From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Feb 1 07:06:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA30305 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:06:11 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id HAA27047 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:01:09 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:01:09 -0600 Message-Id: <200002011301.HAA27047@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1517 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1517 In this digest: IN> Song of Souls Fwd: Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence IN> Fwd: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [John Karakash ] IN> Fwd: GM's Guide HELP?! IN> Re: GM's Guide HELP?! IN> Fwd: Re: Asmodeus IN> [Admin] Spamcatching working Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks Re: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. RE: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. Re: IN> Bright Lilim Sigil? Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence Re: IN> Khalid Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Re: IN> Khalid Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks Re: IN> Bright Lilim Sigil? Re: IN> Song of Souls Re: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Re: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. Re: IN> Bright Lilim Sigil? Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks IN> Fighting Styles Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:23:57 EST From: "Angela Smythe" Subject: IN> Song of Souls Okay guys, I have some questions for you. A Mortal can use the Songs of Souls, but can an Undead use them? One of my players wishes to have the Celestial Song of Souls (and play an Undead), and I am wondering what the Song could be used for? Would it only work on Vessels, or could it work on some humans, and if so which, ones? Thanks in Advance Angela ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:16:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:08:32 -0500 >From: John Karakash >Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence > > >Tim Groth wrote: >> >> I know this has been asked before but is there a canon explanation >> and mechanism dealing with the ethereal need for essence? >> >> Currently I have in place a Diety Attunement which indicates that >> an ethereal being is worshiped, and the amount of essence they receive >> determines how much powre that grants them. It doesn't deal with ethereals >> dying by essence starving, because I really can't think of a very good >> mechanism for that (considering they can regenerate essence naturally). > > >Have 'deity forces' which are uber-useful things. Lower forces allow >smaller effects while higher have appropriately higher. The kicker is >that each of these forces has an essence cost per day. Each essence >under what you need delivers a soul hit. If enough hits are lost in >this 'celestial combat', then a Force is lost. The ethereal can choose >whether to lose a normal force or a 'deity force'. Deity forces are >almost impossible to get back, though. > >Now, set the cost per force per day to an appropriate level and there >you have it. Ten is pretty reasonable if you want powerful ethereal >deities to be few and far between. > >Now, to simply exist as an ethereal, assume the cost exists but is >mostly paid for with 'background' essence. i.e. they get just enough >to hang on and still eke out one essence a day. If you decide that a >particular ethereal is fading from public consciousness, simply start >imposing soul hits as above. > > >-- >+============================================= >+ John Karakash - geek, writer, cook >+ Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON >+ mib2300 >+============================================= > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:16:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [John Karakash ] >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:10:34 -0500 >From: John Karakash >Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble > >Douglas Muir wrote: > >> Does a fully redeemed demon count as a renegade? Would the Game still >> claim authority over one? > > As far as the Game is concerned, yes. Now, as with all >things in Hell, things aren't perfectly clear-cut. The offending >'demon's' former Superior would also have a claim. It depends on >how badly they want the perpetrator back. > > >-- >+============================================= >+ John Karakash - geek, writer, cook >+ Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON >+ mib2300 >+============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:20:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: GM's Guide HELP?! (A public service announcement by yours truly -- if you're posting from an u-n-s-u-b-scribed address, s-u-b-scribe to the approved poster's list, in_nomine_posters-l. Ask me how if you missed the message about it.) >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:44:02 -0500 >From: John Maurer >Subject: GM's Guide HELP?! > >Umm.. Perhaps I missed this because often my work schedule requires me >to Mass Delete E-Mail. I read on here how wonderful the GMs guide is >and so I went and made my first gaming purchase in several months. (SJG >should be happy I have not purchased any gaming material except In >Nomine since my child was born 2 years ago). > >I have indeed found it a helpful and useful book (kudo's Mr. Edelstein) >except for the fact that I am missing **17** pages. Mysteriously the >pages between 32 and 49 are missing. Is this a common problem? Will >the GM Guide Suppliment have the missing pages? Do only the truly >illuminated have access to pages 33-48? I do notice that 1+7=8 and 8 is >2^3 so the law of 5s may be in effect. > >I would like to have the missing pages if possible. My extreme anguish >and mental distress is such that I may need a free copy of Superiors 1 >to survive. > >Speaks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:24:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: GM's Guide HELP?! At 9:38 AM -0600 1/30/00, John Maurer wrote: >I have indeed found [the GMG] a helpful and useful book (kudo's Mr. Edelstein) >except for the fact that I am missing **17** pages. Mysteriously the >pages between 32 and 49 are missing. Is this a common problem? No, it's not. It's a defective copy. You should contact the place you bought it from, and have the copy replaced. Bad printer, no donut! You should also contact either orders@sjgames.com or sjgames@io.com and tell them where you got the book (what store, and hopefully what distributor), when, etc. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:25:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Re: Asmodeus >From: neelk@cswcasa.com >Subject: Re: Asmodeus >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:05:54 -0500 > >"Trent" wrote: >> >> At 23:08 -0500 1/27/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >> >> >The Game isn't likely to take many chances, >> >> >> Humm.... Why? Isn't it all part of the game? I'd really like to see the >> game become something other than dark Dominic. But I guess I'll just have >> to wait till Superiors 6 or is it 4? > >Asmodeus is probably my favorite Demon Prince, since he's easily the >most malleable demon prince in the main rulebook. You can munge him >around so much and still keep him usable. > >If you want Asmodeus to be serious, then read Chapter 5 Dostoyevsky's >_The Brothers Karamozov_. It's a free-standing piece in which Ivan >relates the parable of the Grand Inquisitor, who would have burned >Christ Himself for the good of mankind. It's a weird, brilliant and >bleak story, and you can find it online: > > http://www.triton.cc.il.us/undergrad_ctr/files/grandinq.html > >This version of Asmodeus works best if you'd like a heroic archvillain >with a bleak and evil grandeur. He works well as a counterpoint to >both the flashy and morally unaware Nybbas/Andrealphus sort of evil, >and as an existential answer to Kronos. > >If you want Asmodeus for comic relief, then it's hard to beat Poo-Bah, >Lord High Everything Else, from the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta >_Mikado_. Poo-bah's love of pointless bureacracy, genial venality, and >just plain sleaziness are just very cool if you want to play up the >comic aspects of the Game. > >This version of Asmodeus also lets you play up the whole useless >middle-management/officialdom angle. Find someone who worked for the >BBC or IBM in the bad old days, watch Terry Gilliam's _Brazil_ a few >times, and you're good to go. > >The third major archetype is the Evil Adviser. Think of the role of >the villainous vizier in the stories of the _Arabian Nights_, or of >Cardinal Richelieu, or of the Machiavellian schemers of Renaissance >Italy. Here, the emphasis is placed on intrigue and politics; no >scheme is worthy of the name unless it's at least a quadruple-cross, >and cynical betrayals and alliances of convenience are the order of >the day. > >If you want to make this funny, borrow the Movers from Over the Edge; >the Game is so good at manipulation that even they themselves no >longer know what their true purpose is -- everyone has been lying and >distorting it for centuries. If you want to run it straight, then >gangster movies and noir novels are the source to rob. > >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@cswcasa.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:30:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [Admin] Spamcatching working Two spams bounced that were intended for the list. (One of them was easy to send along back to psi.net. Muwhahah!) So far, no attempts of a would- be spammer to s u b s c r i b e itself to the approved poster's list, and I will probably allow Just Anyone to get onto that list now, without my having to approve it. (Which is a definite hassle to do; I _am_ s u b s c r i b i n g people who I _know_, when I see them bouncing, to the approved poster's list now. If you're not a regular poster, then you'll need to s u b yourself.) Remember, everyone, the way to s u b s c r i b e to the approved poster's list is: send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: s*bscribe in_nomine_posters-l your@address.here Where the * is replaced with a u. If you're s u b s c r i b i n g the address you're sending from, then it will go through fine, and you need only wait about 30 minutes. If you're s u bbing from another address, I will probably have to approve that by hand, and it may take longer. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:40:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks At 3:26 PM -0800 1/27/00, David Barr wrote: >Theres a good question... Can a kyrio who does not have a vessel of >it's own (ie, not those of War or Stone) buy vessel attributes (that >is, Toughness and or Charisma levels), which then get applied to >vessels they possess? Sure -- but they have to buy the attributes for each vessel, as a normal celestial would for a normal vessel. >Can they distribute those attributes among the >vessels they possess? No. (It's just too evil for the GM otherwise.) Remember that most of these vessels require the Forces to be permanently tied up, unable to be used to possess anything else. Vessels are not, quite, hosts, and vice versa. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:40:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks At 11:39 AM +1100 1/28/00, Azrael wrote: >> p. 191 suggests that only Animals Servitors get insect vessels. I'd >> say nothing smaller than a tarentula or big scorpion, if not restrict >> to mammals and lizards. > >But can other Kyrios take over an insect? (I know that on Jordites can take >over a whole swarm) Only Jordi's can take over insects. It's their Choir Attunement. And speaking to the bugs, too. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:56:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. At 10:23 AM +0000 1/28/00, Laurent wrote: >Anyway, what about fire damage? Is there any rule for that? Unfortunately, no -- you'll have to improv something. (IIRC. There might be _something_ in the APG or CPG.) >The last time I had a player set on fire, I ruled 1d6 body hit when he got on >fire (or maybe 2, can't remember...) and then 1d6 for every following turn. Was >that close enough? This sounds perfectly in tune with the style of the rules to me. [Ofanim of Jean] >water DOES conduct electricity... >So here was my rule: everybody in contact with the water (within a certain >range) takes 1d6 body hits when the Offanite gets in, and the Offanite gets a >number of d6 body hits when he gets out. After all, it is very hard to regain >the... composure... I probably wouldn't have made the Ofanite take the hits, myself -- but I might have made him make a Precision or Agility roll to "leap" out where he wanted to go, since water isn't a very _straight line_ conductor. He might have wound up going roundandroundandround in the water, and then having to go corporeal again within it and try again... (The other suggestions, of reducing the distance that could be traveled, are also sensible ones -- and probably from those who know more than I do about electricity and water and whatnot. O:> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:59:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. At 11:50 AM -0600 1/28/00, Trent wrote: >>>Finally - pressure. Supposing a celestial had a really good diving/oxygen >>>tank, could their vessel survive the depths of the ocean or the vacuum of >>>space? >> >>I'd say no -- it's a purely _physical_ sort of thing, on a macroscopic >>level, just like a bullet or fist or sword is. > >I think that I'd let someone with a vessel/6 be a lot more tolerant of ocean >pressure changes -- after all they don't seem to mind being hit with an Uzi. Be more tolerant, sure. _Survive_? Probably not, any more than a human could. (Okay, this is a fiddly bit -- the vessel would survive with worse damage, but unless rescued somehow (or the inhabitant goes celestial), it'll still die. It's not _immune_ to the damage; it can just take more. Which is what I'm trying to mumble around and say. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:05:14 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim Sigil? At 7:55 PM +0000 1/28/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >lemme just start off by saying i love the Chior and Band sigils, [...] >what would the Bright Lilim get, though? a heart sans hook with wings >sprouting out on either side? Mira, in FotM, got a Lilim Heart-with-Hook, with a couple of wings sprouting from the hook (at the "v" of the heart"). That's the only one I know of. I don't know of any plans for jewelry for it, though -- you'd have to lobby for that. (If it shows up in jewelry, then it's pretty darn canon. I mean, how much more canon can you get than etched in metal?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:06:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence At 11:55 PM -0700 1/28/00, Tim Groth wrote: > I know this has been asked before but is there a canon explanation >and mechanism dealing with the ethereal need for essence? Not yet. My suggestion a while back was that they required a daily/weekly dose of Essence to maintain their Forces in a stable configuration. The more Forces, the more Essence... Something like 7-9 Forces, it only requires 1 Essence every now and then. More, and it requires more Essence, or more Essence more frequently, or something. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:14:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Khalid At 10:42 AM -0500 1/30/00, N.M. Wallace wrote: >I keep seeing references to him in the GM Guide, but he's not in the main >sourcebook. Right -- there wasn't enough room... He first appears in Final Trumpet, and his Very Nice expansion is in Superiors 3, which is in final editing stages even as I type. (I just did a Full Canon Nitpick there, and was nicely impressed by how that worked out.) >"The one thing you can't trade for your heart's desire is your heart." > _Memory_, Lois McMaster Bujold (Oooooo, _nice_ quote.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:26:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble At 12:08 AM -0400 1/28/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >I've got a Bright who roled an Intervention on a Celestial Song of Motion >while fighting a fellow PC angel. Ooooops. > He had to give the Seneschal a Geas-6 to get out. OOOOOOPS. Time to go Seneschal hunting... >Further complication: the Game found out about it, and is going to twist >the Seneschal's arm to use the Geas in a way that *they* find appropriate... "Make him go here. Use only part of the Geas. We'll be waiting..." >This Geas won't come into play very soon, but it will eventually. I want >to make this really alarming, upsetting, and dangerous for the PC, but >still give him a pretty decent chance of getting out with his skin [...] I'd probably play it as Deathtrap City -- the Geas doesn't have to be used all at once, remember, and the Game will probably be trying to force the Seneschal to, first, put the Bright into a place where they can catch him, and when it gets down a ways, use the Celestial Song of Affinity to track the Bright down _that_ way. (Basically, a Geas/6 to a demon, and having the Game find out about it, should be VERY HOT WATER. There's a reason the Seraphim Council forbids Brights to geas themselves to demons...) Alternately, once the Geas has been worn down a little, maybe to a Geas/3 or so, you could have the Bright's Archangel strip it off him -- possibly just in time to see the Prince of the Game wandering by with a hand on the shoulder of whoever last failed to obtain the Bright... O:> At 10:17 AM -0400 1/29/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>At 23:08 -0500 1/27/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>>What would a Baron of Greed and/or the Game want to use a Bright for? >>>Besides a footstool, I mean? >> >>The Game would probably like to retrieve the Bright and execute him, >>like any Renegade. > >Does a fully redeemed demon count as a renegade? To the Game? You betcha. >Would the Game still claim authority over one? Yup, if they could discover and catch it. _Especially_ Brights. Mind, it's always annoying to try to make an "arrest" and have an Archangel show up, but if you _didn't_ try, and your Prince found out about it... (And you _will_ be seeing Azzie every month...) >I also thought of having him steal something from Heaven... but what? A >book from the Library? A McGuffin from Progress or Creation, maybe? Files on other redeemed, from Judgment? (Sell _that_ to the Game, woo!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:26:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Khalid At 10:24 PM -0500 1/30/00, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: >On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, N.M. Wallace wrote: [Khalid] >Right now, you can only find him in The Final Trumpet. Do *not* buy that >book just to get Khalid, however... it isn't worth it. (Sorry, SJG.) (No problem; I wouldn't advocate buying it _just_ for him either.) [...] >up in Superiors 3. I've seen the playtest version, it's very good, and >well worth waiting a few months for. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:37:12 -0800 (PST) From: David Barr Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks > At 3:26 PM -0800 1/27/00, David Barr wrote: > >Theres a good question... Can a kyrio who does not have a vessel > of > >it's own (ie, not those of War or Stone) buy vessel attributes > (that > >is, Toughness and or Charisma levels), which then get applied to > >vessels they possess? > Remember that most of these vessels require the Forces to be > permanently > tied up, unable to be used to possess anything else. Vessels are > not, > quite, hosts, and vice versa. Actually,m on rereading this, i realize i mispoke when i asked the question in the first place. I should have asked, "can kyrios buy and add or distribute vessel attributes for Hosts." So i possess John, and since I have toughness 3, He suddenly, as long as I possess him, has toughness 3. And the answer is, of course, no (in canon, do as you will in your own game, etc) as i understand it. So, to elaborate on further on the original thread, there will be No kyriotate possessed hummingbirds with toughness, UNLESS they are permanent vessels. There is, of course, nothing (other than your GM) that says you cannot have David create you a STONE hummingbird, and then add additional toughness to that vessel. (I think you can buy additional levels of toughness for a stone vessel, right? At least one, since they start at 5 (still stone, just excetionally Hard stone)) Of course, that would be evil (essentially a living bullet (humingbirds are _fast_), especially when they meet the windshield of an oncoming car...) - -Daiv ===== reply to my home address -> daiv@cruzio.com she said to sit down soon you will be a father be very afraid - -Daiv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:11:43 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble At 9:17 -0500 1/29/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>At 23:08 -0500 1/27/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>>What would a Baron of Greed and/or the Game want to use a Bright for? >>>Besides a footstool, I mean? >> >>The Game would probably like to retrieve the Bright and execute him, >>like any Renegade. > >Does a fully redeemed demon count as a renegade? Technically, no. But it's still a traitor to Hell, and the Game definitely doesn't want demons thinking they can get away with that. > Would the Game still >claim authority over one? Sure, as long as no one interferes. In our game, most recently redeemed stay in Heaven, and often have a Judgment Cherub attuned to them, until they become an angel in good standing. >I also thought of having him steal something from Heaven... but what? A >book from the Library? Though the Library may resist that.... Could also be something from some angel they'd like to track using the Song of Affinity, or some relic that's hard to acquire in Hell. Information is another good one. You could, for example, ask the Lilim to find out Role names for some set of angels, or verify whether certain people are really angels, or find out if certain recently-redeemed demons are being watched, and whether they're in the corporeal realm. (This latter would be a Game request, naturally; the others could probably come from practically anyone.) Information on what specific angelic enemies are up to is also useful. (Or even setting them up for an ambush.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:17:59 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks David Barr wrote: > Actually,m on rereading this, i realize i mispoke when i asked the > question in the first place. I should have asked, "can kyrios buy and > add or distribute vessel attributes for Hosts." > So i possess John, and since I have toughness 3, He suddenly, as > long as I possess him, has toughness 3. Okay, first of all, celestials cannot have toughness, that's an attribute that only mortals possess. Other vessel attributes are likewise tied to the appropriate vessel (and/or body, as appropriate). So sex appeal, charisma are not 'floating' attributes (though kyriotates with permanent vessels can take them, of course). Some of you may think it strange that Charisma is tied to a vessel. Erm, ahem, ah, well so do I. But that's the way it is. =) Of course, one could always take the tack that Charisma (the attribute) is primarily composed of an attractive appearance, nice voice, and other non-verbal cues that put people at their ease and make someone more pleasant to be around (or more able to inspire confidence/loyalty). - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:17:17 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim Sigil? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > I mean, how much more canon can you get than etched in metal?) Carved in David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:42:50 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Song of Souls Angela Smythe wrote: > > > Okay guys, I have some questions for you. A Mortal can use the Songs of > Souls, but can an Undead use them? No. The words "human" and "mortal" are not interchangeable in In Nomine, and the choice of which to use is deliberate. Undead are not mortals. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:00:33 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Anyway, what about fire damage? Is there any rule for that? > > Unfortunately, no -- you'll have to improv something. (IIRC. There > might be _something_ in the APG or CPG.) Or on my web page, where I provided rules that were cut from the CPG. :) http://amadan.org/Innomine/GettingHurt.htm (Radiation, incidentally, is a poison, covered under the poison rules which DID make it into the CPG.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:07:31 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble Walter Milliken wrote: > Though the Library may resist that.... Could also be something from some > angel they'd like to track using the Song of Affinity, or some relic > that's hard to acquire in Hell. Interesting question: can an angelic Heart be taken to Hell (or vice versa)? Hearts can't be removed from the celestial plane, but does it say anywhere in canon that they can't be removed from their *native* celestial plane? - -David (who just realized this might've made the "Fall of the Malakim" scenario make a lot more sense...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:11:55 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble >Interesting question: can an angelic Heart be taken to Hell (or vice >versa)? > >Hearts can't be removed from the celestial plane, but does it say >anywhere in canon that they can't be removed from their *native* >celestial plane? Hmm, I'd allow it if just for sheer amusement value. The only thing that might get in the way is that I vaguely remember that some book mentions that only a Superior or the owener of a heart can move it/touch it. But that might just be me hallucinating. >-David (who just realized this might've made the "Fall of the Malakim" >scenario make a lot more sense...) I concur. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:42:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble At 5:07 PM -0800 1/31/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: >> Though the Library may resist that.... Could also be something from some >> angel they'd like to track using the Song of Affinity, or some relic >> that's hard to acquire in Hell. > >Interesting question: can an angelic Heart be taken to Hell (or vice >versa)? Unclear -- one would presumably have to ascend/descend from one realm to the other, cleanly... I'm not sure it would be a good idea to blithely say that they could be _stolen_ that way, though, by someone not their owner... Even if they could, I think that as a GM (if not a LE), I'd rule that Hearts taken outside their native environment start decaying quickly. >Hearts can't be removed from the celestial plane, but does it say >anywhere in canon that they can't be removed from their *native* >celestial plane? Not yet... I'm inclined to leave canon quiet on the issue at the moment. (Though I haven't decided entirely. Too much late-night-Pyramiding... *yawn*) >-David (who just realized this might've made the "Fall of the Malakim" >scenario make a lot more sense...) Heh. Oh, well.... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:43:38 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lil in big trouble >I'd probably play it as Deathtrap City -- the Geas doesn't have to be >used all at once, remember, and the Game will probably be trying to >force the Seneschal to, first, put the Bright into a place where they >can catch him, and when it gets down a ways, use the Celestial Song of >Affinity to track the Bright down _that_ way. Oh, the Seneschal already has a Djinn on him. >(Basically, a Geas/6 to a demon, and having the Game find out about it, >should be VERY HOT WATER. There's a reason the Seraphim Council forbids >Brights to geas themselves to demons...) Well, he ran up to Heaven as soon as it happened; a Triad found him whimpering and clinging to his Heart. They took him before Dominic... and I rolled a 1,2, check digit 6 for Dom's reaction. Even with a -2 (bad Bright, no donut) that still came out positive. Meanwhile the player and I were discussing whether to scrap the character. I didn't like the idea of losing a PC purely based on one bad Intervention roll, so I decided to let the positive reaction roll prevail; Dominic Judged that the Bright had been foolish but not wicked, and that taking the geas was the least evil under those particular circumstances (viz., preferable to being trapped in the Tether, methodically Force-stripped, tortured of all potentially useful information, and finally sent back to Hell for public execution). He's now got a Cherub of Judgement attuned to him, too. With a 6 check digit. He thinks it's for his protection. Well, it is. Partly. >Alternately, once the Geas has been worn down a little, maybe to a Geas/3 >or so, you could have the Bright's Archangel strip it off him It's Gabriel. And I've told the players that Gabe is one AA who gets an openly rolled reaction roll that is binding (i.e., she's so erratic that even the GM can't control her). So far, no one has gone to her with their little problems. >>Does a fully redeemed demon count as a renegade? > >To the Game? You betcha. Except that a Renegade can't call on an AA for help in a pinch. Surely that's got to make some difference. >>I also thought of having him steal something from Heaven... but what? A >>book from the Library? > >A McGuffin from Progress or Creation, maybe? Files on other redeemed, >from Judgment? (Sell _that_ to the Game, woo!) Ohhh yeah. But how to get past those annoying bureaucrats at Central Records? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:57:06 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Disease, radiation, pressure. > >Anyway, what about fire damage? Is there any rule for that? > > Unfortunately, no -- you'll have to improv something. (IIRC. There > might be _something_ in the APG or CPG.) What about Incendiary (Belial's attunement for those with a memory like mine)? I had always interperated it as the ability to ignite things at will. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:52:23 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim Sigil? > I mean, how much more canon can you get than etched in metal?) Etched in stone? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:05:51 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Kyrio Tricks > (I think you can buy additional levels of toughness for a stone > vessel, right? At least one, since they start at 5 (still stone, just > excetionally Hard stone)) Don't they have a protection level of 5, not a Toughness level of 5 (or has this changed in Superiors 1)? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:39:12 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: IN> Fighting Styles Somethings are ingrained into a culture or a group of people, they do it without thinking (frex I have heard, it may be a myth, but, If you give a Brazilian child a ball, whether or not he has ever even heard of soccer he will immediately drop the ball and kick it, that is how deeply that society is cosumed by a passion for soccer. Untrue perhaps, but cool none the less), they are naturally adept at it, so I was thinking that there are some fighting styles that would be better suited to certain Choirs/Bands. It would act more as the background for the manner in which the character fights, rather than any mechanics or bonus'. Or the rationale behind havind a Character with a max. skill level. Seraphim: Naturally able to spot body language, and see the true intentions of an opponents (and an allies) movements, thus being able to fight more efficiently (knowing that the guy coming from your side is about to be brained by a friend will allow you to ignore him and focus on someone else) and Dodge better. Cherubim: They would be better suited to a fighting style that promotes discipline and devotion. Ofanim: Capoira, those who practise Capoira are in constant motion, and do many impressive agility thingees, what more is there to say... Elohim: The Elohim would no doubt be proficient at Judo (and similar styles), using an opponents strength and motion against him to create a Balance. Plus their ability to read a person's emotion state will allow them to calculate how serious their opponents and allies are about the fight. Knowing how someone will react to a particular action would provide them with outstanding capabilities to pre-empt and more effectively strike an opponent and would also be more effective for psychological tactics. Malakim: The Way of the Samuri, the honour and respect involved with Samuri-ing would no doubt appeal greatly to a Malakite. So would Karate, as it requires honour, displine, devotion, however it does have some rather inhibiting rules, like; Respond with force only to extreme provocation (Come on he was a demon, how much more provocation do you need....), Or Never Strike First (No probs for Stonies) Kyriotates: Well the old Gangbashing would be a fave, but I can't think of anything really. Mercurians: The ability to read body language may help them Dodge (But not all Mercs. are as good at reading at a Merc of the Sword. Which brings me to a question ; "Can a Merc of the Sword uses his profieciency at reading Body Language in non-combat situations, i.e. to find out how someone is feeling?") Balseraphs: Bals would no doubt be good at any style in which they could feint. All Bals would be good at feinting, however this would not provide a bonus like the Bal of War attunement, it would be the style with which a Bal fights. Djinn: ??? Perhaps they wouldn't care to much about damage and pain (not really anything to do with style, more rationale for high Dodge). Calabim: They are good at anything and everything that involves them hurting and killing and smashing and whacking and.... Halabalah: Kinda similar to some of the Elohite stuff but not to such a high degree, exept for the psychological part with which they would excel. Lilim: Well let's just say that they are good at the ole' sucka punch ;) . Shedim: ??? Impudites: Chraming and thus good with psychological factors, and the suprise of an Impudite whacking someone (Sure a Combat Impu....WHAT THE *WHACK*) Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:49:43 -0600 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence > While I probably won't be messing with sorcery any time soon (any white > mages have to be NPCs who can exist outside rule sets), At the moment, that's where my white mages have to be, as well. As a GM, however, I prefer my NPC's to follow the same rules as the players, so I end up pretty driven to come up with rules to run even the NPC's by... It was quite a mental jump to handle superiors as "beyond reality", i.e. no defined rules. Worth doing in this case, but it certainly took some getting used to. > I really need to study those before I comment, but I do know some > (half-jokingly) sun-worshipers. Who would they channel essence to? Apollo? > or the sun god of another pantheon who doesn't deal with poetry and > prophecy? I'm undecided about what to do with this sort of situation. On the one hand, I'm considering ruling that even though they don't know *which* ethereal they're connecting with, there's still one particular ethereal behind each group. So one group of sun-worshippers might be sponsored by Apollo, while another might be sponsored by Ra, and so on. On the other hand, I'm also toying with the idea that, where no diety is specified, its a situation where a group of, say, sun dieties, have pooled their resources just to get their worship back up and running again. (This could lead to some rather interesting disputes when one of them feels it to be time to split off...) On the third hand, unspecified sun-worship could either be channelled directly to an abstract archetype, or to the creation of a new god... Ki's got some thinkin' to do... Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:51:10 -0600 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals and Essence > > angels? wrong?! it's just as well uriel isn't around anymore or we'd have > your head on a stick. since he got hoovered up to heaven, i guess i'll have > to put up with your blasphemy :) Well, y'see, in my campaign world there's this little problem of having forgotten the war while fighting the battles... A pretty common failing among the Host. Kiara ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1517 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.