From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Oct 29 19:24:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12273 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:24:30 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA04865 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:23:43 -0600 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:23:43 -0600 Message-Id: <200010300123.TAA04865@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1887 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, October 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1887 In this digest: Re: IN> Mariel, the Extended Djinn Remix Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Child Support IN> Alien angels? Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) Re: IN> Re: Ancient Malakim Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori Re: IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori IN> Grigori IN> Sidekicks>Need and Feed Re: IN> Alien angels? IN> Cleaning out the IN tray Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> Alien angels? IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> The Celestial Name of the Grigori Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 06:20:13 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, the Extended Djinn Remix Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 02:21:01 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Mariel, the Extended Djinn Remix (Deceased, Background) >Remember, this is not a competition, this is just an >exhibition. >Please. No wagering. >(Great, now Moe's going to do Mariel as a Goth >Impudite, and make her Remnant the model Gaiman used >for Death. I just *know* it.)*** Sorry: I've _already_ done a Princess of Goth wannabe wannabes, thank you very much, and I've said all that I was gonna say on that matter.* Phbttthhh. :) Seriously, nice work - as usual. Moe *Although the Remnant idea ... Naaah. Death's got more class. I could buy her being a diminished Raphael, though: needless to say, we'll have to change Raphael's Choir to Mercurian (which is really quite funny, once you think about it), but such minor trivia as a complete rewrite of canon hasn't ever stopped me in the past... :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:49:57 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Child Support > >*Based on a quick scan of the APG, IPG and core book, >my second impression is that canon is silent on this >issue. If so, all humorous adventure seeds aside, 2nd >Edition will need to eliminate this loophole bigtime. It's a feature, not a bug. I don't see any reason why it needs to be eliminated, there are plenty of good reasons for Archangels not to create servitors on Earth, for the servitor's sake. And if any do, then that's also good plot potential. What's the problem with it? For sure, Dominic won't like (to put it mildly) archangels creating what are effectively angels that are 'born' outcast, with no heart. And bear in mind that if angels do something silly like deal with Andrealphas or Lilith to help create a new reliever, it certainly can't be 'born' in Heaven. jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:57 +0000 From: Kay Dekker Subject: IN> Alien angels? I don't know whether this has been done to death already: if it has, my apologies in advance. If Creation encompasses other corporeal beings similar to, or greater than, us in sentience, did the Creator provide them with Celestials? If not, why not? If so, are they our Celestials too, similar but different, or completely Other? And what happens when the Zeta Reticulans land here? Kay, suspecting that theology has some answers, but not quite sure where to look. - -- Delirium includes a plush fish. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 02:21:01 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Mariel, the Extended Djinn Remix (Deceased, Background) >Remember, this is not a competition, this is just an >exhibition. >Please. No wagering. >(Great, now Moe's going to do Mariel as a Goth >Impudite, and make her Remnant the model Gaiman used >for Death. I just *know* it.) Remember what I just said about this? Well, ignore it. Thanks to Mr. Burns, I got a flipping idea in my flipping head that caused me to sit at my flipping computer and flipping type this out, because when the flipping ideas don't get worked out, the flipping voices in my head start reciting G.K. Chesterson's epic poem _Lepanto_. So, it's all _his_ fault. Blame him. :) Morgan Kyriotate of Destiny in Service to Gusto ("Ogiel having good time here. No want to Smash. You un-der-stand? You _smart_. We go find more beer now.") "Do you know what oblivion _really_ is? It's... nothing. You see it coming, barreling down the way to crush your soul, and you stand and wait for it. You think, 'Well, it’ll finally be over. I can finally rest, and forget it all.' "Wrong. Nope. Not like that at all. "What _really_ happens is that you stop. Completely, totally stop. No thinking, no existing, no rage or fear or pain or sight or sound or rest or peace or solitude: you just END. It's not an instantaneous process, quite: you have just enough time to realize that this is coming, and it's not what you expected, and there isn’t a blessed thing you can do about it. Then you lose it all. No rushing wall of blackness, no velvety curtain of silence, just... nothing. "But that's not the worst part. The worst part is when oblivion doesn't quite take. Every so often I would flicker back into existence for a second or two, helplessly feeling things again, and then poof! Oblivion came back. I don't know how many times this happened: it certainly seemed endless, when it was happening. Wake up, scream internally, drown again, wake up, scream, drown, wake, scream, drown… towards the end I was begging for oblivion to go away, for my Word to be as naught, to feel something, _anything_, for more than a millisecond at a time... "... and then I did. I felt the Light, and I had to make a choice again. A proper choice this time, not one fueled by shock and self-pity. So I chose to exist, and let others exist, and to help them try to understand just what a gift existence is. I'm glad that I no longer hold the Word of Memory. "After all, I failed It in the moment of crisis. I won't fail the Word of Appreciation." Mariel Cherub Master of Trailblazing Angel of Appreciation Corporeal Forces: 4 Strength: 7 Agility: 9 Ethereal Forces: 5 Intelligence: 10 Precision: 10 Celestial Forces: 6 Will: 12 Perception: 12 Word Forces: 12 Vessel: middle-aged human female/2 Skills: Dancing/3, Detect Lies/3, Dodge/3, Emote/3, Fighting/3, Knowledge (Gusto's Organization/5, psychology/3), Savoir-Faire/4, Singing/3, Tactics/2 Songs: Affinity: (Celestial/2), Attraction (Celestial/3), Correspondence (All/1), Empathy (All/1), Harmony (Corporeal/1, Ethereal/3), Healing (Corporeal/1, Ethereal/3, Celestial/2), Light (Ethereal/3, Celestial/1), Memory (All/3), Shields (All/2), Solace (All/2), Succor (All/2), Thunder/1. Mariel once knew the Songs of Forgetfulness and Oblivion, but her Redemption has burned that knowledge away. She's not interested in finding them again. Attunements: Cherub of Gusto, Ofanite of Gusto, Inspire, Party Favors, Master of Trailblazing, Angel of Appreciation Angel of Appreciation: A human in Mariel's presence will always notice when someone else does a virtuous, selfless, or kindly act. Humans will also find themselves more prone to doing such things on their own: any fears or worries that might prevent the mortal from acting according to his or her better nature will seem petty and unimportant. Mariel sometimes gives out the first part as a Servitor Attunement. Rites: : Talk someone out of committing suicide. : Spend two hours looking for beauty in one's surroundings... and finding it. When Haagenti stood before the Council, was Redeemed, and took on his new role as holder of the Word of Gusto, no one noted the little curlicue of smoke and darkness that spun off of him at the moment of his exaltation. It had fled to a corner and pulsed softly as the new Archangel found himself led off to be shown to his new comrades. Above, the light of the Higher Heavens receded and began to fade, dimming the now empty Council Chamber. But, at the last second, the fading stopped, and a narrow ray of light streamed down right next to the bundle of darkness. After an endless moment of pure silence, the darkness moved into the light, and was destroyed, and was transfigured... The Council found Mariel the next morning, still rapturously looking upward, lost in the moment where she had basked in the light of her God after all these long, dreary millennia. They recognized her, of course: a couple of them weren't even completely surprised. The rumors that Oblivion had lived on, after a fashion, had been bandied about for centuries. They hadn't particularly expected to find her here, Redeemed (albeit in weakened form), and Word-bound to Appreciation, but it had been an absolutely insane week, anyway. Haagenti wouldn't have blamed Mariel one bit if she hated him for the rest of eternity: after all, in his previous existence, he had _eaten_ her whole. This shamed him now, but the Archangel was brave enough to take whatever anger and frustration she wanted to dish out, silently, without rancor or excuse. It came as a big surprise to him, then, when she turned three cartwheels and swung him around in a 4-dimension dance of pure joy. It came as a bigger surprise when she absolutely insisted on being Gusto's first Word-bound Servitor. These days, Mariel is Haagenti's right-hand Servitor. She's the one that angels of Gusto go to when they need to know where their Archangel is _this_ week, the one who reminds Haagenti about events and meetings that he really should be attending, and generally keeps him about as grounded as one could realistically expect from an Ofanite. In her copious free time, she enjoys going down to earth and getting a feel for the Creation she labored so strenuously - and thankfully, futilely - to destroy. What an ironic place the world is. Ain't it keen? ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:26 +0000 From: Kay Dekker Subject: Re: IN> Re: Ancient Malakim Moe wrote: > More seriously, if you want a Grigalakite, why not > make one anyway? Have him or her bang on the Gates > and ask, "Can I come back in now?" > Heck, have _all_ of them do it. The Seraphim Council > doesn't exhibit mass hysteria and terror nearly often > enough, IMHO.* Heh. That's pretty much what I have planned already. The Cherub Archangels have been busy ever since the Grigori went, very discreetly keeping an eye on the remaining few, tracking their progeny, and working on a very careful selective Soldier-breeding programme. More recently, they've had Eli, as Creation's embodiment, minting new Grigori - and avoiding the Nephallim problem - at a fairly slow rate. I don't want to go into too much detail (you never know whether your players are reading), but, sooner or later, someone's going to arrive at a Council meeting and make Dominic and his pals turn purple. Kay, preparing a Revelation for his former WoD players... - -- Delirium includes a plush fish. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:28:04 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) >when the >flipping ideas don't get worked out, the flipping >voices in my head start reciting G.K. Chesterson's >epic poem _Lepanto_. And this is a bad thing? jo (White founts falling in the courts of the sun ... ) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:49:58 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori > This is an interesting notion. > > The Book of Names would have to be pretty darn well protected, though... > otherwise it would have been Lucifer's #1 target (or #2, after the > Metatron) during the Rebellion. Definately. I would think Yves keeps it in his private collection, alongside the true name of God. Did the Book of Names get talked about at all in Superiors 3? I would think it would be rather important, expecially since Yves' Seraphim have a divine connection to it. Its mention in the main book may have just been meant as a throwaway line, but it's a neat enough concept that it should be developed. Basically, it would be one of the most powerful artifacts in existence. Every about-to-fall servitor of Destiny would just love to be the one to hand it to Kronos on their arrival in Hell. Think about the possibility of Hell erasing the entire Celestial language (especially since angels can't learn Dark Celestial)! Later. Jonathan P.S. Come on y'all. Only one response? You guys aren't helping me much. I know I'm fighting for attention with Gebbeleth and two Mariel's, but seriously. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:01:38 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori >Did the Book of Names get talked about at all in Superiors 3 No, but I'd always assumed that Yves _was_ the book. It's just that in more recent times, he takes the form of a man. jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:05:04 +0100 From: Benediktq@t-online.de (Benedikt) Subject: IN> Grigori Hy, I have some questions concerning the Grigori. Why was their punishment that hard? I could understand if Dominic had cast out some of the Watchers, but why the whole choir??? I can´t believe that every Grigori broke heaven´s laws. Could individual Grigori redeem? Every demon can it, so why can´t the Grigori? Their crima wasn´t nearly as bad as Lucifer´s, but demons are treated better. How many of them have survived? Waiting for your answers.... Sammael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:21:38 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Sidekicks>Need and Feed Need and Feed Habbalah and Balseraph Servitors of Haagenti "Haagenti's Concience" Corporeal-3 Str-6 Agi-5 Ethereal-1 Int-3 Pre-1 Celestial-3 Will-6 Per-6 Artificacts: Need: Flamming Sword 5/ Feed: Shovel of Motion 5/ Skills: Area Knowledge /6 (Best Resturants), Exotic Cusine 3/, Cooking 6/, Haagenti's Diet 6/, Theology (Dietary Laws) 6/, Dodge 5/ Songs: Song of Plenty (Corporeal 6/Ethereal 6/Celestial 6/), Song of Charming (Celestial 3/), Song of Form (Wings 3/), Song of Healing (3/) Attunements: Balseraph of Haagenti, Calabim of Haagenti, Consume, Habbalah of Haagenti, Lilim of Haagenti, Knight of Banquets, Haagenti's Concience Special Rites: * Satisfy Haagenti's current need (+3 essence) Notes: Shovel of Motion: A bizzare looking snowshovel that Feed has used so long to toss food into Haagenti's mouth it has achieved special properties do to the Prince's desire to make it go faster. When used as a weapon it gives the wielder +3 in all attacks with it (especially to shovel someone in Haagenti's mouth) and it makes shoveling go three times as fast. Flamming Sword: An ordinary angelic looking sword despite the fact it is frequently sizzling saliva and thus sounds like a barbeque. It is old and pitted but still gives the wielder +3 to all attacks with it (especially to skewer) and sets whoever it does skewer on fire. Haagenti's Concience: This odd attunment is directly tied to the Prince of Hell and allows both Need and Feed to know exactly the state of Haagenti's desires. This may be as normal as he suddenly has a craving for Dairy Queen Hotdogs aged fifty years and the desire to taste one of the Archangel Michael's feathers to the desire to see those who have no food or not enough fed or someone who suppresses gluttony eaten. Concievably if Haagenti ever desired to repent or had leanings to this would detect it as well.....HAHAHhahahahaahahahah! Need and Feed are Haagenti's two most trusted and beloved servitors and have quite possibly the most simultaneously envived and UN-envied job in his Principality. Need and Feed, simply, put are the "angel" and demon on Haagenti's shoulder who are in charge of making sure their Prince is satisfied with whatever dish he thing he desires or desires done. They by their regular acess to their prince can concievably (and often do) whisper in his ear some suggestions for what he might want as a favor to a allied prince or servitor as part of their or their own twisted agendas. Unfortunately Need and Feed as their forces number suggests are kept perpetually busy by Haagenti's endless desires and if his desires are not satisfied toot sweet well....where do you think those forces went? Thus far both have kept ahead of Haagenti's bottomless stomach and are frequently given rewards of forces for the truly spectacular needs they satisfy. Still, as such have yet to make it to anything as high as an angel's level...which annoys ALOT of hell's servitors that they can kick two "powerful" demon's bottoms all over Shal Mari's streets. Need and Feed have a unique history that is frequently told among the distasteful visual humor Gluttony servitors. After Lucifer had promoted Haagenti to Prince and he had devoured the Demon Prince of Sloth and Demon princess of Oblivion, Haagenti suddenly discovered something unappetizing in his mouth stuck to his teeth...unused to the sensation he spat out Need as a reliever Habbalite. A few seconds later from the pits of his stomach he belched out (some say more dorsal areas produced him) the reliever of Feed, a Balseraph to be. Haagenti seeing these two things he created wondered what to do with them and was about to eat them when Lucifer suggested they might prove useful...along with other servitors...in the long run. It's of course quite possible this story is like much of what Haagenti eats and is malarkey (Mmmmm malarkey) but one never knows in Hell. Need is seemingly a mockery of an Angel as he wears a Vapulan lightbulb halo, a ratty often frequently stained white robe, and carries a flamming sword...it is he who tells Haagenti to feed to hungry (usually to the point of fighting each other bloody for scraps and death from overconsumption) and to punish sinners like those who take food out of people's mouths (ever wonder why fat camps burn down?). Need considers itself an angel and Haagenti to be the living embodiment of God's own hunger for vengence....as well as other stuff. Feed is seemingly a mockery of devils as the little serpent dresses in a pair of red flannel pajammas and carries a shovel that oddly resembles a pitch fork. Two little horns rest on his head that are quite obviously fake and actually are antelope horns he removes from a corpse when Haagenti was enjoying eating the population of a forrest. Feed believes Haagenti should become a more subtle Prince and take over Hell by tempting Kronos and others to eating poisoned food or whatnot. Feed believes Haagenti is the Anti-Christ but just hasn't gotton around to eating his way to the top yet. Needless to say these two are, like haagenti, a disturbing joke in Hell. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:33:10 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Alien angels? From: "Kay Dekker" Subject: IN> Alien angels? > If Creation encompasses other corporeal beings > similar to, or greater than, us in sentience, > did the Creator provide them with Celestials? > If not, why not? If so, are they our Celestials > too, similar but different, or completely Other? > And what happens when the Zeta Reticulans land > here? i think the game works a lot better if you go along with the humanocentric view of most religions and assume there aren't other forms of life out in space. liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:38:43 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Cleaning out the IN tray Pardon the pun. :) Anyway, I'm taking the rare opportunity of a weekend where I'm not going anywhere to finish up a piece or two. This one is an answer to my idle musing, "Hmmm. Was there ever a Renegade who was actually _looking_ to get caught?" It's also a possible way, for those of you mad enough to let Daisy infect your pristine campaigns, to ratchett up the horror to the next stage. :) Moe Charlie Renegade Impudite of Cheerfulness Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 3 Agility: 9 Ethereal Forces: 3 Intelligence: 7 Precision: 5 Celestial Forces: 4 Will: 9 Perception: 7 Vessel: human/1 Skills: Climbing/1, Dodge/6, Emote/3, Escape/1, Fast-Talk/1, Fighting/2, Move Silently/3, Ranged Weapon (pistol)/3, Running/6, Savoir-Faire/1, Swimming/1, Tactics/1 Songs: Healing (Corporeal/1), Light (Celestial/2), Motion (Corporeal/2), Numinous Corpus/1 (wings), Shields (Corporeal/2), Sleep (Ethereal/2), Thunder/3 Attunements: Impudite of Cheerfulness, Infectious Smile Discord: Neat/3, Happy!/3 Where's the thrice-damned Game when you really need them? Charlie simply can't understand it. He's a _Renegade_. He smashed his Heart and ran - screaming - - to the nearest Tether. He even _spit_ on its Seneschal as he ran past. His first act upon reaching Earth was to take a brick and send it through a window, using a drop of precious Essence to steady his aim. Charlie uses Songs at every opportunity, spends Essence like a maniac, and routinely smashes up large, bulky objects. He even found a copy of the "Renegade's Bible"... just so he could do everything wrong properly. And _still_ the Game hasn't caught up to him. What are they all doing, taking coffee breaks? Charlie's a very scared Renegade. Nothing new there, but he's not scared of the Game. He wants the Game to swoop down and snag him: if they do, then he can sing like a canary about what his former Superior Daisy is really planning for Hell. It's bad. It's really bad. She's infecting demons left and right, and time is running out for everybody. Charlie was sure that going Renegade was the best way to get the message out; after all, everybody knows that the Game interrogates its captives to a fare-thee-well. Well, this time the Game was going to find it really easy to get information out of one of its victims. Charlie would have signed anything, confessed to anything, agreed to anything... just as long as he was _listened_ to when it came to the danger. Hell, Charlie's riddled with infectious Discords. That, coupled with the Game's natural paranoia, should have been enough for him to be taken seriously. It probably wouldn't have been enough to keep him alive, but then Charlie would rather be dead than a brainless grinning zombie. It was a good plan, really... but it assumed that the Game could find one shouting Renegade who's spray-painting "Fleurity is a drug-soaked buffoon" (in Infernal, no less) on walls on a regular basis. So much for vaunted Balseraphic propaganda - and where the Hell is the Host, for that matter? Doesn't Dominic have Triads or something out, looking for demons to eviscerate? What does it take to get celestial attention these days? Charlie's not a Cheerful demon at all. He has encountered celestial agents, actually: Soldiers of his former Superior. They keep finding him, trying to subdue him (while at the same time trying to make him kill one). They're brain-dead, grinning zombies, of course, so it's not too hard to evade... but there's a lot of them. Charlie doesn't dare kill one: he's gotten to that critical point where any higher levels of the Happy! Discord will shut off his intelligence like a light bulb, and he can't find a non-Cheerful Tether. If he could find a Tether - any Tether - he wouldn't be in this mess. But his pursuers keep following, and eventually he won't have any choice but to kill one. If that happens, then the clock really starts ticking. He's got to find help first. Where the HELL is the Game? ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:58:55 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 02:16:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... >You, Moe, are sick. >Twisted. >Bad bad BAD. >- -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, >Q4B4L! Now, be nice, or I'll send 'Bob', Mercurian of Creation IST Faith (Angel of Slack) to the front of the "Things to Hurt People's Brains with" List. ;) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:44:05 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Alien angels? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Liam Astley To: Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 1:33 PM Subject: Re: IN> Alien angels? > i think the game works a lot better if you go along with the humanocentric > view of most religions and assume there aren't other forms of life out in > space. Heck, even in a universe with a billion galaxies, SOMEONE has to be created first. Might as well be us humans.... - -- Casca, chuckling at the thought of human "First Ones" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:59 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: IN> Time Zones... I have this dreadful feeling that this is one of those questions that everyone's agreed to ignore... Everyone who regenerates Essence has a time of day when it comes back. For people in the corporeal plane, who aren't moving around, that's easy, it happens at physical sunrise, sunset, noon, etc. Daylight saving time and suchlike affectations are not relevant[1]. The days get longer and shorter, but by a maximum of about four minutes per day, and that's easy enough to adapt to. What /exact/ point in sunrise or sunset[2]? How about if you're in a polar zone and there isn't going to be a sunset for weeks? Things get a bit more interesting if you're travelling at high speed. Air travel will let you get two sunrises or sunsets a lot closer than 23 hours 56 minutes. Do they both give you a point of essence back? In Heaven, Hell and the Marches[3], what happens? They don't have days and nights as such, but there are time intervals for getting Essence back. Is there a day-night cycle that they observe? Where on Earth does it correspond to? Why there? Or is it different for each celestial? In what way? Does the place where you last had a vessel manifest in the Corporeal matter? And if you've never had a vessel? [1] Note that this gives humans who can control their essence and thus notice when they get a point back a clear and reliable indication of local noon, even if you can't see the sun. This can be exploited for navigation, but that's just handy and not seriously unbalancing. I wonder who Captain Cook was a Soldier of? [2] My vote's for the Geometric Universe: sunrise happens when the top edge of the sun crosses the theoretical horizon, and sunset has happened when the top edge has gone below the theoretical horizon. Heaven always gets those tiny advantages in terms of tight timing. Mountains in the way don't matter; atmospheric refraction, which makes the sun look a little higher in the sky than it truly is, is an illusion, which makes angels think they'll get their refresh a little sooner than it actually happens, and demons that they'll have to wait longer than they really have to. This mostly makes up for heaven's advantage. [3] I could believe that the servants of Blandine and Beleth work shifts so that the angels who are used to the cultures and dream-symbolism of different time zones are on duty at the right times. It lets the Hindu experts avoid the angels who are dubious about "their" pantheon, for one thing. Please don't hit me... - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:29:07 -0000 From: "I. Inayat" Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo Hart" To: Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 6:01 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: The Celestial Name of the Grigori > > > >Did the Book of Names get talked about at all in Superiors 3 > > > No, but I'd always assumed that Yves _was_ the book. It's just that in more > recent times, he takes the form of a man. > P. 122. Protected by three Seraphim, who chant the names of new things as they come into existence. It contains the names of all things, past, present and future. Nothing's said about the Grigori. (Hmm... since it's a part of the Library, and the Library is sometimes seen as another face of Yves...) Imran ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:34:35 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Time Zones... >I have this dreadful feeling that this is one of those questions that >everyone's agreed to ignore... Nah. It's just a little skewed to answer. The short answer is, regardless of your travel, you get an extra point of Essence every 24 hours or so. If your PCs are trying to get extra Essence faster by moving around and picking up sunsets, tell them not a chance. One simple way to do it is this: go ahead and let them get a point of Essence at some sunrise or sunset. Then, regardless of whatever else they do in terms of jumping around and such, deny them any Essence whatsoever until at least 24 hours have passed. "Sorry, Joe; I know it's sunset here in the Himalayas, but you just got one twelve hours ago, so something about the sunset just doesn't move you like it normally does. No Essence for you." (I'd allow maybe a couple of hours leeway, at least if the demon was travelling on business for his Superior.) Then, once the 24 hours (give or take a couple leeway) are up, at the *next* appropriate time, the being can regenerate their Essence. In other words, if Joe gets his point, then tries to be sneaky and heads halfway around the world to get another, tell him it doesn't work the first time, and if he still stays in the area rather than going back to where he first was, then he'll get his next Essence about 36 hours after his previous. In polar zones, use essentially the same rule. Take whenever they last got a point of Essence, and replenish it every 24 hours or so. >In Heaven, Hell and the Marches[3], what happens? They don't have days and >nights as such, but there are time intervals for getting Essence back. >Is there a day-night cycle that they observe? Where on Earth does it >correspond to? Why there? Or is it different for each celestial? In what >way? Does the place where you last had a vessel manifest in the Corporeal >matter? And if you've never had a vessel? In the other realms, again, it happens about once every 24 hours or so. Of course, time itself is different in the other realms, but they correspond roughly to the Earth day. It's only when a being comes to Earth that the solar cycle starts controlling Essence regeneration, and I imagine there's a bit of adjustment time, something like jet lag(only you're having to get used to the very concept of physical time). >[1] Note that this gives humans who can control their essence and thus >notice when they get a point back a clear and reliable indication of local >noon, even if you can't see the sun. This can be exploited for navigation, >but that's just handy and not seriously unbalancing. I wonder who Captain >Cook was a Soldier of? Heh. Note this one on the list of "Uses You Never Thought Essence Had..." >[3] I could believe that the servants of Blandine and Beleth work shifts >so that the angels who are used to the cultures and dream-symbolism of >different time zones are on duty at the right times. It lets the Hindu >experts avoid the angels who are dubious about "their" pantheon, for one >thing. Definitely a reasonable thing for both of them to do; also, the celestials would certianly work in shifts if they were attached to some specific dreamer who had their own sleep schedule. >--- >John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:08:19 -0600 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Time Zones... > In polar zones, use essentially the same rule. Take whenever they last got > a point of Essence, and replenish it every 24 hours or so. Remember, this also applies to Limbo, as per Revelations III: Heaven & Hell! :)