From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Oct 27 14:07:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19155 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:07:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA29734 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:06:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:06:30 -0500 Message-Id: <200010271906.OAA29734@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1882 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, October 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1882 In this digest: Re: IN> Reign of Steel (Re: The inevitable dreaded anime tie-in) Re: IN> Hatiphas question IN> Impudite Dissonance (Re: Hatiphas question) Re: IN> Kobal on Fallen Superiors Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) IN> Fwd: Re: IN: [Reign of Steel meets In Nomine - which Superiors, which Zoneminds] Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) Re: IN> Impudite Dissonance (Re: Hatiphas question) Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) Re: IN> Hatiphas question Re: IN> I was wondering why I avoided certain Bands and Choirs... IN> Re: Malakite Option Re: IN> Hatiphas question Re: IN> Sidekicks: False Hopes... Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option IN> Lilith's Geas Fair Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option Re: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair Re: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair IN> You know, I'm willing to bet that Talmudic Scholars might enjoy IN quite well. Re: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option A mildly strange digression from IN> Kobal on Fallen Superiors Re: IN> You know, I'm willing to bet that Talmudic Scholars might enjoy IN quite well. Re: IN> Impudite mindset Re: IN> Hatiphas question Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option Re: IN> Impudite mindset Re: IN> You know, I'm willing to bet that Talmudic Scholars might enjoy IN quite well. Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:07:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Reign of Steel (Re: The inevitable dreaded anime tie-in) At 8:38 PM -0500 10/26/00, Santiago wrote: >>God and Lucifer are, as always/often, silent on the matter. > > And here I though Lucifer was riding around in the back of a >semi, cutting deals with the humans to undermine the other AIs... Maybe! (Though now that I recall that one, it acts a little more Lilithian... Oh. Oh, man, it's gotta be Lilim influence. See, Lilith would dislike the AIs and their human-slavery kick, but look at the _opportunity_ here. Look at how many Geases she can acquire, either directly or through her Daughters. Why, by the time the AI threat is dealt with, she'll OWN THE EARTH!)* As for why she (or any other Superior, for that matter) doesn't just go celestial and waltz through a Zonemind's defenses to destroy the supercomputer at the core... Alter the RoS background a tad so that the various Zoneminds are utterly paranoid about revealing their true locations (and that's _besides_ the 2-5 backups they've got hidden away). Give them more "suicide traps" -- things that happen if they stop pinging their 'bots for too long, which will be fatal to large numbers of humans. (Saminga wouldn't care, but a lot of other Princes would remember their objective is to corrupt humanity, not kill it.) So bashing one supercomp (or even all of them at once) won't necessarily help much, and can actually hurt the cause. Meanwhile, the people who are most able to provide plans to get rid of the AIs -- that's Lightning and Technology, of course -- are, respectively, trying to decide whether this is Symphonically necessary, and fitting this into the plan for World Dominance... ("What are we going to do tonight, minions of my Inner Circle?" "We don't know, dread lord; what?" "The same thing we do every night, minions: plan to conqure the world!") Or else he's busy with his AI "daughter".... ("No! You can't blow them up! They're little Mindy's _RELATIVES_! I won't let you destroy her playmates!") * (Is this true? Who knows. It's her probable goal in this scenerio. Whether it's feasible is up to the GM. Princesses can have hubris too. If you can't tell the difference between IN RoS and canon, then put down the keyboard and back away slowly...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:07:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hatiphas question At 9:01 PM -0500 10/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Prodigal wrote: >> The Balseraph of Fate attunement means that she is a Mercurian for >> dissonance purposes, David. > >Oops. Yes, you're right. My bad. (What's really embarrassing is I >usually make these mistakes concerning material I WROTE! Sheesh...) > >Well, she still has the "Get others to do her dirty work" option. Or the >"Teach a sorcerer a ritual that will cause his brains to explode out his >nose when he tries to perform it" option.... And there is always the "wave in the Malakim" option that normal Mercurians have. Well, Calabim for her. Or Balakim. Besides, Balakim don't have to have the "destroy evil" oath -- perhaps Hatiphas has convinced herself that it's _good_ for the little human toys to be in the Archive of Fate. Why, those meanie angels wouldn't understand her pets' quest for knowledge, and who knows what nasty things they'd do to her sorcerers if they went to Heaven! No, no, getting them safely to Hell is the best thing for her sweet pets. Clearly. (I suspect that her Mercurian resonance would make her somewhat Impudite-ish in her outlook -- she loves her little humans. They're so fun, so clever, so sweet in their quest for power. She smiles fondly at her pets as they're brought into the Archive in their slave coffles and distributed about to work with the knowledge they sought all their lives. They're not always appropriately grateful at first, but after she's talked with them a while, they understand the wonderful favor she's done for them. Ah, humans. They're soooooo ky00t!) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:07:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Impudite Dissonance (Re: Hatiphas question) At 10:45 PM -0400 10/26/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 7:27 PM -0700 10/26/00, Kish wrote: >>Telling a Calabite to tear a human limb from limb wouldn't cause >>dissonance--but failing to prevent a Calabite from tearing a human >>limb from limb (with or without prompting) would. > >If that were true, every Distincted Impudite would be a pool of >Dissonance. For that matter, Nybbas would be a mass of Discord. So >would Andrealphus. It's the "personally" part that saves them, I think -- they can do the "don't ask, don't tell" thing. But if they were right there, and _didn't_ sincerly try to stop the Calabite, I'd hand out dissonance, yes. (Trying and failing wouldn't be "inaction" -- it'd be bad luck, and psychologically annoying (SUCH A WASTE!), but not dissonant.) (Mind, if Andre is right there, there's probably no _need_ to kill a human. The human will soon be a quivering heap of desire and will do anything you tell it to. Anything.)* (And _ordering_ someone to kill a human gets into a gray area -- it is action, in a sense. Baal's Impudites would have to have their Band Attunement extend to that, if they were to command other demons, of course.) At least it's as gray as the Mercurian one. O:p *(Demon mindset, natch. Though frankly, even a 15-Force Saint should contemplate an extended... encounter with a Prince, such as Andre, with the most extreme "NO WAY I DON'T WANNA GO THERE" possible.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:07:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kobal on Fallen Superiors At 11:42 PM -0400 10/26/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >>No Archangel has Fallen since the Fall. > >Counterpoint Ben.... > >Magog, the Archangel of Fortitude who brought his entire servant base with >him really. > >While some might say he was a servant of David I say he was a minor >Archangel like Christopher That's not a _canon_ counterpoint. In _canon_, he was a powerful Servitor, not a minor Archangel. Lucifer just made him a Prince immediately afterward. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:07:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) At 8:42 AM -0400 10/27/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 3:16 AM -0400 10/27/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>So, maybe not such a wimpy resonance after all. > >It's hardly useless, agreed. But a resonance that is almost by >definition difficult to use on a Celestial successfully (and admitted >as such in the rules) is, as I said, limited. I think you may be focusing too much on using it on other celestials. They don't use their resonance directly on other celestials, they keep stoked up so they can use the Ethereal Song of Attraction on other celestials. They also have the role of "support staff" when in groups of other demons -- instead of calling "Cleric!" you howl, "Impudite!" A smart Impudite will have Corporeal Healing at a fairly high level, and the Ethereal Song of Attraction even higher. The Song of Shields (especially Corporeal Shields) is also handy, and the Celestial Song of Charm is just perfect when you _need_ that Malakite to think you're his best bud. (Charm: Celestial/6. Attraction: Ethereal/6. 2 rounds. A bunch of Essence on Attraction to boost the check die.) Now, Vapulan Impudites just have a major edge here -- they're usually focused in Ethereal and Celestial Forces anyway, if they have a clue. Ethereal because being a _dumb_ Vapulan = suicide, and Celestial Forces because their resonance is so much happier with Will 8+. _And_ they stock up on double-Essence. Impudites are just very _subtle_ character-types if you want them to be effective in combat or other one-on-one situations. (Though they have to be 10 Forces before they can Essence-purge dissonance -- the Essence has to be all at once. (A big enough reilquary could work, probably, though.)) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:18:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Re: IN: [Reign of Steel meets In Nomine - which Superiors, which Zoneminds] >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /^\s*which\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 8 (If you begin a line with "w h o" or "w h i c h" -- or your emailer wordwraps such that a line is begun with those -- it bounces. Daft, I know, but.) >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:19:31 -0700 (PDT) >From: Maurice Lane >Subject: Re: IN: [Reign of Steel meets In Nomine - which Superiors, which Zoneminds] > >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Re: IN> Reign of Steel (Re: The inevitable >dreaded anime tie-in) >At 10:18 AM -0500 10/25/00, Charles Glasgow >wrote:>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Elizabeth McCoy" >[Reign of Steel meets In Nomine - which Superiors, >w h i c h Zoneminds] >>>> *>> >>>> Ah, right. Paris was a green too, though, right?> >>>Nope, Zonemind Berlin was the other major >>>heavyweight in the Greens. >> You're going to make me dig up the book for >>that, aren'tyou.... >>The idea of IN RoS is still intriguing > > > > > > > >Moe > > > >===== >In Nomine stuff: >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html >Everything else (not that there is, right now): >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html >Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:20:44 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) At 11:07 AM -0400 10/27/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 8:42 AM -0400 10/27/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >At 3:16 AM -0400 10/27/00, Douglas Muir wrote: > >>So, maybe not such a wimpy resonance after all. > > > >It's hardly useless, agreed. But a resonance that is almost by > >definition difficult to use on a Celestial successfully (and admitted > >as such in the rules) is, as I said, limited. > >I think you may be focusing too much on using it on other celestials. >They don't use their resonance directly on other celestials, they >keep stoked up so they can use the Ethereal Song of Attraction on >other celestials. No, I'm really not. I'm not saying *Impudites* are limited. I don't think they are. I think they're a lot of fun, and a wonderful part of Hell. Heck, my favorite NPC Word-bound writeup to date is an Impudite (Jeqon, the Demon of the Succubi, found at http://www.annotations.com/~innomine/characters/wordbound/jeqon.html). Heck, if you look at Jeckie, you'll even notice she's got the Ethereal Song of Attraction. But their *resonance* has limited application, compared to others -- especially Mercurians. Now, it does mean they're usually topped up on Essence, which is a good thing. But they don't have the broad range of use for it that a Balseraph has with his Resonance, or even a Calabite has with *his* Resonance. This is okay. This is fine. Impudites aren't meant to be Resonating Celestials at a drop of a hat. They're meant for other things, and they have latitudes that make up for what is a limited Resonance. For instance, a pretty lax Dissonance condition. And all this Essence. An Impudite is a perfect Demon to insert into a social situation when you need to channel it in a certain direction. Partner an Impudite and a Balseraph and give them time to work, and there won't be a human in ten miles who won't happily shoot the Angels for them. The Impudite resonance works just fine for them. They're balanced. It's just... well, limited. >Now, Vapulan Impudites just have a major edge here -- they're usually >focused in Ethereal and Celestial Forces anyway, if they have a clue. >Ethereal because being a _dumb_ Vapulan = suicide, and Celestial Forces >because their resonance is so much happier with Will 8+. _And_ they >stock up on double-Essence. Oh, certain attunements make Impudites lots more dangerous, no doubt. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:23:39 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Impudite Dissonance (Re: Hatiphas question) At 11:07 AM -0400 10/27/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 10:45 PM -0400 10/26/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >At 7:27 PM -0700 10/26/00, Kish wrote: > >It's the "personally" part that saves them, I think -- they can >do the "don't ask, don't tell" thing. But if they were right there, >and _didn't_ sincerly try to stop the Calabite, I'd hand out dissonance, >yes. (Trying and failing wouldn't be "inaction" -- it'd be bad luck, >and psychologically annoying (SUCH A WASTE!), but not dissonant.) I concur with the psychological trauma. Giving the order or watching it happen will *bother* the Impudite very much. I just wouldn't hand out dissonance for it. (It's clearly a YMMV situation.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:31:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:23:10 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) >Of course, with Impudites of Vapula, all bets are >off >:) Hell, try Impudite of Death. Essence Regeneration policy: 1). Find human. 2). Kill human. 3). Drain corpse of Essence. 3a). Hand off corpse to Shedite of Death. Waste not, want not. 4). Repeat as necessary, or until bored. They must simply _love_ hospitals and coma wards: all those lovely Essence buckets, too sick to move, so they're probably full up... Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:15:16 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Hatiphas question Maurice Lane wrote: > You know, none of this would matter if someone here > wrote out Hatiphas, Demon Princess of Sorcery. > > Hint. Hint. You can already find her character sheet in the CPG. It wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from that. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I was wondering why I avoided certain Bands and Choirs... > Grendel > Mercurian of Destiny [snip] > What, only Malakim get to enjoy their work? Heh, heh... that is soooooo not nice. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:24:57 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Malakite Option > Yeah that is a good point. Although, a Mercurian who violates his > Dissonance conditions through continued violence is probably going to end > up serving Baal as an Impudite Or he could always become a Malakite . . . (though violating Dissonace conditions doesn't really show much discipline or honor) By the way, are there any established rules or descriptions about how an angel of another choir becomes a Malakite? I don't remember there being one in the APG. Can minor choirs become Malakites too? I have this great vision of a formerly-Menunim Malakite of Dreams. Or, if you want something really crazy, how about a formerly-Bright Lilim Malakite? I don't want to imagine Lilith's reaction to one of her own giving up being a Lilim. You might even wonder if Bright Lilim have the capacity to be Malakim (though there are so few Brights that I doubt it would come up). You wouldn't have to worry about them falling again, so I would think Superiors would encourage it if it was possible. Thoughts? Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:33:38 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Hatiphas question From: Elizabeth McCoy <<(I suspect that her Mercurian resonance would make her somewhat Impudite-ish in her outlook -- she loves her little humans. They're so fun, so clever, so sweet in their quest for power. She smiles fondly at her pets as they're brought into the Archive in their slave coffles and distributed about to work with the knowledge they sought all their lives. They're not always appropriately grateful at first, but after she's talked with them a while, they understand the wonderful favor she's done for them. Ah, humans. They're soooooo ky00t!)>> So a Balseraph of Fate takes on something of the mindset of the Choir the Balseraph duplicates? That makes some sense, and it's certainly worth knowing. - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Sidekicks: False Hopes... - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > Constantine > Impudite Baroness of Nightmares > Demon of False Hope [snip] > ...Now, if she could only shake that annoying paranoia that somehow, > it'll all come crashing down on her... This is wonderful. Yes, I think there's a place for Constantine in my campaign. (insert evil laugh here) ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "I wondered why somebody didn't do something. Then I realized that I was somebody." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:35:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option Jonathan Walton wrote: > By the way, are there any established rules or descriptions about > how an angel of another choir becomes a Malakite? It does not happen. At the Fall, some number of angels of other choirs turned into Malakites, presumably by a direct Act of God. Since then, Archangels have been able to make more Malakim, and relievers have been able to fledge as Malakim, but no fledged angels have turned into Malakim. There may well have been Menunim around at the Fall, so some could have turned into Malakim, but there were no Lilim yet, so no Bright Lilim could have turned into Malakim. Same problem with Grigori; that choir didn't exist at the time of the Fall. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:38:00 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair This was something kicking about in my mind for a while, so I thought I'd submit it to the list. Lilith's Geas Fair Lilith picks up a lot of geasae from various sources, whether when she creates a lilim, a Free needs a favor, or some other celestial is so rash as to summon her for something they can't tell anyone else about, she accumulates quite a few. Naturally, she'd prefer for these geasae to be on important and powerful individuals, but they're less likely to call on her. So, several centuries ago, she came up with the idea of her Geas Fair to try to upgrade these geasae. All Superiors on both sides, select Ethereals, and a few powerful Word bound are invited to her Geas fair. A strict 'no aggression' pact is in place, enforced by (what else?) a geas. The fair meets about once every twenty years or so. At the fair, Lilith auctions off various geasae that she's collected. She doesn't offer specific identities to the auctioneers, only generalities (such as, a seraph of Flowers). The winner of a geas is told the identity of the geased, but not before signing a contract ensuring confidentiality and a promise not to destroy the geased during, or immediately after, service. (The contract, by the way, is incredibly complicated and ironclad, and it is rumored that Lilith, Marc, and the Demon of Loopholes all worked on it.) Lilith doesn't offer every geas to every bidder (Outcasts and Renegades are not offer to either Dominic, Asmodeus, Litheroy, or Alaemon), and she does offer each Superior the chance to buy all the geasae on their servitors (sight unseen) for a hefty price. Not many take her up on this offer, and Asmodeus still rages about the time he paid an huge fee for only two of his servitors with geasae. Non-Superior Word bound invited often don't make many (if any) bids, but it is looked on as a status symbol and a sign that, someday, they will be a Superior. The format of the fair changes due to Lilith's whim. Within the last century, it has had the atmosphere of a picnic, a formal auction, or a terrorist's weapon market (a la the opening scene from "Tomorrow Never Dies"). She has moved from beautifully hand-calligraphied tomes to what appear to be department store catalogs over the years. She has considered moving the auction to an electronic format, but she knows that whatever security measures she takes, Jean and Vapula will be able to evade them. As such, she has kept some of the traditional aspects. Campaign uses: Unless in a high-powered campaign, PCs are unlikely to come into contact with the Geas Fair. However, any geasae the PCs have been unfortunate enough to pick up may be auctioned off here. It can also be the task of the PCs to supervise anyone that their Superiors have picked up here. So, spring that Habbalah of Death in geased service to Flowers* on them! Sam *-Ow. I think I broke my brain with this one. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:42:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "There's no gravity, the world just sucks." Subject: Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option > > Yeah that is a good point. Although, a Mercurian who violates his > > Dissonance conditions through continued violence is probably going to end > > up serving Baal as an Impudite > > Or he could always become a Malakite . . . (though violating Dissonace > conditions doesn't really show much discipline or honor) > > By the way, are there any established rules or descriptions about how an > angel of another choir becomes a Malakite? I seem to recall that the 'other choirs becoming Malakim' bit was a one-off event, in reaction to the Fall, and doesn't happen any more. Well, not in canon anyway... But I could be mistaken. - --JT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:49:25 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair From: Samovar3@aol.com This was something kicking about in my mind for a while, so I thought I'd submit it to the list. Lilith's Geas Fair Lilith doesn't offer every geas to every bidder (Outcasts and Renegades are not offer to either Dominic, Asmodeus, Litheroy, or Alaemon), and she does offer each Superior the chance to buy all the geasae on their servitors (sight unseen) for a hefty price. Not many take her up on this offer, and Asmodeus still rages about the time he paid an huge fee for only two of his servitors with geasae. You'd think he'd be at least a little pleased to note that so few of his Servitors went behind his back to trade favors to Lilith. But, I guess when you're a Demon Prince, that cup is generally half-empty. - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:51:32 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair From: Samovar3@aol.com < Lilith doesn't offer every geas to every bidder (Outcasts and Renegades are not offer to either Dominic, Asmodeus, Litheroy, or Alaemon), and she does offer each Superior the chance to buy all the geasae on their servitors (sight unseen) for a hefty price. Not many take her up on this offer, and Asmodeus still rages about the time he paid an huge fee for only two of his servitors with geasae.>> You'd think he'd be at least a little pleased to note that so few of his Servitors went behind his back to trade favors to Lilith. But, I guess when you're a Demon Prince, that cup is generally half-empty. - -- Kish ICQ#: 28085879 AIM: Kish K M Kish_K@mindspring.replacewithcom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:49:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> You know, I'm willing to bet that Talmudic Scholars might enjoy IN quite well. Fast question (I'm without my books): Take Celestial X. Celestial X has his/her normal Choir/Band Attunement, plus another unrestricted C/B A for his Word. Celestial X has decided to go serve Superior Y: his/her original Superior Z is cool with it, and even lets Celestial X keep his/her Attunements. Now, Celestial X has realigned him/herself with Superior Y. Which of his/her C/B A's survive the realignment procedure? Obviously, the original C/B A does: canon is full of examples. But canon also states that you can't have any C/B As of other Superiors except for your own Choir or Band. Does that rule apply in this case? Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:03:15 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's Geas Fair >This was something kicking about in my mind for a while, so I thought I'd >submit it to the list. > >Lilith's Geas Fair >The format of the fair changes due to Lilith's whim. Within the last >century, it has had the atmosphere of a picnic, a formal auction, or a >terrorist's weapon market (a la the opening scene from "Tomorrow Never >Dies"). What? Not a travelling folk music concert? Not even once? I want a refund. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:00:21 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option - --On Friday, October 27, 2000 1:24 PM -0400 Jonathan Walton wrote: > By the way, are there any established rules or descriptions about > how an angel of another choir becomes a Malakite? The only way *I'm* personally aware of is a direct act of God, as a manifestation of his wrath. "Okay. Enough is enough. *BLIP!*" I can't remember this happening since the Fall. Causing God to get that torqued off isn't, I imagine, high on the list of Things to Do for any demon smarter than, say, a coffee table. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("A Malakim *what*?" "Jihad. You thought a *Viking* raiding party gave 'straight-line movement' a new meaning? Watch this...") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:04:17 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option At 10:42 AM -0700 10/27/00, There's no gravity, the world just sucks. wrote: > >I seem to recall that the 'other choirs becoming Malakim' bit was a one-off >event, in reaction to the Fall, and doesn't happen any more. > >Well, not in canon anyway... > >But I could be mistaken. > >--JT You could be, but you're not, this time. The Fall let Malakim "crystalize" out of other Choirs. That's the only time it's happened. So far. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:15:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: A mildly strange digression from IN> Kobal on Fallen Superiors Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:18:46 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Kobal on Fallen Superiors > > > > > > > Uh. Wow. I'm afraid... >Well maybe this is just the first stage. > >Planning. > >Which to make which...hmmm... > >How about all! > >Eventually. Don't you think that it'd get kinda crowded Down There, after a while? "NO! NO! Not David, too! We're overbooked as it is! We even had to turn off the fires in Sheol to get more room!"* ... OTOH, that's as good a reason as any to get some DP Redemptions. If nothing else, the Real Estate values in Heaven would probably be very attractive to your Superior on a Budget. :) Moe *Hmmm. There's something there, sorta. You get one of your really fanatical minor, as-yet-unseen Superiors to Jump, for the express purpose of finagling a Principality, entrenching, and then start kicking ass. I know, it's neither plausable or particularly bright, but the image of some Calabite "let's use entropy for God" Prince ripping apart valuable Word-Bound demons in a guerrila war across Hell is kinda funny. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:19:52 EDT From: Galen Silversmith Subject: Re: IN> You know, I'm willing to bet that Talmudic Scholars might enjoy IN quite well. > Return-Path: moelane_1999@yahoo.com > Fast question (I'm without my books): Let me see if this is what you mean: A malakim of war who has other war attunements (one word specific, 2 other choir attunements) changes to Dream, and is allowed to keep the war specific and war/malakim attunement. Later, the malakim returns to War. He might keep his Malakim of dream attuenment, and he won't lose his malakim of war or war specific attunement. He does not get back the other 2 choir/war attunements for free. Michael MIGHT be nice and return them, but its not bloody likely. The only cases I see where this might happen is if a fallen/redeemed superior returns, and a former servator returns to their service (Lucifer in Dark Victory, for instance). ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 2000 11:35:36 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Impudite mindset On Thu, 26 October 2000, Douglas Muir wrote: > I still think it's... odd... that Hellswearing someone, which is 99.9% > certain to damn them to an eternity of torment, doesn't count for > dissonance against the Mercurian resonance. But, okay. As I see it, the reason for the Imp dissonance condition is because, to their minds, killing a constantly-renewing source of Essence is -wasteful-. It'd be like a dairy farmer killing his cows for meat. Going to Hell, on the other hand, means that the Essence-batteries formerly known as souls get harvested for *all eternity*, which to continue the analogy above would be like a dairy cow that never dies of old age and never stops giving milk. Okay, so a damned soul doesn't profit the Impudite directly. But if done properly, that soul goes to its master's Principality, which increases its Prince's Essence supply, which means a happier Prince. Happy Princes tend not to annihilate their servitors in a fit of pique, and this *is* a profit for said demon. Don't think of it as dooming a soul to an eternity of torment. Think of it as getting in good with your Boss. And isn't that what's *really* important? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:53:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hatiphas question At 10:33 AM -0700 10/27/00, Kish wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy > ><<(I suspect that her Mercurian resonance would make her somewhat >Impudite-ish in her outlook -- [...] Ah, humans. They're soooooo >ky00t!)>> > >So a Balseraph of Fate takes on something of the mindset of the Choir >the Balseraph duplicates? That makes some sense, and it's certainly >worth knowing. It's up to the GM and player, of course, but I wouldn't be _surprised_. It's hardly something I'm going to insist is canon, though. Mostly because it's A: obvious, and B: trivial. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:56:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Malakite Option At 1:24 PM -0400 10/27/00, Jonathan Walton wrote: >By the way, are there any established rules or descriptions about how an >angel of another choir becomes a Malakite? They don't. It happened at the Fall, and never since -- relievers fledge as Malakim, and Archangels create Malakim, but other fledged angels don't turn into Malakim. Mind, if you want to change that in your own game, feel free. But in canon, it don't happen. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 2000 11:45:01 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Impudite mindset On Fri, 27 October 2000, Casca wrote: > > I still think it's... odd... that Hellswearing someone, which is 99.9% > > certain to damn them to an eternity of torment, doesn't count for > > dissonance against the Mercurian resonance. But, okay. > > As I see it, the reason for the Imp dissonance condition is because, to Dang! I could have sworn you said 'dissonant against Impudite resonance'. Seems I feel victim to the same sort of dyslexia that claimed David E. a while back. I think I amde some good points, though, so it's not like the post was a total waste of time... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:04:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> You know, I'm willing to bet that Talmudic Scholars might enjoy IN quite well. At 10:49 AM -0700 10/27/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Now, Celestial X has realigned him/herself with >Superior Y. Which of his/her C/B A's survive the >realignment procedure? Obviously, the original C/B A >does: canon is full of examples. But canon also >states that you can't have any C/B As of other >Superiors except for your own Choir or Band. Does >that rule apply in this case? Yes. More concrete example. A Malakite of Creation has the Malakite of Creation and the Seraph of Creation Choir Attunements, as well as Transubstantition. He goes to work for Jean and after a while, Jean gives him the Malakite of Lightning attunement. After working for Jean a while, he decides he wants to switch totally. Jean re-attunes his Heart. The Malakite keeps his Malakite of Creation attunement, and Transub, but loses the Seraph of Creation attunement. (Naturally, he keeps his Malakite of LIghtning attunement, and may now be granted teh Seraph of Lightning one...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) Darn, I hate not having my books with me. Do damned souls count as human for an Impudite's dissonance requirements? This is relevant for something I'm working on, actually... :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:23:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Impudite resonance (was Hatiphas question) At 11:51 AM -0700 10/27/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Darn, I hate not having my books with me. Do damned >souls count as human for an Impudite's dissonance >requirements? Something of a GM call. I'd think that an Impudite would desire to object should a damned soul be destroyed utterly, but I don't know if I'd assess dissonance for it. They should probably be griping, though -- what a waste! (Well, Impudites of Death are fine by it, and Baalite ones needn't fret much...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1882 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.