From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Sep 27 18:59:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28840 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:59:01 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA03213 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:55:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:55:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199909272355.SAA03213@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1342 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, September 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1342 In this digest: Re: IN> Malakim Re: IN> White-wolf's WoD IN> New House System for Combat (Long) IN> Malakim Re: IN> Malakim IN> Re: IN> Posting spoilers on the lists IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer RE: IN> [ADMIN] Stopping spammers IN> Stopping Spammers Re: IN> Stopping Spammers RE: IN> [ADMIN] Stopping spammers Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer IN> [ADMIN] Getting rid of MIME/HTML Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> Gabriel's Madness Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:07:01 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Malakim At 15:01 -0400 9/26/99, Azrael wrote: > but this is beside the point Malakim don't have any innate abiltiy that makes them more suited to combat than any other choir 'cept the Mercurians (can't hurt people phah!). Lack of Trauma and the unrelenting nature of Malakim toward evil are the two things that put Malakim in the #1 spot of the "Angels Demons Don't Want to Meet" list. Killing a Malakite corporeally may result in him showing up again almost instantly, in a spare vessel, with a new set of hit points. And a Malakite will *never* ignore a demon, and will rarely tolerate one's presence (unless the demon is clearly close to redemption). Other Choirs can get along with demons, when it suits their purposes, but not Malakim. And a demon might be able to talk his way out of a tight spot involving hostile angels (typically by pointing them at someone else); this isn't a very viable tactic with the black-wings. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:16:57 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> White-wolf's WoD At 16:49 -0400 9/26/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >Only the *frequency* of success has to do with skill/song/resonance level . >. . (am I wrong?) Yes and no. At higher skill and attribute levels, celestials' target numbers often go over 12, giving them CD bonuses. So skill *does* affect degree of success, to some extent. It is a bit granular, though. In GURPS IN, we abandoned the CD mechanic (since it has no equivalent in GURPS), and used the degree of success in the skill roll to replace the CD, pretty much everywhere. >I know that for low-level humans (thus low-level characteristics) steps have >been taken in the CPG, but . . . this is to correct a flaw in the system >rather than to correct the system. I believe the system was never really intended to handle humans and similarly low-powered beings very well -- this is a common scale problem in RPGs that span a wide range of power levels. Converting IN to GURPS resulted in the opposite effect -- celestials are relatively weaker than in IN, compared to humans. This happened because GURPS is humanocentric, and a strict interpretation of attribute conversion would have resulted in celestials pretty much succeeding at die rolls *all the time*, with the exception of critical failures. So I put them at a significantly higher level than humans, but not so high as IN would suggest. Typical celestials in GURPS IN are roughly on a par with medium-powerful superheros, if you cross the genre boundaries. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:36:20 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) >>>I also recommend using the same system for Mind and Soul Hits (with appropriate changes to Forces and characteristics).<<< Celestial and ethereal combat works quite a bit differently than corporeal combat (and there are also no "vessel levels" to add Mind or Soul hits, though you can use the optional Spiritual or Mental Toughness advantages from the GMG). Since combat is not on the same scale, you won't necessarily want to use the same system. >>>SKILLS, AUTO-SUCCESSES AND DEFAULTS All combat skills work like normal skills, without the Forces bonus used previously. This keeps things consistent, and reduces the number of TNs over 12.<<< This is also an optional rule from the GMG, but remember the problem with it: it makes humans (and anyone deficient in Corporeal attributes) even more incompetent in combat. >>>EXAMPLE: The average person has Strength/4, Agility/4 and Precision/4.<<< That's an "average tough human optimized for combat." One thing I have noticed using the new rules for Body hits in my own game is that Stunning becomes much more common. In fact, nearly any good hit will probably Stun the target. It can be very frustrating when you are the first one to take a hit: "You're stunned." (Next round: "He hits you again. You're stunned again." And that's pretty much how the fight will go...) So you might want to consider requiring a blow to do 50% of the character's Body hits in one blow in order to stun. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:36:21 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Malakim >>>I know that they resonante for HONOR not for Combat. But in the Book its all blah blah blah COMBAT MONSTER.....well that's the impression that I get.<<< And your point is? Being a combat monster doesn't require a combat resonance. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:41:18 +0100 From: "Neil" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim sorry to be anuisance-someone has subscribed me to this list and then we've moved to seperate houses+ACE- could you please desubscribe this address. thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:41:59 +0100 From: "Emma" Subject: IN> Re: please get lost - -----Original Message----- From: thespy2@eastmail.com To: websites@ibm.net Date: 25 September 1999 21:29 >rosswind.net, ina@csps.com, ina@dutch-caribbean.net, ina@elainecase.com, ina@flanet.com, ina@grgig.net, ina@gurlmail.com, ina@havana.com, ina@k2nesoft.com, ina@kansascity.com, ina@lastpage.com, inab@lobo.net, inacar@lcc.net, inacolumn@archiecomics.com, inada@fci-ny.com, inadani@land-net.com, inadco@home.com, inadistributor@angelfire.com, inagreement@cranky.com, inahurry@inahurry.net, inaki@bizweb.net, inaki@catinfo.com, inakot@home.com, inal@bcinternet.net, inal@cardet.com, inal@gulftel.com, inal@justaskbo >b.From: >Subject: Opportunity Knocks!!!! >content-length: 2118 >Message-Id: <199909251207786.SM00245@bewellnet> >Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:05:09 -0500 > > > >It's So Simple To Earn $2,000 - $5,000 Per Week Nowadays... > >We're searching for only 10 elite individuals with the work thic >necessary to generate a cash-flow for themselves of $2,000 - 5,000 >per week, and to increase that to over $20,000 per month, in as >little as four to six months. 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The call is FREE, and there is absolutely no obligation, >So what have you got to lose? Call Toll Free 1-888-780-7191 > >P.S. You literally have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to >GET INVOLVED NOW! Don't let this one go by. You have >absolutely nothing to lose! This could be the most fascinating >and profitable business of your life! > >Please, serious inquiries only. > >To be removed from our mailing list please >send an email to web2001@softhome.net and put remove >in the subject. >Thank you > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:27:59 -0400 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: IN> Posting spoilers on the lists OK -- one of my players just joined the list, so I'd just like to ask everyone -- if you're going to be talking about something in a prepublished source that might be considered a spoiler, could you please put *SPOILER* in the list header, or sanitize the reference so it doesn't reveal any information about adventure details? I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure there are others who'd like it as well. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:31:57 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer out of curiosity, has anyone else out there changed Saminga any in their games? personally, I don't like the idea of a buffoon for a Prince, especially with such a powerful word. IMG, Saminga isn't what he appears to be. I play him as actually incredibly smart, only acting stupid to cover his plans. My Saminga has very far reaching plans indeed, and uses his guise as an idiot to keep the other Princes from paying too much attention as he sets up his plan over the millennia. what's his plan? why domination of Hell of course. every living creature does not need to experience Gluttony, or Lust, or the War...but every living creature must die...and each one increases his power over time. of course, the obvious question is: Is Lucifer aware of this act, and does he approve? now what I'm about to say is very, _very_ far from canon, but it's my game and I like it...Lucifer does know about Saminga's act (Saminga doesn't know Lucifer is on to him, however) and doesn't really care. in fact, the Big L wants him to grow in power and take over....because in IMG, Lucifer is teetering on the edge of redemption. Over the millennia he has grown forlorn at the stalemate, and has grown personally beyond the petty envy of humanity that originally caused the Fall. he dares not show any weakness, because he knows the Princes would rise against him in an instant. But the Lightbringer has grown lonely and secretly wishes to return to Heaven and God's Glory. what brought this on? what was the catalyst for such a turn of thought? open up the Liber Castellorum and read the entry for the Devil's Mansion... my players have no idea what's about to take place, and I'm trying to come up with what would happen to the Infernal Lower-archy in Lucifer's absence. I already know that I will have Saminga take control, and I plan on borrowing an idea from someone on the list previously (I believe it's from Dark Victory, IIRC. please let me know who you are, I want to give you credit when my players ask where he came from); Faust (or at least someone claiming to be Faust) is going to use the power of the Uber Grub in Abaddon to give himself the Word of Knowledge (the knowledge man was not meant to know, to be specific). I plan on having Faust and Saminga as Hostile because Faust has stolen the power that Saminga was garnering for his coupe, but since it came unexpectedly he didn't need it and it slipped through his grasp. I also haven't decided what to do about Kobal yet...IMG, Kobal's Secret Mission given to him by God was to return Lucifer to Heaven. but I like his Word of Dark Humor so much I don't think he'll want to return now that the Big Joke is done...after all, he needs something even better to follow up on that one. now this brings me to my last point (for now). what kind of powers would Servitors of Light have... - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:52:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> [ADMIN] Stopping spammers DO NOT use the word(s) u n / s u b s c r i b e in at least the first 10 lines of any post. It bounces. *sigh* (Maybe I should turn that feature off -- it does, however, catch anyone who sends an u n s u b s c r i b e command to the list instead of to the right address.) >From: "Chris Bergstresser" >Subject: RE: IN> [ADMIN] Stopping spammers >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:20:08 -0400 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth McCoy >> >> Bingo. (Hey, love, don' use my admin tag! ) This is a >> problem that, >> last time I discussed putting the list on "you not subscribe, you >> not post" >> status, I got many pitiful pleas to find some other way. > > Can't you have the "approved poster list" be a combination of subscribed >members + a list of alternative approved emails, maintained by the list >moderator? That way if you regularly post from two addresses the second >address will still allow posting, but won't get sent a copy of the list? >Alternately, allowing subscribers to sign up in "regular", "digest", and >"quiet" mode (the last doesn't send any postings) would accomplish the same >thing. > I can't see any real advantages to being able to post to the list without >being subscribed from at least one email. > >-- Chris > - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:54:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Stopping Spammers >From: David Edelstein >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: In Nomine >Subject: Stopping Spammers >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >>>>This is a problem that, last time I discussed putting the list on "you not s u b s c r i b e, you not post" status, I got many pitiful pleas to find some other way.<<< > >Well, here's the thing. People can decide to choose one e-mail address >and stick to it for their In Nomine list-ing. Nobody can decide to not >get spam on the list, except you. > >So a few people will whine pitifully that they want to be able to >download the list at home but post to it from work, or whatever. >Meanwhile, LOTS of people are extremely annoyed at having half the >messages often turn out to be spam. I think there is clearly a choice >between "annoy a few people or annoy a lot of people" here. What's best >for the greatest number of list members? > >-David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:15:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Derek K." Subject: Re: IN> Stopping Spammers On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: - -=>From: David Edelstein - -=>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) - -=>X-Accept-Language: en - -=>MIME-Version: 1.0 - -=>To: In Nomine - -=>Subject: Stopping Spammers - -=>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii - -=>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -=> - -=>>>>This is a problem that, last time I discussed putting the list on - -="you not s u b s c r i b e, you not post" status, I got many pitiful pleas to find some other way.<<< - -=> - -=>Well, here's the thing. People can decide to choose one e-mail address - -=>and stick to it for their In Nomine list-ing. Nobody can decide to not - -=>get spam on the list, except you. - -=> - -=>So a few people will whine pitifully that they want to be able to - -=>download the list at home but post to it from work, or whatever. - -=>Meanwhile, LOTS of people are extremely annoyed at having half the - -=>messages often turn out to be spam. I think there is clearly a choice - -=>between "annoy a few people or annoy a lot of people" here. What's best - -=>for the greatest number of list members? - -=> - -=>-David - -= - -= I'm voting for kill the spam, myself. And my offer of adding in extra emails for people that have a range so they can post from multiple accounts still stands. Ofanite of Networks, in Service to Illuminati Online. Hey, we can't all follow the Arch-angels. Habbalite of Sluggy, in Service to Bun-Bun. Ka-Click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:56:09 -0400 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> [ADMIN] Stopping spammers > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth McCoy > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 2:52 PM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: RE: IN> [ADMIN] Stopping spammers > > > DO NOT use the word(s) u n / s u b s c r i b e in at least the > first 10 lines > of any post. It bounces. *sigh* (Maybe I should turn that feature off -- > it does, however, catch anyone who sends an u n s u b s c r i b e command > to the list instead of to the right address.) > That "feature" needs to go. Maybe not for u n s u b s c r i b e, but frankly, I'm never going to remember the prohibition about s u b s c r i b e. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:04:21 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer >out of curiosity, has anyone else out there changed Saminga any in their >games? personally, I don't like the idea of a buffoon for a Prince, >especially with such a powerful word. I actually keep Saminga as an individual of limited intelligence in most regards, but when it comes to death he is brilliant (he is his Word to a degree that almost no other celestial can be). Though in one campeign I had a powerful servitor of Death seize Saminga's Word and Princehood and at first most of hell was overjoyed, then it realized the new Prince of death was more intelligent, more powerful and more insane. [snip] >now this brings me to my last point (for now). what kind of powers would >Servitors of Light have... Banishing ignorance, dispelling lies/deception, bringing life, destroying evil, lots of stuff. The metaphore of Light is powerful and has many implications, and of course they would be able to generate physical light. I'd imagine a redeemed Lucifer would get along very well with Blandine, Eli, Novalis and Yves. Dominic and Michael would probably not be so welcoming IMO. Also I think the Malakim would be very uncomfortable about having the big bad guy in heaven, even if he was 'redeemed'. Especially because one of the oaths they all share use his name (never be captured by the armies of Lucifer). All Malakim would have to re-swear the oath with Samingas name there instead (or if hell was in lots of flux they would have to re-swear the oath in a more general form). Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:14:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Getting rid of MIME/HTML Since I see that we have some HTML sent to the list recently (and since it crashed my emailer as trying to forward funky HTML/MIME sometimes will, AND since I've got all those nice hormones and all-day morning sickness to deal with...), I will post this so that people will, hopefully, _READ_ it and not cause me to u n s u b s c r i b e them from the list. - --Beth, Djinn Princess of List Admin >From: "Prodigal" >Subject: IN> Getting rid of MIME/HTML >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:05:57 -0500 > >From: Elizabeth McCoy >> >> Microsoft emailers and browser/emailers are particularly prone to sending >> stuff in MIME or HTML. There are at least _two_ preference toggles you >have >> to turn off to get plain text. > >It's actually a little easier than that, with Outlook Express at least. > >In the Options window, there's an option to reply to messages in the format >that they were sent in, which takes care of it, IF you are replying to a >plain text message. > >If you're replying to a message in HTML or posting one that is not a reply, >just click Format, and choose Plain Text. It's what I do, to make sure I >don't violate the spirit of the list (or since this is about IN, would that >be "the celestial ofthe list" instead?) > >> However, that is a small price to pay to >> avoid having the Djinn Princess of List Admin feed your toes to her >Shedim.) > >Not to mention good sense. ;) > >Azzur, Malakim of the Sword >In Service to Protection >Whose Oaths include "I will not post HTML messages to the list." > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:31:31 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Hmm, the entire concept of Lucifer redeeming brings me thoughts to my brain. What's stopping a third alliance of celestials from cropping up? Is it merely the lack of a unifying entity? (Lucifer, God) After all, there is a sizeable minority of celestials who are either Outcast or Renegade. They're viewed as oddities of the binary universe, but maybe it isn't a binary universe after all. Maybe the binary universe is a product of Lucifer's opposition to God. With the likes of Michael, Dominic, and probably oodles upon oodles of Heaven's Host not liking the idea of a redeemed Lightbringer, where does he go? He found Hell, surely he could find himself a realm just as equally suitable to his new disposition. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:40:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Ben Glickler wrote: > What's stopping a third alliance of celestials from cropping up? Along those lines, I wrote up a description of a major split in Hell, the breakaway group calling itself Dis. It's been recorded in the In Nomine Collection, at: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Settings/dis.html Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:13:22 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer I'd actually see Michael as being accepting of a Redeemed Lucifer...as long as he proved himself. After all, Michael would love having a major source of info on their side...and imagine the chaos that would result in Hell if Lucifer redeemed...it could almost end the War then and there. Plus, Michael would have no problems accepting Lucifer back into the fold...for it would be God's Will(and as his current write-up says, Michael obeys GOD). Who wouldn't want the most powerful of their enemies to end up being a powerful ally? For another thought, what would happen to Lucifers power level if he did redeem? I'd feel he'd lose a lot of power...he'd still be powerful, but nowhere near his Fallen level. What would happen to Hell?? Would one of the Princes take over? How would they do so? I know in Rednecks Dark Victory setting Saminga takes over...but that is after Armageddon has come to pass, with Death running rampant over the world. What would happen if Lucifer redeemed now...before Armageddon? Would it be Kronos who would take over? Or perhaps Lilith? Ben Chism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:22:51 -0500 From: Lance Hunter Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer At 02:04 PM 9/27/99 -0600, you wrote: >>out of curiosity, has anyone else out there changed Saminga any in their >>games? personally, I don't like the idea of a buffoon for a Prince, >>especially with such a powerful word. >I actually keep Saminga as an individual of limited intelligence in most >regards, but when it comes to death he is brilliant (he is his Word to a >degree that almost no other celestial can be). Though in one campeign I >had a powerful servitor of Death seize Saminga's Word and Princehood and at >first most of hell was overjoyed, then it realized the new Prince of death >was more intelligent, more powerful and more insane. > >[snip] > > >I'd imagine a redeemed Lucifer would get along very well with Blandine, >Eli, Novalis and Yves. Dominic and Michael would probably not be so >welcoming IMO. Also I think the Malakim would be very uncomfortable about >having the big bad guy in heaven, even if he was 'redeemed'. Especially >because one of the oaths they all share use his name (never be captured by >the armies of Lucifer). All Malakim would have to re-swear the oath with >Samingas name there instead (or if hell was in lots of flux they would have >to re-swear the oath in a more general form). > >Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling > Or even better, Lucifer's redemption causes one or more archangels to fall (since they're so used to us good/him bad.) As far as servitors go... definitly illumination, truth, "beaming" kind of qualities. Also, if Saminga takes over hell, what happens to Andre??? - -- Lance Hunter "I knew in my heart by pure logic that any man who calls himself a religious leader and owns more than one suit is a hustler as long as there is someone in the world who has no suit at all." -Lenny Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:33:43 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer Just remembered something, Lucifer could probably take down Hell on his way out. I mean he can just un-Word all the demons, redeem and Hell has to find a way to give Words out again. I'd imagine this would make Kronos the most likely ruler of Hell in Lucifer's abscence, because Kronos probably knows how to give out infernal Words (personally i think its either a unique power of Lucifers, or at least an obscenly powerful application of the Balseraph resonance). Even if he couldn't just take out the infernal system on his way out he could do lots of damage (like explaining to the angels how Hell works in the first place). It is true that Michael probably would welcome him (thanks for pointing that out), though Lucifer doesn't seem to be the militant type so Michael may be a little irked by this (especially since Lucifer will probably gravitate towards Yves which would infuriate Michael to no end). Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:50:13 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) David Edelstein wrote: > >>>SKILLS, AUTO-SUCCESSES AND DEFAULTS > All combat skills work like normal skills, without the Forces bonus used > previously. This keeps things consistent, and reduces the number of TNs > over 12.<<< > > This is also an optional rule from the GMG, but remember the problem with > it: it makes humans (and anyone deficient in Corporeal attributes) even > more incompetent in combat. True, but I hope that the increased lethality of attacks will (largely) balance things out. > >>>EXAMPLE: The average person has Strength/4, Agility/4 and > Precision/4.<<< > > That's an "average tough human optimized for combat." See, it's very difficult to talk about the 'average' mortal's stats, because there's no nice mathematical average (unless you want to talk about people with 1 2/3 in each Force and 3 1/3 in each characteristic). Someone with only 1 Ethereal Force will be a poor gunman; someone with only 1 Corporeal Force will be a terrible H-H combatant. Since I'd rather not portray the 'average' person as a dullard or a weakling, I usually assume the 'average' mortal to have one Celestial Force. That's what my assumption was above. If I was optimizing (something I'm quite _dreadful_ at), I'd have pumped up Strength and Precision a bit more. > One thing I have noticed using the new rules for Body hits in my own game > is that Stunning becomes much more common. In fact, nearly any good hit > will probably Stun the target. It can be very frustrating when you are the > first one to take a hit: "You're stunned." (Next round: "He hits you again. > You're stunned again." And that's pretty much how the fight will go...) So > you might want to consider requiring a blow to do 50% of the character's > Body hits in one blow in order to stun. Now that's an _excellent_ idea. I think I'll incorporate that into v2.0. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:38:34 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer At 04:22 PM 9/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >>I'd imagine a redeemed Lucifer would get along very well with Blandine, >>Eli, Novalis and Yves. Dominic and Michael would probably not be so >>welcoming IMO. >Or even better, Lucifer's redemption causes one or more archangels to fall >(since they're so used to us good/him bad.) As far as servitors go... >definitly illumination, truth, "beaming" kind of qualities. Also, if >Saminga takes over hell, what happens to Andre??? This reminds me... is Dark Victory still on the INC webpage? Redneck Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:14:20 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer From: Kris Overstreet > > This reminds me... is Dark Victory still on the INC webpage? Last I checked, yes. Are you still running it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:25:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Heinen Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Tim Groth wrote: > Just remembered something, Lucifer could probably take down Hell on his way > out. I mean he can just un-Word all the demons, redeem and Hell has to > find a way to give Words out again. I'd imagine this would make Kronos the > most likely ruler of Hell in Lucifer's abscence, because Kronos probably > knows how to give out infernal Words (personally i think its either a > unique power of Lucifers, or at least an obscenly powerful application of > the Balseraph resonance). Another option: Demons don't have their own symphonies, but cling the the shattered symphony of Lucifer. Its an idea I've been playing with that I'd love comments about to tell me how wrong I am. Unfortunally, I haven't been able to create a decent writeup of what I've been thinking. The nickle tour: As an angel rejects the true symphony of God, their nature searches for something to guide it, a set of rules for which it should reform itself. Most beleive it is a personal nature, but then why would they all be along the same dark reflections of their former selves and not something completly different and personal? Perhaps they do not even have the power to maintain their own symphony. When this new demon reaches out, their hear the counter-melody issued forth from the bowels of hell and reshape themselves to that. Everyone remember an eairler seed, "And the Bands Played on"? When left to "maintain" the sympony, it is this warped one that becomes the standard, sure, there is still the heavenly one for those who redeem to cling to. But it is a long road. However, If the lightbringer returned in this setting, I'm not sure if anyone could pick up, unless Cronus or someone had the strenght of will to set out their own version of the sympony. Perhaps it would lead to a more broken Hell then others. Does this make any sence? - -J ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:53:33 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer > >Another option: Demons don't have their own symphonies, but cling the the >shattered symphony of Lucifer. Its an idea I've been playing with that I'd >love comments about to tell me how wrong I am. Unfortunally, I haven't >been able to create a decent writeup of what I've been thinking. Or at least they are all little bitty blips in his symphony (and he is certainly powerful enough to convince them of another symphony, as he can attune one to their Word, so much so that it alters the demon for ever even if the Word is removed, read the demon of hot sauce thing in the expanded write up of Saminga). >The nickle tour: As an angel rejects the true symphony of God, their >nature searches for something to guide it, a set of rules for which it >should reform itself. Most beleive it is a personal nature, but then why >would they all be along the same dark reflections of their former selves >and not something completly different and personal? Perhaps they do >not even have the power to maintain their own symphony. When this new >demon reaches out, their hear the counter-melody issued forth from the >bowels of hell and reshape themselves to that. Hmmm, I think Canon is that demons do have their own private symphones. But canon is for the weak, and this is a cool idea. [snip] >However, If the lightbringer returned in this setting, I'm not sure if >anyone could pick up, unless Cronus or someone had the strenght of will to >set out their own version of the sympony. Perhaps it would lead to a more >broken Hell then others. > >Does this make any sence? It makes perfect sense, and I'm sure Kronos being a fallen portion of God according to Heaven and Hell would be able to impose a new infernal symphony. Which reminds me, if a superior has all of their band attunements and many more does that mean that Kronos has all the angelic resonances? Maybe he even has all the demonic resonances. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:51:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer At 6:38 AM -0500 9/26/99, Kris Overstreet wrote: >This reminds me... is Dark Victory still on the INC webpage? Yup. Far as I know, it's still in the Settings link... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:42:28 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf Timothy, >Hmmm, I would think that using GURPS as middle ground would be the best >route. Though I've always thought a werewolf crossover would be >interesting, having them worship the Symphony as Gaia, and getting very >irritated at all disturbances believing it to be the Wyrm's work. Neat idea. Not quite certain how Jordi would react to the Garou ripping his Malakites apart for disturbing Garou karma. Could be highly amusing... Or Maybe Jordi's crowd are the only ones who do not attract Garou attention. No matter what rampant Garou should irritate the hell out of Michael and Dominic. On another note Hilary and I did a VtM In Nomine crossover LARP some months back. It was a great laugh. Antedeluvians, Archangels and Demon Princes. Complete paralysis from each group, if one starts fighting the other two may join together. All worked wonderfully until someone poisoned Blandine and an eclectic group decided to try taking out the combined war faction. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:04:56 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Gabriel's Madness Julian, >A player of mine has recently suggested that Gabriel's insanity might >have something to do with the fact that the Archangel of the Waters is >deceased. An imbalance in the traditional four elements causing such >instability in water's opposite. Hm, possibly. To a point we have been near here before. According the the Kaballah Gabriel is more attuned to water than fire - another possible explanation. On the other hand the cute chick in a red dress is so neat I just cannot dispute the concept. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:05:11 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer At 05:14 PM 9/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >From: Kris Overstreet >> >> This reminds me... is Dark Victory still on the INC webpage? > >Last I checked, yes. Are you still running it? Haven't had the time to run any campaigns, and can't find any IN players offline anyhow. As for new material, I haven't had any inspiration and am too busy working on articles for White Lightning Productions and other sources to give it much attention unless something grabs me. Redneck Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:30:58 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer as always, this is IMG. if and when I do this, it will be an instantaneous thing. my idea for it right now is that somehow heaven and hell find out about the Devil's Mansion. both sides plan to exploit this to their advantage (yes, a very low contrast game). during the ensuing conflict, someone (I haven't decided yet) throws an attack at Lucifer, and Madeleine Frenau throws herself in front of it to saver her love. of course, this completely eradicates Madeleine; Lucifer is so overcome by this complete act of selflessness for him that it pushes him over the edge and he in an instant goes Bright. I think it makes for quite a climactic and cinematic scene, and I certainly hope my players will appreciate it. as for Saminga's rise to power, IMG he's been steadily and secretly increasing his power base over the millennia and is now claiming the Granite Throne. Andrealphus will probably go Renegade at this. and Kronos...in my opinion it is not his Fate nor his Destiny to control Hell. - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:34:48 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Kris Overstreet To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 5:01 PM Subject: Re: IN> Saminga and the Lightbringer >At 04:22 PM 9/27/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>Or even better, Lucifer's redemption causes one or more archangels to fall >>(since they're so used to us good/him bad.) As far as servitors go... >>definitly illumination, truth, "beaming" kind of qualities. Also, if >>Saminga takes over hell, what happens to Andre??? i've been toying with Dominic being secretly a Balseraph for quite some time now, hiding beneath his dark robes. if i do decide to take this course then the Light of Lucifer will reveal Dominics dark secret forcing him to flee. as for Andre, check out my previous post. > >This reminds me... is Dark Victory still on the INC webpage? > yes it is. I've read about half of it and I must say it's quite a good job, I like it a lot. I like it so much that I'll probably use Lucifer's stats from there as the basis for the Lightbringer. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1342 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.