From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 11 21:31:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13275 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:31:24 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA07984 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:32:37 -0600 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:32:37 -0600 Message-Id: <200012120332.VAA07984@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1966 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1966 In this digest: Re: IN> DC angels Re: IN> An odd notion - would people buy? Re: IN> An odd notion - would people buy? IN> Ril, Demon Prince of Ignorance Re: IN> Ril, Demon Prince of Ignorance Re: IN> Ril, Demon Prince of Ignorance IN> Me head hurt. Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine Re: IN> LIL1: Andrealphus IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. Re: IN> Weird question Re: IN> Weird question Re: IN> Weird question Lilith Tangent (Re: IN> Weird question) Re: IN> Weird question Re: IN> limited edition Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. RE: IN> limited edition Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... New adventure seed (WAS: Re: Lilith Tangent (Re: IN> Weird question)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:04:22 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> DC angels Actually, Deadman would be a dream shade, since he is an incorporeal ghost. However, Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and people like that have Rama Kushna as simply one of the many forms of God. Perhaps Deadman is a saint really good at the song of possession who answers to a rather crazy angel known as Rama Kushna who either masquerades as God or believes herself to be God. Or perhaps God has truly visited Deadman in the form of Rama Kushna. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Walton To: Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 8:05 PM Subject: Re: IN> DC angels > > That makes Rama Kushna a really powerful Ethereal and Deadman an > Undead Pagan Soldier. };;;> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:59:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> An odd notion - would people buy? *I* would like Cardboard Celestials, even though I have very little chance of using them. (I've got lots of game-stuff I'm not likely to use. I like to read it, and besides, you never know.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:09:07 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner-Thornber Subject: Re: IN> An odd notion - would people buy? > *I* would like Cardboard Celestials, even though I have very > little chance of using them. (I've got lots of game-stuff > I'm not likely to use. I like to read it, and besides, you > never know.) We (meaning my gaming group of about 10 people who float in and out of my home) would never buy them because we use a far more customizable form of miniature for our gaming battles: Lego minifigs. We've tried cardboard minis for things like ship combat in Spelljammer, and they're susceptable to being chewed on and destroyed by obnoxious 9 month old kittens who also want to game. Experimentation has taught me that cardboard cutouts are okay if you don't have things like pets, children, fans, strong breezes, or anyone who coughs, sneezes or breathes. (A sneeze totally destroyed one of my battles.) They're great if no one is actually in the room while you try to use them... but they pretty much suck otherwise. Legos don't suffer the problem of being chewed, they don't fall over, and they can be stuck onto a board where they are harder to pry off and bat around. Furthermore, minifig parts are orderable off the lego website and through mailorder. AND, you can build little lego wings on your d00ds if need be. Combined with little lego hair and lego outfits and lego silver swords and lego helmets and lego ray guns and mad lego robots... you can't go wrong with lego. Heck, you can make a little lego Vapula if you want... And best of all, you can wait and get 'em when they go on dirt-cheap sale at Kmart or Target or Meijer and get tons of them. I swear to god, because we can build full battle scenes out of legos -- and they're reusable!!! -- there is more now in my home than when I was a kid. (We've worked out full d20 rules for Lego minifig combat as well, but that's not an In Nomine topic.) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emily K. Dresner-Thornber -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:32:40 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Eng Subject: IN> Ril, Demon Prince of Ignorance Mr. Ignorance thinks that all his problems are created, directly or indirectly, by God... ...and he accepts Habbalah in his service?! "I'm an angel, do you hear me! An angel!" "Okay. Die." **SPLAT** Peter Eng ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:54:16 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Ril, Demon Prince of Ignorance - --On Monday, December 11, 2000 8:32 AM -0800 Peter Eng wrote: > Mr. Ignorance thinks that all his problems are created, directly or > indirectly, by God... > > ...and he accepts Habbalah in his service?! > > "I'm an angel, do you hear me! An angel!" > > "Okay. Die." > > **SPLAT** > And on the other side of the coin, Habbalah mesh with and embody his word perfectly, no only ignorant, but *willfully* ignorant, to the exclusion of all else. "Wielding their ignorance like a shield," to paraphrase Gaiman and Prachett. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Wot chapter of th' Hell's Angels you from'n?" "REVELATIONS, CHAPTER 19.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:48:47 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Ril, Demon Prince of Ignorance > And on the other side of the coin, Habbalah mesh with and embody >his word perfectly, no only ignorant, but *willfully* ignorant, to >the exclusion of all else. "Wielding their ignorance like a shield," >to paraphrase Gaiman and Prachett. Pretty much. He feels sorry for Habbalah and hopes in his Service they'll see the light. His Habbalah feel sorry for him and hope by being in his Service he'll see the light. Some Habbalah justify it with a non-free will, their just doing what God wants them to do explanation. Others think that Ril is the primary opposition to God, set out to spread lies about the universe to everyone. No one could actually believe what he does, right? As for Ril he thinks that Habbalah are angels on he right track. Because of their almost demonic nature they have separated enough from God to not be a thread, but can still go into Heaven! Needless to say he was baffled when that little infiltration plan failed. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:53:34 -0000 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: IN> Me head hurt. > Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:31:52 -0500 > From: damienw@juno.com > Subject: IN> Me head hurt. > > Dunno if this has ever been brought up before, and it likely > has, but I just came back from Anime Club and my head is STILL > all !@#$ed up. Anyway: > > In Nomine Evangelion. Discuss. O_O > Simple. Kobal has got Valfor to steal several of Baal's top capability combat vessel and is sending thoses of his minions who most recently made the least funny jokes to wreck havock on earth. Meanwhile the Fiat Justinia angels try to stop them. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:08:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine At 3:27 AM -0500 12/10/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: >> >Well I picked it up, liked it a lot, just got one question. I tried >> >to look at the mechanics, following the URL that was given in the >> >back. [...] >>They're on ze spouse's computer, because he wanted to tidy them up a >>little, and Life has been hitting us a bit. [...] > >Gah! They're not in the book itself?! First, we were going to include the number crunching in the text. That kind of bloated the entries. Then we were going to have an appendix. Then we were going to have a 3-col 6-point type appendix. Then SJ and Kromm agreed that no, they didn't really want to add about 10 more pages to the already-huge (it's like #3-#5 in Biggest GURPS Sourcebook land) tome. So it's going to be on the web. >Argh . . . -sigh- As a gear head >and number cruncher, I am saddened deeply. Look at it this way -- the crunchy numbers will be available for free. The _final_ point values are in there, of course, and you may well be able to back-convert... >Dude, I'm getting the book in a matter of weeks . . . this GURPS player will >see and then . . . so shall you learn of what I see. Ooooo. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 13:06:23 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> LIL1: Andrealphus Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:11:12 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> LIL1: Andrealphus At 6:44 AM -0800 12/10/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >>*Knowing Novalis and her dedication to peace and >>reaching out to Hell, the only reason I can see that >>she hasn't already been blackmailed several times >>over is that attempting to do so is one of the very >>few things that's on the Things That Push My Buttons >>List. >> >>Well, I'm sure that one could come up with other >>reasons, but I like this one anyway. :) >I think my reason would be blackmailing her doesn't >work. "If you don't do as I say -- we'll reveal all >about this meeting" leads to Novalis sighing slightly >and saying "well, if you must, please do so >quickly. Hold on -- I have the local Judgement tether >on speed dial." > Man, why do you get all the good reasons? :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:46:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:12:37 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 2 > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:09:33 -0800 (PST) >From: Maurice Lane >Subject: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. > >It's a fun exercise, to say the least. A shame Ken >Hite doesn't s u b scribe to this list; he might find >this one amusing. :) > >As always, hope you all enjoy. > >:) > >Moe > >Quinn >Mercurian Vassal of Lightning >Angel of Psychohistory > >Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 6 Agility: 6 >Ethereal Forces: 6 Intelligence:12 Precision: 12 >Celestial Forces: 5 Will: 9 Perception: 11 >Suggested Word-Forces: 14 > >Vessel: human male/2 > >Skills: Computer Operation/3, Detect Lies/3, Dodge/3, >Emote/1, Fighting/2, Knowledge (psychohistory/6*, >research/1, statistics/6, sociology/6), Move >Silently/1, Ranged Weapons/2 (pistol), Savoir-Faire/1 > >*Psychohistory is defined, in this setting, as the >prediction of future mass events and societal trends >from existing data. It is not meant to predict the >actions of specific individuals, or specific events. >This skill will not tell you how many children you >will have, or who will win the next Kentucky Derby. > >Songs: Empathy (Ethereal/1, Celestial/1), Fire >(Ethereal/1), Friendship (Ethereal/1), Light >(Celestial/3), Lightning (Ethereal/1), Machines >(Ethereal/1), Memory (Celestial/1), Shadows >(Corporeal/1), Shields (all/1), Submission >(Corporeal/1, Celestial/1), Symphony (All/2), Tongues >(Corporeal/3, Ethereal/5*), Truth (Ethereal/2) >*Free from Mercurian of Lightning Attunement > >Role: "Isaac Flynn" (statistician/5, Status 5) > >Attunements: Mercurian of Lightning, Seraphim of >Lightning, Library Card, Vassal of Lightning, Angel of >Psychohistory > >Angel of Psychohistory: Quinn can't see what will >happen, but he's got a very firm idea of what's likely >to happen, absent celestial interference. Generally, >Quinn knows the broad outline of human history for the >next twenty years or so at all times. This ability >isn't specific: predicting individual life histories >is impossible, for example. Also, to use this ability >effectively Quinn must spend at least three hours a >day going over raw news and statistical data: failure >to do so will very soon make the predictive model in >his head useless. Quinn often gives this out as a >Servitor Attunement: unlike many Word-bound, he's been >even known to gift this to humans. > >Also, Quinn may attempt to focus his attention with a >Perception-2 roll. While doing this, he may either >attempt to: push his broad knowledge of future human >to about a century; attempt to determine the most >obvious consequences of a particular action; or >concentrate on a smaller sample group for the next >year. Doing the last gives him a fairly decent chance >to determine small scale outcomes (for example, if he >attempts to examine baseball, Quinn could tell you >who'll be in the playoffs, but not what the final >score of the World Series will be ... or even be >certain which two teams will be playing it). Needless >to say, this ability will not take celestial >interference into account. > >Rites: > >: Spend 3 hours studying raw news and statistical >data. >: Repair the damage to future events caused by >celestial interference. >: Participate in an unbiased survey. > >There's a reason why Jean suppressed Babbage Engines, >and he works in a cluttered office in the Halls of >Progress. > >Quinn is one of Lightning's social scientists. He >loves statistics, loves sociology, and most of all, >loves the humans that provide him with such >fascinating data to play with. When the first >prototypes for mechanical computers came along, he >loved them too. Naturally, the first thing Quinn did >was to try to use them for his own work. Despite not >being particularly mechanical, he succeeded. > >However, the more he massaged the data, the more he >started to suspect that one could make a mathematical >model of human behavior and activities. After several >years of research (immensely aided by Lightning's >excellent records), he succeeded in doing so. It >wasn't perfect, but it could generally explain why >large groups of people acted the way they did. >Naturally, he confirmed this by taking historical >records, plugging in the numbers, and checking his >results against the ones that actually happened. Even >with celestial interference (a variable that could be >accounted for), the equations held true. This pleased >Quinn: it promised to make for a very respectable >paper in Jean's sociological journals. > >Said paper ("An examination of common Corporeal >Historical, Sociological and Economic Events, with a >speculative series of functions to describe same") >never made it past the review board, an order came >down to immediately suppress the development of >Babbage Machines, and Jean himself pulled Quinn out of >his nice, comfortable office to be presented before an >emergency meeting of the Seraphim Council. The >problem was not that the theory was flawed: it wasn't. > The problem was that Quinn had never considered that >the theory could be used to predict, as well as >confirm. > >Jean had caught this right away, of course, and >decided that the intelligent thing to do would be to >keep humanity from working out the theory >independently. Meanwhile, angels properly trained in >'psychohistory' should prove to be a definite asset to >the Host, and as Quinn had originally worked out the >techniques, naturally he would be the best choice for >the Word... > >Today, Quinn still spends much of his time in Heaven >collating statistical data and overseeing a core of >Servitors of Lightning who attempt to refine the >theory further. However, he does go down to Earth >periodically, in order to make sure that the >information he receives is free of bias. His Role >(the head of a small demographic firm) has several >caretakers who keep it current for him when he isn't >using it. Quinn also has a few Servitors assigned to >him for fieldwork. > >Personally, he's pleasant enough, but virtually >incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't have a >background in the social sciences. Quinn sees >virtually everything in sociological or statistical >terms, which can make him seem cold to those who hear >him talk. However, just because a certain amount of >cruelty is expected in a particular societal matrix >doesn't mean that he'll tolerate it in his presence. >Quinn likes humans more than ever, now: he can get a >grasp on _why_ they do things, which is something that >sometimes confuses the average Mercurian. > >One final note: normally, Quinn doesn't try to >interfere too much with human development. Pinning >down the results of celestial interference has always >been the hardest part of his job, and he's content to >just try to minimize the aftereffects so that mortals >can go on with their lives. However, there have been >two or three times when Quinn and his >mini-organization have gone into overdrive, spending >weeks to months in feverish activity. Often, their >actions at these times have been bizarre and >incomprehensible to other celestials. Each time this >has happened, he's eventually stopped, breathed a >public sigh of relief, and gone about his business as >if nothing has happened. > >Nobody below Archangel level is sure about what just >happened, but the Seraphim Council always seems to >increase Quinn's budget and spread rewards around him >and his Servitors afterwards. Either he's merely >justifying his job, or Heaven just dodged a bullet >most angels didn't even see... > > > >===== >In Nomine stuff: >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html > >Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. >http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:06:52 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Weird question At 8:37 AM -0800 12/10/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Here's a question, do any of the Demon Princes >actually _like_ each other? > >I don't mean, "don't usually try to kill each other >when they meet": I mean, unambigiously like. Kobal and Haagenti? Well, on Haagenti's side. Sort of. Kinda. Maybe Lilith/Valefor/Andrealphus? Again, it's a sort of thing. I mean, I could see one of them wandering in, plopping down, and engaging in some sort of random small-talk. With an edge to it, mind... (No, that's not canon. Shoo, shoo, I'm allowed to have my own opinions.) >The reason why I bring this up is because all of this >suggests that Hell has a profound weakness when it >comes to fighting the War. If the Host ever decided >to take down one Prince, they could quite possibly >manage it, because none of the DPs can really depend >on their allies to not bug out if it looks like the >situation has gone pear-shaped: Yes and no. Generally, Princes have probably learned from the Vephar Incident -- these days, if a Prince has _someone_ who's convinced that he's better alive than dead, he can call that someone. Who will call one of _his_ allies, and so on, and so on, until you've got bloody Armageddon scheduled impromptu-like in a back alley of New York. Or so I've always figured. Then again, if a Prince _isn't_ sure that, say, he can persuade Baal to come and teach this little Malakite AngelPrince a thing or two, said Prince will probably high-tail it back to Hell. And if said AngelPrince follows... Well, the Princes take a dim view on that. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "She's either babbling, or summoning Elder Gods. I'm not sure which." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:57:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Weird question It seems reasonable to me that the Demon Princes can encompass the concept of "enlightened self-interest" and so can have *allies* -- except maybe for the really thick ones like Saminga and Belial. It's also possible they have peers whom they enjoy socializing with, for one reason or another. But if it became useful to damage that peer, I feel sure they'd always do it, rather than forego the benefit or take damage themselves. If Haagenti actually admires Kobal, then he's probably the overfed gremlin is probably the closest Prince to Redeeming, since admiration is taking joy in someone else being greater than you, and thus fundamentally unselfish. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 23:23:03 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Weird question From: "Elizabeth McCoy" Subject: Re: IN> Weird question > these days, if a Prince has > _someone_ who's convinced that he's better alive than > dead, he can call that someone. Who will call one of > _his_ allies, and so on, and so on, until you've got > bloody Armageddon scheduled impromptu-like in a back > alley of New York. like archduke ferdinand and WW1. i could see this happening if anyone really gunned for Lilith. the string of geases she carries probably has a fair few Mutually Assured Destruction clauses in it ("if i die, *everyone* dies") liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:06:28 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Lilith Tangent (Re: IN> Weird question) Warning I have had very little sleep, am taking a study break and about to go mad. God I love college 8) Lilith dying, this brings up some interesting stuff. Lilith is human, she may very well still be alive. Thus killing her corporeally may have some interesting effects. She probably hasn't met her Destiny, so she's not going to arrive at the pearly gates. If she's met her Fate than she'll walk through the gates of Hell, annoyed and return to earth to get revenge. But if she hasn't done either (as its implied in several places, IIRC) she'd reincarnate or disband. Disbanding isn't very interesting, at least not right off the bat. No real difference from being celestially killed, except possibly a big ass disturbance as Lilith's considerable Forces go tearing back into the Symphony. Reincarnation on the other hand would mean that her potential for Forces, if not the Forces themselves, would be inherited by her next self. Presumably her Word follows her soul around, and so somewhere, some really unlucky parents are going to have a Demon Princess as a daughter. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:28:45 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Weird question >Here's a question, do any of the Demon Princes >actually _like_ each other? I don't mean, "don't >usually try to kill each other >when they meet": I mean, unambigiously like. I think this one's a function of the Contrast level in your game. The lower the contrast, the more likely it is that Demon Princes might engage in such selfless behavior as friendship. Hey, if they can work with the Archangels now and again, surely they can dine with each other. * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:05:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> limited edition At 10:12 PM -0500 12/10/00, Richard Stokes wrote: >I have a limited edition In Nomine Hard Back (white). I am wondering where I >could sell it and how much I should ask. Check out eBay to see what they're going for at auction -- some of the black covers were going for about $30 recently. >Also, does anyone know how many >copies were made? I _THINK_ I recall something about 5000 of them being held back from the initial print run, half to be bound in the white cover, half in the black. >I tried emailing SJG over a month ago but have received no >reply. Who'd you ask? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:55:24 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. At 16:46 11/12/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:12:37 -0600 > >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type > /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 2 > > > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:09:33 -0800 (PST) > >From: Maurice Lane > >Subject: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not > even sure actually exists. > > > >It's a fun exercise, to say the least. A shame Ken > >Hite doesn't s u b scribe to this list; he might find > >this one amusing. :) > > > >As always, hope you all enjoy. > > > >:) > > > >Moe > > > >Quinn > >Mercurian Vassal of Lightning > >Angel of Psychohistory If it's any help, I managed to hand in a university psychology/AI paper with this topic (I was inspired by reading far too many Foundation novels in a short burst a few weeks prior to that) and managed to get top marks for it! So it is considered psychologically plausible or my lecturer wasn't paying attention. I never found out which one though... > >One final note: normally, Quinn doesn't try to > >interfere too much with human development. Pinning > >down the results of celestial interference has always > >been the hardest part of his job, and he's content to > >just try to minimize the aftereffects so that mortals > >can go on with their lives. However, there have been > >two or three times when Quinn and his > >mini-organization have gone into overdrive, spending > >weeks to months in feverish activity. Often, their > >actions at these times have been bizarre and > >incomprehensible to other celestials. Each time this > >has happened, he's eventually stopped, breathed a > >public sigh of relief, and gone about his business as > >if nothing has happened. > > > >Nobody below Archangel level is sure about what just > >happened, but the Seraphim Council always seems to > >increase Quinn's budget and spread rewards around him > >and his Servitors afterwards. Either he's merely > >justifying his job, or Heaven just dodged a bullet > >most angels didn't even see... To drag this post back on topic, Quinn would probably be constantly fighting the effects of the Demon of Saltatory History, who promotes the view that a smooth predictable flow of history is punctuated by acts of brilliant individuals who drastically alter the entire flow of human cultural evolution. Whereas Quinn would be able to determine whether certain events are inevitable, his opponent would be able to determine who would be able to interrupt otherwise inevitable events. Perhaps Quinn is constantly attempting to predict what his opponent is trying to do, and when he comes up with a particularly high certainty of knowledge, attempts to "restore" the "normal flow" of history (for some definition of normal flow). Perhaps, instead of attempting this, he might be attempting to revise his models to take it into account; a short deadline before his models become history themselves would induce a manic period of activity... > >===== > >In Nomine stuff: > >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html > > > >Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > >http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > Pak ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:05:16 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pak Chan" To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 6:55 PM Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. [snip] > To drag this post back on topic, Quinn would probably be constantly > fighting the effects of the Demon of Saltatory History, who promotes the > view that a smooth predictable flow of history is punctuated by acts of > brilliant individuals who drastically alter the entire flow of human > cultural evolution. Why is this necessary a demonic Word? I can easily see the Angel of Psychohistory fighting it out with the *Angel* of Saltatory History, who is a Servitor of Destiny. OTOH, the Demon of Social Entropy [1] is most probably a servitor of Fate. *g* - -- Chuckg [1] Forget about ruining psychohistory's day by having the 'One Great Man' leap to pre-eminence. Ruin it instead by subtly corrupting the starting factors of the equation so that, psychohistorically speaking, a really bad time for one and all is inevitable. Remember, Asimov's original psychohistory concept included the premise "And the psychohistorians can *change* the eventual end result... by changing the starting conditions." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 01:32:55 +0000 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that you're not even sure actually exists. Great writeup, Moe. Whatever you're taking, I want some. I don't care how illegal it is... At 19:05 11/12/2000 -0600, Chuckg wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pak Chan" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 6:55 PM >Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: _You_ try writing up a Word-bound for a concept that >you're not even sure actually exists. > >[snip] > > To drag this post back on topic, Quinn would probably be constantly > > fighting the effects of the Demon of Saltatory History, who promotes the > > view that a smooth predictable flow of history is punctuated by acts of > > brilliant individuals who drastically alter the entire flow of human > > cultural evolution. > >Why is this necessary a demonic Word? It's not. I just thought it fitted in better as an explanation of Quinn's mysterious bursts of activity. Give him someone juicy to oppose. >I can easily see the Angel of Psychohistory fighting it out with the *Angel* >of Saltatory History, who is a Servitor of Destiny. Do *Angels* fight like this? It would be a rather vicious fight, given that potential hostility between their words. If there was an Angel of Saltatory History, I rather think she [1] would most likely work _with_ Quinn, in order to help correct the information he is feeding to his model. >OTOH, the Demon of Social Entropy [1] is most probably a servitor of Fate. >*g* > >-- >Chuckg > > > >[1] Forget about ruining psychohistory's day by having the 'One Great Man' >leap to pre-eminence. Ruin it instead by subtly corrupting the starting >factors of the equation so that, psychohistorically speaking, a really bad >time for one and all is inevitable. Remember, Asimov's original >psychohistory concept included the premise "And the psychohistorians can >*change* the eventual end result... by changing the starting conditions." This is sounding so familiar... However, I would assume that Quinn would be constantly watching for deviations from his model that would inevitably result from such corruption, and trying to work out whether his model was wrong or the starting factors. Remember, his model (presumably) has been going for a while and, as written, works perfectly (if labouriously). Any changes to prediction would be detected and investigated, and possibly "corrected". Hmmm. That too, fits in with the mysterious bursts of activity... Pak. [1] Why female? Must be modelled on someone I know =8-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:49:34 -0500 From: "Richard Stokes" Subject: RE: IN> limited edition -----Original Message----- From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth McCoy Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:05 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> limited edition At 10:12 PM -0500 12/10/00, Richard Stokes wrote: >I have a limited edition In Nomine Hard Back (white). I am wondering where I >could sell it and how much I should ask. Check out eBay to see what they're going for at auction -- some of the black covers were going for about $30 recently. >Also, does anyone know how many >copies were made? I _THINK_ I recall something about 5000 of them being held back from the initial print run, half to be bound in the white cover, half in the black. >I tried emailing SJG over a month ago but have received no >reply. Who'd you ask? I just contacted the general email address. sjgames@io.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:47:15 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:58:29 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... > I vote for Uncle Sam. Between the recitation of >the Pledge of Allegiance in grade schools, the >playing of the Natinal Anthem on military bases (even >in the base theatre before the previews -- as an >Air Force brat, I know this) and an annual worship >Rite in which over _250 million_ people participate, >this guy would be rolling in Essence.===== He is. :) Seriously, I'd say that a dark horse for the position for the most powerful Ethereal would be ... the Statistical Norm. After all, his/her most potent ability would be to blend in _anywhere_ where there's more than three people. Malakim and Servitors of Nightmares would walk right past him/her. Assuming that he/she didn't use her nature to successfully emulate said celestials... :) Mpe Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:10:37 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... At 6:47 PM -0800 12/11/00, Maurice Lane wrote: > > >He is. :) > >Seriously, I'd say that a dark horse for the position >for the most powerful Ethereal would be ... the >Statistical Norm. Hm.... By those lights... a powerful Ethereal could be... "They." You know - -- They say this, They say that. You know what They say. Not to be confused with Them, who of course are giant ants. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:18:56 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:10 PM Subject: Re: IN> Some of the most powerful Ethereals... > At 6:47 PM -0800 12/11/00, Maurice Lane wrote: > >Seriously, I'd say that a dark horse for the position > >for the most powerful Ethereal would be ... the > >Statistical Norm. > > Hm.... > > By those lights... a powerful Ethereal could be... "They." You know > -- They say this, They say that. You know what They say. > > Not to be confused with Them, who of course are giant ants. Naaaah... the most powerful Ethereal is Nobody. Think about it. Nobody is more powerful than God. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:28:37 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: New adventure seed (WAS: Re: Lilith Tangent (Re: IN> Weird question)) From: "Tim Groth" > > Reincarnation on the other hand would mean that her potential for > Forces, if not the Forces themselves, would be inherited by her next > self. Presumably her Word follows her soul around, and so somewhere, > some really unlucky parents are going to have a Demon Princess as a > daughter. This is too sick for Words. Although I think of a way that I can make it sicker, but for time reasons I won't explain it all just yet... (And no, this adventure seed doesn't require Lilith to be dead at all - this discussion was simply the spark that inspired me.) (And Moe? I think you'll like this one, once I get the chance to drop the other shoe in part two...) Adventure Seed: Yves' meditations in the library were interrupted by a noise coming from the room where the Book of Names was kept. The Archangel of Archives* was shocked to see him run, not walk, toward the source of the sound, and frowned in puzzlement at both the unfamiliarty of the tone, and the fact that it was unlike anything she had ever heard in the entirety of her existence. Unable to contain her curiosity, she followed the Archangel of Destiny as best she could. "...And you are to tell no one of this," she heard Yves saying to those who guarded the book within, "Not even to tell them which name it was that required my attentions." As the most trusted servitors of Destiny murmured their agreement, Yves turned to leave, his carefully neutral expression more ineffible than usual. Archives looked to Destiny in bewilderment. "What happened?" "The beginning," was Yves' only reply. Meanwhile, in Hell, Kronos paused in his inspection of his archives. The demon whose task it was to keep this section organised according to whichever system ruled on any given day waited fearfully, the hope that its work had won approval fighting a losing battle against the soul-numbing fear that it had misfiled something. The smile which crossed Kronos' face was as unexpected as it was unnerving. A long, clammy moment passed. And then another. "Dread Lord," the reliever finally said when its terror of remaining silent was stronger than its terror of receiving an answer, then fell into silent fear as the Prince of Fate turned to look at its quivering form. "And so it begins," Kronos said, uncharacteristic humor in his voice. "Oh, and Ithkael, you filed these two volumes in reverse order. Sloppiness will get you nowhere, my boy, but I suppose I shall prove lenient this once. You only have to take down and re-file the volumes on this one shelf, rather than your entire section." And with that Kronos walked off, his soft laughter drowning out the relieved sobs of his servitor at the narrow escape it had managed from far worse, and more usual, punishments. ================ The birth of a mortal girl has drawn the attention of both Destiny and Fate. All that either superior will tell anyone is that Mary Elizabeth Jenkins has been born with an importance beyond that of most mortal children, and each has entrusted a small squad of servitors to look after her and keep the Other Side from interfering any more than can be prevented. Not surprisingly, this draws both the attention and the wrath of those superiors who are hostile to either Destiny, Fate, or both, once the word leaks out. The PCs find themselves forced to fend off the actions of not only their direct opponents in the war, but also (depending on whether they serve Heaven or Hell,) may have to defend Mary Elizabeth from hostiles working for what would otherwise be the same side. And when the servitors of Destiny and Fate learn that they both have an objective which amounts to "make sure she's left alone," what do they do then? Do they continue trying to eliminate each other, or do they decide that maybe, just this once, collaboration isn't such a bad idea? All that either Yves or Kronos will tell them amounts to "Make sure she is left alone as much as possible," after all, so since they're working toward the same goal anyway... ================= *Which Rule of Acquisition was "It never hurts to suck up to the Boss"** again? **Or "the List Admin," in this case. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1966 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.