From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Oct 19 11:10:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22296 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:10:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA11309 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:05:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:05:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200010191605.LAA11309@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1857 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1857 In this digest: IN> Dominic's confession to Himself Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) IN> Dominic's confessions, Day 13 RE: IN> Laurence and, well, not exactly Renaissance Faires Re: IN> Dominic takes confession, day 9 Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions: Upon one of the Days. Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions : Day 10 Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re:IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions: Upon one of the Days. IN> Dominic's Confessions: Day 11 Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Re:IN> Crusade replies. Re: IN> Jack Chick IN Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) IN> Stat+SKill Systems Re: IN> Stat+SKill Systems & an Adminny comment. IN> Just who did come up with it? Re: IN> Stat+SKill Systems & an Adminny comment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:03:27 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dominic's confession to Himself Beutiful. Absolutely beutiful. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:35:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:34:43 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) At 12:46 PM 10/18/00, you wrote:>... >>At any level, the subject is infinitely flexible, can >>roll up into a literal ball, and so forth: note that >...Ah, Maru Mari. >Would a Metroid be the ur-Impudite? Mother Brain as >Vapula, Ridley a Balseraph of Technology while Kraid >is a Djinn... and Samus Aran, of course, the Malakite >of Fire. >- -EDG Huh? :) >P.S. Very nice, Moe. May I steal it? But of course. Morgan (SAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of I WAS Going to Do Utility Belts and Magic Lasso Relics Next, But I Decided Against It. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:44:49 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Dominic's confessions, Day 13 Dominic allowed himself a sigh, soft enough so that it never escaped the folds of his robes, as he settled into his seat in the confessional. So many have abused the form of this, while ignoring the spirit behind it, the Most Holy thought as he waited with some trepidation to discover who it was that sat on the other side of the confessional screen. "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned," the one opposite Dominic said in a voice almost entirely devoid of emotion. "It has been. . . . My last confession came before the Fall." "First, Most Holy, I must confess to the sins of Pride and Envy. I believed myself more capable of carrying out my superior's duties than he, and desired his Word for myself. It was through this that Lucifer ensnared me into joining his rebellion." "And what else have you to confess, my child?" "My continued disloyalty, even unto those among whom my lot was cast. To this day, despite my expressed loyalty to Hell, I conspire with the Host when it suits my aims. And while I demand perfect loyalty from all those below me, I grant my own to none save myself." "And have you anything else to confess?" There was the sound of a breath being drawn, followed by a long moment's pause. "No, Father, I do not." "Then the penance I task you with is to perform one act of total selflessness within the next week, one which serves no aim of yours, and for which you claim no credit. Go forth, and sin no more," Dominic closed, more for formality's sake than out of any hope that the one sitting in the penitent's seat would truly obey such an injunction. "Be seeing you, Most Holy," came the carefully-measured voice from the other side of the booth. "And you, Stalker," Dominic whispered, wondering whether this had been sincere, or just another move in the Game. "It's a long road from Law to Justice." - -Dar Williams, "I Had No Right" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> Laurence and, well, not exactly Renaissance Faires Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:25:57 GMTFrom: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Laurence and, well, not exactly Renaissance Faires >I have an idea regarding Laurence, an Angel of >Tournaments (not as powerful as he used to be) and an >appropriate venue.* >I hope to have it finished by this weekend. >Janet Anderson >*Yes, Moe, of course *that* appropriate venue. Don't >steal this idea until I finish with it. Then you can. (bowing) Of _course_, m'lady. Feel free to borrow anything that you might need from my two bardic Word-bound and AA Galahad. Or not. :) Moe P.S. Modest suggestion. "Appropriate venue" = Tether? ;) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Dominic takes confession, day 9 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:33:39 +0800 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Dominic takes confession, day 9 >Jo? >You are *way* too cool.- -- Indeed. Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:47:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions: Upon one of the Days. Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:32:14 +0800 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Dominic's Confessions: Upon one of the Days. >I have a broken hand, so spelling errors, >capitalization errors, and extremely slow response >times should be treated as precious things, >not errors, because I'm not about to correct them. >Neener. Well, it's certainly not adversely affecting your writing ability, as the above shows. To quote you, 'Bravo.' Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions : Day 10 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:27:55 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> Dominic's Confessions : Day 10 >The bloom is off the rose, meditated the >Archangel of Judgement as he smoothly flowed across >the cathedral floor. The gilt is off the >gingerbread . . . Sometimes I ponder the essential >nature of Judgement, and I wonder, what's the bloody >point? Poignant. Note to myself: next time, Moe, try to be the _last_ person to post to one of these contests. You're getting _killed_, here. If I known that the bar was going to be _this_ high, ach, well... :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:04:57 GMT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) > > >Interesting. So any old angel with the right training can > > >make an android? Contrast this with celestials, which can > > >only be made by Superiors or God, or human and animal souls, > > >which can only be made by God. > > > > Hrm . . . again, another flaw of In Nomine. In order to have Will or > > Perception, one *must* possess a soul. -sigh- > >Not really. IIRC, there is a canonical example of something that possesses >Celestial Forces but has no soul and will just vanish forever when it >dies... undead. I have to disagree here, the undead *retain* their souls, but _not seperate from their bodies_. IIRC, their soul has been fused into their flesh, which is what makes them immortal . . . when you destroy its flesh, you also destroy its soul. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:22:48 GMT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) > > Hrm . . . again, another flaw of In Nomine. In order to have Will or > > Perception, one *must* possess a soul. -sigh- > >A feature, not a bug. In Nomine is a theological game based on >pseudo-Judeo-Christian mythology. It makes perfect sense to link the >soul to such things as Will and Perception. Ha ha ha, just as the delapidated (sp?) state of a home is a feature, after all, its a fixer-upper! Essentially, this means that dogs, well known and bred for their keen sense of smell, do not have this inherent talent reflected in their characteristics unless the GM decides to ignore the rules at stated in the core book. Dogs, known for their ability to track where humans cannot, are unfortunately *screwed* in that department due to their lack of a Perception attribute. But then again, who the hell would want to play a dog in this game, so what does it matter? (Or a Remnant who apparently won't notice *anything* unless the GM is reasonable and let him substitute his Precision or something so that he'll be able to Perceive anything.) yes, yes, yes, we've already dealt with this before so I'll just shut up now and go back to wanting to use the original characteristic set up from the original french game. OTOH, the choirs and bands are a nice addition. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:40:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. I need some good locations for major Tethers of Belial's. Pacific Rim nations for preference. I already know of all the ones mentioned in canon, so I'm specifically looking for others to flesh out ... what I'm working on now. :) Moe PS Good major Tether locations for Baal and the Vapmeister wouldn't be amiss, albeit less necessary by at least two orders of magnitude. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:06:27 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. >From: Maurice Lane >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. >Really. I mean it. >Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:40:04 -0700 (PDT) > >I need some good locations for major Tethers of >Belial's. Pacific Rim nations for preference Whatever that atoll is where the French government keep testing their nuclear weapons. jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2000 06:22:47 -0000 From: "Chris Rose" Subject: Re:IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Maurice Lane wrote: >I need some good locations for major Tethers of >Belial's. Pacific Rim nations for preference. I >already know of all the ones mentioned in canon, so >I'm specifically looking for others to flesh out ... >what I'm working on now. :) > >Moe In Melbourne, Australia, We have a petroleum refinery/storage depot on a small island in the middle of a river called Coode Island. Quite a while ago (Moe, If you want to work with this, contact me and I'll dig up details) it caught fire. This would have to be at least 10-12 years ago now. The flames burned for, like, a week, and could be seen -=clearly=- 4 suburbs away (I worked 4 suburbs away, one of the clearest memories of my youth was standing at Footscray Station and watching the fire). Coode Islande is still remembered for that fire, and best of all, it's in Melbourne innermost western suburbs. And now that I think about it, It's a stone's throw away from the site of the West Gate Bridge disaster site. During construction, a huge section of the bridge collapsed, killing 30 and injuring 17. Death and destruction everywhere in Melbourne's western suburbs .. maybe I should move away ... - --- Chris ________________________________________________________________ Get Email, News, Links and The Best Selection at http://AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:30:00 +1000 From: "Azrael/Demigouge" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 4:06 PM Subject: Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. > > > > >From: Maurice Lane > >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Subject: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. > >Really. I mean it. > >Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:40:04 -0700 (PDT) > > > >I need some good locations for major Tethers of > >Belial's. Pacific Rim nations for preference > > Whatever that atoll is where the French government keep testing their > nuclear weapons. > > > jo Muroa Atoll...I think that's the spelling any way (mu-row-a) Atoll anyway....That works for Belial, Baal and Vapula...ewwwww...decisions. Azrael You laugh at me because I'm different...I laugh at you because you're all the same. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:43:26 PDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions: Upon one of the Days. >From: Whistling in the Dark > >Dominic heard many confessions, of course. Each day since beginning >this procedure, Dominic had heard from many in Heaven's Host. Of >course, as an Archangel, this was not difficult. He could be in many >places, he could do many things, he could be many people. > >The door opened, slowly, and Dominic, his Cloak and Hood around him, >slowly emerged from the Confessional. His bearing was, as always, >inscrutable. > >"Your... pardon, Most Just?" > >Dominic turned, to see a Servitor of the Sword behind him. "I was >waiting," he said. "Shall I return later? To confess?" > >Dominic pointed silently to the confessional box. The penitent's side >was open, the confessor's was closed. > >"Oh... I had thought...." > >"Your confessor awaits, Wheel. Enter." The Archangel turned, and made >his way from the Cathedral. And elsewhere, he sat in darkness, about >to hear the confessions of an Ofanite. And elsewhere he heard more >confessions. And elsewhere others of Dominic were visiting his >Servitors as he did. But this Dominic made his way out of the >Cathedral, to perform his Penance as a good Servitor of the Lord >should. Oh. Oh my. Oh boy. Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketing _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:42:50 +0000 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> Dominic's Confessions: Day 11 Dominic re-entered his confessional booth, having dispensed with his normal duties. There had been the usual trials to conduct, evidence to gather, and reports to read. Despite certain...trials of his own in the last few days, Dominic felt confident that with time, this confessional idea of his could work out very well. He firmly put from his mind the...incidents with Kobal and Andrealphus, deciding to focus on the future. With that thought in mind, the cloaked Seraph took his seat within the confessional stand, awaiting this day's penitents. It took about an hour or so, then he heard another taking a seat on the other side of the booth. Dominic cleared his throat and said calmly "And how may I help you this day, my child?" The calm, serene voice on the other side of the booth sent a shock through Dominic. "Thank you confessor, for your valuable time. I shall not be long. My sin is most grievous though." Dominic gathered himself. "Speak child. The peace of the confessional be upon you." The voice on the other end said "I have comitted the sin of neglience of duty, and the sin of pride." The Seraph's voice was puzzled. "Please explain." The calm voice sounded sad. "I have at times allowed those who most needed my assistance to go their own way, leaving them to the struggles of life or the temptations of the Infernals. I have shown excessive pride in believing my station to be infallible, trusting my own judgement and gambling the futures of those I am given to charge, certain that I am right. That is pride and neglience, Archangel of Judgement. What is to be my penance?" Dominic's eyes were narrowing in suspicion, but he said thoughtfully "If you have gambled the futures of others, then you yourself must gamble your future. You must struggle and toil ever harder to your task, seeking the aid of others to inform you and not trusting to your own abilities to decide what aid you shall give to others. Your penance then is to take something important and cherished to you, and throw it to the blind winds of chance, as you have done in the pride of your decisions. Go now child, and may God walk with you." He heard the sound of the other standing across the booth and could not resist his curiousity. "If I may ask, who are you?" The voice on the other end seemed to smile. "I am Yves, and I thank you for excising the self-doubt that even I struggle with. My task, like yours, is not easy, but, like you, I have a Destiny to fulfill. Good day, Dominic." With the sound of retreating footsteps, the Archangel of Destiny depart, leaving a very puzzled Dominic to sit in his stand and wonder as to what could have brought Yves to him. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:28:55 NZDT From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. >I need some good locations for major Tethers of >Belial's. Pacific Rim nations for preference. I don't know the ones in canon exactly but how about this one. Lake Taupo, Major New Zealand Tether to Demonic Fire. The lake in the centre of the North Island of New Zealand is a tourist attraction, fishing, waterskiing, boating, swimming the whole deal. What the tourists don't know however, is that it grounds to Sheol in Hell. The lake is a crater lake essentially, although the crater itself is as low as the shoreline, so it resembles nothing more than a large body of water. Beneath the calm waters, a volcano, larger than all of the terrainian volcanos in New Zealand, seethes and writhes. It first erupted in the year of our Lord 50AD and blanketed the sky in molten lava and sulphurous ash. They say that the tremors were felt in Europe, and that the sky in China was coloued red with the turmoil of the gods. It caused devestation like the world had never seen up until that point. It became immediately a Tether to Fire, the raw destructive energy. In later days however, the lake doesn't do any of that. It just sits there, calm and peaceful. Belial, while not reknowned for his patience, is sitting and waiting for this terror of the central north island to again emblazon the sky with his Celestial Word. The Seneschal of the Lake is a Djinn called "Trout" by the locals, his real name hasn't been spoken in over 500 years. He doesn't seem to remember what it is really. He just sits there, fishing and waiting. He presents himself as an old Maori male, with a bald head and a beer gut. He usually has a short, grey beard. His shirts are always sweat stained, and smell like fish. Occasionally he attunes to a fish and feels it swim about the lake, judging for any signs that the lake may erupt again. He has become friends (as much as a Djinn can be friends) with a local Vulcanologist who he keeps pestering for info about the tectonic activity beneath the lake. This Vulcanologist is a Role for Jazz, an Ofanite of Fire who is keeping an eye on the *other* volcanos in the central North Island. Mt Ruapehu for example is far more a *threat* to the current stability of the Earth than the lake is. Jazz doesn't have Trout's patience obviously. Trout Djinn of Fire Seneschal of Lake Taupo Corporeal Forces: 3 Str: 6 Agi: 6 Ethereal Forces: 4 Pre: 10 Int: 6 Celestial Forces: 4 Per: 8 Will 8 Vessel/3 "Trout" Skills: Knowledge(Fishing)/3, Large Weapon(Fishing Pole)/3, Language(English, Maori)/3, Fighting/3, Survival/2, Driving(boat)/3, Swimming/3, Dodge/2, Detect Lies/2 Songs: Healing(corp)/3, Light(eth)/2, Motion(Eth,Cele)/3, NumCorp Claws/2, Fire(Corp)/2, Entropy(All)/3 Attunements: Djinn of Fire, Balseraph of Fire, Firewalker. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:32:24 NZDT From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. >>I need some good locations for major Tethers of >>Belial's. Pacific Rim nations for preference > >Whatever that atoll is where the French government keep testing their >nuclear weapons. Muraroa Atoll. BOOM! That could also be a Tether to Factions... think of the French confiscating the Greenpeace boat under the threat of execution and stuff. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:51:57 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Confessions I just want to say thank you to those wonderful and talented minds who gave us these beautiful pieces of art. Thank you. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:29:01 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Perry Lloyd wrote: > Ha ha ha, just as the delapidated (sp?) state of a home is a feature, after> all, its a fixer-upper! No. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:44:56 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) >From: "Perry Lloyd" >yes, yes, yes, we've already dealt with this before so I'll just shut up now >and go back to wanting to use the original characteristic set up from the >original french game. For the benefit of those who have not seen the original... well, mostly just for _my_ benefit, would you give a brief exp. on the original setup? Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:05:30 -0400 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 04:22:48AM +0000, Perry Lloyd wrote: > Essentially, this means that dogs, well known and bred for their keen sense > of smell, do not have this inherent talent reflected in their > characteristics unless the GM decides to ignore the rules at stated in the > core book. Dogs, known for their ability to track where humans cannot, are > unfortunately *screwed* in that department due to their lack of a Perception > attribute. I think the easiest fix for this would be to give dog NPCs reasonably high levels in doggy skills like tracking, or give all dogs non-negative defaults in those skills (or both). It's really just another reflection of the fact that stat+skill systems are _bad_, especially ones with low granularity like IN. I don't see it as a setting problem. JFM Habbalite Angel of Gaming Systems Advocacy - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:15:31 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re:IN> Crusade replies. From: "Maurice Lane" >>I also think it would be great if Furfur was helping >>to funnel resources and information to it to get back >>at his old master. > >I'll be working various demonic reactions in general, >but I didn't specifically think about Furfur. He'll >be all over this, indeed. :) I was just thinking about this, and something came to mind. There's a very good reason why only younger angels would be involved in this, being; older ones will remember the _last_ time that an all-out attack on a rival superior happened - Vephar and Oannes. As you will recall, after the destruction of Vephar, the entire force of Hell mobilised. The demons overan the earth, Baal got ready to fight Micjael, etc. And then, finally, Belial (which is a nice tie-in) struck at Oannes and the Archangel went *boom*. Practical upshot of all this is, that if the host takes out one of the Demon Princes, there will be hell to pay. The entire force of Hell will step in, even the dead Princes enemies - it's a matter of principle. The host cannot be allowed to think that they can take out a rival Superior with no retaliation at all, or Lucifer knows who they would target yet. I can't imagine that Belial was precisley close to the Demon Prince of the Oceans, but he still wiped out Oannes for the crime. If one of the DP's is killed, nothing less than the loss of an Archangel will be excepted by Hell. And it will probably be Gabriel, so as to keep the balance. And _all_ the Princes will fight back, even Haagenti and Furfur. Of course, maybe I'm totally wrong here. Your call. Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:23:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Dykes Subject: Re: IN> Jack Chick IN - --- David Edelstein wrote: > http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Jack_Chick.html Dave, you neglected the useful bit of Jack Chick mythology...the Catholic Church. Here's the complete scoop, dished by a renegade Jesuit: http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0114/godfathersindex.asp Here's the short form, feel free to append it to your page, David: The catholic church's ultimate goal is to establish the one world government, with themselves as the only church. The operations are actually run by the "Black Pope" the Jesuit General. Pretty much all higher ranking Jesuits are high ranking Freemasons, and they're closely allied, and work in conjunction with, the Illuminati, headquartered in London. In fact, according to Chick, Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits, also founded the Illuminati. What, you thought Ken Hite was making this stuff up? The Illuminati and the Opus Dei are primarily responsible for the Vatican's financial operations. Naturally, they were responsible for the crusades, and the Inquisition, still ongoing. To this end, the Jesuits are maintaining a database of every protestant church and all church members, including catholics, that they find. They field an espionage service whose goal it is to destroy or coopt all other churches. They'll use whispering campaigns, but they're not above assassinating ministers, either just their reputations by framing them with planted agents, or actual death by assassination. They also have a beef with the Eastern Orthodox church. They coached Marx and Engels in writing the Communist Manifesto, and created the Communist party to destroy the Czar (I wonder how this part of the book would read if the Mensheviks were able to hold onto their power after the first revolution). I know you want to hear about Rasputin at this point, right? A practitioner of satanic sex-magic, and rumored to be possessed by a demon, the Czar confided the location of his gold to him. This information was passed on to the Patriarch, who, when the Bolsheviks came to kill him offered the Czar's gold to them (worth $666,000,000, natch), and the head of the church, and thus the church itself, was spared. Their plans involve the eventual relocation of the seat of the church to Jerusalem. To this end, they seek to eliminate the Jews as well. They directed Roman loyalist Jews to write the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, wrote Mein Kampf for Hitler, and created the Nazi party. Readers are encouraged to read the comic book (just follow the links above) for specific details of their activities during WW2. In modern times, in the Americas, they're backing Fidel Castro and the KKK. There's plenty more to be found on Chick's web page...music, D&D, Islam, and more... And in researching this (like I didn't have fun! 8-), I found this tract online: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0045/0045_01.asp It features Luci watching his favorite show (Bewitched), holding his quarterly progress meeting, a servant of Fleurity in action, and should cure any of your players of wanting to play infernals, simply because they're so pathetically ugly. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:31:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Looking for big Infernal Tethers of Fire to ... look at. Really. I mean it. This one isn't Pacific Rim, and for that matter it may already be listed in canon, but the Cuyahoga River once caught fire in Cleveland, it was so polluted. The river and Lake Erie are both much better now, thank you, but they might have formed a Tether. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:12:12 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) >On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 04:22:48AM +0000, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >> Essentially, this means that dogs, well known and bred for their keen sense >> of smell, do not have this inherent talent reflected in their >> characteristics unless the GM decides to ignore the rules at stated in the >> core book. Dogs, known for their ability to track where humans cannot, are >> unfortunately *screwed* in that department due to their lack of a >>Perception >> attribute. > >I think the easiest fix for this would be to give dog NPCs reasonably high >levels in doggy skills like tracking, or give all dogs non-negative >defaults in those skills (or both). It's really just another >reflection of the fact that stat+skill systems are _bad_, especially >ones with low granularity like IN. I don't see it as a setting >problem. > >JFM >Habbalite Angel of Gaming Systems Advocacy I can stay quiet on this no longer. :^) One response to this problem would be a default stat-average for a creature or player, which various advantages or disadvantages modify. In IN, the default would be zero, modified up by Forces; this is the case for humans and celestials, but why need it be the case for other creatures? The stat sytem is merely focused on playable characters. An eight-foot-tall modern human Vessel would be quite unusual, and would probably qualify for several levels of Corporeal Discord, namely Gigantism. But an eight-foot elephant is merely a young elephant! A GM could just let animals have base templates, which involve standard default stats, which come not necessarily from Forces as they apply to players or supernaturally-empowered objects, but from a different (I have no idea how you imagine what Superiors do with Forces) method of "folding," "attaching," and "stretching" the Forces which make up the being. After all, the entire Symphony is made up of Forces, but a rock has no effective Strength. For the recent question of the Cow, I took a stab at converting a standard GURPS ox. Following the G->IN conversion in a straight linear fashion, we get: Strength: 38 Agility: 2 Intelligence: 1 (below 1, in fact, but stopped at 1) Precision: 1 (ditto) Will: 1 (ditto) Perception: 1 (below 1 theoretically, but I'd give animals some keener senses) Looks like this makes for 10 Corporeal Forces, and less than one each of the others. Not quite your usual player character. Basically what I was thinking is that the ox *is* made up of Corporeal Forces - they're just used more efficiently in that particular animal to generate Strength, and the rest of the time the animal runs on instinct - which, to my mind, doesn't qualify as "true" Intelligence, Precision, Will, or Perception, merely a facsimile thereof. When an animal becomes intelligent enough to have basic problem-solving skills(Intelligence) and object-manipulation with any subtlety(Precision), then they deserve an Ethereal Force. When they become able to define their own purpose(Will) and actually *comprehend* what they sense(Perception) then they deserve a Celestial Force, and now you're looking at borderline sentience and ensouled beings. >-- >+----------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | >| The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | >| forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:10:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Stat+SKill Systems Jason F. McBrayer wrote: > It's really just another reflection of the fact that stat+skill > systems are _bad_, especially ones with low granularity like IN. (I guess this is on-topic for IN.) I have no strong feelings about this, never having worked with such a system, but I'm curious: why are they bad? I *do* see the trip-ups to a coarse granularity, but what's the catch to stat+skill? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:56:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stat+SKill Systems & an Adminny comment. At 11:10 AM -0500 10/19/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Jason F. McBrayer wrote: > >> It's really just another reflection of the fact that stat+skill >> systems are _bad_, especially ones with low granularity like IN. > >(I guess this is on-topic for IN.) Sure -- so long as it doesn't turn into a GURPS/Hero/CoC/Abberant/Nobilis/d20/younameitbutit'snotIN discussion. O:> Then it will be off-topic and the List Admin will sic Ogiel on you. If it takes over the list toooooo much, I'll ask for a week's cool-down, too. So everyone make sure to remember that the goal isn't to persuade other people to agree with you, but to persuade them to understand _why_ you think that way, even if they don't agree. Anything that starts stating opinions and stances repetitively is going to get quashed. - --Beth, List Admin in a good mood but wanting to make sure no one breaks that good mood. Got me? O:> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:02:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Just who did come up with it? Somebody (I think Eric Burns) posted something here a few months back about Asmodeus, the Game, and why there wasn't a chance in Hell that he was ever going to be Redeemable. I need to find a copy of it (my girlfriend is trying to get her head around the idea of Djinn as anything but apathetic sluggards, a situation that I'm afraid I've unwittingly encouraged. Hey, it works for me), and I remember the bit as being pretty good at getting into Azzie's head. If someone could even remember the _month_, I could take it from there. :) Thanks! Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:04:27 EDT From: Galen Silversmith Subject: Re: IN> Stat+SKill Systems & an Adminny comment. > Return-Path: emccoy@nh.ultranet.com > At 11:10 AM -0500 10/19/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >Jason F. McBrayer wrote: > > > >> It's really just another reflection of the fact that stat+skill > >> systems are _bad_, especially ones with low granularity like IN. I'm really curious as to why its bad, myself, and how IN could do better. THe coarse granualrity and low distribution curve of the 2d6 success roll has issues, but its not that bad. THe issues I have are that distribution isn't significant enough, and the learning curve is awfully high (my mortal's game has show the problem of mortals rolling against stats, without modifiers, and while skills are better, there are still issues). Are you against systems that do stats modify skills (d20, Hero), or just stat+skill systems(WW, IN)? There are only about 4 styles of skill systems out there: stat+skill (IN, WW), Stats moidify skills (d20, Hero), stats have nearly no affect on skills (Palladium, ShadowRun), and no-skill/no dice systems (Amber). They all work well, in different ways, but the first two seem the most realistic to me. You innate characteristics have a decided impact on your training, skills and ability to use things and succeed. I don;'t know which is better; a lot depends on the success curve you're aiming for, realism, and other game style factors... > GURPS/Hero/CoC/Abberant/Nobilis/d20/younameitbutit'snotIN (Aberrant =) ) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1857 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.