From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Oct 15 04:56:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01836 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:56:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id EAA18085 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:55:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:55:01 -0500 Message-Id: <200010150955.EAA18085@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1850 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, October 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1850 In this digest: Re: IN> Remnant question Re: IN> I have so many names... (Re: The Devil's Names) Re: IN> Introduction Re: IN> question about a Gabrielite rite Re: IN> Remnant question IN> Game Query Re: IN> I have so many names... (Re: The Devil's Names) IN> Yawhew's Ethereal Family Re: IN> Introduction IN> I have so many names.... Re: IN> Yawhew's Ethereal Family IN> Introductions IN> Song of Extension & Song of Permanence Re: IN> Angel of... pweewww! Re: IN> Introductions Re: IN> Remnant question Re: IN> Introductions Re: IN> Introductions Re: IN> Introductions Re: IN> Ethereal Yaweh Re: IN> Introductions IN> In case you still haven't subscribed to Pyramid! IN> All Hell-Breaks loose (adventure seed) Re: IN> All Hell-Breaks loose (adventure seed) Re: IN> In case you still haven't subscribed to Pyramid! Re: IN> In case you still haven't subscribed to Pyramid! Re: IN> In case you still haven't subscribed to Pyramid! IN> Book recommendation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 Oct 2000 03:27:04 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Remnant question On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Maurice Lane wrote: >>12 Oct 2000 17:55 David Edelstein wrote: >Maurice Lane wrote: >>> Hey, could someone refresh my memory about the >>> special >>> problems Remnant Kyriotates face? >>Yeah -- they don't exist. That's quite a problem. ;) >So I've gathered, alas. Oh, well, so much for the it's odd: looking through my copy of In Nomine, Kyriotates and Shedim get yanked back to their respective celestial realms if they don't find a new host in time. where's the errata that says they discorporate? is it in the reprinted In Nomine? "When sparks fly, robots die." --Bill Dwyer, BATTLEBOTS announcer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:31:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I have so many names... (Re: The Devil's Names) - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Other possible faces in In Nomine he's had a hand in (I know most if > all of > these are Ethereals but nothing is as it seems in In Nomine often) > > Loki > Ymir > Xixiopotec > Tezaticopla > Tiamat > Arawn > Ghede > Hades > Ravanna One correction here. Ghede is actually the chief Loa in voudoun and is in no way analogous to the western devil. He is associated with the dead, but is mainly a force for life (death as part of the natural cycle, making the way for new life, that sort of thing); the Afro-caribbean belief systems don't see death as necessarily being evil. The less reputable variants of voudoun (equivalent to western black magic traditions) list Ghede's "evil twin" Baron Samedi as the chief Loa. This figure is more like the devil we know. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:42:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Introduction Introductions, huh? Well, better late than never. My name is Michael Walton -- just Mike to you, my mother calls me Michael. You've probably seen my comments on the list quite a few times, but I assure you that I'm less gabby in person. I live in the world's biggest small town (San Antonio, Texas) where I'm underpaid in a document conversion company. My gaming experience includes D&D, Traveler, Shadowrun, Champions, Cyberpunk 2020, Mage, Mind's Eye Theatre (White Wolf's live-action system), Immortal: the Invisible War (my favorite system after IN) and OmniQuest, a universal system of my own design. In addition to the obvious, of course. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 2000 03:44:23 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> question about a Gabrielite rite On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:08:34 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 4:51 AM +0000 10/13/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>[...] Gabriel's "kill a demon with fire" rite, so i'm asking here to >>settle the dispute (it's happily non-violent): does the angel have to soul- >>kill a demon in this fashion, or can simply vessal killing a demon harvest >>the Essence the rite grants? >Either will suffice. Soul killing gives a nicer "warm fuzzy" feeling in >the angel's heart, of course. O:> naturally. i was sure soul-killing would work, but thought the rite would be a tad more difficult than most if it were the only way to garner the essence. i'm glad both work; i'll tell my finacee. >>side question: is this one of those rites you can perform for essence more >>than once a day? >No -- those are clearly marked. (I believe Malphas has one.) i'll flip through and note each of those, then. thanks for being LE, Beth :) -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:02:30 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Remnant question - -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > it's odd: looking through my copy of In Nomine, > Kyriotates and Shedim get yanked back to their respective > celestial realms if they don't find a new host in time. > where's the errata that says they discorporate? is it in > the reprinted In Nomine? If they lose all their Celestial Forces, they no longer have a celestial form, and they have no vessel to corporealize in. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:53:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Game Query Anybody on this list reside in the Austin/San Marcos/San Antonio area and running or looking for an IN campaign? This isn't an idle question; I'd love to play (or run), but there aren't many players where I am. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:57:41 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> I have so many names... (Re: The Devil's Names) >Actual names for Lucifer are ... >The Demiurge Slight clarification. In Platonic philosophy, the Demiurge is the Creative force. That is, it is the (possibly intelligent) facet of God which actually does the miraculous/physical work of creating matter and energy. It may also be the will to create. Eli is doubtless intimately familiar with the Demiurge in any campaign where it exists. He might even *be* this being. Under such a circumstance, for Lucifer to claim this title might be in character, but it would be a lie. On the other hand, in various Gnostic philosophies the Demiurge, while also the creator of the Universe, is also either the creator of evil, a middle state, or the same thing as God(there are apparently quite a few Gnostic philosophies on the issue, putting the Demiurge in various degrees of opposition to God). Under these views Lucifer could have a reasonable claim to the name, although not necessarily the creative power. >-Charlemagne William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:55:39 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Yawhew's Ethereal Family > This is the question of whether or not God was an ethereal. I'm > wondering if the tribal gods of the early Jews were ethereals as far > as canon is concerned, as well as how other folks out there treat it > in they're games. If they were ethereals that would mean that Yaweh > was as well. I'm pretty sure its CDaU if God is actually Yaweh, as > to keep the ethereal God theory in CDaU. One of the great contradictions of cannon is that Allah (the God) has children according to Superiors 3, he also has a wife according to this list (Sophia). In all likelihood one must seriously question exactly where these beings stand in regards to Heaven and what exactly Heaven thinks of them. IMHO Sophia: The Godess of Wisdom believes deeply that her husband EL (wherever he went) ascended to a higher plane of existence and started creating the angels to liberate humanity. She wept tears hotly that Uriel her child would do the things he has done and the same for Lucifer. It is believed Blandine and Laurence are sympathetic to the tragic maiden and it is said that as she waits for her husband to set things right in the universe she has a place of honor at Blandine's tower and serves as a prophetess at many courts though few Ethereals would take kindly to her identity being known. (Of course Blandine and Laurence don't believe her but the latter's melts to a woman in need) Allah's children: the Pagan god that Allah chose to manifest as is merely a corrupted view of him in laurence's views but unfortunately Khalid despite his orders to destroy the beings who so annoy his faith with their question...a number of his followers believe they are actually his children and either politely overlook them (as they are angels in their view) or consider them fountains of wisdom in a almost Cult like fashion that would infuriate Khalid. Still they consider Allah to be ignoring them in a hideous display of unfatherly brutality. Explanations for this * Yves's theologian Olav, Mercurian Master of Knowledge It is quite possible that the Almight absorbs deities that become sufficently transcendant to inspire mankind to Heaven. I believe the process is currently underway in India. * Eli, Archangel of Creation Hey if God gets around, it's none of my business. He's a good dad though, just busy * Dominic, Archangel of Judgement HERETIC LYING ETHEREALS * Mustav, Cherub Vassal of Dreams They are asleep and dreaming of their love of God but have yet to percieve the reality... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:19:24 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Introduction Michael Walton wrote: > Immortal: the Invisible War (my favorite system after IN) Wow, someone else actually bought that one. I even ran a short-lived campaign. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:05:22 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> I have so many names.... > Among those who take the Anti-Christ seriously as a religious > figure, he is generally supposed to be, at most, Lucifer's > human or semi-human son, not Lucifer himself. Most often, > he's not even a blood relative, but a purely human, diabolically > inspired, false messiah. Forgive me if I go with jesus and saying the judgement will come like a theif in the Night but I don't discount anything. The anti-christ according to various interpretations could be * A Diabolically inspired false messiah.... Basically a human false prophet of great proportion * A metaphor for an evil influcence. The Catholic Church to a number of cultures * The literal son of Satan A being who is created by the Devil using one of his forces if you will * The Devil himself Basically IMO if the Devil did come it would be as God, a human woman filled with the offspring of the most evil being in the universe as he exists in both Hell and on Earth. And so many other possibilites. > Another for your list is "Prince of Darkness." > > Another analog from paganism would be Set, of the Egyptians. > I would have suggested Nergal or Ereshkigal for Mesopotamia, > rather than Tiamat. > Apophis as well. True enough. However villians are in no small ammount. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:25:49 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Yawhew's Ethereal Family Charles Phipps wrote: > One of the great contradictions of cannon is that Allah (the God) has > children according to Superiors 3, he also has a wife according to this list> (Sophia). Incorrect. There are ethereal spirits who CLAIM that God was once one of them (and as in the S3 quote, that he even fathered some of them), but it is not established that this is the truth. As for Sophia, according to myth she was alternately the offspring of or another facet of God, but that also is not necessarily true in canon. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:16:27 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Introductions > Now my turn! Everyone polka! *breaks out his accordian* Weird Al...HIT IT! > My name is Sean McCarthy and I was born at the same time as D&D. My > grandmother's efforts and my immersion in a church that said RPGs were evil > kept me out of them until I was about eight. Then I realized that the RPGs > weren't inherently evil, but the church swore the two were incompatible so > I ditched the church. (No real point ... if they're right, no amount of > attending, believing and caring would save me from the Hell my polyhedral > dice were condemning me to.) > > I love IN. From the very first hint it would be released I was studying > what I could of INS/MV and hoping. Much, much later IN came and it was > good. So now when I'm not writing monitoring software for a major ISP here > in the CityState of Los Angeles, I continue trying to get to play or run IN > outside of thrice-yearly local gaming cons. And I threaten people with my > Demon Prince of Madness and Habbalah writeups. ;) Oh well ironically enough In Nomine seemed like a cool game to me because it dealt with spiritual issues seriously... an agnostic friend showed it me because he thought it was just his cup of tea and it would be mine as well... (Minister to be) My name is Charles Phipps, I'm about nineteen years of age. I am from Ashland, Kentucky and went to Catholic School most of my life though I'm "officially" Presbyterian (more non-denominational though I've considered converting to Catholicism on more than one occasion). I am the DM of most of my games from Werewolf: the Apcolypse to Vampire: The Masquerade to Star Wars to old fashioned D&D. My favorite movie is Jurassic Park followed by The Phantom Menace (I know how horrid to have it above the original triology!). In Nomine is my favorite though. Sadly the one game I got going was broken up by my agnostic friend having a crisis of faith (he didn't feel it was right to play a game with a character who knew something he didn't believe or no existed but I think it had something to do with the fact the other player was his girlfriend he just broke up with). Thus I must play and discuss online. My favorite Archangel is Gabrielle whom my character has a crush on and my favorite Demon princess is Lilith with same (odd I know). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:31:11 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Song of Extension & Song of Permanence Song of Extension All 3 versions of this Song work the same way, but are usable only on Songs of they're appropriate type. Experiments in crossing realms has resulted in Symphonic feedback loops and other unpleasantness, which has caused even Vapula to stop such tests. The target Song's duration is extended by the essence spent times check digit. The unit is the same as that of the modified Song. This Song is relatively common, found among all Superiors. Essence Requirement: 2 Degree of Disturbance: cd x 2 Song of Permanence Again all 3 versions of this Song work the same way and are usable only on Songs with the same realm. The Song that is targeted by this Song has its effect become permanent. This only works on Songs that actually have a duration, not just an instantaneous effects (such as the Song of Entropy). If this Song works the other Song's effect becomes permanent. This Song can reverse its own effect, thus ending the modified Song. Although all Superiors have access to this Song it isn't given out very often because of the essence requirements. Essence Requirement: 20 Degree of Disturbance: cd x cd of modified song x 10 These aren't play tested yet. But I think they'd be useful. Comments appreciated. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 2000 04:49:43 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of... pweewww! On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Michael Walton wrote: >--- -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >> Muskiel, >> Cherub of Animals, >> Angel of Skunks > > I'm really concerned about you people... o;> Why, thank-you :) Now, as the odious aroma somehow filters into the house I'm sitting, I am in the perfect frame of mind for part two: background. - ---- Muskiel is an ancient Cherub of Jordi, having existed since before the Fall. He has been Word-bound so long that his celestial form has permanently altered to that of a giant male skunk with enormous feathered wings; he is surrounded by monochromatic halos. At the time of creation, after Jordi had been granted the Word of Animals, the first Kyriotate began delegating servitors to each kind of living creature, just as he does today. Muskiel originally served dutifully on what later became the North American continent in many puma vessals, guiding the cats and watching over them. In his time there, he encountered skunks aplenty--their spore, their odor, their presence. After the first time he was sprayed (several days later, actually), Muskiel returned to his Archangel Jordi in shame, bearing the corpses of a skunk family in his jaws. "Lord of Beasts," Muskiel entreated, "these odious creatures are quick to flight, stealthy, and like rats, ferocious when cornered. Their uniqueness is in their stench, whose match I've never found. Indeed, it was so awful that in rage and despair that I killed these. Such should not be allowed to happen again. I beg you to allow me to become their guardian, that I may ensure their protection from other creatures." Jordi, aware of its Servitor's repentence and the need for an Angel of Skunks nodded its many heads--for at the moment it was occupying a herd of wildebeasts--and soon thereafter sponsored Muskiel for the Word of Skunks. The Cherub has served vigilently and contritely ever since. Unlike his master, who would sooner see humanity eradicated, or slaughtered back to "manageable" levels, Muskiel understands the need to foster responsibility in humans, encouraging them to compassion rather than ignorantly lashing out at things which displease them. In the millinia since attaining his Word, Muskiel has walked the earth primarily in a skunk vessal, and secondarily in a human one to foster good-will among other people toward humans. Together with Servitors of Flowers, he discovered how to use tomato paste to remove skunk scent, and he shares this knowledge freely with humans who lament their stinking selves after encountering skunks. Those people advocating violence against skunks after having been sprayed or driven through an area of skunk roadkilll find themselves repeatedly being sprayed or otherwise encountering skunk posteriors thanks to Muskiel--until such time as those people recant and choose other methods of ridding themselves of that awful smell. Currently, Muskiel maintains a Role in Los Angeles as a veterinarian-- with all those cars, there's plenty of roadkill, and some of it is invariably skunk. Muskiel works to rescue the live ones, as well as giving medical care to a host of people's pets--a good way to keep track of how humans are treating his Superior's Word. In his Role, Muskiel has contacts among the ASPCA, as well as PETA and other animal rights groups. Angelically, Muskiel associates with the Angel of Badgers, Wolverines, Weasels, and Opposums, as well as various other Animals and Flowers Servitors. Angels of the Wind find him amusing, and will rouse themselves for his assistance on occasion for the "merriment" Muskiel can provide; Muskiel himself doesn't mind cavorting with Janus' angels, so long as demons wind up dead as a result. He does not, however, get on well with most Kyriotates of Jordi--something about watching over an insectovore for so long has fixed bugs in his mind as "food." He loathes automobiles as much as rifles, and takes particular delight in using hi! s Attunement on an area where roadkill is common, even if skunks are not the primary targets in such accidents--in the hopes that it will cut down on traffic. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:56:34 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Introductions >My favorite Archangel is Gabrielle whom my character has a crush on and my >favorite Demon princess is Lilith with same (odd I know). Not to mention dangerous. Well I guess I'll introduce myself. My name is Tim Groth and I'm 19. I started role playing in the first or second grade with a simple game me and my friends developed. We moved "up" to AD&D after that, and then got into GURPS. I briefly tried WoD but found it boring and mechanically offensive. IN is my favorite setting, and I like its mechanics as well. There are two groups I game with here (University of Colorado at Boulder). One isn't so into IN, one finds it offensive (he's a former fundie, who found at one time Jack Chick tracts perfectly reasonable). The other prefer GURPS for mechanics reasons, which is why I need to pick up GURPS IN. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 2000 05:23:08 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Remnant question On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:02:30 -0500 David Edelstein wrote: >If they lose all their Celestial Forces, they no longer have a celestial >form, and they have no vessel to corporealize in. ah, right. got confused between the time limit on acquiring a new host and becoming a remnant. "Okay, so far Gherbod Fleming has written two character with Humanity 6. One has a Rogue Nature, the other an Idealist Nature. One seems like a generally nice person, except for her slight problem with frenzy which results in her killing people; the other seems like a hypocritical, selfish monster." --Kish Moore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Introductions I guess it's my turn, now. My name's Richard Gant, I'm 27 years old, and I got into this money sucking (but extremely fun) hobby when I was 12. I started with 2nd Edition Gamma World, then went to Star Frontiers, Basic D&D and then AD&D (in basically that order). Much to the distress of my fiancee, I collect RPGs voraciously (remember that "money-sucking leech" line?). The short list of games I've played is still pretty long. Everything above plus Doctor Who and Star Trek (the old FASA games in both cases), Space: 1889, Deadlands (The Wasted West and Hell on Earth), Abyss, Earthdawn, Call of Cthulhu, Champions (HERO system and Fuzion versions), Cyberpunk 2020, Mekton Z, Teenagers From Outer Space, Aberrant, pretty much everything in the World of Darkness (at least once), Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Tales From The Floating Vagabond, TORG, three or four homebrewed rules RPGs, Waste World, and (of course) In Nomine. I GM/DM/ST just about everything I play, because nobody else wants to (and I enjoy being in charge - my fiancee likes to claim I have a God complex). I'm a Senior at Northern Kentucky University, and probably will be for at least another year (I just dropped a Secondary Education major and added Computer Science - not fun, given that I've just about finished my History major). I grew up around the Army, and have yet to live in a single place for longer than eight years. I think that Michael and Uriel are my favorite Archangels. Belial wins hands down for my favorite Demon Prince. That may tell you a great deal about me. :) Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:05:48 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Introductions Oh, all right. I'll hop on the intro bandwagon here... My name is Erich S. Arendall - the 'S' stands for savings! I'm 25 and have been an avid and rabid role-player since I was about 13 - much to the chagrin of my mother. I've played too many games to list, but have a fondness for In Nomine (naturally!), GURPS, Wraith (one of my favorite concepts) and Mekton Zeta. I'm both player and GM... except for Mekton Zeta, which no one ever wants to run but me! I've just moved to Lake Bluff, IL and am looking for a new gaming group, seeing as a commute to Houston to game would not be the easiest thing every weekend. I'm a budding fiction writer (nothing published - yet), and a monthly columnist for RPGnet. Professionally, I'm a Web Developer; I'm the man behind the curtain, rather than in front. I also maintain the Touched by an Impudite website (the Superiors section is back!) and Book of Kings PBEM. Favorite Archangels: Eli (cause he's sooo cool) and Jean (every techhead likes Jean!) Favorite Princes: Asmodeus (you'd think a prince of "the Game" would be a little more fun-loving, though) and Vapula (every techhead likes Vapula!)