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in_nomine-digest     Saturday, September 11 1999     Volume 01 : Number 1326



In this digest:

   RE: IN> Another rule question
   Re: IN> The new GURPS In Nomine
   RE: IN> Malakim
   IN> Fighting
   IN> Mercurians and Violence
   IN> Song of Possession
   Re: IN> How to Play Demons (and Angels)...LONG
   Re: IN> Malakim
   IN> e-mail problems
   Re: IN> How do people play demons?
   IN> malakim resonance
   Re: IN> Mercurians and Violence
   RE: IN> Malakim
   Re: IN> malakim resonance
   Re: IN> Rules Questions.
   IN> Getting rid of MIME/HTML
   IN> My theory on Hitler
   Re: IN> Disneyworld (was How do people play demons?)
   IN> eLectronic mktg & software....an Internet Goldmine!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:01:02 -0400
From: Walter Milliken <milliken@io.com>
Subject: RE: IN> Another rule question

At 18:38 -0400 9/9/99, Chris Bergstresser wrote:
>  Whoa, whoa, wait a minute: the Fighting skill is based on Fighting +
>Strength + Corporeal Forces?  That seems *really* ripe for abuse.

Look at the IN errata: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/in-nomine.html
especially for p. 75 (Fighting skill) and pp. 62,63,64 (attack skills
add weapon skill to base characteristic+<realm> Forces -- Fighting is
considered a "weapon" skill).

Yeah, celestials with a combat slant can do lots of damage.  But you need
a few of those if the GM doesn't want to spend several hours dealing with
a combat involving one of those 144 hit monsters....

>> >With claws
>> >extended, she'd have a 12 to hit and a power of +2 (-3 fists, +1
>> strength,
>> >+4 claws).
>>
>> I'd read it that the Power 4 from Claws is *instead of* -3 from fists --
>> you don't subtract the fist-only Power from a knife attack!  It's just
>> that fists aren't very good weapons for doing damage.
>
>   Oh, OK.  That makes more sense.

Looking at the table on p. 65, it seems pretty clear that these are
mutually exclusive options (Punch, Kick, Brass Knuckles, etc. are each
listed as "weapons").  Claws would appear to follow the same logic.

I do note that the Strength bonus, described in this box, appear to
apply only to Punch and Kick attacks, since it's part of the note
that talks about ways those attacks can get increased Power.  Personally,
I'd apply the Strength bonus to all the hand-to-hand attack forms.


- ---Walter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:19:15 -0400
From: Walter Milliken <milliken@io.com>
Subject: Re: IN> The new GURPS In Nomine

At 18:25 -0400 9/9/99, Cliff Wallis wrote:
>I am new to In Nomine.  I have several of the resource books already and
>understand that their is a GURPS In Nomine book coming soon.  Is the GURPS
>IN Nomine a stand alone product or is it intended to supplement the In
>Nomine Rulebook, or do I need both to fully appreciate the game?
>thanks.

GURPS In Nomine and the main In Nomine book cover roughly the same material;
the main difference is which game system (GURPS or IN) you want to use.

GURPS In Nomine relies on the GURPS Basic Set and GURPS Compendium I
for most of the game rules, In Nomine includes its own set of game mechanics.
GURPS IN does include some additional game mechanics peculiar to the
In Nomine background, like dealing with the three realms, and combat in
each, Essence, vessels, etc.

So an In Nomine campaign can be run with either the In Nomine main book,
or with GURPS In Nomine plus the GURPS Basic Set.  (And you probably really
need GURPS Compendium I for some of the supernatural power mechanics).

In theory, all of the In Nomine supplements can be used with either,
since GURPS In Nomine includes the necessary guidelines for converting
In Nomine material to GURPS mechanics, though some things will take
GM judgement calls.  But the In Nomine supplements are written specifically
to the In Nomine rules -- I don't expect we'll see "dual stat" material
in the In Nomine line with both IN and GURPS mechanics.

GURPS In Nomine can also be used to convert GURPS material to In Nomine
mechanics, though this is a little tricky, since GURPS allows much more
complex characters than In Nomine mechanics are designed for.


That said, the GURPS In Nomine book has the advantage of a couple years
experience with the In Nomine system, various questions people ask about it,
and the things people complain about in the main book.  So it's somewhat
clearer (we hope), and much better organized (we *really* hope), and
occasionally includes bits of material from IN supplements where that
seemed really useful.  But we couldn't include everything, naturally.

In one place, it actually includes material that hasn't yet been published
in In Nomine itself -- mostly because we wanted the major Choirs and
Bands covered in GURPS mechanics, and the Grigori and the Children of
the Grigori are mentioned in the main In Nomine book, but not actually
given game mechanics.  But that's expected to be rectified relatively soon
in the In Nomine line.  And it seemed rather evil to withold those few bits
of information from the GURPS In Nomine buyers.


And yes, I'm the other author of GURPS In Nomine....


- ---Walter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:18:48 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: RE: IN> Malakim

At 9:12 AM +0000 9/10/99, Leath Sheales wrote:
>Beth wrote:
>
> > It's actually one of the passages I am likely to alter slightly 
>in any revised
> > editions. In the beginning, I'm happily willing to assume that he didn't
> > register as "evil" to passing Malakim. After things got rolling, they would
> > have been _forbidden_ to tamper with humanity by offing such a 
>public figure.
> > They'd have had to content themselves with picking off the demons 
>who flocked
> > to the banner... if said demons didn't have too strong a Role to 
>get at them
> > without exposing themselves to mundanes.
>
>Ever consider all those failed assassination attempts against Hitler?
>Perhaps they were conducted by angels trying to 'buck the system' and
>remove this human.  However, Kronos was loving this human working
>diligently toward his Fate, and inspiring hundreds (thousands?) of
>others to do the same.  Hitler probably had some rather powerful
>demonic protectors watching his back.
>
>Just a few IN thoughts.

Especially when you consider that he committed suicide.  Say, in the 
final days of the Third Reich, his protectors, seeing that it's a 
lost cause, help show him just how completely he achieved his Fate, 
abandoning him to insanity and despair in the last....

Trademark Kronos, I think.


- --
Eric Alfred Burns                   It was then I felt my heart break like a
in-sabre@annotations.com        fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of
http://www.annotations.com        Reality -- and it's been broken ever since.
http://www.annotations.com/~journal                           --Johnny Bravo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:40:43 -0400
From: David Edelstein <AmadanSJG@compuserve.com>
Subject: IN> Fighting

>>>Whoa, whoa, wait a minute: the Fighting skill is based on Fighting +
Strength + Corporeal Forces?  That seems *really* ripe for abuse.<<<

It can be. This was addressed in the GMG, and one optional rule was
proposed which takes Corporeal Forces out of the equation. The problem if
you do this is that it makes humans even wimpier than they already are --
your average mundane will be totally incapable of inflicting damage with a
punch, or very nearly so.

>>>I'd read it that the Power 4 from Claws is *instead of* -3 from fists --
> you don't subtract the fist-only Power from a knife attack!  It's just
> that fists aren't very good weapons for doing damage.<<<

This is correct. The Power listed for NC attacks is the Power of that
attack, it's not added to base unarmed Power.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:40:44 -0400
From: David Edelstein <AmadanSJG@compuserve.com>
Subject: IN> Mercurians and Violence

>>>> What happens if they shout
> at a human a whole bunch and threaten him with dire consequences?

That's okay. That's close enough to "diplomacy" in some circles... Of
course, if you do it inappropriately, someone will notice and want to
ask you some questions eventually.<<<

I'd also say at a certain point, a screaming, bullying Mercurian crosses
the line into dissonance. Emotional & verbal abuse can be nearly as violent
as physical abuse.

Raising your voice or making a few threats shouldn't be dissonant, but a
Mercurian who acts like the drill sergeant in "Full Metal Jacket" is
another story...

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:40:46 -0400
From: David Edelstein <AmadanSJG@compuserve.com>
Subject: IN> Song of Possession

>>>Ah, right, that mess between resist with check digit and simply "make
your own Will roll." Let me see if the Canticorum is more clear on this.
The Canticorum says, "If he succeeds, he is not possessed [...]." I 
would read that as, "Make your Will roll, and you're fine, no matter
who had the better check digit."<<<


The Liber Canticorum specifically designates those Songs (such as
Possession) that are *negated* by a successful resistance roll. If
resistance negates the Song, then the subject only needs to succeed on his
roll. Otherwise, it is a contest of check digits.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:47:54 -0500
From: "Ben Chism" <bwchism@network-one.com>
Subject: Re: IN> How to Play Demons (and Angels)...LONG

> Though it's not my favorite science fiction series, I think "The Quintara
> Marathon" trilogy by Jack Chalker is, strangely enough, a good resource
for
> an In Nomine GM. It presents three vastly different civilizations, each
> with a social structure and moral code that seems pretty evil to the other
> two, and then spends time portraying protagonists from each civilization.
Big <SNIP>

     While I've never read this series(Although I might have to now...)
Some of it is pretty close to how I picture the official IN universe.
Heaven is great...for angels..but demons see it as oppresive..Hell...well
it's hell...but better to rule in hell than to serve..well you know.
Angels see Hell as completly evil...but even demons can be *good*.  The
demons are actually closer to humans..concerned about themselves...convinced
they are right..looking out for #1.  Angels are more of what good people
strive to be..selfless..giving..caring..honorable(not all angels fit in all
catagories!!).  Humans tend to run between the extremes...I love Good Omens
for this(if you haven't read it...do so...great for darkly humorous
campaings, I believe the main book says)...Crowley sending back human made
contracts to Hell with a note that says "Learn guys"...the stuff about
humans being so delightfully creative..etc.  If you think about it..humans
can be worse than any demon...if they try..and they can be even more
selfless than any angel.   IMC, I tend to up the contrast a little...heaven
is more bright and noble...hell...well...more nasty.  I do like to play
around in the main universe..as a break...since it muddles the lines.
     As to playing demons..it's all about how you interpret their motives.
Sure, you can take the classic Christian view(which I am, btw) and have them
totally depraved.  If you read most of the passages in the Bible dealing
with demons, you find they don't exactally mirror common belief.  Look at
the Garden of Eden...read carefully what the serpant told Eve...not a word
of it is a lie..if you think about it.  The "you won't die..you'll become
like God"  is all true...they didn't drop dead from the fruit...and later in
the chapter God says they've become like Him(Genesis 3..various verses).
That threw me for a loop the first time I realized it...then it got me
thinking.  When you look at Satan in the OT he's the accuser of the
faithful...testing them and their faith.  In the NT he moves to the Advesary
role...Fallen angel...corrupter..(well enough of that...I could go on and
on)
      Well, I'd just say..like others...it all depends on your views...A
demon can be the murdering, child-molesting, pet killing, monster...or he
can just be almost human...just trying to carve out his on place..and having
fun while doing it..

Ben Chism
sheesh...longer than I thought...and I could still have gone on...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:36:08 -0500
From: Earl Wajenberg <earlw@mc.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Malakim

On Yves forbidding a Hitler wipe-out:

There is a recent series of books about time travel called "Timeshare." 
In one, a time traveler reminisces about the attempt he and a buddy 
made to wipe out Hitler.  They did.  And it got much worse.  Another 
guy -- someone we never heard of, here in the original history -- 
took his place, and HE was just as evil but not as nuts.  The 
Holocaust was worse, Russia took longer to come over to the Allies 
(or never did), Germany flattened Britain and started to work on 
the US from the east while Japan attacked from the west-- And about 
then they reinstated the old history.

Yves could have foreseen something like that.

Earl

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:40:19 -0500
From: "Dennis Groome V" <dgroome5@petrocom.com>
Subject: IN> e-mail problems

This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

- --=_CD9B2E6D.5534583C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

until my computer at home starts functioning correctly again, I'll be =
e-mailing from my work address.  well, here's some responses I missed in =
the past three days...




- - Dennis H. Groome V
Assistant IS Manager
Petroleum Communications, Inc.


- --=_CD9B2E6D.5534583C
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Dennis Groome V.vcf"

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:Groome V, Dennis
TEL;WORK:(504) 469-3283
ORG:;IS
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:dgroome5@petrocom.com
N:Groome V;Dennis
TITLE:Assistant IS Manager
X-GWUSERID:dgroome5
END:VCARD


- --=_CD9B2E6D.5534583C--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:41:12 -0500
From: "Dennis Groome V" <dgroome5@petrocom.com>
Subject: Re: IN> How do people play demons?

This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to 
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
properly handle MIME multipart messages.

- --=_0A5CE9AA.5435593D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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- -----Original Message-----
From: emmanuel francois <emmanuel@direct.ca>
To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:11 AM
Subject: IN> How do people play demons?


>
>Amo Nympham wrote
>
>>well, I've finally got a Shedite player, so looks like I'm off to start
>>creating some NPCs for it to possess...bleh
>
>i was wondering, when reading the rules - how do people play demons?

in my troupe, very well.  it's a great place to unleash all your repressed
depravity without harming anyone.

i
>mean, i can see the GM doing it, but a PC?  Having disturbed, callous,
>ruthless, or even borderline sociopathic characters, who are still human
>(or as appropriate for the game world), i can follow, but who would =
_enjoy_
>playing an actual Fiend from the Pit?


it's all part of being able to do whatever you want and not be really
responsible for your actions.

>
>We're not talking 'bad boy rebel with long hair and a leather jacket' =
type
>of 'evil,' we're talking Sevant of Hell.  A being who's entire purpose in
>life (sort of - demons are pretty selfish) is to degrade, corrupt, =
defile,
>and destroy all they touch.  (And Shedim... *shudder*)


well, look at people in real life.  we all have a little of the Pit in us.
i know girls (hell, i've dated girls) that can't help but destroy a
relationship.  as humans we use and abuse each otehr every day.  it's not
really that far of a stretch to play a demon.  you just make it the =
foremost
thing on your mind.  now playing a selfless angel in today's world...

>
>To me, this seems like trying to play a child molester or something.  In
>detail.  Every step of the way.  Casually explaining every move to the GM
>while other players listen.  Real, true, full, perverse EVIL.  i don't =
see
>how i could possibly enjoy that.


i had a shedite turn people into child molestors, pedophiles, rapists,
serial killers...all manner of evils.  imagine as a kid trying to have a
"gross out contest."  now do it as an adult.


one last bit, it helps that in my games, the brightness and contrast are =
all
the way down.


- - Dennis H. Groome V
Assistant IS Manager
Petroleum Communications, Inc.


- --=_0A5CE9AA.5435593D
Content-Type: text/x-vcard
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Dennis Groome V.vcf"

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:Groome V, Dennis
TEL;WORK:(504) 469-3283
ORG:;IS
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:dgroome5@petrocom.com
N:Groome V;Dennis
TITLE:Assistant IS Manager
X-GWUSERID:dgroome5
END:VCARD


- --=_0A5CE9AA.5435593D--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:02:49 +0100
From: "Neil" <Captainparanoia@lunacy.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: IN> malakim resonance

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEFB95.2A5401C0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi people

I'm new to this list and have a question about the Malakim's resonance. =
I apologise if this has been done to death before: How do you play =
resonance? I mean, in the book it says 'judge on own moral standards' or =
something like that. Does a murderer necessarily think killing someone =
is dishonourable? I would argue that many probably don't even think =
about it, it's either a spur of the moment thing or they see it simply =
see it as nothing of consequence (crushing an ant underfoot). Certainly =
neither honourable or dishonourable in their eyes.
I have a player playing a Malakite of Dominic and he has been having =
real problems reconciling the two. In the end I ruled that he gets the =
honourable/dishonourable actions as perceived by the Symphony (the Ten =
Commandments basically) BUT also he gets the subjects personal acts of =
honour/dishonour. The first ALWAYS superseding the second.
From the mailing list it seems that other people are doing similar =
things.


thanks for your help=20


Neil.=20

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#c8e0d8>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi people</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I'm new to this list and have a =
question about=20
the Malakim's resonance. I apologise if this has been done to death =
before: How=20
do you play resonance? I mean, in the book it says 'judge on own moral=20
standards' or something like that. Does a murderer necessarily think =
killing=20
someone is dishonourable? I would argue that many probably don't even =
think=20
about it, it's either a spur of the moment thing or they see it simply =
see it as=20
nothing of consequence (crushing an ant underfoot). Certainly neither =
honourable=20
or dishonourable in their eyes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have a player playing a Malakite =
of Dominic=20
and he has been having real problems reconciling the two. In the end I =
ruled=20
that he gets the honourable/dishonourable actions as perceived by the =
Symphony=20
(the Ten Commandments basically) BUT also he gets the subjects personal =
acts of=20
honour/dishonour. The first ALWAYS superseding the second.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>From the mailing list it seems that =
other people=20
are doing similar things.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>thanks for your =
help&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Neil.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEFB95.2A5401C0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:51:37 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and Violence

At 11:40 PM -0400 9/9/99, David Edelstein wrote:
>>>>> What happens if they shout
>> at a human a whole bunch and threaten him with dire consequences?
>
>That's okay. That's close enough to "diplomacy" in some circles... Of
>course, if you do it inappropriately, someone will notice and want to
>ask you some questions eventually.<<<
>
>I'd also say at a certain point, a screaming, bullying Mercurian crosses
>the line into dissonance. Emotional & verbal abuse can be nearly as violent
>as physical abuse.

True, though if it happened _occasionally_, and either to attack Soldiers
of Hell or to defend innocent humans, it would probably be okay, though
the Mercurian might feel a bit ill afterwards. (And if it happened often,
yeah, it's not a good sign. It should get a triad, even if not dissonance.
It's certainly a sign of a tendency towards hostility...)

>Raising your voice or making a few threats shouldn't be dissonant, but a
>Mercurian who acts like the drill sergeant in "Full Metal Jacket" is
>another story...

Well, I haven't seen FMJ, so I may be off, but a Mercurian who somehow
had a _Role_ as a drill sergeant might be okay, especially if he were
from War, Stone, or the Sword. One from Flowers, on the other hand, might 
well be a mass of Discord in a few hours if he tried such a thing. Or
an Impudite.

I suppose some of it might also relate to how much the Mercurian _believed_
what he said, and how much he was maliciously trying to _harm_ the human
in question. Definitely a gray area, and hard to make blanket judgments on.


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:51:39 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: RE: IN> Malakim

At 9:12 AM +0000 9/10/99, Leath Sheales wrote:
>Beth wrote:
> 
>> It's actually one of the passages I am likely to alter slightly in any revised 
>> editions. In the beginning, I'm happily willing to assume that he didn't
>> register as "evil" to passing Malakim. After things got rolling, they would
>> have been _forbidden_ to tamper with humanity by offing such a public figure.
>> They'd have had to content themselves with picking off the demons who flocked
>> to the banner... if said demons didn't have too strong a Role to get at them
>> without exposing themselves to mundanes.
>
>Ever consider all those failed assassination attempts against Hitler? 
>Perhaps they were conducted by angels trying to 'buck the system' and 
>remove this human. 

Oh, definitely potential there -- this is mostly the sort of thing
that would be laid down to keep the BIG guys from waltzing in. I mean,
even demonic guards probably would have a hard time if, say, David and
Laurence decided to express a little disagreement with would-be-world-
dictators.

Or to keep someone from sending in a very well equipped strike team --
if it's just a few Virtues at a time...


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:51:00 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> malakim resonance

At 2:02 PM +0100 9/10/99, Neil wrote:
(In some kind of funky format... Ah, MIME. People! Everyone! Make sure 
that your emailer is set to TEXT ONLY. No attachments, no MIME format, 
no HTML format! There are a LOT of people on this list who see MIME and 
HTML in the raw, and it is not pretty! In particular, the DIGEST is copied
"in the raw"!

Microsoft emailers and browser/emailers are particularly prone to sending
stuff in MIME or HTML. There are at least _two_ preference toggles you have 
to turn off to get plain text. However, that is a small price to pay to 
avoid having the Djinn Princess of List Admin feed your toes to her Shedim.)

>I'm new to this list and have a question about the Malakim's resonance. 

>I apologise if this has been done to death before: How do you play resonance?

The GM determines if the target thought something was honorable or 
dishonorable when he did it. Or both. (I know a PC who thought betraying
a Habbalite's plans was both honorable and dishonorable at the same time...)

Also note that at check digits 5 and 6, you, the GM, get to decide this
on an _absolute_ scale -- or at least on the _Malakite's_ scale.

Of course, if someone's most _honorable_ act is something the Malakite
thinks is disgusting (killing a child, etc.), he can probably guess something
is up and start following the person around... Or if the dishonorable thing
is "saving a child" -- which is even more telling, since the honorable side
of things may have hidden reasons.

You may want to sit down with your player and talk about whether he wants
to have a little amount of uncertainty in what it _means_ to pick up that
someone thinks a particular action is dis/honorable, or not.


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:51:38 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Rules Questions.

At 5:34 PM -0500 9/9/99, Ben Glickler wrote:
>My editor is possessed by a cynical Kyriotate of Networks, methinks.
>
>> Hey, it's just Trauma. You pick up the demon's vessel and say, "Yeah,
>> go ahead. He goes into Trauma -- if he's not in Heaven already yet --
>> and then you go into Trauma. And we know what demons do to each other
>> in Trauma."
>
> Yes, it's just Trauma, but when the meaty Malakite stands to lose
> 15 character points worth of body, he might not be so noble, even
> if he doesn't suffer Trauma. =)

Well, that depends on if you _charge_ 15 points for a replacement
vessel. In the forthcoming Game Master's Guide (plug, plug), there
is a discussion of when the GM wants to charge for new vessels, and 
when it may be better for his game to give a replacement one free.
Malakim, in particular, are often expected to go through a lot of
vessels -- though not _stupidly_.

[Song of Possession, resisting]
> In the very first section of the rules regarding resisting things, I am
> fairly sure it said you should use the check digit to decide who wins.
> Alas, I am at work, and cannot quote such things.

Yes, I know -- but it doesn't _always_ work that way. <grumblegrumble>
For instance, you have to beat a Habbalite's check digit to resist, but
you only need to make Will versus a Balseraph, and check digit doesn't
matter.

The Liber Canticorum, p. 15, discusses this -- resistance vs. negation.
Resistance requires the higher check digit, negation requires only a
successful roll -- Possession is a "negation" Song. (It specificially
says, 'The victim may attempt a Will roll in his defense to negate the
Song.')

>> (Malakim.)
>
> Argh!  And I've even been retyping "Shedites" every time I write it
> just to stop myself!  One day I'll cure my Itimitis.

<grin>

>> acceptable way to deal with demons.  A laid back Malakite, such as
>Creation
>> or Destiny might spawn, might be fine if they were following around a
>demon
>> and keeping it from doing evil (and working on psyching it into
>redemption!),
>
> I *like* this.  I *really* like this.  You rule. :)

<bow> Thank you.

>Another problem I have is the definition of evil the Malakim go by.  The
>words
> "evil" and "demon" seem interchangeable in their mind-set, but a demon is
> not necessarily evil -- they are defined as selfish.  So Malakim needn't
>thwap
> every demon they find, and if they do, they'd get into trouble.

Malakim can _generally_ assume that any demon they find is at least 90%
likely to fall under their definition of "Things I should thwap or I'll
get dissonant."  But it's quite true that some demons are less evil, and
more tolerable. Some may even be twistedly honorable themselves, or they
don't like to hurt humans, or any number of abnormalities.  And not all
Malakim _do_ equate "evil" with "demon."  Most Malakim of, say, Judgment
or the Sword are likely to do this, but ones of Destiny, Creation, maybe
the Wind, and Flowers are far less likely to automatically assume such.

>> Um. Does that help?
>
> Greatly.  My own personal choice was to go with the spirit of their code of
> honor -- if they seemed to be honoring the spirit of the rules, the letter
>of the
> law wouldn't bite 'em in the butt with disonnance later.

I'd actually be a little stricter than that with their _given_ oaths. True,
the PC shouldn't be rules-lawyering his oaths, but neither should he be
saying, "I can get away with breaking this one because I'm really following
the spirit of it. Really." That way lies madness for the GM.

Look at Laurence's Dissonance Conditions... At the least, they should be
feeling kind of icky if they're bending the letter _or_ spirit of an 
actual given oath. (Breaking promises to demons -- unless you're sworn
not to break promises as an oath -- isn't the same thing. O:> )

>> It did. O:>
>
> Curses!  How can I excorcise it?

Make sure that it's set to wrap at about 75 columns? (Or hit a hard
carriage return around then -- it's a skill that I've had to learn,
since turning Word-wrap on in Eudora sometimes makes transferring 
text files annoying.)

- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:05:57 -0500
From: "Prodigal" <Prodigal@ticnet.com>
Subject: IN> Getting rid of MIME/HTML

From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
>
> Microsoft emailers and browser/emailers are particularly prone to sending
> stuff in MIME or HTML. There are at least _two_ preference toggles you
have
> to turn off to get plain text.

It's actually a little easier than that, with Outlook Express at least.

In the Options window, there's an option to reply to messages in the format
that they were sent in, which takes care of it, IF you are replying to a
plain text message.

If you're replying to a message in HTML or posting one that is not a reply,
just click Format, and choose Plain Text. It's what I do, to make sure I
don't violate the spirit of the list (or since this is about IN, would that
be "the celestial ofthe list" instead?)

> However, that is a small price to pay to
> avoid having the Djinn Princess of List Admin feed your toes to her
Shedim.)

Not to mention good sense. ;)

Azzur, Malakim of the Sword
In Service to Protection
Whose Oaths include "I will not post HTML messages to the list."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:09:25 PDT
From: "Janet Anderson" <dorigen@hotmail.com>
Subject: IN> My theory on Hitler

I do not agree with the theory in the *Angelic Player's Guide* that Malakim 
have to go by what the person they resonate thinks is evil.  If that were 
so, then they would be helpless to deal with (for example) rapists who don't 
think they did anything wrong because their victim deserved it, racists who 
think they are performing "ethnic cleansing" or "saving the future of the 
white race," or, well, Hitler.

My theory:  Hitler was a Servitor of Malphas, and is now an *extremely* 
powerful Word-bound demon (Duke?) with the Word of Genocide.  Reading the 
news these days, I foresee that he will be the next new Prince.

The angels did their best to get him during World War II, and probably 
succeeded at least once, but if you're a powerful demon with multiple 
vessels, you won't go into Trauma; if you have all the henchmen 
(henchdemons?) and Soldiers you can use because Malphas thinks you're the 
best thing to happen in eons, and other Princes owe you because you are 
helping to produce Tethers for them (Saminga, Baal, Beleth, Kronos), you are 
*not* going to be easy to kill ...

There's a good story by M. R. James, the title of which escapes me at the 
moment, in which soldiers in the trenches, about to be defeated, are saved 
by a regiment or so of ghostly archers from Crecy, standing beside them 
shooting yard-long arrows of flame.  James, in one of his introductions, 
says that this story, which he invented, had already become part of World 
War I folklore, with the French archers transmuted in some versions to 
angels.  I think it highly likely that in *In Nomine* World War II 
(especially), similar things may have taken place -- I can see World War II 
as one of those occasions when the War almost broke out into the open.

Janet Anderson





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" <pkitty@IntNet.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Disneyworld (was How do people play demons?)

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote:

> 	Heh. Heh-heh.  Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!  <choke, gasp for breath>  ;)
> 
> 	Something that occurs to me is that DisneyWorld/Land
> have so MANY people going through them that there must be a
> significant celestial presence.  In a bright campaign, Blandine,
> Christopher, and Marc at the very least.  It's certainly big
> enough to support several tethers.

Exactly... we ran that exact same "adventure" there (I mentioned it on the
list earlier - it was the one where the Habbalite 111'd and sought out an
angel to redeem). The Cinderella tower thingee in the middle of the
place, where he met the angel, was a tether to Bethanel (Edelstein's
creation, AA of Cities) - with all the monitors enstuph watching the park.
Christopher had the largest tether - that whole section of the park with
the rides for the little kids (jeez, it's been so long since I've been
there I can't remember the name), Blandine had one in Tomorrowland, and
Marc's is the front gate (of course)...


Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian
								Meow!

"People love to be told what to do. They love not doing what they've been
told even more. They love it the most when they are made to do it anyway."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:34:41 +0200
From: nufo42@andromeda.tectel.com.mx (koplosw)
Subject: IN> eLectronic mktg & software....an Internet Goldmine!

  ELECTRONIC MARKETING 

 Cyberpreneurs are increasing tremendously with the boom of the
 digital/electronic frontier. Electronic marketing is a proven method
 with a global market. It is more advantageous than conventional
 methods and the risk is minimal. The prospects are millions.

 SUCCESSFUL ITEMS FOUND IN CYBERSPACE

 The existence of the Information Superhighway narrows down to one
 important factor; information. It's been proven repeatedly that the
 ideal cyberspace products are are books, software, computer related
 materials, information, and services.

 PRODUCTION COSTS

 Regardless of the product/service, most experts agree you must be
 able to produce the product to keep your product acquisition costs
 DOWN. Because of the digital era and the medium created by the
 internet, many products can now be produced in-house, such as
 software, information, electronic books, internet services, etc...

 AN UNMATCHED SOLUTION & OPPORTUNITY : 

 Now, you can access the CSM 2000 Package; software, information,
 internet services, and books. This is designed for entrepreneurs,
 existing businesses, and those starting a business of their own.

 The digital era has begun....it's not too late....but don't wait !

 Fax your:  name, email address, and phone#  to  781-240-7796

 A representative will contact you a.s.a.p

 The digital era has begun....it's not too late....but don't wait !
          
=11703CAA42892l

------------------------------

End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1326
********************************

The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated.
All rights reserved.