From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Sep 30 08:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14964 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:22:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id IAA09489 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:16:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:16:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199909301316.IAA09489@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1346 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1346 In this digest: IN> Children of the Grigori Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> Stopping Spammers Re: IN> Stopping Spammers IN> Prayer IN> Children of the Grigori in the CPG IN> GURPS In Nomine IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine Re: Band Sigils [wasRe: Re: IN> White Wolf] IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> White-wolf Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) IN> APRON I.D. Great gift for those who love to cook or juice re: Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) IN> In Nominizing the WOD Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:30:57 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Children of the Grigori > No -- they'll have real canon at some point. Some of the mechanics was > swiped (and nailed down) for inclusion in GURPS In Nomine. As well as the CPG (unless that didn't make the playtest cut).<<< It didn't. (What, you didn't buy a copy?) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:32:17 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Actually, one night I was glancing through FUDGE and realized it was > practically written to convert IN characters into... Been there, done that. My FUDGE Nomine notes are available to anyone who's interested - just send me an email for the Word97 file (I don't want to clog the list with it). And yeah, it works rather well with FUDGE. Having just done my overhaul of the combat system (still waiting on feedback for that, people!), I'll stick to using IN rules for a while (academic, since I'm not running IN anyway right now) - but FUDGE makes the game a bit smoother and a lot more predictable. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:33:49 +0100 From: Ashley Subject: Re: IN> Stopping Spammers David >>>>For every trick we come up with to stop spam the spammers they will find >a way around it.<<< >And we can keep finding a way to block them. I do not agree that the battle >is unwinnable. But it might be more effort than it is worth. There is only so long I will bang my head on a brick wall before I find more constructve use of my time. >>>>As an MIB I do not want to hear stuff from Joe Public about it being >difficult to access SJ Games mailing lists. Not only does it make my work >more difficult, it gives a bad impression.<<< >What, that SJG implements a fairly simple method of screening out spam? >Would you rather hear that the In Nomine list is full of cable TV converter >offers & MLM schemes? The amount of spam on the list is small. Far less on percentage terms than the junk mail which drops through my door. Junk mail goes the same way, straight in the trash. Maybe I have more tolerence of spam and other junk mail, it is part of life, I simply refuse to get wound up by it. Of course spam and Junk Mail are all part of a hideous illuminated plot. 'Did you ever wonder what sort of sinister messages might be hidden in that book-club advertisment? No? Good. Don't think about it.' Ashley ashley.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:30:24 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Stopping Spammers At 11:33 PM +0100 9/29/99, Ashley wrote: > >The amount of spam on the list is small. Far less on percentage terms than >the junk mail which drops through my door. Junk mail goes the same way, >straight in the trash. Maybe I have more tolerence of spam and other junk >mail, it is part of life, I simply refuse to get wound up by it. The simple fact is there is a simple way to block almost all spam on mailing lists, and it is a method used on pretty much every mailing list I'm on except this one. The idea that it would "turn off" potential posters is odd (why would anyone who doesn't want to subscribe want to post, anyhow?) and the potential benefit is high. I say, let's do it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:48:43 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Prayer >>>IMC, prayers didn't have any special powers, except that God knew about them (omniscience, you see). The archangels sometimes received messages from God about particular prayers, and would in turn delegate angels to go do something about it.<<< Shameless Plug Department: Hey, did you know prayer (and various ways of dealing with it in In Nomine) is described in the Corporeal Player's Guide? - -Some Guy Who Had Something to Do With the Corporeal Player's Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:48:43 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Children of the Grigori in the CPG >>>Didn't make it -- the CPG was, well, over word-budget. (I remember, just once, bringing a book in about at budget... *sigh* That was probably a once-in-a-lifetime.)<<< The CPG wasn't *severely* over-budget, and that wasn't the reason the CotG stuff was cut. It was because Higher Powers felt they should not be revealed until later. But I'm not bitter. - -David (now when can I post Uriel, or Azrael?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:48:44 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> GURPS In Nomine >>>The GURPS IN section really only covers their game mechanics, in addition to the general stuff that's in the main IN book. Personally, I don't see too much problem with a basic summary of the resonance/dissonance stuff, since anyone who buys GURPS IN (or has seen the playtest) could probably do as much.<<< I have to admit, I'm kind of curious about something. Reportedly GURPS In Nomine was way over its word-count, and you were constantly talking about how difficult it was to fit everything that was absolutely necessary into the book. So how is it that material that isn't even in the original sourcebook got crammed in? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:48:42 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine >>>This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems.<<< Wanna hear my heretical opinion, as an In Nomine fan AND a GURPS fan? I don't think GURPS In Nomine will work very well. Oh, the book might be very useful for using angels and demons in your normal GURPS campaign. But it's very hard to translate a game built upon a system designed for that game into another system, without losing too much of the flavor. Actually, I think the Hero System would work better for simulating celestials than GURPS does (as I believe the Hero system is better than GURPS in general for super-powered characters), but it would have the same problem as GURPS trying to get the flavor right. Likewise Fuzion, except of course that Fuzion is a vastly inferior mutation of the Hero system. Storyteller might work, except I think the Storyteller system just blows chunks in any setting. Well, I did until I read Aberrant, which actually makes the Storyteller system work fairly well, with superpowers even, so suddenly I get the image of an Aberrant/In Nomine crossover. Oy! I believe Patrick O'Duffy did an In Nomine FUDGE conversion (actually I have it around here somewhere -- it's not bad). I started writing such a thing myself, long ago, but never got as far as him. FUDGE is a nice system I like very much, but suffers from a high level of granularity. OTOH, it would work fairly well in terms of letting angels be more powerful than humans without leaving humans pitifully weak (as they are in IN, even if you do use all the options from the CPG). Over the Edge? I guess for a low-combat campaign where angels and demons (and their powers) are story hooks rather than characters, it might work. It definitely won't work in a cinematic game with lots of celestial slugfests. Amber has been suggested previously if the PCs are Superiors. Shadowrun? Ack. I don't think so. It is anything but a generic system, and I think not easily adaptable to In Nomine. Feng Shui has been mentioned. It's a neat system and with a lot of work one could represent celestial powers in Feng Shui mechanics. But it would take a LOT of work. And Feng Shui, of course, would be for games that are *heavily* combat-oriented. If your games don't feature celestial slugfests in every session, look elsewhere. There is one other system that I think would have real potential in In Nomine, and would particularly appeal to people who don't like heavy mechanics or dice, and that's Theatrix. I was tempted to write up a Theatrix/In Nomine conversion once, but I'll be amazed if more than 2 other people on this list have even heard of it, much less own the rules. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:15:54 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: Band Sigils [wasRe: Re: IN> White Wolf] At 10:36 AM -0500 9/29/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >yes there are sigils for all the bands. they can be found in the Infernal >Player's Guide (the source that springs first to mind for me). if you don't >have it and don't want to purchase it, take a look on the Resources section >of the In Nomine page, it has a link to some character sheets by choir/band. >each sheet has the sigil for the choir/band/whatever. Those would be mine, yes. Mind you, I -do- own the IPG (and all the other books, except for YAH. Not _MY_ fault they wanted to give it to me). Using that art is something I keep wanting to mention to someone on-high. Since I've already gone -way- passed the art limitations the Online Policy allows concerning In Nomine. Besides which, you _DO_ want to buy the IPG. It's a good book! Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:51:06 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> dark ages superiors i've got vague plans of running an IN game set in the dark ages. i like the idea but don't know when i'd actually do it, especially seeing as my regular game's been on hold for months. still, while i've got these ideas floating round my head i thought i might as well seek help, so to speak. the game would be set a few decades before the rise of charlemagne, and a few years before uriel's crusade. the roster of archangels would be quite different; uriel instead of laurence, raphael still alive, eli and gabriel still active in heaven. as for hell, nybbas wouldn't exist and vapula would be a bit of a nobody. valefor wouldn't be around yet (there'd be whatever-his-hame-is, the rapine guy). it may be fudging the timeline a bit, but i'd probably say that haagenti hadn't risen to power yet, so the DPs of sloth and oblivion were still around. anyone else i missed? anyway, if i do run this game i'll need attunements, distinctions, rites etc etc for these all-new all-old superiors, and being a lazy guy i was hoping some people might have writtem them up already on some website somewhere. i know i've come across a couple of uriel, but have any of the others been attempted? liam angel of Decent TV ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:05:23 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Alternate Systems for In Nomine David Edelstein wrote: > Actually, I think the Hero System would work better for simulating > celestials than GURPS does (as I believe the Hero system is better than > GURPS in general for super-powered characters), but it would have the same > problem as GURPS trying to get the flavor right. Likewise Fuzion, except of > course that Fuzion is a vastly inferior mutation of the Hero system. I think Hero/Fuzion would work better than GURPS, but that's not saying much. Both systems attempt to model effects very precisely, and IN has a lot of effects that are vague and difficult to 'price' effectively. > Storyteller might work, except I think the Storyteller system just blows > chunks in any setting. Well, I did until I read Aberrant, which actually > makes the Storyteller system work fairly well, with superpowers even, so > suddenly I get the image of an Aberrant/In Nomine crossover. Oy! Agreement on Aberrant's quality (although I'm not as anti-Storyteller as you). Still a little too mechanical in some ways, but it encourages tweaking rules and hand-waving away minor effects and variations. (Incidentally, David, you really should check out Trinity if you liked Aberrant. Same rules system, and one of the best SF settings I've ever seen.) > I believe Patrick O'Duffy did an In Nomine FUDGE conversion (actually I > have it around here somewhere -- it's not bad). I started writing such a > thing myself, long ago, but never got as far as him. FUDGE is a nice system > I like very much, but suffers from a high level of granularity. OTOH, it > would work fairly well in terms of letting angels be more powerful than > humans without leaving humans pitifully weak (as they are in IN, even if > you do use all the options from the CPG). Thanks for the complements. Making humans competant but angels still comprehensible was the aim of that conversion, and I like to think it works pretty well. > Over the Edge? I guess for a low-combat campaign where angels and demons > (and their powers) are story hooks rather than characters, it might work. > It definitely won't work in a cinematic game with lots of celestial > slugfests. Oh, you can do combat with OTE, and cinematic combat to boot. It just requires a little tweaking of the system - which, frankly, you'll have to do anyway in order to squeeze IN into it. I'd probably do it as simply as possible, subsuming _all_ supernatural abilities into a Trait like "Malakim of Destiny", including Songs, Attunements etc, and letting the players define what the trait did within reason. The other Traits would cover more mundane things, like roles or skill packages. > Amber has been suggested previously if the PCs are Superiors. I usually read that use of 'Amber' to mean 'some fairly freeform diceless system'. Not being a huge fan of Amber (too much micromanagement), I'd just do it systemless, or use Everway or Theatrix. > Shadowrun? Ack. I don't think so. It is anything but a generic system, and > I think not easily adaptable to In Nomine. Shadowrun scares me. They take a fairly simple dice system, and pile rule after rule after rule on top of it. Shadowrun characters seem to take up a page or two of stuff, and I like my characters to fit on one side of an index card (in big print). I have a friend who loves it, but I ain't going there. > Feng Shui has been mentioned. It's a neat system and with a lot of work one > could represent celestial powers in Feng Shui mechanics. But it would take > a LOT of work. And Feng Shui, of course, would be for games that are > *heavily* combat-oriented. If your games don't feature celestial slugfests > in every session, look elsewhere. FS doesn't _have_ to be combat oriented. The rules system, at heart, is a straightforward and fairly generic one. It's been directed solidly towards cinematic combat, but it's very little work to rein in back in. Celestial powers all work fairly simply as schticks. I figure a FS conversion would work quite well - I may even get around to doing it one day... (It helps that I have a copy of Nexus, a strong generic system that was used with a great deal of modification to create the FS system.) > There is one other system that I think would have real potential in In > Nomine, and would particularly appeal to people who don't like heavy > mechanics or dice, and that's Theatrix. I was tempted to write up a > Theatrix/In Nomine conversion once, but I'll be amazed if more than 2 other > people on this list have even heard of it, much less own the rules. Well, that'd be me! I think Theatrix is a very strong product, and I've enjoyed using it in the past. Since it's almost mechanicless (almost), there's little need to worry about rules balance or compatability.. Not for everyone, of course, but I like it. David, if you ever write up those conversion notes, let me know. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs & misfits - a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:12:28 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine At 20:48 -0400 9/29/99, David Edelstein wrote: >I have to admit, I'm kind of curious about something. Reportedly GURPS In >Nomine was way over its word-count, and you were constantly talking about >how difficult it was to fit everything that was absolutely necessary into >the book. So how is it that material that isn't even in the original >sourcebook got crammed in? Mostly because GURPS fans would have felt cheated if the Grig and CotG mechanics were missing, when they'd be out in the IN line relatively soon (or so it was hoped, anyway). Also, they aren't using that much more space than the generic, non-mechanics description would have taken. They *could* have been cut completely, but they *are* given some fairly major play in the main IN book. They may yet be cut -- they're on the "pretty optional" list; we'll see what happens when they get a fairly stable pour. The thing that *did* get cut, sort of, is the Appendix with the detailed GURPS mechanics for all the attunements -- it'll go up on the web, or so it currently appears. It was clearly less useful than a bit of additional Grig material, and used a *lot* more pages. Some other things on the "high cut potential" list are a few extra Songs, possibly the Sorcery stuff, and the enchantment rules as translated to GURPS. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:20:06 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) Our spies report that on 08:48 AM 9/29/99 -0400, Ben Aldred said: >> BTW, anyone ever notice how we'll all spell out 'Asmodeus' and 'Haagenti' >>but never seem to spell out 'Andrealphus'? We always use 'Andre', like we're >>pals or something...Makes you think, no? > >I personally always refer to the lightbringer as Lucy but that's just me. >Ben In the live version of Hot Rails to Hell by Blue Oyster Cult, there's this banter section in the middle, sort of like one sees in the midst of some blues routines. Same sort of thing, low-key talking. One part... "I know Lucifer so well I call him by his first name." "What do you call him?" "I said I call him...'Hey Lou!'." "And if he don't answer?" "I say 'Hey Lou, uh, loverboy...'." This probably ranks in the top 10 of things not to call Lucifer. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:58:45 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> White-wolf > Tony Byrd wrote: > > Can In Nomine be used along with White-wolfs world of darkness system? Not directly, though with the upcoming GURPS In Nomine and the already existing GURPS Vampire, Werewolf and Mage, you could attempt a conversion. Why not just use GURPS? ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:58:40 -0400 From: Big Cheeze Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD On Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 10:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Emily Dresner wrote: > It's GURPS vs. WoD in a no-holds barred steel cage battle to the > death! That's right folks -- get your tickets now, because it's coming > Sunday SUNDAY SUNDAY to the Pontaic Silverdome! Monster trucks! > Vampires! Reign of Steel! Get your tickets at Ticketmaster now. Throw in Robosaurus and I'm there! [...] > What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy Jihad, is a > discussion on _alternative_ systems. I'm running IN under the TORG system. Does that count? (TORG is a nearly defunct game that features meta-physically consistent concurrent, cross-genre play, a 'cinematic' play style, cards play, and open-ended rolls/attributes. It was published in 1990 by West End Games.) TORG already had: Attributes split into three equivalent groups Six levels (Minimal, Average, Good, Superior, Spectacular, and arguably Spectacular+) as it's 'quality of success' measure Working combat system Handling contested skill resolutions without resorting to funky math True, I had to do a minor hack - fitting in Forces. The rest of system already did what I thought IN was trying to do - without exceptions to the system to make normal humans non-trivial or needing supplements to revise core rules. But what really makes TORG good for IN is the open-ended (no max. value of, let say, 12), quasi-logarithmic, value-measure system. For every +5 a value gets, it's a corresponding x10 multiplier for the measure. A wide range of resolutions for most role-playing needs. Translating IN attributes to TORG values: IN TORG 1 5 2 6 3 7 4 8 5 9 6 9 7 10 8 11 9 12 10 13 11 14 12 15 Combined with the method of resolving actions, this method gives an advantage to higher skills/attributes. End result? PC's can have fun trouncing 'Ords' (mundanes|mooks|normals) and at the exact same time it gives a chance to dramatically defeat the Big Bad Guys(tm). And trouncing mooks isn't just limited to traditional combat tactics ("I'll shoot the one nearest to me"), but TORG has effective rules to mimic the Taunting, Tricking, Persuading, Testing, Intimidating, and out-Maneuvering that you'd see in the movies. All of which can be *more* useful to a PC or a BBG than combat. Although TORG doesn't have a cool, built-in '111|666' schtick like IN, working with probabilities (1 in 216 for an IN intervention) leads to a slightly less elegant solution in Torg (1 in 200). When rolling for the bonus number on the d20, a 6 or 7 after a normal roll again (occurs on 10|20) results in the appropriate intervention. With a wide range of generic non-damage effects and cards, filling out the SFX of IN is pretty easy: Habbalah roll their resonance and read the results against the Taunt column of the general results table. Effects range from minor - like being distracted (Unskilled) for the next round, to the dreaded Player's Call (aka 'carte blanche'). Jean's angels are the bringers of the Divine spark of insight? Let'em give Idea cards to others. Idea cards are a 'Ask the GM one question regarding one clue to the adventure'. Gabriel is the force of Divine passion? An Up (additional roll again) result could represent the unstoppable Divine power she embodies. Blandine is the vanguard for hope? Let her angels Inspire dreamers. Inspiration gives the person a free card and removes all Shock and KO conditions (non-lethal damage). An 'opposing' Intervention just popped up for PC's? Switch the Scene from Standard to Dramatic, and let the Drama Deck make life difficult for your players. The Drama Deck (also contains cards that the players use) can control Initiative, action flow, skill resolution and a whole lot more. A PC battling a servitor of the Game in a game of Go? Dramatic Skill resolution to the rescue, with lots of chances to trick and cajole your way into -or out of- victory. The Soundtrack Attunement is very useful when a player can peek at the next 6 cards in the action stack (part of the Drama Deck) and see with his own eyes how the action is going to flow . . . for better or worse. And Setbacks, Fatigues, and Stymies - oh my! I could go on (and on and on), but then I'd effectively be posting the entire conversion. For more information about either TORG or my embryonic TORG-IN game, see my homepage (in .sig) for links to the respective sections. Ideas on Possibilities <-> Essence and the construction of Attributes from Forces or questions on specific details are always welcome. [...] > This email originally ended on a high note, and included a detailed > and well thought out reasoning why everyone should just use Paranoia > for their preferred In Nomine system, but it was clipped in the > interests of human decency. Look! Five vessels - erm, clones! > > - - Em, imbibing in twinkies with suspicious chocolate chips Beware, Citizen. The Computer has classified eating twinkies as Traitorous. - -Garrett Taylor Mac Specialist / Lotus Admin / Domino Drone / Web Wrangler Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University Information Technology - Office of Internet & Intranet Services "I am a Troubleshooter; my job is to seek out and shoot Trouble." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:09:32 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) In a message dated 9/28/99 11:51:28 PM Central Daylight Time, bwchism@network-one.com writes: << I wouldn't see humanity having a problem....they probably wouldn't even know it had happened(Most humans are in the dark about the Symphony). Those who did know about it would likely get a real boost from the news...after all, everybody loves a winner...and what would show that Heaven is winning more than the Big Adversary swapping sides? >> Except for those reactionary types of which there are too many. You've seen them. Right after Glasnost, they were running around muttering things like, "It's a commie trick! Trying to make us let our guard down!" They're not interested in trivialities like reality or the facts. They just don't want their favorite enemy, the one they blame all their problems on, to be gone. Most of your hard-line Christians wouldn't even consider the possibility of Luce becoming a good guy. That would make them have to (gasp) THINK or even reevaluate their belief system! Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:28:31 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD >At 11:33 AM -0400 9/29/99, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >>On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Liam Astley wrote: >> >> > From: Emily Dresner >> > > >> > > This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any >> > > resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same >>Holy >> > > Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone >>run In >> > > Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the Shadowrun >>dice cube d6 >> > > system, which from practice has been shown to be very adaptable to >> > > other settings? How about rebuilds of the combat system without >>lifting >> > > it from another game? (Yeah, we just had one, I know. I read! It's >> > > true!) New directions, people! Oh, how I pine for a different holy >>war! >> >>I've always thought that the Feng Shui system could work very well in In >>Nomine. But I'm too lazy to bother with conversions. (Although I do have >>an NPC Malakite of Fire roaming around in the 1999 Juncture in my >>intermittent campaign - lots of fun). > >Actually, one night I was glancing through FUDGE and realized it was >practically written to convert IN characters into... Yeah, you practically read my mind. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Ninjas aren't dangerous. They're more afraid of you than you are of them." - The Tick The Tick, The Naked City ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:25:38 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) > Except for those reactionary types of which there are too many. You've seen > them. Right after Glasnost, they were running around muttering things like, > "It's a commie trick! Trying to make us let our guard down!" They're not > interested in trivialities like reality or the facts. They just don't want > their favorite enemy, the one they blame all their problems on, to be gone. Yeah, but the crazies are everywhere ;-) I mean, hey, Hell's still there...with somebody else at the reins... > Most of your hard-line Christians wouldn't even consider the possibility of > Luce becoming a good guy. That would make them have to (gasp) THINK or >even reevaluate their belief system! Again, there would be very few who even knew about it.... Good point on having to reevaluate...I'm a Christian(Church of Christ) and most branches(AFAIK...I know most CoC don't) don't even allow demons the chance to repent...after they fall they are stuck there(a few people I know don't believe that it's possible for angels to fall anymore...I disagree with both views) So it'd cause major panic for them if they found out...all the more reason for both sides to keep it quiet. Ben Chism angel in search of a word demon of utterly useless triva (Did you know that "Hang on Sloopy" is the official rock song of Ohio?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:40:11 EDT From: JadePsion@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD In a message dated 9/29/99 4:52:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nallix@bellsouth.net writes: > I like the whole check digit > system, and I get a big kick out of the Intervention part. I do too. When my GM and I translated IN to Trinity, we actually kept the check digit, just converted it to a d10 based check, rather than a d6. You don't get the fun of rolling a d666 (and since I haven't actually rolled a DI in the game yet, I don't know how much of that got translated over...), but you still have the check. We just add an extra die to the dice pool that looks different from the others and read it strictly as check digit, without counting it into number of successes. Misha, Malakite of Fire, in service to War ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:40:10 EDT From: JadePsion@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD In a message dated 9/29/99 4:46:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gantr@NKU.EDU writes: > What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy > > > Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. Like, has anyone run > In > > > Nomine with the Over the Edge rules? How about the Shadowrun dice cube > d6 > > > system Well, it's still White Wolf, but I did some conversion of the IN rules to _Trinity_ for a crossover game I'm playing in. Hey -- at least it's not WoD! I've also been toying with doing some IN/Paranoia cross, especially since I'm currently running a more humorous PBeM angelic "Troubleshooters" game which (hopefully!) is going to run very close to Paranoia in flavor (making Yves a kinder, gentler version of The Computer...I've even got some translated Paranoia adventures in the wings for my players). Misha, Malakite of Fire in service to War ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:08:24 EDT From: JadePsion@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) My computer munched the original message of this thread. Could someone *please* send it my way? I'd really like to see the house system (as well as any other people have developed). E-mail (jadepsion@aol.com) is fine, if you don't want to repost. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:58:51 -0400 (added by postmaster@isocor.Transcontinental.ca) From: moomi16@aldec.katowice.pl (josiuce) Subject: IN> APRON I.D. 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CREDIT CARD NUMBER & NAME ____________________________ ______________________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE: _________________ SIGNATURE: _______________________ DATE: _____________________________ *-*-*Thanks*- ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 99 08:46:34 -0500 From: erisraven@crosswinds.net Subject: re: Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) I joined the list after the message; could I also beg this same boon? Eris Corax of Chaos > ** Original Subject: Re: IN> New House System for Combat (Long) > ** Original Sender: JadePsion@AOL.COM > ** Original Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:08:24 EDT > ** Original Message follows... > > My computer munched the original message of this thread. Could someone > *please* send it my way? I'd really like to see the house system (as well as > any other people have developed). E-mail (jadepsion@aol.com) is fine, if you > don't want to repost. >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:07:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: IN> In Nominizing the WOD All this talk about In Nomine/WOD melding got me interested in showing my own version. I would keep In Nomine the dominant game. There would have to be some changes to both sides, but it would work best if most of the underlying assumptions of In Nomine were kept because it would be more fun to try to reconcile the other backgrounds against a baseline Truth than just to say everyone is right/wrong. Here are some ideas: Vampire: This is the easiest to integrate with In Nomine, since the cosmology is so compatible. Caine cursed by God works with no changes. The role of Lilith would be different though since she's now a member of Hell's Hierarchy, and Saminga is no longer the source of vampires and mummies, but nothing else major has to be changed on either side. Werewolf: This is a little more problematic. The Triat and Gaia either have to be thrown out entirely, or redefined as the Garou's perception of how things are. Throwing everything out is too easy, so interpeting what they believe is the way to go. The Changing Breeds were Jordi's instruments for keeping humans in balance with the rest of nature. The Imperegium was his idea. But like humans, they soon started having their own ideas about the universe. Totems were formed in the Marches, or Umbra, and grew with the power given to them by the shifters. Still, they have a instinctive and cultural imperative to protect the Symphony from corruption. They percieve the forces of Hell as of the Wyrm, and also lump the darker Ethereal beings under this heading. Gaia is their name and perception of God, as the giver of life. The various realms of the Umbra lie in the Far Marches, but they go there from a different route which bypasses the dreamscapes of the Near Marches. Mage: The Awakened represent humanity's ultimate place in the Symphony with the potential to effect creation for good or ill greater than any Celestial. True Magick is the ability to improvise Songs, and paradox is the magi equivalent of dissonance, as the disturbance to the Symphony caused by their actions echoes back to them. Paradox Flaws, of course, are the equivalent of Discord. The reason why reality is so flexible and responsive to magi paradigms is proof of Free Will, and that God is letting Humanity set the key in which the Symphony is played. The Technocracy was influenced by both Archangels Jean and Uriel, and the pogrom against other supernaturals was first began as part of Uriel's Purity Crusade. Of course, with Free Will, humans soon are own their own. Wraith: Haven't figured it out yet. Any ideas? Changeling: Refugees from Arcadia in the Far Marches, Changelings survived the Purity Crusade by hiding among humanity. Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:14:01 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer Repentant (was Saminga and the Lightbringer) >Again, there would be very few who even knew about it.... >Good point on having to reevaluate...I'm a Christian(Church of >Christ) and >most branches(AFAIK...I know most CoC don't) Scanning through this, I was briefly confused how we got to talking about Call of Cthulhu. (CofC) :-) >don't even allow demons the chance to repent...after they fall they >are >stuck there(a few people I know don't believe that it's possible >for >angels to fall anymore...I disagree with both views) The teachings are in there, for Catholics, anyway. *Anyone* can repent, right? But I think a repentant demon would have a harder time being believed as sincere by humans than by angels. After all, *no-one* earth-born knew him before the Fall, or knows what it's like on the Heavenly side that he's been denying himself all this time. >So it'd cause major panic for them if they found out...all >the more reason for both sides to keep it quiet. Oh heck, yeah! Can you imagine the religous wars (intellectual or militarily-based) if it got out? Can you imagine the Pope trying to convince his Flock that the Great Enemy is no more? - --Trey Cherub of Gaming Conventions ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1346 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.