your Gun Bunny choir with No Trauma *if* > they die while their charges are still in danger.] Nice idea - yeah. I'll be prodding my GM about that one - although the PC Malakim probably wouldn't be chuffed :) Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:04:21 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Steel Angel wrote: > You're missing a -huge- point, here. The average demon DOESN'T WANT TO BE > REDEEMED. So when they spit on your offer and go commit evil, it's Dissonance > time for the Malakite. Unfortunately, with demons, the best way to keep their > evil from 'living' is to send them back to Hell -as well as- foiling their > plots. Sending them back to Hell after that is a way of making -sure- that > they're out of the loop for a while or, if they've displeased their > Prince...permenantly. Remember, when it comes down to brass tacks, the average > demon is going to play you like a fiddle if you think you're going to be able > to 'show them the error of their ways'. > I'm perfectly well aware of the most demons don't want to redeem - but from the angelic viewpoint they are so fundamentally wrong and flawed - and need fixed. And destroyed celestials on earth is really quite difficult unless they choose to hang around in celestial form - and vessel killing is fairly pointless really. Again it comes down it yes it would be hard - but angels shouldn't take the easy option. And I never suggested that demons who the angel meets but fails to redeem should be allowed to just saunter off back to demonic plots - attempt to redeem first - if fail then take the easy option and kill. > > Again, if a Malakite sees that a demon -wants- to Redeem, then, more than > likely, they -will- help. The quote from the book implied otherwise - I can't rem it exactly - something about giving -permanent- help. > > When you get down to it, you have to remember that -most- demons (and > their numbers are vast) don't want to be redeemed and are irrevocably selfish. I can't really accept the idea that most demons are that selfish - the possibility exists that every demon - even Lucifer himself will redeem. Simply - the angels are right. Even in more indeterminate version of the setting - everything has a choice to make about their actions and morality - - and that choice can be made at any time and changed at any time. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 09:46:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Tim Groth wrote: > But you make a good point, all Malakim characters seem to be > exactly the same when their is plenty of room for variation and > interesting characters. Oh, I dunno. The Liber Servitorum went out of its way to present a couple of novel Malakim -- one of Eli, with the vessel of a little girl, and one of Novalis, who combines oriental martial arts with a passion for bonsai cultivation. Also, this thread might be a good time to reiterate my idea for alternate Malakite steroetypes: In addition to the grim heavenly hit men, you have options (I think) like James Bond or the Three Musketeers, full of wit and humor. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:34:47 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 8:11 PM -0700 9/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: >Douglas Muir wrote: > > > And risking massive Dissonance as demon after demon cuts out on the 'soft >touch'. Remember, trying to redeem the Fallen carries a -very- great risk that >they will betray you if you don't already -know- they're sincere about it. And >if they're sincere about it, and you -know- it, then it's -quite- a different >matter. Look how the Brights swoon over the Malakim for an example of how the >really Redeemable differ from the average demon. That's where the Malakim Resonance comes in handy, you know... I mean, you can *see* their most honorable recent deeds and dishonorable ones. Malakim have great advantages in seeing the tenor of even a Demon's soul, and making a judgement from there. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:29:28 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 2:23 PM -0500 9/1/99, Uncle Wolf wrote: > > Warsinger wrote: > > Player looking through the IN rulebook in character generation: "I want to > > play a Malakim - so I'll take the Fighting, Dodge, Large Weapon etc skills > > right?... Oh and Song of Thunder..." > > > > The Malakim resonance is for Honour not combat - based on pure Resonance > > the Calabim are overall the more effective Celestial fighters - and on the > > angelic side I'd say the Ofanim are. So why do all Malakim get lumped > > into combat bunny category? 'Historically' in IN I'd blame Uriel - psycho > > little freak that he was :) (I like to make my biases clear at the start > > :) ), but in game mechanical terms - well the write-ups under each > > Superior make it clear. > >As someone who misses the Unicorns and Griffins, I will agree with you >on your take on Uriel, but that is IMHO, and has not much to do with >what follows hereafter. > >What makes the Malakim such a combat bunny is their ability to die one >round, and, if they have a spare vessel, they can be right back again >the next round, before you can finish singing the Infernal version of >the Corporeal Song of Healing. They have a fresh vessel, no wounds, no >hits taken, and you are still hurting from the 1st round of this boxing >match. No Trauma+ a spare vessel= Malakim gun bunnies. To my knowledge, a Malakite will still take some hours to appear before his Heart, even if he's in no Trauma when he gets there. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:25:20 From: newyou@mailcty.com Subject: IN> LOSE 30 POUNDS IN 30 DAYS, GUARANTEED! *****AMAZING MELT AWAY FAT ABSORBER CAPSULES***** *****WE GLADLY SHIP TO ALL FOREIGN COUNTRIES***** LOSE 30 POUNDS IN 30 DAYS... GUARANTEED!!! All Natural Weight-Loss Program, Speeds Up The Metabolism Safely Rated #1 In Both Categories of SAFETY & EFFECTIVENESS In (THE USA TODAY) WE'LL HELP YOU GET THINNER IN WINTER!!! WE'RE GOING TO HELP YOU LOOK GOOD, FEEL GOOD AND TAKE CONTROL IN 2000 This is the easiest, fastest, and most effective way to lose both pounds and inches permanently!!! 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Suite C * Dayton, Ohio 45405 (937) 330-5414 CHECK____ MONEYORDER____ AMERCAN EXPRESS____ VISA____ MASTERCARD____ Name_______________________________________________________ (As it appears on Check or Credit Card) Address____________________________________________________ (As it appears on Check or Credit Card) ___________________________________________________ City,State,Zip(As it appears on Check or Credit Card) ___________________________________________________ (Credit Card Number) Expiration Month_____ Year_____ ___________________________________________________ Email Address (Please Write Neat) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:10:01 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > At 2:23 PM -0500 9/1/99, Uncle Wolf wrote: [snip] > >What makes the Malakim such a combat bunny is their ability to die > >one round, and, if they have a spare vessel, they can be right back > >again the next round, before you can finish singing the Infernal > >version of the Corporeal Song of Healing. They have a fresh vessel, > >no wounds, no hits taken, and you are still hurting from the 1st > >round of this boxing match. No Trauma+ a spare vessel= Malakim gun > >bunnies. > > To my knowledge, a Malakite will still take some hours to appear > before his Heart, even if he's in no Trauma when he gets there. Eh? Where does this come from? Someone else suggested a Malakite has to come down a Tether after he gets whacked; I've always played it that he can come back to where the last vessel was killed. (ISTR Fiat runs it this way as well.) This presupposes that, when you descend back to Earth, the place you go back to is where you were last physically. If, OTOH, you go back to where your *vessel* was last time, then a) it makes sense to have to go down a Tether, because your new vessel wasn't anywhere near where your dead one was, and b) it makes multiple vessels more useful, because they can be in radically different places at, pretty much, the same time. By ascending to Heaven from one, then descending to another, you can travel faster than pretty much anything on Earth. Sure, it's noisy and expensive, but it's a bloody good way of getting somewhere in a hurry. Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:13:44 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide (Kronos spoilers) At 23:35 -0400 9/1/99, David Streeter wrote: >What I'd REALLY like to see is a book of adventures, with writeups in as >much detail as Feast of Blades. Maybe four adventures (standalone, but with >a linked subplot) in the standard IN book size. I don't think it will happen soon -- RPG adventures in general apparently don't sell well. SJGames actually published several "4 in 1 book" adventure books for GURPS, but they weren't big sellers, and are now mostly out of print. More Cycle books may be possible, though they'd probably be more linked than what you're looking for. (Future ones would likely lack new rules material or other major canon stuff, and concentrate on background and adventure material, if I remember Elizabeth's intentions right.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:23:51 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 10:46 -0400 9/2/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Also, this thread might be a good time to reiterate my idea for >alternate Malakite steroetypes: In addition to the grim heavenly >hit men, you have options (I think) like James Bond or the Three >Musketeers, full of wit and humor. I also once proposed that Malakim of Flowers tended to root out *social* evils -- i.e., that they're the classical wild-eyed liberal types who crusade against poverty, disease, and Big Evil Corporations (TM). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:33:56 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 23:11 -0400 9/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: > Look how the Brights swoon over the Malakim for an example of how the >really Redeemable differ from the average demon. Bright Lilim are already redeemed, they may be much less thrilled by Malakim while in their proto-Bright (Renegade demon) state. From comments Elizabeth has made, I think the fascination Bright Lilim have with Malakim is sort of like the fascination wandering around with a tame tiger would have for many humans -- "it's beautiful, it's deadly, and it's not going to bite *me*".... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:43:11 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 6:10 PM +0100 9/2/99, Sam Kington wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > > > At 2:23 PM -0500 9/1/99, Uncle Wolf wrote: >[snip] > > >What makes the Malakim such a combat bunny is their ability to die > > >one round, and, if they have a spare vessel, they can be right back > > >again the next round, before you can finish singing the Infernal > > >version of the Corporeal Song of Healing. They have a fresh vessel, > > >no wounds, no hits taken, and you are still hurting from the 1st > > >round of this boxing match. No Trauma+ a spare vessel= Malakim gun > > >bunnies. > > > > To my knowledge, a Malakite will still take some hours to appear > > before his Heart, even if he's in no Trauma when he gets there. > >Eh? Where does this come from? As I recall (I don't have it in front of me) the Main Book says that a Celestial whose Vessel is killed takes hours to reach his Heart. It's not an instantaneous affair. I concede I may be remembering incorrectly, though if I am IMC it will stay that way as it's a nice bit of imagry, I think. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:58 -0400 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Ethereal Player's Guide > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of David Streeter > > What I'd REALLY like to see is a book of adventures, with writeups in as > much detail as Feast of Blades. Maybe four adventures > (standalone, but with > a linked subplot) in the standard IN book size. I fully agree on this point. As someone who just started an IN campaign (after being out of roleplaying for 5+ years, and not having GM'ed for even longer) I'm finding the time I have to prepare quality adventures isn't what it used to be. I really liked Feast of Blades, and it's just the sort of thing I'm looking for -- a well designed plot arc with good, flexible characters, devices to help move the plot along, if necessary, and enough options to allow me to hook it into my campaign as best suits the group. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:32:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rules questions At 7:07 PM -0700 8/31/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >1. If a Malakite resonates a human possessed by a Shedite, does he get >results from the human, or from the Shedite? To some extent, this is up to the evilness of the GM. I would say that _generally_ the resonance picks up the controlling personality, which is (most of the time) the Shedite. The GM might decree quietly to herself that the Malakite has to make his resonance by X to tell if there's a doubled-soul, or if he makes it by an odd number he gets the host and by an even number, the Shedite... Or anything else to make Shedim creepy. Of course, the Malakite, even if he spots a Shedite, still has to figure out if the demon's ride deserves the demon's fate. >2. What are the mechanics, if any, for a character "pulling a punch," as >when (for example) a Strength 9 Malakite wishes to subdue (i.e. knock >unconscious) a human possessed by a Shedite without doing the human any more >damage than can be avoided? None to my knowledge. I'd probably halve the damage, and/or require a separate Fighting roll, or something like that. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:10:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 12:43 PM -0600 9/2/99, Tim Groth wrote: > About Ofanim being better fighters that may be true, except the >thing that makes demons so scared of Malakim are: [...] And #4: If they happen to have another vessel, then even _killing_ them only slows them down a minute or two. Or less. (Malakite gets vessel-death. Malakite shows up at Heart, PO'ed. Malakite yells, "HEY RUBE!" A bunch of Malakim (and others, probably) who have vessels and spare time congregate. The Malakite descends to his last corporeal location (where his other vessel was killed) with all his buddies. Demons go, "AW ****!") Malakim. They're like cockroaches. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 15:14:42 -0400 From: "Mason Kramer" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] - ---------- >From: Elizabeth McCoy >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] >Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 3:10 PM > > At 12:43 PM -0600 9/2/99, Tim Groth wrote: >> About Ofanim being better fighters that may be true, except the >>thing that makes demons so scared of Malakim are: [...] > > And #4: If they happen to have another vessel, then even _killing_ them only > slows them down a minute or two. Or less. (Malakite gets vessel-death. > Malakite shows up at Heart, PO'ed. Malakite yells, "HEY RUBE!" A bunch of > Malakim (and others, probably) who have vessels and spare time congregate. > The Malakite descends to his last corporeal location (where his other vessel > was killed) with all his buddies. Demons go, "AW ****!") > > Malakim. They're like cockroaches. > Darn you, Beth. Now I have this image of a group of Malakim crawling out of the woodwork to confront a band of Demons... only to be stopped in their tracks, faces going panicked as they shout "RAID????" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:44:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 3:14 PM -0400 9/2/99, Mason Kramer wrote: >>From: Elizabeth McCoy >> Malakim. They're like cockroaches. > >Darn you, Beth. Now I have this image of a group of Malakim crawling out of >the woodwork to confront a band of Demons... only to be stopped in their >tracks, faces going panicked as they shout "RAID????" Why do you think they all secretly hate Vapulans? Vapulans know where to get the REALLY BIG spraycans! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:01:12 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 3:44 PM -0400 9/2/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 3:14 PM -0400 9/2/99, Mason Kramer wrote: > > >>From: Elizabeth McCoy > >> Malakim. They're like cockroaches. > > > >Darn you, Beth. Now I have this image of a group of Malakim crawling out of > >the woodwork to confront a band of Demons... only to be stopped in their > >tracks, faces going panicked as they shout "RAID????" > > Why do you think they all secretly hate Vapulans? Vapulans >know where to get the REALLY BIG spraycans! > This is all very quickly becoming a particularly hokey episode of "Captain Planet and the Planeteers." Hm. He never directly attacks anyone, though. What happens when a Mercurian with some *weird* physical discords (Blue skin, eighties hair...) and Bound discords to a bunch of artifact rings comes under the influence of an Ethereal spirit who recruits a bunch of Ethereal Soldiers.... Well, besides really whacked Hanna Barbara cartoons. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:08:15 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] >> Mind you, there are ways for the Malakim to be subtle. A number of famous >> policemen and prosecutors have been Malakim. Sending an evil human to the >> electric chair satisfies their oath just fine. Remember, the Mal doesn't >> have to kill the evil himself; he just can't suffer it to live. And if the >> jury lets the bad guy walk, hey, it's not the Malakite's fault or choice >> (this assumes that the Superior has instructed him to hold that Role, of >> course). >> > > It also goes against -everything- a Malakite stands for, as much as a >Cherub deliberately trying to create a 'Nemesis Attunement' (APG). 'Hey, it's >not -my- fault if the jury let him go.' is NOT a Malakite talking. Actually, that was me talking... driving home the point that it's not the Mal's fault that the bad guy is escaping. >I dunno what >it is, but it's not a Malakite. Well, strictly speaking, it's the Mal's Role. And Roles do matter. Remember, if your Role is good enough, you can kill humans without affecting the Symphony... >If the Malakite -knows- that human was guilty >and -can- do something about it, and -knows- that that human is out there, >getting away with evil...it's Dissonant. No. My point was that he *can't* do anything about it, because he's been ordered by his Superior not to break Role. Direct orders trump the Oath, by taking away a Mal's "choice". If a Superior orders a Malakite to stand on a street corner with folded arms while a dozen demons stroll by, oozing evil all down the sidewalk, and to let them pass by peacefully... then the Mal will do it. He'll probably really, really hate it and be very unhappy, but it will not cause him any Dissonance, because it wasn't his choice to let the demons go. IMO, a Malakite cop who busted a bad guy would get very, very annoyed if the jury let him go (or if he walked on a technicality or a plea bargain, or whatever)... but he wouldn't get Dissonance, unless it was *his* fault the crook walked (i.e., he failed to read his Miranda rights properly, or some such). And, keep in mind, a Malakite cop or prosecutor is fighting evil about as directly as any human can. Yeah, some crooks will walk, but most won't -- they'll be punished, and in some cases executed. This should make the Malakite very, very happy. Mind you, I agree that this could be pushed too far. It would probably be asking too much of a Malakite to take on the Role of a judge, for instance. In the US system, judges are supposed to be impartial, which is pretty damn difficult when you know who's honest and who's not, and who's been doing evil lately, Even with strict instructions, you'd still have one miserably unhappy angel. >It's also disgusting behavior for an >angel...I'm sure most Superiors aren't going to be happy with the cop out, >either. ? Angels are capable of doing all sorts of disgusting things in order to further the greater good. And, let's face it, a Malakite in a Role as a cop or prosecutor could do a *lot* of good, even if it means that he occasionally has to grit his teeth and watch a bad guy go free for a while. A wise Superior will carefully explain that this is the cost of doing business in an imperfect system designed by imperfect (human) beings. The occasional crook who beats a rap will annoy the angel, but it won't cause him Dissonance, and (I suspect) he'll likely put the annoyance into his work, determined to catch the next one. Also, if a really serious evil were going to be unleashed -- a disguised demon, a serial rapist, a completely ruthless murderer -- the Mal could (and doubtless would) send a message to the home office, asking for a special waiver. The justice system moves slow enough so that there's time. So, when the Impudite of Fleurity who has been pushing drugs all over the South Side strolls out of the courtroom (after having Charmed the jury, and maybe slurped some Essence from them as well), he's probably going to be walking into a very, very special welcome... A town with a Malakite cop or prosecutor is going to become a rather nice place to live after a while. >> Another point that gets missed is that the Malakite resonance is pretty >> handy for digging up information about humans... all humans, not just the >> spectacularly good and evil ones. After the Seraphim, the Malakim are tied >> with Mercurians for "best Celestial detectives". >> > > Oh yeah, I just recently played a Malakite of Judgement who posed as a cop >and 'blackmailed' a lot of info out of humans by threatening to release >-little- things they've done. He was pursuing a -much- greater evil and, by >pointing the little evils out, doing a bit to make the human act a bit better >in future. Totally appropriate behavior for a Mal IMO. Seraphs would do this sort of thing too, BTW, but it might take them a bit longer... they have to play "20 questions" with the human, while the Mal can just resonate. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:26:52 GMT From: "Krowe _" Subject: IN> Malakim in Black I'm going through the INC and list archives right now and I'm wondering if anyone has written up any additional information on the Malakim in Black. I'm thinking about having them make a few appearances in my games to take the edge of the dramatically serious tone some of my players are taking. One player just lost his vessel and is in Trauma and his companion isn't far behind. The rest of the group is in no position to assist them and my players are starting to get that bleak "let's start over" look in their eyes. They need a pick-me-up and I think the humour and pure shock value of mysterious, black suited, sunglass wearing Virtues armed with all sorts of neat and nifty gadgets coming to the rescue is sure to make them think that I've lost my mind. Feel free to send any info privately unless you'd like to enlighten the list with a post. Thanks ahead of time, Krowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:40:07 -0400 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: IN> Attunements Can an angel get a demonic attunement? (Such as a Cherub getting a "Djinn of War" attunement, for example). Notwithstanding what their superior thought about it, of course. Similarly, I know angels cannot get the choir attunements of any different choir from another Superior, but can they get the generic Servitor Attunements? What about Distinctions? And do distinctions need to be granted in order? (Can an angel have "Friend of the Shareholders" without having "Vassal of Trade"?) - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:01:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Attunements At 6:40 PM -0400 9/2/99, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > Can an angel get a demonic attunement? (Such as a Cherub getting a >"Djinn of War" attunement, for example). Yes. If they voluntarily accept it. Which comes with 1 note of dissonance. Plus another note every time they use it. (IIRC, this is in the Forthcoming GameMaster's Guide...) >Similarly, I know angels cannot get >the choir attunements of any different choir from another Superior, but can >they get the generic Servitor Attunements? Yes. >What about Distinctions? Yes. > And do distinctions need to be granted in order? (Can an angel have >"Friend of the Shareholders" without having "Vassal of Trade"?) Yes. (No.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:01:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] At 5:08 PM -0400 9/2/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >Angels are capable of doing all sorts of disgusting things in order to >further the greater good. And, let's face it, a Malakite in a Role as a >cop or prosecutor could do a *lot* of good, even if it means that he >occasionally has to grit his teeth and watch a bad guy go free for a while. And such things are why you cultivate a quiet maildrop with the nearest Malakite of Fire who wanders around playing vigilante. Or otherwise quietly drop word that someone walked who is scum... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:44:43 +0000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Beth wrote: > And #4: If they happen to have another vessel, then even _killing_ them only > slows them down a minute or two. Or less. (Malakite gets vessel-death. > Malakite shows up at Heart, PO'ed. Malakite yells, "HEY RUBE!" A bunch of > Malakim (and others, probably) who have vessels and spare time congregate. > The Malakite descends to his last corporeal location (where his other vessel > was killed) with all his buddies. Demons go, "AW ****!") Unless it's been errata'd somewhere, or changed, the main rulebook states that *any* celestial who is killed can avoid trauma if they have a spare vessel. Therefore this trick works for everyone, not just Malakim. If the Malakite doesn't have a spare vessel, but does have favour with its boss, that's when they get scary. Boss just gives them another and off they go. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:23:20 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] >Beth wrote: > >> And #4: If they happen to have another vessel, then even _killing_ them only >> slows them down a minute or two. Or less. (Malakite gets vessel-death. >> Malakite shows up at Heart, PO'ed. Malakite yells, "HEY RUBE!" A bunch of >> Malakim (and others, probably) who have vessels and spare time congregate. >> The Malakite descends to his last corporeal location (where his other vessel >> was killed) with all his buddies. Demons go, "AW ****!") > >Unless it's been errata'd somewhere, or changed, the main rulebook >states that *any* celestial who is killed can avoid trauma if they >have a spare vessel. Therefore this trick works for everyone, not >just Malakim. > >If the Malakite doesn't have a spare vessel, but does have favour >with its boss, that's when they get scary. Boss just gives them >another and off they go. > I'm sure if they went down in battle the boss would understand and send them back. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:55:51 -0500 From: "Michael Neal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Beth wrote: >> And #4: If they happen to have another vessel, then even _killing_ them only >> slows them down a minute or two. Or less. (Malakite gets vessel-death. >> Malakite shows up at Heart, PO'ed. Malakite yells, "HEY RUBE!" A bunch of >> Malakim (and others, probably) who have vessels and spare time congregate. >> The Malakite descends to his last corporeal location (where his other vessel >> was killed) with all his buddies. Demons go, "AW ****!") >Unless it's been errata'd somewhere, or changed, the main rulebook >states that *any* celestial who is killed can avoid trauma if they >have a spare vessel. Therefore this trick works for everyone, not >just Malakim. >If the Malakite doesn't have a spare vessel, but does have favour >with its boss, that's when they get scary. Boss just gives them >another and off they go. Ooooh, may I take this one Ms. Line Editor, since I publicly humiliated myself with the same mistake once? And can we all repeat in unison that it needs to be fixed in a 2nd Edition? This trick only works if the spare vessel is stashed in a Body Bag. You won't find this in the Combat or Trauma rules, but only in the description of the Body Bag, on page 71 of the main rulebook (and even there, it isn't *completely* clear). If you don't have a vessel stashed, you still go to Trauma, but have a ready vessel when you get out. And if you do have one stashed, it's presumably somewhere safe, which may well be far away from where the fight took place and you'd have to travel there. If it's really close by, you may have bigger worries than getting back into the fray. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:44:57 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Warsinger wrote: > > > I'm perfectly well aware of the most demons don't want to redeem - but > from the angelic viewpoint they are so fundamentally wrong and flawed - > and need fixed. And destroyed celestials on earth is really quite > difficult unless they choose to hang around in celestial form - and vessel > killing is fairly pointless really. Umm, no it's not. Trauma is -hardly- pointless, nor is having a -demon- endng up back in Hell to face an angry Prince. In fact, it's one of the -worst- things you can do to them. Also, Redemption takes -time-, and all the while you're working someone, he's off hurting people while you stad by and watch it. Unless you try to Redeem them in oh...a single day, you're going to get Dissonance. > > Again, if a Malakite sees that a demon -wants- to Redeem, then, more than > > likely, they -will- help. > > The quote from the book implied otherwise - I can't rem it exactly - > something about giving -permanent- help. > You gotta take it with a grain of salt. It just says they might give some - -quick- help, Malakim do not have nurturing natures. Which is true. Then again, Ofanim aren't patient, either. It's the rule, but there are exceptions. > > > When you get down to it, you have to remember that -most- demons (and > > their numbers are vast) don't want to be redeemed and are irrevocably selfish. > > I can't really accept the idea that most demons are that selfish - the > possibility exists that every demon - even Lucifer himself will redeem. > Simply - the angels are right. Even in more indeterminate version of the > setting - everything has a choice to make about their actions and morality > - and that choice can be made at any time and changed at any time. > > I'm afraid you'll have to accept that most demons are selfish. It's what > -makes- them demons. Every single book won't budge on that point. When it comes > down ot it, what makes them demons is the fact that they will -always- help > themselves first, -always-. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:47:27 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Malakim [Longish] Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 8:11 PM -0700 9/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: > > > > And risking massive Dissonance as demon after demon cuts out on the 'soft > >touch'. Remember, trying to redeem the Fallen carries a -very- great risk that > >they will betray you if you don't already -know- they're sincere about it. And > >if they're sincere about it, and you -know- it, then it's -quite- a different > >matter. Look how the Brights swoon over the Malakim for an example of how the > >really Redeemable differ from the average demon. > > That's where the Malakim Resonance comes in handy, you know... I > mean, you can *see* their most honorable recent deeds and > dishonorable ones. Malakim have great advantages in seeing the tenor > of even a Demon's soul, and making a judgement from there. Yep, and then, you -know- it wants Redemption. I just think it's a big mistake for a Malakite to play missonary to a demo who he hasn't detected the desire to Redeem in. It's not their function. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 03:50:22 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: IN> One point about the MUSH I know about the SJG policy about it being free - sorry if I didn't make it clear that when I mentioned paying to get a site - I meant me pay for it - and I would just absorb the cost without passing it on to users. (Why yes I am mad :) ) Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1319 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.