From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 27 21:47:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29614 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:47:16 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA22389 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:48:29 -0600 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:48:29 -0600 Message-Id: <200011280348.VAA22389@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1943 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1943 In this digest: IN> Webpage Offer Re: IN> Webpage Offer IN> A Challenge to Y'all IN> Dr. Who IN> Fwd: Request for Copyright Violation Fwd: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types IN> Fwd: Deus Ex Machina Re: IN> new to the list, the game and all Re: IN> Urban Legends Part IV IN> How Do Word Forces Work? Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate Re: IN> IN: Vaptoys Re: IN> How Do Word Forces Work? Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II Launching nukes (was Re: IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II) Re: IN> new to the list, the game and all Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:08:52 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Webpage Offer > Don't tell me you don't have the time. Again, neither > do I, but _I_ manage. > > Get a webpage. Show off your stuff. Glow in the > egoboo of random people email you and going 'wow'*. Coincidentally, I am currently the proud owner of godmachine.org and have 500 megs of space to fill up. I was planning to have a fairly large section on In Nomine anyway, so if anyone, like Mike and Moe, has great material but no time or know-how to post it somewhere, talk to me. Moe's right. As great as the IN Collection is, tons of fabulous material never gets up there. Don't let that great idea linger in the dust! Post it on the web so we can all steal if for use in our campaigns! Later. Jonathan P.S. Moe, what's "egoboo"? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:16:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Webpage Offer Jonathan Walton wrote: > P.S. Moe, what's "egoboo"? If I may: "ego-boost," i.e. praise. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:36:41 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: IN> A Challenge to Y'all Create a Celestial (Angel or Demon doesn't matter really) with the Following Word: Chutzpah (or However it's spelled) Bradley Paranial, Elohite of the Sword. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:34:07 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dr. Who Some of you may remember a character of mine from a while back called Isaac. This is based alot on him if you remember. (he's in the Archives around Nov 18) Dr. Who Elohim of Time in service to Destiny (depending on incarnation Outcast and even briefly a Habbalah) Timelord Friend of the Sages Cor-2 Str-4 Agi-4* Eth-6 Int-12 Pre-12* Cel-3 Will-6 Per-6* Vessel: 13 Human 2/ Servants: The Doctor has a tendancy to pick them up....don't ask how. Songs: * Song of Attraction (Corporeal 1/, Ethereal 4/, Celestial 3/), Song of Charm (Corporeal 1, Ethereal 2/, Celestial 4/), Song of Fruitation (Corporeal 1/, Celestial 3/), Song of Harmony (Corporeal 3/, Ethereal 6/), Song of Healing (Corporeal 3/, Celestial 3/), Song of Shields (Corporeal 2/), Song of Tongues 4/ Skills: Artistry 2/, Chemistry 2/, Driving 2/, Computer operation 4/, Escape 2/, Electronics 6/, Fast Talk 3/, Fighting 3/, Dodging 4/, Large Weapon (Sword) 4/, Lock Picking 1/, Medicine 4/, Move Silently 1/, Pick Pocket 2/, Ranged weapon (pistol) 2/, Running 1/, Savoir Faire 6/, Survival 4/, Tactics 3/, Throwing 2/, Tracking 6/* Artifacts: Tardis ???/, Reliquary Scarf 2/, Reliquary Coat 10/ * These skills tend to change drastically as the Doctor improves himself, suffers amnesia, loses and gains forces. Special Rites: * Change history for the better Attunements: Abradabra, Cherub of Time, Divine Logic (one of the Doctor's favorites), Divine Destiny, Elohim of Time, Friend of Sages, Master of the Past and Present, Seraph of Time, Synchronicity (WELL OF COURSE HE HAS IT!), Timelord, Vassal of Time Ah good evening, I am the Doctor. Doctor Who? Why yes some people have tended to call me that yes. Oh dear I seem to have confused you...very well my name is...oh I see you remember a TV series about me...no I'm not an ethereal though that is a very astute hypothesis young one. Actually I'm not quite sure precisley how all my adventures got on the device created by Nybbas but so far from what I've managed to observe it has been quite a positive effect and thus I am in no rush to adress the issue. Oh I see your curious about if any of it's true...well that's somewhat insulting...actually it's quite right. Very well I should begin at the beggining...not the whole beggining but the beggining of my tale. I work for an Archangel named Isaac who has a distinct order of Angels called Timelords that are roughly are charged with observing the precacious flow of time and to make sure that it flows properly....each of us equipped with a T.A.R.D.I.S. which allows us to travel through time...err you have that look on your face. Do not worry there are strict rules about interferring with the flow of mankind's destiny and fate by the order of Archangel Isaac...unfortunately some Timelords like myself have broken it. I must admit that I do not regret going outcast to do what I felt was right for I've had the most interesting adventures and saved the world of Earth and many other species many a time... Hahaha you didn't think humanity was the only race out there did you? Oh I see you did. In any case the demons throughout history and space are very dangerous and sometimes just as bad the many peoples of the universe. I fear the secrets of time travel have fallen into the hands of the forces of Hell and the unprepared for it far too often and I feel it's my job to best deal with it...one of the Timelords has even fallen and is my most continuing menace. Amazing isn't it yes? Unfortunately right now I fear one of Vapula's servitors has discovered finally the secret of time travel and is heading into the past to share the secrets of nuclear technology with the Nazis, he must be stopped and I've already sent us on our way.... Oh dear I forgot to let you off didn't I? Timelord Distinction Isaac is nothing if not a generous archangel and the distinction of serving as a Timelord is a particularly honorable and powerful one in his servitude. Aside from the respect this honor accords among the servants of Heaven, though admittadly it is a secret from most of the lower factions in the Heavens (especially those who deal exclusively with one world), the Timelord distinction has numerous benifits. The first benifit is the bestowal of 13 vessels of the Timelord's specifications upon the persons in question to switch to whenever they are mortally wounded in the enforcement of the Archangel's will. Also the Timelord is presented with a T.A.R.D.I.S to be continually updated and serve as his personal vehicle and some suggest even a type of tether though the latter is ridiculous despite some Timelord's obsession with theirs. The vessels and Tardis can only be physically removed, even if a Timelord should go outcast or even fall.... T.A.R.D.I.S Artifact Level ??? The T.A.R.D.I.S is a device that was constructed with Eli by Isaac combining the best aspects of technology from a multitude of races, cultures, and angelic works. Jean had no role in it's creation despite his obvious admiration for the beuty of the works and it is something that he would pay dearly for to aquire one of the items. T.A.R.D.I.S's are equipped with a number of amazing features such as nearly (if not completely) unlimited space, a link to all three Celestial planes and perhaps a fourth if Time is truly seperate from them all, and the ability to literally travel to anywhere/anytime in the Symphony. It is something to be thankful for that the Master's T.A.R.D.I.S. is believed destroyed for the device in the hands of Kronos proved to be one of the most horrible tragedies ever to befall the forces of Heaven. Note that T.A.R.D.I.S's are in need of constant maintence and repair by celestial/corporeal/ethereal craftsmen and if not so properly maintained they tend to bust down in profound and often bizzare ways. The cloaking device is usually the first thing to go. - -Charlemagne Comments? P.S. Anyone want to do the Master, fallen servitor of Kronos and Demon of Paradox? How about the Daleks? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:38:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Request for Copyright Violation >Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:39:39 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [lizard ] > >Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:40:16 +0800 >From: lizard >Subject: Furfur > >Could someone please email me a copy of Furfur's Attunements and Distinctions? > [Your Friendly List Admin notes that while private copyright violation is very hard to notice, a kind person would attempt to give summaries of the attunements and Distinctions instead of the actual text. Probably faster to type, among other reasons. - --Beth, List Admin who's forwarding this stuff] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:33:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:00:06 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 8 > >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:57:42 -0500 >From: Marc Bowden >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Laying down the celestial smack on WOD-types > >--On Friday, November 24, 2000 12:29 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy > wrote: > >>>>> Any thoughts here? >>> >>> Ah, yes, then there's the truly unstoppable Shedim. Scariest >>> things in the world to have on your ass, especially if you have no >>> way of getting at them while they're in celestial form. Love that >>> line about "an indestructible drunk with an infinite supply of >>> rental cars"... >> >> And I guess they can possess the Vampires.... oh dear, look at >> that.... now you're my pawn, I'll just leave you here on this cliff >> at 6.55am in summer. Bye. >> >>>> Now it's "Ofanite of Fire -- with *napalm*! VAMPIRE ROAST! >>>> WOOOOO-HOOOO!" [1] >>>> >>>> And I tell you -- if by some weird cosmic shift I ever end up >>>> DM'ing a Vampire campaign, I *will* send in the Malakim if it >>>> starts getting out of hand... >>> >>> But the Ofanim can set *themselves* on fire. Nothing like >>> being chased by a flaming superhuman avenger with the equivalent of >>> a few levels of celerity... >> >> Ah yes. Not to mention the Smiting capability. > > Sure would keep the brooding - and now I'm in love with this term, >"doorknob" - vampire population down, plus giving some rational >explanation for "the Game" in WW... > >Jimmy: "You can't talk to us like that! We're the masters of the night! >We're - *mmrmph!*" > >Johnny's eyes go wide, using Celerity to clamp a hand over his buddy's >mouth in an eyeblink. " - Shriners. We're Shriners." > >Marc. Just Marc. >Elohite Angel of Salvation >("You want to face armies of guys in those little cars? I didn't think >so!") > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:35:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Deus Ex Machina >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 13:19:56 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 7 > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:17:39 -0500 >From: Jonathan Walton >Subject: Deus Ex Machina > >Deus Ex Machina: >Steampunk In Nomine > > It was the most terrible and beautiful thing that anyone had ever seen. > Legion, the newly-named Demon Prince of Corruption, stood transfixed as if >staring into the light of an oncoming train. Like a thunderbolt, the >Archangel bore down on him, an u n stoppable force of nature that would not >be turned aside. And then, in the passing of a single instant, that being >that had once been a Shedite, that "it" that was now "we," became light. >Archangel and Demon Prince negated each other out in a clash that was >nothing but glory and hellfire. > In the end, which side could claim the winner? All that can be said is >that, for better or worse, the world was changed. But those who actually >saw the Celestial being of Corruption bathed in a sea of Lightning will >remember the sacrifice that was made. > Jean went out with a bang. > > It was a world that easily could have been . . . > After the Archangel of Lightning sacrificed himself to destroy Legion, his >duties were parceled out to Raphael and Eli, but the world would surely >feel his loss. At first, humanity seemed to actually benefit from having >Jean gone. Eli and Raphael were much more inclined to help humans along >with new inventions and developments. However, the problems weren't long >in beginning. > A very dissonant Elohite named Vapula was able to steal the secrets of the >steam engine from the Halls of Invention (security had grown lax under Eli) >and quickly Fell down to Hell with that knowledge intact. Lucifer was >quick to see the potential available and Vapula was awarded the Word of >Steam, one that was quickly promoted to the Princedom of Technology as the >Habbalah's power grew. Still, without Jean to promote electronics as the >natural descendent of Lightning, history was headed in a very different >direction. Though Vapula's Word encompassed a wide domain, he had a real >affection for his original Word, and non-mechanical technologies had a hard >time getting his interest or patronage. > Back in Heaven, it was clear that Eli and Raphael weren't going to be able >to counter the new Prince of Technology. A new Archangel was needed and >Gabriel's candidate, a trusted Malakite of Fire named Soldekai, was soon >awarded the Word of Steam, a Word that soon became the symbol for a new >age, the Age of Steam. > > Sound interesting to anyone? I'm starting to make plans to run a PbeM >game in the world of Steampunk In Nomine. If anyone is interested in being >a part of it, e-mail me. Also, if anyone gets inspired to write up >Soldekai, Archangel of Steam, go right ahead. Saves me the trouble, y'know >:) Obviously, this little intro is just the beginning and I can't wait to >explore the rest of the world. However, I want to get as much input from >potential players as possible before fleshing everything out. More >information about Deus Ex Machina, as the campaign will likely be called, >will soon be up at my new domain, godmachine.org, as soon as all the weird >hosting stuff gets worked out. > >Later. >Jonathan > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:03:22 +0100 From: "Philippe Bolay" Subject: Re: IN> new to the list, the game and all I dont really get that. Okay, havin a word is an edge, but what makes it that big? Also, in the rules it is often mentioned that a single demon could easily wipe out a whole group of humans, but when I mastered a single player session with one angel (malakim under Dominic) he got his ass wipped by a very few humans with quite small guns.. What have I missed? Philippe Bolay *snip* As for PC's having Words of their own, it's certainly something that you can let them work toward. But letting PC's start out Word-bound is a Very Bad Idea from a game balance standpoint. *snip* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:12:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Urban Legends Part IV - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:46:44 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Walton Subject: > IN> Urban Legends Part IV > > (friendly exasperation) > > Mike, why the H**L don't you have a webpage? This > stuff oughta be getting a wider audience (not to > mention a slightly more print-friendly format). I have the content, and I have the time. What I don't have is a system that I can build it on... but I'm working on that. Hopefully, I'll have something up in the spring. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:14:22 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: IN> How Do Word Forces Work? Well, How do they? Bradley Paranial _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:15:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Hmmm. No books with me: acquring a Geas doesn't cause > disturbance, right? Nope. It's a Resonance effect, and Resonances don't disturb the Symphony. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:19:12 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN: Vaptoys - --- Cthulhu wrote: > This is my first major Artifact creation, and is done without the > benefit > of the *Liber Reliquarium * or *Superiors 4* (for Vapula), so there > might be some glaring errors... please forgive. This may need some fine-tuning, but the core idea kicks astral! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:24:12 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> How Do Word Forces Work? At 4:14 PM -0600 11/27/00, Bradley Paranial wrote: >Well, How do they? Caffiene, spit and attitude. (More seriously, that's a Game Master's Guide question.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:43:04 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones >Hotlines This sort of stuff is standard issue in the campaigns I've been in. From the player's point of view, you can just call an ordinary phone number to reach a bank of operators staffed by your Superior. The sort of handwaving explanation is that somewhere your boss has a tether with a huge bank of ordinary phones, and your call can be patched up to the Celestial plane by means of some bit of Vaputech or Jeanology. The logic behind this is that Superiors are going to keep with the times, and that there's no need to resort to Songs and artifacts when ordinary mortal technology will do the trick, sans disturbance. Of course, you shouldn't mention anything too important over a cell phone, though using a scrambled hard line is generally okay. This tends to streamline play, and doesn't affect the options of the players too much in our games, given that minor tethers for someone or other are found every few blocks in any reasonably populated area. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:45:28 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Santiago" To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 3:43 PM Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones [snip] > The logic behind this is that Superiors are > going to keep with the times, and that there's no need to resort to > Songs and artifacts when ordinary mortal technology will do the > trick, sans disturbance. Of course, you shouldn't mention anything > too important over a cell phone, though using a scrambled hard line > is generally okay. Why is "Enemy Of The State" running inexorably through my mind? Especially since the National Security Agency mainframes are a tether of either Vapula or Jean, depending on who you ask? No matter which way it goes, one side knows that the other side owns the single most sophisticated set of uber-god phone-tapping gear on the planet... ... and there ain't a long-distance phone link in the world that I know of that doesn't go through at least one microwave or satellite relay (IOW, that isn't being *broadcast*). Oh, and there's a word for people who trust their PGPhone scrambler chips in a world where both sides have tech geeks of superhuman intellect and resources... ... "busted". [1] IMO, anyway. Especially given that it isn't just the other side's phone taps you have to worry about. What the heck happens to the Celestial Masquerade (to borrow a term from White Wolf) when some unsuspecting mortal picks up your conversation? Between the local cops, state cops, federal cops, and spooks all tapping various phones for various reasons (doesn't it just *blow* that some guy who lives in a next door apartment to yours is dealing drugs, so the local narcs tapped the pay phone in the lobby of your apartment building 'cause it's the one he uses all the time?), not to mention the private freaks with cell-phone scanners, eventually somebody's conversation is going to be overheard and recorded by somebody who wasn't supposed to hear it. After all, if *everybody* is using the phones all the time, the laws of averages say that eventually somebody is gonna get zapped. And those averages go *WAY* up if they find out where your Tether phone-bank is, so they can spike the junction box directly... which is really rather easy to do, simply by comparing a list of known Tethers with the phone company's list of known subscribers for the kind of hookup it takes to drive a 200-extension switchboard and a room full of operators... [2] - -- Chuckg [1] As far as using Jean/Vaputech phone scramblers... a) both of them hate widespread passing out of above-normal-human-level tech, especially in something that can get lost as easily as a cell phone and b) that just turns it back into an armor-vs-warhead race between the two camps. [2] Judgement doesn't usually think this mundanely, but if the Game hasn't made damn sure to infiltrate the billing departments of the various phone companies, they're way stupider than I think they are. The phone company knows where *EVERYBODY* lives, by name, address, social security #, credit card #, and (of course) phone #. Even if you're unlisted in the directory, you're still listed with the phone company itself... be it ordinary home subscriber line or top-secret US government hotline. (Tom Clancy's _Clear And Present Danger_ had an amusing scene where the evil drug-lord's chief spook sent a private fax directly to the National Security Advisor's unlisted classified fax #... and all he had to do to get that top-secret # was slip a fifty to a phone company flunky, because classified or not the phone company still had to know which # to charge the bill to.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:49:18 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to underestimate >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:34:04 -0500 >From: "Jason F. McBrayer" > >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Contest> Demons you tend to >underestimate > >>There's been some discussion on the list of how the >>simple additive mechanic for upgrading Geases doesn't >>work very well. I would use a house rule that for >>each higher level geas, you need two of the lower >>level. So to build a Geas/6 from Geas/1s, you'd need >>2^(6-1) = 32 Geas/1s. Still possible to get from a >>regular customer in not much more than a month, but >>not _quite_ as bad. > >That actually sounds pretty reasonable, considering >that you actually have to RUN the fast food joint. >That's not the most fun job in the universe. :) > >Hmmm. No books with me: acquring a Geas doesn't cause >disturbance, right? > >Moe By the way, in G:IN the canon rule is that four Geas/n can be traded up to a Geas/n+1. (It's not explicitly denied higher levels like a Geas/7, but those can only be inflicted on willing beings.) So a Geas/6 from Geas/1s would in G:IN require 1024 meals, or regular feeding for about three years. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:34:11 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones Phones play an important part in INS/MV (the French version) too. Really, they do. You see, angels phone Notre-Dame (it's their administrative HQ, after all) and demons phone the local demonic HQ, if they need to sort out any little problems or request information. No problems? Well... put it this way, you just need to be put through to the correct department, then quote your mission number and head of mission, then speak to the right person, then be passed to someone else, who's just on their teabreak, and... oh, did I mention that all the really _useless_ angels and demons tend to get low-grade jobs like handling the phone switchboards? Yes. Precisely. Don't worry. Just stay nice and calm and talk to the phone, and pray that you aren't about to get attacked by some demons of Baal with *whacking huge* chainsaws. ("I said a squad of Laurentians! I said it was URGENT!!!") Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:09:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Abel (was Cain) At 9:57 AM -0500 11/27/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> But before she was a Princess, Lilith was a 15-Force human. >> >> After she became a Princess, she entered into the "doubt and >> uncertainty" land. > >So that sure sounds like Galahad, the Ethereal Superior, can >be an add-on to canon, rather than a violation of it. Ethereal Superiors, undead Superiors, Saintly Superiors, sheep Superiors... They're all out there in Doubt and Uncertainty land, sure. But reeeeeeeeeeel unlikely to make it into _Canon_ Doubt and Uncertainty land, if ya know whatta mean. O;> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:06:16 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II Here we go again..... George Gremlin of the Game Cor-1 Str-2 Agi-2 Eth-2 Int-4 Pre-4 Cel-2 Wil-2 Per-6 Vessel: Fly 1/ Skills: Acrobatics 2/, Dodge 2/, Area Knowledge (Government Facilities) 6/, Tactics 2/, Tracking 6/ Songs: Entropy (Celestial 4/), Claws 2/ Attunements: Nope Fred is a Gremlin that is roughly 250 years of age and has thus far managed to completely avoid fledging as the Shedim he was created to be. Created by Asmodeus for the new United States's war core, Fred took his name from the reigning military commander of the time as he was assigned to one of the Balseraphs who had been given the task of hustling the United States's warhawks into becomming something dangerous to the world's governments at large. Fred took note of the dangers in his cat form and when the Balseraph in question was slain by a group of Malakim after trying to place his canidate on the Presidency, George learned a valuable lesson about people in the front line of the war....1. They're stupid 2. They die alot. For his survival and eidtec memory of the information his master had aquired, Asmodeus offered to fledge the demon as Fred humbly buzzed that he would actually love to continue spying but didn't feel he was yet worthy of the goal...and asked if he could have the vessel of a fly. Asmodeus curious to his servitor's ideas listened and realizing the creature was too cowardly to be an effective front line soldier granted it and George has been doing what he loves ever since. The Pentagon, Embassies, the Oval Office.... Unfortunately for Asmodeus the simple fact is that Fred doesn't actually want to stay a gremlin forever and while being a fly is all well and good it's certainly not the type of life one wants to be for the anxious and ambitious Shedim he DOES eventually want to be....he just wants to make it big and make it big fast. Following the "heroic" example of Haagenti, Fred intends to jump ship from the Game's corps to Belial's where he assumes it won't be too difficult to make it to Prince like the Big Fat one himself. Fred's plan is very simple....lie in wait for the meeting that will give the nuclear codes, request that fledging he's desired for years with any bit of the choice pieces of information he's been keeping from his Prince for years (even he doesn't suspect a gremlin of this kind of duplicity...why he treated Haagenti the way he did) and then possess one of the guys heading in the silos as he turns over the codes to Belial and let's the city of his choice be turned into a welcome to the family parade....he's hoping Baal will take aim at somebody requiring retaliation. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:29:08 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Launching nukes (was Re: IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Phipps" To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 5:06 PM Subject: IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II Relax, none of this stuff is classified... [snip] ... > why he > treated Haagenti the way he did) and then possess one of the guys heading in > the silos as he turns over the codes to Belial and let's the city of his > choice be turned into a welcome to the family parade....he's hoping Baal > will take aim at somebody requiring retaliation. Several slight problems... In order to launch the missile, you will need the President of the United States, at least one other person on the list [1] at least two silo officers. Correction -- if you use a nuclear missile submarine, you'll only need the landside people. The boomer guys will launch if the launch order looks valid, and their communications channels don't include real-time voice, so they will launch upon receipt of the proper code groups. (Of course, that changes 'two silo officers' to 'the entire crew of one of the ELF transmitter facilities') That's a *lot* of Shedim... especially given that there's something else you need besides the launch codes. (Which aren't spoken out loud in meetings anyway...) You need the *target coordinates* as well. The missiles have to be told where to go -- and the co-ordinate system they use is *not* standard latitude and longitude. The only people who have the map with the customized co-ordinate system that will translate the right set of numbers into "XX, YY = Moscow, AA, BB = Peking", etc. are... well, that map's in a very very secure place. Not even the silo officers or sub captains have a copy. [2] So it takes a lot more than just one Shedite possession and a set of overheard codes to end the world. The people who invented the launch process *really* didn't want accidents, so they put a whole lot of people in a whole lot of steps. And creating an ambiguous situation and then waiting for the guy out on the pointy end to think that communications have been cut off by an enemy first strike and launch his missiles doesn't work either. "Crimson Tide" (God, what a piece of trash) to the contrary, officers with nuclear missile launch keys are indoctrinated very strictly -- unless the launch order has crossed *every* I and dotted *every* T, you don't launch. In case of doubt, You Don't Launch. [4] Initiative (at least in this particular regard) is *NOT* a desired quality in the people who have to enter the codes and turn the keys. [5] - -- Chuckg [1] Two-man rule. Not even the President can order a nuclear launch without the order being confirmed by at least one other man. In the event of an overt attack on the US, the general on duty in NORAD HQ can serve as the second man... to launch an *offensive* strike, OTOH, takes the Vice President and/or a Cabinet-level official, or some other high-level appointee with the appropriate national security clearances such as the National Security Advisor or a senior CIA director. [3] This is to prevent the problem of the President suddenly having an episode... now *two* people have to lose it completely. [2] Which is a very effective security measure. You need the Permissive-Action Link enabling code to arm the warhead, and even if you hot-wire around that you still can't make the missile land where you want it to unless you know its own particular co-ordinate system, which is written down on only one set of maps that you don't have! [3] Yeah, I know I'm getting this particular bit from Tom Clancy. But Clancy usually does very good research,. so... [4] So what do they do if Washington DC gets nuked before they get any orders? Well, first they make *sure* it got nuked. Then they open that sealed set of orders in the safe, marked "Open Only If DC Gets Nuked". If it weren't for that set of orders, they'd still be waiting out there with their thumbs up. [5] Neither is hesitation, admitted. If the I's *are* dotted and the T's *are* crossed, then they *will* launch the sucker. It's just that there's so many darn I's and T's... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:46:59 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> new to the list, the game and all At 23:03 +0100 11/27/00, Philippe Bolay wrote: >I dont really get that. Okay, havin a word is an edge, but what makes it >that big? - - It generally gives you additional Word-related rites (which you can grant to others, with certain caveats). - - It usually grants one or more additional Servitor Attunements specific to the Word (which you can give to others, under certain circumstances). - - It gives you a new type of Forces (Word Forces), which can increase your Essence capacity, sometimes by quite a lot (for a big Word). - - The extra Forces make you harder to Remnantize or soul-kill (if I remember this right). A very minor Word isn't much of a big deal, but a decent one can be quite a power boost, depending on what it is. The major effects are due to the additional Essence you can spend, and whatever the attunements do. (Remember that a lot of attunements don't make noise, or require Essence.) > Also, in the rules it is often mentioned that a single demon could >easily wipe out a whole group of humans, but when I mastered a single player >session with one angel (malakim under Dominic) he got his ass wipped by a >very few humans with quite small guns.. >What have I missed? Vessel/6 and high Strength/Corporeal Forces -- 144 Body Hits in the worst case. Corporeal Healing/6 can be kind of nasty to face, too, though the Essence drain limits it. Ditto Corporeal Shields and Corporeal Form. And we're not even touching on resonances: Habbalah, Balseraphs, and Shedim can pretty easily turn a group of humans on each other, Calabim can just trash humans at range with resonance, with no obvious source of the destruction, and Impudites, well, why would those nice humans *want* to shoot the Impudite? (Not that the Impudite will kill them, though.) The *average* (7-Force) demon isn't a whole lot more powerful or harder to kill than a human. A combat-optimized 9-Forcer is another matter. The text may be a little loose in implying that most demons are a lot tougher than humans; I don't recall the exact passage. The average human has about 5-6 Body Hits, as I figure it. The average 9-Force celestial with a Vessel/1 has 24. If you get 4-on-1, with roughly equal weapons, yes, that's pretty close to an even match. But if you do the same with a combat-optimized 9-Forcer, you could be looking at over 100 Body Hits, and someone who does excess damage due to the Check Digit boost for effective skill above 12. That can be *very* powerful. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:04:13 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness >Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:53:07 -0600From: David >Edelstein >Subject: IN> Selflessness vs. Selfishness > >This is probably why we don't see too many selfless > >angels actually being written (officially or > >unofficially); it's hard for us humans to wrap > >our minds around the concept that being selfless DOES > >mean giving away all your money, and that wanting to > >keep something for yourself and enjoy the finer > >things in life IS inherently selfish. (Not evil; > >selfish.) > >- -David Wait. But to remove /all/ self interest and yet maintain a concept of self is a selfish act. To place oneself apart from all the rest of creation as a being which does nothing for itself places a certain degree of focus on the self, as one must therefore always consider the self in one's actions. To be "wholly selfless" is oxymoronic so long as one does not give to oneself, because to fail to give to oneself would immediately set oneself as being apart and different from others and therefore special. But to remove the concept of self and one must give to oneself as much as one is giving to others, as one's body and intellect and emotions have become merely another of the many who are needy. I agree that wanting to enjoy the finer things in life is selfish, but not wanting all beings to have the opportunity to enjoy the finer things in life, including yourself. Therefore selfishness does NOT meaning giving away all of your money nor taking any action to care for one's body, for to do so would mean that someone is suffering while you have the power to help end that suffering. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:46:03 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) >No, the question is "How far would they get, and who would they ally with?" Hmmmmm well let's paint alittle picture here Dalek 1: THE-HUMANS-HAVE-BEAT-US-AGAIN. WHAT-CAN-WE-DO-TO-STOP-THEM-FOR-EV-ER? Dalek 2: GO-TO-THEIR-AFTER-LIFE-USING-INTER-DIMENS-ION-AL-TECH-NOL-OL-GY. Dalek 1: THEN-TAKE-IT-OVER. YE-S. HA-HA-HA Dalek 2: HA-HA. YE-S. TAKE-IT-OVER. *** The Dalek army burst through the great ring of Hell with their vessels not soon after arriving inside the dimensional gateway and the Archangels of Final Judgement decided to remain uninvolved as the creatures began blasting through the damned and over Hades. The attack takes Asmodeus completely by surprise as his realm is mowed down with 60% of his earthly servitors and 30% of the Game's souls forcestripped bare by the time he realized what the Hell was going on and by that time they already have transponders sucking up energy inside Hades, removing his power from it. The Daleks being not very pleasant or smart beings immediately set their sights on Gehenna, Shal Mari, Purdination, and Stygia for conquest. Unfortunately the invasion did not go as smoothly as the Irradiated ones had planned with the demons of Kobal quickly deducing just how easy it was to get these guys tipped over. Half of Gehenna is currently in the Dalek's hands as they continue to plaster Baal's forces in any direct fights that they try to destroy the Dalek's in and the stupid sentiments of honor really holding alot of Baal's forces back (or at least the realization that cheap looking robots are kicking their arse). The Daleks routinely send in squads to Shal Mari and Purdination to massacre everything in sight but thus far the efforts have yielded no ground and the Daleks entering Stygia (Valefor's side) just dissapear. In the meantime the Daleks are contenting themselves by continuing to burn down eveyrthing in Asmodeus's kingdom and start trading technology with Vapula whom they find a wonderful wonderful ally. Malphas has also made inroads by promising them great power if they kill this, this, this, and this. Baal may if he can swallow his pride (unlikely) find them great allies while Haagenti keeps trying to use them to season his food. Belial is oddly holding bizzare talks with the Daleks about the nature of radiation poisoning and is finding he REALLY likes these guys....thus they declared themselves the masters of his domain without much fuss as he lets them run free and taunt the inferiors burning in flames as they study them. Needless to say Heaven is laughing it's arse off. - -Charlemagne Help Sudanese refugees by making a donation to the "Bridge of Hope" fund 1800-424-8644 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1943 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.