From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com  Thu Dec  7 13:18:34 2000
Return-Path: <owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com>
Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15])
	by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16961
	for <archiver@pyramid.sjgames.com>; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:18:32 -0600
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
	by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA15014
	for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:16:17 -0600
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:16:17 -0600
Message-Id: <200012071916.NAA15014@lists.io.com>
From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest)
To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1960
Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com
Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com
Precedence: bulk


in_nomine-digest      Thursday, December 7 2000      Volume 01 : Number 1960



In this digest:

   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   Re: IN> relic question
   IN> IOU Student Loan Dept.
   Re: IN> IOU Student Loan Dept.
   IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 1 of 2
   IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 2 of 2
   Re: IN>Pagan Mummies
   Re: IN> God's Word-bound 
   IN> DC angels
   Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals...
   Re: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 1 of 2
   Re: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 2 of 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:10:51 -0700
From: Tim Groth <Timothy.Groth@colorado.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

Calabim or Habbalah seem to be appropriately drawn to hate.  The 
first especially if the former Superior is Factions.
- -- 


Timothy, Angel of Rambling
Ofanite of Creation
ArchRival of Mathus
If you have time to kill, why not kill it at 
http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:09:14 -0600
From: "Erich S. Arendall" <sprite@insync.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

> What band would you make this guy? Would he be a Prince or a Servitor. Got
> some Idea in my head but I could some input if you be kind enough to give
> it.

Though cliched, I'd probably say Calabite or Shedite.... Though I'm really
temped to say Pachadim, just to see what you do with /that/!

<!-- Erich S. Arendall
<!-- Demon of Infernal Interventions
<!-- Impudite of The Game
<!-- www.impudite.com
<!-- erich@impudite.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:46:38 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

At 4:23 PM -0600 12/6/00, Bradley Paranial wrote:
>What band would you make this guy? 

Not an Impudite. Shedite, Calabite, or Habbalite would be the _obvious_ 
choices, with Balseraph coming up after. Djinn is possible, though it
will cast an interesting "simmer" to the Word. Lilim... I suppose it's
possible, but it kind of bends my brain.

Could be either Prince or Servitor, as the GM desires. O:>  (Hate's a
pretty big word, sort of akin to Wrath, which is one of the deadlies.
Whoever got the Word would probably be on the fast track, _unless_ it
was Djinn, and then it'd be on a slower fast track...)

(Canon? No canon here, move along, move along.)


- --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos.
"She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 17:41:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Maurice Lane <moelane_1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:57:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" <pkitty@brainpuke.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Bradley Paranial wrote:
> What band would you make this guy? Would he be a
Prince or a Servitor. Got 
> some Idea in my head but I could some input if you
be kind enough to give 
> it.

Hmm.  Depends on how old this entity was, I would
think.  An old Demon of Hate would be a fairly
traditional type of Servitor (powerful powerful
powerful, too).  Shedite, maybe Habbalah.  The War
looks good as a Superior, Factions too of course,
Nightmares a good dark horse (you hate what you fear,
after all).

A shiny new Demon of Hate?  Balseraph/Impudite of the
Media, baby.  You can get _millions_ of the talking
monkeys to loathe something or someone for no good
reason, if you just pitch it right: heck, you can even
get them to hate stuff that deserves it, too, just as
long as you make sure they go over the top...

:)

Moe

=====
In Nomine stuff:
http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html

Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:53:03 -0600
From: "Erich S. Arendall" <sprite@insync.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

"Maurice Lane uttered these words:
>...heck, you can even
> get them to hate stuff that deserves it, too, just as
> long as you make sure they go over the top...

Of course if you want to go with a servitor serving a minor prince, you
could take that approach and have the wordbound serve Furfur... but I still
want to see a Pachadim of Hate!

<!-- Erich S. Arendall
<!-- Demon of Infernal Interventions
<!-- www.impudite.com
<!-- Touched by an Impudite
<!-- Version 2. Still charming and still touching.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:00:29 -0600
From: "Prodigal" <prodigal@ticnet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

From: "Erich S. Arendall" <sprite@insync.net>
>
> Of course if you want to go with a servitor serving a minor prince, you
> could take that approach and have the wordbound serve Furfur... but I
still
> want to see a Pachadim of Hate!

Give me time. ;)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:00:29 -0600
From: "Prodigal" <prodigal@ticnet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Demon(Possibly Demon Prince) of Hate

From: "Erich S. Arendall" <sprite@insync.net>
>
> Of course if you want to go with a servitor serving a minor prince, you
> could take that approach and have the wordbound serve Furfur... but I
still
> want to see a Pachadim of Hate!

Give me time. ;)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:38:25 +0800
From: Manny Nepomuceno <darkness@i-manila.com.ph>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

Interesting thread...

> (Note, these are all Kingdom Come versions, not standard versions.
> And this could contain spoilers if folks care.)
> 
> If we define Supervillains as Demons, Superman could be seen as a
> Mercurian -- dedicated against violence save against the horde. Or,
> he could be one big Cherub -- though his humanity (and his denial of
> it) is a huge subtext in the whole series.... Actually, Cherub makes
> the most sense -- when several of his attuned die in the years before
> the series, he turns his back on the World he has sworn to protect,
> obsessively farming instead. Batman, while sardonic as ever, is kind
> of a pure Elohite of Judgement. The Spectre is a Seraph of Judgement,
> with a human Servant. The Flash is obviously an Ofanite -- probably
> of Lightning. Power Girl is presented as a Malakite of War. Green
> Lantern is presented as... hm... he's a Servitor of the Sword, but
> what flavor is hard to tell. Red Robin and Wonder Girl are both
> Mercurians of War. Lex Luthor is a Balseraph of the Game, and sadly
> he's managed to weave his lies around poor Captain Marvel, who in
> Fallen Form seems either a Djinn of the Game (with a kind of reverse
> Humanity attunement) or a Habbalite of some sort.

Flash seems to me more of an Ofanite of the Wind, with the Mercurian of the
Wind attunement.  And the Ofanite of Stone attunement as well.

Green Lantern = Elohite of the Sword.

Superman as a Cherub of Stone?  And I'm all for CM as a Habbalite of the
Game, even if only for the reason that it's the same Superior Luthor serves
at the moment...

Manny Neps

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:48:49 -0600
From: "Charles Glasgow" <cglasgow@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Manny Nepomuceno" <darkness@i-manila.com.ph>
To: <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

> Flash seems to me more of an Ofanite of the Wind, with the Mercurian of
the
> Wind attunement.  And the Ofanite of Stone attunement as well.

Ofanite of War attunement as well.  Flash *always* goes first.

> Green Lantern = Elohite of the Sword.

> Superman as a Cherub of Stone?  And I'm all for CM as a Habbalite of the
> Game, even if only for the reason that it's the same Superior Luthor
serves
> at the moment...

But what was he before he fell?  Elohite of the Sword?

- --
Chuckg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 22:52:25 -0500
From: EDG <edg@io.com>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

At 08:38 PM 12/7/00, you wrote:

>Green Lantern = Elohite of the Sword.

Not Guy Gardner, though.  ^_^  He's straight Malakite of Fire.

>Superman as a Cherub of Stone?  And I'm all for CM as a Habbalite of the
>Game, even if only for the reason that it's the same Superior Luthor serves
>at the moment...

I'm going to veto Superman for Stone for two reasons: one, he often strikes 
first, and two, heat vision is a ranged weapon. ^_^

For that matter, I'm not convinced on the Cherub part either.  Superman 
strikes me as more an extremely laid-back Ofanite, or even a Mercurian.  I 
do like Erich's idea of Superman being the Angel of Steel; an Ofanite of 
the Sword, only vaguely in touch with Laurence, sounds right to me.

- -EDG

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:55:17 -0500
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

At 9:48 PM -0600 12/6/00, Charles Glasgow wrote:
>
>
>But what was he before he fell?  Elohite of the Sword?

Elohite of Children.
- -- 
Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:03:58 -0600
From: "Charles Glasgow" <cglasgow@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "EDG" <edg@io.com>
To: <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: IN> relic question



> I'm going to veto Superman for Stone for two reasons: one, he often
strikes
> first, and two, heat vision is a ranged weapon. ^_^

Definitely.  He's most likely the Sword -- the ultimately honorable fighter.

> For that matter, I'm not convinced on the Cherub part either.

Have you ever seen Big Blue getting majorly obsessive about Lois's safety
and well-being?   (Such as the time he *literally* hiked the length of Hell
for her, during the Action Comics tie-in issues for 'Day Of Judgement').
Trust me, he's a Cherub, and it's mind-bogglingly obvious who his primary
attuned is.   It's just that he's the kind of big-hearted Cherub who'd like
to guard everybody, even those he's not attuned to specifically.

> Superman strikes me as more an extremely laid-back Ofanite, or even a
Mercurian.

Not savvy enough with group dynamics.  All of these Mercurians people keep
proposing as super-heroes... since when were any of them that good a set of
politicians?

Batman, I'm still trying to figure out.  In my mind he's a Servitor of Fire,
not Judgement -- he *lives* to find and punish the cruel.  As for his being
an Elohite?  I don't see it... he's definitely not objective enough.
Malakite, most likely... with one of his oaths being "I will never kill a
human being."

Nightwing I can believe as a Mercurian of Judgement -- he's one of the best
in the DCU at group dynamics.

Robin (Tim Drake), OTOH, is an Elohite.  Getting inside the villain's heads
is his strongest suit... and group dynamics and interpersonal relationships
is his weakest.  Plus, he's usually very emotionally repressed.  (His
current love interest has probably been making him rack up the dissonance
something fierce, though...).   As for his Superior?   Destiny.   Look at
what Tim's origin story has done re: getting both Batman's and Nightwing's
lives back on track.  Heck, practically everybody's life gets better around
Tim... except his own.

And then there's Oracle, who is beyond any and all possible doubt a Bright
Lilim of Archives.  *g*

- --
Chuckg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:11:42 +0800
From: Manny Nepomuceno <darkness@i-manila.com.ph>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

on 12/7/00 11:48 AM, Charles Glasgow at cglasgow@hotmail.com wrote:

> 
>> Flash seems to me more of an Ofanite of the Wind, with the Mercurian of
> the
>> Wind attunement.  And the Ofanite of Stone attunement as well.
> 
> Ofanite of War attunement as well.  Flash *always* goes first.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.  :)

>> Green Lantern = Elohite of the Sword.
> 
>> Superman as a Cherub of Stone?  And I'm all for CM as a Habbalite of the
>> Game, even if only for the reason that it's the same Superior Luthor
> serves
>> at the moment...
> 
> But what was he before he fell?  Elohite of the Sword?

Destiny.  Remember Shazam?  He's Yves in disguise...

Manny Neps

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 14:06:28 +0800
From: Manny Nepomuceno <darkness@i-manila.com.ph>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

Hmmm,

Any Kyriotates out there besides Deadman?  :)

Manny Neps

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:33:27 -0500
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

At 2:06 PM +0800 12/8/00, Manny Nepomuceno wrote:
>Hmmm,
>
>Any Kyriotates out there besides Deadman?  :)

Karma from the New Mutants, and Jericho from the Titans.
- -- 
Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 03:23:26 -0500
From: damienw@juno.com
Subject: Re: IN> relic question

On Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:41:18 -0600 David Edelstein <amadan@amadan.org>
writes:
> damienw@juno.com wrote:
> >   Depends on the Wonder Woman. Ever read the Kingdom Come version
> > of her? Malakite to the bone.
> 
> Nope. I got out of the comic book habit years ago.

  Well, hunt down the collection and read it; Kingdom Come
is a rather spiffy piece of work. (And it's a *painted*
comic. I love those.)

- ---
damienw[et]juno.com
"To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." -
Scott McCloud

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:26:39 GMT
From: daiv@cruzio.com
Subject: IN> IOU Student Loan Dept.

<silly>
How much is a Geas worth in cold hard cash, per level?
Do in a Darker, silly campaign, do Djinn attune to Library books? (flash back 
to the scene with Conan the Librarian, and you begin to get the idea..) 

</silly>

- -Daiv
Involuntary Discordian
"There comes a time when you realize
insanity is the only reasonable choice."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:44:42 -0500
From: Marc Bowden <ryumo@merit.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> IOU Student Loan Dept.

- --On Thursday, December 7, 2000 2:26 PM +0000 daiv@cruzio.com wrote:

> <silly>
> How much is a Geas worth in cold hard cash, per level?
> Do in a Darker, silly campaign, do Djinn attune to Library books?
> (flash back  to the scene with Conan the Librarian, and you begin
> to get the idea..)
>
> </silly>
>

  In my estimation, 5^(level) tends to work out well for casual 
calculation.
  But only for the Lillim. You can't simply hand a Lillim $15K and 
pay off a Geas/6. No siree. That'd be *way* too easy.

Marc. Just Marc.
Elohite Angel of Salvation
("Buy a murderer once and you get lifetime service.")

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:56:07 -0500
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 1 of 2

NOTE -- henceforth, "The Consolidation of the Queen's Power," which
is the first chunk of stuff in Queen of Hell, will be referred to as
LIL1 in the header, so I can stop retyping it and making every LIL
post look like every other one. Rejoicing may commence.

SUPERIOR OPINIONS
HELL
THE LUCIFERIANS

It comes as no surprise that the Luciferian Princes are deeply upset.
First off, their entire worldview has been smashed. As the Infernal
Player's Guide notes, much of their entire being was based on the
idea that Lucifer was right, God was wrong, and eventual victory was
inevitable. Lucifer dying *hurts.* Secondly, the degredation of one's
Word is actively painful -- like having a slow wound that's causing
an agonizingly slow bleeding to death. The Princes are not
immediately overly affected in power level (though they *do* feel an
effect after the first month) and not all Princes are degrading at
the same rate or the same way that Word-bound did, but all feel it,
and it's nothing they can ignore. At all times it is close to the top
of their thoughts, and as a result is more important than Lilith on
the Granite Throne or control of Hell. Third, however, is Lilith.

Had Lilith assumed the Granite Throne, stabilized Words, and moved
into Lucifer's role, there would be little dissention over her reign.
Oh, the usual schemers would scheme, and it's safe to say *every*
Prince would be trying to find a way to reverse the relationship and
assume Hell for his or herself, but there wouldn't be much
consternation beyond the usual grumbling about semievolved baboons
with delusions of grandeur.

However, Lilith is *not* taking on Lucifer's Role. She is actively
ruling, parceling out Words with a strategy in mind that she isn't
telling others, at least not yet. Those who serve her *obey* her, and
the autonomy known since the Dawn of Hell among the Princes is not
shared between her Seven.

This keeps the Luciferians at bay. While she could likely recruit any
of them if she tried (and held out the Word like a carrot, clouding
their judgement with their need for wholeness), she has stopped her
recruitment, instead waiting to see what her Seven and the
Luciferians do. So, without inducements, the Luciferians chafe and
resist, certain that if they make enough trouble, the Queen will have
to come to terms.

*If* they can remain unified.

At this time, all relations between Luciferian Princes should improve
one level. Enemies become Hostile Princes. Hostile Princes become
Neutral. Neutral Princes become Associated. Associated Princes become
Allied. Further, relations between Luciferian and Lilithian Princes
fall one level. Allies become Associated. Associated Princes become
Neutral. Neutral Princes become Hostile. Hostile Princes become
Enemies. You don't want to know what Enemies become.

Specific reactions and agendas are as follows:

Asmodeus: You cannot play the same game with different players, and
Lucifer was always a player in the game. He believed himself more,
but he learned differently. Now, Lilith plays her own game, and
Kronos plays his, and Baal plays his, and I of course play mine. I
will not mourn Lucifer -- he played and lost, but the Game continues.
Now my strategies must weave together. The Game between Heaven and
Hell must be secondary to Hell's own gambits, and I must consolodate
my position before I can procede. As for little Alaemon... he has
been given a good opening position in Lilith's strategem. Let us see
if he can play it. (Asmodeus's Servitors are concentrating almost
exclusively on Word bolstering -- Asmodeus has a Word that is easier
to bolster without inviting the Wrath of Stone than others -- and
entrenching their position on Earth. Asmodeus has elected to neglect
the huge number of refugee demons fleeing to Heaven for now -- after
all, Lilith has her own Spymaster for such things, and she has
declared herself the Queen of Hell, hasn't she? This seeming
unconcern over treason has led to more Gamester Renegades -- hidden
away with their Humanity attunements -- than at any known time in
history.)

Baal: In case you have forgotten -- and why should I expect otherwise
- -- there was a *purpose* to our Revolution. Lucifer, the shining
Morning Star, strove and ultimately died in the name of the Heavenly
Host -- those who followed him and those who did not. He swore that
we were *better* than these barely sentient, barely evolved simians.
*We* were the natural inheritors of Divine Grace and Favor, not these
sin-infested, lazy, crass sacks of *meat.* And now Lucifer lies dead,
his soul itself sacrificed in the name of our holy cause, and a
*human* has the audacity to sit upon the Granite Throne? I would
laugh but I am too busy weeping. This *human* has been suffered for
millenia as Lucifer's pet and in the name of her useful demons. But
to actually have this tiny little woman claim the right of rule over
*me?* *Absurd!* The very thought is offensive. She must be crushed
and eliminated -- as soon as we have brought our Words and Forces
into stability once more. In the meantime, the War continues. The War
always continues. And in Lucifer's martyred name we will pursue it
and *win* it. Now, if only I knew what *Kronos* was up to.... (If the
Game has more Renegades then ever before, then the War has fewer
deserters than any other Luciferian Prince's organization. The
Servitors of the War have intensely powerful Esprit de Corps as they
fight to establish the Word of the War more securely. This is in part
because of the speedy promotion track as the Generals and other
Word-bound of the War falter and die, and even the powerful
unWord-bound lead suicide missions to bolster the Word of War.)

Belial: It hurts. It *hurts!* Damn it, don't you understand? I can't
get away from her! I can't get *away* from her! I've got to make the
fire hotter! I've got to make the destruction *louder!* Destruction
- -- *damn* that monkey woman for making Furfur Destruction! *Damn*
her! He was mine! And then he was mine to *kill!* How dare she? How
*dare* she? Don't you see? It *hurts,* damn it! Damn Lilith! Damn
*Gabriel!* I can't get away! We have to burn them all away! Burn
Lilith! Burn Gabriel! Burn Earth and Heaven and Hell until only the
ash remains! (Belial and Gabriel have been in balance for a long time
- -- and so long as his Word at least approached hers in Power, he
could revel in the pain his Word caused the Archangel of Fire more
than be torn by it. However, as his Word falters and hers becomes
ascendent, Divine Fire now surrounds his being, forcing his selfish
Symphony to acknowledge it and literally making him Dissonant and
Discordant (especially since he is literally being 'burnt' by his own
scheme now.. Note that while he is Dissonant, he is *not* a candidate
for Redemption, as he flees the enlightenment in pain and
selfishness. His Word is failing much faster than others because of
the conflict, and as a result he has begun to feel the pain and loss
of sanity that has plagued Gabriel for so long. His Servitors are
similarly panicked and crazed, and are desperately trading their time
between setting obvious, catastrophic fires on Earth (to fuel his
Word -- especially since they can't merely be destructive now, as
that fuels *Furfur's* Word) and fighting Furfur's forces off in
Sheol, where their conflict is anything *but* hidden.)

Fleurity: Mm. Well, I've always had a good working relationship with
Lilith even though she never cared for me *personally.* I had thought
her humanity would draw her into my way of thinking -- the right
sniff or snort or needle and all, liberating her senses -- but it
didn't happen that way. She proved herself *strong* after all. I can
respect that, and intend to contact her and make my services
available. After all, it doesn't take a genius to see this revolt
will never last. Too many weak links, after all. And I could be of
great use to her. In the meantime, my Word slowly diminishes and that
must be dealt with, and I cannot afford to commit resources to
battle. The important thing is to ensure that operations continue to
rejuvinate me until Lilith and I come to an appropriate arrangement.
As for Lucifer's demise... well, ultimately the strong must be tested
against the strong. One will emerge as stronger, and the other does
not deserve our mourning. (Fleurity is calm in the face of
destruction -- panic or anger would be a sign of weakness, after all.
He has stepped up operations on Earth, in hopes that the more
demonstrative Luciferian assaults will distract Heaven away from him.
His Servitors are mostly employed in those endeavors, save for his
most expendable Servitors, who he has loaned to his 'allies' among
the Luciferians, as a sign of good faith. Fleuritians were quite
likely to go Renegade in the beginning of the chaos, but at this
point most of the potentially redemptive have left, leaving
Fleurity's organization diminished but not destroyed. Fleurity's
relative lack of Word-bound before the death of Lucifer means his
upper organization is remarkably untouched, however.)

Haagenti: I don't understand how Lucifer -- *Lucifer* -- died. I
mean, Michael's big and tough, but Lucifer wasn't a Demon Prince. He
was the *Devil.* Big D followed by *evil,* you know? He *intervened*
in the world, pushing it just like God does. Are you seriously
tellin' me Michael was in God's league all this time? Makes me
sick... and I *am* sick. Sick to my stomach. I haven't been sick
since I was a damn demonling. I hate this. *Hate* it. I'm tellin'
you, I don't relish the idea of following Lilith, but anything'd be
better than this. Well, food will help. Food *always* helps. And
Gluttony's been strong for a real long time. (Haagenti is worried --
like Belial, his Word seems to be failing faster than others among
the Luciferians. Haagenti's followers live in terror that their lord
will start eating them for their Forces, to help slow his decline.
They also know he's been agitating to join up with Lilith (under the
theory that it's better to be alive than dead, so he can go back to
Shal Mari and the way life *used* to be -- food and lots of it) and
that some of the more militant Luciferian Princes don't care for it.
Many who've reached Earth have fled to the Angels out of those fears.
The remainder are running Gluttony operations, but it's hard to
dramatically bolster a Word like Gluttony and keep it up.)


- -- 
Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:01:53 -0500
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
Subject: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 2 of 2

Kobal: This is the way the world ends, this is the way the world
ends, this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper.
Y'know, it's funny. I could have guessed Lucifer'd get spacked sooner
or later. It's been literally twenty thousand years since anyone'd
given him a fight. Michael's been training all that time, waiting for
the golden moment. Lucifer's lucky he even hurt Mikey. I could have
guessed, and you know the others could have. But it caught us all off
guard, and now here we're fading away. Funny. Heh. So, the question
is, do we fight on two fronts, trying to keep our Words alive while
our Word-bound turn into tapioca and the Host slaughters us on every
excursion *and* fight a Civil War for Hell, hot or cold doesn't
matter... or do we swallow our collective pride and suck up to Lilith
in the hopes she doesn't let us die. Gee, they both sound so
*good....* Still, I'll tell you something. When Lucifer died, there
weren't any more Infernal Interventions. They just stopped happening.
I always kept track of them where I could when I was responsible for
Fate, before Telly Savalas showed up. Now? Lilith's taken the throne
and the Interventions are back, helping Hell. Even our demons. But
we're still fighting against her even though she's *clearly* taken
over. Funny, isn't it? Huh? Aren't you laughing? (Kobal had fallen
into a kind of ennui before Lucifer died. After Lucifer's death, he's
clearly fallen into true depression. His world view has been proven
wrong and he's going to fade into nonexistance -- so why not laugh?
He barely directs his Servitors now, but his surviving Distincted
have taken it on themselves to promote his Word wherever possible.
It is not a good time to be a Servitor of Dark Humor.)

Malphas: Will I live or will I die? Who can tell? Who can try?
Lucifer is dead -- I loved him. I was his best friend. Lilith has his
throne. I love her. I am her best friend. Baal wants to destroy
Lilith before she can secure her power. I love him. I am his best
friend. All around me my fellows are dying -- slaughtered by Heaven,
fighting in Hell or having their Words collapse and die. And I? Can
but smile at the glorious factions that arise, like a pack of
children on a liferaft, arguing over trivialities until the raft
flips over and they die. For now I help the Luciferians. Tomorrow, it
may be clear their faction cannot win, and I will help the
Lilithians. In the meantime, I watch and listen and keep my forces
throughout Hell. Let Alaemon have Stygia. I don't need it any longer.
(Malphas is as always a faction of one. For now, it serves his needs
to work with the Luciferians. As soon as those winds change, so will
he. His forces are letting the others take the War to Heaven,
offering up only token resistance to Alaemon in Hell. Mostly, they
are slipping through the cracks into the realms, watching and
learning how the power struggles are progressing and different
alliances are forming. He is paying careful attention to how the
Lilithian Princes cooperate with one another, looking for patterns
and factions among them... all the better to exploit when he makes
his move across the Styx.)

Mammon: Damn *Lilith!* Damn her! I'll kill her! I'll break her bones
and rape her body and nail her carcass to my Vault's *wall,* and lock
her away for all time, giving her food in exchange for her daughters,
and they will work for *me.* How *dare* she take Lucifer's crown as
her own? And how *dare* she set that green skinned bitch up to take
my Word from me? She needs to learn -- Haagenti wasn't enough to take
Greed away from me. All the Princes who nailed me on Black Tuesday
weren't enough to take Greed away from me. Does she think her damn
daughter is enough to take my Word from me? Does she? I'll teach her
who's in charge. I'll give her something to rule. Oh *Hell* yeah! In
the meantime, *death* to the traitors, and vast riches to those who
put the Luciferian Princes in the driver's seat again! (Mammon is in
trouble and knows it. Rebekah, the Lilithian Lilim Princess of the
Deal, is clearly in his territory, taking strength away from his Word
and adding it to herself. Lucifer, who Mammon followed passionately
(or so he tells himself) is dead. His best and brightest Servitors
have proven to be bad investments, as his Word-bound die out and his
Servitors desert with dramatic speed -- most of them joining the
Princess of the Deal or Alaemon's service. Almost no Demons of Greed
have defected to Heaven, not with such attractive rates (and such an
attractive Princess) over at the Deal. Even his Tethers -- the ones
the thrice-damned *Sword* haven't blow up -- are being stolen for
Rebekah, the Seneschals throwing in with her in exchange for
stabilized Words. Those Servitors who remain loyal seek to promote
Greed without promoting the Deal and without getting killed by
Angels. It's not easy.)

Nybbas: It's a full bore Media *frenzy!* Hell is agog at the
spectacle, NNN's been running full bore reports on the War, on the
civil war, on rumors, on Lilith, on the new Princess... all slanted
Luciferian, natch, but slant or no it's being eaten up! And on Earth?
Pow! Whoosh! Zoom! Belial's setting fires, Mammon's starting
corporate takeovers, Baal's invading Hoboken and the Heavenly Host is
desperately trying to fight it *and* keep from revealing themselves!
It's a smorgasbord of videotape, and it's running everywhere on the
damn planet! My Word's just *fine,* baby, so I can sit back and make
a lot of friends and wait these *unfortunate* times out, then sign on
with the winner. It's a good thing. (Nybbas's organization has had a
number of defections to Heaven, but otherwise it's almost business as
usual. There's plenty of fodder for the Media to work with, and
Heaven is generally (although not entirely) busy with more violent
Princes reinforcing their Words. It's a good time to pitch ideas,
shape events, get the beauty shot on tape and get quality air time in
the Media. And while Nybbas is very positive, thanks to the general
Word reinforcement, his Servitors are getting quietly worried. Sooner
or later, either the emergencies will quiet down or the public will
get tired of them, and Media will wane slightly -- and then Nybbas
*is* doomed.)

Saminga: Lucifer is dead. I told you everyone dies. I told you.
Lucifer is dead, so Death is stronger than Lucifer. Lilith better
remember that. Baal better remember that. Michael better remember
that. Death is stronger than Lucifer. Death is stronger than God.
Death is. (Saminga's forces are divided -- divided between fleeing to
Furfur and fleeing to Heaven, that is. Saminga himself is sinking
into mania and death-worship. Those Servitors who are too loyal (or
who aren't bright enough) to leave their Prince are promoting his
Word from security, as Saminga's fortress is currently uncontested.
Of course, Saminga's undead *are* loyal, and none of them failed with
the Word-bound....)

Valefor: <comment unavailable> (Valefor's forces are in *abject*
chaos, as their Prince hasn't been seen since the Death of Lucifer.
While technically Luciferian, any number of Valefor's Servitors have
sought shelter with Lilith's Princes -- and Lilith has made it clear
she doesn't want Valefor's Servitors hurt. Invocations of Valefor
don't work. There is no formal effort to bolster Valefor's Word, as
Valefor's Word-bound has mostly died out and his Distincted but
un-Word-bound Servitors have adopted an "every demon for himself"
attitude. A few of Lilith's closer friends among the Servitors of
Theft have had their Words adapted, though a condition of
Word-adaption to Lilithian principles is to join with a Lilithian
Prince. Alaemon, Beleth and Vapula have been the greatest recipiants
of new talent from Theft. And of course, a large number have defected
to Heaven.)
- -- 
Eric Alfred Burns - <in-sabre@annotations.com>
<http://www.annotations.com/~innomine>
Habbalite of Belaboring the Point

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:07:04 -0000
From: "Adam Benedict Canning" <dahak@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: IN>Pagan Mummies

>
> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:09:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Walton <thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: IN>Pagan Mummies
>
> - --- "William J. Keith" <wjk150@email.psu.edu> wrote:
> > But the fact remains -- do undead have a Destiny,
> > or have they already embraced their Fate regardless?
> Just to let the
>
>   Undead do have destinies, but can't get to Heaven by
> meeting them.
> In the CPG, this fact is put forth as proof that Undead who serve
> Heaven are perhaps the most selfless beings in the War.
> Try to imagine
> centuries of service with no eternal reward to look forward
> to -- their
> only recompense is the satisfaction of helping others.
> That's a level
> of selflessness that few Humans ever achieve.  It's hard for me to
> believe that a person that selfless has no Destiny.

Can't one just send the Angel of the Chariot down to Transubstansiate
them.

He's got no trouble taking up living humans. Even those that haven't
yet met thier destiny.

Adam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:40:09 -0500
From: Earl Wajenberg <earlw@mc.com>
Subject: Re: IN> God's Word-bound 

Concerning God's involvment and appearances in IN:

As I recall the GMG, this is largely a matter of GM descretion.
But there are different kinds of Divine appearances.  The last 
time God made a "public" appearance -- i.e. to a whole lot of 
celestials at once, specifically the Seraphim Council -- was 
on the recall of Uriel, I think.  But there can be an arbitrary 
number of times He has appeared to private individuals of any 
species, or spoken through prophets.  It's just that there's no 
uniform way to TELL when that's happened.  A seraph will know 
that the person sincerely believes that God spoke to or through 
them, but even on a check digit of 6, God tends to remain 
ineffable.

Earl

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:01:11 -0800
From: "Bevan Thomas" <morgan_thomas@telus.net>
Subject: IN> DC angels

As painted comics go, I prefer Mr. Punch or Arkham Asylum, which are
absolute brilliant pieces of work. That aside...

The Spectre actually is an angel in In Nomine, and in fact if you go by Neil
Gaiman's Books of Magic, the Spectre is an archangel (in Books of Magic, it
is revealed that the archangels looks like white skinned men each with a
hooded cloak in one of the colors of the rainbow). Another archangel
encountered in DC comics is the Word (wearer of the orange hooded cloak) in
Mark Millar's run on Swamp Thing.

The Word is kind of like a nastier version Yves, since he is the first thing
that God ("the Voice") created ("in the beginning, there was the Voice, and
the Voice spoke, and what the Voice spoke was the Word").

Even in the normal DC world, the Spectre would be a superior (in fact, Books
of Magic suggests that he really Raguel, angel of vengeance). He would
especially be a superior if all the heroes would be angels. As for his Word,
I think that it would be a combination of Dominic's and Gabriel's,
controlling both judgement and vengeance.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <damienw@juno.com>
To: <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: IN> relic question


>
>

>
>   Well, hunt down the collection and read it; Kingdom Come
> is a rather spiffy piece of work. (And it's a *painted*
> comic. I love those.)
>
> ---
> damienw[et]juno.com
> "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." -
> Scott McCloud
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:33:05 -0800
From: "Marcus Evenstar" <evenstar@aa.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals...

I thought I'd add something to this discussion of Elvis as the Fisher King.
As I understand it, his family names are derived from Americanized Welsh;
Elvis means "of the Elves" while Presley is "(lives) under the hill." IIRC,
this could mean he's Teleasin (sp?), returned from the Fair Land. (Between
his Gluttonous & Obese Discords, his stay here was limited.)

There's also the matter of his still-born twin which features in many divine
king scenarios.

Marcus "ThangYuhVerrMuch" Evenstar

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:06:55 -0800
From: "Bevan Thomas" <morgan_thomas@telus.net>
Subject: Re: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 1 of 2

Brilliant. I especially love the write-up on Baal. Filled with hubris,
thinks his side is right. This is what he is supposed to be. As usual,
excellent work.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
To: <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:56 AM
Subject: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 1 of 2


> NOTE -- henceforth, "The Consolidation of the Queen's Power," which
> is the first chunk of stuff in Queen of Hell, will be referred to as
> LIL1 in the header, so I can stop retyping it and making every LIL
> post look like every other one. Rejoicing may commence.
>
> SUPERIOR OPINIONS
> HELL
> THE LUCIFERIANS

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:10:23 -0800
From: "Bevan Thomas" <morgan_thomas@telus.net>
Subject: Re: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 2 of 2

Once again, great stuff. Too many stuff talking about Kobal portrays him as
a half-baked comedian instead of the one of the most powerful superiors that
he is. The supreme joke has proven fruitless. Brilliant.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Whistling in the Dark <in-sabre@annotations.com>
To: <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:01 AM
Subject: IN> LIL1: Luciferian Opinions Part 2 of 2


> Kobal: This is the way the world ends, this is the way the world
> ends, this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper.
> Y'know, it's funny. I could have guessed Lucifer'd get spacked sooner
> or later. It's been literally twenty thousand years since anyone'd
> given him a fight. Michael's been training all that time, waiting for
> the golden moment. Lucifer's lucky he even hurt Mikey. I could have
> guessed, and you know the others could have. But it caught us all off
> guard, and now here we're fading away. Funny. Heh. So, the question
> is, do we fight on two fronts, trying to keep our Words alive while
> our Word-bound turn into tapioca and the Host slaughters us on every
> excursion *and* fight a Civil War for Hell, hot or cold doesn't
> matter... or do we swallow our collective pride and suck up to Lilith
> in the hopes she doesn't let us die. Gee, they both sound so
> *good....* Still, I'll tell you something. When Lucifer died, there
> weren't any more Infernal Interventions. They just stopped happening.
> I always kept track of them where I could when I was responsible for
> Fate, before Telly Savalas showed up. Now? Lilith's taken the throne
> and the Interventions are back, helping Hell. Even our demons. But
> we're still fighting against her even though she's *clearly* taken
> over. Funny, isn't it? Huh? Aren't you laughing? (Kobal had fallen
> into a kind of ennui before Lucifer died. After Lucifer's death, he's
> clearly fallen into true depression. His world view has been proven
> wrong and he's going to fade into nonexistance -- so why not laugh?
> He barely directs his Servitors now, but his surviving Distincted
> have taken it on themselves to promote his Word wherever possible.
> It is not a good time to be a Servitor of Dark Humor.)
>

------------------------------

End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1960
********************************

The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated.
All rights reserved.