From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Dec 14 22:08:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12127 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:08:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA13135 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:07:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:07:20 -0600 Message-Id: <200012150407.WAA13135@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1972 In this digest: Re: IN> Questions Re: IN> Questions Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright IN> Dark Bright IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma IN> Ophis may be the Seneschal of Abel's Grave Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma IN> Children of the Grigori Re: IN> Supermarket Adventure Re: IN> Minor Choir of Yves??? Re: IN> Re: Personae Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright Re: IN> Someone's done this right? Re: IN> Oh, no, not another Minor Band Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. Re: IN> Sock Hop (with occasional gunplay) Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:46:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Questions At 3:45 PM -0500 12/14/00, zlindsey wrote: >I was looking at the timeline in the GM's Guide, and a few thoughts struck >me. If anyone can answer these questions, it would be greatly appreciated. >First, did Asmodeus have a Word when he Fell? None has ever been listed, and since he was reporting to Dominic at the time, who wasn't an AA yet, probably not. He might have been in line for one. >Second, what happened to Ophis, the angel who tainted the Eden experiment? No one knows at this time. No telling if it would come up again later. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:46:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Questions At 3:45 PM -0500 12/14/00, zlindsey wrote: >I was looking at the timeline in the GM's Guide, and a few thoughts struck >me. If anyone can answer these questions, it would be greatly appreciated. >First, did Asmodeus have a Word when he Fell? None has ever been listed, and since he was reporting to Dominic at the time, who wasn't an AA yet, probably not. He might have been in line for one. >Second, what happened to Ophis, the angel who tainted the Eden experiment? No one knows at this time. No telling if it would come up again later. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:00:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright At 9:22 AM +0000 12/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:54:41 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 10:12 PM -0800 12/12/00, N O wrote: >[snip] >>>I wonder how you would do Malilim? >> Hrm? > presumably, a Lilim who thinks and acts like a Malakite, focused on obedience and honor, but with her Resonance for Needs still in place (further presumably used to detect whether someone would side with Heaven or Hell based on Needs detected). Sounds like a close variant of the Destiny Choir Attunement for Brights... > oh, and point to ponder about Dark Bright (first, yes, i finished and >liked it): i think Laurence very much does not single out trainees for >spectacular performance, or even good performance, or even good >effort--publicly. [But] >is canny enough to know his soldiers--his swords, as he thinks of them--need to >be polished with praise in private for the effort of training and fighting >against Hell just as they need to be honed in practice and in battle. Oh, definitely. But, well, she wasn't finished -- she was still a trainee. Why should he get all overwrought over basic training? No other angel'd ever needed it before... > so yes, i liked it, but i just wouldn't run a game that way :) Oh, me neither. It does have a rather large dose of Bad Luck added in, and it's kind of depressing. OTOH, if someone got an adventure seed out of it... O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:56:53 -0500 (EST) From: Twila Oxley Price Subject: IN> Dark Bright Finally, finally, my computer at home is fixed and io.com is up, and I read it. Ow. I'm going to have to have a talk with Laurence, I am. (Well, okay, someone is, but damn. That's hard.) Twila ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:01:41 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:36:50 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 10:37 PM -0500 12/12/00, William J. Keith wrote: [snip] >>>If Dominic catches her adopting Grigori, he's going to start a trial >>>rolling. They're Outcast for a _reason_... O:> >>Hm. Does just handing out an attunement count as adoption? >Yes, it would, pretty much. Angels in good standing are NOT supposed >to be having ANYTHING to do with the Grigori. The Grigori are Outcast, >not just not invited to tea anymore. this isn't strictly Grigori-related, but from what i recall of Outcasts, their Hearts are unbroken; they're still bound by their Superior's Dissonance Condidtions--from this, my question arises: are Grigori out there still serving their former Archangels' Words? if a Grigori winds up vessal-killed, does it go into Trauma in Heaven, get sucked into Limbo, or what? if it's in Heaven, WHERE are all the Grigori Hearts? still with former Archangels, the Traumatic Outcasts treated as if they aren't even there when angels of that Word walk past that part of the Archangel's Cathedral? were all the Grigori Hearts rouned up and locked in one of Dominic's vaults with no interior doorknob? i mean, it's not like Heaven has shoot-on-sight orders the way Hell wants all of their Renegades brought back to stand trial. beyond that, Heaven (as far as canon says [or more specifically, neglects to say]), doens't even investigate rumors of Grigori having Fallen. i guess i'm getting at the point that striking the entire Choir from the Heavenly ranks seems very harsh, yet Dominic isn't dissonant over it, yet it seems so much suffering is caused if those Grigori Hearts a) were left with the respective Archangels they served or b) the Hearts, instead of being locked away, were shattered the way Renegades shatter their Hearts. Limbo every corporeal death... yeesh. it's not Hell, true, but it's darn close. on the flip side, i just bet most of the Grigori still engage in activities today which got them judged Outcast so many tens of thousands of years ago. -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 02:21:12 -0800 From: "Glenn Brown" Subject: IN> Ophis may be the Seneschal of Abel's Grave According to the Liber Castellorum, Abel's Grave in the Middle East is Baal's oldest tether. It doesn't say who the Seneschal is, just that "some say it is Ophis himself". The Seneschal's sole job is to keep the tether hidden and ward off mortals and celestials alike. The Seneschal's doing a good job, since only Baal ever visits the tether, and what he does there is anyone's guess. But Players characters *could* just stumble across it. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:24:21 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:00:29 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 9:22 AM +0000 12/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:54:41 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>>At 10:12 PM -0800 12/12/00, N O wrote: >>[snip] >>>>I wonder how you would do Malilim? >>> Hrm? >> presumably, a Lilim who thinks and acts like a Malakite, focused on >>obedience and honor, but with her Resonance for Needs still in place >>(further presumably used to detect whether someone would side with Heaven >>or Hell based on Needs detected). >Sounds like a close variant of the Destiny Choir Attunement for Brights... sort of, but with no Resonance shift or bonus for the Gifter: it's simply a matter of psychology, near as i can tell. of course, N O might speak up and clear up the matter (not like i'd mind or anything !). until then, that's my conjecture. >> oh, and point to ponder about Dark Bright (first, yes, i finished and >>liked it): i think Laurence very much does not single out trainees for >>spectacular performance, or even good performance, or even good >>effort--publicly. [But] >>is canny enough to know his soldiers--his swords, as he thinks of them--need >>to be polished with praise in private for the effort of training and fighting >>against Hell just as they need to be honed in practice and in battle. > >Oh, definitely. But, well, she wasn't finished -- she was still a trainee. you congratulate a child on a well-done homework assignment, even though the child hasn't passed the current semester, correct? you laud a superbly crafted science project despite the project itself not having won awards or a scholarship into MIT, yes? so i see it with Laurence's private counselling meetings for trainees: 'Dorthel, your parries are excellent, and your fellow trainees learn a lot from you;' 'Mordekei, your valor on the field are a boost to morale;' 'Chisel , your continued, devoted study does my heart good, and fills me with the hope that more of your Sisters will see the joy you feel in my Service. Let your love for God be your strength, so that in seeing you fight for Heaven, your Sisters and other demons in general will be swept up in your fervor to the devotion of God--or they'll face your good arm and sharp blade in honorable melee.' stuff like that. >Why should he get all overwrought over basic training? No other angel'd >ever needed it before... other Brights hadn't, or she is supposed to have been Laurence's First Bright Ever? or even Heaven's First Bright? i didn't get that from the set-up ('unusual for Laurence...', etc). reworked, it would be plausible as such. otherwise... i'm going with the notion that Laurence knows his angels the way parents know their children--one needs more praise than another, one needs more time, one needs more space. even with ordinary angels (within In Nomine, at any rate), there are bound to be Problem Cases, and after over a thousand years as an Archangel and as Commander of the Host, Laurence would know how to deal with these Problem Cases. he doesn't always have to be stern--they're all angels, after all--but he does need to find the root of the problem and fix it. Laurence also knows his weaknesses; when he can't win a fight, he asks Michael for help. if he couldn't get at the Truth, he'd surely go to Dominic, and if that didn't solve anything, he might try wringing answers out of Yves (good luck!), or better yet, asking Novalis for help. it's a stain upon his honor that he couldn't figure out the problem by himself, but Laurence is big enough to know that what he learns will be more valuable to! him than the failing that is asking for someone else's help--it will help him continue forging and honing more Swords, after all. >> so yes, i liked it, but i just wouldn't run a game that way :) >Oh, me neither. It does have a rather large dose of Bad Luck added in, >and it's kind of depressing. OTOH, if someone got an adventure seed out >of it... O:> certainly :) -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:49:28 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma > this isn't strictly Grigori-related, but from what i recall of >Outcasts, their Hearts are unbroken; Nope. "Outcasts are always Heartless"; direct quote. >they're still bound by their Superior's Dissonance Condidtions--from this, >my question arises: are Grigori out there still serving their former >Archangels' Words? The ones who want to get back in probably are, or at least trying to. > if a Grigori winds up vessal-killed, does it go into Trauma in >Heaven, get sucked into Limbo, or what? Limbo. Yes, every time. >were all the Grigori Hearts rouned up and locked in one of Dominic's >vaults with no interior doorknob? I imagine the shattered remains of the Outcasts' Hearts were left right where they were, or maybe moved to special containment in the Archangels' on Cathedrals. > i guess i'm getting at the point that striking the entire Choir >from the Heavenly ranks seems very harsh, yet Dominic isn't dissonant over >it, Here's a question for people to ponder. Dominic is Judgment embodied; how much of the Outcasting of the Watchers in his decision, and how much is it God's Will? Is some divine force physically preventing Archangels from repairing the Watchers' Hearts, or are the Archangels merely not doing so because Dominic's word is law and they don't want to pay any possible penalty? (I have no idea even what that penalty would be - a slap on the wrist from the Seraphim Council? a flogging from Michael? a Quest? Word-stripping, Force-stripping, and eternal servitude cleaning demon bits off Relics? execution? It's darn hard to work out people's responses on things when you don't know the costs they're likely to pay for doing it.) > -=|horsefly|=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:50:16 -0600 From: Adam Ensinger Subject: IN> Children of the Grigori A little something I whipped up for the now-defunct Grigori Net Book. Enjoy (or not). Adam Ensinger aensinger@sigecom.net Many years after Lucifer, Seraph Archangel of Light led his Rebellion against God and Fell into Hell, the newly minted Diabolicals found their way back to the Earth that had been forbidden them for so long. As the demons asserted their selfish natures against the humans so beloved by the Almighty, it became clear that Man would need more help than the seven other Choirs of angels could provide. And so the Grigori were created, to watch over humanity and shield them from the forces of Darkness. God made the Grigori the least Divine of the Choirs, most like mankind, as befitted their duty. Able to work within the Symphony and hear its notes easily, these angels were sent into the burgeoning centers of civilization to watch for demonic influences. And so the Watchers did their duty to God and Heaven for many years. However, as the least Divine Choir, the Grigori shared many traits with the humans they watched over, and slowly began to fall in love with them. Many took wives and husbands among the humans, able as they were to reproduce without resorting to the Songs of Fruition. Often the children born of these unions were normal, albeit special, individuals. Sometimes, though, a terrible creature was the result, one of the Nephallim. It was the advent of the Nephillim that caused Archangel Dominic to try the Grigori for their sins. Angels of Stone and of Purity led the hunt for these vicious monsters as their parents were tried and Cast Out. Lost in all of the uproar were the seemingly normal offspring of the Watchers. Unlike their Celestial parents, the Children of the Grigori are mortal, albeit long-lived, beings. What separates them from the rest of humanity, however, is the makeup of their Forces. All true (ie. full blooded) Children of the Grigori mature into six Force beings. Many have the potential for even more Forces. Also as a result of their heritage, the true Children gain an awareness of the notes of the Symphony upon gaining their sixth Force, the ability to learn the Symphony's Corporeal Songs, and the ability to consciously direct their Essence. However, being human, they cause no Disturbance by their actions, except when spending Essence or performing one of the Symphony’s Songs. It isn’t easy being one of the Children, despite the advantages they have over normal humans. Many of them are ignorant of their true nature, and the Symphony’s sounds washing over them day and night cause many to go insane. Those that are able to cope with all of Creation sounding throughout their being become talented musicians and artists. Almost without exception, the Children turn up at events caused by Celestials, drawn by the disturbances that result from intervention. Many times, this leads agents from both sides of the War to assume that they are Soldiers, putting them under scrutiny from the forces of Heaven and Hell. Children who are aware of their lineage tend to band together and support one another, realizing that Heaven considers them anathema, and Hell would only seek to corrupt and/or destroy them. This does not mean that they shy away from Celestial activities; on the contrary, they tend to keep close tabs on known angels or demons in the area, continuing the duty given their parents millennia ago. They are very careful to avoid detection, however. The Children view Heaven’s treatment of their parents as an unjust persecution, and Hell’s agents as selfish, conniving beings better left alone, lest one be tempted to Darkness. These groups of aware Children form small intelligence gathering cells, watching for influence from both sides of the War and working to limit their impact on human lives. While not, strictly speaking, opposed to Heaven’s goals, the Children tend to believe in the Free Will of man and work to preserve that Will. Those with influence, for instance, will work against the Roles of angels and demons both, if it is determined that the particular Celestial is overly meddlesome in human affairs. If their efforts against a Celestial’s Role is not effective, they will occasionally tip off an agent from the other side, given what they know about the Celestials in a given area. This is always done as anonymously as possible, sometimes through an unwitting mundane, sometimes through calls from pay phones. Occasionally they may act to contact one of the very few remaining Grigori for help, especially if they are acting against a Diabolical. Only as a last resort will the Children act directly or violently against a Celestial, since doing so would jeopardize the secrecy they so highly value. In short, the Children of the Grigori walk a fine line in the War between Heaven and Hell. They desire secrecy and anonymity, yet are driven to investigate Celestial interventions. They seem to serve Heaven, but act against angels as often as demons. Their goals remain mysterious to both sides. Perhaps only the Grigori can answer the many questions about their blessed offspring. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:52:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Supermarket Adventure Bwahahahaha! I'm waiting for a chance to run this one -- I promise to let you know how it turns out. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Minor Choir of Yves??? - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Ok first i would like to say a huuuuuuge thankyou to all of you for > the help > you've given me. > > Here's my payment to you. Our little Cassie... all grown up... writing up Minor Choirs... it makes me so proud (sniff)! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:01:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Personae - --- Jonathan Walton wrote: > Beautiful job there, Mike. And an interesting concept to boot. The > resonance for temperary roles was sheer genius. Thank you, thank you. > Now . . . how to transport this to the Steampunk setting that I'm > currently > playing with . . . ? Anarchistic, anti-establishment, > temperary-role-making servitors of Nybbas? I don't see why not :) > > They're not only everywhere, they're everyone :) [shudder] Now that's a scary concept. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:03:48 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright At 10:24 PM +0000 12/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > other Brights hadn't, or she is supposed to have been >Laurence's First Bright Ever? or even Heaven's First Bright? i >didn't get that from the set-up ('unusual for Laurence...', etc). >reworked, it would be plausible as such. I think this may slip around what I felt was one of the defining assumptions. This time, Laurence bypassed the system in place for Brights, out of his driving Need for Brights in the War. Remember, he has requisitioned them all, and gotten few if any. The Seraphim Council decides where they best would serve, he doesn't. Well, this time he recruited one. I rather get the feeling that he sidestepped normal procedures to do so, so that the Council's deliberations were pro forma -- she was so driven to serve Laurence, after all.... So add to bad luck and lack of Bright psychology a certain dose of hubris, and reaping that which is sown, save that the tragedy is for this Bright child of Hell who sought Heaven, and could not survive what was asked of her. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:05:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Why not a Mercurian of Fire? Or more to the point, a Reliever of > Fire, who seeks to fledge (earn his wings) but has earned the > Mercurian of Fire attunement. >[snip] > But, it's a textbook perfect intercession to prevent someone from > inflicting self-cruelty. Destiny still works if one surmises that George still had even bigger good deeds in him. And considering the way that he brought that town together, Stone isn't unreasonable. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:09:10 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Oh, no, not another Minor Band - --- EDG wrote: > At 07:56 PM 12/13/00, you wrote: > >Personae ("The Imposters") > > >... The level of the Role is equal to the Check Digit. > > What's the Status of the Role? Or can a Persona adopt a Role of any > status? D'oh! I knew I missed something. Oh well, seeing as Walk-ons can only adopt temporary Roles, I'd let them have any Status. If you feel you must limit it, the demon's Celestial Forces is a figure. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Angel of Conformity. [snip] > >The question is, how to make such an angel > >sympathetic? Sure, making him/her/it a righteous > >bast**d would be child's play, but that's too easy. > > > >What's the answer? I would start by exploring the reasons that people choose to conform. The Angel of Conformity probably wouldn't promote the negative aspects of that Word (i.e. peer pressure, fear of rejection), but might be a major proponent of solidarity and esprit de corps. Which, of course, makes Stone a natural choice for AA. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:38:03 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. >>I dropped this one off on the Pyramid boards, but not >>all of you s u b scribe, so... >> >>Difficult concept #23/a4: >> >>Angel of Conformity. >> >>Easy to stick into Stone's crowd, or maybe even the >>Sword (Judgement, despite first impressions, wouldn't >>be that good a call, IMHO - or maybe just >>IMHypotheticalC). That's not the question. >> >>The question is, how to make such an angel >>sympathetic? Sure, making him/her/it a righteous >>bast**d would be child's play, but that's too easy. >> >>What's the answer? >> >>I dunno. >> >>:) >> >>Moe Well, a lot depends on how you see the world. Myself, I think conformity is underrated to a certain degree. Weird people attract attention, but only the occasional one gets anything done, and I have the private opinion that of those who do, a lot of them had luck, and the rest would have gotten *more* done if they knew how to work with people. Or, for that matter, the System. I have no idea whether SJGames puts out a worldbook where you're allowed to play one of the characters whose life is dedicated to supporting the System, using the System for all it's worth, and advancing within the System to a position of considerably enhanced power, but if they do, and I had it, I'd play one of those guys, and gleefully laugh every time I offed one of the little ants who thought he could take us. >:^) (MiB have a sense of humor. You just don't want to be the joke.) Er-hem. At any rate... Let's start from the top. Why would the Seraphim Council see a need to bestow the Word of Conformity in the first place? Most people have the impression that most *other* people are sheep, and Conformity hardly needs increasing. I can see two reasons: 1.) Conformity is advancing, in a demonic sense -- it is moving towards the dystopian "masses of interchangeable, disposable people" that demons see humanity as anyway. In this situation, the job of the Angel of Conformity would be to redirect the concept into a more angelic tone -- trying to work into the concept connotations like "harmony" and "cooperation," rather than "cookie-cutter" and "cloned." Its purpose would be to promote the idea of the Whole (the System, the Nation, the Species) as a useful tool for the common good and an ideal worthwhile as a goal, and downplay perceptions of conformity as limiting("it actually frees you to do more, since people aren't wary of you constantly") or imposed from above("people naturally flock together, it's not some big conspiracy"), especially for purposes of controlling the masses("Come on. Have you ever tried to control a mob?"). This kind of angel might work very well under Jean (who I'm sure would much prefer a predictable humanity to the current state of affairs), and perhaps primarily target Nybbas' constant bombardment of people's minds with tapioca, lowest common denominator entertainment and 6th-grade level politics and news. 2.) Conformity is retreating, leading to chaos and instability, as power structures break down, authority is going unrecognized, and people are finding it difficult to get a grasp on a norm that will allow them to proceed with their lives. A market made up of niche markets? Yuck. A government with a special program for every remotely plausible interest or victim group? Blyech. On the smaller scale, a group of ten people is going to get their job done if they all know their job without trying to take over. This kind of angel could work well under several different Superiors, but the one that keeps springing to mind for me is Christopher. A major task of children growing up is to assimilate the norms of their society and learn to work with others -- an angel who dedicated his existence to developing techniques to help children do this would probably be quite willing to extend his reach to adults who really should have learned how to stand in a straight line when they were five. William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:09:23 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:36:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. >Moe, you're twisted. >Now write up the alligators. Not much to say. They're alligators. They're albinos. There's a lot of them. Nothing special about them at all, really. Their _riders_, on the other hand... Moe Croatoans (With apologies to Harlan Ellison) There are things about humanity that no one likes to discuss. From the outside, the life cycle of mortals is fairly straightforward. They get born, they live and then they die. If they've achieved their destiny, they go to Heaven. If they've met their Fate, they go to Heaven. If they do both, or neither, they either reincarnate or disband. Sometimes they spend a little time getting where they need to go, but there's a place for all, and everyone's got his or her place. It's simple, neat and inexorable. Mostly. The problem is that sometimes you hear stories. Which side you're on is irrelevant: this is an urban legend among both angels and demons. The central theme is that there's _some_ kind of race living underneath the humans' cities: other than that, the details vary enormously. Nobody's ever admitted to seeing one, but a friend of a friend of a friend did. It's probably not real: the most common description is so obviously unsuitable for a corporeal lifeform. They're describing what sounds like a bizarre cross between a baby and an adult, after all. Just what down there is there for them to eat? How can they have a tribe without a language? Why haven't ordinary mortals seen any, ever? It's always a demon or angel or Soldier or Sorcerer that encounters a tribe, and watches as they silently go about their incomprehensible business. That should make anyone suspicious. Plus, there's the entire bit with the alligators. Kobal has so much as admitted that he made the whole 'alligators in the sewers' legend from whole cloth: there aren't any down there. There's certainly not any being used as riding steeds. No, it's just a story, and nothing more. But, if you happen to have a Servitor of Children in the group when this fable is unearthed, watch him or her. He won't join in on the slightly nervous laughter, and if the subject doesn't change she'll eventually make some innocuous excuse and leave. Follow him, if you really want to get an informed opinion. Try getting her drunk. If you do, he might just tell you that the Children's Servitors have noticed that freshly minted souls who die before a certain point in the gestation period... disappear. It's as if a human's first gestation really locks the soul into Creation: interrupt it, and it can't align with the Symphony. But they don't disband: that would be noticeable. The Servitor will then tell you, in a firm (but usually deeply drunken) voice, that of _course_ those souls must go directly to the Higher Heavens. She'll be very emphatic about that. But if he sees a manhole cover while telling you this, he'll shudder... ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:15:17 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Sock Hop (with occasional gunplay) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:28:14 -0500 From: "Malachai Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Sock Hop (with occasional gunplay) >Why do I get the feeling that every time the Eighth >Virtue is in L.A. that the turnout is, well let's >just say that a backroom probably won't cut it. They must not do it very often, even after the False Trumpet: well, maybe they do. But yeah, it's standing room only (except when someone wanders in and mentions demonspawn. I made my girlfriend laugh for half a minute when, in an effort to explain the 8th Virtue in terms that made sense for a AD&D DM, I called them "wandering monsters"). :) >Malachai >Malakim of I Was Just Out For a Drink With My >Choirmates There's a Word there. I can _smell_ it. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:46:11 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:59:24 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl >And now you know why (in addition to their general >outlook towards all things demonic, which is bad >enough) why a hunter-killer pack of War servitors >showing up is generally regarded as a *really* bad >day for demons, even worse than having a squad of >Swordies land on your roof. (Although the Swordies >are generally considered to be royally bad news as >well... especially the ones with that damned Hunt >attunement. Even if you run, you just can't rid of >them.) >Hrm... mixed-Superior specialized hunter-killer >wolfpacks... mmmmmm... Add someone with the Seraph of Flowers attunement, and it just gets better and better. Seeing as Novalis doesn't seem the type to strip Attunements off of Servitors who want to work somebody else, that might not even be too hard to arrange. Slightly off the specific topic, I've noticed just how _hideously_ your average Flowerchild can ruin a WoD parahuman's day. Actually, with the possible exception of Mercurian of Flowers, her Choir Attunements all have excellent combat applications: Seraphim: walk up to the demon, grab him with one arm, cut his throat with the other. Resistance is futile. Cherub: Tap. "You're healed. Go fight." Tap. "You're healed. Go fight." Tap. "You're healed. Go fight." You'll need a vessel/6, and the otherwise useless Mercurian of Flowers to heal you up, but wait: he _does_ have a use! Ofanite: Dive into underbrush, jump up behind demon, slit throat. Dance for two hours and repeat. Elohim: Never hide in a forest from an Elohite of Flowers. Ever. He'll find you... and seeing as the Seraph Attunement is unrestricted, guess what happens next. Malakite: Once she catches up to you, pretty soon you'll be so entangled in plant life that you're in range of the unrestricted, turning-out-to-have-great-possibilities-for-abuse-Seraph-of-Flowers attunement she's purchased. Kyriotate: _you_ try fighting a tree. Especially when it shoves poisonous berries down your throat. Or just picks you up and falls with you on the bottom. Mercurian: Gee, Soldiers can learn Corporeal Songs, and they can buy up their Perception, and healing people is nonviolent, and the amount of healing done partially depends on the check digit, right? Nothing but Flowers: Ambush central. Crown of Joy: Or, "How to turn 1 Essence into 3 Free attacks" (assuming 3 Corporeal Forces) Sure, it takes a half-hour to prepare, but what the heck. Conclusions (tongue in cheek, if you haven't guessed): 1) Seraph of Flowers should really be made Restricted. :) 2) We've all been fundamentally wrong. Novalis bans unnecessary violence because otherwise her Servitors would be killing machines. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:52:06 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:46 PM Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl [snip] > 2) We've all been fundamentally wrong. Novalis bans > unnecessary violence because otherwise her Servitors > would be killing machines. :) Hrm. This provokes some serious thought on the topic. Is it just me, or could the Flowers attunements stand just a *little* reworking? For one thing, Seraph of Flowers should have the standard limitation I've seen on "peace-aura" type powers in other games -- "This works only so long as you're not violent either. If you or someone else attacks the person you're holding helpless with this attunement, All Bets Are Off." IOW, people under Seraph of Flowers *should* be allowed to hit back in self-defense... the whole point of this attunement is to keep violent people still so you can reason with them, not so you can have fun beating on their helpless bodies. Not to mention, of course, that misusing a Flowers attunement to foster violence -- especially violence against those unable to resist! -- is probably about as safe as misusing Dominic's Incarnate Law attunement to enhance your ability to get guilty people off on legal technicalities... i.e., one really fast Attunement-stripping comin' right up. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:06:40 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement >Is it just me, or >could the Flowers attunements stand just a *little* reworking? > No, it's not just you. When I ran one-shot adventures, I simply didn't allow the attunement. I think it's outrageous. >For one thing, Seraph of Flowers should have the standard limitation I've >seen on "peace-aura" type powers in other games -- "This works only so long >as you're not violent either. If you or someone else attacks the person >you're holding helpless with this attunement, All Bets Are Off." > >IOW, people under Seraph of Flowers *should* be allowed to hit back in >self-defense... the whole point of this attunement is to keep violent >people >still so you can reason with them, not so you can have fun beating on their >helpless bodies. I agree, but that's not what it says as far as I can see. > >Not to mention, of course, that misusing a Flowers attunement to foster >violence -- especially violence against those unable to resist! -- is >probably about as safe as misusing Dominic's Incarnate Law attunement to >enhance your ability to get guilty people off on legal technicalities... >i.e., one really fast Attunement-stripping comin' right up. > This probably means that Novalis doesn't give it out to anyone but her Servitors. And Novalis may be a lot of things, but she's not stupid; if one of her Servitors wants to work for Michael, David, etc. she would certainly remove that attunement as part of the "exit interview." Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.