From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 29 16:35:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20470 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:35:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA32282 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:33:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:33:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199909292133.QAA32282@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1345 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1345 In this digest: re: Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Children of the Grigori (was: Re: IN> White Wolf) Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> White Wolf IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD re: Re: IN> White Wolf re: Re: IN> White Wolf re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Band Sigils [wasRe: Re: IN> White Wolf] IN> In Nomine Over the Edge Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> Nybbas picture (was Lucifer Repentant) Re: IN> White Wolf IN> Choir/Band symbols (was White Wolf) Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> Prayer IN> Grig, Sigils, and Art (Re: White Wolf) IN> Zadkiel? and URL Re: IN> Malakim IN> Stopping Spammers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Sep 99 09:34:34 -0500 From: erisraven@crosswinds.net Subject: re: Re: IN> White Wolf Greetings, all. I just joined the list yesterday, and am intrigued that you're already discussing this subject. I am at the moment gamemastering a crossover game. However, it necessarily has limited scope within IN. Only certain aspects of the games mesh at all, and those that don't I just don't include. No one says *everything* has to work. In this universe things somewhat resemble a universe I saw on one of the websites I found, where the rise of rationality has hurt the celestials as a whole. The question of mages has not yet arisen, but I'm viewing it something like the situation in the Primal Order books. The power that celestials use is not the same as that of mages, and always takes precedence. It also means that magics of the other power groups in WoD are ineffective against the magics from the Symphony. > IN kinda kills the whole WoD idea o the Triat since IN posits, > you know, -God- at the top of the heap. Actually, IMHO, it posits he's at the top of the heap *now*. Depending on the interpretations you place on things, and your view of creation, you can view that however you will. (***disclaimer: I'm only familiar with two of the IN sourcebooks, so some details I don't have. I can't find the books in my area easily, and the only shop that carries anything SJ keeps very short hours that are during my workday. I think I'm going to have to break down and go mail-order.) My universe isn't exactly canon, but running IN in White Wolf necessitates that. Their views of deity are somewhere between limited and non-existent. As for the Triat, you should remember that the Triat are personifications of universal forces. (As least, from everything I've read, which for WW is most of it.) To take that discussion any farther involves taking a direct position on the 'Correct' view of the universe's creation. The decision you make affects what can be incorporated. In my universe, certain of the etherials have more power that others, since the Garou still revere them. Totems are powerful Ethereals, etc. If anyone wants to discuss the ideas further I welcome it. However, I've jumped in with both feet on a hot topic on a list I just joined, and am now going to duck the Celestial crossfire..... 0:) Eris Corax of chaos Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:48:49 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) > BTW, anyone ever notice how we'll all spell out 'Asmodeus' and 'Haagenti' >but never seem to spell out 'Andrealphus'? We always use 'Andre', like we're >pals or something...Makes you think, no? I personally always refer to the lightbringer as Lucy but that's just me. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:02:11 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Children of the Grigori (was: Re: IN> White Wolf) not exactly. the Corporeal Player's Guide has information on them as NPCs and as PCs. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" >BTW are the children of the grigori CDaU? >Ben > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:09:54 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf From: Walter Milliken > >At 15:59 -0400 9/28/99, Ben Aldred wrote: > >BTW are the children of the grigori CDaU?> >No -- they'll have real canon at some point. Some of the mechanics was >swiped (and nailed down) for inclusion in GURPS In Nomine. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:12:31 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf From: Walter Milliken > >At 15:59 -0400 9/28/99, Ben Aldred wrote: > >BTW are the children of the grigori CDaU?> >No -- they'll have real canon at some point. Some of the mechanics was >swiped (and nailed down) for inclusion in GURPS In Nomine. Given that IN canon on the Grigori won't be around for awhile, what's the likelihood of you guys writing them up in IN terms either on the mailing list, or in a Pyramid article? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed at the thought that I'd need to shell out L20 (or however much it costs) for a supplement for a game I don't play, just to get the one page of rules (which I would have to attempt to translate) for a game that I do! jo (Sorry if this got sent twice) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:16:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD It's GURPS vs. WoD in a no-holds barred steel cage battle to the death! That's right folks -- get your tickets now, because it's coming Sunday SUNDAY SUNDAY to the Pontaic Silverdome! Monster trucks! Vampires! Reign of Steel! Get your tickets at Ticketmaster now. ... in my quest for the perfect solution to the "In Nomine rulez suk" problem, I've tinkered around with a few systems, and nothing has met my specifications yet, so I continue to use, yes, In Nomine for In Nomine. I know it's a very controversial stance, and therefore I shall be flogged. :) Ahhh... martyrdom. Such an In Nomine theme! After deep and thoughtful analysis of five or six minutes, this is what I've been able to discern from the inevitable GURPS vs WoD argument. Here are the two arguments as I see them: 1. GURPS: It's a great system! Everyone should use it! It's flexible and detailed and has tons of supplements that you can use to include in your campaign. And, don't forget, supplement X is really awesome and you need to include it in your campaign! I love GURPS! 2. World of Darkness: It's a great system! Everyone should use it! It's flexible and detailed and has tons of supplements that you can use to include in your campaign. And, don't forget, supplement X is really awesome and you need to include it in your campaign! I love World of Darkness! It's like Christianity vs. Islam. It's all very "your mileage may vary", and some of us are driving old Chevy Novas instead of sports cars - and we like it that way. One thing that I've learned from hanging around for so long is that one party is in no way going to convince the other that they are the One True Way. Gaming systems are like religions, and in this I preach the one true way of the existentialist gamer. There is no spoon -- you must realize it is you who rolls the dice. This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone run In Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the Shadowrun dice cube d6 system, which from practice has been shown to be very adaptable to other settings? How about rebuilds of the combat system without lifting it from another game? (Yeah, we just had one, I know. I read! It's true!) New directions, people! Oh, how I pine for a different holy war! This email originally ended on a high note, and included a detailed and well thought out reasoning why everyone should just use Paranoia for their preferred In Nomine system, but it was clipped in the interests of human decency. Look! Five vessels - erm, clones! - - Em, imbibing in twinkies with suspicious chocolate chips ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 99 10:09:04 -0500 From: erisraven@crosswinds.net Subject: re: Re: IN> White Wolf > i don't know, you could maybe shoe-horn the Triat thing. weaver - heaven, > wyrm - hell, wyld - the marches. the corporeal realm is gaia, the meeting > place of the three. garou and the like work alongside the ethereal spirits, > they could travel in and out of the marches in a manner similar to the > umbra. vampires are wyrm-tainted because they are demonic creations. > remember that even in VtM not everyone agrees that Caine is the founder, or > that he's the guy out of the bible. in a crossover, he could just be the > first vampire to have created by saminga. you could explain the whole gen > thing by saying that elder vampires aren't automatically more powerful than > neonates, they've just had a lot longer to build up their forces, songs, > skills etc. If I'd have just waited a minute or two to post, you said most of it for me, though I'd still have to say the power of an elder is automatically stronger due to proximity to source. after all, think of it like blood..... ;)= I'd also have to say that the Wyld is the *Umbras* (all of the spirit-worlds, collective), and therefore the Marches. All the different Umbras exist within the Marches. After all, the realms of the Etherials (the old gods) exist there, and that's to some extent cohesive with the White Wolf statements about the Umbra. Also, can anyone give me a website reference for anyone's Wod/IN crossover work? I've looked through the links from the SJ sites, and haven't found any. One more log onto the fire - what is the collective view of the television show "The Legacy" and has anyone used some of its elements in campaign? Eris Corax of chaos (Apparently determined to create some....) Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 99 10:27:58 -0500 From: erisraven@crosswinds.net Subject: re: Re: IN> White Wolf > Given that IN canon on the Grigori won't be around for awhile, what's the > likelihood of you guys writing them up in IN terms either on the mailing > list, or in a Pyramid article? > > I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed at the thought that > I'd need to shell out L20 (or however much it costs) for a supplement for a > game I don't play, just to get the one page of rules (which I would have to > attempt to translate) for a game that I do! I would be quite pleased, as I have been using hte concept very loosely, and would like some game mechanics. Also, stupid question #2: I know there were sigils for each of the angelic choirs used in the Angelic player's guide, and they're on the web page for the book. Are there similar sigils for the Bands? What about the Grigori? Stupid question #3: I've already found the "Magna Veritas" font out there, and I've raided the galleries on SJ. Are there any other good sources of clip art or graphics? I usually make my own props and reference materials, but I was hoping for more to dress them up with. (Sigils are great for this - this is the reason for the earlier question.) Eris Corax of Chaos Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 99 10:43:47 -0500 From: erisraven@crosswinds.net Subject: re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD > It's GURPS vs. WoD in a no-holds barred steel cage battle to the death! > That's right folks -- get your tickets now, because it's coming Sunday > SUNDAY SUNDAY to the Pontaic Silverdome! Monster trucks! Vampires! > Reign of Steel! Get your tickets at Ticketmaster now. I now have to clean the Dr. Pepper off the monitor. Good one! > After deep and thoughtful analysis of five or six minutes, this is what > I've been able to discern from the inevitable GURPS vs WoD argument. Here > are the two arguments as I see them: > Gaming systems are like religions, > and in this I preach the one true way of the existentialist gamer. There > is no spoon -- you must realize it is you who rolls the dice. Unfortunately, it has some of the same problems as religions, too - I've been forced to convert from the First Church of GURPS to the Temple of the White Wolf, since my dear husband, who is the best darned GM I've ever gamed with, won't play GURPS. I keep trying, but to no avail. > This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any > resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy > Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone run In > Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? Isn't there some discussion on this one on the site hosted by SJ? > How about the Shadowrun dice cube d6 > system, which from practice has been shown to be very adaptable to > other settings? How about rebuilds of the combat system without lifting > it from another game? (Yeah, we just had one, I know. I read! It's > true!) New directions, people! Oh, how I pine for a different holy war! True enough. Rules ought to be nebulous anyway, IMHO, but that's a whole new religious debate that I refuse to set off (the which-is-most-important - story or rules argument), as even chaos birds like myself have limits. > This email originally ended on a high note, and included a detailed and > well thought out reasoning why everyone should just use Paranoia for their > preferred In Nomine system, but it was clipped in the interests of human > decency. Look! Five vessels - erm, clones! > > - Em, imbibing in twinkies with suspicious chocolate chips Obviously suspicious, since you're having Waaaayyy too much fun! :) Eris Corax of Chaos Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:57:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Emily Dresner wrote: > This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any > resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same > Holy Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has > anyone run In Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the > Shadowrun dice cube d6 system, which from practice has been shown > to be very adaptable to other settings? I'd be interested in the Over the Edge alternative. I've never played an OtE game, but I've admired it from a distance. My first idea on adaptation is that celestial characters get, as their main trait, their choir/band, Word, and any distinctions, e.g.: Cherub of Fire. Or maybe that comes in as a fourth trait that celelstials are allowed to start with. What, briefly, is the Shadowrun dice system? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:49:38 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD From: Emily Dresner > > This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any > resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy > Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone run In > Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the Shadowrun dice cube d6 > system, which from practice has been shown to be very adaptable to > other settings? How about rebuilds of the combat system without lifting > it from another game? (Yeah, we just had one, I know. I read! It's > true!) New directions, people! Oh, how I pine for a different holy war! > hmmm, to be honest i have enough hassle remembering the official rules for a game without trying to convert it to another set of rules. i seem to be fairly unusual int hat i don't have any real problems with the IN rules as they stand. yeah, combat's a bit rubbish but i tend to run more talky-orientated games anyway. i like fairly vague systems where i have room to improvise and make stuff up. something like GURPS would do my head in, to be honest, and while the storyteller system's ok i don't think it's good enough to warrant converting other games to it. i don't think i'd run a WoD-IN crossover, but it does kick up some interesting ideas. i did run a weird Vamp game a while ago that featured some celestial shenanigans in the background. if i ran that again i'd be tempted to steal bits from IN, i guess. anyway, my point is... erm, well ok, maybe i don't have a point. i guess i'm just happy ignoring the rules as much as possible, whatever system they may be from liam angel of gangrels p.s. is the promised larp rules for IN coming out any time soon? i'm keen on running a game, and if i have to wait much longer i'll just write my own ones. i've got vague ideas of how i'd work it running round my head, but i don't want to spend ages writing 'em up if the book's going to come out the month after ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:02:10 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf > > If I'd have just waited a minute or two to post, you said most of it for me, though I'd >still have to say the power of an elder is automatically stronger due to proximity to >source. > after all, think of it like blood..... ;)= > i guess so. i suppose it would depend on how you wanted to run vamps, more towards the IN version or the VtM version. > I'd also have to say that the Wyld is the *Umbras* (all of the spirit-worlds, >collective), and therefore the Marches. All the different Umbras exist within the >Marches. After all, the realms of the Etherials (the old gods) exist there, and that's >to some extent cohesive with the White Wolf statements about the Umbra. that was vaguely my idea. to be honest, i hadn't really given the whole thing any thought before this thread started. from what little i remember about umbra stuff, i guess the near marches and far marches could quite easily tie in with the penumbra and deep umbra. the whole nebulous nature of the marches (and the fact that blanine and beleth haven't really got a clue as to what's out there) makes them the perfect place to tie in crossovers with it just occured to me that the ethereal gods in IN fit in quite nicely with the earlier idea of nicking ideas from Sandman - season of mists. if lucifer went renegade, maybe what remains of the old pantheons in the marches could try to get control of hell, as they did in sandman. > One more log onto the fire - what is the collective view of the television show "The > Legacy" and has anyone used some of its elements in campaign? never seen it > Eris > Corax of chaos > (Apparently determined to create some....) would that be a corax who worships helios? in crossover terms, helios could be gabriel, which ties in nicely with the whole chaos thing :) liam mercurian of malkavians ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:16:08 +0100 From: hjalkar@redbrick.dcu.ie (Kevin Walsh) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:57:23AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > I'd be interested in the Over the Edge alternative. I've never > played an OtE game, but I've admired it from a distance. My first > idea on adaptation is that celestial characters get, as their > main trait, their choir/band, Word, and any distinctions, e.g.: > Cherub of Fire. Or maybe that comes in as a fourth trait that > celelstials are allowed to start with. > I've thought about this briefly and I think that the fourth trait (second primary) idea is the best. Otherwise, it's too difficult to create a Celestial who, say, has a Role. If I were to translate Mithredath, she'd have to get both Seraph of the Wind and Cat Burglar as traits, without even going into her other skills. > What, briefly, is the Shadowrun dice system? > Essentially, Shadowrun is the model from which the Storyteller system was created, and works in more-or-less the same way. Roll a number of d6s equal to your skill, compare to target number, and count your number of successes. Difficulty numbers above 6 are possible, and in those cases you reroll any 6s and add the number to 6 to get your result. If you roll all 1s, it's a botch, and something horrible happens. I've never seen it done, but at our last convention, it happened twice at one table. In combat, the difficulty of soaking damage from a weapon is called the Power. The amount of damage normally inflicted is the damage rating. Armour reduces power, and successes on the hit roll can increase the damage level, which can be reduced by dodges and soak rolls. An Ares Predator (BIG handgun) does 9M damage, so it's difficulty 9 to soak (but difficulty 4 to dodge) and will, all things being equal, inflict Medium damage. I don't know how I'd go about converting IN to Shadowrun. It's not something I've thought about. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "These roleplayers wouldn't know a convincing society if it hanged them under an obscure section of its legal code." Martin Lloyd. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:21:14 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Man, I've never read much on Metatron, but I already hate him. Any celestial who sounds like a Transformer just doesn't jive well for me... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:28:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Ben Glickler wrote: > > Man, I've never read much on Metatron, but I already hate him. > Any celestial who sounds like a Transformer just doesn't jive well > for me... Funny you should mention that. In "Good Omens," by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman (listed in the IN main book's bibliography), we have four children who encounter Metatron. On being introduced, one remarks, "I had a Metatron. It folded up into a jet fighter, but the head fell off." Actually, the name is Greek and means, roughly, "Behind the Throne" (of God). Metatron has had loads and loads of functions assigned to him by various angelologists over the centuries, but he seems to have started out as the Grand Vizier of Heaven, a concept I find about as disconcerting as Dominic's Heavenly Inquisition. In my private game plans, Metatron faked his death and is, roughly speaking, the secret and unknown Archangel of Mysterious Way, as in "The Lord moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform." It fit with the cliche of a Grand Vizier, with ostensible IN canon, and, in a way, with one of Metatron's better known functions as the angel who presents prayers to God. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:30:28 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD holy cow, someone else who knows about Over the Edge . for a while I tinkered with putting IN in OtE mechanics (which I just found to be incredibly marvelous) but it didn't seem to fit. one of the things I like best about In Nomine is the mechanics . I like the whole check digit system, and I get a big kick out of the Intervention part. of course, there's always the fun of telling someone to play this game you roll d666. in the end, it wound up being way to much of a headache for someone as lazy as me to try to translate In Nomine into another system, so why not just stick with it as it is? to me it isn't broke, so I'm not going to fix it. (with the possible exception of the recent post of combat rules...they look like they have promise) - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:33:32 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Liam Astley wrote: > From: Emily Dresner > > > > This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any > > resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy > > Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone run In > > Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the Shadowrun dice cube d6 > > system, which from practice has been shown to be very adaptable to > > other settings? How about rebuilds of the combat system without lifting > > it from another game? (Yeah, we just had one, I know. I read! It's > > true!) New directions, people! Oh, how I pine for a different holy war! I've always thought that the Feng Shui system could work very well in In Nomine. But I'm too lazy to bother with conversions. (Although I do have an NPC Malakite of Fire roaming around in the 1999 Juncture in my intermittent campaign - lots of fun). > p.s. is the promised larp rules for IN coming out any time soon? i'm keen on > running a game, and if i have to wait much longer i'll just write my own > ones. i've got vague ideas of how i'd work it running round my head, but i > don't want to spend ages writing 'em up if the book's going to come out the > month after Patrick O'Duffy wrote one, and It's available on my site. It isn't official, but it seems to work really well. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:36:46 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Band Sigils [wasRe: Re: IN> White Wolf] yes there are sigils for all the bands. they can be found in the Infernal Player's Guide (the source that springs first to mind for me). if you don't have it and don't want to purchase it, take a look on the Resources section of the In Nomine page, it has a link to some character sheets by choir/band. each sheet has the sigil for the choir/band/whatever. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:39:00 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: IN> In Nomine Over the Edge you can find an article in the In Nomine Compendium that suggests ways to convert In Nomine to Over the Edge rules. take a look, it's pretty good. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:42:44 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) At 20:37 -0400 9/28/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >But I ramble -- my points are: the concept of Lucifer redeeming seems >as far-fetched as Yves (or God) falling. Actually, one could argue that the latter *did* happen -- that Kronos was the result. But that's just my opinion on canon history; it's not solidly based on anything. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:46:24 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Nybbas picture (was Lucifer Repentant) At 1:08 -0400 9/29/99, Ben Chism wrote:>P.P.S I was flipping through the IN main rulebook and noticed >something....Check out Nybbas' write up(page 176 in the hardback)...the >picture...notice anybody out of place on the TV monitors behind him??? >ELI....what's his picture doing among the DP's?? That's an old discussion. My take on it is that the pictures mostly show Nybbas' enemies. I also seem to recall Smif saying that when he drew the Nybbas art, the TVs were empty -- the images of the others were added when the art was colorized at SJGames. And anyone who knows anything there, isn't talking.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:00:01 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf At 10:12 -0400 9/29/99, Jo Hart wrote: >Given that IN canon on the Grigori won't be around for awhile, what's the >likelihood of you guys writing them up in IN terms either on the mailing >list, or in a Pyramid article? I don't know -- that's somewhere between an Elizabeth and an SJ call, I think. The GURPS IN section really only covers their game mechanics, in addition to the general stuff that's in the main IN book. Personally, I don't see too much problem with a basic summary of the resonance/dissonance stuff, since anyone who buys GURPS IN (or has seen the playtest) could probably do as much. >I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed at the thought that >I'd need to shell out L20 (or however much it costs) for a supplement for a >game I don't play, just to get the one page of rules (which I would have to >attempt to translate) for a game that I do! That was never the intent -- the material *is* planned for a future IN supplement, and will probably be in much more detail there. (Don't ask me when, though!) The notion was that the Grigori and the Children are prominently mentioned in the IN main book, and will (hopefully in the not terribly distant future) have IN mechanics. In the interests of completeness, we felt it was a good idea to put at least the bare bones of their game mechanics (which is the hard-to-convert part) into GURPS IN. We didn't do the same for the minor Choirs/Bands, because they don't hold the same prominent place in the main IN book as player-character Choirs. Note that, GURPS IN doesn't contain any significant new *background* material on the Grigori and the Children, though it does clarify a couple of things from the main book which I think are either errata or fixed in the CPG, in the IN line. There might be one or two new tidbits there, but those, again, were added for completeness, and should show up in much more detail in future IN canon. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:08:16 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Choir/Band symbols (was White Wolf) At 11:27 -0400 9/29/99, erisraven@crosswinds.net wrote: >Also, stupid question #2: I know there were sigils for each of the angelic choirs used in >the Angelic player's guide, and they're on the web page for the book. Are there similar >sigils for the Bands? What about the Grigori? There are symbols for the Bands, in the IPG. I don't know if they appear on any web pages, though, and I also haven't heard of jewelry being done for them yet, as was done with the Choir symbols. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:41:16 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD how about pulling some old game designers workshop materials out. That's a wonderful character creation system you just have to add professions such as angel. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:36:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD At 11:33 AM -0400 9/29/99, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Liam Astley wrote: > > > From: Emily Dresner > > > > > > This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any > > > resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy > > > Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone run In > > > Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the Shadowrun >dice cube d6 > > > system, which from practice has been shown to be very adaptable to > > > other settings? How about rebuilds of the combat system without lifting > > > it from another game? (Yeah, we just had one, I know. I read! It's > > > true!) New directions, people! Oh, how I pine for a different holy war! > >I've always thought that the Feng Shui system could work very well in In >Nomine. But I'm too lazy to bother with conversions. (Although I do have >an NPC Malakite of Fire roaming around in the 1999 Juncture in my >intermittent campaign - lots of fun). Actually, one night I was glancing through FUDGE and realized it was practically written to convert IN characters into... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:34:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf At 4:56 PM -0500 9/28/99, Trent wrote: >> At 15:59 -0400 9/28/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >> >BTW are the children of the grigori CDaU? >> >> No -- they'll have real canon at some point. Some of the mechanics was >> swiped (and nailed down) for inclusion in GURPS In Nomine. > >As well as the CPG (unless that didn't make the playtest cut). Didn't make it -- the CPG was, well, over word-budget. (I remember, just once, bringing a book in about at budget... *sigh* That was probably a once-in-a-lifetime.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:40:06 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Prayer Tim Groth wrote: > > I was just thinking of an interesting idea, sincere prayer causes a >special kind of 'Disturbance'. It strikes a special chord in the Symphony, >which can be picked up by celestials. However the sound is very subtle and >soft (probably with a base of perception modified by how much selfless and >sinscere the prayer is). Angels get -2 to detect it and Demons get -4 to >detect it. IMC, prayers didn't have any special powers, except that God knew about them (omniscience, you see). The archangels sometimes received messages from God about particular prayers, and would in turn delegate angels to go do something about it. I did it this way to emphasize that prayer was not magic. There's a Hasidic story along these lines. There was once a great rabbi who was told by God that if he performed a certain complex ritual whenever his community was in danger, He would save the people. So whenever they were threatened by war or famine or disease, he would go off and perform this ritual, and God would save them. Now, the rabbi eventually grew old and died, and his student took over his place as rabbi. But the student couldn't remember the exact formula for some of the oils used in the ritual, so when danger threatened, he did his best, substituting for the oil with the best he could find. But God still accepted this and saved the people. Now, this student eventually grew old and died, and his student took his place. And even though he didn't know the precise oils, and even though he hadn't learned all the words to the prayer exactly, God still saved them when they were in danger. And so it continued, with each generation losing a little bit more of the formula, until today, when nothing but the story itself is remembered. And God still protects them when they are in danger. The idea is that God's intervention occurs at His discretion, and doesn't need to be (and in fact can't be) guaranteed by any formulas. I did it this way in order to make prayer as much of an opposite as possible to sorcery -- sorcery relied on complex rituals to bind and control demons, and prayer was a simple request of help directed to God. The other benefit (my game had angelic PCs) was that if needed I could give them a plot seed with a reliable hook -- "Foobariel, God Himself wants you to look into this, ok?" - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:14:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Grig, Sigils, and Art (Re: White Wolf) At 10:27 AM -0500 9/29/99, erisraven@crosswinds.net wrote: >> Given that IN canon on the Grigori won't be around for awhile, what's the >> likelihood of you guys writing them up in IN terms either on the mailing >> list, or in a Pyramid article? Unknown. It depends on when the book that they're planned for is going to show up. O:p >Also, stupid question #2: I know there were sigils for each of the angelic choirs used in >the Angelic player's guide, and they're on the web page for the book. Are there similar >sigils for the Bands? Yes, they're in the IPG. They don't have a web-page, though. O:< >What about the Grigori? Not yet. >Stupid question #3: I've already found the "Magna Veritas" font out there, and I've raided >the galleries on SJ. [Obligatory reminder not to spread copyrighted material around (except for your own very personal use which nobody will ever find out about anyway).] Have you checked www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Art/official ? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:03:30 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: IN> Zadkiel? and URL Any advice on Zadkiel so far- before I start packing for the two cons? Also, I think this might be of interest to some: http://cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9909/23/fringe/looney.cat/ Redneck Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:43:34 +0100 From: Dave Taylor Subject: Re: IN> Malakim In article <37F16A50.A734795@cruzers.com>, Steel Angel wrote: [Snip] > Which would you rather face? Some guy > with a grenade that comes after you once? or some guy with a knife who's > going to be after you until you or he is dead? .. and if you kill him, he comes back the next day just as determined, and probably even more so. I've been stalked by a Malakite before now, and it really began to scare me. I was constantly expecting the door to burst in and see him there, warhammer in hand (he was a malakite of David IIRC) ready and willing to mash my infernal brains out against the floor. It took my character and two other calabites to pull the bastiche down and dispose of him. ) (_ucan. Calabite of Inconvenient Mechanical Failure. Knight of dark Humor. - -- - -- Beyond the iron claws of the northern mountains, and over the lake of shadows, past the swirling fogs of the rainbow plains. There, upon the obsidian cliffs, stands the unholy sanctuary of Lucanrashen Darek Almarn, High priest of Tzeentch. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:30:56 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Stopping Spammers >>>For every trick we come up with to stop spam the spammers they will find a way around it.<<< And we can keep finding a way to block them. I do not agree that the battle is unwinnable. >>>As an MIB I do not want to hear stuff from Joe Public about it being difficult to access SJ Games mailing lists. Not only does it make my work more difficult, it gives a bad impression.<<< What, that SJG implements a fairly simple method of screening out spam? Would you rather hear that the In Nomine list is full of cable TV converter offers & MLM schemes? - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1345 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.