From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 30 19:43:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20037 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:43:40 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA21471 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:42:14 -0600 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:42:14 -0600 Message-Id: <200010310142.TAA21471@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1890 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1890 In this digest: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Re: IN> Another one of those questions that you all know and love. Re: IN> Re: Ancient Malakim Re: Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Child Support Re: IN> Re: Balakim IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> Fwd: Names of God Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> Archives in convenient format? Re: IN> Alien angels? Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> Grigori Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> Saints in Hell Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> Gebbeleth: Demon Prince of Secrets (Deceased, Background) Re: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. Re: IN> Fwd: Names of God Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) Re: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Re: IN> Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:12:32 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Hey this is an odd question but has anyone actually ever pondered what the characteristics of the Nephilim and Gorgons (the "off" result of the Song of Fruitation)? I think these should be covered somewhere.... 1> Are the Nephilim innately evil? 2> Are they Celestial or Corporeal entities or some perculiar hybrid of both....(they can hit Celestial beings and Corporeal no matter which form). 3> If they're Celestial can they create Vessels like Ethereals and if so would that make them able to pass with humans if they gained enough? 4> Can they use songs and do they possess attunements/have a resonance? The same question really remains for the Gorgons... 1> Can the "pregnancies gone wrong" also produce mythical creatures other than medusa's race? The Phoneix for instance or the Fenris wolf and the like.... And here's another interesting question... 1> Did the Grigori use the Song of Fruitation or interbreed with humans, if the latter was just 2 out of six pregancies Nephalim.... and if so is the Song somehow corrupted? 1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:42:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Another one of those questions that you all know and love. At 6:52 PM -0700 10/28/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Celestials can only be created on the celestial plane, >right? Fnord. It's the way I'd do it in a personal campaign (or Tethers)*, but I see no reason to make that canon. * (ditto redemptions.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:50:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Ancient Malakim At 8:43 PM -0700 10/28/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >The Seraphim Council >doesn't exhibit mass hysteria and terror nearly often >enough, IMHO.* You and Janus. (Who is generally, IMC, laughing his rings off any time something happens to croggle the Council. Look up, see the wheel of fire chortling...) (Just remember that Malakim and the Fall predate the Grigori.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:26:20 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix >>From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:51:04 -0600 >>Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from >>["Bevan Thomas" ] > >>From: "Bevan Thomas" >>Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix >>Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:49:23 -0800 >> >>Are you sure? I remember from my grade 12 Biology class that there are five >>kinds of living things: animals, plants, fungus, amboeas et al, and >>bacteria. >> >>In fact there would be a greater connection between plants and animals then >>between animals and bacteria (as they are higher lifeforms). So unless >>Jordi's word is taken a little loosely then I take it, then it would not >>cover "bacteria." Quite correct. Animals, Plants, Fungi, Monerans, and I can't remember what the fifth one is at the moment. >>And at least in canon, I don't think homo sapiens are considered animals for >>the purpose of Jordi's word. Didn't Michael tell him that they were outside >>his sphere of control when Jordi wanted to destroy humanity way back when? >>(in the In Nomine GameMaster's Guide, I believe) What all this really boils down to is what Jordi's Word actually *is* in Angelic. I would imagine it's something close to this: "the moving creatures in the water that hath life, and the fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven... cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth...." In other words, all those things that God presumably created on the fifth and sixth day, as the Old Testament would have it. More to the point, it was those things over which Man had dominion... which would very definitely set humans apart from Jordi's Word. This is by no means what humans might technically call Animalia, literally meaning "things which move themselves." There's even some dispute over what that might mean -- for example, I believe there's a single-celled creature with several animal characteristics, such as "muscle" strands, and plant-like characteristics, such as chlorophyll photosynthesis organelles. Jordi is mentioned as having a Song which allows his Servitors to give their vessels the form of any animal, and which allows them to take the form of a bacterium. This might be permitted for a couple of reasons: 1, bacteria are connected with animals in sufficiently many human minds to allow Jordi's Word to encompass them as a subtle overtone; 2, Jordi's Word literally encompasses "Animalia," things which move themselves; this would include bacteria, but would also include humanity -- perhaps there's an extra condition on the Word; 3, Jordi's Word is as described in the Bible passage above, and by a theological twist or a stretching of the Word happens to include bacteria in that same spate of creation, but definitely not Man(if you don't want. Whether Man is included in Jordi's Word, or not, will affect how he views his relationship with humanity). So, have we solved the question? Naah. Take yer pick. Me personally, I like 3. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:26:40 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix >**"Let's feed all the live people with soup made from >dead people!" Yeah, right. Anyone else want to >explode this particular fallacy? The end of Daylight >Savings Time has made me too tired to remember the >math or logic necessary to do so. :) > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. >http://im.yahoo.com/ Easily. The Second Law of Thermodynamics works quite well, since every human is going to have to spend energy digesting every other human, and the cycle would gradually wind down as energy is lost into the environment, decreasing the number of humans. One might also add that the human body is an extremely poor converter of material to heat, compared with something as simple as a biomass generator. For that matter, the whole background concept is flawed. They tried to rationalize a bit of it away with "combined with a form of fusion," but then why couldn't they just use that fusion and forget all the humans? Then there's hydroelectric power, wind farms, geothermal vents, lightning regulators... humans would be entirely useless in this scenario. If you really wanted to cook up an excuse to have humans still be around, say that the AIs run on human brains in the background of the humans' thoughts... the more humans, the more AIs can survive, and the AIs can't (yet) create a computer sufficiently complex to run themselves. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Child Support Moe -- you are sooooo eeeeeevil! (insert maniacal laugh) ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:39:54 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Balakim At 7:02 PM -0500 10/28/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >From: "William J. Keith" >[snip] >> And while I'm on the subject of making weird celestials... has Hell ever >> tried to kidnap a Malakite before he took his oaths? [...] plus, it's possible that a part of >fledging as a Malakite is taking the oaths, at least the first two oaths >that are standard to all Malakim. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:27:30 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Well personally in my opinion Lilith probably would view Zedikiah as a potential resource and a friendly face to talk through to Heaven when he first emerged.....after all they were both working to free humanity. Of course the fact he kills every Lilim he encounters kinduv persuades her otherwise and she views him as a perversion of her word. "Oh great heaven's trying to subvert freedom now", unfortunately I can't see her as blessed with the insight to see from his point of view her position.... Unfortunately it's rather counterproductive to try and destroy something your not getting paid to destroy. She may take note of his destruction of Lilim soon however if he keeps out and out persecuting them (Lilith has no problem with servitors who die in battle...you made the call after all to get involved the way you did) but actively HUNTING THEM is something to draw a high level geas in from those nice Gameites... and then they'll be hell to pay. Still Zedikiah has survived this long....he may actually outwit the queen of slavery....and god knows how many Heavengly angels have wanted to draw her out into the open for years ("Spare me" cancels ALOT of geas). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:29:37 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Better late than never -- some of us didn't have access to our e-mail on Sunday (I really must get that modem replaced...). Vocatiel Archangel of Communication "The world is talking. Listen." Vocatiel is the newest Archangel in Heaven. She began her career as an undistinguished Servitor of Knowledge. Heaven's old guard is amazed at this angel's meteoric rise -- but no one is as amazed as Vocatiel herself. After Raphael's death, Vocatiel devoted herself to the maintenance of the deceased Archangel's Cathedral. Vocatiel wasn't just a janitor during her centuries in the Ivory Tower. She read every book in Raphael's library in the hope that the knowledge collected by her lady wouldn't fade if someone else came to learn it. Once Vocatiel had read every book in the Ivory Tower (and more than a few in Yves' Library), she decided to serve Raphael's Word by conveying her collected knowledge to others. The ancient angel began to study teaching methods from sources as diverse as angels of Destiny, Stone, Faith, Lightning, Revelation and Children. Over a thousand years of this made Vocatiel an expert at conveying information in a variety of media. Sometime during Vocatiel's period of learning how to teach is when Novalis noticed her. The Archangel persuaded the former Servitor of Knowledge to enter the service of Flowers. It was among the angels of Novalis that Vocatiel learned methods of conveying feelings as well as facts. So great did her skill in communication become that Novalis offered to sponsor Vocatiel for the Word of Communication. Vocatiel readily accepted. The Seraphim Council wondered why Novalis and her charge had waited so long to make the petition -- they had had their collective eye on Vocatiel for some time. Vocatiel submitted to the Council's ministrations and emerged attuned to her new Word... as an Archangel. She announced that God had told her that she was Heaven's answer to the Prince of the Media. Vocatiel is as expressive as one would expect a Mercurian to be. She is polite to a fault, even in the face of demonic provocation. Vocatiel is, like Novalis, a powerful female principle. She usually appears as a woman with features incorporating every race of humanity, including some that no longer exist and others that haven't been born yet. Heaven's warmongers don't think much of her, but she lets it slide. After all, battle planning requires communication and therefore supports her Word. Hell doesn't seem to regard her as much of a threat, either. Vocatiel doesn't care what they say -- as long as they're talking, they're making her even more powerful. Dissonance Angels of Communication gain a note of Dissonance for every day that they fail to spend at least an hour easing communication between mortals. This Dissonance goes away if they make up the difference later. Vocatiel's angels are also forbidden to impede any communication that doesn't serve the cause of Hell. Choir Attunements Seraphim All Seraphim of Communication know the Corporeal Song of Tongues and always succeed in its use. The Song is known at a level equal to the angel's Ethereal Forces and has a Check Digit equal to the angel's Celestial Forces. Vocatiel's Seraphim can also understand unearthly languages (such as Helltongue) but cannot speak them. Cherubim (Restricted) Vocatiel's Guardians can use their Resonance on anyone whom they can perceive over television or radio. For 1 Essence the angel can monitor her attuned through a nearby TV or radio set; only the angel receives this signal. Ofanim Ofanim of Communication are messengers without equal. They all know the Celestial Song of Motion at a level equal to their Celestial Forces for free and can play it at no Essence cost when delivering a message. Most Ofanim of Communication wear female Vessels. Elohim (Restricted) Elohim of Communication can use their Resonance to empathically link two or more people. Each individual will experience the feelings of the others for a number of minutes equal to the angel's Celestial Forces. The Power must touch each subject to invoke this Attunement. Any subject may resist with a Will roll. Malakim Communication's front-line warriors can distract their foes with information overload. With a Perception roll, the angel opens a mystic channel between the victim's mind and the awesome volume of data flowing through the world's media (on an Intervention favorable to the target, some of this information may be remembered!). The victim of this attack gains a penalty to all rolls equal to the CD of the attack roll. This penalty lasts for a number of turns equal to the Malakite's Ethereal Forces. The victim of this attack can resist by failing a Perception roll. Kyriotates (Restricted) Vocatiel's Dominations have a Mundane Servitor who is aware of the War. The angel doesn't possess this Host so much as share consciousness with her; the Host is aware of the angel's presence and will remember the experience. Either the angel or the human can dominate the merger. The dominant party's Attributes are in effect, but the subordinate party can still perceive through the body's senses and give advice. The composite entity can use the skills of either partner. The Kyriotate always knows the location of this Host and can automatically enter as the subordinate partner (roll anyway to get the CD). This Attunement may be purchased multiple times. Mercurians Mercurians of Communication can read body language so well that they always know when a person's feelings and intentions are at odds with her words, and they know the appropriate postures and gestures to use in any social interaction. This sensitivity also gives them +2 to the TN of any attempt to use or interpret sign language (this includes reading lips). Servitor Attunements Edited for Content Whether this Attunement constitutes protection or censorship depends on whom you ask. For 3 Essence the angel can edit a message so as to remove any content that would encourage selfish behavior or lead a mortal to his Fate. This can be used on the medium to edit any message that comes through it (for example, to sanitize all programs shown on a particular TV set) or on a person to effect any message sent or received by the subject. Any use of this Attunement on a living being can be resisted with a Will roll. Information removed by Edited for Content is replaced with something innocuous; only those who know what the message was supposed to be have any chance of recognizing this as celestial interference. Silent Voice An angel with this Attunement can converse telepathically with any angel or Soldier of God within (total Forces) yards. If both parties have this Attunement, the range in yards is equal to their combined Forces. Cherubim and Kyriotates of Communication and those with the Ethereal Song of Affinity have no range limit when telepathizing with beings to whom they are attuned. Distinctions Vassal of Communication A Vassal of Communication is so personable that people want to listen to her - she gains +2 to the TN of any attempt at Emote, Fast-talk or Lying. This bonus also applies to vocal performances but not to Songs. Friend of Messengers An angel with this Attunement must know the Celestial Song of Tongues. The first point of Essence provided to the subject of the Song comes from the Symphony; the sender must provide any additional Essence. The player of the Song will automatically get a reply (if the subject wants to send one) at no additional cost unless the subject is in Limbo. Master of Understanding The angel is immune to any Song, Attunement or other effect that would impede communication (i.e. loud noise, confusing word choice, Malphas' Imbroglio Attunement, the Ethereal Song of Cacophony). No message conveyed by or directed at the angel will be affected. The Master can also grant this immunity to someone else with a touch; this lasts for (recipient's Celestial Forces) minutes. The only obstacle that can stop this Distinction is a language barrier - but Vocatiel often grants the Seraph of Communication Attunement before giving this reward to non-Seraphim. RELATIONS Vocatiel doesn't particularly dislike any other Archangel. After all, everything that they do in support of their Words ultimately supports hers. There are only two exceptions. She is annoyed by the Wind, whose Servitors often act without too much forethought or planning. Vocatiel also dislikes Jean's tendency to withhold information. For their part, the latter two Archangel's don't care for Vocatiel's tendency to share information too quickly. Allied: Gabriel, Novalis, Yves (Gabriel is neutral toward Vocatiel; Eli considers her an ally) Associated: Christopher, Litheroy, Zadkiel Neutral: all others except... Hostile: Janus, Jean (Janus is neutral toward Vocatiel) Rites * Spend two hours talking peacefully to someone. * Write an essay and send it in for publication. * Spend an hour teaching a class (+2 Essence if there are more than 30 students). Chance of Invocation: 4 Vocatiel is busy, but she appreciates regular messages from her Servitors. She personally appears to any of her angels who doesn't contact her for over a month. The Archangel of Communication also makes herself available to the rest of the Host; an angel who invokes Vocatiel for the purpose of conveying information (as opposed to asking for help) can do so without the normal -10 modifier. +1: a non-fiction book +2: a broken communication device (telephone, TV, modem, etc.), restored to working order +3: two mortals engaged in debate +4: a broadcast studio just before or during a show +5: a handwritten letter penned by one mortal to another +6: 10 or more people engaged in conversation ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:35:03 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Names of God > >I'm writing a comic book about demon-slaying in the 14th century. Does any > >of you know the secret names of God or where I could find out about them? >>One of my characters is a theurgist and I want him to use those when casting > >magic. Thanks. Lots of places on line will have them, and any Grimoir etc will claim them. Some of the ones that have been used in magic are: YHVH (refered to as the Tetragrammaton, the source of Yaweh and IIRC Jehovah), ADNY (Adonai) and Ruach (means spirit, Ruach Elohim, is the spirit of God). These are only a few The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish is a bit old but it has a good deal of things that were actually used in magic and grimoirs. Hope this helps. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:37:37 -0700 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation > Well personally in my opinion Lilith probably would view Zedikiah as a > potential resource and a friendly face to talk through to Heaven when he > first emerged.....after all they were both working to free humanity. Demon Princes don't work that way. Someone with a similar Word is not viewed as a potential ally; they are viewed as a threat. Why? Because they are. Someone who is getting essence that would normally go to you is a *threat*, not a potential ally. That's why Andrealphus and Haagenti have such an uneasy relationship. You can paint it differently in your game, but you'd have to rewrite the way essense works or rewrite how important essence is or make words work differently. > -Charlemagne Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:53:00 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Archives in convenient format? At 4:36 AM +0000 10/29/00, Kay Dekker wrote: [...] >I know they're available on the IN site, >but online time is (relatively) expensive [...] >I know that I could download each archive >element piecemeal, but, before I go to >such lengths, does anyone have a tarball I don't know personally of any, but so long as you don't go publishing something like that, I would not mind if you organized something with someone in email. Hint: there's a lot of stuff -- you'll likely want to get it in chunks... (Have you schlurped the INC yet?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:43:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Alien angels? - --- Kay Dekker wrote: > If Creation encompasses other corporeal beings > similar to, or greater than, us in sentience, > did the Creator provide them with Celestials? > If not, why not? If so, are they our Celestials > too, similar but different, or completely Other? > And what happens when the Zeta Reticulans land here? I recommend the book Perelandra by C.S. Lewis for my favorite take on theology and extraterrestrials. As for the nature of "alien" angels, it seems to me that the only Choir that would need changing would be Mercurians. Angels who were literally Friends of Man might have trouble identifying with silicon-based lifeforms or cold-blooded halogen breathers. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:56:18 +0100 From: Benediktq@t-online.de (Benedikt) Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Charles Phipps schrieb: > Hey this is an odd question but has anyone actually ever pondered what the > characteristics of the Nephilim and Gorgons (the "off" result of the Song of > Fruitation)? > > I think these should be covered somewhere.... > > 1> Are the Nephilim innately evil? No, they arenīt. They are human beings and have free will. The majority chooses fate over destiny, but not all of them do. > 2> Are they Celestial or Corporeal entities or some perculiar hybrid of > both....(they can hit Celestial beings and Corporeal no matter which form). No, they are humans. Each Gorgon and Nephallim has 6 potential forces and nearly all of them acquire their 6th force early in life. They get disadvages in every realm. > 3> If they're Celestial can they create Vessels like Ethereals and if so > would that make them able to pass with humans if they gained enough? > 4> Can they use songs and do they possess attunements/have a resonance? They can use songs, and if an Archangel would ignore Dominic he could bestow a attunement on them (but thats very unlikely to happen). They cannot have a resonance. > The same question really remains for the Gorgons... > > 1> Can the "pregnancies gone wrong" also produce mythical creatures other > than medusa's race? The Phoneix for instance or the Fenris wolf and the > like.... Gorgons donīt look like Medusa. If they have the right disadvanteges, they even look like normal humans. > And here's another interesting question... > > 1> Did the Grigori use the Song of Fruitation or interbreed with humans, if > the latter was just 2 out of six pregancies Nephalim.... > > and if so is the Song somehow corrupted? > > 1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? Donīt know. If you want to know more about Gorgons/Nephallim look in the corporeal playerīs guide. Sammael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:59:02 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 original post: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:44:27 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Emancipation - - --On Monday, October 30, 2000 3:11 PM -0600 Prodigal wrote: >> From: "Charles Phipps" >> >> >>> Zedikiah >>>Angel of Emancipation >> >> You realise that Lillith will be devoting time to squishing him >> like a bug, right? ;;;) >> > > Oh no! He'd be far too useful bought and trussed up.... > >Marc. Just Marc. >Elohite Angel of Salvation >("Can you say 'buyout'? Can you say 'shell companies'?") You guys wanna know what's REALLY wierd? The other day, while listening to the "Independant Women" song from the Charlie's Angel soundtrack, done by "what'stheirname", I had this idea about an Lillim Archangel: The Archangel of Independance. She'd be working on promoting all forms of Independance: not only political independance, but social, cultural and financial independance as well. I was imagining her as a strong ideal of TRUE feminism: Empowering women so they're equal to men, not just the promotion of women's hatred towards men. I was also imagining Lillith's reaction to a Lillim getting the word of Independance from God in one sentance: "The. Little. (BLEEP!) I give her Life, I give her a Start, and WHAT does she give ME in return!? I want her DEAD!" And My Archangel's reaction? "My my, mother... So much Bitterness... Could it be you hate me so, now? ...Or is it because I've achieved what YOU could've had...?" Mind you, it was just an idea I had... Nothing serious, nothing in stats... If anyone wants to work with this, feel free to do so. ^^ - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:04:24 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Time Zones... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 7:59 PM +0000 10/29/00, John Dallman wrote: > > > >Things get a bit more interesting if you're travelling at high > >speed. Air travel will let you get two sunrises or sunsets a lot > >closer than 23 hours 56 minutes. Do they both give you a point of > >essence back? > > NO. The vehemence of this reaction suggests that the ability to regenerate Essence with a time-zone shift would make a GREAT reward attunement for Asmodeus to give to favored agents of the Game. I mean, he'd reward the PC with the ability to cheese the rules for regenerating Essence. Isn't that just so like the Game? :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:03:31 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Grigori Separate question... were any Princes involved in the tempting of the Grigori? I've always thought it would have been right up Andre's alley. Yet he's strangely silent about it. Hmmm... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:29:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Time Zones... - --- John Dallman wrote: > How about if you're in a polar zone and there isn't going to be a > sunset for weeks? I would say that the actual time at the celestial's physical location is more important than whether or not the Sun is visible (if you make actual sunrise or sunset the determiner, demons are screwed at the poles during the months when the Sun never sets -- and angels are screwed the other six months). > Things get a bit more interesting if you're travelling at high speed. > Air > travel will let you get two sunrises or sunsets a lot closer than 23 > hours > 56 minutes. Do they both give you a point of essence back? My answer to a PC who tried this would be, "Nice try." Everybody regenerates Essence once per 24 hours according to his or her internal clock. Beings in Vessels automatically reset to the local time. Humans take a while, hence the Essence-drain of jet lag. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:38:57 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Saints in Hell Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I was under the impression that one's Forces were visible when Celestial. > > Even if they are (and for non-Superiors to be counting Forces with more than> plus/minus 2 or 3 errors; GM call!), there are still the occasional 7-Force> Hellsworn. I wouldn't expect them to be allowed to keep all those Forces very long; considering that the average demon in Hell has 7 Forces, I doubt they're very fond of humans that are on a par with them. (I would assume that you can get a rough indication of how many Forces someone has in celestial form, since the number of Celestial Forces gives you a bonus to Perception rolls, but a margin of error of 2-3 sounds reasonable.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:00:06 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation - --On Monday, October 30, 2000 17:27 -0500 Charles Phipps wrote: > Well personally in my opinion Lilith probably would view Zedikiah as a > potential resource and a friendly face to talk through to Heaven when > he first emerged.....after all they were both working to free > humanity. > Er. Um. Uh. No, I'm sorry, I can't even *begin* to get into the mindset that would see anything Lillith has ever done in the entire history of the cosmos that way. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Risking dissonance even trying.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:13:44 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Bowden" To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 7:00 PM Subject: Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation > > Well personally in my opinion Lilith probably would view Zedikiah as a > > potential resource and a friendly face to talk through to Heaven when > > he first emerged.....after all they were both working to free > > humanity. > > > > Er. > > > Um. > > > Uh. > > > No, I'm sorry, I can't even *begin* to get into the mindset that > would see anything Lillith has ever done in the entire history of the > cosmos that way. Agreed. I don't see how the person who deliberately and knowingly created the first Infernal Tether on Earth can possibly be said to have humanity's best interests at heart. [1] - -- Chuckg [1] Barring extreme naivete or stupidity, neither one of which are character traits Lilith is known for. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:25:57 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Gebbeleth: Demon Prince of Secrets (Deceased, Background) Jean is not listed as an archangel at the Fall in the Demonic Player's Guide (at the very beginning, where it lists all the princes that Lucifer creates), so I think he was merely an angel then. The list places the opposite number of Gebbeleth as Raphael, Archangel of Knowledge. So it is likely that Gebbeleth was formely a servant of Raphael. Or perhaps Uriel. Purity is similar to truth. However, I'm not sure how accurate that list is, since it misses out Uriel. I would make Beelzebub the opposite number of Uriel, since he really needs to be one of the first demon princes, and Corruption sounds like a good opposing word to Purity. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 1:23 PM Subject: Re: IN> Gebbeleth: Demon Prince of Secrets (Deceased, Background) > At 2:10 PM -0400 10/28/00, Douglas Muir wrote: > > As Angel of Memory, shouldn't she have been a Seraph of Jean? I mean, > look at that Choir Attunement. > > > --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. > "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:26:35 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. I'd dress up as an ofanim, but I think that would be more danger then it's worth. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Maurice Lane To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 2:22 PM Subject: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. > Anybody dressing up as their favorite Choir / Band / > Superior / whatnot? > > Heh. I bet somebody asks this _every_ year... > > > :) > > > Moe > > ===== > In Nomine stuff: > http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html > Everything else (not that there is, right now): > http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html > Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:32:44 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Names of God Thank you very muchly. I managed to grap a lot more from Kabbalah books as well. I want the supernatural elements of my comic to be at least vaguely authentic. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Groth To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 2:35 PM Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Names of God > > Lots of places on line will have them, and any Grimoir etc will claim > them. Some of the ones that have been used in magic are: > > YHVH (refered to as the Tetragrammaton, the source of Yaweh and IIRC > Jehovah), ADNY (Adonai) and Ruach (means spirit, Ruach Elohim, is the > spirit of God). > > These are only a few The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish is a bit old > but it has a good deal of things that were actually used in magic and > grimoirs. > > Hope this helps. > -- > > > Timothy, Angel of Rambling > Ofanite of Creation > ArchRival of Mathus > If you have time to kill, why not kill it at > http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:34:37 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:59:14 -0400From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, (Oopsified) >>Ain't it keen? >Yep. Nice writeup. Thanks. One of those "white heat" ones. >Hmm, I wonder if he hawked up the late Prince of >Sloth, too. That'd be interesting. Yeah... to see, not to do. The problem is, I don't like the bugger any more than you do. Let him stay digested, and far away from Oops, is my motto. :) The stuff you posted so far looks good, though. Finish it up, by all means. Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:51:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. At 2:22 PM -0800 10/30/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Anybody dressing up as their favorite Choir / Band / >Superior / whatnot? > >Heh. I bet somebody asks this _every_ year... A robe, 4-6 bicycle reflectors, and a button: "I am not a Balseraph." No, I'm not doing it, but I think someone was thinking of it last year. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:29:50 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats > 1> Can the "pregnancies gone wrong" also produce mythical creatures other > than medusa's race? The Phoneix for instance or the Fenris wolf and the > like.... > If you go by legend, Fenris, Hela, and Jormungandr are probably "Gorgons." Perhaps Echidna and Typhon's brood as well. Probably not the Phoenix though. Its parents weren't gods. > > 1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? Cool concept. I'm sure Eli and Andrealphus have at least. Probably Baal too (since he did act as a god). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:30:06 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:38:41 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. >>In the meantime, anyone who finds this particularly >>sick and twisted is more than welcome to come up >>with their own ideas about Saminga In Love. >Unrequited or otherwise? Oh, requited, of course. I _am_ trying to be nice to the poor fellow, of course. :) >So WHO IS IT, ALREADY? :-) Not telling yet. Go ask Charlemagne: he's got the best track record of anticipating my little projects... ;) Morgan (SAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Still Not Telling ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1890 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.