From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Dec 15 22:24:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18259 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:24:39 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA30021 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:23:18 -0600 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:23:18 -0600 Message-Id: <200012160423.WAA30021@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1973 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1973 In this digest: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. Re: IN> brief questions Re: IN> brief questions Re: IN> Grey Celestials IN> Giant Sized Plot Seed Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl Re: IN> Sun-Cross Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) IN> re> Dark Bright... Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) IN> Gabriel's attunements Re: IN> re> Dark Bright... IN> RE: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 Re: IN> re> Dark Bright... Re: IN> Gabriel's attunements Re: IN> re> Dark Bright... Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright Re:IN> Gabriel's attunements Re:IN> RE: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 Re: IN> Someone's done this right? Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:13:39 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Anderson" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 4:06 AM Subject: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement [snip] > I agree, but that's not what it says as far as I can see. 'Fraid so. I was talking about how I thought it should work, not as to how it's actually written now. PS -- to whoever's doing Novy's upcoming Superiors writeup, whenever that may be -- a footnote on this? - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:32:18 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. From: "Maurice Lane" > > Croatoans > (With apologies to Harlan Ellison) OW! OW! OWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!! MAKE THE HURTING STOP!!! (Great work, Moe!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:47:01 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine >At 7:20 -0500 12/14/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >nice . . . I notice the conversion of Master of the Grantie Hand is cool, > >not merely a damage bonus. :) > >It seemed reasonable to explain *why* they get a damage bonus, and GURPS >already had some neat mechanics in the martial arts stuff. > > >I assume "Symphonic Knowledge" to be a new power in and of itself in >GURPS > >In Nomine. > >So what are you doing digging around in the GURPS mechanics for GURPS IN >if you don't have the book, hmmmm....? Because (a) its free (b) I'm familiar with enough GURPS and In Nomine material to evaluate this for myself (c) I will own it soon enough (d) I can and (e) I'm curious. >There are actually 4 new core celestial powers in GIN: Symphonic Knowledge >(basically anything that's Perception-based that taps the Symphony), >Symphonic Influence (basically all the demonic "force your Symphony on >others" >powers, plus some angelic attunements), Symphonic Link (mostly Cherub/Djinn >resonance), and Body-Hopping (core of Kyrio/Shedite resonance). Gotcha. >And then there's a lot of number-fudging with those. To tell the truth, >mostly we just figured out what the attunements *ought* to cost, and >then fudged the numbers around that. ha ha ha, yeah, I can see that. The core power costs correspond >roughly to about the 90th percentile of the attunement costs derived from >them (though I did nothing this formal to work it out). > > >Hrm . . . I assume the high power cost of some of these powers reflect >that > >fact that their duration is until the user terminates the effects of the > >power. > >Mostly it reflects that powerful supernatural abilities shouldn't be cheap >in GURPS, GURPS Supers aside. What about Unusual Background and the fact that: IQ 10 (0pts) Telepathy 2 (10pts) Telereceive 10 (4pts) can touch a person and read their thoughts for only about 15 points? I dunno, while that lacks the sheer range powers have in In Nomine, it's a lot more powerful in terms of depth. Also, because Telereceive is a skill, not an ability per se, raising skill level is pretty cheap. I dunno. I'd say the duration and long range of In Nomine abilities would justify their point cost. > >I like the additional ability granted to all angels of Jordi, and the one > >granted to all angels of Micheal, and Novalis, and Andrealphus, >especially > >Belial. > >They generally seemed to fit the theme of those Superior's Servitors, >and don't really contradict anything in the IN mechanics. Oh, totally. In Andre's case, >it isn't really an additional ability, but some mechanics-munging required >by how I implemented Andre's dissonance condition. It seemed unreasonable >that Lust Servitors should be *penalized* for Sex Appeal and Erotic Art >due to their dissonance condition. Ha ha ha, that'd be downright silly. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:01:17 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement >>Not to mention, of course, that misusing a Flowers >>attunement to foster violence -- especially violence >>against those unable to resist! -- is probably about >>as safe as misusing Dominic's Incarnate Law >>attunement to enhance your ability to get guilty >>people off on legal technicalities... >>i.e., one really fast Attunement-stripping comin' >>right up. No argument there, Chuck. >This probably means that Novalis doesn't give it out >to anyone but her Servitors. And Novalis may be a >lot of things, but she's not stupid; if one of her >Servitors wants to work for Michael, David, etc. she >would certainly remove that attunement as part of the >"exit interview." And no argument there either, Janet. Makes perfect sense. Alas, I've thought of a possible loophole, as the proto-seed below shows. Feel free to rip holes in it (or at least recognize the munchkinism for what it is when a player tries to slip it by you). :) Moe Salvage Rights It would seem that Michael and David might be listening to Novalis, after all, in their own indubitable fashion. For the last few years, the two Archangels have been actively seeking out Remnants... of either side. When they find one, they provide the needed Celestial Forces to repair the shattered celestial. Repaired demons are given a legitimate shot at trying to Redeem, and actually the two have gotten some good results there. Reclaimed angels are, of course, free to return to their old Superior's service, but that's fairly rare. I mean, wouldn't _you_ rather stay with the guys who rescued you from a living hell, rather than go back to somebody who obviously couldn't have cared less? The other Archangels don't precisely see the point, but if they want to do good works, the rest of the Host is certainly not going to disapprove. It's really rather sweet, actually. Of _course_ there's an ulterior motive: this is Michael we're talking about, after all (although, to be fair, the two have found a certain satisfaction in recovering that was once thought lost, and all that). What the other Archangels haven't quite realized yet is that David and Michael are thus getting at least some access to all sorts of Attunements, Songs and information that are normally closed to them. A salvaged Remnant is in an odd place in celestial society: not considered to be the same person that they were before they were crippled, but not considered entirely different, either. They're also so rare that nobody's ever bothered to work out whether they need to actually ask their old Superior for permission to seek another's service. So, when Novalis finally works out that Michael has a whole bunch of Seraphim of War misusing (as she sees it) their old Seraph of Flowers Attunement, or Jean notices how many Servitors of Stone seem to have Generator these days, they may not be able to do much about it... ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:23:52 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. - --On Thursday, December 14, 2000 3:58 PM -0500 Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Marc Bowden wrote: > >> An *angel* of comformity? An angel of Tattvamasi or >> Gemeinschaftsgefuhl I can see, but conformity has so many negative >> connotations beyond its definition that I can't see where it'd be >> more celestial than infernal. > > Could you translate "tattvamasi" and "gemeinschaftsgefuhl"? > Other than by "conformity." > > Earl Sorry, I went off into psychiatric babble for a minute. "Gemeinschaftsgefuhl" is a German term which describes the feeling of belonging to all mankind, of having a place in humanity. "Tat tva masi" is one of the four Hindu Vedas, and can be loosely translated as the idea of being linked to all people by being linked to God by carrying a facet of Him as their souls; in IN terms, by being made of celestial forces drawn from the Symphony. (Any Vedics in the audience may now begin roasting me for oversimplifying.) Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Cursed by a well-rounded theological education.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:28 +0000 From: Kay Dekker Subject: Re: IN> brief questions > 1- what is the hebrew or latin word for _epiphany_ *smile* Why not leave it as the good Greek word that it is? The Hebrew I don't know: in Latin, it's _patefactio_, a feminine noun. Or, if you like, _revelatio_ (which is similarly feminine), but that's more of a "uncovering what has been covered up" rather than _epiphanein_'s simple "making visible, revealing, displaying", of which _patefactio_ is a closer equivalent. Kay - -- "Caesar, the Zeta Reticulans having been repelled, fortified the spaceport with walls and ditches." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:40 +0000 From: Kay Dekker Subject: Re: IN> brief questions Michael wrote: > I don't know the word for epiphany, but the Hebrew for a revelatory > word direct from God is rhema (sp?). Or I could be a bit off and > that's Greek. Either way, I hope it helps. OK, I'm not up on Koine Greek, being more of a Classics bod, but _to rhema_ in Greek is more of "a saying or motto or expression or phrase", or, as a term in grammar, "a verb". Kay - -- "Caesar, the Zeta Reticulans having been repelled, fortified the spaceport with walls and ditches." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:40:09 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Grey Celestials On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 07:30:20AM +0000, Perry Lloyd wrote: > > > There are rumored to exist celestial beings who are not bound by a > > > choir or > > > band, who exist outside of heaven and hell. Who are they? What are > > > they capable of? Do they exist except as a rumor? > > > > There are many such beings. They're called Ethereals. > > If you're saying that Ethereals are Celestial beings, well, I'd have to say > that you're wrong. I'm talking about beings native to the > /celestial/ plane You've fallen victim to YHWHist propaganda. The Celestial plane is just a region of the Ethereal plane that YHWH has somehow closed off to ethereals other than his pantheon. > and who are capable of actually competing with Angels and Demons, as opposed > to Ethereals, who (correct my if I'm wrong) can *never* destroy a Celestial > because they can't engage in Celestial combat because they do not possess a > Celestial form. No, it's possible to engage in Celestial combat in the Marches. In fact, even mortals can be attacked Celestially in the Marches (don't have my books with me; reference is in _The Marches_). Most residents of the Marches prefer to stick to Ethereal combat because it's less deadly, but you can bet that if a hunting party of Unseelie Sidhe happen on a lone Tsayadite, they'll try for the permanent solution. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:57:12 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Giant Sized Plot Seed Hiya all, i got something else that i'd like to share. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Plot Seed Giant size problem. Abri stood there, here lilim form clothed in a vessel, albeit an attractive vessel. She stood there, watching the hillside, counting under her breath. ‘101 102 103 104 105 106’ As the air frosted her breath her pet sorcerer continued the incantation, calling out loudly the names of lillith, bran, bebinn & cymidei, prancing around madly. ‘116 117 118 119 now…’ Abri whispered as she spun essence from herself and in to the sorcerer so that the ritual would be complete. The human dropped to the ground, blood dripping from his ears, eyes, nose and lips, dead, overloaded from the essence forced in to his body unable to cope with it. As he crashed to the ground a thunderous boom struck out across the landscape, in the distance a storm gathered and raged, lightening parking across the sky, spearing down striking a line in the ground that stopped at the form of the dead sorcerer, then one mighty boom and the body of sorcerer and the vessel were vaporised, a huge crater left as the only testament to the portal to the place where the giants fled to, to escape Uriel. Then the earth moaned and moved as five strange rock like fingers broke free from the surface and stood like ominous accusing pointers to the heavens. For several days the storm raged, and a veritable forest of stone like pillars were free of the ground. Many humans came to see the stone forest that appeared the scientists said it was a freak plate shift, but a wonderful sight none the less. The new-agers said it was mother earth, reaching out and showing where to worship her, so in their praise they sent essence, unknowingly. A lone Grigori knew differently, he knew what was about to stand and shake the hill mud from its bodies, bellowing in rage, calling for the head of uriel and the death of those that hunted them in to hiding. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System Mechanics. Giants. Treat like Ethereal spirits whom are able to get vessels. However, due to their sheer size triple the body points that they get to attribute the amount of bashing they need to take before being cast back to the ethereal plane. Also, when it comes to them hurting things, simply add 10 to the check digit. (Ouch) It seems best if they have 7 forces, 6 is too few and 8-9 is too many. Create them like you would a celestial, but bear in mind they would have no knowledge of the modern things, also they should not have access to celestial songs and the song level limit should be the same as their Ethereal forces. - -==--=--=--==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---===-==-=--=--=-=-=-=--=-=-=--=-=-=-= Ok, that seems to cover everything there is for them. If they ave appeared in any of the books then totally disregard this mail unless you like it. I only have access to a couple of the IN books so I don’t know a great deal about it, but I’m a fast learner. I hope you enjoy this. The more you like the more I’ll do. Cass "Happiness is a chemical imbalance of the minds natural state" -Jean "So imbalance me baby" -Novalis _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:51:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma - -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > i guess i'm getting at the point that striking the entire Choir from the Heavenly ranks seems very harsh, yet Dominic isn't dissonant over it Well, canon is so far deliberately sparse on detail about this, but if you want to go by original sources (in this case, the pseudepigraphical Books of Enoch), then there were only 200 Grigori ever created, and they all bound themselves by oath to stand or fall together, which could explain Dominic's lack of dissonance. Their leader, by the way, was one Semyaza. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:12:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl How does Novalis feel about violence against demons and undead? As I recall the main writeup, she wants to offer mercy first, even to demons and so one presumes also to undead, but after it's been rejected? (As it almost always is.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:21:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) Maurice Lane wrote: > Repaired demons are given a legitimate > shot at trying to Redeem, and actually the two have > gotten some good results there. Wouldn't a remnant repaired by an Archangel automatically be an angel, not a demon? In the GM's Guide, one of the few restrictions on Superiors is that they CAN'T make servitors of the opposite side, and this reclamation work is really making an angel, using the remnant of another angel as raw material -- sort of like organ donation. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:25:57 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl She asks again and again and again..... Then if the demon/undead turns violent, i guess there is no recourse but to return its forces to the sympony. Cass "Oh, you mean i'm not meant to be standing inside the circle of protection mr tchortxzachianlin?" - -sound of suddenly dead sorcerer- >How does Novalis feel about violence against demons and undead? >As I recall the main writeup, she wants to offer mercy first, >even to demons and so one presumes also to undead, but after it's >been rejected? (As it almost always is.) > >Earl _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:11:21 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Sun-Cross *William reads the Seraph resonance table* ** *William goes off to meditate on Truth and Redemption...* ...and some of the other stuff. I can see how a good editor helps a writer do their job, Beth. I appreciate all the help so far; I'll quit doing drafts in public now. You've got a line to edit. ;^) William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:24:28 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) A quick note -- as I understood it, the angel (or otherwise) with the Seraph of Flowers attunement is at the epicenter of the effect. This means that they are the last person in the world who is ever going to be getting violent. Ever. At least, this is how I understand it. Sorry to all those Malakim, but no, if you have the attunement, you've also just adopted lifetime pacifism . . . Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:02:30 -0000 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: IN> re> Dark Bright... >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:19:57 -0500 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Re: IN> Dark Bright... >At 6:15 PM -0800 12/12/00, Kris Overstreet wrote: >>At 03:33 PM 12/12/00 -0500, you wrote: >>>This is Moe's fault. He said he likes to read Dark stuff. >>> >>>:It's also an insomnia special. >> >>Nitpick: I don't think Laurence would ever combine the suaveness and >>stupidity, the discipline and dishonour that would be necessary for this. >>He's intentionally misled a prospective Bright, IMHO. >Oh, sure. But it's partly _her_ fault, though. We're talking someone >who jumped into it with serious expectation problems. I don't think he >_intentionally_ misled her, just that he didn't understand what she >expected. And vice versa. She's just as "guilty" in this as anyone else. >If only she'd spoken up a little.... If only, if only. >(Suave? Suave? Who needs suave when you've got THE best Good View in >Heaven? Ahem. O:> ) It does seem a little bit much like Ivan Vorpatril, Archangel of the Sword. Down to the worst possible things going wrong. Just this one is slightly less competent. Worse of course if true this would make Miles Archangel of War... Some of the other possibilities go down well or at least in a manner appropriate for causing panic among PC's. Mark as Marc, Bothari as Khalid, Ekaterin as Novalis, Cordelia as Dominic, Aral as David, Simon Illyan as Yves, Cavillo as Belial. I think I better stop, The image of running Lucifer as Fletchir Giaja is becoming far too tempting. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:12:10 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) At 6:24 PM +0000 12/15/00, Genevieve Cogman wrote: > >At least, this is how I understand it. Sorry to all those Malakim, but no, >if you have the attunement, you've also just adopted lifetime pacifism . . . I would not define it as 'always on' for a Malakite, but would have the Malakite affected by it while it *was* on. I'd also require a darn good backstory for why a Malakite had this particular attunement in the first place. A Mercurian, sure. But a Malakite? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:17:09 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> Gabriel's attunements Gabriel's attunements aren't restricted. If (say) a Mercurian of Fire receives the Ofanite's attunement, how would a GM handle that effectively? Allow the Mercurian to detect cruelty on the run at will? Always on? Force the Mercurian to pursue the cruel person and punish them or receive Dissonance? My suspicion is the Servitor's Dissonance conditions would apply to his Choir's Attunement only. So, while a Mercurian with the Ofanite attunement might 'ping' for cruelty for every fugitive he passes, he's still only bound to help the next *self* cruel human he sees after finishing with one. Yes? No? Maybe? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:18:26 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> re> Dark Bright... At 7:02 PM +0000 12/15/00, Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > >It does seem a little bit much like Ivan Vorpatril, Archangel of the >Sword. Down to the worst possible things going wrong. > >Just this one is slightly less competent. > >Worse of course if true this would make Miles Archangel of War... > >Some of the other possibilities go down well or at least in a manner >appropriate for causing panic among PC's. Mark as Marc, Bothari as >Khalid, Ekaterin as Novalis, Cordelia as Dominic, Aral as David, Simon >Illyan as Yves, Cavillo as Belial. > >I think I better stop, The image of running Lucifer as Fletchir Giaja >is becoming far too tempting. What *are* you talking about? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:20:44 -0000 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: IN> RE: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 > From: "Maurice Lane" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl > [snip] > > 2) We've all been fundamentally wrong. Novalis bans > > unnecessary violence because otherwise her Servitors > > would be killing machines. :) > > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:06:40 > From: "Janet Anderson" > Subject: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement > > >For one thing, Seraph of Flowers should have the standard > limitation I've > >seen on "peace-aura" type powers in other games -- "This > works only so long > >as you're not violent either. If you or someone else > attacks the person > >you're holding helpless with this attunement, All Bets Are Off." > > > >IOW, people under Seraph of Flowers *should* be allowed to > hit back in > >self-defense... the whole point of this attunement is to > keep violent That's one of the reasons for the will roll. > >people > >still so you can reason with them, not so you can have fun > beating on their > >helpless bodies. > > I agree, but that's not what it says as far as I can see. Seraphim of Flowers are in their own vicinity. therefore they are affected and must make a will roll to act violent, just like every one else. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:25:49 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> re> Dark Bright... Bujold-IN comparisions! Yay! (I do this all the time...) >Some of the other possibilities go down well or at least in a manner >appropriate for causing panic among PC's. Mark as Marc, Bothari as >Khalid, Bothari as David. Think about it. Large. Massive. Taciturn. Absolutely devoid of a 'softer' side, yet unshakably devoted to his friends. And ever since an earlier (and very distressing to him) episode/period of berserker violence, has placed himself under an absolutely strict restriction of "Don't kill them unless they're trying to kill you or yours first"... because he *doesn't* trust his judgement unless he holds to an unambiguous set of hard-and-fast rules re: not going out on the offensive... It doesn't *exactly* map, but little does. >Ekaterin as Novalis, Cordelia is Novalis. "It's always more important to put people before principles?" Her unconditional love of pretty much *anybody* that isn't absolutely Beyond The Pale, even those who were originally unlovable by everybody else? Her ability to forgive her rapist even in the act? Of course, there's also the infamous 'shopping trip', but hey -- even the gentlest of Cherubs will, if pushed *far enough*, "show her thorns". (And goodness knows that the general consensus of the IN'ers seems to be that although Novalis is the nicest of them all, if anything so hideously wrong comes along that it actually manages to make *her* get angry... RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!) About the only other way I can see Cordelia mapping is to Yves -- Lord knows that over and over again she's been the key catalyst in bringing the entire planet of Barrayar to its Destiny, at a time when it seemed inevitable that it would all fall to its Fate... and she is definitely the wisest person in the whole darn series. Hrm. Damn, any other fictional character is lucky to map to one Superior, and Cordelia's so darned huge that she can map to two of the majors at once and still have room left over. Whew! Oh, that's right, we're discussing who Ekaterin is. Hrm. Hrrrrrrrrm... doesn't quite exactly map to any Superior, but if I had to... ah, I've got it. Ekaterin is Blandine. (Think about it. She's waited and suffered patiently in a trap of loving someone who has long since fallen. But when that weight is finally lifted from her [1], she immediately starts making the world around her more beautiful. Ekaterin "does beauty", remember? And she's also quiet, sad (well, *was* sad, now she's ecstatic), and beautiful...) As a minor note, I'd like to point out that if there's anybody better suited for the role of Zadkiel than Drou, I'd like to know who she is. *g* >Aral as David Aral as Michael. Think about it. Who's the unbeatable old warhorse of the Vorkosiverse? Heck, Michael's trial/pardoning for Pride and "the Butcher of Komarr" is a rought map right there. >Simon Illyan as Yves Simon Illyan is Dominic, *exactly*. Right down to the *millimeter*. >Cavillo as Belial. Belial would be Prince Serg, to my mind. Raving out of control destruction, all impulse and no control. Cavillo is Alaemon -- twisted beyond twisted, cunning, paranoid, always had something up her sleeve, and so caught up in a web of lies and deceptions that at the very end, she outfoxed *herself*. >I think I better stop, The image of running Lucifer as Fletchir Giaja >is becoming far too tempting. Ooooooooooo... - -- Chuckg [1] The list's proposed "Courtly Love" saga comes to mind at this point. What ever did happen with that, anyway? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 11:54:56 -0800 From: Eric Bertish Subject: Re: IN> Gabriel's attunements > My suspicion is the Servitor's Dissonance conditions would apply to > his Choir's Attunement only. So, while a Mercurian with the Ofanite > attunement might 'ping' for cruelty for every fugitive he passes, > he's still only bound to help the next *self* cruel human he sees > after finishing with one. That's how I would run it, yes. Though I don't know why a Fire would want anything other than the Ofanite and Malakite attunements. Unless, of course, you use the additional abilities that were cut from the playtest prerelease.... (Seraphim have infravision, Kyriotates can inhabit fire, etc.) _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:13:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> re> Dark Bright... Whistling in the Dark wrote: > What *are* you talking about? They are matching Superiors to the main characters in the Vorkosigan novels of Lois McMasters Bujold. Her protagonist is Miles Vorkosigan. The novels *look* like military SF, but are really about bio-tech, on the S side of SF, and about a fascinating array of (mostly) likeable characters on the other. She's one of the few authors I will buy automatically when a new title comes out. Earl ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 22:41:36 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:03:48 -0500 Whistling in the Dark wrote: [snip] well argued, Eric. good points, and nice show of drama. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 23:28:58 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> Gabriel's attunements On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:17:09 -0500 Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Gabriel's attunements aren't restricted. If (say) a Mercurian of Fire [snip] >My suspicion is the Servitor's Dissonance conditions would apply to >his Choir's Attunement only. [snip] agreed. otherwise there's no benefit for anyone to be taking a Choir Attunement of Fire apart from a) their own b) the Ofanim attunement and c) the Malakim attunement. buying a new form of gaining Dissoance is just Sick and Wrong, which is why i'd never do that to a player, and would be severely annoyed at any GM who pulled that on me. "Next to hydrogen, stupidity is the most common element in the universe." --Harlan Ellison ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 23:33:41 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> RE: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:20:44 Adam Benedict Canning wrote: >Seraphim of Flowers are in their own vicinity. therefore they are >affected and must make a will roll to act violent, just like every one >else. yup. which is why Seraphim of Flowers, apart from Seraphim of Judgment, are the likeliest angels to have Wills higher than their Perceptions, to make resistance *possible* (GM: "You want to resist your own Seraph of Flowers Attunement, you have nine Forces, and you Will is six? You fail. Whose turn is it?"). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:49:51 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:49:41 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? >Omigod. > >What if Clarence is actually one of the few unFallen >Mercurians of Fear? Ooooooh. Well, what are you waiting for? Write up the Attunements. You might as well do Distinctions, too. Of course, none of that would make too much sense without the personality. Or the organization, come to think of it. We'll need both, please. Oh, heck. Just do the Heresy and be done with it, OK? Sheesh. ;) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:23:10 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine At 5:47 -0500 12/15/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>So what are you doing digging around in the GURPS mechanics for GURPS IN >>if you don't have the book, hmmmm....? > >Because (a) its free (b) I'm familiar with enough GURPS and In Nomine >material to evaluate this for myself (c) I will own it soon enough (d) I can >and (e) I'm curious. "and (f) fnord." (Quoth the Archangel.) And don't you know curiosity is dissonant, Citizen. Oops -- wrong game. (Maybe.) >>in GURPS, GURPS Supers aside. > >What about Unusual Background and the fact that: In the IN setting, it doesn't really make sense for celestials to have Unusual Background. Secret, yes. But not Unusual Background. >IQ 10 (0pts) >Telepathy 2 (10pts) >Telereceive 10 (4pts) > >can touch a person and read their thoughts for only about 15 points? But only half the time, and rarely with more than superficial surface-thought access. A really effective psi tends to require more like 30-50 points in psi powers, in my experience. >I dunno, while that lacks the sheer range powers have in In Nomine, it's a >lot more powerful in terms of depth. I wouldn't necessarily say it's more powerful than a Seraph or Mercurian's resonance. In fact, the first version of the IN power mechanics were mostly based on GURPS psi powers. It was a real mess, and they were generally *more* expensive than they are now, when all was said and done. SJ mercy-killed that version, thankfully. > Also, because Telereceive is a skill, >not an ability per se, raising skill level is pretty cheap. True. But celestial's skill levels with resonances are generally high anyway, due to high stats, so this isn't as big a boon as it would first appear. >I dunno. I'd say the duration and long range of In Nomine abilities would >justify their point cost. I certainly think they're justified. In fact, I had some long discussions with Kromm about Body-Hopping, which he wanted to be even more expensive. >> >I like the additional ability granted to all angels of Jordi, and the one >> >granted to all angels of Micheal, and Novalis, and Andrealphus, >>especially >> >Belial. >> >>They generally seemed to fit the theme of those Superior's Servitors, >>and don't really contradict anything in the IN mechanics. > >Oh, totally. And if such powers were defined in In Nomine, those Superiors would probably include them that way. As it is, it's more of a GM-fiat thing in IN. - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1973 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.