From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 4 02:04:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA31620 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 02:04:08 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id CAA16815 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 02:04:15 -0600 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 02:04:15 -0600 Message-Id: <200012040804.CAA16815@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1956 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1956 In this digest: Re: IN> God's Word-bound (Re: Netanya, the Angel of the SelflessGift) Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad Re: IN>Pagan Mummies Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game Re: IN> Hooray For Humans, by someone else Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... Re: IN> Another Hurrah for Humans Re: IN> Another Hurrah for Humans Re: IN> Hurray for Humans, Part 1 Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... Re: IN> Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp... IN> Maladjusted Malakim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 23:36:52 -0500 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> God's Word-bound (Re: Netanya, the Angel of the SelflessGift) On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 19:59 +0000 Kay Dekker writes: > > This I find truly astonishing. After all, Children were about > ever since humans were invented, long before Technology, and, > as they're the means of keeping God's Pet Project going, I've > always thought that there should have been an Angel of Children, > if not an AA, pretty much from the start. Why wasn't there? Well... this isn't canon by a longshot, but given the nature of angels in IN it just wouldn't *occur* to an angel that children would need protection over and above what the parents should provide. It's that whole selfless nonhuman thing. - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 00:16:41 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad On the subject of relationships, I think that it is likely that Michael and David are seeing each other, or at least have had a fling in the past. Of all superiors, I think they are the ones who agree on things the most. Plus, they have very similar words, live right beside each other, and both are the Spartan-type warrior (in this case, perhaps with Michael being the swordman [axeman] and David being the shield-bearer and partner). Being the Catholic he is, I doubt Laurence would approve if he found out. If he did, it probably would be the only friction between Laurence and Michael (and deep down, Lauarence would probably be jealous of David). It might also have something to do with why Dominic so readily charged Michael with heresy. I know that all the archangels know that homosexuals can reach Heaven, but I doubt that Laurence and Dominic still totally approve of it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Manny Nepomuceno To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:54 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad > Interesting. > > I actually like the idea of Yves and Raphael together. It humanizes Yves > for me -- goes beyond the archetypal "wise old mentor" that is harped about > so much in the sourcebooks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 03:43:13 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad At 12:16 AM -0800 12/3/00, Bevan Thomas wrote: > >I know that all the archangels know that homosexuals can reach Heaven, but I >doubt that Laurence and Dominic still totally approve of it. Gender among angels is really somewhat perceptual, not actual. Which is why most of the Superiors series describe the opposite gender vessel preferences of the Superiors. So it's possible Michael and David had a fling with it still being a heterosexual affair on Earth. In Celestial Form, it doesn't much matter. If you're hung up on the common descriptions of gender in IN, though... remember that the very first expression of love in the universe was Blandine and Beleth. Somehow, I don't think homosexuality is a big deal. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 01:42:38 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad Well no. However, David and Michael are usually perceived as men, and so I doubt that Dominic would think that they would be setting a good example for their followers. Beleth and Blandine were before angels really appeared to humans (and before Dominic and Lauarence got into Christianity), so I do not think that Dominic minded as much. On the subject of the vessels.... The Superior Books mention changes in personality for the vessels (for instance, the female Haagenti is more vain and less gluttonous, the male Gabriel is more catlike, etc...), so I get the impressions that they have to reorient their point of view when becoming "feminine" or "masculine." On the subject of vessels, I wonder how Khalid reacts to the ones of Gabriel, Novalis, et al. After all, Khald is (or at least was) a fanatical Muslim, and there is a Muslim saying that the best way to tell a Heretic is if he believes that there are female angels. At the very least, I doubt Khalid is totally comfortable with them taking female vessels. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Whistling in the Dark To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 12:43 AM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad > Gender among angels is really somewhat perceptual, not actual. Which > is why most of the Superiors series describe the opposite gender > vessel preferences of the Superiors. > > So it's possible Michael and David had a fling with it still being a > heterosexual affair on Earth. In Celestial Form, it doesn't much > matter. > > If you're hung up on the common descriptions of gender in IN, > though... remember that the very first expression of love in the > universe was Blandine and Beleth. Somehow, I don't think > homosexuality is a big deal. > -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 07:22:54 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 11:07:46 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before >Seraph: "Are you a Demon" >Habbalah: "No, of course not, I am an Angel >Seraph rolls D666 and gets a 1, 2, 3 or 4 >Seraph: "Yes that is true, you don't believe that >you are lying." >The Habbalah actually believes that he is an Angel >and therefore the Seraph can't break through without >a 5 or 6 on the Check Digit.... that relates to the >Truth. >Am I nuts? No, that looks about right... which is why most Seraphim would instead ask the question, "Based on your _personal_ experience, which Superior is most suffering from the delusion that you work for him/her/it?" Knowing Habbalah, just shutting up (the only really safe way to answer the question) will be a real chore for most of them. I can think of a couple ways to get around that particular question, of course, but it's not that easy to do. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 09:28:26 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:22 AM Subject: Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before [snip] > him/her/it?" Knowing Habbalah, just shutting up (the > only really safe way to answer the question) will be a > real chore for most of them. > > I can think of a couple ways to get around that > particular question, of course, but it's not that easy > to do. :) Well, there's always the option of launching into a screaming tirade on the order of 'GET THE [BLEEP] OUT OF MY FACE, YOU NOSY SPY!' -- perfectly true, and quite in character for a Habbalite. Of course, he'd better not have introduced himself as an Elohite beforehand, or people might start to wonder about his objectivity. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:50:07 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Lilith Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:02:21 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith >I mean, why do you think David is standing in front >of that tent 24 hours a day when there's so much work >that needs being done elsewhere? Because he's >taking a day off? *g* >Heaven *knows* that Hell would just love to zorch >Michael in his bed -- it's the only chance they'll >ever have. (exaggerated comic head shaking) No, no, NO. You've got the wrong idea entirely. If Michael's not safe in the middle of Heaven, surrounded by millions of really pi**ed members of the war faction, he isn't safe anywhere. The _real_ reason why David's parked outside of Mike's hospital tent is very, very simple. Michael can leave any time he wants ... provided that he can get past David. And, knowing the AA of Stone, I don't think that Fast-Talk's going to help on this one...* ;) (/exaggerated comic head shaking) Moe *Novalis is too good a doctor to _not_ incorporate Mike's inability to be a good patient into her treatment. Besides, a little humility's good for the soul (plus lots of nasty fun for onlookers). :) ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:14:57 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad >On the subject of vessels, I wonder how Khalid reacts to the ones of >Gabriel, Novalis, et al. After all, Khald is (or at least was) a fanatical >Muslim, and there is a Muslim saying that the best way to tell a Heretic is >if he believes that there are female angels. At the very least, I doubt >Khalid is totally comfortable with them taking female vessels. Well, Khalid is an Elohite himself, and seems to prefer to skirt the notion of his own Choir's innate androgyny -- take a look at the description of his Celestial appearance for that. He rests quite comfortably in the knowledge that no angel is really either male or female, though, when it comes to the aforementioned test for heretics, and uses pronouns based on his opinions of the angel's personality. For example, he uses the feminine pronouns when referring to Blandine and Novalis, but consistently calls Gabriel "him," at least when it's translated into English. William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:09:41 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN>Pagan Mummies - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > But the fact remains -- do undead have a Destiny, > or have they already embraced their Fate regardless? Just to let the Undead do have destinies, but can't get to Heaven by meeting them. In the CPG, this fact is put forth as proof that Undead who serve Heaven are perhaps the most selfless beings in the War. Try to imagine centuries of service with no eternal reward to look forward to -- their only recompense is the satisfaction of helping others. That's a level of selflessness that few Humans ever achieve. It's hard for me to believe that a person that selfless has no Destiny. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:12:59 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus discovers a greater Game - --- Graveyard Greg wrote: > Still, you guys have given me great ideas, and who knows? Maybe some > of you > peeps can make guest appearances as various celestials. Who'd love to > see the Angel of Archives? ;-) Oooo! Me! Me! Yaaaaaaaaaay! Ahem... I mean, I'd absolutely love to see the Archangel of Archives appear in the comic. It would bring some much-needed decorum to the proceedings. O;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:19:43 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Hooray For Humans, by someone else - --- Robert Behrman wrote: > Anton Simmons: > Mummy, unaligned Yikes! You weren't kidding when you said this character was tragic. This is so depressing that one wonders why this guy bothers to go on at all -- which means you did it right. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:23:25 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... > > Is there, canon or non, a write-up of Santa Claus anywhere? I posted something a couple of months ago about Santa being one of the most powerful Ethereals. The response was that, in canon, Santa Claus is a demon of Greed. I've yet to see a write-up, though. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:28:56 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad That's a good point. You know, I find it interesting that Khalid, one of the more fanatical and militant archangels, seems to get along with a surprisingly a lot of superiors. I don't remember what he said about all of them in his entry, but I remeber that he likes the ones mentioned in the Koran a lot (Michael and Gabriel), as well as Eli! I find his liking for Eli kind of funny, considering that Eli practices a lot of stuff that would certainly not be appropriate for role models of good Muslims. - ----- Original Message ----- From: William J. Keith To: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 2:14 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Yves' pad > Well, Khalid is an Elohite himself, and seems to prefer to skirt the notion > of his own Choir's innate androgyny -- take a look at the description of > his Celestial appearance for that. He rests quite comfortably in the > knowledge that no angel is really either male or female, though, when it > comes to the aforementioned test for heretics, and uses pronouns based on > his opinions of the angel's personality. For example, he uses the feminine > pronouns when referring to Blandine and Novalis, but consistently calls > Gabriel "him," at least when it's translated into English. > > William > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:32:21 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... I find it kinda funny that Superiors 3 says that Santa Claus was a creation of Mammon, especially considering that he started off simply as a benevolent patron saint of children. I would say that Mammon has caused a lot of the commericalization and corruption of Santa, but he was not one of its creators. I think that Christopher and Mammon fight for control of Christmas, each one trying to present it in the light best for them. Also, I do not think that an Ethereal Santa Claus would exist. After all, Santa is derived from Christianity (sort of), and things derived from a "divine faith" (Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc...) do not create Ethereals. (see Game Master's Guide) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Walton To: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... > > I posted something a couple of months ago about Santa being one of > the most powerful Ethereals. The response was that, in canon, Santa > Claus is a demon of Greed. I've yet to see a write-up, though. > > ===== > Michael Walton, #9805-068 > "...faith is only pure when it does not negate > the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:38:56 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Another Hurrah for Humans - --- Tim Groth wrote: > Alexander Bruck > Soldier of Trade This I really like. Alex has earned a place in my campaign. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:44:47 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Another Hurrah for Humans - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > "Jordan Michaels" [1] > Soldier of War, formerly an unwitting Soldier of the Media This is just plain sick. And so appropriate. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Hurray for Humans, Part 1 - --- Azrael/Demigouge wrote: > Yes, The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything = 42 > However, the answer to The Answer to Life, the Universe, and > Everything - 1 = 41 So I missed the -1. Sue me. O:p ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:48:51 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... At 3:23 PM -0800 12/3/00, Michael Walton wrote: > > > Is there, canon or non, a write-up of Santa Claus anywhere? > > I posted something a couple of months ago about Santa being one of >the most powerful Ethereals. The response was that, in canon, Santa >Claus is a demon of Greed. Nuh uh. Not a demon of Greed. However, Mammon claims to have created the modern concept *of* Santa Claus. Subtle difference. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:51:51 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> I Wonder if Anyone has thought of this before - --- Alex Liddell wrote: > That brings up an interesting point. Balseraph's NEVER lie. They > always > tell the truth from their point of view. To be more precise, a Balseraph's lies ARE true -- but only as truth is defined in the demon's personal Symphony. The Balseraph Resonance allows them to extend that personal Symphony to encompass others. That's why they can effect Seraphim. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:43:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> One of the most powerful Ethereals... - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > I posted something a couple of months ago about Santa being one > of the most powerful Ethereals. The response was that, in canon, > Santa Claus is a demon of Greed. > > Nuh uh. Not a demon of Greed. However, Mammon claims to have created > the modern concept *of* Santa Claus. Subtle difference. Ah... that has possibilities... };;;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:13:54 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp, Wahnp Wahnp... At 7:34 PM -0800 11/24/00, Maurice Lane wrote: > whether omnidirectional message transmittal balances out the security issue > is a [judgment] call. :) Speaking of our favorate Poker-Spines: Per S1, the triads use a language of gestures to communicate with one another. Though not quite as on par with the secret language of Windies, it has proven effective. The most common sign used is 'Softly Most Highly', from the Elohite to the Seraph of the triad. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:58:39 -0800 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN> Maladjusted Malakim Hi all! I was talking with Moe tonight about the Malakite Archangel of Steam that he's designing for Jon Oberlin's Steampunk IN campaign. Something occured to me. It seems to me that all the Malakim Archangels have some sort of problem or flaw in dealing with the world. For instance, David. David still clings to the old, brutal ways of bringing people together through force, and he will not adapt to modern weapons and tactics. Don't get me wrong, he's certainly an interesting Archangel. :) I just noticed that little quirk of his. Uriel: The Purification Crusade. What more can I say about him? Laurence: His flaw is his excessive honor, also his greatest strength. He cannot see past his idealism to deal with the War as it is, and thus he is lured into actions that might be costly for Heaven by his well-meaning intentions. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I just wondered if anyone else noticed these little quirks in the Malakite Archangels. :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1956 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.