From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Feb 4 16:13:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31251 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:13:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA20933 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:03:10 -0600 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:03:10 -0600 Message-Id: <200002042203.QAA20933@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1522 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1522 In this digest: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels IN> Trying to play well with others while playing a Malakite IN> Angelic taste in music Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Band Music IN> Stone Vessels Millenium (was Re: IN> Band Music) Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Re: Millenium (was Re: IN> Band Music) Re: IN> Angelic taste in music Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Stone Vessels Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Angelic taste in music Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. Re: IN> Trying to play well with others while playing a Malakite Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels RE: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Re: IN> Stone Vessels Re: IN> Angelic taste in music Re: IN> Angelic taste in music Re: IN> intro, and starting out Re: IN> Superiors 3 Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:57:06 -0500 From: Doctor TOC Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Dennis Groome wrote: > > ..so the Malakite blew the whole place up. The players were horrified and > questioned the Malakite. He replied, "If they go to Hell, they were evil > and deserved punishment. If they ascend to Heaven, they have received the > greatest reward for their honor." Love it. This reminds me of Gary Kilworth's book "Angel", which I shamelssly ripped off for a Chill game. In it, a policeman asks an angel who's been incinerating demons (and any mortal that's standing too close), "whatever happened to 'thou shalt not kill'?". The answer is basically "You're confusing me with a mortal. *Thou* shalt not kill. The Commandments were given to humanity, not my kind." When I dropped that on my players, they started backing away rather quickly :-) Doctor TOC - -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" ICQ # 4814586 Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar The TOC Files - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:18:36 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Emily Dresner wrote: > I, uh, always thought Kyriotates could talk in their animal vessels. > That's how it's been played for years, and I've never seen anything to the > contrary. AFAIK, Kyriotates can't talk when they possess an animal host; hosts are different from vessels. If they can, my character has been going to a lot of unnecessary trouble looking for crows, grackles, and parrots. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:27:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. At 2:52 PM -0700 2/3/00, Ben Glickler wrote: >A Cherub of Laurance can attune himself to anything he can lay eyes upon. >Does this let him to attune himself to something in a photograph? This is a bit of a tricky one. Cherubim normally have to touch, so the "use through media" just doesn't work. But this makes the resonance "ranged".... You know, I'd rather not do any ruling on this one until I saw how evil (or not) it was in a game... It seems like the ease of attunement would be off-set by not knowing what state the person was in at that moment, and then needing to track down the attuned and protect him/her. So, tell us how it works out in your game! >If the ruling is no, what other tricks are there that let an angel track an >person down when all they have is a photograph? Songs of Affinity, probably... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:26:27 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Planewalker wrote: > My question would be, "Why *would* Jordi let his petitioners talk? Would > Jordi actually believe that it would be important for his vessels to > communicate in a *human* language? To him, humans are just another > animal, no more important than any other. So why would he decide it's > important for animals to know human speech? Because humans have an enormously disproportionate impact on the world, and on all other animal life, and much of Jordi's work is spent reacting to human activities. Jordi doesn't consider humans inherently more valuable than other creatures, but it would be foolish for him to believe that they aren't important, in the sense of requiring a lot of effort to deal with one way or the other. And his Servitors aren't all as isolationist as him -- some will be dealing with Servitors of other Archangels, and some will even be dealing with humans. Since it "costs" an Archangel nothing to allow animal vessels to speak, it would be silly for Jordi to remove that ability just to make a point (a point which shouldn't need to be made to one of his Servitors). > I can see why it would be easier in a game session, but I can also > understand why Jordi, in the end, really wouldn't care whether or not his > animals can speak. "Easier in a game session" is reason enough; it's already difficult to incorporate Servitors of Jordi into many campaigns. Saying they can't talk when using their animal vessels, a disadvantage no other celestials have, will make them even less playable. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:33:27 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Walter Milliken wrote: > It did show up in the GURPS IN section on Jordi, I think. It's more > important to detail in GURPS, though, since it actually affects point values > and such. Lovely. What a brilliant way to sneak canon into the game. Good job. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:30:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Doctor TOC wrote: > Love it. This reminds me of Gary Kilworth's book "Angel", which I > shamelssly ripped off for a Chill game. In it, a policeman asks an angel > who's been incinerating demons (and any mortal that's standing too > close), "whatever happened to 'thou shalt not kill'?". The answer is > basically "You're confusing me with a mortal. *Thou* shalt not kill. The > Commandments were given to humanity, not my kind." When I dropped that > on my players, they started backing away rather quickly :-) Of course, that angel went on to Fall for being indiscriminate and refusing to obey when commanded to return to Heaven... Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:48:47 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. At 16:52 -0500 2/3/00, Ben Glickler wrote: >If the ruling is no, what other tricks are there that let an angel track an >person down when all they have is a photograph? It might be closely connected enough for the Song of Affinity to work. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:04:22 PST From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels >Emily Dresner wrote: > > I, uh, always thought Kyriotates could talk in their animal vessels. > > That's how it's been played for years, and I've never seen anything to >the > > contrary. > >AFAIK, Kyriotates can't talk when they possess an animal host; hosts are >different from vessels. > >If they can, my character has been going to a lot of unnecessary trouble >looking for crows, grackles, and parrots. > >-David And you can keep practicing that crow voice. In my campaign Kyriotates can only talk to the extant that the animal vessel has vocal cords to talk. And for my two bits most animal vessels can talk, including those of Jordi. Taking away the ability to speak would be an appropriate punishment for Jordi to impose on an angel who spent too much time meddling in human affairs. Probably coupled with the bound discord. Oh well, that's in my campaign not cannon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:36:06 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. > You know, I'd rather not do any ruling on this one until I saw how evil > (or not) it was in a game... It seems like the ease of attunement would > be off-set by not knowing what state the person was in at that moment, > and then needing to track down the attuned and protect him/her. I'm planning to keep the penalty for going through a photograph in place until the Cherub attunes himself to the person properly. He can track the guy down, but he doesn't get much information. This is the biggest room for abuse, though -- you can let Cherubim of Laurence become the feared Hounds of Heaven. Show them a photograph of an Outcast, and that angel will never, ever, ever get away. But if the Song of Affinity can do that anyway... > So, tell us how it works out in your game! The reason I ask is one of my angels, an Ofanite of Gabriel, registered the man in the photograph as fleeing justice in a very major way. They want to get this guy now, and one of the part-time players is a Cherub of Laurence... ...should I play this fairly, and give the Ofanite more leeway than four days to track the man down? Or should I play it as a tense, stressful time, giving the Ofanite dissonance until he finds the man? The second choice seems better for an exciting game, but the first choice seems much more fair. Of course, maybe the Ofanite of Gabriel shouldn't normally pick up that sort of information from photographs and images unless he's really paying attention, or the person is really, really, really fleeing justice. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:48:32 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell Doctor TOC wrote: > > Love it. This reminds me of Gary Kilworth's book "Angel", which I > shamelssly ripped off for a Chill game. In it, a policeman asks an angel > who's been incinerating demons (and any mortal that's standing too > close), "whatever happened to 'thou shalt not kill'?". The answer is > basically "You're confusing me with a mortal. *Thou* shalt not kill. The > Commandments were given to humanity, not my kind." But that angel fell in the end.... I've been tempted to run a game where *whatever* angels do always works out for the best, and *whatever* demons do causes misery and suffering. The universe is just set up that way. So if an angel opened up with an assault rifle in a crowded mall, even people killed by stray shots would have been bad enough to deserve death -- no matter what. But even if a demon decided to do something noble like sign up for Big Brother/Big Sister, the kid it mentored would take the worst possible lesson from whatever the demon said or did and turn out rotten. The PCs, of course, would be demons. Part of the interest on the player level would to play with ideas of how much intent versus consequence should matter in moral judgements. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:57:37 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell From: "Richard Gant" > > Of course, that angel went on to Fall for being indiscriminate and > refusing to obey when commanded to return to Heaven... Was that before or after he shot the Board of Directors of the Mooby corporation? ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:19:55 +1100 From: Chris Rose Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell At 05:57 PM 3/02/00 -0600, you wrote: >From: "Richard Gant" > > > > Of course, that angel went on to Fall for being indiscriminate and > > refusing to obey when commanded to return to Heaven... > >Was that before or after he shot the Board of Directors of the Mooby >corporation? ;;;) Dogma was -=finally=- released in Australia last night ... and the cinema I went to had a bad print, and the credits were cut at the end !! Complained to the manager, and I'm seeing it again for free tonight =) Get to see the whole movie, just to see the credits - Woo HOO ! Never caught it previously .. What choir was it agreed upon that Loki was ? Chris Ofanite of Lightning Angel of Phone Tech Support "Do What Thou Wilt, but Be Cool" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:58:57 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell From: "Chris Rose" > > Never caught it previously .. What choir was it agreed upon that Loki was ? I see him as a Malakim of Judgement, just because it fits him so well. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 00 19:07:21 -0600 From: Planewalker Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Emily Dresner wrote: >Because it's a game. Yeah, I know that, but in the game, Jordi wasn't made out to be all that supportive of considering the needs of people over animals in general. It's been brought up in responce to my post, but Jordi doesn't seem to me like the kind of guy who would care if the animals can't talk, because in his mind all the other angels are being arrogant by choosing human vessels to interact with humans. They don't think that there's billions of other creatures that have destinies and fates as well. And, to top it all off, they expect *his* servitors to speak *thier* language! I'll admit, if it's a problem in playing the character, then something needs to be done about it, but even though it's just a game, Jordi's personality doesn't seem to be the type to think about the needs of other servitors that want to help humans only. Planewalker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:15:50 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Trying to play well with others while playing a Malakite Two clarifications: 1) the Malakite in question is my PC and I'm a player in the campaign, not the GM. 2) Michael did not say to the Malakite, "You're in charge," he said, "I want *you* to make sure that politics and personalities don't interfere with getting the job done." Considering the other Servitors involved, I can understand that ... Jean and Marc aren't exactly the Archangels in whom Michael has the most confidence, not to mention Yves ... I think Elizabeth et al. are correct. If he has to kill someone the others want left alive, he'll do it when they aren't looking. Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:34:29 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Angelic taste in music Seraphim: Generally, anything that communicates the true feelings and beliefs of either the composer or the performer. My Seraph PC absolutely loves classical music, especially religious music -- Gregorian chant, Bach, Handel. If she's listening to *Messiah* on earphones, a demon could come up and set her on fire and she wouldn't notice until she smelled something burning. Cherubim: Love songs and songs about protection. (See the lullaby from the animated "Tarzan" for an example.) Elohim: I see them as basically "immune" to music, since it is so closely tied to emotion but doesn't actually convey them to anyone who doesn't understand and feel. (A CD cannot feel, so an Elohite's resonance wouldn't work on it. With a live performance, it's the emotions he would receive, not the medium of expression.) Ofanim: Anything that moves, from medieval galliards to "Flight of the Bumblebee" to Irish jigs to modern rock. Kyriotates: Anything with lots of parts and harmony. Malakim: "War" from Holst's "Planets." Also the thing by Beethoven where the soldiers all sing in unison about how they're going to stomp the infidels --- but I can't remember the name of it right now. Mercurians: Anything that people can sing together, whether in unison, with a chorus, or in harmony. Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:05:00 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell In a message dated 2/3/00 6:58:35 PM Central Standard Time, prodigal@ticnet.com writes: << I see him as a Malakim of Judgement, just because it fits him so well. >> Of course, Judges can't give out a punishment that does not suit the crime. These people were corrupt idolitors, but does that merit having your head blown off? And I'm still trying to figure out if he was serious about "You didn't say God Bless You when I sneezed"! I hope he was just trying to scare her or making some sick Malakite joke! That's another thing. Most Mals have very little in the way of humor, but I'll bet the ones who do would laugh at things that many of us would find horrifying. Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:17:23 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell From: > In a message dated 2/3/00 6:58:35 PM Central Standard Time, > prodigal@ticnet.com writes: > > << I see him as a Malakim of Judgement, just because it fits him so well. >> > > Of course, Judges can't give out a punishment that does not suit the crime. > These people were corrupt idolitors, but does that merit having your head > blown off? It was the other sins they were guilty of that merited death, I thought. Remember, each of the board members, except for the one innocent, had done some truly awful things. Also, let's remember that when Loki was Outcasted back sometime during the book of Genesis or thereabouts, when there was a heavy emphasis on Smiting. There's a good chance that by the punishment/crime standards that still applied back during his tenure in Heaven, death was held to be a perfectly acceptable punishment for unrepentant idolatry. > And I'm still trying to figure out if he was serious about "You didn't say > God Bless You when I sneezed"! I hope he was just trying to scare her or > making some sick Malakite joke! I thought that was a case of skirting dissonance, personally. > That's another thing. Most Mals have very little in the way of humor, but > I'll bet the ones who do would laugh at things that many of us would find > horrifying. At least some of them, yes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:43:22 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels > Where in canon does it say that Servitors of Animals can't talk in their > animal vessels? > It also brings the question how do vessels talk? Through the Standard mechanism or do they create sound through sheer force of will? Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:46:31 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Band Music > Ophanim: Anything fast. '50s songs about cruisin' in a Chevy. > Jitterbug. Strauss's "Perpetuum Mobile." Hmmm... Or One Song by Moby called Thousands, it starts off a "casual" 140 bpm, and then builds up to a frisky 1300bpm, it's the fastest song ever written (officially at least). Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:19:15 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: IN> Stone Vessels Could a stone vessel of a bird fly? Especially a hummingbird (their super-speedy wingflapping would have to be moreso). Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:00:26 +1100 From: bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Millenium (was Re: IN> Band Music) >Elohim: As someone else said, anything, but then they sit back and >analyze it. I'm sorry, but this reminds me of one of the (usually very well written) self-sendup episodes of Millenium where there's a psycho serial killer reenacting scenes from horror movies. Frank Black hasn't seen any horror movies before, so his partner sits him down with a big pile. About thirty seconds into each movie he's psychoanalysed the killer and is able to tell all of the plot twists. It was amusing. Has anyone else ever watched Millenium, or used anything from it in their campaign? Kris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 05:11:25 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Soldiers of Hell >From: Neel Krishnaswami >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >I've been tempted to run a game where *whatever* angels do always >works out for the best, and *whatever* demons do causes misery and >suffering. The universe is just set up that way. > It's definitely an interesting idea. Might require quite mature players to handle it, I think. (Otherwise you'll end up with angels regularly going on random killing sprees, and very fluffy demons.) So how do you think this would change the behaviour of Judgment/ Game? Come to think of it, the Game needn't change much, but if everything angels ever do serves Heaven by definition, shouldn't Judgment lighten up? jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 06:40:10 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: Millenium (was Re: IN> Band Music) > Has anyone else ever watched Millenium, or used anything from it in their campaign? Watched the first two seasons (religiously...) the then I stopped watching TV. It would work great for a Call of Cthulhu campaign but I think it would have to a *very* Corporeal based campaign for it to work in In Nomine. That being said I loved the series, I figure sooner or later it will be on videotape and then I see it all finally... David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:10:31 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Angelic taste in music At 22:34 -0500 2/3/00, Janet Anderson wrote: >Elohim: I see them as basically "immune" to music, since it is so closely >tied to emotion but doesn't actually convey them to anyone who doesn't >understand and feel. (A CD cannot feel, so an Elohite's resonance wouldn't >work on it. With a live performance, it's the emotions he would receive, >not the medium of expression.) This seems to assume that Elohim don't feel their own emotions. While that's often the popular view of the Choir, my understanding is that they're perfectly capable of feeling their own emotions -- they just don't let their emotions influence their decisions. Since this can often be painful, some Elohim do try to avoid getting emotional in the first place. I find that the internal conflicts this generates makes them *much* more interesting than if they were simply emotionless. Going back to the music preference, they are quite likely to have individual preferences -- it's one of the few things that isn't likely to influence the Symphony in any significant way, and thus allows them free choice. There might be some tendency toward "calm" music that helps them think rationally. Also, Elohim *would* pick up emotions from recordings -- those of the performers. (At a CD penalty, though.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:14:11 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels At 2:43 -0500 2/4/00, Azrael wrote: >It also brings the question how do vessels talk? Through the Standard >mechanism or do they create sound through sheer force of will? Given the canon in the main book on animal vessel speech, and restrictions on Kyrio hosts talking, it's fairly clear that the usual corporeal mechanisms are involved, just like they are for walking or picking up an object. Force of will is sufficient for these things only in the celestial realm. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:24:19 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stone Vessels At 3:19 -0500 2/4/00, Azrael wrote: >Could a stone vessel of a bird fly? Especially a hummingbird (their >super-speedy wingflapping would have to be moreso). I would say no -- or rather, only by using the Corporeal Song of Motion. (NC: Wings would probably also work, since I believe its effects are primarily supernatural.) Normal vessels have locomotion normal for their form, and can't do tricks that defy corporeal physics (except maybe where Strength is involved). I suppose one could argue that the extraordinary Strength of a celestial would allow them to generate enough power to make a stone bird fly, but there's also the matter that the typical bird statue doesn't have the correct structures to mimic bird flight -- you'd have to separately detail every feather, if I remember the mechanics of bird flight correctly. Even if you did this, as you point out, the wing-flapping speed would be *very* high. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:31:19 -0800 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels Walter Milliken wrote: > Given the canon in the main book on animal vessel speech, and restrictions> on Kyrio hosts talking, it's fairly clear that the usual corporeal mechanisms> are involved, just like they are for walking or picking up an object.> Force of will is sufficient for these things only in the celestial realm. I don't think this is "fairly clear" at all. If animal vessels are biologically modified to have vocal chords, we're back to wondering what happens if someone performs an autopsy on a vessel. Kyriotates can't talk in animal vessels because a host is different from a vessel. A vessel is a celestial creation; it may be a corporeal object, but it doesn't have to obey natural laws. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:15:56 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Angelic taste in music In a message dated 2/4/00 10:11:51 AM Central Standard Time, milliken@io.com writes: << Also, Elohim *would* pick up emotions from recordings -- those of the performers. (At a CD penalty, though.) >> True, but I imagine the Elohite would pick up a lot of emotions like, "Man, I'm tired of sitting in this recording studio, I want to go get pizza." Rev. Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:15:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cherub of Laurance. At 4:36 PM -0700 2/3/00, Ben Glickler wrote: [...] >I'm planning to keep the penalty for going through a photograph in place >until the Cherub attunes himself to the person properly. He can track the >guy down, but he doesn't get much information. This sounds like a good notion, definitely. >This is the biggest room for abuse, though -- you can let Cherubim of >Laurence become the feared Hounds of Heaven. Show them a photograph of an >Outcast, and that angel will never, ever, ever get away. But they have to protect that angel! O:> (Now, a Dji..ah, Cherub of Judgment with the Cherub of the Sword attunement would be really ooky.) >But if the Song of Affinity can do that anyway... Probably can. I'd have to re-read the description closely... >> So, tell us how it works out in your game! > >The reason I ask is one of my angels, an Ofanite of Gabriel, registered the >man in the photograph as fleeing justice in a very major way. They want to >get this guy now, and one of the part-time players is a Cherub of >Laurence... > >...should I play this fairly, and give the Ofanite more leeway than four >days to track the man down? Hmmmmmmmm.......... #1, I'd probably restrict the poor Ofanim of Fire to only spotting people "live." If they can get data from photos, though, I'd be cruel and give them the normal time limit if this guy is their next "locked on" target. Remember, he only gets _one_ note of dissonance, which will go away when he finally nails the guy. He just can't _stop_ looking, or the note "sticks" and the next fugitive he sees becomes the "locked on" target. >fair. Of course, maybe the Ofanite of Gabriel shouldn't normally pick up >that sort of information from photographs and images unless he's really >paying attention, or the person is really, really, really fleeing justice. (That's what I'd do. Or make it require a _deliberate_ Perception roll, which the Ofanite can make in the full knowledge that if this is a fugitive, he may well "lock on" and have to target the guy.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:22:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Trying to play well with others while playing a Malakite At 7:15 PM -0800 2/3/00, Janet Anderson wrote: >Two clarifications: 1) the Malakite in question is my PC and I'm a player >in the campaign, not the GM. Hope that you've gotten a good chunk of stuff to pitch to the GM for maximum harmony in the game... O:> (Promise to angst a lot over it? O;> ) > 2) Michael did not say to the Malakite, >"You're in charge," he said, "I want *you* to make sure that politics and >personalities don't interfere with getting the job done." Not _quite_ "don't kill evil when they get upset," but probably quite sufficient to allow a _delay_ in slaying evil overtly, to keep the rest of the group from being upset overmuch. >I think Elizabeth et al. are correct. If he has to kill someone the others >want left alive, he'll do it when they aren't looking. What they don't know won't hurt their feelings. Luck! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:24:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels At 6:43 PM +1100 2/4/00, Azrael wrote: >> Where in canon does it say that Servitors of Animals can't talk in their >> animal vessels? > >It also brings the question how do vessels talk? Through the Standard >mechanism or do they create sound through sheer force of will? GM's option. I've always assumed that it's subtle physical alterations. Of course, I also have the polydactyl cat vessel with working thumbs, so she gets "mittens" instead of just paws... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:19:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels At 2:22 PM -0500 2/3/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 14:05 -0500 2/3/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >>It did show up in the GURPS IN section on Jordi, I think. It's more >>important to detail in GURPS, though, since it actually affects point values >>and such. > >I just checked, and it is indeed set up this way. However, in GURPS, this >restriction also makes the vessel substantially cheaper in point cost, which >is a reasonable tradeoff. In Nomine GMs might want to charge less than >normal for Jordi's animal vessels, if they're not able to speak human >languages effectively. (And it's a bit of canon which may or may not cross game boundaries -- in GURPS, frankly, the way vessels are set up makes that point reduction actually fairly important. Also, Jordi's Servitors effectively get a Role/infinity while in animal vessels -- it's more a GURPSian mindset to limit that a little bit by making those vessels _animal_ vessels, not modified ones. (Which still gives them Disturbing Voice and not Mute.) It just makes a great deal of sense in GURPS, while it's more "eh" in IN.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:32:52 -0600 From: "Trent" Subject: RE: IN> Jordi's Animal Vessels >It also brings the question how do vessels talk? Through the Standard >mechanism or do they create sound through sheer force of will? > >Azrael It's an angel/demon trick, you know one of those things that make's 'm different from humans. Our rules don't apply to them (and some might suggest that our rules don't apply to us, but that's getting off topic). Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:58:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stone Vessels At 7:19 PM +1100 2/4/00, Azrael wrote: >Could a stone vessel of a bird fly? Especially a hummingbird (their >super-speedy wingflapping would have to be moreso). Oh, man... I wouldn't allow more than _maybe_ gliding, I think. Stone vessels move more slowly, IIRC... And even a glider would have to be pretty fragile, either from huge wingspan or very light stone. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:58:14 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angelic taste in music At 11:10 AM -0500 2/4/00, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 22:34 -0500 2/3/00, Janet Anderson wrote: >>Elohim: I see them as basically "immune" to music, since it is so closely >>tied to emotion but doesn't actually convey them to anyone who doesn't >>understand and feel. (A CD cannot feel, so an Elohite's resonance wouldn't >>work on it. With a live performance, it's the emotions he would receive, >>not the medium of expression.) > >This seems to assume that Elohim don't feel their own emotions. While that's >often the popular view of the Choir, my understanding is that they're >perfectly capable of feeling their own emotions -- they just don't let >their emotions influence their decisions. [...] Elohim are not Vulcans. (Though some do try to be that way.) I generally view them as being able to "compartmentalize" -- being very upset in one corner of their minds while carrying out the Necessary Actions. (And quite possibly _looking_ emotionless at the time, if there's not a reason why they should be manifesting one. Or maybe not -- can you see some poor Elohite crying sadly while blowing away a new-Fallen?) >Also, Elohim *would* pick up emotions from recordings -- those of the >performers. (At a CD penalty, though.) Also Artistry (musical) skill might be interesting that way. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:52:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Angelic taste in music Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Elohim are not Vulcans. (Though some do try to be that way.) David Edelstein has an In Nomine write-up of the cast of "Touched by an Angel," and lists the angel Tess, played by Della Reese, as an Elohite. It fits very well. She is by no means emotionless or Vulcanoid, but she NEVER lets her feelings (or yours) get in the way of what ought to happen. (Or, the few times she has, she's done a creditable rendition of feeling dissonant.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:24:44 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> intro, and starting out At 7:05 PM -0500 1/27/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 10:37 AM +1100 1/28/00, Chris Rose wrote: > >At 03:07 PM 26/01/00 -0500, you wrote: > >>At 1:39 PM +1100 1/26/00, Chris Rose wrote: > >> > > >> >Beth : Post it!! PLEASE !!!!!! > >> > >>I can't! It's illegal! Hm. Hm. Hm..... Tell ya what,though. > >>I'll see if I can get Alain to approve a PDF form of all the resonances >[...] > > > >Nuts ... The "sample text" would be cool though ... > >And I have permission on that, so that's starting. Hopefully, sometime >next week, it will exist. Looks like it'll be a PDF, at the moment. >Will include only the CD resonance tables from the main book (so no Kyrios >or Ofanim, nothing from the APG or IPG). Cross fingers that no emergencies >bump it down on the PDF-makers' lists! O:> Oh. *Very* cool. Thank you, Beth. (See Eric. See Eric catch up on a week of this list.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2000 22:00:49 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors 3 Question On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:05:18 -0500 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 12:38 AM +0000 2/2/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >> so for AA's, the sequence is 'noun & noun' where >>for DP's it's 'plural noun of the noun'? sounds fine. > Nah, that's just how it's worked out there. not a problem ;) >Future maybe-titles (not yet decided on) are: ooh, nifty! thanks! =) >Rogues and Riches (DPs) Theft, Greed, Technology?, ?? >War and Violence (DPs) the War, Death, Hardcore, Cruelty? >Peace and Nature (AAs) Animals, Children, Creation, Flowers? >The Manipulators (DPs) Fate, Factions, the Game, Nightmares? >Pillars and WIldcards (AAs, and one of the ones I expect >may get changed) umm... Revelations, maybe Creation, ?, ??? >(Hey, I had to have working titles here, y'know?) not a problem! =) working titles are fine :) hope i'm not bothering you by guessing the line-ups on some of these. -=|horsefly|=- God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. ________________________________________________________________ For the best in comics, collectibles, original art and shopping, visit the Dark Horse Network @ . ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1522 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.