From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Nov 29 01:44:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09535 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:44:20 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA18514 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:45:16 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:45:16 -0600 Message-Id: <200011290745.BAA18514@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1947 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1947 In this digest: IN> Whose Who in Heaven and Hell (Whomur) RE : IN> Montreal Info Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Re: IN> Cellphones IN> ...But I digress Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Re: IN> Superiors 5 Re: IN> Cellphones Re: IN> A Question about Hell's Hierarchy Re: IN> LIL: The Consolidation of the Queen's Power (or, the first Seven Major Princes) IN> Ranks and Formations in The War Re: IN> Need a Kronos Tether IN> Re: kronos tether Re: IN> LIL: The Consolidation of the Queen's Power (or, the first Seven Major Princes) RE IN> LIL Seed Re: RE IN> LIL Seed Re: IN> LIL: Re: IN> LIL: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game IN> Lil' the queen o' hell... Re: RE IN> LIL Seed Re: RE IN> LIL Seed Re: IN> LIL: The leftovers IN> Falling Elohim, Wear Hard Hat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:37:51 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Whose Who in Heaven and Hell (Whomur) This is bizzare but bear with me. Heaven is a place where all souls can freely interact and you can find perculiarly every sort of being in Heaven from a Galifreyan to those loveable Thals. Given the majority of good races in the universe are very cute and pacifistic, Novalis's gardens are very beutifully full of them. Michael just keeps testily tapping his fingertips waiting for a warlike race whose good to emerge who DOESN'T need saving by time-hopping renegade Galifreyans. However In Hell the practice has never really caught on because Lucifer loves isolationism, distrust, and keeping the left hand from knowing what the right hand is doing. Thus the Chinese have it right with their many many many many many many hells, they'res actually thousands upon thousands of Hells that exist with palaces for each of the Princes existing on them devoted to one race in particular. A number of Princes exist actually ruling over these worlds without ever touching the Earthly Hell...which is of course the center of everything. The Daleks hell for instance is a universally fearsome and horrofic place that is divided evenly among Belial, Baal, Saminga, and Vapula with almost no trace of any other princes (Though Andre's lust for power and Haagenti's gluttony for pain have some place in them and Kobal has a tiny realm devoted to sadistic humor in Baal's arenas). With the destruction of the Dalek Homeworld, the Principality is in a bit of an upheaval as Davros is believed to have been awarded a word by Lucifer and leading an open revolt to takeover the Davek hell and begin.... well the words EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE come to mind against all other types of damned spirits, they're really a rather one track minded people. Quite interesting and many Damned would be very interested in finding out the living they might be able to forge in realms where their type of evil is completely unknown. - -charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:17:49 -0500 From: "Eric Beauchemin (Steve)" Subject: RE : IN> Montreal Info >Planning on Running an IN game set in Montreal, and would like some info, on the city esp. >which Superiors would be active there, and potential Tethers (Only thing I can think of >Malphas being active in the Parti Quebecois, and that alone makes me more knowledgeable >than most Americans about Canada). I know anything in " You Are Here " will have to be >sent through personal E-mail but some input form any locals would be nice. Hi, I am from Montreal and here come a list of potentials tethers for the city : Angelic Tether : Laurence : "Oratoire St-Joseph". It's a big cathedral on the side of Royal-Mount Novalis : "Jardin Botanique". A really big garden, neighbor of the Olympic Stadium Jordi : "Biodome". A little zoo in a building. The building is separate in 4 sections each one of them represent a different ecosystem (From tropical to antartic) Interesting thing, it's also a neighbor of the olympic stadium. (In my game these 2 tethers work very hard together) Dominic : Big surprise, i put his tether in the "Palais de Justice" :) Demonic Tether Belial : At the east of the city their is a lot of gaz refinery. Furfur : "Foufoune Electrique" it's an underground bar. (A really good one !! ) Kobal : If you want you can put one in the olympic stadium. So many problem to build, the roof's saga, etc... finally the Big 'O' is a real bad joke. 25 years after and the goverment have not finish paying it. Malphas : It's a good idea to put a servitor of Malphas in the Parti Quebecois. You surely can find some informations on the internet about these places. It's a short list of tether, if you search one in particular tell me i'm gonna help you to find one. Sorry for the french words in tethers name but this is their name. :-) Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:39:18 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game From: "Graveyard Greg" > > What if Asmodeus discovered the truth about his universe? That he is in a GAME? > > Would he become even more powerful? As soon as he found a way to affect the minds of the people writing In Nomine books, he would begin a slow spiral toward total power. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:08:10 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> The Daleks and Hell *Who-mur* (was Dr. Who) On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:53:25 -0000 "I. Inayat" writes: > Oh dear God... Now I've just flashed on the Dalek Invasion of > *Heaven*. > > And two images pop up. > [...] Not to mention that Blandine's Tower becomes an unassailable fortress to the Dalek because, well, it's got a lot of stairs. Daleks hate 'em. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:22:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > Why is "Enemy Of The State" running inexorably through my mind? > Especially since the National Security Agency mainframes are a tether > of either Vapula or Jean, depending on who you ask? Naaaah... the NSA headquarters (including the mainframe) is a Tether to the War. Or maybe the Game. Either way, it's probably not a divine Tether. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:26:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Demons you tend to underestimate II - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Here we go again..... > > George > Gremlin of the Game Now this is just _wrong_ with a capital "wr!" I believe you take the cool points for the day, Charles. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:36:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game - --- Graveyard Greg wrote: > What if Asmodeus discovered the truth about his universe? That he is > in a GAME? > > Would he become even more powerful? Less? Opinions, because I might > just be > visiting the In Nomine universe....Heaven help us all! Oh, Azzie would get a big boost out of that discovery. Just think, the entire universe in which he lives would be an expression of his Word! Come to think of it, that might just make Asmodeus God... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Snore and you sleep alone." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:42 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones Santiago wrote: > This sort of stuff is standard issue in the campaigns I've > been in. From the player's point of view, you can just call an > ordinary phone number to reach a bank of operators staffed by your > Superior. Well, in our London-based campaign, many Tethers have 'phone numbers, some of them have several. Usually there's someone at the Tether who can make reasonable decisions, although most of my experience is with tethers of Lawrence and Yves, rather than, say, Janus. Direct calls upwards - well, you can e-mail Jean, since e-mail is easy to have scanned for keywords, emphasis and so on. I think he has adequate spam filtering... > Of course, you shouldn't mention anything too important over a cell > phone, though using a scrambled hard line is generally okay. Digital mobiles are hard to tap, since they're already encrypted. Our Malakite of Jean had a go at the ones our PCs use, and now they're /really/ hard to tap. But you work with slang, and by reference to the known situation anyway; it's pretty easy to make up pseudonyms as you go along. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:56:43 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> ...But I digress As much as I was enjoying the Urban Legends thread (not to mention all those compliments O8>), this idea grabbed me by the throat last night and wouldn't let go until I promised to write it down. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed finally being allowed to go to bed. In Nomine Psionics A rare few Humans are gifted with strange powers. Some can read or project thoughts, others can move objects just by thinking about it, and still others can see the future or the past. All such abilities -- and the people who have them -- are collectively known as Psionics. Psionics believe that their powers are an unusual property of their own minds or the fruit of intense mental discipline. Celestials know the truth; Psionics are people who have extra Forces and the innate ability to play certain Songs. Celestial opinions regarding Psionics are quite different than the general feeling toward Sorcerers. Psionic talents aren't nearly as damning as sorcerous skills, but neither is the practice readily embraced by Heaven. Developing one's inherent potential is far more palatable to angels than bending the Symphony to one's will. On the other hand, mental discipline requires long hours of practice and meditation. For this reason, the mindsets of Psionics and Sorcerers tend to be similar. Most Psionics are unaware of the War, but many of those who are aware choose to serve Hell. Psionics in the service of Heaven are few -- not surprising in light of how many are Children of the Grigori. The majority of Psionics who are involved in the War fight on the side of the Ethereals. It is even rumored that many Psionics are Ethereal Crossbreeds, but no one has been able to prove this yet. Heaven's official policy on Psionics (other than those who are known to be Hellsworn) is to treat them as misguided rather than hostile. Hell, not surprisingly, sees them as a resource to be ruthlessly exploited. Indeed, many demons greatly value Servitors whose special powers can be developed without a Prince's help or knowledge. Psionics are subdivided into Talents. A Talent is bought as an Attunement for 10 Character Points. Each Talent allows the possessor to learn and play any Song that is included therein -- this includes Ethereal and Celestial Songs! Even more disturbing than this is a Psionic's ability to learn all of the Songs within his Talent without any sort of instruction. Psionics have an instinctive grasp of what their Talents can do and can expand on those abilities simply by practicing. The downside is that Psionics are not as versatile as Sorcery. A Psionic cannot learn any Songs outside of his Talent even if he has a teacher (though some have multiple Talents), and they are equally unable to teach Songs. Psionic Talent does not preclude having other Attunements, but Archangels and Demon Princes hardly ever reward a mentalist in this fashion. Pagan Gods are known to be more generous. Like Crossbreeds, Psionics become Symphonically Aware and able to control their Essence expenditure at or around the onset of puberty. All Psionics must be Human, though not necessarily mortal; Undead Psionics are very rare, but they exist. A Psionic must have at least 6 total Forces with at least 2 Ethereal Forces. If a Psionic ever drops below either of these thresholds as a result of Celestial combat, all Psionic Talents become inactive until the lost Forces are restored. The maximum number of Talents is equal to the character's Ethereal Forces minus 1. No new Talents may be learned after character creation. The Talents listed below are the most common Psionic abilities. The GM is free to create others. Astral Projection * Direction (Ethereal) * Disjunction (Ethereal; must have all other projective Songs at level 6) * Possession * Projection (all) * Shields (Ethereal) * Spirit Speech (Corporeal, Celestial) Biokinesis * Charm (Corporeal) * Healing (Corporeal, Ethereal) * Sensation (Corporeal, Ethereal) * Silence (Ethereal) * Sleep (Ethereal) * Solace (Corporeal, Ethereal) * Succor (Ethereal) Clairvoyance * Affinity (all) * Memory (all) * Sight (all) * Truth (Corporeal) Electrokinesis * Light (Corporeal; manifests as ball lightning) * Lightning (all; an electrokinetic may fire the Celestial Song from any point on his own body or from a nearby current source instead of from the sky.) * Shields (Corporeal; this looks like a crackling electrical field instead of the usual whirling winds.) * Sight (Corporeal; this is the ability to sense electromagnetic fields. While this Song is active, the Psionic can make a Perception roll to discern the direction of magnetic North.) * Thunder Empathy * Attraction (Ethereal) * Charm (Celestial) * Empathy (Corporeal, Ethereal) * Fire (Ethereal) * Harmony (Ethereal) * Nightmares (Corporeal, Ethereal) * Opening (Ethereal) * Revulsion (Ethereal) Precognition * Direction (Celestial) * Nemisis (all) * Opening (Celestial) * Symphony (Ethereal; must have all other precognitive Songs at level 6. Precogs may only use this Song to inquire about the future.) * Truth (Ethereal) Pyrokinesis * Darkness (Corporeal; manifests as thick smoke.) * Fire (Corporeal) * Light (Corporeal, Celestial; the Corporeal Song manifests as a fireball that gives off more light than heat while the Celestial version appears as a stream of fire.) * Motion (Corporeal; manifests as jets of fire that propel the character.) * Numinous Corpus (Flame) * Sight (Corporeal; infrared vision) Telekinesis * Attraction (Corporeal) * Might (Corporeal) * Motion (Corporeal, Ethereal) * Opening (Corporeal) * Revulsion (Corporeal) * Shields (Corporeal) * Thunder Telemechanics (a.k.a. Cyberkinesis) * Artifacts (all; may only be used for psionic enchanting) * Lightning (Ethereal) * Machines (all) Telepathy * Calling (Corporeal) * Charm (Ethereal) * Entropy (Ethereal) * Forbidding (Ethereal) * Ice (Ethereal) * Seals (Ethereal) * Tongues (Ethereal) * Truth (Ethereal) * Unity (Ethereal) Teleportation * Attraction (Celestial) * Correspondence (Corporeal; must have all other teleportive Songs at level 6. Psionics may only use this Song to facilitate movement.) * Direction (all) * Location (Corporeal) * Motion (Celestial) Any Psionic with the Enchanting skill may create Artifacts of "psionic technology" that incorporate any of his Songs, Skills or Talents. A mentalist who has both Enchanting and Gemcutting is able to make a special Artifact called a Focusing Crystal. The crystal may act as a normal Reliquary or as a Talisman which gives the user a bonus to the TN of Psionics rolls. The maximum bonus allowed is equal to half the crystal's level as an Artifact (round down). Any given crystal may be a Reliquary, a Talisman or both, but no other powers may be put into it. A Psionic may have several Focusing Crystals but may only carry one at a time; multiple crystals in close proximity interfere with each other and will not function. The normal rules for enchanting apply both to Focusing Crystals and to mindtech. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:22:27 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game >From: "Graveyard Greg" >> >> What if Asmodeus discovered the truth about his universe? That he is in a >GAME? >> >> Would he become even more powerful? > >As soon as he found a way to affect the minds of the people writing In >Nomine books, he would begin a slow spiral toward total power. ;;;) He'd immediately start attempting to determine the rules, IMHO. In D&D (Planescape), there is a sect called the Mathematicians. They have noticed things about the Universe, like "No matter how good the swordsman, and how lousy his opponent, the swordsman will never make a significant strike more than 95% of the time," "Strength and other atributes seem to grow in integer amounts," and other such Truths. (In D&D, 20 on d20 is a critical failure regardless.) They believe that they can achieve total power by learning all the little things which seem a tad inconsistent with probability or physical law. And then, basically, rules-lawyering. Enter the Prince of the Game. Azzie would probably first collect every known RPG and study them. Next, he'd look for matches in probabilities to various events. A bit of Vaputech that, e.g., detects Divine Interventions might do for a start. I'm going to go on G:IN for the moment because I feel it has the most consistent rules. He'd notice that under laboratory circumstances, Divine Interventions happen 1 of every 216 times, and in the field where battles are occurring, there seems to be a specialised class of Servitor, with just a bit more luck, or more noticeable abilities, or just... *something* extra. Now, he'd be pretty sure to assume that he's in the canon universe, and the writers are *not* going to mention that he knows he's in a RPG. So he'll have to act subtly. He'll probably do two main things: First, identify the specialised class of Servitors, i.e., the PCs. Deal with them differently than other beings - how much influence is the GM letting them have on the world? In whose game is he residing, particularly? Maybe he's residing in the static Canon, which means that there are no PCs, and everything happens according to The Rules. On the other hand, if he's residing in The Revelations Cycle, you could see the PCs having a major effect on the game world. Second, recalculate his strategies to take into acount the known and predictable risks. The Gamester will be an ace at this, and he can hide it under his personal plans, which the game-writers will doubtless refuse to reveal to the general public and hence cannot be considered Canon. Third, identify areas of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty. Once he knows that some question is not going to be answered during the campaign, or in Canon at all, he can swiftly quit trying to penetrate those areas and move on to more productive things. Fourth, notice if there begins to be a significant lack of PCs, or a major change in the game world. Either of these will denote a departure from Canon, and his only constraints now are the aforementioned laws of probability, i.e., the Rules. Finally, he might just be a tad worried. Humans being what they are, they'd probably write a game where it seems logical that the angels will win eventually. If he can identify what kind of a campaign he's in, he'll have some substantial foreknowledge of the future. To be specific, is the campaign backwards, and is it bright or dark? If it's a non-backwards bright campaign, he'd probably seriously consider switching sides toot sweet. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:53:45 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 5 At 2:00 PM -0600 11/28/00, Bradley Paranial wrote: >When will it be out, how will be in it? Been away for awhile just curious. It'll be scheduled by other hands than mine, so don't ask me. As to who would be in it... Initially, the notion was Janus, Jean, Marc, Litheroy, and Zadkiel (Pillars & Wildcards). I am also entertaining the notion of Eli, Novalis, Jordi, and Christopher (Peace & Nature). (Originally scheduled in my little head, not anywhere official, as Superiors 7.) No, drowning me with requests for one over the other will not help. The scheduling is completely out of my hands. When the call comes down for S5 to be worked on, the choice will depend, somewhat, on which authors are doing what, and who I want them doing, and stuff like that. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:48:39 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Cellphones At 3:22 PM -0800 11/28/00, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Charles Glasgow wrote: >> Why is "Enemy Of The State" running inexorably through my mind? >> Especially since the National Security Agency mainframes are a tether >> of either Vapula or Jean, depending on who you ask? > > Naaaah... the NSA headquarters (including the mainframe) is a Tether >to the War. Or maybe the Game. Either way, it's probably not a >divine Tether. In Canon, if I recall correctly, the NSA headquarters is a Tether to Jean out of deference to the sheer computing power involved. I'd have to check the Liber Castellorum to be sure. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:34:55 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> A Question about Hell's Hierarchy When addressing a Prince, if one is not a Prince oneself, the Miss Manners' Guide to Hell strongly suggests starting with at _least_, "Dread Lord" or "Fearsome Prince." Adding further adjectives is highly reccomended. O:> <<< Thank you. :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:37:44 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> LIL: The Consolidation of the Queen's Power (or, the first Seven Major Princes) One question Eric. Are you planning a campaign around these excellent ideas? :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:23:26 +1100 From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Ranks and Formations in The War Hi everyone, On my website, I've posted up how Baal organises demons of The War in my campaign. It includes ranks, and sizes of formations (eg squads, platoons, brigades etc). It's a bit dry, but may be useful if you have PCs of The War. Also good if you don't know whether a major general outranks a general or vice versa, etc. I have based it on the Australian/British ranks, however. You Yankees like having British bad guys anyway, no? :-P Check out http://www.zipworld.com.au/~surturz/TheWar.htm Cheers, SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:38:10 +1100 From: "David Streeter" Subject: Re: IN> Need a Kronos Tether I had cause to create a Kronos Tether recently. I made it a Centrelink office. Centrelink is an Australian Government organisation that is supposed to help the unemployed find work, but is also where people apply for the dole (unemployment benefits). Lots of people achieving their fate there (in-game, anyway). I made the locus a library room full of self-help books. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:11:05 -0500 From: Mary Subject: IN> Re: kronos tether As a member of the Museum of Natural History, I would like to propose that its either a Tether for Destiny or Creation. The Rose Center is wonderful, very creative and visually stimulating..and they have jazz every week or so. Please send arguments to the contrary to private email. Mary "Eat hot flaming plasmic pulse cannon death, you saucer-alien human-abducting alien bastards!" -- Captain Ano Itai, EAS Dauntless ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:28:40 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> LIL: The Consolidation of the Queen's Power (or, the first Seven Major Princes) At 4:37 PM -0800 11/28/00, Charles E Smith wrote: >One question Eric. Are you planning a campaign around these excellent >ideas? :) The idea is "net.book." Each section will have campaign seeds, writeups, and stuff people can use if they want. If it all works out, that is. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:14:35 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: RE IN> LIL Seed Nice Campaign setting, only I find one little flaw in Lillith's plan to take over Hell... All the Luceferian Princes she's pissed off are the ones who don't give a damn about Humanity. ...And they probably wouldn't care how many humans they had to sacrifice to get rid of her. So what would Baal's plan to rid themselves of Lillith? A pretty deseperate and suicidal plan, and most likely one that would kill them along with all of Hell. ...But I'm sure Baal, Belial, Kobal, Haagenti and Saminga, would prefer going out with a bang then with a whimper. So the Luceferian Princes take all their servitors, abandon Hell to go to Earth... ...And proceed to start Armageddon, ahead of Schedual, and before Lillith can consolidate her power. "We may not win this War... But I'd rather be killed by Michael then decomissioned by HER!" And, just in case you need a little more Spice, let's say the "Ancient Evil Reawakened", was not a Demon Prince, but someone no-one expected to come back? ...Someone who might ask Lillith to get off his Throne... Just an idea... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:52:35 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: RE IN> LIL Seed At 10:14 PM -0500 11/28/00, Rolland Therrien wrote: >Nice Campaign setting, only I find one little flaw in Lillith's plan to take >over Hell... > >All the Luceferian Princes she's pissed off are the ones who don't give a >damn about Humanity. ...And they probably wouldn't care how many humans >they had to sacrifice to get rid of her. I think that'd be true, if the Princes weren't having their Words die inside them. As it is, their thoughts are divided. Besides, there's nothing that says Lilith and her Princes won't just sit in Hell and watch as the Host comes down and makes mincemeat out of the Luciferians. What's more, calling a massive assault out of Hell -- which would take tons of essence they may not have to spare -- would only work if large numbers of those demons didn't flock to Lilith's banner instead. Remember, the Host is in strength on Earth and Hell *isn't,* and the Princes had already committed their Earth forces to Word promotion before Lilith took the throne. Baal may not like what's happening, but certain suicide versus a war that may one day be won isn't really his style. The War has not ended - -- it has just begun. >...And proceed to start Armageddon, ahead of Schedual, and before Lillith >can consolidate her power. > >"We may not win this War... But I'd rather be killed by Michael then >decomissioned by HER!" OTOH, I *can* see Baal doing this. Besides, right now Baal would win against Michael. Lucifer did not go gently into that good night. More on that in the Heaven update, which is next on the docket. (And a bit on Armageddon, too, actually.) >And, just in case you need a little more Spice, let's say the "Ancient Evil >Reawakened", was not a Demon Prince, but someone no-one expected to come >back? > >...Someone who might ask Lillith to get off his Throne... While it's pretty certain Lucifer is dead (or a Remnant, which is much the same thing), you have to assume half the Horde is just *waiting* for his return. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> LIL: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:05:46 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> LIL: Hell Mechanics and Adventure Seeds (for the Consolidation of the Queen's Power) Wow. It's like watching a snowball turn into an avalanche. _Cooooooooool_. :) Moe PS Can't Heaven have just _one_ of the doomed Princes (or even a Named Really Big NPC) revamp his/her whole way of thinking and go Upstairs? _Please_? It doesn't have to be a _big_ Prince... ;) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:36:05 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> LIL: At 8:03 PM -0800 11/28/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Wow. > >It's like watching a snowball turn into an avalanche. > >_Cooooooooool_. Thanks. >PS Can't Heaven have just _one_ of the doomed Princes >(or even a Named Really Big NPC) revamp his/her whole >way of thinking and go Upstairs? > >_Please_? It doesn't have to be a _big_ Prince... A prince might revamp his thinking, but isn't likely to make it upstairs, no. *Several* Named Really Big NPCs do, however. Though only the truly contrite (as opposed to scared of souldeath) ones can survive Redemption. Same as it ever was. So how's that? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:37:52 -0600 From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game At 03:36 PM 11/28/00 -0800, you wrote: >--- Graveyard Greg wrote: > > What if Asmodeus discovered the truth about his universe? That he is > > in a GAME? > > > > Would he become even more powerful? Less? Opinions, because I might > > just be > > visiting the In Nomine universe....Heaven help us all! > > Oh, Azzie would get a big boost out of that discovery. Just think, >the entire universe in which he lives would be an expression of his >Word! Come to think of it, that might just make Asmodeus God... Hee hee hee....Walton thinks like me. I'll let you guys know when In Nomine gets into the next storyline of Gaming Guardians, folks. It'll be a doozy Graveyard Greg Writer of Gaming Guardians--the comic! http://gamingguardians.keenspace.com _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:28:47 -0600 From: "Robert Behrman" Subject: IN> Lil' the queen o' hell... Although I can run with it as kind of creative fiat, why would Words decay when Lucifer dies? This is a part of the scenario description that contrasts with my current understanding of how Words work. I understand words as kind of an immortal concept of the symphony, embodied in a celestial; if another celestial dies the word should be unaffected. Now, Lucifer isn't merely a celestial, but if Hell itself exists independent of Lucifer (and I think that it MUST) then the Words of Hell must exist independent of Lucifer. Just because Lucifer had the power to grant and remove them doesn't mean that they exist by virtue of him. (I think of them as bits of land that lucifer has power over, not things that lucifer cooks up and hands you) Now either Lilith could've ganked lucifer's 'prince of hell hat' and can now grant and strip words (thus implying that power over words comes ex officio to the ruler of hell, which seems the most logical), or she still has to figure out how to screw up words. I'm going to make the (somewhat inappropriate, but bear with me) analogy to Uriel or Raphael - as I understand it, their word bound kept their words after their superiors left the scene; Lucifer's word bound should keep the same. By this logic, Lilith could either have stripped the recalcitrant of their words the instant she moved on up, or she still has a lot of fighting to face (and Malphas will be so much stronger it hurts, since his Word probably likes what's going on). Later: Robert Behrman P.S.: I joined the list 3 days ago, and this is my first post, so if people resolved this conflict before I got near it please tell me. P.P.S.: The only people I could imagine being fundamental to the existence of Heaven or Hell are Kronos and Yves. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:35:31 +1100 From: "Azrael/Demigouge" Subject: Re: RE IN> LIL Seed [...] > >...And proceed to start Armageddon, ahead of Schedual, and before Lillith > >can consolidate her power. > > > >"We may not win this War... But I'd rather be killed by Michael then > >decomissioned by HER!" > > OTOH, I *can* see Baal doing this. That is if his bizarrely twisted Balseraph nature can allow him to contemplate his own defeat. [...] > >And, just in case you need a little more Spice, let's say the "Ancient Evil > >Reawakened", was not a Demon Prince, but someone no-one expected to come > >back? > > > >...Someone who might ask Lillith to get off his Throne... > > While it's pretty certain Lucifer is dead (or a Remnant, which is > much the same thing), you have to assume half the Horde is just > *waiting* for his return. He is the Messiah, He is the Messiah, the Second Coming and so forth...only not. Actually an infernal..."Christianity"... could be kinda fun. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:16:02 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: RE IN> LIL Seed How about Nybbas? He doesn't hate mankind, he thinks they're boffo, baby! And Kobal loves humanity too, after all, they are the ultimate punchline to the ultimate joke. I would think these princes would defect to Lilith. After all, MacBeth type overthrows of tyrants always sell big, and the first of all the demons being replaced by someone who isn't even a real demon would strike Kobal as quite funny. And due to her subteler take on the war, I think Lilith would welcome the two who are probably the most subtle of all the demon princes. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Whistling in the Dark To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 7:52 PM Subject: Re: RE IN> LIL Seed > At 10:14 PM -0500 11/28/00, Rolland Therrien wrote: > >Nice Campaign setting, only I find one little flaw in Lillith's plan to take > >over Hell... > > > >All the Luceferian Princes she's pissed off are the ones who don't give a > >damn about Humanity. ...And they probably wouldn't care how many humans > >they had to sacrifice to get rid of her. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 00:20:00 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> LIL: The leftovers I'm surprised Lilith hasn't picked up Nybbas yet. He'd seem a prime catch for her strategy, with Malphas and Kobal doing some nice rounding out. Then again, if I was the *Seraph*Council*, I'd go and grant Malphas his old word, just to see what would happen and stir up more trouble down below... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 01:42:07 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: IN> Falling Elohim, Wear Hard Hat DISCLAIMER: I know the the Situation in Israel/Palestine is a complicated one and that good pepole can have verying opnions on it. I am also aware of the possiablty that there might be some Jews on this lists, this post is IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM MEANT TO OFFEND ANYONE, peace can only be reached in the Holy Land when all sides agree to work together, and live in justice. I love and admire the Jewish Pepole and their heritage and Culture, and I apolgize in advance if this offends anyone. Premission to post on other sighs where you Will: Horanan, Demon of Zionism, Habbalite Baron of Factions: Coporeal Forces- 4 Strength-6 Agility-6 Etheral Forces-5 Intelligence-11 Precision-9 Celsetial Forces-6 Will-12 Preception-12 Word Forces-7-10 Vessal: Human Male/2 (Charisma +3) Role: Rabbi Ariel Ben Yosef/6 (Status/4) Servant: David Berkman Clueless Mortal/5 Skills: Dodge/4 Emote/5 Fast Talk/4 Fighting/4 Knowlege (Jewish History/3 Talmud/4 Hebrew Bible/4) Area Knowlege (Palestine/3) Lying/5 Ranged Weapon/3 Songs: Charm (Celestial)/3 Light(Ethereal)/2 Tounges (Ethereal)/3 Attunements: Habbalite of Factions, Habbalite of the War, Habbalite of Nightmares, Balseraph of Faction, Baron of the Inner Torment, Demon of Zionism. Special Rite: Make a Speach at a gathering of more than 500 pepole procaliming the exclusive right of the Jewish Pepole to Palestine. Horanan was once Horiel, Elohite of War, one of many Angels the Michael had assigned to protect the Jewish pepole from those how would persecute them. Some of which were infernaly inspired others were not. He carried out his duties bravly and boldly fighting off Pogroms in Russia, and mobs in Prauge. He saw the Jewish pepole endur much and devloped a great admireation for them. At the same time he never lost his objectivity never forgot that mortals that tormented them didn't know what they did, it was merely the culture that the lived in that made them for hateful of the Sons of Abraham. That they had goodness in them and that God had plans for them to. That was however before the man known as Hitler came to power. At first it was nothing that Horiel hadn't seen before, the looting and Vandalism of Jwewish Shops, the Laws stripping them of there citizenship. Forcing them into ghettos nothing that he couldn't handle. In the Early years he was a bane to the existence of many of the Demons of Warsaw. (Where his current assignment had him). Then the Germans began Relocating the Jews from the Warsaw Ghettos, to a place called Auschwitz. Then came the rumors, of the Gas Chambers and the Ovens. That they made Soap from their Fat, and Blankets from their Hair. He didn't even want to think about the medical experments. He would often repot this Michael and be filled with horror as the Archangel of War simply said "What you have told me is True" "What does the Host plan to do" Horiel would often ask "Nothing" Micheal would helplessly reply "Yves has said that we can do nothing to Help the sons Jacob. And the Sarim, for the most part, trust in his wisdom" He would say in a low voice indiacting that *HE* damn well didn't. "How could they do all this to these pepole" Horiel would wander to himself trying to think of answer. "Are they not children of the God they TO worship, Were not the founders of Chirstianity Jews, was not Jesus a Jew, these pepole would not know God if it weren't for them, how could these Dammed Nazi Bastards to this, how could a culture that produced such great minds produce this MONSTER Hitler and follow HIM, this EVIL MAN, how could they. I know how THE NAZI SCUM ARE ALL EVIL PIGS, DEATH TO ALL GERMAN SCUM WHO BRING MISERY ON THE CHILDEREN OF ISRAEL" As was expected Horiel became severely dissonant rather quickly, and right before the Germans surrendered, he was Cast Out of Heaven. Shortly after he had been Outcast. There was a mass migration of Jewish Pepole from Europe to Palestine. He quickly joined them and helped them build new lives for themselves. He earned the Freindship of a few local Angels, and begen working of his Dissonance at a Tether. For a while it seemed that Horiel would be welcomed back to heaven. David was looking foward to taking him on. But than something else happened. In establishing settlements, the Jews often force the native Arabs off their own land, Horiel saw this and thought while unfourtunate, it was understandable considering what they had been though. They also understandably began to fight back. Before the Shoah, Horiel might have been able to understand. But despite having worked off much of his dissonance he was still scared. HIS pepole had suffered greatly in Europe, SIX MILLION of them died. Now that they have returned to their own HOMELAND they STILL are not allowed peace. All they ever wanted was to left alone, HOW MUCH had he seen them suffer over the Centuries. They were the CHOSEN PEPOLE OF GOD. Everyone else HATED THEM and spread LIES about them killing childeren, defiling hosts and poisining wells. THIS IS THERE HOMELAND, the God PROMISED FOR THEM FOR ALL TIME, and now that they have finally COME HOME after TWO THOUSAND YEARS of hardship, these Arabs these SQUATTERS won't let them rest, this is what God PROMISED, DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND GOD'S WILL. And Horiel Fell. Horiel was no more. Hornanan was all there was. Hornanan quickly attracted the Attention of Malpahas and saw the potential this new Habbalite had, especially scince he still saw himself as a protector of the Jewish Pepole against those who could not muster the Faith to suffer what God's Chosen had suffered to help fufill His plan. He helped Establish Settlemnts thoughout Palestine Intentioanlly planning them where a Palestinan village was and requiring that it be vacated. He traveled to America to gather support for Israel from Jews living there, and encouraged more than a few to come to Israel with him, Further Displacing more Arabs and making Israel more Jewish, just as God Planned. He rose through Malphas' ranks quickly, and got the Word of Zionism just as qucikly. Currently, Hornanan is now working in his Current Role as Rabbi Ariel Yosef, an Ultra Orthodox Rabbi, Working for (amongst other things) the Building of the Third Temple, with as much of the Dome on the Rock and Al-Asqa Mosque destroyed as possible (Needless to say Khalid wants his hide). The Expulsion of all Arabs from Jerusalem, and reclaiming of all cites currently held by the Palestian Authority, "So the All of Israel, will be in the hands of God's pepole" That Malphas loves Hornanan goes without saying in less than half a century he has gone from freshly Fallen Elhoite to Favored Word Bound Servitor, no mean feat. He has also for obvious reasons pleased Ba'al (Who loved so much that he gave out his Habbalite Attunment) for encouaging his Word in a most beautiful that only someone with his tempermate can, and Beleth, who rewared him with HER habblatie attunment for crushing the Dreams of som many pepole scince his Fall. (Dreams of living the life of your ancestors, dreams of peace, yeah Blandine wants his head to.) Hornanan's special attunment allows him to locate mortals who are even remotly sympatheitc to the Zionist Cause with in a range of 5 times his Celestial Forces. And lets him add his Celstial Forces to any roles to convince them to do something in the name of the cause even if it is something that they normally would not do. (ie. go into a Mosque with a Uzi and shoot the place up, etc.) Comments, Braldey Paranial Elohite Freind of the Sword _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. 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