From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Dec 19 22:12:47 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07591 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:12:47 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA18093 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:11:54 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:11:54 -0600 Message-Id: <200012200411.WAA18093@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1981 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, December 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1981 In this digest: Re: IN> Arisia Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement Re: IN> Campaign ideas. Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Arisia Re: IN> Arisia Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... Re: IN> Campaign ideas. Re: IN> Campaign ideas. Re: IN> Arisia IN> Another newbie GM seeking advice... IN> Remnants Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Another newbie GM seeking advice... IN> [NPC] Dr. Zoltan Karolyi IN> GURPS and Grigori... what the heck? IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Re: IN> GURPS and Grigori... what the heck? Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique IN> Book query... Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique IN> Toons! Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:13:36 -0500 From: "Aaron Medwin" Subject: Re: IN> Arisia From: "Douglas Muir" > Well, I'm going. Will I see any of you there? Wow! Local con... IN people showing up... yeah, I'll be there. Especially if someone's going to run something one-shottish. Every IN campaign I've ever been in has fallen through at the last minute *grumble*. > Doug M. - -Aaron Medwin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:16:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement At 9:33 PM -0800 12/18/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:29:27 -0500 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement >I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. Michael doesn't need a >Seraph of Flowers to do this trick. Mike needs an >angel with the Seraph of Flowers Attunement... and as >long as the Host doesn't recycle their Remnants, Mike >can get them. Only the Seraphim ones, unless he's going to keep the repaired version a Heartless Outcast. And I'm really not sure that they'd be able to keep their mouths shut, or that Mike'd be able to get them in many numbers. I mean, think about it. No violence without a wicked little Will roll; Seraphim of Flowers (and those with that Choir Attunement) have to make that Will roll themselves. How are they going to _get_ into celestial combat and lose all their Celestial Forces in the first place? Demon Princes? Wouldn't they just be _killed_ by a Prince? Remember, unless you let Unholy Pistols work celestially (they're tuned to trash _vessels_), you don't get much in the way of celestial snipers, and this presumes you can get the frabbishnabber Seraph to go celestial in the first place. (And that you'll be lucky enough to only peel off the CelForces.) Remnant Seraphim of Flowers are probably nearly as rare as Bright Lilim, when you think about the contortions needed to get them in that state. >However, seeing as I've suppressed my inner munchkin >for the moment, let's shift the topic a tad. The >default assumption, IIRC, is that neither side really >doesn't do much about Remnants. Anybody got an >opinion, one way or the other, about Superiors that >would salvage them ... or break them down for raw >materials? Princes would generally break them down for raw materials unless they could flaunt an "ex-Servitor" in front of someone (like an AA) or the remnant might remember something useful. If the Prince ran across the remnant and felt like removing it. AAs... It really depends on the interpretation of the AA. Eli probably usually salvages them or remakes them. Yves might do something along those lines. Novalis would do whatever seemed kindest... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:26:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Campaign ideas. At 11:35 PM -0600 12/18/00, Tafka J. wrote: >> It's my first time running the game, and I'm terribly excited about it. > > Three words: No Mercurian PCs. No Merurian PCs. Repeat. While this may be a little strong, I, too, would suggest checking the Mercurian check digit tables, and the Mercurian attunements (esp. for Destiny and Judgment) and generating results for these on the fly. For totally unimportant characters _and_ for characters who are important. When you know how easy or hard you find that task, then you can decide about the little Merkies. > Good ideas. Really. Go with it. It makes learning the system so much >more fun! Especially when it turns out that one of the PC's is a Djinn of >the Game, with Humanity. . . And amnesia, oooooo. >> 1. Aside from the relic mentioned in the first Superior book (Or maybe the >> second, it was late when I read it last night) are their any mechanisms to >> 'make' a Celestial forget who/what they are? > > Finger of Oblivion is the Liber Reliquarum, and the Ethereal Song of >Oblivion from Liber Canticorum. Either of these can be used to make >Celestials forget. Or you can have a Freak Vapulan Explosion. (Or Freak Jeanite Explosion, for that matter, though there's a strong chance that it was a Freak Outcast/Dissonant Jeanite Explosion.) > (There's also 'Oopey', but most of you wouldn't know what that was.) Oppy. It's currently a half-shattered metal sphere. It used to be a relic. It was made by three Superiors. It may be a clue as to why everyone in that game has amnesia. It is a McGuffin. O:> >> 2. What do y'all (Jeez, now I'm writing like a Texan) think of the idea? > > There are worse things. . . };;;> Worse things than writing like a Texan, too. At least you have the apostrophe in the right place... O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:36:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands [Demonbane comic stuff] Couple of suggestions... #1: find Genaissance 1 and 2, a black and white independant-publisher comic. It's basically the story of Enoch (?), done in graphic novel form. Gabri'el is, as it happens, female in that. (And with African features; most of the angels have them, which I found startling for a moment when I first noticed it, but quickly started liking for various reasons.) #2: if you don't already have it, snag Gustav Davidson's _A Dictionary of Angels_. It is incredibly useful for giving both names of "celestials" and names for their orders. (The term "order of angel" seems to be what IN calls a "Choir," BTW. OTOH, Genessance (No, I can't remember the correct spelling at the moment; argh) uses Choir...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:40:27 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Arisia >> Well, I'm going. Will I see any of you there? > >Wow! Local con... IN people showing up... yeah, I'll be there. > >Especially if someone's going to run something one-shottish. Every IN >campaign I've ever been in has fallen through at the last minute *grumble*. Well, shoot. I am going to be there, along with the rest of the bostongamers.com crew. I didn't pitch an IN game for the schedule... but that doesn't mean I *couldn't*. Hmm. Keep an eye out for posters, those of you in attendance. yours, * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:49:36 -0500 From: Andrew Stoner Subject: Re: IN> Arisia Aaron Medwin wrote: > > From: "Douglas Muir" > > > Well, I'm going. Will I see any of you there? > > Wow! Local con... IN people showing up... yeah, I'll be there. Umm... its right across from where I work. This is gonna be FUN. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:06:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands At 9:05 PM -0500 12/18/00, Jonathan Walton wrote: >> Demons are a bit more complicated. I have divided demons into the Fallen >> (former angels, the balseraphim, balcherubim, or whatever you wnat to call >> them), the Lilim (creating by Lilith mating with angels, giants, gods, >> etc.), and the Imp-Born (created in Hell from imps). Oh, and the cambions, >> half-human mongrels. This is a hierachy of power by the way. > >Okay, the one place where In Nomine REALLY departs from real source >material on angels and demons is the whole idea of choirs and bands as the >equivilant of "races" or "character classes" for Celestials. Actually not -- from reading the Gustav Davidson book, it talks about "orders of angels" all over the place, and that they have different names associated with them. (Malakim ("kings") are equated with the order of virtues, for instance. In practically those exact words!) Calling them Choirs and Bands and nailing down what their Kewl Powers are -- _that's_ not in the Davidson book at all. O:> > I'm not >arguing against this idea, because I think it really works in a game >context, I'm just saying that it's not representative of the pictures we >get of the real Celestial heirarchy. The _Dictionary of Angels_ also includes heirarchy rankings, and comments about which angels have been called princes or leaders of which orders... Natch, it has _several_ versions of the rankings, from at least a dozen sources... >The whole idea of the demonic equivilent of Choirs is completely made up, >am I right? Dunno. Gustav's book designates the names of the Fallen with "once of the order of X." (Or in one case, "partly of the order of virtues and partly the order of angels.") Demonology, at least as documented in this book, seems more focused at figuring out the specific abilities of named demons, not generic kinds of demons. (Probably wise, if you're going to try summoning and controlling 'em.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:06:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... At 9:57 PM -0500 12/18/00, Rolland Therrien wrote: >Problem is, I only own the IN corebook >and I can't find rules on making Saints in it. I assume they're built >somewhere between Soldiers and Angels, but I do have a few specific >questions: > >1: How many Forces can a Saint have? Technically, up to 15. Practically, they start at 7 and probably rarely get more than about 10-12 or so. >2: Can Saints be Word-Bound? No. They can act like one, but it's strictly voluntary, not metaphysical. >3: Can Saints have Angelic Attunements? Only if the GM allows a backstory of them having a Force donated directly from an angel of the Choir of the desired Choir Attunement, and it's not a restricted one. Servitor Attunements are okay. I'd suggest snagging (if at all possible) a copy of the Corporeal Player's Guide, or (if your tastes lean that way anyway) GURPS IN (wherein we stuffed as much vital CPG stuff as we could make fit). - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:07:08 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Campaign ideas. I have a question about Eric's suggestion for Matt's memory problem. One of my players wanted the same type of Celestial character that thinks it's human. Always ready to help my players, I gracefully turned him into a piece of garbage generated by a throwaway and disastrous experiment from Vapula's personal lab. I know, I'm way too gentle, but what can I say... Anyway, during that experiment, Vapula replaced the Ethereal Forces of a Demon by those of a human. I believe Ethereal Forces contain the memories, so the theory behind that is that Vapy could create Hell-sworn beings that would escape most Angelic Resonance rolls, since they believe they're humans. Anyway, as I said, the experiment was a disaster and there was a Forces conflict that turned the poor creature into a gross pile of discord. Imagine the shock of the poor human mind that wakes up in a different body plus 57 levels of discord... I now have a happy player who loves his... erm... let's call it character. (go figure). I thought this could give Matt some inspiration, but I was also wondering: should Celestial Resonances fail when targeted on this character? Eric said it's pretty much a specific remnant case... Could you please send the response in private (or a copy of it) at cossonl@logica.com, for I will un$ub$cribe in a few hours. I don't want to find 3000 messages in my mailbox when I come back from France in two weeks... Merry Christmas and happy new year to the list! Laurent. PS: While I'm over there, I'll read 1 or 2 INS/MV books thinking of you... BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:17:16 -0600 From: Matt Diederich Subject: Re: IN> Campaign ideas. Helvetica On Tuesday, December 19, 2000, at 06:26 AM, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: At 11:35 PM -0600 12/18/00, Tafka J. = wrote:0000,0000,0000 >> It's my first time running the game, = and I'm terribly excited about = it.0000,0000,0000 = >0000,0000,0000 > Three words: No Mercurian PCs. No = Merurian PCs. Repeat.0000,0000,0000 While this may be a little strong, I, = too, would suggest checking = the0000,0000,0000 Mercurian check digit tables, and the = Mercurian attunements (esp. = for0000,0000,0000 Destiny and Judgment) and generating = results for these on the fly. = For0000,0000,0000 totally unimportant characters _and_ = for characters who are = important.0000,0000,0000 When you know how easy or hard you find = that task, then you can = decide0000,0000,0000 about the little = Merkies.0000,0000,0000 I think the thing I like most about this is the fact I'm not giving any = control in a game I'm still learning. Because I get to choose what = choir/band the players end up as I can eyeball who is borderline = twinky/troublesome and avoid giving them angelic powers that would make = that much worse. Of course we all hope all the players are kind, gentle, = loving, sharing roleplayers ... but fifteen years doing this has taught = me that particular ideal is a bit farfetched. :) > Good ideas. Really. Go with it. = It makes learning the system so = much0000,0000,0000 >more fun! Especially when it turns = out that one of the PC's is a Djinn = of0000,0000,0000 >the Game, with Humanity. . = .0000,0000,0000 And amnesia, = oooooo.0000,0000,0000 >> 1. Aside from the relic mentioned in = the first Superior book (Or maybe = the0000,0000,0000 >> second, it was late when I read it = last night) are their any mechanisms = to0000,0000,0000 >> 'make' a Celestial forget who/what = they are?0000,0000,0000 = >0000,0000,0000 > Finger of Oblivion is the Liber = Reliquarum, and the Ethereal Song = of0000,0000,0000 >Oblivion from Liber Canticorum. = Either of these can be used to = make0000,0000,0000 >Celestials = forget.0000,0000,0000 Or you can have a Freak Vapulan = Explosion. (Or Freak Jeanite = Explosion,0000,0000,0000 for that matter, though there's a = strong chance that it was a = Freak0000,0000,0000 Outcast/Dissonant Jeanite = Explosion.)0000,0000,0000 > (There's also 'Oopey', but most of = you wouldn't know what that = was.)0000,0000,0000 Oppy. It's currently a half-shattered = metal sphere. It used to be a = relic.0000,0000,0000 It was made by three Superiors. It may = be a clue as to why everyone = in0000,0000,0000 that game has amnesia. It is a = McGuffin. O:>0000,0000,0000 >> 2. What do y'all (Jeez, now I'm = writing like a Texan) think of the = idea?0000,0000,0000 = >0000,0000,0000 > There are worse things. . . = };;;>0000,0000,0000 Worse things than writing like a Texan, = too. At least you have the0000,0000,0000 apostrophe in the right place... = O;>0000,0000,0000 Great ideas everyone. Thank you! I'm really looking forward to the game. = I'm still working out the campaign outline and NPCs etc, so I'm sure = I'll have more questions in time. As for Texas ... well. It has it's ups = and downs. Austin is wonderful (Let me count them off: great tech = industry, no snow, AND a society dedicated to live music and charred red = meat? Sign me up!) and warm. Warm I like. I have to go back to Wisconsin = end of this week for Christmas and dear Lord, I'm going to come back = cursing the midwest winter all over again.=20 Matt Title In Development --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // = arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line = Editor0000,0000,0000 RPG links; Random name list, Art: = http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ = 0000,0000,0000 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:58:20 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Arisia At 7:40 AM -0500 12/19/00, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >> Well, I'm going. Will I see any of you there? >> >>Wow! Local con... IN people showing up... yeah, I'll be there. >> >>Especially if someone's going to run something one-shottish. Every IN >>campaign I've ever been in has fallen through at the last minute *grumble*. > >Well, shoot. > >I am going to be there, along with the rest of the bostongamers.com crew. I >didn't pitch an IN game for the schedule... but that doesn't mean I >*couldn't*. Hmm. Keep an eye out for posters, those of you in attendance. > >yours, I've oneshotted at cons before -- Jason would do a demo better than I, but I could run a list pickup for folks on here as well.... (Which reminds me that I owe Jason a drink for getting me into this in the first place....) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:14:33 -0400 From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca Subject: IN> Another newbie GM seeking advice... What books should I get to start off? So far, all I have is GURPS: In Nomine. What would complement that well? "30) Love is when you stare at each other from across the dinner table and make suggestive Pikachu noises at each other... While guests are present." -Mini Philip Barkow pbarkow@is2.dal.ca http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/ Harbinger of Keener-sama Vice President DPG Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper. Lapsed Discordian Head of the Keiko-chanian faction ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:34:13 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Remnants >Anybody got an >opinion, one way or the other, about Superiors that >would salvage them ... or break them down for raw >materials? I think the Superiors who would have a strong interest in Remnants include Novalis (because of her boundless love and kindness) and David, Laurence, and Michael. David and his Servitors would not leave a fellow Servitor in such a condition unless they couldn't bring him back (in which case I can see them granting him a merciful death); Laurence's honour would lead him to the same conclusion, and Michael is probably well known for rescuing captured prisoners of War and looking after disabled veterans, whether human or angelic. Demon Princes: Vapula for raw materials, Asmodeus only if the Remnant might be useful or informative, Lilith for both of the reasons given above. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:35:43 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands I'll see if I can find that. Thanks. It looks very interesting. I've tended to base my Gabriel on pictures I've seen of Joan of Arc (the tight chain-mail, black hair, lance with big banner, etc.). And yes, a lot of my demon and angel lore is taken from A Dictionary of Angels (it's where I got the Hayyoth, for instance, and Asmodeus' name meaning 'Creature of Judgement'). It's kind of embarressing, as my brother took it out of his school library, forget to give it back, then changed schools. We've kinda got it permanetly now, and I'm sure Valefor is laughing. Yes, Dictionary of Angels is an excellent source. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands > [Demonbane comic stuff] > > Couple of suggestions... > > #1: find Genaissance 1 and 2, a black and white independant-publisher > comic. It's basically the story of Enoch (?), done in graphic novel form. > Gabri'el is, as it happens, female in that. (And with African features; > most of the angels have them, which I found startling for a moment when > I first noticed it, but quickly started liking for various reasons.) > > #2: if you don't already have it, snag Gustav Davidson's _A Dictionary > of Angels_. It is incredibly useful for giving both names of "celestials" > and names for their orders. (The term "order of angel" seems to be what IN > calls a "Choir," BTW. OTOH, Genessance (No, I can't remember the correct > spelling at the moment; argh) uses Choir...) > > > --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. > "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:38:23 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands I got the term for groups of angels being called Choirs from another source. I do not think that groups of demons being called bands is mythological, and I found a source which refers to Legions, which I have adopted. It sounds neat ("Call us Legions, for we are many") - ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 5:06 AM Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands > > Actually not -- from reading the Gustav Davidson book, it talks about > "orders of angels" all over the place, and that they have different > names associated with them. (Malakim ("kings") are equated with the > order of virtues, for instance. In practically those exact words!) > > > The _Dictionary of Angels_ also includes heirarchy rankings, and comments > about which angels have been called princes or leaders of which orders... > Natch, it has _several_ versions of the rankings, from at least a dozen > sources... > > Dunno. Gustav's book designates the names of the Fallen with "once of > the order of X." (Or in one case, "partly of the order of virtues and > partly the order of angels.") > > Demonology, at least as documented in this book, seems more focused > at figuring out the specific abilities of named demons, not generic > kinds of demons. (Probably wise, if you're going to try summoning and > controlling 'em.) > > --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. > "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:51:11 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Another newbie GM seeking advice... >What books should I get to start off? So far, all I have is GURPS: In >Nomine. What would complement that well? The Angelic/Demonic players guides and the GMG. Something for the players and something for you! Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:52:16 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: IN> [NPC] Dr. Zoltan Karolyi Dr. Zoltan Karolyi Brilliant Geneticist Corporeal Forces 1 -- Strength 2 Agility 2 Ethereal Forces 3 -- Intelligence 10 Precision 2 Celestial Forces 2 -- Will 3 Perception 5 Body: Charisma +1 (fashion victim, but fun), Status/3 (Biochemist) Skills: Knowledge(Biology)/6, Knowledge(Chemistry)/6, Knowledge(Mathematics)/6 Songs: None Appearance: Zoltan is a Hungarian man in his late twenties. He's a bit overweight, usually dressed in ratty t-shirts and dirty jeans, and he has an unshaved and wild-eyed look. Typical postgrad, in other words. Story: It took Zoltan Karolyi just under 3 years to get his Ph.D. in genetics. The delay was entirely due to having to jump bureaucratic hoops -- he did his doctoral work (which made people in his department start talking about the Nobel Prize in Medicine) in the first six months. Over the next two and one half years, he wrote just under two dozen papers, each of which provoked a minor storm of interest in the molecular biology community. It is fair to say that he was widely regarded as one of the most brilliant new lights. It is also fair to say that he was bored out of his mind. As a result, he took a position at a large life sciences corporation after his graduation. They did not exactly hire him with the expectation that he would do useful work; rather, they merely wanted him to impress other potential hires with the caliber of their staff. This arrangement suited the corporation, which saw a perceptible increase in the quality of their job applicants. It also suited Zoltan, who had a budget, a staff, and no need to limit himself to work his peers could understand. Four more years have passed. It is quite possible that he is one of the greatest living scientists on Earth. You could only verify this, of course, if one were conversant with (as Zoltan is) the latest developments in model theory, algorithmic complexity, game theory, probability and measure theory, information theory, the economics of search, population genetics, quantum chemistry, chaos theory and statistical mechanics. This is not a random grab-bag of disciplines (says Zoltan, and who are we to dispute him?), but rather the essential tools necessary to control evolution. More technically: determine what traits you want homo sapiens to exhibit, engineer the necessary changes to the genetic code, and release a virus to transform humanity. More poetically: as he dreams, so we are. Personality: It is accurate to call Zoltan an amoral mad scientist, but rather misleading. Sure, he found logical inconsistencies in all major moral philosophies before his twelfth birthday, and after discovering in quick succession the Pareto optimality and its insufficiency, he realized the impossibility of a scientific basis for ethics as well. Consequently, he holds to no ethical system. If he can get away with it without being discovered or feeling bad afterwards, there's no objection he can make. However, he does genuinely *like* people. Or, as he puts it, he is comfortable with the fact that he is a member of a species of social primate, and that he needs other people for his own mental health. If he regards the rest of his species as plodding intellectual cripples compared to himself, he has the considerable justification of being correct. Still: he is (or will soon be) able to engineer the course of mankind's evolution. And he does think it would be nice to have someone to talk to. And he has no ethical problem with involuntarily upgrading the rest of his species. It will be, after all, an improvement. And the rest really *can't* understand: he's tried his very best to communicate and no one can follow his thinking. He is an amoral mad scientist. But a very nice one, with decent intentions and a sound enough methodology to perform exhaustive tests and simulations before unleashing his master plan. Doesn't that make you feel better? Plot Seeds: o Technology. A demon of Technology discovered Zoltan, and foolishly told its master. Vapula fell in love at first sight -- here was someone who was almost good enough, if only that annoying streak of affection for his fellow man could be stamped out. Of course, said Vapula, no demon could be allowed to use its resonance on Karolyi; a brain like his comes along only once in a very great while and no risks could be taken with it. He still must be corrupted, of course, but the Genius Prince is sure that the PCs will think of something. Now, there is that demon of Kobal (who wants Zoltan to release a virus to make humans grow a third eye), and there's also that demon of Saminga who is not pleased with the idea of the average human lifespan tripling. They must be stopped, of course, and on top of this Karolyi could not be permitted to see any direct evidence of supernatural powers; this might distract him from his research. But the Genius Prince is sure that the PCs will think of something. o Lightning. Jean is not entirely pleased with the idea of reengineering mankind's genetic code. It is not forbidden, not when humans come up with the idea themselves, but one man casually modifying his species just gives Jean the willies. He wants the PCs to teach Zoltan some empathy, and morals. And they can't give away the secret of celestial interference, and they definitely have to keep those lunatics in Technology the Hell away from Zoltan. Don't forget that angel of David, who are really enthused at the idea of mankind strengthening itself through genetic engineering, and the angel of Wind, who thinks mankind's current genetic code is so last week. Or the angels of Michael and Gabriel, who have shown up on the theory that there are going to be a big pile of celestials around this guy and hence a big chance to bag some demons, preferably with flaming swords and anti-gravity kung-fu. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:22:53 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: IN> GURPS and Grigori... what the heck? Hello, all. I'm back on the list after... oh, quite a while. It seems like forever since I heard Em complain about _The Fall of the Malakim_. ;) Now, I had a question. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I can't find it in the list archives. (The search feature is kinda messed up for the list digests... I get a nice listing to the perl code used to do the cgi when I try to use it. I suspect some sort of permissions thing, or the fact that the page is accessed by ftp...) I was... quite... surprised by the information about the Grigori in GURPS In Nomine. The *detailed* information on their resonance, their dissonace, everything... I was wondering when this was going to appear in an In Nomine supplement proper, or if it had appeared somewhere and I missed it somehow? -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:30:35 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Hello, all. I'm going to be starting a new In Nomine campaign soon, and I wanted some suggestions. It's a mixed angels/demons game. The premise, as I've set it up, is the Austin clique, the group that maintains the truce, as presented in _Night Music_ (before the adventure -- no Hardcore yet), has encountered something that has made them call for backup... the PCs. I have some ideas as to what would motivate the Austin clique to do this, but they're fuzzy, and I wanted some alternate opinions to my own. Any ideas? What would be so... scary... that most of the clique, on both sides of the Truce, would choose to call for backup, potentially risking the Truce itself? (Naturally, they're going to try to get the PCs to remain cool, and the assumption is the problem is serious enough that they'll agree.) I'm also toying with the idea of the clique having no idea they called these people, that it was a false message sent through the heirarchy, somehow. "Um, I have no idea why you're here. I'm supposed to brief you?" -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:38:38 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS and Grigori... what the heck? > Hello, all. I'm back on the list after... oh, quite a while. Good to have you back. When are you going to finish Toonic Victory? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:41:24 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique [snip] > [...] What would be so... scary... that most of the clique, on both sides > of the Truce, would choose to call for backup, potentially risking the > Truce itself? (Naturally, they're going to try to get the PCs to remain > cool, and the assumption is the problem is serious enough that they'll > agree.) Well, I've got a problem that's serious enough, fer sure... problem is, it's *so* serious that Superiors will be landing like falling hailstones as soon as the true nature of what's going on is discovered (said discovering can still take a whole adventure, of course). "Our name is Legion for we are many." [1] - -- Chuckg [1] Hey, if Rafael's Remnant Forces can be floating around somewhere (as some people have theorized), why not let the other guy survive too? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:50:55 -0600 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique At 10:30 PM 19/12/00 -0500, Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki wrote: >I have some ideas as to what would motivate the Austin clique to do this, >but they're fuzzy, and I wanted some alternate opinions to my own. Any >ideas? What would be so... scary... that most of the clique, on both sides >of the Truce, would choose to call for backup, potentially risking the >Truce itself? Aggies. Lots and lots of Aggies. Umm...besides that, nope. Wait. Yes. Austin being, well, Austin, it's prime ground for the formation of an Ethereal Tether. (Damn neo-pagans hopping around, dancing nekkid in the woods, performing carnal fertility rites ... why, it's enough to drive a man wild. With anger, of course.) So maybe the Truce is threatened by an outside force. - -- I can't understand why people are | hackard@io.com afraid of new ideas. I'm frightened | AIM: Talthybias of the old ones. --John Cage | ICQ: 19083015 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:53:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique At 9:41 PM -0600 12/19/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > >[1] Hey, if Rafael's Remnant Forces can be floating around somewhere (as >some people have theorized), why not let the other guy survive too? Well, 'cause Shedim die when they go Remnant. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:57:43 -0400 From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca Subject: IN> Book query... I want to run a campaign in which Furfur has already ascended to princedom. Is there a book which has the info for him as a Prince other than Night Music? Since it is of less use if I'm running a campaign set after that adventure takes place. "30) Love is when you stare at each other from across the dinner table and make suggestive Pikachu noises at each other... While guests are present." -Mini Philip Barkow pbarkow@is2.dal.ca http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/ Harbinger of Keener-sama Vice President DPG Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper. Lapsed Discordian Head of the Keiko-chanian faction ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:02:28 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique > At 9:41 PM -0600 12/19/00, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > > > > >[1] Hey, if Rafael's Remnant Forces can be floating around somewhere (as > >some people have theorized), why not let the other guy survive too? > > Well, 'cause Shedim die when they go Remnant. Ah, but did you make sure to get *ALL* of his host bodies? He did have more than the usual issue, after all... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:01:10 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: IN> Toons! > > Hello, all. I'm back on the list after... oh, quite a while. > > Good to have you back. When are you going to finish Toonic Victory? ;) Wow, you actually remember that? Well, if there's enough demand I may dust off my old notes... ;) -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:04:02 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique > >[1] Hey, if Rafael's Remnant Forces can be floating around somewhere (as > >some people have theorized), why not let the other guy survive too? > > Well, 'cause Shedim die when they go Remnant. But Legion wasn't exactly your normal, run-of-the-mill Shedim, was he? It took everyone on both sides, including an Archangel sacrificing himself, to bring him down. And he did one thing no other Shedim has done... why not, in death, a second impossible thing? ;) -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:07:22 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique > "Our name is Legion for we are many." [1] Also, instead of Legion being still around as a remnant or some bastard child of his old Forces, perhaps some other demon has figured out Legion's trick. That could be pretty scary indeed. Or, to combine it with the other idea I've seen so far, perhaps an Ethereal of some sort has learned how to possess multiple mortals, in the name of the Goddess... -Loki (mmmm, mega-Loa) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1981 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.