From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Dec 16 14:15:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18727 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:15:56 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA22879 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:15:05 -0600 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:15:05 -0600 Message-Id: <200012162015.OAA22879@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1974 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, December 16 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1974 In this digest: Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) Re: IN> Sun-Cross Re: IN> Gabriel's attunements Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma Re: IN> Ophis may be the Seneschal of Abel's Grave Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl Re: IN> Someone's done this right? IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes Re: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes Re: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes Re: IN> Someone's done this right? Re: IN> Someone's done this right? IN> Fwd: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Walter Milliken ] Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine Re:IN> RE: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 Re: IN> VorDark Bright... IN> Re: Giant Sized Plot Seed Re: IN> VorDark Bright... Re: IN> Someone's done this right? Re: IN> Oh, no, not another Minor Band Re: IN> Someone's done this right? Re: IN> Breaking Dominic's Brain Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:33:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Brain teaser. Sorta. - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > On the smaller scale, a group of ten people is > going to get their job done if they all know their job without trying > to take over. > [snip] > an angel who dedicated his existence to > developing techniques to help children do this would probably be > quite > willing to extend his reach to adults who really should have learned > how to stand in a straight line when they were five. Once again, I am humbled. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:35:49 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Yes, I'm afraid so. - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Not much to say. They're alligators. They're albinos. > There's a lot of them. Nothing special about them at > all, really. > > Their _riders_, on the other hand... > Croatoans > (With apologies to Harlan Ellison) Moe, sometimes you _scare_ me... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:40:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > So, when Novalis finally works out that Michael has a > whole bunch of Seraphim of War misusing (as she sees > it) their old Seraph of Flowers Attunement, or Jean > notices how many Servitors of Stone seem to have > Generator these days, they may not be able to do much > about it... That blade cuts both ways. Picture this; former Remnant turned Calabite of Fire with Art of Combat. Be afraid. Be very afraid. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:48:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 6:24 PM +0000 12/15/00, Genevieve Cogman wrote: > > > >At least, this is how I understand it. Sorry to all those Malakim, > but no, > >if you have the attunement, you've also just adopted lifetime > pacifism . . . Not necessarily. Novalis allows her Servitors to fight. They just can't start fights. Being able to defend yourself or others is a job that every angel must be prepared to do. > I would not define it as 'always on' for a Malakite, but would have > the Malakite affected by it while it *was* on. I'd also require a > darn good backstory for why a Malakite had this particular attunement > in the first place. A Mercurian, sure. But a Malakite? Depends on how broadly you interpret the First Oath. Malakim cannot suffer an evil to live -- but there's more than one way to kill it. If a Hellborn Redeems, the demon "dies" and an angel is born in its place. That satisfies both the Malakite Oath and Novalis' Dissonance condition. By this logic, a Malakite of Flowers with the Seraph of Flowers Attunement has a strong motive for being a very good diplomat. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:04:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma At 10:01 PM +0000 12/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:36:50 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 10:37 PM -0500 12/12/00, William J. Keith wrote: >[snip] >>>>If Dominic catches her adopting Grigori, he's going to start a trial >>>>rolling. They're Outcast for a _reason_... O:> >>>Hm. Does just handing out an attunement count as adoption? >>Yes, it would, pretty much. Angels in good standing are NOT supposed >>to be having ANYTHING to do with the Grigori. The Grigori are Outcast, >>not just not invited to tea anymore. > > this isn't strictly Grigori-related, but from what i recall of Outcasts, their Hearts are unbroken; they're still bound by their Superior's Dissonance Condidtions--from this, my question arises: are Grigori out there still serving their former Archangels' Words? Possibly, though most were stripped of their attunements from non-Grigori AAs. (There might be some who got "overlooked.") And I doubt they have Hearts anymore. They're banished from Heaven... If they _did_ still have Hearts, the Hearts would be cracked, like normal Outcasts', and therefore unusable as beacons. They go to Limbo. > Limbo every corporeal death... yeesh. That's why Outcasting is a _punishment_... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:07:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement (with miniminiseed added) At 6:24 PM +0000 12/15/00, Genevieve Cogman wrote: >A quick note -- as I understood it, the angel (or otherwise) with the Seraph >of Flowers attunement is at the epicenter of the effect. Bingo, and THANK GOD. The Seraph of Flowers attunement is not switchable. It is always on. Read the description -- it says nothing about "with a thought" or any other activation. An aura of peace EMANATES from these Seraphim. Period. >At least, this is how I understand it. Sorry to all those Malakim, but no, >if you have the attunement, you've also just adopted lifetime pacifism . . . A-yup. Well, you can try to make a Will roll. Minus your total Forces. If you have Will 12 and are only 9 Forces, you might make it sometimes. Maybe you could ask your Archangel to strip away a few non-useful Forces and get the penalty down a little... O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:08:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Sun-Cross At 12:11 PM -0500 12/15/00, William J. Keith wrote: > > >*William reads the Seraph resonance table* > >** Toldya. O:> >*William goes off to meditate on Truth and Redemption...* > >...and some of the other stuff. I can see how a good editor helps a writer >do their job, Beth. I appreciate all the help so far; I'll quit doing >drafts in public now. When I don't have time, I don't "edit freelance." Don't fret. The rest of the writeup is quite interesting! O:> (Editing keeps me in practice.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:51:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Gabriel's attunements - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > I don't know why a Fire would > want anything other than the Ofanite and Malakite attunements. An earlier discussion on this subject brought up the fact that Fire's Attunements detect demons. Not all demons, to be sure, and the angel doesn't know that she's detecting a demon -- but if one wants a sure way to identify legitimate targets, Gabriel's Servitor Attunements (other than those for Ofanim, Malakim and Mercurians) are about as good as it gets for angels. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "...faith is only pure when it does not negate the faith of another." -- Eli Weisel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:14:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Grigori/Outcasts in Trauma At 5:49 PM -0500 12/14/00, William J. Keith wrote: >> this isn't strictly Grigori-related, but from what i recall of >>Outcasts, their Hearts are unbroken; > >Nope. "Outcasts are always Heartless"; direct quote. More precisely, they have the Heartless disad. To be more technical in setting (though not really in game mechanics), their "Heart has cracked, and is no longer a beacon to guide" them home. (p. GIN149) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Ophis may be the Seneschal of Abel's Grave On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Glenn Brown wrote: > According to the Liber Castellorum, Abel's Grave in the Middle East is > Baal's oldest tether. It doesn't say who the Seneschal is, just that "some > say it is Ophis himself". The Seneschal's sole job is to keep the tether > hidden and ward off mortals and celestials alike. The Seneschal's doing a > good job, since only Baal ever visits the tether, and what he does there is > anyone's guess. But Players characters *could* just stumble across it. Yup. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! ::: Conspiracy religions CONvert, the Subgenius SUBverts! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 05:02:04 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine > >>in GURPS, GURPS Supers aside. > > > >What about Unusual Background and the fact that: > >In the IN setting, it doesn't really make sense for celestials to >have Unusual Background. Secret, yes. But not Unusual Background. > > >IQ 10 (0pts) > >Telepathy 2 (10pts) > >Telereceive 10 (4pts) > > > >can touch a person and read their thoughts for only about 15 points? > >But only half the time, and rarely with more than superficial >surface-thought >access. A really effective psi tends to require more like 30-50 points in >psi powers, in my experience. True, but with IQ 14 Telereceive Power (single skill) 2 [6pts], Telereceive Skill 25 [26pts] grants the Psi the ability to touch people and literally probe all their memories on a regular basis. Granted, that's 32pts total. May I ask how that compares to the Angelic resonance costs? > >I dunno, while that lacks the sheer range powers have in In Nomine, it's >a > >lot more powerful in terms of depth. > >I wouldn't necessarily say it's more powerful than a Seraph or Mercurian's >resonance. Probably not, since the Seraph and Mercurian resonance provides specific information /quickly/. But Telereceive could probably achieve the effects of both the Seraph and Mercurian Resonance. >In fact, the first version of the IN power mechanics were mostly based >on GURPS psi powers. It was a real mess, and they were generally >*more* expensive than they are now, when all was said and done. SJ >mercy-killed that version, thankfully. Interesting. I guess that means that certain routes to power are more expensive (pt-wise) than others in GURPS. Doesn't sound all that balanced to me, but hey, we're only human. > > Also, because Telereceive is a skill, > >not an ability per se, raising skill level is pretty cheap. > >True. But celestial's skill levels with resonances are generally high >anyway, due to high stats, so this isn't as big a boon as it would >first appear. Yeah, especially with GURPS "if you're a genius, you've got terrific perceptions and willpower, too" bit . . . > >I dunno. I'd say the duration and long range of In Nomine abilities >would > >justify their point cost. > >I certainly think they're justified. In fact, I had some long discussions >with Kromm about Body-Hopping, which he wanted to be even more expensive. Hrm. Well, I dunno how expensive it is now, so . . . > >> >I like the additional ability granted to all angels of Jordi, and the >one > >> >granted to all angels of Micheal, and Novalis, and Andrealphus, > >>especially > >> >Belial. > >> > >>They generally seemed to fit the theme of those Superior's Servitors, > >>and don't really contradict anything in the IN mechanics. > > > >Oh, totally. > >And if such powers were defined in In Nomine, those Superiors would >probably >include them that way. As it is, it's more of a GM-fiat thing in IN. I see it more as a "GURPS has it, so let's take advantage of it" thing. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:25:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate w/Howl On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: > Seraphim: walk up to the demon, grab him with one > arm, cut his throat with the other. Resistance is > futile. Um... IF you make your own Will roll, MINUS your total Forces. The Seraph of Flowers attunement DOES affect the user. I don't think you can even turn it off to be violent yourself... the APG went into detail on this. > 1) Seraph of Flowers should really be made Restricted. Naw. It's as limiting as it is useful. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Q. What's the best thing that humans do for the planet? A. Die. (Dr. DynaSoar Iridium) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:22:32 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? At 6:49 PM -0800 12/15/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:49:41 -0600 >From: "Prodigal" >Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? > >>Omigod. >> >>What if Clarence is actually one of the few unFallen >>Mercurians of Fear? > >Ooooooh. > >Well, what are you waiting for? Write up the >Attunements. You might as well do Distinctions, too. Wasn't Beleth *Angel* of Fear? Or do I remember wrong? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:41:23 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes Eramus Angel of Parrallel Universes Superior Unknown Olfanim Cor-2 Str-4 Agil-4 Eth-6 Int-12 Pre-12 Cel-5 Will-12 Per-8 Artifacts: Eramus has perhaps the largest spread out supply of artifacts in all of Heaven and certainly the most among any Non-Superior 1-6 usually with several "too dangerous to exist" relics....though these like his other tricks may be illusions... Vessel: Seemingly infinite Supply 4/ (Charisma ranging from -1 to +3) Songs: Attraction (Corporeal 3/,Ethereal 3/, Celestial 5/), Charm (Ethereal 3/)Healing (All 6/), Form (All 5/), Tongues 6/ Skills: Acrobatics 4/, Boating 2/, Cooking 5/, Computer Operation 2/, Driving 1/, Dodge 11/, Electronics 1/, Escapology 2/, Fighting 5/, Gambling 4/, Hand Weapon (Mace, Jousting lance, Broadsword, Shortsword, Halbred, Flail, Whip, etc 2/), Military Science 2/, Tracking 1, Savoir Faire 11/, Seduction 6/, Swimming 2/, Ranged Weapon (Pistol, Rifle, Crossbow, Long Bow, Shortbow, Machine gun, Laser Cannon....etc 1/), Tracking 2/ Attunements: Alernate Universe Adjustment, Etiquette, Divine Logic, Dimensional Slide, Dream Walking, Malakim of War, , Malakim of Stone, Master of Divine Knowledge, Mercurian of Creation, Mercurian of War, Seraph of Creation, Synchornity, Vassal of Flowers Rites: * Fix a universe's problem relating somehow to it's most overriding difficulty * Teach someone from another universe a lesson using another as an example (Clarence he perists is only a servitor of his-jokingly we hope) Word Forces: 4 (25+) Eramus is one of the most bizzare angels in Heaven and no one exactly knows what to make of the fellow. With no actual superior in his command Eramus has a unspoken "hands off" policy from the Seraphim Council despite the fact that he routinely aducts servitors even from important assigments to whisk off on what most describe as a bizzare adventure of some sort into a alternate seeming reality. The Seraphim council grants Eramus the leniancy he has because most believe he is one of those rare word bound who recived their word from God himself on a divine intervention. His word is generally understood (at least how Dominic interprets it) as the Angel of "What might have been" who has the power to conjure elaborate illusions to teach profound insights into the human spirit....other angels are a bit more skeptical and wonder if Eramus is actually nigh short of an Archangel charged with the task of managing the countless timestream....and that what they see may just well be his overextended projections. Eramus who is usually working on some bizzare calculation or thought at the time agrees to whatever theory the other person says or says "whatever" or Seraphim growling at the fact he refuses to answer in any method that could educate....either he's ineffable or he honestly doesn't know....and he actually doesn't seem to care. The mystery of Eramus continues and many in Heaven enjoy speculating. Self-described as a servitor of "Somebody" he says that he managed to get the "Best/Worst job in the Multi-verse" by means that "Depend on what plane of existence your on". As everything from a cocktail waitress to a cookoo bird to a large Italian man who suspiciously resembles a professor from Sliders....Eramus has a personality that can best be described as "on". He is always up to something and never seems to lack friends no matter what reality he seems to be located on and how remote....perhaps that's because he's among the most rogueish yet ingratiating beings you'll find neither in the service of Eli or Lilith. Always looking for a good time in whatever planet he's on (or seems to be on), Eramus still always seems a bit distracted and worried about something and is actually always focused on the goal of repairing whatever reality he's in or the spirit of someone who is "broken" somehow. One of the most perculiar quirks about Eramus is that he has a tendancy to quote history alot in the presence of the people he's with and well....it's inaccurate....Alot (Geez man if Orwell Wright hadn't killed his brother in a duel over a back alley whore who knows what they might have acomplished! Stay close man....geez this reminds me of the time Washington was shot....Hey I know I'm know Eleanor Roosevelt but I wouldn't want to be the First woman president anway) Aleternate Universe Adjustment: This allows Eramus with a sucessful perception roll to instantly detect what exactly makes this universe different from the previous universe he's been dealing with exactly. Given the level of sucess determines the numbers he's been known to be drastically surprised on occasion (such as discovering while the biggest difference is Pagia never broke up on this world not knowing a Nazi esque Regime ruled the planet). This ignorance Eramus occasionally imparts on his servitors. Dimensional Slide: Eramus with the expenditure of 3 essence can slide across the universe to another one which he usually uses in conjunction with his synchronity attunement. With the expenditure of an extra point of essence Eramus can dictate "one difference" he wants to occur between this reality and the next but hates to do it truly as it feels like to him too much like playing God. Eramus is glad to share his attunements but warns that they had best clear them with their superior as "gallivanting across space and time which may or may not exist to your Superior in question is not the fastest way to promotion...believe me." - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:00:48 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes >From: "Charles Phipps" >Subject: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes > >Eramus >Angel of Parrallel Universes >Superior Unknown >Olfanim >Rites: > >* Fix a universe's problem relating somehow to it's most overriding >difficulty fix a universe's problem? And he gets to use this rite once a day, right? How often does this come up and how come he hasn't fixed the problem of "main-time-stream" In Nomine? (or has he /already/ ) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:00:53 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes >From: "Charles Phipps" >Subject: IN> The Angel of Parallel Universes > >Eramus >Angel of Parrallel Universes >Superior Unknown >Olfanim >Rites: > >* Fix a universe's problem relating somehow to it's most overriding >difficulty fix a universe's problem? And he gets to use this rite once a day, right? How often does this come up and how come he hasn't fixed the problem of "main-time-stream" In Nomine? (or has he /already/ ) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:32:56 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? From: "Maurice Lane" > > Well, what are you waiting for? Writing time, which should hopefully strike tomorrow evening. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:35:54 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? From: "Whistling in the Dark" > At 6:49 PM -0800 12/15/00, Maurice Lane wrote: > >From: "Prodigal" > > > >>Omigod. > >> > >>What if Clarence is actually one of the few unFallen > >>Mercurians of Fear? > > Wasn't Beleth *Angel* of Fear? Or do I remember wrong? Yup. Clarence would, in my take on things, be one of the few in her service who didn't take the dive with her. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:58:52 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Walter Milliken ] >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Walter Milliken ] > >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:12:08 -0500 >From: Walter Milliken >Subject: Re: IN> Sun-Cross > >>>Urrrrr.... I'd look at the stuff in GIN, but I have an awake baby on my lap >>>right now... Walter's the more mechanics-minded of us, anyway. >> >>Oh... wait. Sign confusion. I think I get it now. #7 on the character >>creation checklist on p.17 of G:IN says to "add" your Superior Cost, but >>this is gamer-speak, and what it means is to subtract it -- a negative >>Superior Cost is essentially a disadvantage which adds points for >>customization, whereas, say a Superior with an easy Dissonance Condition >>who's readily available, and thus a positive Superior Cost, will cause >>fewer points for customization. > >It actually meant "add to the character design", like you would add the cost >of an advantage or disadvantage, but it's obviously an unclear phrasing in >the context of the earlier part of the checklist. > > >---Walter > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:00:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine At 5:02 AM -0500 12/16/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: >True, but with IQ 14 Telereceive Power (single skill) 2 [6pts], Telereceive >Skill 25 [26pts] grants the Psi the ability to touch people and literally >probe all their memories on a regular basis. Granted, that's 32pts total. >May I ask how that compares to the Angelic resonance costs? The base Symphonic Knowledge power is... 30 points. With mods, it breaks down to... Seraph: 36; Elohite: 30; Malakite: 30; Mercurian: 36. (Don't forget the psi has to make a Contest of Wills if the subject notices him, too -- he's likely to win it against the average mundane, but Crits Happen. The Symphonic Knowledge powers aren't resisted. >> >I dunno, while that lacks the sheer range powers have in In Nomine, it's >>a >> >lot more powerful in terms of depth. >> >>I wouldn't necessarily say it's more powerful than a Seraph or Mercurian's >>resonance. > >Probably not, since the Seraph and Mercurian resonance provides specific >information /quickly/. But Telereceive could probably achieve the effects >of both the Seraph and Mercurian Resonance. True -- and indeed, the original draft had all the angelic "knowledge" resonances based off of Telerecive with various "Truth only" style modifiers. >>In fact, the first version of the IN power mechanics were mostly based >>on GURPS psi powers. It was a real mess, and they were generally >>*more* expensive than they are now, when all was said and done. SJ >>mercy-killed that version, thankfully. > >Interesting. I guess that means that certain routes to power are more >expensive (pt-wise) than others in GURPS. Doesn't sound all that balanced >to me, but hey, we're only human. What made the point totals come out wonky were the rules for enhancements and limitations, and how those enhancements and limitations worked out. Remember that there are minimum costs, yadda, yadda. O:> (Some routes are -- but since there are subtle nuances... Talk off-list to Walter about his notions for a GURPS Magery mage taking down the M:TA Technocracy. Or an Electrokinetic doing same... Eventually the folks with Probability Alteration wax him, but till then, he's really mucking with them.) >>True. But celestial's skill levels with resonances are generally high >>anyway, due to high stats, so this isn't as big a boon as it would >>first appear. > >Yeah, especially with GURPS "if you're a genius, you've got terrific >perceptions and willpower, too" bit . . . It's probably a good thing that GIN kind of emphasizes Strong Will and Alertness. (Also Weak Will and negative Alertness, FINALLY. I can't believe we had to invent negative Alertness.) >> >I dunno. I'd say the duration and long range of In Nomine abilities >>would >> >justify their point cost. >> >>I certainly think they're justified. In fact, I had some long discussions >>with Kromm about Body-Hopping, which he wanted to be even more expensive. > >Hrm. Well, I dunno how expensive it is now, so . . . 80 points for Body-hopping. (The limit is no longer on Forces, but on ST+IQ+DX+HT, and a total number of hosts within that.) >>And if such powers were defined in In Nomine, those Superiors would >>probably >>include them that way. As it is, it's more of a GM-fiat thing in IN. > >I see it more as a "GURPS has it, so let's take advantage of it" thing. That too. O:> (Also, a "GURPS has more tolerance for complexity" thing. These bennies, while appropriate, do add a level of complexity.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:00:14 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re:IN> RE: in_nomine-digest V1 #1972 At 11:33 PM +0000 12/15/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:20:44 Adam Benedict Canning wrote: >>Seraphim of Flowers are in their own vicinity. therefore they are >>affected and must make a will roll to act violent, just like every one >>else. >(GM: "You want to resist your own Seraph of Flowers Attunement, you have nine >Forces, and you Will is six? You fail. Whose turn is it?"). They could spend Essence! O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:00:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> VorDark Bright... At 7:02 PM +0000 12/15/00, Adam Benedict Canning wrote: >>From: Elizabeth McCoy > >>(Suave? Suave? Who needs suave when you've got THE best Good View in >>Heaven? Ahem. O:> ) > >It does seem a little bit much like Ivan Vorpatril, Archangel of the >Sword. Down to the worst possible things going wrong. I was _going_ to point out that I was being mildly sarcastic or silly or something, but this... this is priceless. >Just this one is slightly less competent. Or has worse bad luck! >Worse of course if true this would make Miles Archangel of War... I dunno -- these days, he's Imperial Auditor. Maybe he's actually more... Raphael. Except for being dead, of course. >Some of the other possibilities go down well or at least in a manner >appropriate for causing panic among PC's. Mark as Marc, Bothari as >Khalid, Ekaterin as Novalis, Cordelia as Dominic, Aral as David, Simon >Illyan as Yves, Cavillo as Belial. Cavillo... was more trying to be Asmodeus. All paths lead to victory. Simon's definitely more Dominic, but I still think Cordelia... Well... At 7:25 PM -0500 12/15/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: >Damn, any other fictional character is lucky to map to one Superior, and >Cordelia's so darned huge that she can map to two of the majors at once and >still have room left over. Whew! I still think that Novalis-Cordelia is _missing_ something. Maybe _Cordelia_ should be mapped to Raph. Elohite, knows lots... (Not dead though.) (And she didn't forgive Vorrutyer when _he_ was about to, ur, take some amusement. She just forgave Bothari, for he was a victim as well...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:56:33 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Giant Sized Plot Seed > Many humans came to see the stone forest that appeared the scientists > said it was a freak plate shift, but a wonderful sight none the less. Interestingly enough, there actually is a "stone forest," Shi Lin, in China's Yunnan province. It's a really amazing place, actually. When I was there, me and a friend spent hours avoiding the tour guides and doing a little rock climbing. I'd actually be a great spot for some old giants to climb out of. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:27:25 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> VorDark Bright... >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> VorDark Bright... >Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:00:12 -0500 >I still think that Novalis-Cordelia is _missing_ something. Maybe >_Cordelia_ should be mapped to Raph. Elohite, knows lots... (Not dead >though.) Well, Yves-Cordelia is something that I thought of recently... and it does make *some* sense... >(And she didn't forgive Vorrutyer when _he_ was about to, ur, take some >amusement. She just forgave Bothari, for he was a victim as well...) But that's because Vorrutyer was Beyond The Pale. *g* - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:38:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? At 4:35 AM -0600 12/16/00, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > > Wasn't Beleth *Angel* of Fear? Or do I remember wrong? > >Yup. Clarence would, in my take on things, be one of the few in her service >who didn't take the dive with her. Oh, I understand and don't disagree. My point was the call for attunements and Distinctions was misplaced, as she wasn't an Archangel. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:53:56 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Oh, no, not another Minor Band In a message dated 12/14/00 3:09:34 PM, thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com writes: >--- EDG wrote: >> At 07:56 PM 12/13/00, you wrote: > >> >Personae ("The Imposters") >> >> >... The level of the Role is equal to the Check Digit. >> >> What's the Status of the Role? Or can a Persona adopt a Role of any >> status? > > D'oh! I knew I missed something. Oh well, seeing as Walk-ons can >only adopt temporary Roles, I'd let them have any Status. If you feel >you must limit it, the demon's Celestial Forces is a figure. > Also, according to the main rulebook, Status of a Role cannot exceed the Role's level, so the check die will determine the maximum on both. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:03:58 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Someone's done this right? From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > Oh, I understand and don't disagree. My point was the call for > attunements and Distinctions was misplaced, as she wasn't an > Archangel. Doesn't mean I'm not working on an Attunement anyway. ;p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:18:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Breaking Dominic's Brain At 7:47 PM +0000 12/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >what does Dominic do? Superiors can't generally strip Attunements from other >Superiors from their Servitors, can they? Well, yes, if the Servitor allows it -- and if it's _your_ Servitor, you can generally do as you please. (But hey, it might be a _useful_ attunement.) That's GMG IIRC. (And anyway, it's not like she set out to please Gabriel, so at least Gabriel is capable of recognizing that _some_ Judgment angels aren't to be scorned... Right?) > all that. Suriel falls in with local angels of Stone. not a bad thing right? [...] >she's smart enough to find a solitary Bal, and convincing herself this is more >for the good of Heaven that she rid the world of one of Hell's worst, she goes This is where Dominic smacks her wrists so hard they sting for the next month, and does it every time he shows up for the next six months. Bad Seraph, no donut. Yeah, she killed a Balseraph -- in the name of pride and vanity and self- justification (very dangerous for a Seraph). Not good, and she's going to have her nose rubbed in the TRUTH of that until she's about at the verge of burning the damned outfit... and then she'll probably be told to wear it when appropriate and meditate upon the reasons why she did it. And if she does it again, well, she can just petition to _JOIN_ Stone, now can't she. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:32:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Bright At 10:24 PM +0000 12/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>>[But] >>>is canny enough to know his soldiers--his swords, as he thinks of them--need >>>to be polished with praise in private for the effort of training and fighting >>>against Hell just as they need to be honed in practice and in battle. >> >>Oh, definitely. But, well, she wasn't finished -- she was still a trainee. > you congratulate a child on a well-done homework assignment, even though >the child hasn't passed the current semester, correct? You do if you're a parent -- but he's not a parent, he's a commander. (Man, think what it would be like, having Uriel as your "father figure"...) This is probably another campaign decision -- do Superiors have _time_ to talk to the underlings for basic morale, or do they tend to shuffle that off onto their own Servitors who do the teaching? (Actually entirely plausible that Chesil would have gotten praise from the teachers -- but no one realized that she wasn't getting it from the one she Needed it from, because, well... why _wouldn't_ it be enough for the armsmaster to say, "Good touch there"? [Because she's mismatched to the Word and is therefore high-maintainance, that's why...]) >>Why should he get all overwrought over basic training? No other angel'd >>ever needed it before... > other Brights hadn't, or she is supposed to have been Laurence's First >Bright Ever? Certainly the first one he went out and recruited all special-like before she'd had a chance to be, well, "contaminated" by some other Word and not want to work for him. (I would imagine that any other Bright he'd ever gotten into his service, if any, was one the Council had decided would be okay there.) > otherwise... i'm going with the notion that Laurence knows his angels >the way parents know their children--one needs more praise than another, one >needs more time, one needs more space. I'd actually argue that he's not necessarily that wise, in default canon mode. (Though not necessarily _as_ clueless as in the story.) He's stated as not seeming to grok that not even his own are as honorable and strong as he, himself, is. p. 76 of S1: "Now, if only their war-leader could learn to respect his own angels' individual natures as much as he did that of the humans. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened..." Why not get help? That's back to interpretation. Maybe he didn't want to lose the Bright to Novalis or Blandine (I mean, that would just _hurt_). Maybe he thought that she'd get over it. Maybe he's trying to get some advice on it while she's on Earth -- it's pretty clear that being in Heaven wasn't helping her get less messed up, not to mention the morale problem. Maybe he really did go on a date with her and doesn't want to admit it to anyone. O;> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1974 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.