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in_nomine-digest      Thursday, October 12 2000      Volume 01 : Number 1847



In this digest:

   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   IN> Condolences
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault. This is not my fault.
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.
   Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus
   Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus
   Re: IN> This is an odd one, even for me.
   Re: IN> "Whaddya mean, I can't have monocrys?" (Take two...)
   Re: IN> Transformation & Glamour
   Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault. This is not  my fault.
   Re: IN> Good News
   Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault. This is not  my fault.
   Re: IN> "Whaddya mean, I can't have monocrys?" (Take two...)
   Re: IN> Transformation & Glamour
   IN> Thank you all...
   Re: IN> PBEM??
   Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault.  This is not my fault.  (with some OT content)
   IN> Grigori
   IN> Transformation and Glamour
   Re: IN> Transformation and Glamour
   IN> Remnant question
   Re: IN> Grigori
   Re: IN> Remnant question
   Re: IN> Remnant question
   IN> Is this list being moved?
   Re: IN> Is this list being moved?
   IN> God's Creation
   Re: IN> Is this list being moved?
   Re: IN> Is this list being moved?
   Re: IN> "Whaddya mean, I can't have monocrys?" (Take two...)
   Re: IN> Transformation & Glamour
   Re: IN> This is not my fault. This is not my fault. This is not my fault.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:12:31 -0700
From: "Kish" <Kish_K@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

From: David Edelstein <amadan@amadan.org>


Prodigal wrote:
> Corporeal Forces: 3
>      Strength: 9
>      Agility: 3

<<Your cow is more agile than most humans!>>

Uh?

:looks on page 35 of In Nomine:

3 in a Characteristic is Low-Average Human Adult.


> Ethereal Forces: 1
>      Intelligence: 2
>      Precision: 2

<<And just as smart!>>

...as a "Poor, or Human Child."

Ordinary humans have 5 Forces, which would make the average human very
much above-"average" if 2 was the average for a human.  Are the main
book's Characteristic meanings contradicted somewhere?

- --
     Kish
ICQ#: 28085879
AIM: Kish K M
Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:21:09 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: IN> Condolences

At 12:16 PM -0400 10/11/00, Twila Oxley Price wrote:
>Twila (who needed a cheering up... 'coz her Dad ascended to the higher
>heavens this am...)

<offer of a virtual hug>

I wish I had words of comfort that weren't trite. O:<

- --Beth

(PS: your comments about the Muppet Campaign were eeeevil.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:30:54 -0400
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

At 1:37 PM -0500 10/11/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote:
>David Edelstein wrote:
>
>> Cows should have 2 Corporeal Forces. No ethereal, no celestial. 
>> Very few animals will have Ethereal or Celestial Forces.
>
>Here's where the coarse granularity of the game mechanics runs 
>up against realism.  Anything with warm blood gives pretty 
>clear indication of SOME level of mentality, 

Except my cat, Julicat, the walking houseplant. (Negative Ethereal
Forces, I swear...)

That aside, the best fix I can think of is to give 1-3 points to
spread through the "Forceless" stats, akin to the "earned attribute
points" stuff from p. 202.

Note .sig and its effect on my thinking, of course. O:>

- --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos.
"She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:38:23 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

At 2:30 PM -0400 10/11/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote:
>At 1:37 PM -0500 10/11/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote:
>>David Edelstein wrote:
>>
>>>  Cows should have 2 Corporeal Forces. No ethereal, no celestial.
>>>  Very few animals will have Ethereal or Celestial Forces.
>>
>>Here's where the coarse granularity of the game mechanics runs
>>up against realism.  Anything with warm blood gives pretty
>>clear indication of SOME level of mentality,
>
>Except my cat, Julicat, the walking houseplant. (Negative Ethereal
>Forces, I swear...)

Whereas Sarah Kyriotate, the newest member of my house, is 
significantly more intelligent than several of my family members and 
very possibly Mason.

Er, hi Mason.

I was most impressed when she figured out that I had to get up and 
walk to the alarm clock to push either the off button or snooze, so 
when the alarm goes off she dashes over there, hides in a crouch, and 
waits to attack my hand. Right there, she's one-up on a good number 
of my students.

So, I wouldn't 0 Int her. 1-2 points wouldn't seem unreasonable to me 
- -- because her defaults (she's too young to have skills-skills) in 
cat-like intelligence skills are pretty high.

It seems to me that the Intelligence score should mean something 
*different* for animals than for humans. As in, high intelligence in 
a cat wouldn't give the cat Computer Operation skill, but an 
excellent tactical skill. High precision wouldn't let the cat throw a 
dart but pouncing becomes exceptional. And so forth.

(Is it realistic? Probably not -- but it *is* a Cinematic game.)
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:47:39 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus

At 1:49 PM -0500 10/11/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote:
>
>
>I see; so it's really Numinous Corpus (Pantomime Cow)

"PANTOMIME PRINCESS MARGARET: This attunement is granted by Kobal to 
*exceptional* Servitors. Exceptionally what, we won't say. When 
invoked, two or more celestials touching (only one of whom must have 
the attunement in question) spend 3 Essence and the Servitor with the 
attunement must make a Will roll. If successful, the two beings merge 
into one being that looks entirely like a plaster of paris effigy of 
the Princess Margaret with two people underneath her voluminous 
robes, trying to operate her hands and turn her head with sticks 
while not being seen. The effect lasts for CD hours. The Kobalite who 
used the Attunement controls the whole of the Pantomime Princess 
Margaret. Unwilling participants may resist with a Will roll in 
contest to the Kobalite's. Once in the form of the Pantomime Princess 
Margaret, all those who see the Pantomime Princess Margaret must make 
a Will Roll or fail to see it as anything *but* a Pantomime member of 
the British Royal Family, and further act as though such things were 
normal, the Pantomine Princess Margaret clearly had every right to be 
where she appears, and once that is established all others will 
dismiss her out of hand. Therefore, Kobalites use this attunements to 
escape from pursuing Malakim, secure entry to military bases, or 
otherwise do things or go places the Kobalite surely wouldn't be 
allowed, but inexplicably the Pantomime Princess Margaret would be."

Sorry. Somewhere between Earl's statement and Mason throwing a 
Pokemon at me for saying my cat had more on the ball than he, my 
brain broke.
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:16:33 -0500
From: David Edelstein <amadan@amadan.org>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

Kish wrote:
> <<Your cow is more agile than most humans!>>
> 
> Uh?

Should've said "as agile as many humans."

Still way too high for a cow. 0 or 1 is more like it.

> ...as a "Poor, or Human Child."

Which is still darn smart for a cow.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:18:49 -0500
From: David Edelstein <amadan@amadan.org>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

Whistling in the Dark wrote:
> I was most impressed when she figured out that I had to get up and
> walk to the alarm clock to push either the off button or snooze, so
> when the alarm goes off she dashes over there, hides in a crouch, and
> waits to attack my hand. Right there, she's one-up on a good number
> of my students.
> 
> So, I wouldn't 0 Int her.


Why not? The ability to associate a few events and react accordingly
isn't a sign of significant intelligence.

(Or as Mark Twain said: A cat who sits on a hot stove will never sit on
a hot stove again. Of course, it will never sit on a cold one either...)

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:16:48 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

- --============_-1240830684==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 2:16 PM -0500 10/11/00, David Edelstein wrote:
>Kish wrote:
>
>Still way too high for a cow. 0 or 1 is more like it.
>
>>  ...as a "Poor, or Human Child."
>
>Which is still darn smart for a cow.
>
>-David

Hm. Honest question here.

Part of Hindu belief is that the souls of one's ancestors might be 
found reincarnated in cows. (This is why Hindus won't eat beef. It's 
not that the cow is sacred, it's that to do so is cannibalism.)

I wonder if there's some potential for an In Nomine writeup here....
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point
- --============_-1240830684==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: IN&gt; Snide jokes aside, this could be
useful.</title></head><body>
<div>At 2:16 PM -0500 10/11/00, David Edelstein wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Kish wrote:</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
Still way too high for a cow. 0 or 1 is more like it.<br>
<br>
&gt; ...as a &quot;Poor, or Human Child.&quot;<br>
<br>
Which is still darn smart for a cow.<br>
<br>
- -David</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hm. Honest question here.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Part of Hindu belief is that the souls of one's ancestors might
be found reincarnated in cows. (This is why Hindus won't eat beef.
It's not that the cow is sacred, it's that to do so is<i>
cannibalism</i>.)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I wonder if there's some potential for an In Nomine writeup
here....</div>

<div>-- <br>
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things,
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.<br>
<br>
Eric Alfred Burns - &lt;in-sabre@annotations.com&gt;<br>
&lt;http://www.annotations.com/~innomine&gt;<br>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point</div>
</body>
</html>
- --============_-1240830684==_ma============--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:33:14 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

At 2:18 PM -0500 10/11/00, David Edelstein wrote:
>
>Why not? The ability to associate a few events and react accordingly
>isn't a sign of significant intelligence.

It depends on your definition of intelligence, I suppose. The 
capacity for learning and the reasoning of a course of action is, 
IMO, an intelligent act. It's not, as you said, learning "stoves 
burn!" It's learning that when this device buzzes, Eric comes over. I 
attack Eric's hand because I'm a cat and a hunter, and Eric's hand is 
what I train on. If I move quickly to the area of the clock but hide, 
I'll have a clear line of attack."

Is it linguistically what I've got above? No. But is it "a sign of 
significant intelligence?" I don't see why not.

And for the record, I've met people who burn themselves more than 
once on a stove... <wg>
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:59:12 EDT
From: BillionSix@aol.com
Subject: Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault. This is not my fault.

In a message dated 10/11/00 10:37:04 AM Central Daylight Time, 
emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes:

<< You do realise the rest of the Muppets, once they figure out he's missing 
 >and where he's gone, will probably try to come to Earth to rescue Kermit, 
 >right? (mad giggle) >>

If there is a God, Elmo will be blasted into Trauma for a long, long time.

Reverend Brian A. Rogers
BillionSix@aol.com
ICQ# 22544590

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:07:43 EDT
From: BillionSix@aol.com
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

In a message dated 10/11/00 12:03:42 PM Central Daylight Time, 
amadan@amadan.org writes:

<< Cows should have 2 Corporeal Forces. No ethereal, no celestial. Very few
 animals will have Ethereal or Celestial Forces. >>

I think some of the more vicious and cunning predators might have a Celestial 
Force. Like a wolverine or something. Or one of Vapula's carnivorous hunting 
cows.

Reverend Brian A. Rogers
BillionSix@aol.com
ICQ# 22544590

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:12:32 EDT
From: BillionSix@aol.com
Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful.

In a message dated 10/11/00 12:52:14 PM Central Daylight Time, 
amadan@amadan.org writes:

<< Remember that a 0 Intelligence doesn't necessarily mean having the
 intelligence of a rock. It means having an intelligence that is not
 measurable by human standards, and incapable of making human-like
 deductions.
 
 -David >>

True. I think in human terms, 0 Intelligence and Precision would be a 
severely retarted human. Remember that a Remnant can live an almost normal 
life with 0 Will and Perception. They are just VERY easily led, and don't 
really notice things unless they are right under their nose. I've met a lot 
of people like that.

Reverend Brian A. Rogers
BillionSix@aol.com
ICQ# 22544590

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:14:09 -0500
From: "Prodigal" <prodigal@ticnet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus

From: "Whistling in the Dark" <in-sabre@annotations.com>
> 
> "PANTOMIME PRINCESS MARGARET: 

You scare me sometimes... ;;;)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:49:55 -0500
From: Earl Wajenberg <earlw@mc.com>
Subject: Re: IN> New Numinous Corpus

Maurice Lane wrote:
 
>> Numinous Corpus (Cow)

>> Normally, a performer of the Song gains hoofs for
>> hands and a bull's head (well, you could take a 
>> cow's head instead, but that's not very useful).

>Actually, in wold cattle and many domestic breeds,
>both cows and bulls have horns.  If the feet turn
>into bovine hooves, too, the net effect sounds a lot
>like a minotaur.

Pretty much, although that now that I know that I can
get away with horns on cows, the bull option goes
away.  Sort of a, well, cowotaur.  :)

>> Another small problem is that the two
>> singers both have control over the composite cow:
>> actually, one has control over the front, and one
>> has control over the back.  This can often be quite
>> funny, in a sick and sad sort of way.

>I see; so it's really Numinous Corpus (Pantomime Cow)

Essentially, yes.  Normally, the fact that both ends
are under independent control isn't that important:
the singers can 'talk' to each other, although to
outsiders it comes out as moos and ... well, never
mind. 
It's when you're trying to run from the Malakim of
Fire hit squad (howling "WHERE'S THE BEEF!?!", no
doubt) that the design flaw in this Song becomes
apparent.  :)





=====
In Nomine stuff:
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html
Everything else (not that there is, right now): 
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html
Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:40:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> This is an odd one, even for me.

- --- Andrew Stoner <anstoner@bostonren.edisonproject.com> wrote:
> > Two All-beef Patties

> Yeah, sounds reasonable, if a BIT overpowered.  I mean, he can
> effectively
> have a bit of attunement to what...  assume a 1000 pound steer, 60%
> effectiveness and 1 lb of steak per meal (which is way more than I
> can eat)
> thats able to track 600 people.  For a short period of time, until
> the
> protein ingested gets removed from the system... but...  But that's
> just
> how my players would try to run things (bloody biochem majors...)

  Easily fixed.  Just limit the number of targets and, if you think
it's necessary, up the Essence cost.

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
"I wondered why somebody didn't do something.
Then I realized that I was somebody."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> "Whaddya mean, I can't have monocrys?" (Take two...)

- --- Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That'll teach me to post a question on the weekend. 
> :)
> 
> Anyway, I need more examples of armor, and I haven't
> found any (admittedly, it's not my highest priority,
> but there's a artifact waiting on it).  If you know of
> any site that would have something of this sort, feel
> free to let me know.  :)

  You might try the old D&D(tm) books.  They give a number of examples
of different armor types, and the armor class system gives at least a
starting point on rating their Protection values relative to each
other. The only drawback is the lack of modern armor.

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
"I wondered why somebody didn't do something.
Then I realized that I was somebody."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Transformation & Glamour

- --- BillionSix@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/11/00 9:44:38 AM Central Daylight Time,
> earlw@mc.com 
> writes:
> 
> << Two staples of fantasy are transformations and glamour.
>  What does In Nomine provide here?  The Song of Form only 
>  lasts 6 minutes, max, and the Numina Corpi are a very limited 
>  selection, and likewise brief. >>

  The operative term here is fantasy -- which puts such things clearly
in the camp of the Ethereals.  The spirits of the Marches (especially
the Faerie) would be better at that sort of thing than angels and
demons are.  The first example of this (though hopefully not the last
- -- please hurry with the EPG!) is Loki's Song from the "No Dinero"
adventure in Heaven and Hell.

=====
Michael Walton,  #9805-068
"I wondered why somebody didn't do something.
Then I realized that I was somebody."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 2000 23:17:58 -0000
From: "-=|horsefly|=-" <horsefly@ghostmail.net>
Subject: Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault. This is not  my fault.

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Twila Oxley Price <top@ams.org> wrote:
	[snip]
>Or. Oh lord. Doctor whatzis and Beaker. Jean. Vapula. Oh lord... The
>Muppet campaign. 
	Dr. Bunson Honeydew, and yes, the Great Muppet Campaign would be oodles of fun ;>  but i'm sick like that anyway ;)

>What a *brilliantly* nasty thing to run on one's players. Heh. 
	without prepping them first, natch!

>Twila (who needed a cheering up... 'coz her Dad ascended to the higher
>heavens this am...)
	<stricken, consoling hug> you have my prayers.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:53:15 -0500
From: Andrew Hackard <hackard@io.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Good News

At 08:06 AM 11/10/00 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote:
>Did we get Gabriel? Yves? Huh? Huh?

I don't know which pieces Phil used; I was looking at the text, not the 
art.  Sorry.
- --
Choosing between Bush and Gore is like choosing  |  hackard@io.com
whether to be circumcised with a nail file or a  |  AIM: Talthybias
spork -- either way, I'm not interested.         |  ICQ: 19083015

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:34:14 -0400
From: "William J. Keith" <wjk150@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault. This is not  my fault.

>Eric wrote --
>
>Furfur.
>
>Animal.
>
>Drum solo.
>
>This image is out of my head, and into yours. Ta.
>--
>
>What I can't get out of my head is Gonzo deciding that he wants to be
>a Laurencian and tagging along after Laurence with a big shiny sword
>in his hands.... Or the Swedish chef "mork mork morking" at Jordi....
>Or. Oh lord. Doctor whatzis and Beaker. Jean. Vapula. Oh lord... The
>Muppet campaign.

*laugh*

>What a *brilliantly* nasty thing to run on one's players. Heh.

*laugh*

>Twila (who needed a cheering up... 'coz her Dad ascended to the higher
>heavens this am...)

Err.  Bummer.

*Hugs*

:^(

William

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:10:46 -0400
From: "William J. Keith" <wjk150@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> "Whaddya mean, I can't have monocrys?" (Take two...)

>--- Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> That'll teach me to post a question on the weekend.
>> :)
>>
>> Anyway, I need more examples of armor, and I haven't
>> found any (admittedly, it's not my highest priority,
>> but there's a artifact waiting on it).  If you know of
>> any site that would have something of this sort, feel
>> free to let me know.  :)
>
>  You might try the old D&D(tm) books.  They give a number of examples
>of different armor types, and the armor class system gives at least a
>starting point on rating their Protection values relative to each
>other. The only drawback is the lack of modern armor.

If you need modern armor, the GURPS Basic Set has several styles, at
various tech levels.  A common modern armor would be the Second Chance
Standard kevlar vest.  Now, search me how it's done in IN, but here's what
it does in GURPS:

It adds 2 to a roll (on three six-sided dice) for the wearer's attempt to
deflect the damage passively - i.e., even if he's standing still the shot
might still deflect off the jacket.
It subtracts 14 from damage done, which is generally rolled on two dice for
a pistol, or much more(an M-16 does 5d damage, a H&K G3 does 7d) for a
rifle.
It costs about $200, weighs a little over a kilo, and does not restrict
movement at all.

There's no particular conversion to the IN battle rules(mmm... math
project), but adjusting the armor's bonuses up or down by the appropriate
ratios should do it roughly(that is, if a standard rifle would do 3 dice of
damage instead of about 6, the jacket should subtract 7 from the damage
done instead of 14).

(Anybody can just tell me to pipe down if they don't want me spilling any
more of the main book in the future(from the SJGames professionals) or if
I'm completely off the mark in guessing the IN damage rules.  ;^)   )

>=====
>Michael Walton,  #9805-068
>"I wondered why somebody didn't do something.
>Then I realized that I was somebody."

William

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:18:07 -0400
From: "William J. Keith" <wjk150@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Transformation & Glamour

>Then there's glamour.  Illusion.  Magical mirages.  I don't
>recall any IN mechanic for this, but I don't have it all at
>my fingertips.  Is there anything?

Ethereal Song of Light on Earth, and the Celestial Song of Dreams in a
dreamscape.  In addition, Lightning's Seraphim can create a small
holographic display of anything they have seen.

>Earl

William

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Twila Oxley Price <top@ams.org>
Subject: IN> Thank you all...

I am overwhelmed by everyone's good wishes and condolences. Since I'm
going to be offline for the funeral for several days (my parents live
several hundred miles away), I wanted to say thank you collectively
now, and to tell everyone that I appreciate their thoughtfullness. 

Twila 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:38:41 GMT
From: "Perry Lloyd" <perrylloyd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> PBEM??

>Hi all
>
>Is anyone running an In Nomine game by PBEM,WebRPG or IRC that I could get
>into?  I
>have seen the WW one...is that any good or is it just a writing exercise?
>
>Tim
>timac@home.com

You're more than welcome to lurk on Nouveau Play-By-EMail npbem@egroups.com 
- -- http://www.geocities.com/~llloyd/npbem/npbem.html

- -Perry

perrylloyd@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html

"And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong.  Do you 
know that people would rather die than be wrong?"
- --from A Matter For Men
  by David Gerrold

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:45:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> This is not my fault.  This is not my fault.  This is not my fault.  (with some OT content)

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:41:15 -0500From: Earl
Wajenberg <earlw@mc.com>
Subject: Re: IN> This is not my fault. This is not my
fault. This is not my fault.
ben wrote:
>> You could have a host of doe-eyed, sighing Lilim
>>following Kermit around when he sings, "It's not
>>easy being green."
>(Delivered in a raspy falsetto by something round and
>pink):
>"Hands off, Greenie-Groupies! He's MINE!
>Hayyyyyy*YA*!"
>Earl

OK, now that I'm off of the floor from all of the
responses...

That's it.  Shared-world time.  Everyone declare a
Muppet, write up how s/he'd react to INWorld and
Kermit gone, and send it to me.* I'll collate, stick
on webpage.  With any luck, we'll scare the living
bejeezus out of someone else down the line.  :)

Incidentally, it's not IN, but something that Tom
Smith wrote up might give all of you further
inspiration in this vein, if you so choose:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/shtick/rhms/rhmstext.htm

Oh, yes, I almost forgot:  I get this list in digest
form, and it seems to be quite erratic lately, so I
may be behind the post curve for a while (for example,
I have almost no idea what _anyone_ wrote on Tuesday. 
I gather that there's an ice angel floating about out
there)...

Moe

*Hey, we can't make Ben host _all_ of our shared
illusions.  BTW, I already know how they got to the
corporeal plane.
They 'borrowed' one of the Greys' ships, of course.

"PIGGGGGGSSSSSS INNNNNNNNN SPAAAAACCEEEEEE........"

=====
In Nomine stuff:
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html
Everything else (not that there is, right now): 
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html
Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:06:14 +0930
From: gnezda <gnezda@netadvantage.com.au>
Subject: IN> Grigori

Just wondering, what would be the resonance of a Grigori, and what would
happen if one Fell? Indeed, could they even Fall (perhaps they've
already Fallen, or else contact with humanity has removed so much of
their Divinity that they can't Fall or Redeem anymore?)

Just some thoughts...

Milan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:24:11 +0930
From: gnezda <gnezda@netadvantage.com.au>
Subject: IN> Transformation and Glamour

Glamyre/Glamour was a Fairy ability, so it should probably be used for
fairies, but not for celestials or humans. Just as celestials have their
resonance, so too would a fairy have Glamour, invisibility, etc.

Just my take on it
Milan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:13:22 -0600
From: Tim Groth <Timothy.Groth@colorado.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Transformation and Glamour

>Glamyre/Glamour was a Fairy ability, so it should probably be used for
>fairies, but not for celestials or humans. Just as celestials have their
>resonance, so too would a fairy have Glamour, invisibility, etc.

Hmm, one could use GURPS Castle Falkenstein and GURPS IN to 
transplant the excellent faerie rules into IN.  Hell would probably 
have access to Glamour through the tithe paid to them.

As for transformation I've been toying with writing a Song of 
Permanence, something that makes other Songs last longer.  Combined 
with the Song of Transference it could make a really nice curse.
- -- 


Timothy, Angel of Rambling
Ofanite of Creation
ArchRival of Mathus
If you have time to kill, why not kill it at 
http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: IN> Remnant question

Hey, could someone refresh my memory about the special
problems Remnant Kyriotates face?

It's been addressed, right?

:)

Moe

=====
In Nomine stuff:
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html
Everything else (not that there is, right now): 
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html
Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:45:45 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Grigori

At 1:06 PM +0930 10/12/00, gnezda wrote:
>Just wondering, what would be the resonance of a Grigori, and what would
>happen if one Fell?

According to the Apocryph-- er, GURPS: In Nomine, the resonance of a 
Grigori is sensation, for lack of a better word. A Fallen Grigori is 
a Skulker.

In Canon, there is no word on any of this.

>Indeed, could they even Fall (perhaps they've
>already Fallen, or else contact with humanity has removed so much of
>their Divinity that they can't Fall or Redeem anymore?)

In about eight weeks, I'm going to have a novel I'll want you to read. <wg>
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:46:35 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Remnant question

At 9:35 PM -0700 10/11/00, Maurice Lane wrote:
>Hey, could someone refresh my memory about the special
>problems Remnant Kyriotates face?
>
>It's been addressed, right?

Well, complete destruction *is* a problem, yes....
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:54:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Matt Walsh <walshmp@dms.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Remnant question

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Maurice Lane wrote:
> Hey, could someone refresh my memory about the special
> problems Remnant Kyriotates face?

What problems?  Remnants only happen if a Celestial loses all Celestial
Forces, but still has a Vessel.  (Or is it a Role?  Hmm...)  Those Kyrios
that have Vessels should become Remnants the same way that everyone else
does; those without just don't become Remnants.  Similar remarks for
Shedim, except to my knowledge there are no Shedim with Vessels.

I suppose that if you wanted to be tricky about it, you could have a
Kyriotate lose all Celestial Forces while possessing several hosts.  I'm
guessing that the hosts would come to, have disturbing visions of the
world through other viewpoints as the shattered Forces try to reconnect,
and return to normal once the time limit for their possession expires.
								Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:03:42 -0600
From: Tim Groth <Timothy.Groth@colorado.edu>
Subject: IN> Is this list being moved?

I just read the Daily Illuminator, and it mentioned the move of some 
of the mailing lists to eGroups.  Is this one moving as well?
- -- 


Timothy, Angel of Rambling
Ofanite of Creation
ArchRival of Mathus
If you have time to kill, why not kill it at 
http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:58:45 -0700
From: Sean McCarthy <thealien@dangerzone.org>
Subject: Re: IN> Is this list being moved?

I just read that.

Wow.

I didn't know the company was that hard up.  Blah.  Depressing.

Sean

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:47:03 +0100
From: "Laurent" <cossonl@logica.com>
Subject: IN> God's Creation

Michael wrote:
> Canon never comes out and says how God originated (and
> probably never will).

Earl wrote:
> That would be smart.  In all the monotheistic theologies,
> it's pretty clear-cut: God *HAS* no origin.

Ok, I checked my books quickly last night, and you're right, I DID get mixed
up with the French version. The INS/MV main book starts with a quick
description* of the Creation which looks a bit like this: Around 16 billion
years ago, out of non-space and infinite void, appeared an idea, a concept,
a thought that started spreading from one end of its creation to the other.
This basic idea, not even aware of its own birth, felt one day the need to
exist... (that's the short version)


My apologies, I wasn't intending to scratch Canon.

Laurent.

* Actually, the book (well known for its sarcastic content) starts with "At
the beginning, God created the sky and the earth. And while it was at it, it
created itself".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:56:38 -0500
From: Andrew Hackard <hackard@io.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Is this list being moved?

At 10:58 PM 11/10/00 -0700, Sean McCarthy wrote:
>I didn't know the company was that hard up.  Blah.  Depressing.

Not a matter of being hard up, just that we have one-and-a-fraction Web 
people (Keith is full time, Kira isn't) to cope with the entire site, 
including Pyramid, JTAS, and Warehouse 23.  It's daunting.  I've used 
eGroups for quite a while, and I really like it, and I have to agree 
that moving whatever lists are moving will make them easier to handle 
for the subscribers; eGroups is a LOT friendlier than majordomo.

I don't know which lists are moving, however, so I can't say whether 
this one in particular is.

- --
Choosing between Bush and Gore is like choosing  |  hackard@io.com
whether to be circumcised with a nail file or a  |  AIM: Talthybias
spork -- either way, I'm not interested.         |  ICQ: 19083015

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:39:04 -0400
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Is this list being moved?

At 10:58 PM -0700 10/11/00, Sean McCarthy wrote:
>I just read that.
>
>Wow.
>
>I didn't know the company was that hard up.  Blah.  Depressing.
>
>Sean

If we move, I just hope it doesn't mean we'll start getting eGroups's 
patented advertising in each message.
- -- 
I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, capitalization errors, and 
extremely slow response times should be treated as precious things, 
not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. Neener.

Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:34:50 -0500
From: Earl Wajenberg <earlw@mc.com>
Subject: Re: IN> "Whaddya mean, I can't have monocrys?" (Take two...)

What's "monocrys"?

Earl

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:26:52 -0400
From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" <neelk@cswcasa.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Transformation & Glamour

Earl Wajenberg <earlw@mc.com> wrote:
> 
> Two staples of fantasy are transformations and glamour.  What does
> In Nomine provide here?  The Song of Form only lasts 6 minutes, max,
> and the Numina Corpi are a very limited selection, and likewise
> brief.

IMC, I changed the Celestial Song of Form so that it had a permanent
duration. Basically, the way I figured this was that in fiction,
demons typically can grant the following wishes:

o Create illusions (Ethereal Light)
o Restore youth  (Corporeal Entropy)
o Heal injuries and diseases (Corporeal Healing)
o Make someone fall in lust with the bargainer (Ethereal Attraction)
o Grant wealth (easy to do w/ resonance) 
o Give the bargainer great beauty 

Of these, restoring or granting physical beauty was the only one
impossible in the main rules, and making the Celestial Song of Form
permanent fixed that. Sure, it let angels and demons change their
shapes easily, which was okay with me.


- --
Neel Krishnaswami
neelk@cswcasa.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:41:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Gant <gantr@NKU.EDU>
Subject: Re: IN> This is not my fault. This is not my fault. This is not my fault.

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Galen Silversmith wrote:

> Thats it.  In Nomine:Toon, with Muppet PCs.  I just need a con to run this
> at (preferably with people I will never have to explain myself too, again).
> 
> (Maybe Kermit and Fozzy WERE twins, until the fall and one became Malakim....)

So which one became the Malakite?

Richard Gant
PS:  I snorted milk onto my keyboard when I read the writeup of Kermit the
Ethereal.  The only reason I haven't joined in the general festivities is
that *everybody* beat me to the punch with *everything* I was going to
say.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto:
     http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/
The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site:
     http://returners.simplenet.com/
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1847
********************************

The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated.
All rights reserved.