From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Oct 31 13:59:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17311 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:59:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA04428 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:56:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:56:55 -0600 Message-Id: <200010311956.NAA04428@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1892 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 31 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1892 In this digest: Re: IN> InNominati Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> Not precisely a sidekick. More like a wandering monster of Goofyness. Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Re: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. Re: IN> Saints in Hell Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> AIM users? IN> Re: Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Re: IN> Saints in Hell Re: Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> Time Zones... Re: IN> What *are* Songs? Re: IN> Saints in Hell Re: IN> Cleaning out the IN tray Re: IN> Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Re: IN> Grigori Re: IN> InNominati Re: IN> Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Re: IN> Alien angels? Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Re: IN> The Angel of Emancipation Re: IN> InNominati IN> In Nomine on the brain... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 Re: IN> Why the Grigori can't just repent (was In> Grigori) Re: IN> In Nomine on the brain... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 Re: IN> In Nomine on the brain... Re: IN> Why the Grigori can't just repent (was In> Grigori) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:20:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> InNominati On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Sean McCarthy wrote: > There is, in fact, an IN:NWO (In Nomine: New World Order) project that was > going on for a while. With Superiors as Illuminati and such groups as > Cherubim of Janus or Lilim of Haagenti. I don't have a URL, but at least > one person on this list was active there (Rev?) and perhaps they know of the > current status. Um... technically it's still being worked on. We're just taking a little year-long break. :) Sneakpreview at www.brainpuke.com/in-wo for the impatient. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Want to hold up a bank in Latin? "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam." (I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:35:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... On Sun, 29 Oct 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: >> Now, be nice, or I'll send 'Bob', Mercurian of >> Creation IST Faith (Angel of Slack) to the front of >> the "Things to Hurt People's Brains with" List. >You wouldn't DARE... > >.... would you? >- -- >Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, >Q4B4L! > Meow! The rant is slowly building up a nice head of steam as we speak, brother. It should reach critical mass by the weekend. That, I think, _will_ go straight to website. These digests seem to top out at 43KB, after all. :) Moe ("Cue evil laughter. "Evil laughter, stage 23, please. Evil laughter, stage 23.") ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: > >You wouldn't DARE... > > > >.... would you? > >- -- > > The rant is slowly building up a nice head of steam > as we speak, brother. It should reach critical mass > by the weekend. > > That, I think, _will_ go straight to website. These > digests seem to top out at 43KB, after all. :) I will quietly trust in your ability to peer into the Celestial plane... but be warned... the time is ripe for a Jihad...... :) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! GET SOME SLACK, CREATE SOME SLACK, OR DIE THESE ARE YOUR *ONLY* CHOICES -- St. Bubba ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:52:13 GMT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... >From: Charles E Smith >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:30:08 -0800 > >Vocatiel >Archangel of Communication > > "The world is talking. Listen."<<< > Argh. That's much too close to one of the old BT logos for me to ever accept that it can go with an _Archangel_ jo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:44:10 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Not precisely a sidekick. More like a wandering monster of Goofyness. Something about the whole idea of having "wandering monsters" in IN makes my brain hurt. >And, heck, I've been meaning to write out examples of >some of my minor Choirs anyway. :) Hmm... are these online? (Your website is strangely difficult to navigate, BTW... I keep getting 'access denied' type messages.) >Morgan (SAW) >Kyriotate of Destiny >Petitioner for the Word of I wonder if I'm posting too >much on this forum. I mean, I _do_ have a webpage, >after all. I do hope you're posting your work there. I'd really hate to lose the Angel of Manure, frex. >Angel of Mischief: Mischief walks through her >scenarios without anyone actually noticing. Mortals >will simply never quite connect the cheerful, >pleasantly scatterbrained girl with the chaos going on >around them. Does the title "Pippa Passes" ring a bell? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:31:10 +0100 From: Benediktq@t-online.de (Benedikt) Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats > > 1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? > > Cool concept. I'm sure Eli and Andrealphus have at least. Probably Baal too > (since he did act as a god). Superiors 2 says that Andre sired a daughter with Eve. Sammael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:28:31 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... - --On Tuesday, October 31, 2000 6:52 AM +0000 Jo Hart wrote: > > > >> From: Charles E Smith >> Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... >> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:30:08 -0800 >> >> Vocatiel >> Archangel of Communication >> >> "The world is talking. Listen."<<< >> > > > Argh. That's much too close to one of the old BT logos for me to > ever accept that it can go with an _Archangel_ > I thought the BT version was: "The world is talking. We bring you every third or fourth word." "The world is talking. Good luck getting out of Manchester." "The world is talking. Don't even think of joining them." "The world is talking. And thanks to a 13mm hex wrench and poorly monitored PCPs, so are the local hooligans." Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("What's that noise?" "2400Mhz at 500ms. Wanna stuff ballot boxes in Tailand?") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:23:45 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats At 10:31 AM +0100 10/31/00, Benedikt wrote: > > > 1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? >> >> Cool concept. I'm sure Eli and Andrealphus have at least. Probably Baal too >> (since he did act as a god). > >Superiors 2 says that Andre sired a daughter with Eve. Well, it's a rumor.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:36:56 -0500 From: "Andrew Stoner" Subject: Re: IN> The inevitable Halloween question. > Anybody dressing up as their favorite Choir / Band / > Superior / whatnot? Well, currently I'm dressed as a Mercurian of Jean. Can't tell me from the mundies around me and I have a bunch of electronic gizmos on my lap. Sorry. Impudite wretch that I am... > Heh. I bet somebody asks this _every_ year... > > :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:37:25 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Saints in Hell > David Edelstein wrote: > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > I was under the impression that one's Forces were visible when > > > Celestial. > > > > Even if they are (and for non-Superiors to be counting Forces with > > more than plus/minus 2 or 3 errors; GM call!), there are still the > > occasional 7-Force> Hellsworn. > > I wouldn't expect them to be allowed to keep all those Forces very > long; considering that the average demon in Hell has 7 Forces, I doubt > they're very fond of humans that are on a par with them. No doubt, but I would assume their survival would depend on which Principality they ended up in. Sheol, Abbadon or Shal-Mari is bad news for any human, but I can easily see Asmodeus permitting damned humans to retain their Forces and play the Game against his demons. After all, if any demons lose they obviously deserved to. Baal could go either way; perhaps the damned are used as target practice, but then perhaps the best of them are honored with induction into the armies of Hell. The other thing is that putting famous people in Hell is a lot of fun. There's just something cool about finding Solomon as Asmodeus's chief of staff, or meeting Rommel in Baal's armies, or running into Cecil B. DeMille shooting a feature for Nybbas. Fiating this possibility out of existence is way too boring IMO. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:00:12 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Bevan Thomas wrote: > > Just to be picky.... > > Anarchy does not mean no rules, but simply no leaders. On the other > hand, the might-makes-right rule could be a twisted form of anarchy > (as long as no one rose to permanent power). > However, I've always been found of Lilith (Biblical or In > Nomine-ish), and I think I'll go with the In Nomine rulebooks when > they say that unique among the Superiors, Lilith embraces all forms > of her word, good and bad. She's as much for no slavery as she is > for no gun-control. Actually, I regard both of these as Good Things(tm). :) To shift the politics to something less inflamatory, I've been reading Max Stirner's _The Ego and Its Own_ recently, and it strikes me this is a perfect book to steal from if you are running the more philosophical sort of demon of Freedom: What is not supposed to be my concern? First and foremost, the Good Cause, then God's cause, the cause of mankind, of truth, of freedom, of humanity, of justice; further, the cause of my people, my prince, my fatherland; finally, even the cause of Mind, and a thousand other causes. Only my cause is never to be my concern. "Shame on the egoist who thinks only of himself!" [...] I have no need to take up each thing that wants to throw its cause on us and show that it is occupied only with itself, not with us, only with its good, not with ours. Look at the rest for yourselves. Do truth, freedom, humanity, justice, desire anything else than that you grow enthusiastic and serve them? [...] I for my part take a lesson from them, and propose, instead of further unselfishly serving those great egoists, rather to be the egoist myself. God and mankind have concerned themselves for nothing, for nothing but themselves. Let me then likewise concern myself for myself, who am equally with God the nothing of all others, who am my all, who am the only one. Stirner was a deeply screwed up little man, but of the sort I admire rather than laugh at. His book is very good; there's a fierceness and passion that makes up for the fact that he chiefly relies on proof-by- repetition to make his case. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:46:56 -0500 From: "A.Hamilton" Subject: Re: IN> AIM users? I'm on AIM. At least during EST work hours. USFmarkp, for anyone that cares to message me. *yes, I realize this is a late response* A.Hamilton > Oh dear God! 179 InNomine messages on Monday morning. What happened to you > people? Don't you get any sleep during the WE?!? Just kidding... > > > errr, you got AOL Instant Messenger? > Good question, actually. Is there anybody on this list who's using AIM? If > yes, care to publish your screen name? Mine is Callicius. Yeah, I know, but > do you know how hard it is to find a nick that's not been taken yet?? > > > Anyway, back to the 59 remaining messages. The long ones... > > Laurent. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:01:06 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Nephilim and Gorgon Stats Actually, all of this stuff is covered in the CPG, and most of it has already been explained by other people. I'm sure David will come to the defense of his book and explain it if you really want. On top of what everybody else's said. > 2> Are they Celestial or Corporeal entities or some perculiar hybrid of > both....(they can hit Celestial beings and Corporeal no matter which > form). They're all pretty Corporal except for the next little bit of being able to get supernatural disadvantages, like Stigmata and what not. > 1> Did the Grigori use the Song of Fruitation or interbreed with humans, > if the latter was just 2 out of six pregancies Nephalim.... Nope. As per the heretical GURPS IN, the Grigori are the only choir that doesn't need the Song of Fruition to mate with humans. They were created so much like humans that they can do it naturally without the Song. That's where the problem comes in. I don't think there would have been a big enough problem for the choir to be outcast otherise. > 1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? Well, you never know, but my personal choice would be Eli. I'm sure there's a bunch of little hippie children running around thanks to him. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:48:22 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Saints in Hell I dunno. I got the impression that Shal-Mari was a better sort of realm for humans. If he's smart and watches his step, then he could keep his forces and do pretty well (just look what Shal-Mari did to Errol Flynn). Sure if he's not careful, then he get's screwed, but all the principalities are like that. At least SM is better then Tartarus or Abbadon. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Krishnaswami, Neel To: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 5:37 AM Subject: Re: IN> Saints in Hell > > No doubt, but I would assume their survival would depend on which > Principality they ended up in. Sheol, Abbadon or Shal-Mari is bad news > for any human, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:05:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine> The Matrix William J. Keith wrote: > Quite correct. Animals, Plants, Fungi, Monerans, and I can't > remember what the fifth one is at the moment. Protoctista, alias Protista, alias Protozoa (and their allies). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:25:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In> Angel of Emancipation Bevan Thomas wrote: > However, I've always been found of Lilith (Biblical or In > Nomine-ish), [...] A nit: She isn't really biblical. She doesn't really show up as a distinct literary figure until the Middle Ages, though she seems to be based on some Mesopotamian demonology. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:03:09 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:56:55 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 - - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Bowden" To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 7:30 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 >(I mean, come on -- flipping demons the bird and >going "LOOOOOO-SERRRR!" has got to be one of the >favorite pastimes of Servitors of the Wind, Odd. Servitors of Theft do precisely the same thing. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:25:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Time Zones... At 10:15 PM -0600 10/30/00, Santiago wrote: >>--- John Dallman wrote: >>>How about if you're in a polar zone and there isn't going to be a >>>sunset for weeks? [...] > Actually, they're both screwed during both winter and summer. >If the sun stays up (or down) for several months, then there's no >sunrise or sunset during that whole time... Though it's not precisely canon, I freely encourage GMs to tell their players, should said players be annoying with such questions, exactly what Santiago said: "Ya don't get any Essence till the next sunset, in a few months. Now you know why your higher-up threatened to deport you there. Any _more_ stupid questions?" - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:25:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Time Zones... At 3:08 PM -0600 10/29/00, Erich S. Arendall wrote: >> In polar zones, use essentially the same rule. Take whenever they last >got >> a point of Essence, and replenish it every 24 hours or so. > >Remember, this also applies to Limbo, as per Revelations III: Heaven & Hell! >:) Only weekly. IIRC. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:25:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> What *are* Songs? At 4:27 AM +0000 10/30/00, Kay Dekker wrote: = >If anyone just says "It's all in _Liber >Canticorum_, dummy!" I shall _cry_, 'cos >I don't have it, can't afford it (yes, I >am _that_ broke!), [...] but tell me that >anyway, so at least I can tell my players >"You want the answers, you buy the group the >book!". It's in that book. O:> >Whiny preamble over. My understanding, so >far: Songs can have, but don't need, vocal >and/or physical 'components' (_IN_, p47). > >Are these fixed, in that anyone who knows a >particular Song could look at or listen to >another Celestial performing that Song and >know, or at least have a good idea of, what >the Song is? Each _performance_ by any given individual is unique, but there are common elements which can be recognized with a Perception roll by someone familiar with that Song. (Unless it's being done entirely mentally, of course.) >Secondly, what do Songs (and here I mean >the 'mental invocation' of p47, which seems >to be the only necessary component) actually >consist of? Mentally "playing" them. >p 46 says that they are 'complicated >themes', but that seems perplexing. I think you're analyzing it a little much -- all that stuff doesn't really mesh with their role in the game. If you have a player who asks, say it's ineffable and go from there. (Though learning Songs in other ways than from Superiors is covered in the Liber Canticorum.) Would type more but have baby sleeping on my left hand. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:25:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Saints in Hell At 6:38 PM -0600 10/30/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >I was under the impression that one's Forces were visible when Celestial. >> >> Even if they are (and for non-Superiors to be counting Forces with more than> plus/minus 2 or 3 errors; GM call!), there are still the occasional 7-Force> Hellsworn. > >I wouldn't expect them to be allowed to keep all those Forces very long; >considering that the average demon in Hell has 7 Forces, I doubt they're >very fond of humans that are on a par with them. True, though the occasional 7-Forcer showing up at the Gates of Hades wouldn't necessarily be _instantly_ singled out as a Saintly spy. Just singled out for the Force-stripping pens... O:> (Though actually, except for the "numeric" status, why would any Prince care about Corporeal Forces? Song use? Hm. Aside from that, some corporeal brute is just a larger Essence-storage unit... >(I would assume that you can get a rough indication of how many Forces >someone has in celestial form, since the number of Celestial Forces >gives you a bonus to Perception rolls, but a margin of error of 2-3 >sounds reasonable.) That's really more applicable in the corporeal realm, where one needs that Per roll -- but I'd certainly give _rough_ Celestial/overall Force "bigness" in celestial realms; "She looks tough," or "he seems kinda wimpy," or "they look about as combat capable as you lot." - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:43:19 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Cleaning out the IN tray Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:31:26 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Cleaning out the IN tray >3> The man just has some REALLY bad luck. > > >- -Charlemagne A somewhat nonstandard answer to the question "So, why hasn't the Game found, captured and interrogated this Renegade yet?". Very, very nonstandard. Possibly even unique. I hadn't considered dreamscapes, BTW. Thanks. :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Everything else (not that there is, right now): http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/main.html Last updated 9/5/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:40:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Emancipation At 5:24 PM -0400 10/30/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>> Zedikiah >>> Angel of Emancipation >> >>You realise that Lillith will be devoting time to squishing him like a bug, >>right? ;;;) > >Nonono. Lilith likes him just fine! Of course, she'd like him _even >better_ if he were to switch sides... To _her_ side, of course. Cherub, Djinn -- what does it matter when they owe you their very Hearts... (Though considering the Choir Attunement for Cherubim of the Wind, I find the Word deeply ironic, given to one of them. Think about ir.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:47:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Nephilim and Gorgon Stats At 5:12 PM -0500 10/30/00, Charles Phipps wrote: >Hey this is an odd question but has anyone actually ever pondered what the >characteristics of the Nephilim and Gorgons (the "off" result of the Song of >Fruitation)? > >I think these should be covered somewhere.... IIRC, they are -- the CPG. Working from memory... >1> Are the Nephilim innately evil? No. But they are often quite insane and might as well be. >2> Are they Celestial or Corporeal entities or some perculiar hybrid of >both....(they can hit Celestial beings and Corporeal no matter which form). Ew, no. They are mortals. (But their souls have never shown up in the loer Heavens to date.) >4> Can they use songs and do they possess attunements/have a resonance? If they have 6+ Forces, they can get the required Symphonic Awareness to use/learn Songs. As mortals, they don't have attunements or resonances per-se. >1> Can the "pregnancies gone wrong" also produce mythical creatures other >than medusa's race? The Phoneix for instance or the Fenris wolf and the >like.... "Gorgon" is just a label for human-ethereal crossbreeds, not _only_ the Medusoids. >1> Did the Grigori use the Song of Fruitation or interbreed with humans, if >the latter was just 2 out of six pregancies Nephalim.... No -- Grigori are just inter-fertile. Blame God. >1> Have any archangels/Demon princes corporeal children? Fnord. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:53:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Grigori At 7:03 PM -0400 10/30/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >Separate question... were any Princes involved in the tempting of the Grigori? Unclear -- the timing might be tricky. No canon there that I recall -- yet. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:58:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> InNominati At 6:44 PM -0800 10/30/00, Sean McCarthy wrote: >(Of course, I'm sure the official SJG answer to this involves them not >having the license to do that...anecdotal evidence points to the licensing >being rather strict.) Besides, _Intervention Divine_, the French INS/MV CCG, already exists. Just ask Maya... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:59:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. Tick. At 7:08 AM -0800 10/30/00, Maurice Lane wrote: [...] >welcome to come up with their own ideas about Saminga* >In Love. Anita Blake? ("Looooook, myyy leetle Soldier! I'm so proud!" "AUGH! No, _way_, creep!" ) Ahem. Ah! Well, we know demons exist in Laurell K. Hamilton's universe, so likely angels do as well... It would take some mutating, since the undead in that universe seem rather closer to WW vampires, and "True Faith" works, but it could be interesting to try to map things around. But not by me. Baby sleeping on arm and all that. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:59:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Alien angels? At 11:21 AM -0500 10/30/00, Krishnaswami, Neel wrote: [...] >IMC, there were millions of intelligent species throughout the >universe. The twist was that each one had a test equivalent to the >Garden of Eden at some early point in its history. You've read the Diane Duane books, haven't you? (Such as _Book of Night with Moon_ and the "So you want to be a wizard?" series...) O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:06:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Well, if it's Superiors Weekend... At 7:30 PM -0800 10/30/00, Charles E Smith wrote: >Vocatiel >Archangel of Communication > > "The world is talking. Listen."<<< > >*claps* Bravo! Excellent work! :D (Just one question -- what Choir? Did I miss it?) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:04:35 -0700 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Emancipation > >Demon Princes don't work that way. Someone with a similar Word is not > >viewed as a potential ally; they are viewed as a threat. * > > Ben please bother to read my entire post in the context of LILITH'S mind. > Lilith viewed him as a resource that could be manipulated. He's proven Demon Princes don't work that way. Nor does Heaven. "Hey! Let's take an angel who admittedly won't be worth the time and effort to kill and give him a Word in direct competition to Lilith, who has been playing this game for eons!" ... "Hey! Let's get an angel kacked in fifty seconds or less!" > -Charlemagne Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:13:26 -0700 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> InNominati > Besides, _Intervention Divine_, the French INS/MV CCG, already exists. > Just ask Maya... No! No CCG! CCG means 666! CCG are everything that is evil in the world! They are our dark whores that keep our hobbies alive through their corrupt wares! Agh! No, no, use Illuminati Deluxe rules! Snazzier. No CCG for you. Darned licenses. They ruin all of our fun. > --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. > "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:36:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> In Nomine on the brain... Okay, someone else elsewhere did a search of www.700club.org, looking at their takes on Pokemon, and reported on what they found. Now, this bit just jumped out at me... Profile: John Paul Jackson IS THIS A GAME? [...] When someone goes deep into witchcraft they first accept free demonic forces inside of them; You see, I started thinking, "Corporeal, Ethereal, or Celestial Forces?" - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:24:23 -0500 From: hbias@earthlink.net (Harris Bias) Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 >>(I mean, come on -- flipping demons the bird and >>going "LOOOOOO-SERRRR!" has got to be one of the >>favorite pastimes of Servitors of the Wind, > >Odd. Servitors of Theft do precisely the same thing. > Yeah, except they do it to angels too. - -- G. Harris Bias hbias@earthlink.net "He had some measure of the infuriating trait that causes a young man to be a nonconformist for its own sake and found that the surest way to shock people, in those days, was to believe that some kinds of behavior were bad, and others good, and that is was reasonable to live one's life accordingly." -Neal Stephenson, "The Diamond Age" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:09:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Why the Grigori can't just repent (was In> Grigori) Just FYI, in the original tale of the Grigori, as related in one of the Books of Enoch I think, there were 200 of them, led by one Semyaza, and they all took an oath together to go down to the Earth and carry on as they did. So, in the source material, they are already bound together by their oath, and, if any future canon picks up on this, this would explain why the whole choir was punished en masse. (If I recall correctly, the books of I & II Enoch are pseudepigraphical books -- the next rung below aprcryphal -- describing the visions of Enoch. They're chock full of angel and demon names.) ("Grigori," by the way, is just an alternate transliteration of the Greek name "Gregory," meaning "watcher.") Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:28:05 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine on the brain... - --On Tuesday, October 31, 2000 2:36 PM -0500 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Okay, someone else elsewhere did a search of www.700club.org, > looking at their takes on Pokemon, and reported on what they found. > Now, this bit just jumped out at me... > > Profile: John Paul Jackson > IS THIS A GAME? > > [...] When someone > goes deep into witchcraft they first accept free demonic forces > inside of them; > > You see, I started thinking, "Corporeal, Ethereal, or Celestial > Forces?" > Ethereal, Celestial, and then Corporeal, in that order. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Uh...why are you all looking at me like that?") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:41:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1889 Harris Bias wrote: > "He had some measure of the infuriating trait that causes a young > man to be a nonconformist for its own sake and found that the > surest way to shock people, in those days, was to believe that > some kinds of behavior were bad, and others good, and that is was > reasonable to live one's life accordingly." > -Neal Stephenson, "The Diamond Age" This reminds me very strongly of the hero of "The Man Who Was Thursday," by G. K. Chesterton, frequently cited author on this list. Chesterton's hero was of a long line of non-conformists. He had an aunt who was a vegetarian and another who came close to advocating cannibalism. He had an uncle who never wore a hat (in the Edwardian period) and another uncle who was arrested for wearing nothing BUT a hat, etc. By the time he was born, there was nothing left to rebel against except rebellion, so he, the family black sheep, became aggressively normal and took work as a police detective. Earl "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly." -- G. K. Chesterton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:51:48 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine on the brain... At 2:36 PM -0500 10/31/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Okay, someone else elsewhere did a search of www.700club.org, looking at >their takes on Pokemon, and reported on what they found. Now, this >bit just jumped out at me... > > Profile: John Paul Jackson > IS THIS A GAME? > > [...] When someone > goes deep into witchcraft they first accept free demonic forces inside of > them; > >You see, I started thinking, "Corporeal, Ethereal, or Celestial Forces?" Here I thought the Demon of Pokemon was either a Servitor of the Media or the Game. I had no idea he worked for Haiphatas. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:55:35 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Why the Grigori can't just repent (was In> Grigori) At 3:09 PM -0500 10/31/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Just FYI, in the original tale of the Grigori, as related in >one of the Books of Enoch I think, there were 200 of them, >led by one Semyaza, and they all took an oath together to >go down to the Earth and carry on as they did. So, in the >source material, they are already bound together by their >oath, and, if any future canon picks up on this, this would >explain why the whole choir was punished en masse. > >(If I recall correctly, the books of I & II Enoch are >pseudepigraphical books -- the next rung below aprcryphal -- >describing the visions of Enoch. They're chock full of >angel and demon names.) Enoch I and II are also a *serious* head trip. I mean it. Enoch's visions of the glories of Heaven alone are worth the money. Two big thumbs up from me. And yeah -- they're not considered Apocrypha, mostly because they weren't discovered or translated when the Apocrypha was, though the work itself is contemporary to a good number of the books of the Apocrypha. They go in depth into the crimes of the Grigori, which were both crimes of sensuality and the teaching of magic to humanity. And they talk about the Archangels who came down and whupped on 'em good. It includes our old friends Michael and Uriel. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1892 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.