From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Dec 28 11:14:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02291 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:14:44 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA18029 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:14:38 -0600 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:14:38 -0600 Message-Id: <200012281714.LAA18029@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1995 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, December 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1995 In this digest: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine Re: IN> Clever Game Stunts (Re: GURPS In-Nomine) Re: Cel. Song of Machines (was Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine) Re: IN> The Book of Sorcerors-Artifact IN> Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter Re: IN> Christopher question Re: IN> Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter Re: IN> Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter IN> Other Archangels/Demon Princes Re: IN> The Grigori Re: IN> Other Archangels/Demon Princes Re: IN> Other Archangels/Demon Princes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:14:49 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine [snip] > >> >Hrm. I'll have to look into the mechanics of it. > >> > >>Hopefully they're fairly simple. > > > >Why? GURPS doesn't have to be simple. I mean, it's nice, but reality > >building is hardly simple. Take, for instance, creating a human being. >:) > >Hee! Well, true. But _I_ like my GURPS to be relatively intuitive. [snip] Well, yeah. But SFAIK, once I've got the rules down well enough, it becomes intuitive, no matter how complicated. Ah, the joys of long-term memory and the unconscious. > >Uh. I guess, but in a game-world where it is not merely assumed but > >outright stated that human souls LIVE ETERNAL, I should hope that death > >wouldn't be such a big deal. Now, good folk being dammed to Hell, that's >a > >different story than "merely passing on." > >I dunno -- it's a sticky sort of thing. Death and taxes and all... O:> I suppose I've still got my walls thick after all the death's I've seen.(like my father, my father's father, my father's mother, my mother's step-father, my friend Jim's dad who was my scoutmaster, my friend Rob's dad, my friend Curtis, my friend Caitlin . . .) > >Here it is: "The angels, them, could enbody themselves in human >volunteers. > >To not make doubles(?), the Demons enbodied themselves in the bodies of > >humans in the process of dying." (INS/MV pg 8) > > > >(?)- Pour ne pas faire de doublons, -I'm not sure why they wouldn't want >to > >create doubles, but hey, what do I know about Lucifer's plans. > > Perhaps it means, "not to totally duplicate" what the angels >are doing? Well, I can totally see Lucifer (a) not wanting to "copy-cat" the angels and (b) not getting many volunteers. ("Hey! Want a demon to possess your body while you go to Hell?!") Yeah. Granted, most would lie, but . . . just taking their bodies as they're leaving is probably just plain easier. :) > >I'd say that the American audience would have *more* problems with the > >"rules" used to determine who gets into heaven and who doesn't (of normal > >humans): > >[snip] > >Hee! Yes, I think that could be a bit weird. Though the "because of >PC mistake" could be an interesting stick to poke PCs with. Yup. ha ha ha Mercurian: "Way to /go/ man. Now we know for /sure/ he's in Hell." Seraph "Shut up." > >>Oh, sure -- but we're talking taking from the original here, not taking > >>one element from the original and making it map to the current status. >[...] > >>of chicken and egg which makes my head hurt. > > > >Well, I was trying to incorporate the "new ideas" of soul damage and > >soul-killing without removing the original single body status. > >Ahhh. Hm. I'm not sure if I, at least, would have _thought_ of the >"new ideas" from the old model. (Once you have celestial form on >the corporeal plane, it becomes much more obvious a design choice, >following naturally from "exposed soul.") Yeah yeah yeah \/\/ :P > >Of course, if you're going to add Soul killing to the original game, you >may > >as well change the rules for bodies (and basic world mechanics like >adding > >the Symphony so In Nomine feels more like Mage, discard the Skyscraper >model > >which no longer works all that well because of the added Forces system >and > >therefore three parallel/separate realms which feel kinda like the Astral > >Plane from GURPS Psionics . . .) > > I still kinda wished that they hadn't ruled that there was no >such thing as an ethereal form. O:p ??? In GIN you mean? In GIN I plan on A. keeping the Ethereal plane as the Astral plane and B. allowing Astral Projection users to access it like Sorcerors. This allows A. Ethereals to hang out on Earth in Ethereal form (which just makes sense to me, I mean, if Ghosts and other spirits can do it, why can't say, Zeus (aside from the fact that he's DEAD)). Celestials will NOT be able to do this little trick (unless they purchase an Ethereal attunement, probably, which their Superior will probably NOT like). B. Astral Projections Psis to interact with these Spirits C. Ethereal beings without an corporeal vessel to be aware of what's going on here on Earth. D. The Deep Astral Plane can parrallel the Marches and/or the Far Marches. > >> >their perception is a 4, or worse, a 2). > >> > >>At least you can add your Celestial Forces to that... > > > >??? A detail I seem to have missed, but feels like a "fix" to make up for >a > >system that doesn't work for mundanes/an entire class of character which >is > >kinda "stuck" with low stat _potential_, not that the same isn't true in >the > >French game. > >p. 53, Perceiving a Celestial Form. It may be a "fix" (probably for demons, >actually), but it does flow reasonably well with the "background theory" -- >the bigger your "soul," the more easily it's seen. (If you're in cel-form >yourself, you add your _own_ CelForces as well! I guess too many playtest >celestial combats had the participants wandering around going, "Duh! I >can't find him!") Most likely :) Though I don't understand why it isn't automatic for Celestial beings to see each other on the Corporeal plane within line of sight. I ignore the need for celestial form beings to see each other so long as there's nothing Corporeal "hiding" them (such as a wall, circus tent). :) > >> >Sure, there's the Songs of Nimbus, > >> >but Celestial form, the /innate/ ability of angels, COSTS ESSENCE, and >2 > >>at > >> >that. I mean, for an innate ability, I find that a bit much. > >> > >>Think of it as an innate Song... O;> > > > >Oh, and not an Attunement? > >Point. Innate attunement, then. > >> >I may just use those changes in my next game, if not my current one, > >>players > >> >willing. > >> > >> Report on how they change the feel of the game, if you do? O:> > > > >Well, I /did/ run a single INS/MV adventure with an angel of Micheal and >[....] > >The fact that it was Essenceless to use meant that it was a tool the > >players/PCs were willing to use more than their Powers, which cost Power > >Points. > >True. Hmm. > > >I feel that this reflects the "spread the Good Word" job-point which is >one > >of the duties of an Angel in Magna Veritas. > > > >Let me ponder upon this. O:> Ponder away, I look forward to your response. >[...] > >I dunno, I feel trapped by the Choir/Band definitions. Like, I don't >like > >having two of the same choir/band in the adventure, because everyone of >the > >same choir/band feels too much alike to me. > >Hrm. I felt that way at the start, but since then, I've been tweaking on >the nuances. For example, check out Zadoc in Superiors 1 (the Judgment >Seraph sample character), and then check out Jordan from the Fiat Justitia >campaign. I _think_ they're both plausible Judgment Seraphim (though >Jordan's been getting a little cracked, poor guy), if the campaign isn't >very starkly black and white, but they'd probably clash a lot if stuck >together for long... > >In Ofanim, there's Fiat for an example again -- Liz, the Trade Wheel, >and a walk-on from Galalidan, a rather young and intolerant Judgment >Ofanite. (Then there's Hush, who isn't really detailed enough to be >more than, shudder, Perky.) Likewise, there's Kol and Mazpatiel, a >pair of Judgment Elohim. And Faber and Marath for Creationer Malakim. > >And then there's the Fiat crowd of Lilim... A handful of Brights, a >selection of greenies... And how canonical is Fiat? > >"Oh, a Habbalah. I'll guess that her motive is to . . . punish." > >Ah, but consider the Habbalite Caliah, from Maya's fiction... > > >Upon relfection, I like the Cherubim, they don't feel too limited. > >Cherubim were the ones that _I_ had trouble differentiating, actually! >(But now I've got one for a character. I think the trick _is_ attuning >them to someone and then letting them bounce off that other person.) >Truth be told, initially I had trouble figuring out how anything but >Lilim or Impudites could be other than a carbon copy of every other >member. And I still have problems with this for most of the choir/bands, unless I choose to take the choir/band description with a lot of salt. I feel bad, but I often ask my players to reread the choir (band, in the case of our Bright Lilim) and ask them if their action is in character for their celestial species. >The GURPS IN book might actually help with the ones that you don't >see the expansion potential in -- it basically distills the important >part of the personality (the DISADS!) down into the GURPS disad unit, >and leaves the rest in broader strokes, just waiting for the rest >of the system to be applied. That sounds good. I'm still waiting for my copy. -sigh- > >In play, I've come to disregard most of the "personality" descriptions >and > >just used the Resonance/Dissonance conditions, I think. > >I mostly use the personality stuff as guidelines to interpret, twist, and >bounce off of, myself. (Sort of what I do with disads...) I hope that distilling them as disads in GURPS will help a lot. > >>But he brought back reinforcements and saved the day! And gave me the >idea > >>for Malakanaries! > > > >"What do we mine?" > >"Goodness from men's souls!" > >"What do our Malakanaries detect?" > >"Evil!" > > :) > >> >[...]there's never enough essence to go 'round. > >> > >>_That's_ the truth!! > > > >Really, you've found that to be true, too? Do you think its intentional? > I > >mean, I can see it, to encourage players to get their PCs to do Rites >which > >helps to further their Word in a direct and real way. > >I think it's supposed to keep the game from turning into All Superpowers, >actually. Look at how difficult Songs are to make work. So if you want >to Smite someone, you generally have to have a cinematic fight... Well, the powers in INSMV are also hard to pull over dice-wise. GURPS should bump that up the chance of success a bit. >Not sure. > > >Incidently, I don't see why Rites aren't being passed out like candy if >they > >generate Essence both for the celestial and the Word. (IIRC) > >They make diffuse Essence for the Word, and direct Essence for the >celestial -- sort of like a "loan" in the Superior's view... Poopy. > >>No more than in the original IN -- we all know that the various >Choir/Band > >>Attunements are worth different things, and that Kyriotates of Lightning > >>are one of the more munchkinable combos, right? > > > >Yes, except that in IN, character point equality isn't nearly as strong >an > >issue at it is in GURPS. IN points mean squat when you've got so little >to > >buy, unlike in GURPS. Especially when point cost equal items are so > >obviously not worth the same number of points. > >Well, the points for GURPS IN characters are "up front" about how >different they are, so a GM can _tell_ what's more likely to be >wimpy and what isn't. Uh, yeah. Which /is/ nice. Even nicer is when a low-level character is able to take care of his own. :) Shows the others that they need to use what they already have _better_ instead of wanting more and more. Stupid munchkin power gamers, grrrr... I want story and passion! Not more frickin firepower... (though, that is nice sometimes) > >the fixed points model, which is more typical for GURPS (and > >>includes the cost of the celestial "racial" template); > > > >which I imagine results in former IN players who's IN character has a >higher > >point value in GURPS to feel the shaft because they have fewer "freebie" > >points with which to customize their character relative to the other >players > >Converted characters and created characters are two different kettles of >wax. Traditionally, a converted character gets _converted_, and point >totals go hang. (There is a note that a converted character is likely >to have had some stuff for "free" that a GURPS character would have to >buy, and so they should be given some "customization points" for that.) > >Frankly, if I had converted characters and GURPS-native characters in >the same game, I'd be _certain_ to use the canon model of creation for >the native-GURPSers. Point balance would be wonky anyway, so why not >go for it... Hrm. Yeah, I can see that. May as well and keep some flavor. ( player: "Hey, his Ofanite is more powerful than my Seraph!" gm: "Um, kinda. He has more physical powers, but remember that Seraphim typically have the final decision among angels of equal rank." player: "Oh. Cool." gm: "(mumbling) not that it'll happen with these players . . ." ) >If you're all-native, then fixed-points is at least a _known_ method. Yeah, and why not pursue something a little . . . novel? > >and one where > >>all the players pick their Choir/Band and Superior, and the GM > >>allocates enough points for the most expensive comb[o]. [...] > > > >NICE. Good idea. I was thinking about something like that. > >Actually, I was thinking about starting off with 150 pts to make the >"human > >seeming" of the celestial, then just giving them the choir/band package >plus > >45 points or so to purchage Songs and Attunements. Maybe a bit more than > >45, we'll see. > >Try it with 100 for the "human seeming," then see how it tacks on with >the boosted stats celestials get. You can always give them the 50 if that >turns out not to flow well. Well, the extra 50 above 100 is to cover increased basic costs, since I'm starting Perception and Will at 10 separate from IQ, with Perception at 5pts/level, and Will at 4pts/level. Besides, I would like their human seeming to be a little more potent than a typical starting hero (100pts) and 150 is also a nice, round number. :P > >For now, we'll have the task or merely converting their characters and >I'll > >probably give them some points to customize and take advantage of GURPS > >options so they can flesh out their characters. > >Ah, good, some feedback for how the conversion chapter works.... O:> ha ha ha . . . I'll try and remember, but I'm sure I'll forget and then later think that I should make a comment (ie complain) about it. :l > >>We were trying to avoid the traps of SuperNormal that can afflict > >>high-power supernatural games.... > > > >Is that the idea that SuperNormals, no matter what their pt level, simply > >lack the sheer power that SuperPowers grant the non-Normals? > >No, it's the idea that a SuperNormal who is properly optimized can >frequently wipe the floor with Supers, in GURPS, if built on the same >number of points. - -really-??? Well, with the right equipment I can see that (see GURPS Black Ops which I LOVE). I may have a Black Ops team show up if the Psis are revealed to the proper authorities (or rival Psis). - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:37:23 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Clever Game Stunts (Re: GURPS In-Nomine) > >> > We just _do_ things like that. Surely we told you about the Dancing > >> > Anvil, no? > >> > >>...eep? > > > >Corporeal Song of Machines? > >GURPS Spells, creative use of Teleport Other and Air Golem, and one >very dead evil priest who escaped the previous deathtrap he was in... - -sounds cool- :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:55:32 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: Cel. Song of Machines (was Re: IN> GURPS In-Nomine) > >Other abuses? Dare I ask? > >As I recall, the machine needs no fuel, and will function perfectly for >the duration of the Song, which I seem to recall lasts until the >specified purpose is fulfilled. (The LC is downstairs, and I don't >feel like fetching it right now....) As a GM, I'd probably require that >the specified purpose actually be something the player *intended* to do >with the machine, but there's still a lot of room for abuse here. Oh, goodness. "Yup, this baby (car/truck/chainsaw) just never seems to run outta gas." - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:16:31 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Book of Sorcerors-Artifact >The Book of Sorcerors > >The Book of Sorcerors is kronos's secret weapon against infernal magic >wielders ever gaining great power over Hell to the point that it allows >humans some control over their final Fate...that could never be tolerated. The pages are blackened and dark with those sorcerors who have >lived, died, and met their fates but can provide valuable insights into the >lives of evil and/or selfishness they have led More interestingly are those whose pages > >are vibrant and "living" as they are constantly added onto by the magic of >the book. Illustrated by unseen forces the book details their deeds with >loving care and is even gracious enough to provide footnotes. > >The power of Kronos's attunement truly links them to this book so kronos >can >observe and record their every action for his own indominatable and vile >will. Haphitas uses the book truly as a resource for dealing with >sorcerors >whom she may not have dealt with before or in a long while and thus be >allowed an appalling lack of personal information about a subject that >allows her to make mortals overestimate her power and knowledge (though >both >at her disposal are still great even by demonic standards). The book thus >is an inestimable resource with a nearly infinite number of pages. > >The powers of the book do not end with mere observation however and the >most >dramatic use of the book's power are quite and potentially extremely >disturbing. By simply removing the pages that describe the sorceror's >gaining and using their powers a demon, angel, or even mortal can literally >strip sorcery from that person in question >The Book of course does not effect or contain information about Gabriellian >or Laurencian sorcerors (or any other who gained their magick other than >through Kronos) but they are a distinct minority compared to the Prince of >Fate. > >Adventure seed > >* A Malakim and a Seraph manage to steal the dread book of sorcery as they >begin the slow (tediously slow) destruction of sorcery on Earth as the >Malakim wishes to simply destroy every sorceror on the planet as once for >punishment and being hellsworn but the Seraph thus far refuses such a rash >act. > >* A Gremlin who once saw the book wants it for his own as a Balseraph and >intends to use it to blackmail all sorcerors into becomming full >hellsworn...or die. The Balseraph deeply resents his inferior position >under Haphitas and intends to take her word after he eliminates her with >his >power. > >-Charlemagne Very, very, cool. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:22:29 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter For many, such as Italians, cold weather conditions have always been a source of dread. Dante included a layer of Hell in which it's bitterly cold rather than a fiery furnace. Demons were depicted as blue in Last Judgment scenes in frescos in Italian churches, such as painted by Jiotto in the Arena Chapel. Anyone unfamiliar with cold weather can be devastated by its power and the painful temperatures. It can be cold as hell out there sometimes, and when people are in pain, they often become more selfish, fighting over resources, bickering among themselves, and be overall more and more unpleasant to be around. Unprotected exposure to the cold can lead to frostbite, coma, and even death. Crocell knows this. Crocell understands. Crocell the Habbalite uses this fact to separate the weak from the herd, and punish those who fail to endure Winter's misery and succumb to their less noble nature. On earth, his Demons work to ensure that people are cold, miserable, and given as many chances possible to be unhappy and selfish. And since it's always Winter somewhere on earth, Demons of Winter often get a chance to travel (and Crocell's power rarely diminishes). His older, experienced Demons have been around the globe several times. But, sometimes his Demons will choose to endure the painful heat of summer and take advantage of the heat to put humans into temperature shock. He and his demons prefer colder regions and often refuse to leave their cold surroundings (such as by entering a home), however, they can choose to do this, though it takes some effort. Dissonance Condition Demons of Winter take a point of dissonance for choosing to endure a temperature that is warmer than 60 degF for a number of hours greater than their Corporeal Forces. This means that being forced to endure such a temperature past this is not dissonant, but it would be /very/ uncomfortable and not attempting to escape /would/ be dissonant. After enduring such a temperature for Corporeal Forces hours, the demon needs to reside in a colder temperature for at least Corporeal Forces hours, else take dissonance (and suffer the "extreme" heat). Band Attunements In addition to the following attunements, all Demons of Winter are granted the skill Knowledge(Weather Prediction)/3. Using this skill works best out doors, but can be used indoors using only the Djinn of Winter band attunement at -4, or by looking outside through a window at -2. Balseraph These cold-hearted liars add their celestial forces to any use of their resonance to convince someone that it's warmer than it actually is. Many a mortal has lost his life after leaving the protection of a warm hearth unprepared for the weather thanks to a Balseraph of Winter. Djinn Crocell's Djinn are able to sense general temperature shift around them for corporeal forces x 10 miles, allowing them to move with the cold, seek cold shelters, and bring or lead their victims to colder areas. (This is a Passive (GM) perception roll for dramatic changes or when an especially cold/warm field/front comes into range.) This grants Djinn of Winter a +3 to Knowledge(Weather Prediction), and can, GM allowing help them locate walk in freezers, cryogenic facilities, furnaces, and other places that are dramatically different in temperature. Though, this ability is not at fine-tuned at the Knight of Ice distinction. Calabim The coldest killers of hell, Winter's Calabim can choose to use their resonance to cause frostbite in their victims, doubling their Corporeal forces when calculating damage. Often, Crocell will create his Calabim Vulnerable to Fire or Heat, to encourage their loyalty to and appreciation of Winter. Habbalah Perhaps the fondest users of Freeze (below), the Habbalah may use their Resonance to cause a person to feel colder than they ever have before (aside from experiencing this effect before), without actually suffering any physical damage. Treat this as the victim being incapacitated. Needless to say, they will be unable to move, let alone put up a fight. Because of their Cold Heart servitor attunement, victims resisting successfully and bouncing the effect back the Demon will have absolutely no real effect. Lilim These Tempters, aside from being the coolest lilim in Hell, receive a bonus equal to their Ethereal Forces to detect a victim's Need for warmth. Unsurprisingly, they are the most likely demons of Winter to actually bring a mortal to the warmth of the hearth (where, of course, they can be Tempted with other activities!). Shedim Crocell's shedim may remain in their celestial form indefinitely on earth if the parallel corporeal plane is below freezing in temperature (the absence of which they detect automatically if/when their 10 min x Celestial forces counter starts up). Their hosts suffer no ill effects from extreme cold. They still take band dissonance for failing to corrupt a host if more than 24 hours pass. Impudites So long as their intended victim is cold (physically), their intended victims need not be "Charmed" for the Demon to steal their Essence and their victims do not get to add their Celestial forces to their roll to resist! Servitor Attunements - -Cold Heart- (all servitors of Winter must take this attunement) Cold, no matter how extreme, will not affect the Demons of Winter. This does not make them immune to icicles in combat, but it will protect them from freezing temperatures. In fact, many Demons of Winter appear to revel in freezing temperatures, and function better at lower temperatures. (-1 modifier to all rolls in temperatures above 80 degF, -2 above 100 degF) - -Freeze- For 1 Essence per hour, with a Will + Celestial Forces roll, the demon can reduce the temperature of the area around him up to (CD times 20)deg Fahrenheit. This area moves with the demon, and can be turned off and on again (as well as raising or lowering the temperature) at will during the hour-long duration. Yes, this Attunement can be used to free the demon from taking dissonance and also to complete certain Rites. This can also be used as an attack. Human beings typically die when their core temperature drops below 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Actually freezing a human being (also completing a Rite) requires more extreme cold, temperatures at least as low as zero Fahrenheit, at least -20 degF is preferable for quick freezing. Using frozen limbs as weapons is especially intimidating to humans: frozen arm Power +1 Acc -1, frozen leg Power +2 Acc -2 (treat half a leg an arm in mechanics). Frozen fingers may be uses like daggers, Power +0, Acc +1. Frozen limb usage grants +1 to Intimidation attempts when wielding a frozen limb as a weapon. Yes, this ability used to damage a person will cause a disturbance to the Symphony. ["Hypothermia. People who were immersed in near freezing water died when their rectal temperatures fell to 75.6 degrees F. Once the body temperature falls below 94 degrees F the hypothalamus begins to lose its ability to regulate body temperature, and this ability is completely lost when the internal temperature falls to about 85 degrees F. As a result, cooling the body can cause drowsiness and even coma. Cardiorespiratory Effects. Hazards of excessive cold exposure include potential injury to both peripheral tissues and the life supporting cardiovascular and respiratory systems. The most important effect of hypothermia is on the heart. Death from hypothermia has resulted from cardiac arrest while respiration was still functional. Excessive cold exposure affects respiratory function by decreasing the respiratory rate and volume." (From http://www.emporia.edu/hper/pe768/present/tempcold.html)] Distinctions - -Knight of Ice- Demons of this rank are constantly aware of the shifts in ambient temperature around them to the degree. This can aid them greatly in predicting the weather (+1), to an even great degree if they also possess the Djinn of Winter band attunement (additional +1). Like the Knight of the Infernal Furnaces distinction, this ability can also be used as a form of infravision. - -Captain of Blizzards- For Essence, an hour long ritual, and a successful Will + Celestial Forces roll, the demon can summon a small ice storm to plague the local community, causing freezing rain, hail, tons of snow, e.g. a blizzard. The ice storm will last a number of days equal to the CD of the Will+Celestial Forces roll minus the Essence cost (see below), minimum one 12 hours (if the difference is zero or negative), and has a range of Corporeal forces miles, radiating from the point at which the ritual was performed. Essence cost modifiers: Time of Year +0 Essence if during Winter +1 Essence during fall/spring +2 Essence during summer Region +1 Essence if in a place with bitterly cold winters +2 Essence if in a place with cold winters +3 Essence if in a place with mild winters +4 Essence if in a place with no winter +6 Essence if in a place where cold weather would be impossible This means that creating an ice storm along the equator typically costs from between 4 to 8 Essence, and duration of the ice storm won't be all that long. However, its effects during those min. 12 hours are usually devastating, inducing car crashes, deaths, frostbite, and general panic. This ability does not disturb the Symphony beyond the Essence spent to invoke it. GM's can decide whether or not destroying the ritual site (hex circle, ice idol, or whatever) ends the storm. - -Baron of Ice Sculptures- These Demons are able to slow down targets with freezing temperatures, inflicting a penalty of -3 to all actions and rolls. Range is line of sight, requires concentration to activate, duration is named at time of activation (no effective time limit). This can be used as a curse, and can only be reversed by a Divine Intervention and/or whatever the GM's whim allows. Relations Allied: Saminga Associated: Beleth, Kobal, Kronos, Malphus, Neutral: all others Hostile: Andrealphus, Vapula Enemy: Belial Basic Rites Per hour at below -4° Fahrenheit +1 Per hour resting at below freezing (32° Fahrenheit) +1 Per hour resting at below -4° Fahrenheit +2 Per frozen human being (usable twice daily) +1 Chance of Invocation: 2 +1 in a freezing indoor area, or outdoors in below freezing conditions +2 in the outdoors, below freezing temperatures +3 a human victim frozen solid by natural conditions, or a community (family included) fighting over wood/coal to keep warm. +4 multiple human victims frozen solid by natural conditions, or a large natural winter storm +5 a large community (small city or suburb) where mostly everyone is fighting over fuel +6 one of the greatest winter storms ever - ---- (Note, while this was inspired by the INSMV Prince De'mon de Froid, as well as the news of the cold winter storm that has struck the south-west United States which has knocked out electrical power to large expanses of area, this is by no means a viable translation, and therefore not violation of copyright.) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:01:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Christopher question cassandra benner wrote: > I know very little about Christopher or his servants, but i thought > that the best thing for a kyriotate would be as the kids "invisible > friend". > If any of the other choirs get such a thing then all well and good, > especially the cherubim. I've thought that "invisible friend" would be a good role for a cherub of Christopher's, equipped with some kind of attunement from Blandine. Blandine and Christopher probably work often and well together. (And small children don't differentiate waking and dreaming as clearly as adults, giving the angel an opening wedge.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:28:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter Interesting. I am reminded of an article in Pyramid, published before IN came out, describing Word-bound angels and giving as an example tha Angel of Autumn, one of whose basic Rites was harvesting. Its servitors battled those of the Angels of Summer and Winter, trying to make Autumn last as long as possible in any given place and year. The Angel of Autumn itself died and was reborn annually, as I suppose the other seasonal angels would be. (Actually, it ought to be semi-annually, since three months after autumn ends in the northern hemisphere, it starts up in the southern. And by the bye, it is NOT always winter somewhere on Earth, but only half the time - -- unless you mean just "very cold," in which case yes, it's always cold in, say, Antarctica, the Arctic, or the Himalayas.) I can't find the article in the on-line archive; I read it in hardcopy, back when Pyramid still did that. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:46:10 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Crocell, Demon Prince of Winter >Interesting. I am reminded of an article in Pyramid, published >before IN came out, describing Word-bound angels and giving >as an example tha Angel of Autumn, one of whose basic Rites >was harvesting. Its servitors battled those of the Angels of >Summer and Winter, trying to make Autumn last as long as possible >in any given place and year. weird, angels fighting each over for control of the seasons . . . though it would reflect an American mindset, SFAIK. >The Angel of Autumn itself died and was reborn annually, as I >suppose the other seasonal angels would be. (Actually, it ought >to be semi-annually, since three months after autumn ends in the >northern hemisphere, it starts up in the southern. And by the bye, >it is NOT always winter somewhere on Earth, but only half the time >-- unless you mean just "very cold," in which case yes, it's always cold >in, say, Antarctica, the Arctic, or the Himalayas.) ha ha ha, thanks for the correction, Earl. I'll note it in my personal copy. And, for the record, I believe that winter-like conditions would probably suffice. The original Word of Crocell in INSMV is Cold or The Cold, depending on how you choose to translate it. I suppose given the limited duration of Winter on the planet, that would make more sense. Ignorant of that fact, I changed it to Winter and made it more of a focus. Oh, well. :) I'm sure having read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe early in childhood didn't help much. (Hrm, Ethereal plane possiblities . . .) >I can't find the article in the on-line archive; I read it >in hardcopy, back when Pyramid still did that. Cool. I kinda miss that. I wouldn't mind having been able to collect a whole lot of Pyramid magazine. -sigh- - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:51:26 -0500 From: "zlindsey" Subject: IN> Other Archangels/Demon Princes I'm sure this question has been asked before, but this talk of Crocell, Demon Prince of Cold, has made me wonder, are there any other Archangels and Demon Princes in INS/MV that got left out of In Nomine completely? Clear Skies Zach The real problem with stories is if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:23:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Grigori At 3:18 PM -0500 12/27/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Very nice. A whole of chunk of new In Nomine waiting to be >canonized. Might it get posted as canon on the SJGames pages, >in some manner, without having to wait for a book? Don't ask me -- that's SJ's realm. >Question: Does anything besides political considerations keep >the Outcast Grigori Archangel of Song from minting new angels >-- Grigori or otherwise -- while it's in exile? (Ditto David's >own canon-ready Grigori Archangel of Death.) You realize that I have only two answers available to me: #1: No, and I can't tell you whether she is or isn't because that would give things away about something which I hope to become canon. #2: Yes, and I can't tell you what they are because that would give things away about something which I hope to become canon. Either way, it boils down to "I can't talk about it," which is frustrating for everyone concerned. Feel free to speculate. In my OWN considerations, which are unlikely to become either canon or anti-canon because I don't think the subject needs to be addressed canonically, creating a celestial on any realm besides the celestial is more difficult. This would mean that any being which had a limited Essence supply (perhaps including an Outcast Superior) might not have or want to spend the raw energy required to create more Outcast angels. Besides, it would be cruel to make _more_ beings who would likely be just as punished. Either that, or taken away and "re-educated" if they were found. Think about the existance of such a being. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:09:14 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner-Thornber Subject: Re: IN> Other Archangels/Demon Princes > I'm sure this question has been asked before, but this talk of Crocell, > Demon Prince of Cold, has made me wonder, are there any other Archangels and > Demon Princes in INS/MV that got left out of In Nomine completely? Yes. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emily K. Dresner-Thornber -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:15:38 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Other Archangels/Demon Princes At 11:51 AM 12/28/00 -0500, you wrote: >I'm sure this question has been asked before, but this talk of Crocell, >Demon Prince of Cold, has made me wonder, are there any other Archangels and >Demon Princes in INS/MV that got left out of In Nomine completely? Yes. Oh yes. INS/MV has well over a hundred Superiors by this point, of all varieties. (This is in the FAQ: http://new.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/superior_faq.html#rule-demonprinces-general-001) - -EDG ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1995 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.