From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Dec 20 14:33:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18220 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:33:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA21869 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:32:43 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:32:43 -0600 Message-Id: <200012202032.OAA21869@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1982 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, December 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1982 In this digest: Re: IN> Book query... Re: IN> Toons! Re: IN> Toons! IN> Santa's Little Helpers IN> Re: Austin clique adventures Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Re: IN> Santa's Little Helpers Re: IN> A disturbing little seed and NPC Re: IN> Book query... Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... Re: IN> Toons! IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Re: IN> Toons! Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Re: IN> [NPC] Dr. Zoltan Karolyi Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... IN> I just had the nastiest idea... Re: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... Re: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... Re: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:37:00 +1300 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Book query... Nup. Night Music is the only book with him in it. >From: pbarkow@is2.dal.ca >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Book query... >Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:57:43 -0400 > >I want to run a campaign in which Furfur has already ascended to >princedom. > >Is there a book which has the info for him as a Prince other than >Night Music? > >Since it is of less use if I'm running a campaign set after that >adventure takes place. > > >"30) Love is when you stare at each > other from across the dinner table and > make suggestive Pikachu noises at each > other... While guests are present." > -Mini >Philip Barkow pbarkow@is2.dal.ca >http://is2.dal.ca/~pbarkow/ >Harbinger of Keener-sama >Vice President DPG >Official Fashion Consultant and Hentai of the DGML >Shameless Faith/Buffy shipper. >Lapsed Discordian >Head of the Keiko-chanian faction _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:52:57 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Toons! > > Good to have you back. When are you going to finish Toonic Victory? ;) > > Wow, you actually remember that? Well, if there's enough demand I may dust > off my old notes... ;) I forget nothing, as long as it has no application within the real world. ;) Besides, -none- of the assorted Victories were ever finished: the Bixlers moved away before they completed Pagan Victory, Redneck's Dark Victory kind of petered off into apathy, Human Victory never got past the planning stages.... it'd be nice if *one* of them was completed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:04:21 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Toons! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Bertish" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:52 PM Subject: Re: IN> Toons! > Besides, -none- of the assorted Victories were ever finished: the Bixlers > moved away before they completed Pagan Victory, Redneck's Dark Victory kind > of petered off into apathy, Human Victory never got past the planning > stages.... it'd be nice if *one* of them was completed. Apathy? Nothing getting done? Hrm... sounds like Ralph's Victory has already been completed. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:29:52 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Santa's Little Helpers Yes, I am quite aware that this one can be a really mean thing to do to a bunch of innocent players. And the point would be? Feel free to enjoy: _I_ was certainly grinning over this one (which probably means that nobody else will. Odd, that)... ;) Moe Santa's Little Helpers There's been a bunch of midnight robberies in the PC's home turf lately. The targets have been large department and toy stores: the thieves have been ignoring jewelry and furs and gone right for the children's section. Any guards around have been found unconscious, but without a mark on them: that, coupled with the increased disturbance lately, should be enough to make people suspicious of celestial interference. However, a quick check shows that the stolen goods haven't been appearing locally, so it's a bit of a mystery about what precisely is happening to the stuff. Examination of the crime scene (or interviewing the affected guards) suggests that, whoever's behind this, they're pretty careful to leave behind few clues: about the only thing that can be gleaned is that there seems to be no more than two robbers. Two very good robbers, who can apparently waltz through security systems as if they weren't there: the conclusion is obvious, but just what would Servitors of Theft (or the Wind) want with toys? It's a long story. You see, once there was a major Faerie noble called Gwydion, who got stuck serving Hell for a while as part of the deal that keeps his pantheon from being eliminated. While on earth, he did what every Faerie noble tourist does: he looked through modern artistic conceptions of his kind, and vomited. Nybbas likes to let his guest workers see what the alternatives are; it keeps them motivated. However, Gwydion came away with a slightly different notion. He was an elf: this Santa fellow had plenty of elves running around; kids believed in those elves almost as much as they did in Santa. There's some Essence there, surely. Unfortunately, kids are pragmatic little buggers: if you want to manifest as one of Santa's busy workers, eventually you had better have a toy or two to give away. Sure, Gwydion could make illusions, but that's only good in the short term. He needs the real thing if he wants to keep the tykes' attention. Needless to say, making toys was right out; why, that would be _work_. No Faerie noble worth his or her salt would ever dream of working. However, they can dream of stealing quite handily. Enter Jasmine, Servitor of Theft: her Band will depend on the Brightness of the campaign. Bright campaigns will have her a Balseraph who's convinced herself that she's trying to encourage kids to obsess over things, when what she's really doing is getting up the nerve to go for Redemption. In neutral campaigns, she's an Impudite getting a bit of Essence here, a bit there, usually through belief via Gwydion (but filling up her tanks whenever she can). In darker campaigns, she's a Lilim racking up the Geas with an eye to the future. All three versions are excellent thieves. The unlikely pair have worked out a pretty straightforward methodology: once or twice a week they take a van to an appropriate store, load up, drive the van to a completely different location, then find the poorest kids they can find and give them stuff. Gwydion uses his alternate vessel to pretend to be Santa's special helper (using the occasional Song use to emphasize that he isn't just a midget, or something) who just couldn't help giving Bobby or Sue or the orphanage their toys early, just because they've been extra good this year. Jasmine acts as backup elf (though why varies from incarnation to incarnation) while also using her own Songs to make sure that no adults catch on. They've been raking in the belief hand over fist with this one. It shouldn't take too long for the PCs to work this one out (if nothing else, Nicolas, Malakite Friend of Infants and buddy to ethereal Santae everywhere, will hear about this and give a good lead or two), but the problem lies in what to do next. After all, nobody's gotten hurt, right? Except for the department stores, but they're insured: besides, the markup on toys really is obscene these days. Mixed parties will undoubtedly have Superiors who will want them to collect all the stolen goods and return them ... and Superiors who will want to know why the PCs didn't come up with this idea first. The arguments over moral relativism should be quite amusing. Even if all of your PCs happen to work for humorless toads, that won't help matters. You may be the biggest, toughest Malakim in creation, but that won't do you a bit of good when you have to take away the only doll that some little girl is ever going to have in her life. Go ahead. The girl can't hope to match your strength. She'll just watch you with quivering lips and big eyes as you jam her special toy from Santa into that garbage bag... filled with all the other special toys you've collected. That's all she can do. Except cry, of course. Yeah, Merry Christmas to you too, pal. ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:17:15 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: Austin clique adventures Let me see...well theres actually a number of things truly... *Canidate for best series of Adventures seeds in an area* A:) A Renegade/Outcast Outcast Malakim Frank Castle is called the Punisher for a reason (etc) mainly he believed that Angels weren't exactly the nicest beings in the universe either and it was his job as an Angel of Judgement to lay the smack down on them as well...not to mention all of the scum humanity tolerates. Every drug dealer, whino (useless member of society), pornographers, and blasphemer deserves an ugly death and he decides to give it to him. Unfortunately Frank here can't be caught by Judgement's triads so easily, he knows the drill too well and his efforts are disguised...unfortunately he's close to being tracked down so he has his own new target before he's brought low...and he might create just enough chaos to get away. Destroy the truth by cleansing Austin Sodom and Gammorah style. Pillar of salt to sweeten the deal. *** Wenzel is a Renegade Shedim...they're probably the most common renegade as every few years one of them gets whacky enough to believe they are the servant of Lucifer himself bent on bringing about the birth of the Apcolypse by massive carnage. The best way Wenzel knows to do this is to clue humanity in on the existence of Celestials and theres nothing like a few high profile serial killings to do that. Writing angelic script and diabolic equivalent in the blood of innoncents and Hellsworn on tethers and the home of angels is the opening start... Using his massive Wings, Claws, tail, etc and corporeal dissonance to transform press conference into a bloodbath is his next. B:) The Tsaydim The Tsaydim arn't as easy as they say to spot, frankly they look pretty much like the hunters from John Carpenter's Vampires among those that really fit in. They've found evidence of an ethereal god in Austin they've been hunting sometime... and it's time to finish him off biblical style. Unfortunately the God in Question is actually a friend to numerous Celestials and the treaty of Austin is the ultimate affront to the Tsaydim who intend to rip through as much as they can before they're done. C:) The Riders in the Sky There's something to say about Dreamshades...on occasion some crazy native American spirit slips through the cracks and entire tribes of the damn things go unnnoticed. In this case mythical Buffalo Himself was the party that escaped and gleans his essence by leading his dream herds across the West in hopes of inspiring folk. Well a travelling tether in the form of Buffalo Bill style rodeo is a tether to him and has passed down from father to son for some time. Well the latest of the sorceror tether "seneschal" isn't one that really is the brightest up in the head and studying various texts has noted that if a spirit is believed in enough that he can gain power...and given he has cancer he is under the impression that he can get Buffalo to heal him if he strengthens him... Somehwere along the way he's managed to hit on SOME bizzare mystical convergence and now Austin's tethers are getting rapidly drained of their power as he's diverted the essence SOMEHOW to flood the ethereal planes. (maybe a series of infernal and divine interventions to test Austin's clique's coherency) The Alamo now has no blokes who are rather unwilling to let anyone through and BOY do they dress odd, Buffalo in the china shop.... Need I go on? D:) The Company Show an atheist the glories of Heaven and he will convert Show a agnostic the fires of Hell and he will curse God Show a business man both and he'll figure some way to screw both sides Paul Starsmore is one of the very rare mortals who is smart enough to know Hell is a losing side yet too stupid to take note that Heaven is the key. A brillant CEO in a Mammon aided company he was a church going man (for his wife god bless her soul) who was recruited by a Malakim of Stone to help kill the demons when the angels decided to Help. Well once the battle was done he took the holy pistol given him and killed his benefactor...proceeding to have the bodies and remenants dissected as he did a background check to find out if he missed anybody. Paul now runs the only Corporation in the world which is in the business of trying to take over both Afterlives and with some tortured out songs, sufficent scientiffic study of the Symphony, etc. Paul intends something small to start with like world domination. Thus he's mobile and the Company has just moved it's HQ to Austin... E:) WHEN CONCERNED PARENTS ATTACK! A witch hunt against Satanists starts in Austin...come on...you knew it was comming. A little kid, covered in occult symbols, drained of blood. It doesn't officially break the treaty but theres a major backlash and both sides are at each other's throats as the demons quite obviously think one of their more zealous folk (Druiel is the obvious choice) murdered the kid in order to advance their agenda. The angels obviously think the demons did it because...well demons are ******** Not to mention that a number of more liberal angels (i.E. all of them) are also getting it. In truth the personage responsible is actually a man named Aleister who is a rich handsome blah blah blah sorceror whose enjoying his newfound status as a god amongst men. Binding at least one demon and a number of ethereals he's making the usual human sacrafices and acts of villany for riches, power, and youth...the usual but he's making sure that he keeps abreast of the decision and plays both sides against the middle. I mean Saminga ignores you now but if you present him the Seraph of Teenage Death on an altar and dozens of dead rivals... F:) Where's the Angelic Tylenol? Makatiel created a number of diseases that could affect Celestials and in truth it was one of the reasons that he was ordered to be destroyed by Asmodeus (Dominic just needed the fact he was an unrepetant demon). Makatiel however had a number of cultists in his service in those final days of the Black Plague and while all were either destroyed or annhilated at least some of their works describing germ and viral alchemy (centuries ahead of it's time) made it's way into the Vatican Occult Library (which really exists...at least in In Nomine). Well Percy is an old Irish Priest and Hellsworn of Asmodeus who basically spends his time debunking miracles and waiting for his get out of Hell free ticket Asmodeus has promised him upon death when he stumbles upon "De Plague upon which slays the Dead and Never Living". Shipping it off to a fanatical recruit of his in a Church in Austin the old Priest contacted his demon who promptly killed him for discovering it... Unfortunately the fanatical recruit is of the "The Devil must rise so that peace on Earth may reign after his triumphant asc..blah blah blah" type and has begun releasing the plague about Austin to test it....he hasn't perfected it yet but it's already starting to have results. If he suceeds in making it work the zealot intends to take a ride around the world bringing and end to everything.... The Asmodite is hunting him of course but isn't exactly anxious to share the credit... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:21:12 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique >Umm...besides that, nope. Wait. Yes. Austin being, well, Austin, >it's prime ground for the formation of an Ethereal Tether. (Damn >neo-pagans hopping around, dancing nekkid in the woods, performing >carnal fertility rites ... why, it's enough to drive a man wild. >With anger, of course.) Hey, I happen to be in Austin and running a game, and only two out of my five players are neopagans that go hop naked in the woods and play drums every other weekend... - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:18:47 -0600 From: "Michael" Subject: Re: IN> Santa's Little Helpers Subject: IN> Santa's Little Helpers > Yes, I am quite aware that this one can be a really > mean thing to do to a bunch of innocent players. And > the point would be? > > Feel free to enjoy: _I_ was certainly grinning over > this one (which probably means that nobody else will. > Odd, that)... You're just evil, you know that... And my gaming group is going to hate you for this... (rubbing hands together) Michael ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:28:49 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A disturbing little seed and NPC A demon prophet helplessly spouting truths from God -- gotta love it. But you *do* know that relievers are *Heavenly* spirits, don't you? If he's working away in Kronos's Archives, he's likelier to be attended by imps, unless you're playing on the disturbing overlap between the Archives and Yves's Library. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:08:43 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Book query... From: > > Is there a book which has the info for him as a Prince other than > Night Music? So far, Night Music is it. But at least it has his attunements... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:08:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... I like Santa Claus as an IN Saint, if only because so many people think he's pure fairy tale, when actually he's based on an historical bishop. And, by the way, that saint is quite popular in the Eastern Orthodox Church, so "Santa" has plenty to occupy his time in his "off" season. (There is a chip of St. Nicholas bone in a reliquary, in an Orthodox Church about thirty miles from my house.) He is also patron saint of sailors, bakers, and pawnbrokers (the three gold balls hanging over the door of a pawnshop represent the three bags of gold he threw into the stockings of three poverty-stricken maidens). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:10:26 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Toons! From: "Eric Bertish" > > Besides, -none- of the assorted Victories were ever finished: the Bixlers > moved away before they completed Pagan Victory, Redneck's Dark Victory kind > of petered off into apathy, Human Victory never got past the planning > stages.... it'd be nice if *one* of them was completed. In that case, I'll go ahead and call mine Pyrrhic Victory, just to keep it consistant with the others. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:10:09 -0500 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands > I found a source which refers to Legions, which I have adopted. It sounds > neat ("Call us Legions, for we are many") Actually, that's from the Bible, right? It's where Jesus performs this exorcism. That's the same place that In Nomine gets the name for Legion, the (Second) Deceased Demon Prince of Corruption. I think in the Biblical account, "Legion" refers to a single demon (who is many?). The idea, I think, is that the man had multiple personalities or voices in his head (insanity was usually considered a sign of demon possession) and therefor the idea of a Legion-type demon was created. Okay, now you've made me curious (pulls out Bible). Ah hah, Luke 8:30. The NRSV says, Jesus then asked him, 'What is your name?' He said, 'Legion,' for many demons had entered him. Kind of a different translation. I do like the idea of using it to represent groups of demons though. Just to clarify what I've been trying to say, since some people seem to be misunderstanding me. I understand that angels are typically classfied as Choirs in a heirarchy. What I'm saying is that the individual Choirs, in most angelology, aren't as differenciated (with different powers and such) as they are in In Nomine. The other point I was making is that the angelic heirarchy (usually consisting of nine Choirs) isn't reflected directly in Hell. That's all. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:12:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Jonathan Walton wrote: > Okay, the one place where In Nomine REALLY departs from real source > material on angels and demons is the whole idea of choirs and bands > as the equivilant of "races" or "character classes" for Celestials. > It seems that the whole idea of Choirs of angels is mainly just > there to explain the heirarchy that exists in Heaven, which is > partially one of power, but mostly one of honor, based on a > specific angel's relationship with God. Um. Remember that traditional angelology was devised in the medieval period, when human culture was divided into very distinct classes. The choirs of angels ARE described in such a way as to mimic different social classes, which, in a medieval context, are almost quasi-races. I mean, you're BORN royal, or noble, or knight/gentry, or freeman, or serf. And, in traditional angelology, the different choirs (which are indeed called "choirs") do have different responsibilities, and thus *exercise* different powers, though of course no one gave them game stats (that I know of; hey, there's no technical reason a medieval couldn't have invented roleplaying; in an era before mass media, it would have been easy for the invention to get buried...). > What's the real different between Seraphim and Cherubim in > religious lore? This is *lore*, neither doctrine nor Scripture, but: Seraphim, for instance, are associated in medieval literature with fire (the Hebrew word sounding like other Hebrew words for "fire," "serpent," and "prince"). They are also said to burn with love of God and to rank highest because they love most. Cherubim, on similar lingustic grounds, are said to be supreme in knowledge, especially knowledge of God, and of course are known from the Bible to act as guards. So IN has the top two choirs a bit swapped in nature. Thrones (~Ophanim) are supposed to excel in obedience to the Divine Will, and to be the high ministers of heaven. Skipping down the hierarchy a bit, Virtues (=Malakim) specialize in suppressing evil spirits. So IN got that "right." > The whole idea of the demonic equivilent of Choirs is completely > made up, am I right? Demons are often described in terms of their former choir, so the IN pattern of having a Band be a warping of a given Choir is following the pattern. Once again, the detailed differences in powers are modern, yes. > In fact, in the whole process of falling, the demons seem to lose > a good portion of their individuality and become, simply, demons. Cf. C. S. Lewis's pictures of Hell as a place where demons and damned souls lose individuality in a very literal way and get melted down into, and consumed by, each other. > What do you guys think of the idea of basing a non-canon campaign > on something closer to this version of Celestials? How would it > be better and how would it be worse? If you toned down the differences between choirs, you would remove attention from the game mechanics, which could be good if that would otherwise be a distraction. Also, players might tend to think of PCs less as "malakim" or "ophanim" and more as "angels," which might encourage roleplaying that was more directed toward acting sheerly heavenly and good (however the player interprets that) than acting like a choir stereotype. On the flip side, the choir mechanics give structure to the idea of playing an angel, which might be too formidably general otherwise. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:17:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Jonathan Walton wrote: > What I'm saying is that the individual Choirs, in > most angelology, aren't as differenciated (with different powers > and such) as they are in In Nomine. The other point I was making > is that the angelic heirarchy (usually consisting of nine Choirs) > isn't reflected directly in Hell. That's all. That's quite a fair assessment, yes. The choir differences exist in traditional angelology, but are much less marked and detailed. By the way, "traditional angelology" generally means that found in the early medieval book "The Celestial Hierarchies," by an author who claimed to be the first-century figure Dionysius the Areopagite, but who clearly wasn't and is thus known as Pseudo- Dionysius. There were several variant hierarchies, some composed by popes and other high clerics, some from Talmudists or Cabbalists. Lots of these can be found at the back of Gustav Davidson's "A Dictionary of Angels." But the Pseudo-Dionysian was by far the best-circulated, and is the one used as background by Dante in his Divine Comedy, and the one analyzed by Thomas Aquinas in his "Summa Theologica": http://www.newadvent.org/summa/110800.htm Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:50:45 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:16:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraph of Flowers attunement >I mean, think about it. No violence without a wicked >little Will roll; Seraphim of Flowers (and those with >that Choir Attunement) have to make that Will roll >themselves. > >How are they going to _get_ into celestial combat and >lose all their Celestial Forces in the first place? >Demon Princes? Wouldn't they just be _killed_ by a >Prince? > >Remnant Seraphim of Flowers are probably nearly as >rare as Bright Lilim, when you think about the >contortions needed to get them in that state. Curses. Yet another Evil Scheme destroyed logic, the one force in the universe I cannot defeat. I really must get a five-year-old child to be my most trusted advisor. (pause) Hmmm... Demon of Evil Overlords. Better, _Angel_ of 'Evil' Overlords... ;) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:56:43 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:04:02 -0500 From: "Kirt Dankmyer, aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions: Austin Clique >But Legion wasn't exactly your normal, run-of-the->mill Shedim, was he? >It took everyone on both sides, including an >Archangel sacrificing himself, to bring him down. And >he did one thing no other Shedim has done... why >not, in death, a second impossible thing? ;) > -Loki Hmmm. Interesting. Possibly as some kind of noncorporeal entity, spread out very very very much among humanity? Not enough to affect any one person, but instead some kind of very low-level malaise that needs to be concentrated before it can be killed. Or, wait! I know: it started out like that, but Legion migrated to the electrical/computer networks and is now lurking in the depths of the Net! It's what's behind all these computer viruses! Yeah, that could be cool. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:51:16 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Toons! At 10:10 AM -0600 12/20/00, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Eric Bertish" >> >> Besides, -none- of the assorted Victories were ever finished: the Bixlers >> moved away before they completed Pagan Victory, Redneck's Dark Victory >kind >> of petered off into apathy, Human Victory never got past the planning >> stages.... it'd be nice if *one* of them was completed. > >In that case, I'll go ahead and call mine Pyrrhic Victory, just to keep it >consistant with the others. ;;;) Oddly, you could call Queen of Hell "Bright Victory" to a degree, since it opens with the death of Lucifer and -- for a while -- Infernal Interventions didn't work. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:01:52 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands At 11:12 AM -0500 12/20/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Jonathan Walton wrote: > >Seraphim, for instance, are associated in medieval literature >with fire (the Hebrew word sounding like other Hebrew words for >"fire," "serpent," and "prince"). They are also said to burn >with love of God and to rank highest because they love most. Also, from Isaiah, 6:1-3 (The Calling of Isaiah, KJV), we have: In the year that king Uzziah died I also saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims (sic): each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said "Holy, holy, holy, *is* the LORD of hosts: the whole earth *is* full of his glory." So, the Trisagonist side is Canonical. Isaiah is later absolved by a Seraph (called a Seraphim) pressing a burning coal to his lips. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:20:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Also, from Isaiah, 6:1-3 (The Calling of Isaiah, KJV), we have: [...] > Above it stood the seraphims (sic): each one had six wings; with > twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and > with twain he did fly. The clear reference to six wings and feet (and later to hands) is why I favor picturing seraphim and balseraphs as resembling six-winged Chinese dragons. That way, they're still serpentine but have the canonical number of limbs. Earl (And I don't mean IN canon...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:33:32 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... Isn't he also the patron saint of Russia or someplace like that? I heard that's why he wears fur and drives a sleigh drawn by reindeer. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:08 AM Subject: Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... > I like Santa Claus as an IN Saint, if only because so many > people think he's pure fairy tale, when actually he's based > on an historical bishop. And, by the way, that saint is quite > popular in the Eastern Orthodox Church, so "Santa" has plenty > to occupy his time in his "off" season. (There is a chip of > St. Nicholas bone in a reliquary, in an Orthodox Church about > thirty miles from my house.) He is also patron saint of > sailors, bakers, and pawnbrokers (the three gold balls hanging > over the door of a pawnshop represent the three bags of gold > he threw into the stockings of three poverty-stricken maidens). > > Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:39:05 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands Actually, I was just misquoting the Bible to be cute. That's not where I got the idea of legions from. I don't remember exactly where I do though. Yeah, I know that Hell doesn't really have the concept of choirs. That's why I don't use them. My only real desiginations are who the demon works for, and how he was created. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Walton To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 7:10 AM Subject: IN> Re: Choirs/Bands > Actually, that's from the Bible, right? It's where Jesus performs this > exorcism. That's the same place that In Nomine gets the name for Legion, > the (Second) Deceased Demon Prince of Corruption. I think in the Biblical > account, "Legion" refers to a single demon (who is many?). The idea, I > think, is that the man had multiple personalities or voices in his head > (insanity was usually considered a sign of demon possession) and therefor > the idea of a Legion-type demon was created. > > Okay, now you've made me curious (pulls out Bible). Ah hah, Luke 8:30. > The NRSV says, > Jesus then asked him, 'What is your name?' He said, 'Legion,' for many > demons had entered him. > Kind of a different translation. I do like the idea of using it to > represent groups of demons though. > > Just to clarify what I've been trying to say, since some people seem to be > misunderstanding me. I understand that angels are typically classfied as > Choirs in a heirarchy. What I'm saying is that the individual Choirs, in > most angelology, aren't as differenciated (with different powers and such) > as they are in In Nomine. The other point I was making is that the angelic > heirarchy (usually consisting of nine Choirs) isn't reflected directly in > Hell. That's all. > > Later. > Jonathan > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:01:00 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Dr. Zoltan Karolyi Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:52:16 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: IN> [NPC] Dr. Zoltan Karolyi >Dr. Zoltan Karolyi >Or the angels of Michael and Gabriel, who have shown >up on the theory that there are going to be a big >pile of celestials around this guy and hence a big >chance to bag some demons, preferably with flaming >swords and anti-gravity kung-fu. I really liked this one. Heck, you should have sent it into Pyramid first. :) Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:42:21 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands That's cool. And if Satan is a balseraph... well, he is the Dragon (something I play up quite a bit in my comic). So the look suits him quite well. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 11:20 AM Subject: Re: IN> Choirs/Bands > Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > > Also, from Isaiah, 6:1-3 (The Calling of Isaiah, KJV), we have: > [...] > > Above it stood the seraphims (sic): each one had six wings; with > > twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and > > with twain he did fly. > > The clear reference to six wings and feet (and later to hands) is > why I favor picturing seraphim and balseraphs as resembling > six-winged Chinese dragons. That way, they're still serpentine > but have the canonical number of limbs. > > Earl > > (And I don't mean IN canon...) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:53:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN: The Creation of Saints... Bevan Thomas wrote: > Isn't he also the patron saint of Russia or someplace like that? > I heard that's why he wears fur and drives a sleigh drawn by > reindeer. Yep, his entry in an on-line saint catalog says: "Curiously enough the greatest popularity of St. Nicholas is found neither in the eastern Mediterranean nor north-western Europe, great as that was, but in Russia. With St. Andred the Apostle he is patron of the nation, and the Russian Orthodox Church even observes the feast of his translation; so many Russian pilgrims came to Bari before the revolution that their government supported a church, hospital and hospice there. He is a patron saint also of Greece, Apulia, Sicily and Loraine, and of many citiesand dioceses (including Galway) and churches innumerable." - -- http://saints.catholic.org/saints/nicholas.html "Translation" is interesting. It would imply a tradition that he was taken bodily up to Heaven. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:15:15 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... You ever hear the saying, "Daughters are God's way of punishing a man for being a man: you live in fear that they'll meet someone just like you were at that age"? Couple that with the fact that Impudites seem to be more likely than most to engender personal offspring, and there's at least one Impudite Prince with kids, and that I haven't done anything really obnoxious to Andre lately, well... ...I'll let you know how she turns out. :) Moe PS: Yes, it's silly and Bright. So? ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:18:52 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... From: "Maurice Lane" > > Couple that with the fact that Impudites seem to be > more likely than most to engender personal offspring, > and there's at least one Impudite Prince with kids, > and that I haven't done anything really obnoxious to > Andre lately, well... > > ...I'll let you know how she turns out. Don't forget to include Novalis' daughter in what you write up, Mo... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:28:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... Maurice Lane wrote: > Impudites seem to be > more likely than most to engender personal offspring Oh? I know of Rex, or whatever his name is, the Demon of Cool, and the "son" of Nybbas, but what other signs of prolificity do they have? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:31:39 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> I just had the nastiest idea... From: "Earl Wajenberg" > Maurice Lane wrote: > > > Impudites seem to be > > more likely than most to engender personal offspring > > Oh? I know of Rex, or whatever his name is, the Demon of Cool, > and the "son" of Nybbas, but what other signs of prolificity > do they have? Their ability to Charm the pants of pretty much anybody they set their sights on, given enough time. ;;;) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1982 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.