From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Oct 20 18:29:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26144 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:29:49 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA32568 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:27:55 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:27:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200010202327.SAA32568@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1861 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, October 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1861 In this digest: Re: IN> Splatbooks: An Abstract Exercise Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> Fwd: djinn Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Fwd: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) IN> The Trials of Michael -- Day Zero Re: IN> The Trials of Michael -- Day Zero IN> Original Mummies (was IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, etc.) IN> Konrad, Demon of You Must Have The Wrong Data Fwd: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs IN> Fwd: new one from the newbie Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs IN> Fwd: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Malachai Davidson" ] IN> Re: (Dominican query) IN> [Admin] Technical Difficulties Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs IN> Quick review ... IN> Fwd: various silly questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:59:23 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Splatbooks: An Abstract Exercise - --On Friday, October 20, 2000 1:07 PM -0400 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 3:31 PM +1000 10/20/00, Azrael/Demigouge wrote: > >> Lilim SB: (?) > > You'd get it before you paid, but the interest would be hell... > Yes, but think of the artwork. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:15:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs >>From: StoyboI@aol.com, Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:50:59 EDT > >>1) Mortals can only learn corporeal songs. This is stated in many of the >>books, yet, there are numerous sections where mortals are hinted at having, >>celestial projection (Revelations III: Heaven and Hell) or even ethereal >>songs (Revelations II: the Marches). Also, I have seen that mortals cannot >>learn songs without celestial aid of some kind, however, sorcerers seem to be >>able to bypass this (of course, I can concede that the sorcery attunement >>could be considered celestial intervention). Check the CPG. The short form is that there are attunements which allow the use of Ethereal and even Celestial Songs. Sorcery also, IIRC, allows the use of Corporeal Songs, plus rituals which can have interesting effects akin to non-Corporeal Song effects. (CPG = Corporeal Player's Guide.) >>2) How does a starting ethereal spirit (PC) get a body. In Revelations II: >>the Marches, it is said to require essence. No problem, but what about a new >>character with a body already. Should the vessel be bought as a resource >>normally? Perhaps as a way of indicating all that time spent hording essence >>instead of gaining songs or skills or gaining artifacts. Yes, exactly. Vessels for ethereals that the character starts play with will cost points. Vessels created from its own Essence cache during play will just require Essence. (And lots of time!) The GM may require points if there is a long hiatus in game-time that the character could have created The Great Vessel Army during. (Well, the GM can require points for the others as well, if the GM feels that not doing so would lead to abuse. That's what GMs are for.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:19:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: djinn >>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:04:07 -0700 (PDT) >>From: chris carr >>i am very new to in nomine, and was just wondering >>something about the djinn. the book says that they may >>use their power on something that they are attuned to, >>then roll on the chart. so does that mean that the >>first use of the power gives a general location idea, >>and the second use on the same target gets the >>response on the chart, or what? To force the attunement, the Djinn rolls against his Will. The CD is the number of days that he remains attuned. (A 6 means an indefinite attunement.) When he wants to check on his attuned, he rolls Will again, forcing that link to become active, and the CD is the information he gets on the Cherubim Check Digit table. As a personal thing, I always make the "general information about the target's state of being" a LOT more vague for Djinn that Cherubim. Djinn in my games will get the location normally, but usually only a vague sense of their attuned's health, and almost never external threats. (After all, why should they care about external threats? O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:08:00 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs In a message dated 10/20/00 12:04:39 PM Central Daylight Time, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: << Check the CPG. The short form is that there are attunements which allow the use of Ethereal and even Celestial Songs. Sorcery also, IIRC, allows the use of Corporeal Songs, plus rituals which can have interesting effects akin to non-Corporeal Song effects. (CPG = Corporeal Player's Guide.) >> I'm not sure what you mean. Sorcery "allows" the use of Corporeal Songs? I figured that Sorcerers could use them anyway, since they had at least 6 Forces and Symphonic Awareness. Reverend Brian A. Rogers BillionSix@aol.com ICQ# 22544590 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:33:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs >From: StoyboI@aol.com, Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:55:05 EDT > >But basically, the sorcery attunement allows for songs other than corporeal. >But what about those soldiers who aren't sorcerers who have seen their angels >in celestial form. If a mortal cannot perceive the divine to use celestial >songs, how can they perceive a celestial in celestial form while in the >corporeal world? Different thing -- Perception of celestials doesn't equal the ability to perceive the Symphony in such a way as to be able to manipulate it. And Songs require 6 Forces, IIRC. >Two more questions: > >1) what is IIRC? If I Recall Corrrectly. >2) If Saminga learned mummification from the Egyptians who learned it from >their ethereal gods (who were in turn created by the Egyptians) (Not sure about the Egyptian gods stuff in there -- but can't access books right now.) >why can't a >mortal figure out mummification on his/her own? Given enough time, with trial and error and maybe a few generations of that... Sure! No problem! O:> But I'd make it take a lifetime, myself, or a good fraction of one. Hunting down "un-tainted" rituals might be a little easier. Slightly. If the rituals are still recorded somewhere and you can read ancient Egyptian with complex necromantic jargon. (Sorta like a computer manual written in Egyptian...) O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:36:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs >From: StoyboI@aol.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:55:05 EDT >Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs > >The point cost is for mortals only when I was doing it that way. > >I don't have the corporeal player's guide yet, so please bear with me. > >But basically, the sorcery attunement allows for songs other than corporeal. >But what about those soldiers who aren't sorcerers who have seen their angels >in celestial form. If a mortal cannot perceive the divine to use celestial >songs, how can they perceive a celestial in celestial form while in the >corporeal world? > >Also, saints and undead are essentially the same thing. Both have died and >been given life through celestial intervention. > >Two more questions: > >1) what is IIRC? > >2) If Saminga learned mummification from the Egyptians who learned it from >their ethereal gods (who were in turn created by the Egyptians) why can't a >mortal figure out mummification on his/her own? Since it originally (if you >trace it back through to the Marches and then back to humans) came from >humans, I don't see why it couldn't be done. (Though with alot of research >and possibly several games and a few demons and angels showing up to stop the >hapless mortal.) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:38:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs At 1:08 PM -0400 10/20/00, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/20/00 12:04:39 PM Central Daylight Time, >emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: > ><< Check the CPG. The short form is that there are attunements which allow > the use of Ethereal and even Celestial Songs. Sorcery also, IIRC, allows > the use of Corporeal Songs, plus rituals which can have interesting effects > akin to non-Corporeal Song effects. (CPG = Corporeal Player's Guide.) >> > >I'm not sure what you mean. Sorcery "allows" the use of Corporeal Songs? I >figured that Sorcerers could use them anyway, since they had at least 6 >Forces and Symphonic Awareness. Same difference, iirc. Though I can't even _find_ my CPG to check the semantics, which is bugging me. O>:< - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:32:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >why can't a > >mortal figure out mummification on his/her own? > > Given enough time, with trial and error and maybe a few > generations of that... Sure! No problem! O:> > > But I'd make it take a lifetime, myself, or a good fraction of > one. Hunting down "un-tainted" rituals might be a little easier. > Slightly. If the rituals are still recorded somewhere and you > can read ancient Egyptian with complex necromantic jargon. > (Sorta like a computer manual written in Egyptian...) Ooh! Plot seed for an Illuminate IN campaign: "Untainted" mummification means a mummification process with no infernal distortions to it, in particular no Saminga twists. It doesn't produce "undead" or "mummies" at all. It produces, well, Secret Masters, with whatever powers are convenient to the plot, but probably being whomesome variations on canonical mummy nature -- e.g. it effectively turns your body into a vessel, with all the bennies that implies -- no need to sleep, rest, or eat, unaging, disease resistant, etc. So suppose Eli has back-engineered this and is raising an army of Illuminated Soldiers of Creation ever since he went AWOL. Or suppose a human did discover all this in some dusty corner of reality (e.g. they're a Dreamer a la Lovecraft's Dreamworld, and learned their lore from some Egyptian dreamshade). They then start a semi-standard Illuminati organization and are unpleasantly surprised to run into the celestials, who are unpleasantly surprised themselves. Or the Egyptian gods start circulating this among mortals in an effort to stage a comeback, knowing it will earn them the wrath of Beleth and Saminga, for a start, and snarl up the whole cold balance of the the War. Or it's discovered by someone (doesn't matter who) and spreads like wildfire into the public domain, creating a large crop of "superheroes" and basically blowing the cover off the War. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:03:47 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I'm not sure what you mean. Sorcery "allows" the use of Corporeal Songs? I> >figured that Sorcerers could use them anyway, since they had at least 6> >Forces and Symphonic Awareness. > > Same difference, iirc. Though I can't even _find_ my CPG to check the > semantics, which is bugging me. O>:< No. Songs and sorcery are different. A sorcerer has the necessary prerequisites to learn Corporeal Songs, but he may or may not actually know one (or what they are, or that they are actually different from sorcery). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:56:42 GMT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) > > Yes? Sorry, but I tend to view limitations of a system as being >*drawbacks*> rather than "features". > > >You're talking about a conceptual limitation, not a mechanical >limitation. > >"Will and Perception is tied to having a soul" = conceptual limitation. > >"There's no convenient mechanic in place for a dog's sense of smell" = >mechanical limitation. Yes, I am talking about *limitations*, which I consider to be *drawbacks* rather and *features*. And yes, I do believe that both concept AND mechanics are presented as part of a gaming *system*. The fact that an undead's soul is bound to his flesh is a concept, not a mechanic, sfaik, b/c there is no mechanic written to reflect it. Though there easily could be, such as: Undead's Body hits = (Corp Forces + Toughness + Cele Forces)*Strength or Undead's Body hits = (Corp Forces + Toughness)*Stength + Soul Hits which I beleive would be a suitable mechanic to reflect the concept. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:16:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The Robots of Jean: Androids (beta) Perry Lloyd wrote: > Yes, I am talking about *limitations*, which I consider to be > *drawbacks* And wrt to the conceptual part of it, I disagree. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:00:35 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> The Trials of Michael -- Day Zero Inspired by the confessions of Dominic... * * * * Laurence set the parchment down on the conference table. "A challenge to... who?" "Everyone." The ancient Seraph leaned back on his chair. He and Laurence were alone in the General Staff Room, high in the highest tower of the Spires. "I'd like to issue a challenge to single combat, one on one. To everyone and anyone who cares to accept it." "I... see." A silence stretched. Laurence shook his head. "No, I don't see. You've obviously given this some thought. Please explain to me why this isn't as insane as it sounds." Michael smiled broadly. "Think about it. There have been only a handful of Superior-level combats since the Fall. Not nearly enough to be able to develop a general tactical theory! But if we could hold a whole series of combats -- _trial_ combats, of course -- between Superiors, we could learn so much!" "And is that the only reason?" "Oh, no." Michael leaned forward, his gaze growing intent. "There's at least one other reason." "_I_ need to be challenged." "I'm the Archangel of War. I'm Heaven's champion, the Hero Victorious. And I /am/ victorious, again and again." "That's the problem, Host Commander. It's been decades since one of my Servitors came up with a trick in combat that even gave me a moment of trouble. Centuries since I had a *real* fight, one that forced me to think and to sweat." There was something in Michael's voice that Laurence had never heard before. "I... I _need_ this challenge, Laurence. Or _some_ challenge. How else can I know that I'm pushing myself to the furthest possible limit?" "I see." _Pride_, thought the Angel of the Sword. _Hubris, even. And yet... yes, he does have a point. A sword kept sheathed grows dull._ "Well. Do you have... parameters, for this challenge? Rules, of some sort?" Michael nodded vigorously. "Oh, yes. As I said, I've given this some thought." "One, it must be held here in Heaven. Obviously, I'm not going to wander off into the Marches, or stage a battle between Superiors on Earth. But any location in Heaven is fair ground." "Two, I'll fight anyone who shows up, Superior or not, at any place in Heaven, at any place in Heaven, using any means of combat they require --" "Wait." Laurence raised his hand. "So, you'd fight Janus, say, in a free-fall judo match ten thousand feet above the Groves? Or Gabriel in the heart of her volcano?" "Yes!" Michael slapped the desk. "Exactly! Their locations, their rules... as long as it's a fair combat, I'll accept the challenge. "A fair combat as defined by..." "You, of course." Michael shrugged. "You command the Host, by God's will. Yours is the final authority. If you determine that it's fair, it's fair." _He means it,_ thought Laurence wonderingly. _Of course he means it. It's the Truth._ "Mind you," Michael added, "it is a challenge to a trial of /combat/. I'll agree to any sort of combat, no matter how weird... but it has to be combat. I mean, I'm not going to take on Novalis in a flower-arranging competition, or Jean in a Fermi Quiz." "Ah. A combat, not just a competition. Someone has to get hurt?" "Well..." Michael frowned. "...there has to be the /possibility/ of someone getting hurt. That's what combat is about, after all." "But if Jean used a giant robot, say, or a battle-suit..." "Yes! Exactly." Michael nodded vigorously. "...or if Novalis came up with a..." Laurence paused. "I mean, if she decided to... ummm..." Both archangels fell silent for a moment. "Well, the point is, it has to be some sort of combat. Even if it's just thumb-wrestling. Any sort of unarmed combat, or any sort of weapon, anywhere. Or a contest that tests combat skills, even. But no foot-races or riddle-games." "I see." Laurence rubbed his chin thoughtfully, and looked down again at the draft of Michael's challenge. "And... trial combats, I see. Non-lethal." "Well, I'm certainly not planning to kill anyone." "Right..." Laurence rustled the parchment again. "And, ah, stakes. I see that you're offering..." "To anyone who can defeat me in a fair fight, one boon. Anything that's within my power to grant, and not inconsistent with my duties as Champion of Heaven. Attunements, forces, relics, Essence... Anything within my power to give, or do, as long as it doesn't interfere with my office." "So if someone asked you to dance in a ballet? Or spend a day shining their shoes, or hand over your axe?" Michael frowned. "If I lose the contest," he said heavily, "of course I will pay the forfeit. Fair is fair. But I really don't think it's going to an issue." "Ah." Laurence turned to the parchment again. "I notice that you've gone to some trouble to specify that the Pax Dei applies to any challenger." "Well, we don't want to scare anyone away, do we?" Michael shrugged. "If an Ethereal, say... or, well, anyone... was thinking about walking into Heaven to wrestle me, or whatever, well, we wouldn't want them worried about being ambushed by the Host, now, would we?" "Mm." _Is he really hoping that a Demon Prince is going to endure the pain of the Light of Heaven just to take a whipping from him?_ Laurence contemplated the ancient Seraph, his tense stance and intent expression. _Yes, I do believe he is. Hope springs eternal._ "Well. This is very interesting. So, information on Superior-level conflicts, possible new challenges, and a good workout for you..." Laurence paused. "Are those the only reasons you have, for proposing this?" There was a long silence. Then Laurence spoke again, very softly. "It'll drive Baal just mad, won't it?" ...and Laurence found himself seized by an uncharacteristic emotion. _I would never have believed that I could ever want to laugh at Michael. But - -- the look on his face!_ When the silence had stretched to the point of acute embarassment, Laurence allowed his gaze to drift away to a corner of the tent. "Of course," he said in his best General Staff-meeting voice, "a Demon Prince could never issue such a challenge. First, since demons inevitably cheat, and defeat would mean death, he would be placing himself in deadly danger." Laurence steepled his fingertips. "Perhaps an unusually strong and... valorous.. Demon Prince might issue such a challenge anyway. Perhaps Lucifer might even allow it. But what then? Even if he did so, and did defeat all comers... why, what would he gain? Everyone in Hell would assume the contest had been rigged to support the status quo. He would lose face, not gain it. A no-win situation." Laurence glanced at Michael, who had gone very quiet and still. "So, just by issuing such a challenge... why, you would be striking Baal at his most sensitive spot. Reminding him of what he was, and where he now is, and how far he has Fallen." Laurence let his gaze drift back to Michael. "Correct?" The ancient Seraph seemed to have some difficulty speaking. _Sometimes I'm glad God didn't make me one of the Most High,_ thought Laurence. When you see them wrestling with the Truth like that..._ When a few moments had gone by, Laurence spoke again. "Actually, I think this is a good idea." "You... you do?" Laurence found himself suppressing laughter for a second time; Michael surely didn't realize how surprised he looked. "Yes, I do. Enraging Baal is good tactics. His pride is his weakness; I think there's an excellent possibility that this may cloud his judgement. Which could easily lead him into tactical error." Laurence tapped the parchment. "Yes, as a piece of psychological warfare, this is first-rate. Michael, I approve." _And perhaps_, the commander of the Host thought to himself later, after the overjoyed Seraph was gone, _perhaps this will do good in one other way as well._ _You're the Champion, Michael. You're skilled with every weapon, infinitely cunning in combat._ _But I am the Commander of the Host, and I have some idea just how clever and resourceful Heaven's inhabitants can be._ Alone in the room, Laurence smiled to himself. _It's true that this will enrage the Prince of the War. But... Baal may not be the only one whose Pride takes a rebuke from this._ _Good luck, my old commander. I think you'll need it._ * * * * * And the rest is up to you guys. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:39:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Trials of Michael -- Day Zero And to think there were times when I thought this list had run out of topics... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:05:34 GMT From: daiv@cruzio.com Subject: IN> Original Mummies (was IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, etc.) > >why can't a > >mortal figure out mummification on his/her own? > > Given enough time, with trial and error and maybe a few generations of that... > Sure! No problem! O:> > > But I'd make it take a lifetime, myself, or a good fraction of one. Hunting > down "un-tainted" rituals might be a little easier. Slightly. If the rituals > are still recorded somewhere and you can read ancient Egyptian with complex > necromantic jargon. (Sorta like a computer manual written in Egyptian...) > > O:> > > > --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. > "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." Hey! Theres a idea for a mortals campaign! Bunch of PCs get hired to seek out the original necromantic texts and confirm their authenticitym, so that some old rich person can acheive "True Immortality". Given this, how would AAs and DPs react to this? On the one hand it would maybe weaken Samingas' word, so he would definitely be opposed to it (and wouldn't that make the PCs lives really interesting? To have the Demon Prince of Death take an active serious dislike to them?) But what about every one else (given that a least a few of the Superiors on both sides are going to not care at all...)? Thoughts? - -Daiv when doing coffee water just gets in the way go straight for the bean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:38:20 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> Konrad, Demon of You Must Have The Wrong Data Somewhere, deep in a cavern in the Archives, lurks a Djinn. His desk is piled to the point of spectacular collapse with reviews, reports, summaries, data digests, disks, papers, and -- most importantly -- internal memos. And he wants your report. Oh. Wait. It doesn't agree with his figures of the (insert date), inst. Please explain why. You Must Have The Wrong Data. Konrad, a demon of very little brain, is capable of diamond-like penetrating searchlight brilliance. It's a crying shame that such flashes of inspiration (to say nothing of perspiration) are constantly applied to the wrong column of data, table of figures, or set of statistics. If his data doesn't happen to agree with yours, then there is an extremely high chance that it's because he's managed to pick up the figures from _last_ year's first quarter, rather than this year's, and the fact that it's just been posted throughout the Archive (and to the Game) that you're right up at the top on Failed Capture of Treasonous Outcasts is just icing on the cake, or gravy on the goulash. His career is as unspectacular as it has been unmeteoric. The fact that he actually achieved a Word is believed to be due to the intervention of Kronos, upon witnessing a report from Konrad that queried the Prince of the Game's personally signed off figures on traitor execution for the past decade. (Later investigation revealed that there must have been some confusion with a similar report on films starring Burt Reynolds.) The Prince of Fate stepped in just as Konrad was on the point of being hauled off for an agonisingly long interrogation, and presented him to Lucifer in person. The Word was awarded forthwith. Konrad showed little sign of recognising the honour done to him, or the potential that his Word might bring him. Short, stocky, and dusky, he hides his light under a bushel, fighting for the accuracy of his data against all comers. While certain mortals on Earth pay due homage to his principle that the other person must have the wrong facts, to the point that one might have thought he would be up there in power with the Princes, he still lurks in his little cellar. Writing reports. To, for example, your team of demons. Citing the fact that while preparing a digest for the eyes of Kronos, he has put together the following sets of data, and would they mind explaining the fact that his figures clearly prove they . . . You disagree? Well, you must have the wrong data. - --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:22:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:31:46 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [StoyboI@aol.com] >From: StoyboI@aol.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:30:58 EDT >Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs > >Another question, this time about Dominic. > >As the archangel of Judgement, and a Seraph, why can't he just say someone >did it and is guilty? ("Michael is guilty of the sin of pride.") While in >Heaven, he would have to speak celestially, and wouldn't be able to lie. >Also, all the seraphim around would hear the cacophony of the accusation if >it weren't true. In divine judgement cases, no evidence is required except >for the statement to be made in the celestial tongue. If the Symphony gives >the go ahead, then the person is guilty. Dominic is effectively out of a job. > >This question was originally posed by one of my players and it got me to >thinking. Dominic isn't needed, yet he insists that he is right and that the >symphony could be wrong. That in and of itself should suggest he is near >falling. (I am using this as the basis for an extended campaign, "The Fall >of Judgement") > >Stoybol, angel of Magic, Mercurian of Creation on loan to Destiny > >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:55:43 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [StoyboI@aol.com] > >From: StoyboI@aol.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:54:47 EDT >Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs > >In a message dated 10/20/00 10:53:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >amadan@amadan.org writes: > ><< No. Songs and sorcery are different. A sorcerer has the necessary > prerequisites to learn Corporeal Songs, but he may or may not actually > know one (or what they are, or that they are actually different from > sorcery). >> > > >I'll have to check again, but there is a suggestion that they can learn >ethereal and celestial songs as well. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:22:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: new one from the newbie >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:38:23 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [chris carr ] >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:37:53 -0700 (PDT) >From: chris carr >Subject: new one from the newbie > >the rule book says that you can dodge or resist, but >try as i might i cannot find ressistance rules >anywhere in the book. anyone help? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > [Page 39 - Contest, and page 56-57. --Beth] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:28:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs At 1:03 PM -0500 10/20/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >I'm not sure what you mean. Sorcery "allows" the use of Corporeal Songs? I> >figured that Sorcerers could use them anyway, since they had at least 6> >Forces and Symphonic Awareness. >> >> Same difference, iirc. Though I can't even _find_ my CPG to check the >> semantics, which is bugging me. O>:< > >No. Songs and sorcery are different. A sorcerer has the necessary >prerequisites to learn Corporeal Songs, but he may or may not actually >know one (or what they are, or that they are actually different from >sorcery). Same difference, then. Semantics. If you have the Sorcery attunement, you can learn, and use, Corporeal Songs. (I was presuming that if you didn't know the Song in the first place, then OF COURSE you couldn't use it.) O:pbpbpbtt - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:34:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Malachai Davidson" ] >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:04:48 -0500 >To: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Malachai Davidson" ] >From: "Malachai Davidson" >Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:04:16 EDT > >> >>Or it's discovered by someone (doesn't matter who) and spreads >>like wildfire into the public domain, creating a large crop of >>"superheroes" and basically blowing the cover off the War. >> >>Earl > >Yes, but wouldn't Jean's toes be stepped on in this instance. I seem to >think "blowing the cover off the war" is definitely something Humanity is >not ready for yet. > > >Malachi > >Malakim of Creation trying to figure out why he was given a vessel with such >an obvious name > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:40:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: (Dominican query) >>From: StoyboI@aol.com >>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:30:58 EDT >>Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs >> >>Another question, this time about Dominic. >> >>As the archangel of Judgement, and a Seraph, why can't he just say someone >>did it and is guilty? ("Michael is guilty of the sin of pride.") While in >>Heaven, he would have to speak celestially, and wouldn't be able to lie. Because A: if he spoke a knowing lie, it would be dissonant, and B: he _can't_ say that. He can only say, "I believe Michael is guilty of the sin of pride." In Heaven, whatever a Seraph states is automatically flavored with whatever qualifications (that are so cumbersome to translate into English) it needed, such as "This is my belief," or "My resonance has told me the Truth is thus." Or even, "I don't think this is true but it is a nice fiction and told to you as such." So Dominic is by no means out of a job or unnecessary. At least not for those reasons. (Pick up Superiors 1 and flip around it -- there's a thing about Seraph Archangels and the Truth which might or might not clarify some of this... Similiar information is duplicated in the Game Master's Guide, regarding the powers of Archangels.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:45:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [Admin] Technical Difficulties A couple of people who _are_ subscribed have been having their posts bounce. The affected addresses are AOL and Hotmail ones, but I don't know if _all_ AOL or Hotmail ones are going to be doing this. However, if you don't see your stuff appearing over the weekend, sit tight and please don't fill up my mailbox with multiple postings. Chances are that I've got it, and I'll forward it on Monday at the latest. Multiple postings of the same thing will just delay matters. I've written to the majordomo people at io.com, and we shall see how quickly they get back to me. - --Beth, List Admin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:40:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Another question, this time about Dominic. > > > >As the archangel of Judgement, and a Seraph, why can't he just say someone > >did it and is guilty? ("Michael is guilty of the sin of pride.") While in > >Heaven, he would have to speak celestially, and wouldn't be able to lie. It's important to remember that an accusation may be a matter of opinion, and matters of opinion may be stated in the Celestial tongue as long as the speaker *believes* the statement to be true. (For example, a Mercurian may say "Mozart was a talentless hack" in the Celestial language and not lie, if he believes it.) > >Also, all the seraphim around would hear the cacophony of the accusation if > >it weren't true. In divine judgement cases, no evidence is required except > >for the statement to be made in the celestial tongue. If the Symphony gives > >the go ahead, then the person is guilty. Dominic is effectively out > >of a job. Not quite. Accusations may be a matter of opinion. However, I do agree that Divine trials have little resemblance to human trials. Guilt or innocence can be determined by a Seraph quickly - yes or no question are asked by the presiding Seraph, and disembling or playing little games with technicalities and wording are signs of guilt. After all, an Angel attempting to hide something is an Angel who has done something wrong. > >This question was originally posed by one of my players and it got me to > >thinking. Dominic isn't needed, yet he insists that he is right and > >that the symphony could be wrong. That in and of itself should suggest > >he is near falling. (I am using this as the basis for an extended > >campaign, "The Fall of Judgement") Obviously, it's your campaign. If you want to take that approach, more power to you. I wouldn't, however. There is a place for Judgement in Heaven, even if you assume that the Symphony itself will determine guilt or innocence. After all, someone needs to pass sentence and enforce punishment. The Seraphim Council has delegated that task to Judgement. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:08:08 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Ethereal Vessels, and Mortal Songs Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Same difference, then. Semantics. If you have the Sorcery attunement, > you can learn, and use, Corporeal Songs. (I was presuming that if > you didn't know the Song in the first place, then OF COURSE you > couldn't use it.) That's rather like saying if you have a restricted Seraph attunement, you can use the Seraph resonance. The one is not a prerequisite or qualification for the other; rather, they both share a prerequisite, and thus it would be impossible to have one and not the other. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:12:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Quick review ... Picked up :To Reign in Hell: this morning. _Damn_ good book ... or primo BalProp, depending on your POV. Ogiel give four thumb up.* :) Anyway, 'see' y'all Sunday: I'm off to Boston.** Moe *Rather, Ogiel's brother-of-sire give 4 thumb up. Ogiel more e-volved. :) **Without even a _chance_ to try to run into anybody, alas. Grumble, grumble, groan... :( ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:43:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: various silly questions >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:13:57 -0700 (PDT) >From: chris carr >Subject: various silly questions > >what does celestial combat look like? are the >celestials actually punching each other and knocking >each other around, and if on the corporeal plane, >throwing each other throught objects that they >harmlessly pass through? >if you do 3 damage to someone, then one more point, >does the damage add up to the full amount of the 4 >damage point dissonence? >do you get all of the granted powers of your superiors >at character creation? or do you gain some now and >others later? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1861 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.