From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Sep 19 20:11:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA05955 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:11:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA27717 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:59:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:59:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199909200059.TAA27717@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1334 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, September 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1334 In this digest: IN> PREMIUM CABLE TV ....No Extra Charge Re: IN> PREMIUM CABLE TV ....No Extra Charge IN> Something Jordi-ish, kinda semi... IN> Numinous Corpus IN> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:41:48 -0400 Re: IN> PREMIUM CABLE TV ....No Extra Charge Re: IN> Numinous Corpus IN> Andrealpheus Re: IN> Andrealpheus IN> Re Andrealpheus Re: IN> Re Andrealpheus IN> Primordial Angels Re: IN> Re Andrealpheus IN> Haagenti and the Ultimate Joke... IN> Re: Words RE: IN> In Nomine Character Generator ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:02:17 -0100 From: ceqa50@xxlink.nl (Fine Tuning) Subject: IN> PREMIUM CABLE TV ....No Extra Charge This is really COOL! ENHANCE Your Cable TV! EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00 ! GET THE MOST out of your cable TV by using this SIMPLE "Fine Tuning" device! YOU WILL HAVE GREAT RESULTS! YOU will be enjoying enhanced cable viewing in just a few days! This Cable TV FINE TUNING DEVICE will make your viewing experince MUCH MORE ENJOYABLE! There is one problem though. It may accidentally receive stations that NORMALLY are offered by your cable provider for an additional fee. This would include: BOX OFFICE HIT MOVIES! PREMIUM SPORTING EVENTS! SPECIAL INTEREST PROGRAMING! And even ADULT ENTERTAINMENT! You can EASILY assemble a cable fine tuner in less than 30 minutes! You have probably seen many advertisments for similar plans......... BUT OURS are BETTER! We have compared it to all the others and have actually IMPROVED the quality and SIMPLIFIED the design !!! ** We even include PHOTOS! ** OUR PLANS ARE BETTER! We have NEW, EASY TO READ,EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00! We have seen them advertised for as much as $29.00 and you have to wait weeks to receive them! WHAT THE OTHERS SAY IS TRUE! Parts are available at "The TV HUT" or any electronics store. Trademark rights do not allow us to use a national electronics retail chains' name but there is one in your town! Call and ask them BEFORE you order! They are very familiar with these plans! You will need these easy to obtain parts : 270-235 mini box 271-1325 2.2k ohm resistor 278-212 chasis connectors RG59 coaxial cable #12 copper wire Variable capacitor They may have to special order the variable capacitor, But WHY WAIT for a special order? WE have them! WE have secured a supply of the capacitors directly from the manufacturer and We WILL include one with your plans for an ADDITIONAL $10.00 only! All you need now is the EASY TO ASSEMBLE plans to show you how to assemble this educational device in 30 MINUTES! It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these plans for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES only. See first hand and LEARN how this SIMPLE circuitry works! If you intend to use these plans for any other purpose DO NOT ORDER them. IT'S FUN TO BUILD! We're sure you'll enjoy this project! This is a unique opportunity for hobbiest of ANY skill level to learn simple circuitry! Learn how easy "Fine Tuning" is! $ 7.00 for plans only $10.00 for variable capacitor only $17.00 for The easy to assemble plans and one variable capacitor! Please send check or money order payable to: FINE TUNING PMB #287 99 Park Ave. New York, N.Y. 10016 WE pay postage and handling! Please allow 10 days for delivery. Thank You && \/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:30:02 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> PREMIUM CABLE TV ....No Extra Charge Beth, You gotta do something about these Spammers Regards, Bradley Paranial, Who another RPG Lists whorsipps the one who is called "El Bastardo" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:45:05 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: IN> Something Jordi-ish, kinda semi... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------94D146B426262CC0B6123800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is something from one of my newsgroups. I liked it and saved it. I have clipped a lot of the credits and stuff to protect the innocent and the not-so innocent, but I do have the posters permission to pass this along. take care and enjoy the weekend, Tom Timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- "Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in Hell!" --"Strange Blood" "A Wolfrider's Reflection", various artist - --------------94D146B426262CC0B6123800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="74747874"; name="The True Gates of Heaven 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Unknown Document Content-Disposition: inline; filename="The True Gates of Heaven 1" Bahumat wrote: >That's a very nice story. Thank-you for sharing it with us. I was deeply >moved by the original poem version of 'Rainbow Bridge'. You are welcome... here is another story from my archive... but in a lighter vein! ______________________________________________________________________ A man and his dog were walking along a road. The man was enjoying the scenery, when it suddenly occurred to him that he was dead. He remembered dying, and that the dog had been dead for years. He wondered where the road was leading them. After a while they came to a high, white stone wall along one side of the road. It looked like fine marble. At the top of a long hill it was broken by a tall arch that glowed in the sunlight. When he was standing before it he saw a magnificent gate in the arch that looked like mother of pearl, and the street that led to the gate looked like pure gold. He and the dog walked toward the gate, and as he got closer he saw a man at a desk to one side. When he was close enough he called out, "Excuse me, where are we?" "This is Heaven, sir," the man answered. "Wow! Would you happen to have some water?" the man asked. "Right up." The man gestured, and the gate began to open. "Can my dog come in too?" the traveler asked. "I'm sorry, sir, but we don't accept pets." The man thought a moment and then turned back toward the road and continued the way he had been going. After another long walk, and at the top of another long hill, he came to a dirt road which led through a farm gate that looked as if it had never been closed. There was no fence. As he approached the gate he saw a man inside, leaning against a tree and reading a book. "Excuse me" he called to the reader, "Do you have any water?" "Yeah, sure, there's a pump over there." The man pointed to a place that couldn't be seen from outside the gate. "Come on in." "How about for my friend here?" the traveler gestured to the dog. "There should be a bowl by the pump." They went through the gate and, sure enough, there was an old fashioned hand pump with a bowl beside it. The traveler filled the bowl and took a long drink himself. Then he gave some to the dog. When they were full, he and the dog walked back toward the man, who was standing by then, waiting for them. "What do you call this place?" the traveler asked. "This is heaven," was the answer. "Well, that's confusing," the traveler said. "The man down the road said that was Heaven, too?" "Oh, you mean the place with the gold street and pearly gates? Nope. That's Hell." "Doesn't it make you mad for them to use your name like that?" "No. I can see how you might think so, but we're just happy that they screen out the kind of folks who if given a choice, would leave their companion animals behind!" - --------------94D146B426262CC0B6123800-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:09:53 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Numinous Corpus I remember reading in the Liber Canticorum that Numinous Corpus count as variations of eachother for the purpose of CD bonuses. However I am unable to find it right now. Does anyone rememberif its in there or have I lost my mind? Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:24:25 -0500 From: "Jason Terlecki" Subject: IN> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:41:48 -0400 Could the attunement True Shape of Flame be used like the Numinous Corpous: Flame??? Both can wrap your body in fire and the attunement could do a jet flame, no? Maybe use Corporeal forces to equal the level of the song? Jason would be angel of cookies ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:57:04 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> PREMIUM CABLE TV ....No Extra Charge At 20:30 -0400 9/18/99, paranial@creighton.edu wrote: >Beth, You gotta do something about these Spammers Dropping them in Sheol for a few millenia sounds about right.... Unfortunately, there aren't any easy fixes on the mailing lists. I guess I'll have to dig through the Majordomo docs and see if there's something clever we can do. Meanwhile, reporting them to their ISPs does some good, at least. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:02:40 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Numinous Corpus At 21:09 -0400 9/18/99, Tim Groth wrote: > I remember reading in the Liber Canticorum that Numinous Corpus >count as variations of eachother for the purpose of CD bonuses. However I >am unable to find it right now. Not quite. They *do* count when trying to qualify as a Virtuoso in Numinous Corpus. p. 24. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:03:25 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: IN> Andrealpheus The subject of Andrealpheus has been bumping around in my mind for a while now. As written, he's a completely two-dimensional character, just standing around, looking pretty, and saying "Sex is fun!" in an empty-headed manner. Searching through the books, it mentions in the IPG that prior to the Fall, he was the Archangel of Love. Now, the word of Love nicely warps to Lust, but why would the holder of the word Love take part in the Rebellion against God? Surely, Andre's love for God would keep him loyal. Now, the official explanation (whenever the expanded write-up of him comes out) might go along the lines of Lucifer promising to love only him, but that explanation seems very weak to me. Less weak, but not really satisfactory IMO, would be Andre's desire to love humans to the fullest extent (which God wouldn't let him do) led him to join the Rebellion. I feel that a much better explanation would be that Andre was the first angel to be Pushed. Andre's entire being was tied up in love, and when war broke out in Heaven, it shattered his mind. He lashed out at all those around him and was thought to be part of Lucifer's Rebellion, so he was thrown out of Heaven with the true Rebels. (For some reason, I picture David throwing him out of Heaven, and Novalis trying desperately to grab him, but she just misses his hand as he Falls. This could be an additional explanation why she really dislikes David, because I also picture Andrealpheus, Eli, and Novalis as the "Triad of Joy" during the pre-Fall days…) Lucifer was undoubtedly very surprised to see the Fallen Andrealpheus. As Andre was an Archangel pre-Fall, I can see Lucifer not questioning his good fortune over Heaven's mistake. After all, at the time, Andrealpheus was (and probably still is) the most powerful Impudite in Hell. He was probably still insane, but found that if he stopped feeling love, he could repress his insanity. Since he can't feel any love without going crazy, he's going to make sure that his Servitors aren't going to either, hence his dissonance conditions. (Tell me, am I the only one who thinks Andre as a Djinn makes a lot more sense?) He may be able to Redeem if anyone ever cured this (now passive) insanity, though I'd hazard a guess that only Novalis could pull it off, and even then, it would be a long process, and it's still a bit iffy. So, why do the other Princes put up with an insane Impudite? Simple. Andre was behind the Outcasting of the Grigori. The description of the Grigori in the rulebook makes it sound like they fell prey to Lust. Even though Andre and his servants can't feel love doesn't mean that they can't evoke it in others. To have been the driving force in having an entire Choir of angels removed from Heaven gives Andrealpheus an achievement on the level of Belial's being the only living Demon Prince (other than Lucifer, who isn't a Prince per se) to have killed an Archangel single-handedly. More important, Andre's servitors have traditionally been Hell's main source of information in the War. The things a man (or woman) will say to impress a lover, or murmur in his (or her) sleep have given Lust quite a large store of information. Recently, this task has been performed more and more by servitors of Theft, Technology, or the Media, but Lust still gets information that the others can't. A judicious use of blackmail also gives Lust resources that the others don't have access to. Looking over the servitor attunements in the rulebook, why does Andrealpheus give his servitors the Kiss of Death? It makes no sense for a Superior to have a servitor attunement that if it uses would give it a point of dissonance. I'd replace it with (my first attempt at making attunements, be kind): Talking in Your Sleep This power costs 1 essence and requires a Will roll. If successful, the target of the power, which is a sleeping person, says something in their sleep. The importance of this muttering depends on the check digit of the roll. 1- Something not particularly important or secret to the individual, something the individual would be willing to tell in normal conversation. Example: the name of his dog. 2- Something a little more personal, something that you'd have to convince the individual to tell you. Example: what he really feels about his wife spending $700 on a shopping binge. 3- Something the individual would only reveal to a very good friend. Example: what he wanted to tell his boss when the boss canceled his project. 4- Something important to the individual that he wouldn't tell anyone. Example: the individual's credit card number. 5- Something personal that the individual doesn't share. Example: the individual's computer password. 6- Something incredibly secret that couldn't be pried out of the individual with hot iron-brands. Examples: the details of his embezzling scheme, the launch codes for tactical nuclear weapons. That's my take on Andrealpheus. If anyone has any comments, I'd be glad to hear them. I'd like to thank Emily Dresner and Genevieve Cogman for their version of Andre in Holy War and Fiat Justita, respectively. They were what got me thinking about him. S. Flanigan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:45:43 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Andrealpheus Interesting stuff, I think that Andre may have felt that it wasn't fair that God seemed to love humanity more. But I like your idea of him being pushed out by David. I like your attunement, I would think it would make more sense if it was shifted so its either activated while the individual having sex with the subject or it is activated during sex and that's what they say during it (which could lead to funny situations, but anyway). Also I think the attunement should be resisted with a will roll, reverse the CD chart for this purpose. I just suggest this because most attunements do not require rolls and having them resistable seems more the pattern. I really can see David tossing Andre out of heaven, while Andre is stunned as he sees David's cherub nature slip away to a Malakite's. Thrashing all the way down he probably didn't actually fall until he snapped out of his rage and realized where he was, and what had happened (imaging being Love and then being cast out of heaven by someone who was supposidly your friend and fellow). Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:39:23 -0400 From: "Eddie" Subject: IN> Re Andrealpheus S. Flanigan wrote: Searching through the books, it mentions in the IPG that prior to the Fall, he was the Archangel of Love. Now, the word of Love nicely warps to Lust, but why would the holder of the word Love take part in the Rebellion against God? Surely, Andre's love for God would keep him loyal. I do not feel that the word in opposition of Love is Lust. He would have more then likely to have gotten the word Hate. How he Came up with Lust I'm waiting to see how IN handles this Eddie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:04:21 -0500 From: "Trent" Subject: Re: IN> Re Andrealpheus - ----- Original Message ----- From: Eddie To: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 2:39 AM Subject: IN> Re Andrealpheus > > I do not feel that the word in opposition of Love is Lust. He would have > more then likely to have gotten the word Hate. How he Came up with Lust I'm > waiting to see how IN handles this Well... I don't really think that the demon princes were really going for a total opposite of thier word when they fell. It semes more that they just try to emphasize a diffrent, more demonic, aspect of their word hence love to lust, laughter to dark humor, faith to fanaticism, and fear to nighmares. I think that this has to do with the fact that once a celestral is bound to a word he becomes the word in every fiber of their being, so that even if Lucifer had offered the word of hate to Andre he probably would have been turned down. Trent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:33:01 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Primordial Angels >>>The order helps, but it brings up my main complant about In-nomine canon, Lucifer not being before Michael (not to mention in his write up as an Archangel Michael is called the most powerful celestial body and mind).<<< Actually, it was Baal who Fell primarily out of resentment towards the treatment of Michael, his "older sibling." Michael is older than Lucifer because there is a scriptural tradition of Michael being the first Archangel. (Yves kind of messes with that, but then, Yves isn't exactly an Archangel.) At the time of the Fall, Michael was more powerful than Lucifer, though probably not so much more powerful that it wasn't a tough fight. Whether or not he is still more powerful than Lucifer is questionable. It can be argued that Lucifer has gained tremendously in power since then. OTOH, it can also be argued that just because Lucifer has learned many, many tricks and can do things that Michael can't, doesn't necessarily mean he is yet a match for Michael in sheer, raw power. >>>Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling<<< May I suggest you consult with the Angel of Punctuation? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:14:05 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Re Andrealpheus >Well... I don't really think that the demon princes were really going for a >total opposite of thier word when they fell. It semes more that they just >try to emphasize a diffrent, more demonic, aspect of their word hence love >to lust, laughter to dark humor, faith to fanaticism, and fear to nighmares. >I think that this has to do with the fact that once a celestral is bound to >a word he becomes the word in every fiber of their being, so that even if >Lucifer had offered the word of hate to Andre he probably would have been >turned down. This provokes an interesting thought. Lucifer was the Archangel of Light, what ever new Word he took for himself won't be the oppisite of Light but some demonic variation on it. Its possible he took no new Word, or that he even kept Light as his Word and now interprets it differently. He still is refered to as the Lightbringer, however from the opening section of the IPG its seems that he has an anti-Light stance (simular to the way Andre feels about emotional connection). It is possible that he has trancended his old Word, or that he somehow lost connection with it in all regards. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:38:50 -0600 From: "ParadoxDruid" Subject: IN> Haagenti and the Ultimate Joke... I was talking about gluttony and its various connotations last night, when this strange thought came to me... Kobal's Ultimate Joke is happening: he plans to make Haagenti replace Lucifer! Gluttony is interpreted by the buffonish Haagenti (my favorite superior, BTW) as food.... but it's not. It's so much more.... It's the urge best expressed as "I want more." Wanting more than you need, a pure expression of selfishness. His word, Gluttony, could overtake so many of the others it's scary.... but he's too stupid to realize it. IFAIK, Kobal acts like a mentor to Haagenti, right? Can't you see Kobal coming up with the "Consume" attunement, which shows how far reaching Haagenti's sphere of power is, and convincing Haagenti to base his dissonance condition around it? Haagenti doesn't realize it yet, but the rulers of Sloth and Oblivion were only the beginning-- Kobal's ultimate joke is Haagenti eating (figuratively, literally, or both) Lucifer and taking over hell.... What do you think? I know in IMC, Haagenti's going to realize this.... and he's not going to be happy. ;-) ParadoxDruid ParadoxPhilosopher@worldnet.att.net The Druid's Circle: http://home.att.net/~paradoxphilosopher/ "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge" -Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:56:33 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Words I'd put the Word of Mathematics under Knowledge, and now Lightning. I don't think Purity could deal with a concept like, say, imaginary numbers (too heretical, "What do these mortals think that they can create like God?"). However, the Word of Mathematicians goes firmly under Factions. Major universities have departments of Mathematics, Applied Mathematics, Statistics, and Bio-Statistics, and the faculty of each try to minimize contact with the others as much as possible. The demon of Mathematicians is allied with the demon of Coffee, who makes sure that mathematicians keep going when they'd otherwise fall down. S. Flanigan Demon of Taking Characters Apart Messing Around With Them and Putting Them Back Together in New Forms ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:48:07 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine Character Generator > I don't know how useful that would be. What I'm tired of, in >designing >NPCs (or even using pregenerated ones), is the constant flipping through >the >book to look up skill X and song Y, to figure out which would be useful for >a given character to have, or if player Z decides to roll against it, what >it's likely to do. Having this *built into* the character generator is a >big time-saver for me, frankly. Particularly one that can customize the >display based on the supplements I'm using. Hear Hear! Can I suggest two versions - one without any of the ability writeups (ie only the names of abilities, not the details), which is freeware, and the other _with_ all the writeups which is sold by SJ Games. I realise there wouldn't be a lot of money in selling such a game aid, but if it were sold from warehouse 23 and possibly emailed to the purchaser, reproduction and freight costs would be almost zero. The program could be stamped with the purchaser's name to discourage piracy. The only supplement really at risk by such a program is the Liber Canticorum, IMHO. All the other supplements (even the player guides) have large amount of other material that wouldn't need appear in the program. The Canticorum _would_ have large chunks of it copied into the program. However, you could always omit the restricted and secret songs, I guess, which would leave a reason to buy the canticorum. Perhaps the program could come free with the canticorum to avoid people buying the program instead of the canticorum. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1334 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.