From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 15 15:00:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14374 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:00:26 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA15032 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:53:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:53:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199909151953.OAA15032@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1330 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1330 In this digest: IN> in-nomine questions IN> The Hitler thing again Re: IN> in-nomine questions Re: IN> Questions galore . . . Re: IN> Questions galore . . . Re: IN> The Hitler thing again Re: IN> in-nomine questions Re: IN> in-nomine questions Re: IN> Questions galore . . . Re: IN> Hitler Re: IN> Hitler Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1328 IN> Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Speaking of noise... IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Speaking of noise... IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... Re: IN> Speaking of noise... IN> A Word... Re: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... Re: IN> A Word... IN> Re: IN- Questions galore . . . Re: IN> Questions galore . . . Re: IN> A Word... Re: IN> Persons of Historical Note (Was: Malakim / Hitler) IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Speaking of noise... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:35:18 -0700 From: "Jace" Subject: IN> in-nomine questions I have a "rules" questions. 1. Let's say I have a big machinegun, and their are a bunch of targets (demons, or whatever) standing close together. How do I spray down the whole group? Or is it impossible in this system? Just curious, Thanks Jace - ---------- I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian. - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:45:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> The Hitler thing again Threshhold question here. Can anyone tell us just who put the Hitler thing in the Malakim's writeup, and why? David Edelstein says that it was added after he'd written what he thought was the final draft of that section. So...? FWIW, I agree with Dave that it doesn't seem to fit (or work) very well. The first time I read that, I remember being quite startled... it doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the chapter, _and_ it didn't make sense when the stuff around it did. > The funny thing about the everpresent Hitler flamewar with the average > five month cycle of reappearance is that most of the facts surrounding > what happened in Germany and the German people are appropriately clouded > and forgotten in the superficial attempt to explain away why "Angels > didn't kill Hitler". Hmmm. > Most people forget that the German people freely elected Hitler to office > over the left wing Trotskyists in 1936, who were poised to bring in > Lenin's particular brand of Communism, formulated during the rise of the > Bolsheviks, to the severely depressed German people -- and would that have > been better? Em, I don't want to start a flamewar, nor do I want to take this discussion too far OT. However, there are a few inaccuracies here that cry out for correction. Hitler came to power in '33, not '36. He wasn't "elected over the left wing Trotskyists". Germany had a weak, moderate-to-conservative government at the time, under Hindenburg (the former WWI general, and no one's idea of a Red). The Communists were present, yes, but they were only the fourth or fifth largest party. They weren't in power, and they had no prospect of taking power any time soon. And they were _not_ Trotskyites, for goodness' sakes. "Hitler saved Germany from Communism" is _Hitler's_ line. Nobody but the Nazis believed it then, and nobody (except for a few neo-Nazis) believes it today. > Most people forget that the German people, at the time of the assention of > the Partei, couldn't buy bread with a wheelbarrow of money. Confusing two separate problems here. The wheelbarrow-of-money thing was in 1922-3, the hyperinflation of the early Weimar period. When Hitler came to power, this was already ten years past. Germany was suffering from the Depression in 1933, but this was a problem of unemployment, not inflation. > Most people forget that the Protestant Germans were deeply afraid of the > Jews -- deeply, desperately afraid. ? Nonsense. German anti-semitism had been around for a long time, but up until the early '30s it did _not_ dominate the country's politics or society. Russian and Polish anti-semitism was older and (up until then) harsher. Germans -- Protestant and Catholic -- were not "deeply, desperately afraid" of the Jews. They were looking for someone to blame for their economic problems and the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty, though. Hitler did a great job of tapping into this, but even so, it took him nearly a decade to move the German people from discrimination to persecution to extermination. > Who really was the demon: Hitler? Goebbels? Goering? General Rommel, > who tried to assasinate Hitler and failed? Rommel didn't try to assassinate Hitler. He appears to have been a quiet accessory at most... he knew about the attempt, which involved several friends of his, and said nothing. But he wasn't an active participant. Further discussion on these topics should probably be taken off-list, unless it has a direct relation to IN. > There's more here going on than just a single man. In the aftermath of > post-Imperial Europe, could there have been any other outcome? IMO, definitely yes, but reasonable men can differ on this particular point. > unlikely: the events were set in motion long before the Partei and they > played out their Passion Play until the bitter end, an end that is still > yet to come. If not Hitler, it would have been another wearing another > name and the same hat. If you want to get into this in more detail, try posting this on soc.history.what-if. It's a fun little NG, and "What if no Hitler?" is a popular perennial. > The more interesting In Nomine questions are to ask: did Heaven support > the enforced economic stability of Imperialistic Eastern Europe, or did it > support the assasination of the Archduke in Sarajevo and the death of the > Czar at the hands of Lenin's men in an effort to further the Industrial > Revolution? Were the Socialist movements, which brought economic and > social upheaval and were carried out by the nameless people who were once > serfs, peasants, and workers, the product of Man or of Deux Ex Machina? IMC it would definitely be human action; I _don't_ think Heaven is behind most of history. > > (Shirer's book, "THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH" is worth reading if > one is interested in the subject of Naziism.) Eh. It's okay, but has some serious flaws -- Shirer had some major axes to grind, and he thought that having lived in Nazi Germany made him an authority on all things relating to it. His earlier book -- "Berlin Diary" -- is much, much better. It's a fascinating account of life in Berlin during the crucial years 1938-40. Shirer got to see the German side of Munich, the outbreak of war, the Fall of France and the Battle of Britain. Very much worth reading. "Rise and Fall" is less good IMO because Shirer forgot that he was a journalist (and a very good one) and tried to become a historian. Anyhow, FWIW, my opinion is that veery few famous historical figures have been Celestials... but a lot of people standing close to them have. Thus, Hitler was human, but Martin Bormann (his personal secretary) or Eva von Braun (his mistress) may not have been. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:11:51 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> in-nomine questions At 12:35 -0400 9/14/99, Jace wrote: >1. Let's say I have a big machinegun, and their are a bunch of targets >(demons, or whatever) standing close together. How do I spray down the >whole group? Or is it impossible in this system? More "undefined" than "impossible", I'd say -- the combat rules are intentionally lightweight. There's some stuff on heavier weapons in the CPG (I think it is), but I don't think it gets up to true military hardware. Personally, I'd steal the rules for this from GURPS, bending them to make them fit. I think that would amount to dividing the Power of the attack among the targets, who'd have to be within a relatively narrow arc of fire (say 15 degrees, maybe), and reducing the accuracy a lot. I'd compute the Power based on the rate of fire (which I can look up in GURPS books), and the typical Power of single-shot rifles, which I think are covered in the main book. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:25:06 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Questions galore . . . Attributions lost: >Shane wrote: > >> >> > 6) Suppose a celestial lights a match and sets a building on fire. > I'm >> > assuming the resulting disturbance is based on the damage ultimately >caused >> > by the entire building going up, yes? >> >> Yes. *Noisy*. :) >> >> PS. a query pops to mind - how Loud would the Symphonic Disturbance of >a >> celestial setting off a nuclear bomb be? :) > When this came up the last time, the response was "Are there celestials on Alpha Centauri?" Of course that was a 1MT puppy in New York's Central Park, so... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:28:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Questions galore . . . MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > >> PS. a query pops to mind - how Loud would the > >> Symphonic Disturbance of a celestial setting off a nuclear > >> bomb be? :) > When this came up the last time, the response was "Are there > celestials on Alpha Centauri?" Which prompts the query, "Does Disturbance propagate at the speed of light, or instantaneously? (Or at some other speed?)" If instantaneously, instantaneous in what frame? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:46:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Hitler thing again At 12:45 PM -0400 9/14/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >Threshhold question here. Can anyone tell us just who put the Hitler >thing in the Malakim's writeup, and why? One of the other staffers, who felt that the honor thing needed a more concrete example, IIRC. IMO, his in-email explanation of what he wanted to add worked better than what actually got in there. Eh. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:43:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> in-nomine questions At 9:35 AM -0700 9/14/99, Jace wrote: >I have a "rules" questions. > >1. Let's say I have a big machinegun, and their are a bunch of targets >(demons, or whatever) standing close together. How do I spray down the >whole group? Or is it impossible in this system? A: The GM wings it. B: The GM checks p. 116 of the Corporeal Player's Guide. Choosing targets -- probably let it be the check digit, or the check digit times two or something. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:12:10 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> in-nomine questions I would have you roll to hit as normal, they would each roll to dodge. rather simple. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" - -----Original Message----- From: Jace To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:47 AM Subject: IN> in-nomine questions >I have a "rules" questions. > >1. Let's say I have a big machinegun, and their are a bunch of targets >(demons, or whatever) standing close together. How do I spray down the >whole group? Or is it impossible in this system? > >Just curious, >Thanks >Jace > > > >---------- >I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian. >---------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Questions galore . . . On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > > > >> PS. a query pops to mind - how Loud would the > > >> Symphonic Disturbance of a celestial setting off a nuclear > > >> bomb be? :) > > > When this came up the last time, the response was "Are there > > celestials on Alpha Centauri?" > > Which prompts the query, "Does Disturbance propagate at the > speed of light, or instantaneously?" Instantaneously. The Symphony *is*, everywhere, all at once. Or, if you absolutely must use physics, it's using the quantum-mechanical "hotline" that allows "passion at a distance" and suchlike. > If instantaneously, instantaneous in what frame? God's, of course. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:28:27 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Hitler Emily Dresner wrote: > >The funny thing about the everpresent Hitler flamewar with the average >five month cycle of reappearance is that most of the facts surrounding >what happened in Germany and the German people are appropriately clouded >and forgotten in the superficial attempt to explain away why "Angels >didn't kill Hitler". > >Most people forget that the German people freely elected Hitler to office >over the left wing Trotskyists in 1936, who were poised to bring in >Lenin's particular brand of Communism, formulated during the rise of the >Bolsheviks, to the severely depressed German people -- and would that have >been better? The National Socialists and the Communists did their damnedest to recruit each others' thugs -- it wouldn't have been at all uncommon for an SA member to have been a Nazi-converted-to-Marxist-converted- back-to-Nazi. They both drew on the same pool of unemployed angry young men, and the bloodiest riots of the Weimar republic were brawls between the Nazis and the Communists (the Nazi party anthem, the "Horst Wessel Lied", was a song about a thug who got beaten to death in one of those street brawls). It's sometimes fashionable to claim that Hitler never won a majority and only came to power through political machinations, but the fact is that the people rejected democracy. If you add the Communist total to the Nazi vote, more than half the population voted for parties that explicitly advocated eliminating the democratic system and replacing it with a totalitarian government. (The Communists weren't the watered-down kind you find nowadays, either -- they preached bloody violent revolution, and the behest of Moscow they refused to form a coalition government with the Social Democrats. The theory was that once that rightist Nazi forces came to power, their tyranny would induce popular revolution; "worse is better" in Lenin's famous phrase. It wasn't until 1934, after the Enabling Act was passed, that Moscow agreed to permit a "Popular Front" of all the leftist parties. That was too late, though.) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:06:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hitler Just watch it, y'all. More IN content needed or take it to email... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:17:39 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1328 At 16:41 14/09/99 , you wrote: >Most people forget that the German people freely elected Hitler to office >over the left wing Trotskyists in 1936, who were poised to bring in I assume you meant 1933? Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:21:47 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: IN> Speaking of noise... I really like seeing all of you guys responding to these questions, cause now I got one... IMG...I've got a player that is an Impudite of Saminga...lucky him, he doesn't get dissonance for killing humans, and he can take any Essence in them from the body after death. So, he wants to blow up a high school in Austin, Tx. Here's my questions: 1) According to my math, if he managed to kill 500 kids, the disturbance would be heard pretty much round the world, right? 2) I'm really really tempted to make this an act that breaks the truce in Austin..I think I'm justified, cause the rest of the celestials in Austin are trying to keep a fairly low profile..with the exception of Furfur. What do you guys think? 3)I really don't think this is tether creating material...but if it does, I'm thinking that it would be shared between Malphas and Saminga. I mean, if he does break the truce, Malphas will chuckle for years. And the tragedy of 500 innocents dying ought to bolster Saminga's power as well. Again, any ideas? Thanks, Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:27:28 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of noise... >I really like seeing all of you guys responding to these questions, cause >now I got one... > >IMG...I've got a player that is an Impudite of Saminga...lucky him, he >doesn't get dissonance for killing humans, and he can take any Essence in >them from the body after death. > >So, he wants to blow up a high school in Austin, Tx. > >Here's my questions: > >1) According to my math, if he managed to kill 500 kids, the disturbance >would be heard pretty much round the world, right? > Out of curiosity is he trying to make it this loud? Because if not he can convince some human dupe to do it and avoid drawing enough attention to bring several squads of Malakim down on him while still causing lots of trouble for humanity and the Austin Celestials. >2) I'm really really tempted to make this an act that breaks the truce in >Austin..I think I'm justified, cause the rest of the celestials in Austin >are trying to keep a fairly low profile..with the exception of Furfur. What >do you guys think? Oh yeah this'll wreak havok with the truce, assuming he manages to get it all set up without them figuring it out. It is possible the Austin community will try to remain friendly, but it would prove difficult. >3)I really don't think this is tether creating material...but if it does, >I'm thinking that it would be shared between Malphas and Saminga. I mean, >if he does break the truce, Malphas will chuckle for years. And the tragedy >of 500 innocents dying ought to bolster Saminga's power as well. Again, any >ideas? If the truce breaks a tether to Malphas would be likely. I don't know if Saminga would get it for a demon of his doing it, it would be close, but I think that a human convinced to do it would make a bigger impression on the Symphony with Saminga's word. If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:38:47 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... >Out of curiosity is he trying to make it this loud? > You know, I really have no idea...I'll ask. Thanks! Wade, Habbalit of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:46:12 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of noise... From: Wade Hursman > > 1) According to my math, if he managed to kill 500 kids, the disturbance > would be heard pretty much round the world, right? Not necessaily around the world, but it should cover most of North and Central america, at the very least. And celestials on all sides will probably wind up exploiting the disturbance to be more blatant in their actions until the ripples die down, because that's the sort of thing that will overshadow almost any disturbance a single angel could create. This might also give the angel of Stone with the nuke the bright idea that it's time to use it, though... > 2) I'm really really tempted to make this an act that breaks the truce in > Austin..I think I'm justified, cause the rest of the celestials in Austin > are trying to keep a fairly low profile..with the exception of Furfur. What > do you guys think? IMO, Austin just isn't "hardcore" enough for Furfur's taste. He'd be more likely to go to New York or LA instead. That being said, I agree with you completely on the truce shattering like a ceramic crashtest dummy as soon as that bomb goes off. And who knows? Furfur might decide to drop by again. > 3)I really don't think this is tether creating material...but if it does, > I'm thinking that it would be shared between Malphas and Saminga. I mean, > if he does break the truce, Malphas will chuckle for years. And the tragedy > of 500 innocents dying ought to bolster Saminga's power as well. Again, any > ideas? If you want to be really sick, make it a tether to Saminga with Druiel as its senechal. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:56:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of noise... At 4:21 PM -0500 9/14/99, Wade Hursman wrote: >IMG...I've got a player that is an Impudite of Saminga... >So, he wants to blow up a high school in Austin, Tx. > >Here's my questions: > >1) According to my math, if he managed to kill 500 kids, the disturbance >would be heard pretty much round the world, right? I wouldn't be surprised. Are you using sticky disturbance? >2) I'm really really tempted to make this an act that breaks the truce in >Austin..I think I'm justified, cause the rest of the celestials in Austin >are trying to keep a fairly low profile..with the exception of Furfur. What >do you guys think? Doh!! You BET this breaks the truce! Especially with the Christopherans around. Or, at least, this guy is targeted... (Demons who are really fond of the truce might cooperate in hunting him down!) >3)I really don't think this is tether creating material... Very unlikely -- a celestial is creating the incident. Tethers form from natural events or human-only events, 99.9999999999999999999999% of the time. (Gabriel was responsible for a couple, but only in the sense that the humans reacted to her presence.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:58:45 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of noise... >IMG...I've got a player that is an Impudite of Saminga...lucky him, he >doesn't get dissonance for killing humans, and he can take any Essence in >them from the body after death. > >So, he wants to blow up a high school in Austin, Tx. Ah, you're playing _Night Music_? Has Furfur held his concert yet? >2) I'm really really tempted to make this an act that breaks the truce in >Austin..I think I'm justified, cause the rest of the celestials in Austin >are trying to keep a fairly low profile..with the exception of Furfur. What >do you guys think? Rock and roll. It could even attract Superior attention, which should make Furfur's little shindig (if it hasn't happened yet) that much more interesting. >3)I really don't think this is tether creating material Firm agreement; remember, Tethers are supposed to happen because of _human_ actions (though Celestials can influence those). Extra fun bonus points: has it occurred to your Impudite that he could try framing a high school kid or kids? Or, better yet, actually get one to do it? The latter option would eliminate the noise... and either one would raise the interesting possibility of copycat stuff a la Columbine, which should make his boss just gurgle with delight. Even if it doesn't happen, it'll definitely raise popular awareness of Death. Double secret bonus points: get Druiel involved. There's *nothing* like framing a Seraph to make a demon look WAY cool. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:13:02 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of noise... - -----Original Message----- From: Wade Hursman To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 5:00 PM Subject: IN> Speaking of noise... >1) According to my math, if he managed to kill 500 kids, the disturbance >would be heard pretty much round the world, right? that's about 5000 points of disturbance from death alone, not even starting to count collateral damage. but bombs usually don't kill that many. in fact, the one against the World Trade Center killed under 100 people IIRC (i could be wrong on taht one. anyone got a number on average bomb death?) > >2) I'm really really tempted to make this an act that breaks the truce in >Austin..I think I'm justified, cause the rest of the celestials in Austin >are trying to keep a fairly low profile..with the exception of Furfur. What >do you guys think? either it breaks the truce, or everyone, including the Old Guy, is going to hunt him down and play football with his head. > >3)I really don't think this is tether creating material...but if it does, >I'm thinking that it would be shared between Malphas and Saminga. I mean, >if he does break the truce, Malphas will chuckle for years. And the tragedy >of 500 innocents dying ought to bolster Saminga's power as well. Again, any >ideas? > first off, Tethers are inexplicable for the most part. no one know what really makes a Tether happen (it's left to the GM what qualifies). but usually actions started by Celestials don't qualify. Celestial manipulation tends to impede Tether formation since Tethers are more a product of human action. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:20:21 PDT From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... Greetings, >So, he wants to blow up a high school in Austin, Tx. >Here's my questions: >1) According to my math, if he managed to kill 500 kids, the disturbance >would be heard pretty much round the world, right? Probably, you're not even counting property damage. You might want to consider a rule I have in my game, although it isn't one that's common knowledge to the PCs. Optional Rule: Large Disturbances All disturbances echor after they happen as covered in IN rules. Really large disturbances can be heard _before_ they go off. This is an extremely chaotic and unpredictable effect, based roughly at what the GM believes the disturbance would be. Example: An Impudite of Saminga blows up a school full of kids creating a disturbance of 5000. This starts off as a disturbance of 1 "somewhere in Austin", some 5000 minutes (3.5 days) before the event, and then gradually builds, while localizing to the target school and the instigator. Why have this rule? Answer, to make it difficult for celestials to make major disturbances, which increases the role of humans in the war. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:47:06 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... >Optional Rule: Large Disturbances >All disturbances echor after they happen as covered in IN >rules. Really large disturbances can be heard _before_ they >go off. This is an extremely chaotic and unpredictable effect, >based roughly at what the GM believes the disturbance would >be. > >Example: An Impudite of Saminga blows up a school full >of kids creating a disturbance of 5000. This starts off as >a disturbance of 1 "somewhere in Austin", some 5000 minutes >(3.5 days) before the event, and then gradually builds, while >localizing to the target school and the instigator. I like this rule, I like it a lot. Especially if the disturbance has a different sound (to those who roll high enough to detect it) than normal disturbance. I would think that the disturbance would start somehwere in the USA first, and gradually localize to those who will be directly effected (after passing through those who will be vaguelly effected) and then centered around those who will be blown to bits and the future generator of the disturbance. Also I would think the celestial causing the disturbance might start getting weirded out by it (and might decided against it, what would that sound like?). I've had a simular rule where really really really large disturbance past or future would have echo events. Where if something simular happened (whether celestial or corporeal in origionation) the disturbance would become audiable. Echos from the future can't be avoided however and sound like 'distorted' disturbance. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:06:09 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... In regards to the disturbance created by the death of 500 students, what are "sticky" disturbances? I'm not familiar with the term. Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:18:36 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of noise... At 4:27 PM -0600 9/14/99, Tim Groth wrote: > >If the truce breaks a tether to Malphas would be likely. I don't know if >Saminga would get it for a demon of his doing it, it would be close, but I >think that a human convinced to do it would make a bigger impression on the >Symphony with Saminga's word. > I don't think Malphas could get it -- the celestials' truce and the severing of it can't form a Tether, only *human* minds can. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:31:45 -0500 From: Lance Hunter Subject: IN> A Word... Allright, maybe I haven't been paying attention, or maybe it's in a book I don't have yet, but the word 'Philosophy' doesn't seem to be taken. It's such a primary word that you have to wonder why it hasn't been assigned. Just wondering 'cause in my current campaign there's a Shedim who's currently infesting various professors at the UT philosophy department, and she's getting ideas. - -- Lance Hunter "I knew in my heart by pure logic that any man who calls himself a religious leader and owns more than one suit is a hustler as long as there is someone in the world who has no suit at all." -Lenny Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:36:47 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Speaking of noise... At 23:06 -0400 9/14/99, Wade Hursman wrote: >In regards to the disturbance created by the death of 500 students, what are >"sticky" disturbances? I'm not familiar with the term. It's Elizabeth's term for disturbances that can be localized to the causing celestial, rather than the location of the event, or when both are possible. It's an option in the disturbance rules, but has no official shorthand name. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:07:00 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> A Word... At 11:31 PM -0500 9/14/99, Lance Hunter wrote: >Allright, maybe I haven't been paying attention, or maybe it's in a book I >don't have yet, but the word 'Philosophy' doesn't seem to be taken. As far as I know, I haven't seen it either. So the Word is probably open at this time. >It's such a primary word that you have to wonder why it hasn't been assigned. Who knows. Maybe it was at one point, and it is no longer the case. >Just wondering 'cause in my current campaign there's a Shedim who's ^^^^^^ (Shedite) >currently infesting various professors at the UT philosophy department, and >she's getting ideas. Those darn wacky Shedim! (I'll take my nitpicking Essence while I'm at it.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:29:28 PDT From: "Micheal Knight" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Questions galore . . . >>PS. a query pops to mind - how Loud would the Symphonic Disturbance of a >>celestial setting off a nuclear bomb be? :) >It'd probably be heard out at Pluto.... This reminds me, as a tangent to the "IN in Star Wars" post that wandered across the list a while back, one of my players and I actually calculated the distance the desctruction of Alderaan's disturbance might have travelled. I think it came out shy of a light year. I'll see if I can't find the figures again. Micheal, Rules Elemental ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:51:29 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Questions galore . . . MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > es. *Noisy*. :) > >> > >> PS. a query pops to mind - how Loud would the Symphonic Disturbance of > >a > >> celestial setting off a nuclear bomb be? :) > > > When this came up the last time, the response was "Are there celestials on > Alpha Centauri?" Now -there's- a question. Is it just Earth, or are the Superiors out there workin' all sapient life in the Universe and the -servitors- are just planet-specific? Considering their relatively low numbers compared to humans, it bears thinking about... - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:10:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A Word... Lance Hunter wrote: "Allright, maybe I haven't been paying attention, or maybe it's in a book I don't have yet, but the word 'Philosophy' doesn't seem to be taken. It's such a primary word that you have to wonder why it hasn't been assigned. Just wondering 'cause in my current campaign there's a Shedim who's currently infesting various professors at the UT philosophy department, and she's getting ideas." And who does this Shedite serve? Given what I've seen of philosophy in academia, Factions would be appropriate. On the heavenly side, the late Raphael, Archangel of Knowledge, would have been the natural Superior for Philosophy. Nowadays, I guess it would go under Destiny (which has taken over a lot of Knowledge facets) or maybe Revelation (Archangel Litheroy). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:15:43 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Persons of Historical Note (Was: Malakim / Hitler) I was kind of musing about this, so I thought I'd jot down some thoughts. a) However much they might want to, I don't think celestials can (reliably) push any largescale social engineering agenda onto humanity, if humanity really isn't interested. If they could, then you'd have to assume that pretty much all of human history had been engineered by a mixture of heaven/ hell/ marches, and the only input humans really got was in the gaps between them. Playable, but I don't buy it. b) Might well be true that a figurehead would have replaced Hitler -- in fact the Axis might have had a better chance at winning WW2 without him. But would another leader have pursued Hitler's racial purity obsession with the same zeal? Quite possibly not. Although Fascists/ Nationalists do typically have little qualms on campaigning against immigration etc. I also doubt the Fascists would have got into power without Hitler. Fascism historically has required people to unite unswervingly behind a strong leader (cf. Mussolini, Oswald Moseley.. and I can't think of any others off the top of my head). c) A more interesting question (to my mind) is whether Britain would have capitulated/ been invaded if Churchill had been killed before assuming power. This is much more likely -- he really was a figure who stood head and shoulders above other local politicians of the time, and there isn't anyone obvious who could have filled his shoes and taken Britain into the war so early (which I still think is one of the few totally GOOD things the UK did during the 20th century). d) I think that superiors tend to prefer mortal society to be as stable as possible (with Janus as an honorable exception). It's easier for them to predict, easier to manipulate, easier to work around. As soon as everything goes haywire, then the way the War is going becomes anyone's guess. Suddenly mortal pawns who have been carefully prepared for years are taken out and shot by mortal political enemies. You can lose a LOT very quickly. This is why they really need those mortal soldiers and junior angels out in the corporeal world to give them the heads up quickly when the winds are changing. Huge events like the Russian Revolution and WW1, which blow up more quickly than anyone outside would have guessed (and how many more failed revolutions, failed assassinations, and wars of posturing are there than the big ones which make history text books?), are almost always going to catch everyone by surprise. Sure, I think there will be celestials who wanted all those things to happen -- and those with delusions of grandeur like to claim that they knew all along that they were about to make big waves -- but no-one (barring maybe Yves/ Kronos) can understand all the complexities of the situation well enough to completely predict what the outcome will be. e) I also wouldn't assume that the failed assassination attempts were by celestials. Let's face it, celestials are so far and away more powerful than humans that a celestial assassin would not have failed, unless the target was either very lucky or had insanely good protection. It'd make a lot of sense for Kronos to go on total overkill to protect these pivotal figures -- that seems to be how he operates. f) So why didn't the Malakim kill Hitler/ Stalin? Why does God let bad things happen to good people? I have no idea. People have been arguing this for years ;) jo (Personally, instead of asking 'why didn't the angels stop Hitler?', I'd rather ask 'Why didn't the Catholic Church ever censer him?') ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:51:46 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Speaking of noise... Thanks for the info guys! You've all been a great help! Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1330 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.