From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 16 02:03:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA30198 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:03:57 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id CAA24212 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:02:50 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:02:50 -0500 Message-Id: <200010160702.CAA24212@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1851 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 16 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1851 In this digest: IN> superiors1-4 Re: IN> superiors1-4 Re: IN> Introduction Re: IN> Introduction Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful. Re: IN> Introduction IN> Random thought -- Bujold and IN IN> Re: Yawhew's Ethereal Family Re: IN> Angel of... pweewww! Re: IN> Introductions Re: IN> Random thought -- Bujold and IN IN> Archangel of Friendship IN> Seraphim Discord IN> I take no responsibility for this one. You all brought it upon yourself. Re: IN> Song of Extension & Song of Permanence Re: IN> Song of Extension & Song of Permanence IN> Now, the Demon of Stale Bong Water Can't Hope To Do This, But Still... Re: IN> I take no responsibility for this one. You all brought it upon yourself. Re: IN> Angel of... pweewww! Re: IN> Introductions Re: IN> Song of Extension & Song of Permanence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:44:07 BST From: "nick sands" Subject: IN> superiors1-4 wow. wwooww. i got the four books in one bundle from a not so local game store about 24 hours ago. i just put then down after reading each one. i like a lot!!! i would like to say a BIG thankyou to all the staff at sjgames and all the freelance writers and artists that put stuff in the 4 books. now i finally like blandine, i never did until now. and kobal... what can i say!! when is the next book due for release? who is in it? those are the two most pressing questions i can think of. also, as a side note, which is a little O.T, i have now got a home page at long last and would like to share the addy with you all. please take a moment to visit it please, there are a couple of IN bits there along with much other stuff. thankyouandgoodnight Nick _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:39:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> superiors1-4 On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, nick sands wrote: > also, as a side note, which is a little O.T, i have now got a home page at > long last and would like to share the addy with you all. please take a > moment to visit it please, there are a couple of IN bits there along with > much other stuff. We might be more likely to visit it if you give us the URL, Nick. :-) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental. Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the 2nd god coefficient. A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the scope of this message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:46:20 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Introduction David Edelstein wrote: > Michael Walton wrote: > > Immortal: the Invisible War (my favorite system after IN) > > Wow, someone else actually bought that one. I even ran a short- > lived campaign. I have a copy, and from time to time I read it and am impressed by the setting. There are only two problems: first, I can't seem to find the rules of the game in the book. Second, I have no idea how to introduce my PCs into the universe -- there's just so much there. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:08:17 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> Introduction Oh hello. :) Welcome to the list. My name is Charles Smith. I'm a 19-year-old college student in Sacramento, California who got interested in In Nomine over the past summer. :) My hobbies are reading, writing fiction, and sleeping, in more or less that order. I find that my favorite Archangels are Novalis and Christopher, and my favorite Demon Princes are Nybbas and Kobal. I'm not sure why. The concept of Novalis just appealed to me, and I've always liked kids. As for the Princes, I guess Nybbas because he represents the modern media culture and Kobal because he can screw over all the Princes and, more or less get away with it. :P Anyways, glad to have you here. :) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:38:18 -0400 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Snide jokes aside, this could be useful. On Wed, Oct 11, 2000 at 12:13:11PM -0500, David Edelstein wrote: > Cows should have 2 Corporeal Forces. No ethereal, no celestial. Very > few animals will have Ethereal or Celestial Forces. I would have said 3 Corporeal forces, no ethereal, no celestial, one or two "free" points of Will (for stubborn cows). I guess cats and dogs are among the "very few" animals with Eth or Cel forces? According to the core rules, dogs have 1 Ethereal force, and cats have 1 Celestial force. Of course, the whole forces thing kinda breaks down with animals. IMHO an elephant ought to have 4 Corp, 1 Eth, 0 Cel, but that gives them 5 forces, as much as a mundane human. Maybe 3 Corp, 1 Eth, 0 Cel, with the Corp heavily loaded to Str? Maybe a rule of thumb might be that animals can't have forces in all three realms. You could then have a chimp with 2 Corp, 2 Eth, 0 Cel (being just as strong and smart as a human, but lacking that certain, as the French say, "I don't know what" that adds up to sentience.) - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:46:19 -0400 From: Andrew Dawson Subject: Re: IN> Introduction I ran I:tIW as well. It may have a few interesting tidbits for use in In Nomine, but it also tried to incorporate all things and came out feeling illogical and unwieldy (though with cool computer-somethinged art). It also had a horrible critical failure rate (at its worst 1 in 3 rolls critically failed at a convention game I was in). There is a second edition with more streamlined rules, but hardcopy support seems to have been dropped (there may be new stuff at the website, but the name escapes me at the moment). Thanks, Andy At 09:46 AM 10/15/2000 -0400, Krishnaswami, Neel wrote: >David Edelstein wrote: >> Michael Walton wrote: >> > Immortal: the Invisible War (my favorite system after IN) >> Wow, someone else actually bought that one. I even ran a short- >> lived campaign. > >I have a copy, and from time to time I read it and am impressed >by the setting. There are only two problems: first, I can't seem >to find the rules of the game in the book. Second, I have no idea >how to introduce my PCs into the universe -- there's just so much >there. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:57:39 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> Random thought -- Bujold and IN "Bujold" is "Lois McMaster Bujold", noted SF author and writer of one of my most favorite SF series, the 'Vorkosigan' series. For further info, see http://www.dendarii.com. Those of you who aren't Bujoldians most likely won't get the references without reading the books. (So go read 'em. All of 'em. They're Really Really Good!) So I was walking along today and was suddenly struck by a random thought -- how many of Bujold's characters can we cast as Superiors? Or, failing that, servitors? For me at least, doing this helps me round out their personalities from archetypes to people (one of Bujold's greatest skills, which is why I'm borrowing it, cause it *ain't* one of mine...), even if it means changing the tone of their writeups a bit. The first one I thought of was: 1) Novalis = Vicereine the Countess Captain Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan (I *like* how impressive her full name sounds, so sue me) OK, now this one was a slam-dunk. Indeed, if they wrote Novalis as being more like Cordelia, it'd be a small step *up* for the Archangel of Flowers... it'd still show her dedication to peace, understanding, putting the welfare of individual people before abstract principles, etc. and so forth -- *without* having one millimeter of bend, give, or anything else in her spine. Admittedly, Novalis-as-currently-written isn't supposed to either... but some people can't shake themselves of the notion that she's a wimp. OTOH, ever since I started using a mental image of Cordelia as a starting point for my mental Novalis-template, I have *not* had that problem. IMO, Cordelia is one of the single most remarkable characters in SF *period*, she practically defies description. (Cordelia has spent the entire series *always* getting her own way, against the opposition of some of the most bull-headed militarists in Known Space. And only twice did she actually have to use the last resort of violence -- and only once was that violence lethal. Admittedly, it was most *spectacularly* lethal -- but the beheading of Count Vordarian ended an entire civil war, weeks sooner that it would have otherwise. Barrayar, her adopted homeworld, is the kind of place that's had three civil wars for their last three Emperors. It's also undergone *severe* reversion to peace and stability ever since she showed up on it.. admittedly, her husband deserves his share of the credit for that as well.) Some classic Cordelia moments: (after escaping from her original captivity by the Barrayarans... an escape during which her rescuers got one of her capters crippled for life) - ----- Cordelia leaned her forehead against the cold window, and wept silently for her enemies. _Shards Of Honor_, Lois McMaster Bujold, p. 122 - ----- (upon being held prisoner by a torturing sadist, who has just ordered/coerced his mentally disturbed orderly to rape her) - ------ "Any last words, 'Captain' Naismith?" Vorrutyer inquired sarcastically. "Or have you finally run out of words?" She stared at Bothari, shaken by a pity almost like love. He seemed nearly in a trance, lust without pleasure, anticipation without hope. Poor sod, Cordelia thought to herself. What a mess they've made of you. No longer fencing for points, she searched her heart for words not for Vorrutyer but for Bothari. Some healing words -- I would not add to his madness [...] "I believe," she said slowly at last, "that the tormented are very close to God. I'm sorry, Sergeant." _Shards Of Honor_, Lois McMaster Bujold, p. 139 (n.b. -- as it turned out, Sergeant Bothari did *not* rape her. And later in the series, after therapy, served her and her son loyally and honorably for nineteen years. Thus showing that a word from Flowers *can* work miracles... even if Bothari never was entirely right in the head again, he could still be helped greatly. And was. Incidentally, Vorrutyer's words above are the last words he ever spoke. Then again, that wasn't Cordelia's idea, it was Bothari's. Cordelia's moment of willful lethality comes in the *next* book, _Barrayar_.) - ------ 2) Dominic = Captain Simon Illyan, Chief of Barrayaran Imperial Security Again, this one was pretty bleeping obvious. Simon and Dominic both have the same job...counter-intelligence, aka "keeping track of *everybody*". Simon was an obsessive-compulsive paranoid of the first water; he never forgot a single thing, lived the life of a monk, had his life story in the dictionary under the word "workaholic", and had it as his life's mission to make sure that all others in Imperial service Played It Exactly By The Rules. While simultaneously breaking every rule there was in his own right, 'cause that was part of his bailiwick as spook-in-chief. I mean, we're talking about the man who kept a phone tap on the house of his best friend and boss for thirty years... admittedly, that was by his boss's *request*, but... Yet if Simon were Dominic, nobody would have cause to scorn Judgement at all, unlike some angels and some players today. The innocent had very little to fear from him. Unless they worked for him. *g* Simon wasn't no saint, and could often be damned annoying.. but was a thoroughly honorable man in his own way, with integrity as unshakable as [the next guy on this list]. Simon is a great character study in how a man can be in a job that requires him to suspect everyone and everything, and *does* suspect [almost] everyone and everything... without turning spiteful, or hateful, or losing touch with his humanity. Even if he had to suppress it for a long while, he still never *lost* it. And his friends knew it. (the Countess, talking to her son Mark about Simon's having been an absolute prick to him recently -- in the middle of a five-star political and diplomatic crisis) - ------ "It's days like these poor Simon would sell his soul to make the world hold still for a little while," the Countess admitted. "His attention isn't just spread right now, it's splintered. I have a certain sympathy for him." _Mirror Dance_, Lois McMaster Bujold, p. 339 - ----- Shades of Dominic -- Dom would give anything just to make the universe *stop* for a few minutes, so he could catch up and make sure that everything was where it was supposed to be... but things keep *moving*... (Simon, at the end of a successful investigation -- having discovered and proven that one of his most trusted subordinates has betrayed his trust, and having just discharged him from Imperial Security) - ----- "It doesn't matter now." He fumbled at his collar. One [ImpSec insignia] tore the green fabric, coming off in his shaking hands. He thrust the pins blindly at Illyan. "There. You win." Illyan's hand closed over them. "God save me," he said softly, "from another such victory." _Memory_, Lois McMaster Bujold, p. 90 - ----- This is how Judgement *should* be seen IMO. My own mental vision of Dominic has him *not* enjoying his job, not at all. 3) Michael = Viceroy the Count Admiral Aral Vorkosigan (aka "The Butcher of Komarr") Again, little contest. From the prior shame that he was convicted of despite actually having been innocent (the Solstice Massacre, on Komarr, refers to a war crime that Aral *didn't* order done... which was, in fact, committed *against* his express orders), to the supremacy in combat and strategy on all levels from hand-to-hand up to entire wars, from the strictly honorable nature and unshakable integrity that was still capable of all the deceptive ruses and feints of war, from the galaxy-wide reputation as The Man With Whom Thou Simply Does Not Screw, from his original period in his youth where he gloried in combat to his older and wiser self who is weary deep in his soul of war yet still is instantly willing to fight (and win!) when necessary, this guy is Michael to a "T". Aral is *lethal*, and twice lethal, a guy who even twenty years after he retired as an admiral could still take charge of an entire space navy campaign and kick butts up one side and down the other. He built his reputation on faking the other side out of its socks, on taking the 'oblique approach', of the-ONLY-thing-you-can-predict-is-that-this-guy's-going-to-kick-your-butt-bu t-God-only-knows-which-way-the-killing-stroke-will-land-from... ... and yet his name is also synonymous with "integrity" with everyone who knows him (Save some of his enemies, who are *really* off base about him.), and his greatest desire is that when he finally finishes a war, nobody will have to fight a next one. Fully as much as his wife does, Aral deserves the credit for taking his home planet from barbarism to civilization. Admittedly, Aral Vorkosigan's writeup -- especially of him in his later years -- has him as being more weary of War than Michael, but then again Aral has a luxury Michael doesn't -- his wars are over (well, at least the *shooting* parts are over), and his current job is making sure that the next one doesn't start. Michael's still in the middle of his war, and it still needs finishing. And yes, he *did* marry Cordelia. Which is, subconsciously at least, where at least some of my inspiration for "Opposites Attract" came from. Ironic note -- and in the Vorkosiganverse at least, Simon Illyan is not only his best friend, but his senior-most subordinate. The two of them worked together like ham and eggs. Asides from some minor things, like Dr. Enrique Borgios = Heretic Vapula (can't be regular Vapula, 'cause Enrique doesn't have a mean bone in his body -- he's just terminally clueless and over-enthusiastic, to the point where he literally needs a keeper), ImpSec Bodyguard Class One Ludmilla Droushnakovi = (sort of) Zadkiel, right down to the part of being Novalis/Cordelia's protege, Emperor Gregor Vorbarra = Laurence(? -- still working here, doesn't quite fit, but the image of the young protege finally taking over from the old master... which is what Emperor Gregor finally did to his former Regent, Aral Vorkosigan is really stickign with me.), etc, etc, I haven't finshed any more. (a Gregor-quote that just hit me) - -------- "But... I think that I'm not the only fish who doesn't think about water. Gregor is routinely expected to endure daily pressures that would drive, well, me, to drink, madness, or downright lethal irritability. In return, he overestimates us, and we... scramble not to disappoint him." _A Civil Campaign_, Lois McMaster Bujold, p. 384 - -------- So. Comments? - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Re: Yawhew's Ethereal Family - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > One of the great contradictions of cannon is that Allah (the God) has > children according to Superiors 3, he also has a wife according to > this list > (Sophia). In all likelihood one must seriously question exactly > where these > beings stand in regards to Heaven and what exactly Heaven thinks of > them. Hmmm. That's problematical according to orthodox Islam. As they say, "God does not acquire a son." That's their objection to the idea of the divinity of Christ. I've never heard what muslims think about the idea of Allah having a wife, but I imagine that it would be about the same as their opinion of His having a son. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angel of... pweewww! - --- -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Michael Walton > wrote: > >--- -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > >> Muskiel, > >> Cherub of Animals, > >> Angel of Skunks Wow, a serious and well thought-out treatment of a character whom few players would take seriously! I like this one (and can probably find a use for him...). Of course, Muskiel's angelic friends raise the question; who and what is the Angel of Mustelids? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:03:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Introductions Oops! We were supposed to list favorite AA's and DP's, too? Heh, heh, my bad. My favorite Archangel is Zadkiel (I kinda like the "tough mom" thing). My favorite Prince is Kobal -- but, as someone with a degree in Mass Communications, I have a soft spot in my heart for Nybbas. And no, I won't post my age. No one my age should still be gaming. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Random thought -- Bujold and IN - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > 1) Novalis = Vicereine the Countess Captain Cordelia Naismith > Vorkosigan (I > *like* how impressive her full name sounds, so sue me) > > OK, now this one was a slam-dunk. Indeed, if they wrote Novalis as > being > more like Cordelia, it'd be a small step *up* for the Archangel of > Flowers... it'd still show her dedication to peace, understanding, > putting the welfare of individual people before abstract principles, > etc. and so forth -- *without* having one millimeter of bend, give, or > anything else in her spine. I don't know about that -- I think Novalis _should_ have some give to her spine. Not in the sense that you're thinking, though. More in the zenlike sense that's promoted in martial arts. As the Archangel of Flowers, Novalis would understand the lesson of the reed and the tree. The tree is unyielding and falls before the might of the hurricane. The reed bends and therefore survives. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:48:08 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: IN> Archangel of Friendship Although I should have been working on my site, I felt the urge to write this one up... Mihir Archangel of Friendship (Malakite) The world is my friend, and the enemies of my friend are my enemy. The first Angel of Friendship, a servitor of Andrealphus, fell with his superior during the Rebellion. Novalis's servitor, Iadiel, became the second Angel of Friendship, and was slain while both the Host and Horde fought Legion. It came to a shock for Mihir, a Malakite of Creation, when Eli suggested to the Seraphim Council that he become the third to gain a hold of the Word. It was then, in the late 1760's that Mihir became Wordbound. Scant years before Eli's disappearance, in 1953, Mihir was promoted to Archangel status - again, prompted by the Archangel of Creation. Dominic is now convinced that this is some sort of plan of the Mercurian Archangel's and Mihir was brought in for questioning by the Seraph. To the Archangel of Justice's annoyance, the younger Archangel simply replied, "Look, even if I knew where he went - and I don't - I couldn't tell you. I can't rat on a friend, you know. Especially when they've done nothing wrong." Though Mihir let the event slide, Dominic keeps a wary eye on the Malakite. DISSONANCE Angels of Mihir earn a note of dissonance for breaking the bond of trust with anyone they consider a friend, or anyone who considers them a friend. If someone who considers the angel a friend feels betrayed the angel gains a note of dissonance, however if the actions are explained and forgiven the note of dissonance disappears. These conditions do not apply when dealing with demons, however; Mihir's angels are not encouraged to offer the hand of friendship to a diabolical. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Seraphim (Restricted) Seraphim of Friendship know the Truth behind convictions of friends, they can immediately recognize false friends and likely back stabbers. Cherubim (Restricted) Faithful companions and friends, Mihir's Cherubim can attune to those who have a shared friendship with the angel at no penalty to their total number of attunements. Ofanim (Restricted) Wheels who serve Friendship become fast friends with others (pun intended). Upon friendly contact with an individual (handshake, pat on the back, etc.) they know the fastest way to gain that person's initial trust - though not always the easiest way. Elohim (Restricted) Objective and self-restrained but never heartless, An Elohite of Friendship can look into a person's eyes and know the emotions that may ruin friendships, they are especially adept at seeing the beginnings of jealousy, envy, and anger. Malakim (Restricted) Steadfast and sure, Virtues in the service of Mihir add their Ethereal Forces to the CD when invoking their resonance. Kyriotate (Restricted) Mihir's Dominations retain the knowledge of all the people their host can remember, as well as how their host feels about them and why. Mercurian (Restricted) Upon entering a room a Mercurian of Friendship can see the structures and strengths (or lack thereof) of friendships of all those present. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Soothe While this power is active the angel may dispell conflict between any two people. Both targets must be within the angel's sight. The target with the higher Will may try to resist. A Friend In Need Angels with this attunement can recognize Needs in others, much like Lilim. However, unlike the Tempters, angels with this attunement are encouraged to freely help their target escape the clutches of the Need. DISTINCTIONS Buddy Mihir's Buddies will never have their good natured ribbing taken as an insult. They're the type of angel that can tease all day long and have everyone (including the target) laugh along. Buddies find this extremely useful in resolving tension filled situations. Companion The angel knows, with a touch, who his target has most recently befriended, and when. Comrade Angels with this rank can know the exact location and state of health (including mental and emotional) of a number of those he considers friends equal to their Ethereal + Corporeal Forces. RELATIONS Allied: All (Eli, Michael and Yves are Allied with Mihir) Associated: None (David, Gabriel, Janus and Novalis are Associated with Mihir) Hostile: None (Dominic and Laurence are Hostile to Mihir) BASIC RITES * Resolve a conflict between two friends. * Introduce two people and insure that they "hit it off". CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 4 Mihir tries to be there for his servitors and all other angels. As such he has a habit of rushing over as soon as he hears the call... However, not even archangels can be everywhere at once, and he will become annoyed if called upon too often for minor problems that any angel could've handled. INVOCATION MODIFIERS +1 A letter between two friend +2 A gift from one friend to another +3 The blood of a betrayer +4 The angel's best friend +5 Two humans who have been friends for over 30 years +6 A group of friends who have remained friends for over 50 years ...On a completely side note, Touched by an Impudite Version 2 is almost complete, and has Superiors and Servitors to peruse once again.