From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Feb 12 00:41:55 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09472 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:41:55 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id AAA01160 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:41:26 -0600 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:41:26 -0600 Message-Id: <200002120641.AAA01160@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1528 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, February 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1528 In this digest: Re: IN> Fwd: Help for a new GM Re: IN> Shameless plug IN> The Angry Elohite... Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Re: IN> possession Re: IN> possession IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re: IN> Fwd: Help for a new GM Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Re: IN> possession Re: IN> possession Re: IN> possession Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re: IN> possession Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re: IN> possession Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re: IN> possession Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Re:IN> Locations of list people Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Re:IN> Locations of list people Re: IN> possession IN> I wandered lonely as a cloud ... IN> Truly Objective Elohim? IN> Reply to invitation IN> A URL that some might like... Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Re: IN> A URL that some might like... Re: IN> A URL that some might like... Re: IN> I wandered lonely as a cloud ... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 Re: IN> Truly Objective Elohim? Re: IN> Truly Objective Elohim? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 01:10:53 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Help for a new GM At 9:54 PM -0800 2/10/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Douglas Muir >>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> >> >> >7- Don't let anyone play a Malakim first time out. The MiB are much scarier >> >when no-one has one. >> >>Firm agreement! >> > > >I don't agree with this one. If you have a player who wants to play >a badass avenging angel, it's the perfect choir! I'm with Jo. In a lot of ways, Malakim are easier for the first time IN player than some of the others. Compared to the Kyriotates, these are perfectly straightforward. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:05:17 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Shameless plug Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:10:01 -0700From: "Ben Glickler" >I have all the flapjacked Superiors archived, should >you need them. And I >disavow any connection between my Malphas and yours. > :-) Not to sayyour >take isn't interesting... >Ben Oooh, please: I started writing these up because I couldn't find enough Heretical Superiors to feed the Need... :) I'll just have to wait on reading it until _after_ I've finished Saminga, Archangel of Fulfillment (what can I say? God apparently has a sense of humor). Wouldn't want to contaminate the mix, after all. He's going better than Malphas: I just wish I knew what my AA of Individuality is missing... Oh, and in answer to another post*, I'll be putting this stuff into HTML form ... just as soon as I learn how to use HTML. :) Morgan (F.A.W.) Kyriotate of Destiny *All hail "Bob!" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 01:07:18 -0800 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: IN> The Angry Elohite... Imagine, if you will, this: The smooth-faced power, after calmly convincing the Malak and Ofanite in the party that they shouldn't storm the infernal tether in retribution for the slain child in front of them, goes back to his room and screams and cries tears of rage at the senseless death, cursing cruel circumstance and generally being pretty unhappy. Our protagonists even makes some tortured art, a small clay statue of a man, crying and stabbing himself. What do you think? Is this dissonant? The Elohite is certainly feeling emotion; however, that isn't dissonant in and of itself. I think no, but I'm not sure... Thoughts and comments appreciated. - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 01:15:45 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... >From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >What do you think? Is this dissonant? The Elohite is certainly feeling >emotion; however, that isn't dissonant in and of itself. I think no, but >I'm not sure... > I don't think it's dissonant. It makes sense to me that the angel should wait for a time and place where it won't interfere with anything else he is supposed to do and then let it all out, harmlessly. Reminds me of an image I had of an Elohite inquisitor who'd torture heretics all day to save their souls, and spend all night crying for the ones he couldn't save. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:04:20 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> possession > OK, since I am not one of those who keeps IN books at work...yet...I can't > check this 'cept by asking those who do. I have a question that is related to this as well, and I don't have my book at work either. In the first campaign I GMed, one of my players was a Corruptor of Kobal, and another was an Ofanite of Jean (so much for the basic rules, i.e. no mixed game)... The Shedite had possessed a technician, and the Ofanite, not being sure of what was happening, decided to use the Song of Possession on the technician. I can't remember exactly how I handled the situation, but I would like to know what you guys would have done. Anyway, the Ofanite somehow managed to possess the technician, and the Shedite then decided to possess the vessel of the Ofanite who carelessly left his meat bag exposed to any danger. :) C'mon, 'twas our first campaign!!! Here again, I would like to know what would have been the best way to handle this (if any). Oh, about the basic rule "No malakite": In that first campaign, we had a Shedite of Kobal and an Habbalah of nightmares (very good combination for humoristic plots, by the way). In my second campaign, we had 2 malaks of Laurence. I thought the Malaks were easier to handle than the 2 demons. All you have to do is keep a pretty sharp contrast in your campaign... The campaign I'm about to start, however, has a very low contrast; and one of my players is a Malakite. I'm really getting worried about this one! Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:41:35 -0600 From: Matthew Trent Subject: Re: IN> possession Laurent wrote: > > The campaign I'm about to > start, however, has a very low contrast; and one of my players is a Malakite. > I'm really getting worried about this one! Don't be. If it's a bright low contrast game there won't be any problem (just not that much that qualifies as "an evil") and if it's dark low contrast game ther will just be really odd things that qualify as evil... Consider the unhappyness of a Malk of David who's disonance condition means that unless the demon throws the first punch they are still on the sidelines and havent _really_ been "an evil." Now consider the Malk of David who has made an Oath to never break his word, and promises to protect the Free Lilim in the group from harm unknowingly. Fun for all. Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:20:02 -0500 (EST) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 Douglas Muir wrote: > > >7- Don't let anyone play a Malakim first time out. The MiB are much scarier > >when no-one has one. > > Firm agreement! > I disagree. If you've got good role-players, it can be a lot of fun. Heck, Malakim can drag your other players into situations they'd just as soon not be in. My favorite character in the campaign I run is a new Malakite of War (and it's not just because he's run by my SO, either). Doesn't understand humor, is excruciatingly honest, and is trying his best to fit into society. The combination can be very funny at times. djd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:15:21 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... At 1:07 AM -0800 2/11/00, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >Imagine, if you will, this: > >The smooth-faced power, after calmly convincing the Malak and Ofanite in the >party that they shouldn't storm the infernal tether in retribution for the >slain child in front of them, goes back to his room and screams and cries >tears of rage at the senseless death, cursing cruel circumstance and >generally being pretty unhappy. Our protagonists even makes some tortured >art, a small clay statue of a man, crying and stabbing himself. > >What do you think? Is this dissonant? The Elohite is certainly feeling >emotion; however, that isn't dissonant in and of itself. I think no, but >I'm not sure... > >Thoughts and comments appreciated. Not dissonant, as far as I can tell. The Elohite is not allowing emotion to overcome his rational decisions. He is coping with the pain in a way that does not affect his judgement, after using objectivity to dissuade his comrades from a dangerously subjective path. Now, I would think that a Judgement Triad (or other authorities) might see the statue he made and perhaps have a discussion with the Elohite. After all, it could be a sign of dissonance, and emotional turmoil within an Elohite is a danger sign. But they should find no dissonance or difficulty within him and move on. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:54:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Not dissonant. It isn't even dissonant, I think, if the Elohite shows its anger to the other angels while talking them out of the rash course of action. "Hey, I'm just as sick about this as you are, but--" In fact, that might make it more persuasive. Yeah, a Judgement Triad might look at the statue and then want to look real hard at the Elohite, but they shouldn't find any dissonance because of that -- just an angel under perfectly understandable stress. (And if the Judgies *don't* understand it, *they* have a problem and the Elohite can tell them so while the Seraph can coil there and resonnate its sincerity.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:56:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Walter Milliken wrote: > Environmental damage like toxic fumes, flame, and the like should > still have an effect, I'd say. Vessels have to breathe, and I don't > see why this should be an exception. They do? What's the respiration rate for a Davidian's stone vessel? If Jean or Vapula hands out a mechanical vessel, does it have to breathe? ("Did that laptop just sigh?") Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:13:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Help for a new GM At 6:20 PM -0600 2/10/00, David Rodemaker wrote: [...] >But here are a baker's dozen "gems of wisdom" that I can pass on... > >1- Don't run a mixed group to start off. (This _may_ work if you have a demon who's Very Definitely Redeeming, or an angel doing a swan-dive, but definitely don't have a mixed group which includes more than one member of the other side, or any members who have no intention of swapping to the majority view -- unless you're running a _really_ "no contrast" game.) >5- Decide how you want to play Dominic. (He seems to spawn more debates on >the nature of Heaven than any other AA.) If you're doing demons, decide how you want to play Lilith -- _she_ tends to spawn many debates too. >11- Tatoo the rules for Disturbance onto the insides of your eyelids. They >are confusing and really impact the game. Alternately, pick one of the other formulas (such as: "1 disturbance = in the room, 10 = in the block, 100 = in the city") and etch that in stone. >12- Make sure that you have all the Errata! Some of it really changes the >way you do things in the game I have to emphasize this one _A LOT_. Ah, and an addition -- Elohim can also be very tricky to roleplay. You can have them as Vulcans, but a better explanation to a player might be: "Vulcans on the outside, marshmallows on the inside; the inside _might never show_... but it's there." Tip for players: don't create a character with umpty-million Songs. (My first one was like that...) It takes forever to perform them, and they fail a lot. If you have Songs that last hours (most NC, Corporeal Tongues), then you can take the time to perform them in private to get the necessary skill bonuses. Other stuff, you want it to be at least skill 3 or 4. I find 2-5 Songs to be about right, depending on the mix. (This is also a tip for NPCs.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:28:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... At 1:07 AM -0800 2/11/00, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >Imagine, if you will, this: > >[...]goes back to his room and screams and cries[...] > >What do you think? Is this dissonant? The Elohite is certainly feeling >emotion; however, that isn't dissonant in and of itself. I think no, but >I'm not sure... It's not dissonant if it's not ignoring a tactical necessity in favor of venting the emotions. If the Elohite honestly (not colored by its desire to vent) believes that there is nothing else better to be done about the situation, he's fine. If he's deluding himself that there's not some _other_ course of action that could lead to protecting others -- then he's dissonant. Not for the emotions, but for choosing to go and vent them for his own comfort rather than quash the manifestation of them so that he could plan how best to deal with the problem. Or so I'd rule with prettynear all my hats on. O:> (Jo's example is also good.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:34:07 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> possession At 10:04 AM +0000 2/11/00, Laurent wrote: [...] >The Shedite had possessed a technician, and the Ofanite, not being sure of what >was happening, decided to use the Song of Possession on the technician. [...] >Here again, I would like to know what would have been the best way to handle >this (if any). It's actually pretty simple... The Ofanite and Shedite have a nice little contest -- Shedite Will vs. Ofanite Song. (I'd make the Shedite roll Will to avoid the possession, and having to beat the Ofanite's CD). If the Ofanite wins, the technician's consciousness is in the Marches, the Shedite is kicked out in a floating cloud, and the Ofanite is in the technician's body while his vessel slumps. Since the Shedite can only hook into a human's brain and soul, the Shedite doesn't get to grab the vacated vessel -- UNLESS! Unless it also has the Song of Possession, in which case it can use _that_ instead of its resonance. And that's the canon unless my lack of sleep has totally fried my brains. O:> (Hey, on a first game, who gets it perfect? -- especially since the rules for multiple possessions were only really formalized in the APG, for Kyriotates.) If you _wanted_ to, you might allow the Shedite to make a Will roll right then to fall asleep (instead of a Will roll to avoid possession) and wind up in the dreamscape with the technician. This is in a very gray area of canon, though, and depends a lot on how the GM views the ability of celestials to "sleep." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:25:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> possession Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > If the Ofanite wins, the technician's consciousness is in the Marches, > the Shedite is kicked out in a floating cloud, and the Ofanite is in > the technician's body while his vessel slumps. Really? The vessel doesn't vanish into potentiality? Does it appear dead or comatose? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:33:29 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> possession Laurent wrote: > The Shedite had possessed a technician, and the Ofanite, not being sure of what > was happening, decided to use the Song of Possession on the technician. I can't > remember exactly how I handled the situation, but I would like to know what you > guys would have done. The Shedite and the technician get bonked to the Marches for the duration. :) If you're really mean, put the technician in Blandine's Marches and then /force/ the Shedite to stay until the technician wakes up. OTOH, you /could/ play Shedim like the little slugs in Wrath of Khan, and have them stick onto a brain stem rather than a mind - whereby the Ofanite would suddenly find itself subject to uncomfortable whispers and temptations from the back of its mind. :) > Anyway, the Ofanite somehow managed to possess the technician, and the Shedite > then decided to possess the vessel of the Ofanite who carelessly left his meat > bag exposed to any danger. :) While the Ofanite may have been careless, yes, the Shedite can't possess celestial vessels - only humans. ;) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:30:31 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus >> Vessels have to breathe > They do? What's the respiration rate for a Davidian's stone > vessel? If Jean or Vapula hands out a mechanical vessel, does > it have to breathe? ("Did that laptop just sigh?") Good point. I agree on the fact that a human-shaped or animal-shaped vessel breathes in order to supply energy to the muscles (kind of). But I really can't imagine a laptop or a cloud breathing. Another thing. As I said in the previous mail, I don't have my books with me, but I think the choir attunement of the Kyriotate of Janus says that the angel can assume a gazeous form. It doesn't say the gazeous form is a vessel. Could anyone confirm this? Whistle? Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:41:15 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Earl Wajenberg wrote: > They do? What's the respiration rate for a Davidian's stone > vessel? Very, very slow. A rate best described as "geological". ;) > If Jean or Vapula hands out a mechanical vessel, does > it have to breathe? ("Did that laptop just sigh?") Yup. Although it could be argued that the flow of electrons is the "breath of life" for electronics. - -EDG who should be getting his copy of GURPS IOU soon, and will become a much more evil GM when he does ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:56:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> possession At 10:25 AM -0500 2/11/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> If the Ofanite wins, the technician's consciousness is in the Marches, >> the Shedite is kicked out in a floating cloud, and the Ofanite is in >> the technician's body while his vessel slumps. > >Really? The vessel doesn't vanish into potentiality? Nope. (Admittedly, this part of the mechanics was derived from the Dark Dream stuff -- but it's now in the Liber Canticorum, explicitly, on p. 47.) >Does it appear dead or comatose? Comatose. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:45:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Laurent wrote: > I agree on the fact that a human-shaped or animal-shaped vessel > breathes in order to supply energy to the muscles (kind of). But I > really can't imagine a laptop or a cloud breathing. I believe it's canon, or nearly, that vessels breathe for what amount to symbolic reasons -- "breath of life" and the fact that in all the liturgical languages of monotheism, "breath" and "spirit" are the same word -- nothing so mundane as supplying oxygen. So let's look at the symbolism here. For SOME mechanical vessels, there *is* "breath" in the form of ventilation. Thus, a car vessel might not wear out its tires or need gas or oil, but you can "kill" it, or at least stall it, by clogging its carburator. If an electrical vessel includes a ventilation fan, maybe it HAS to get ventilated just as much as a normal machine would, though it would be able to function without normal power sources. But suppose it's a stone vessel, or a clockwork, or a sword? No obvious analogy to breath occurs to me. I think the celestial just lucks out. Such vessels have plenty of disadvantages to balance that, anyway. Now, a gaseous vessel is, so to speak, MADE of breath. I don't know that I'd require them to "breathe" in any obvious sense, but since they're the creations of Janus, it might make sense that they can't stand still for a moment without taking damage. Indeed, I always pictured these vessels as dust-devils ("dust-angels"?) or other whirlwinds. A cloud sounds possible, though. So does an odor. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:50:13 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> possession >>> If the Ofanite wins, the technician's consciousness is in the Marches, the Shedite is kicked out in a floating cloud, and the Ofanite is in the technician's body while his vessel slumps. Since the Shedite can only hook into a human's brain and soul, the Shedite doesn't get to grab the vacated vessel <<< Ok, that's what I got wrong. I didn't kick the Shedite out, and he possessed the angel without the song of possession... oops. But well, it wasn't so bad, considering the funny bit that followed: the action was taking place at the table in the cantine with other technicians at the table. When the Shedite (illegally) took control of the angel's vessel, he took a fork, stuck it in his eye, and started running and screaming around... Don't forget is was from Kobal. The angelic player never tried to possess anybody again... >>> If you _wanted_ to, you might allow the Shedite to make a Will roll right then to fall asleep (instead of a Will roll to avoid possession) and wind up in the dreamscape with the technician. <<< Brilliant!!! And if you're dealing with many Shedites/ Kyriotates/ Song of Possession performers and one very important NPC (everybody trying to possess him), they can all meet in the dreamscape. "Hey, you mister Kyrio! At the back of the queue, like everyone!". Could be fun. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:07:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus At 8:41 AM -0700 2/11/00, EDG wrote: >Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> They do? What's the respiration rate for a Davidian's stone >> vessel? >> If Jean or Vapula hands out a mechanical vessel, does >> it have to breathe? ("Did that laptop just sigh?") Laptops have inlet holes and fans -- "breathe" doesn't _necessarily_ equal "lungs." A stone vessel might require as much air as an equivalent living thing -- but it might well "respire" via its skin and the player might convince the GM that it could use (for instance) a suitable length of tail or wing as a "snorkle" when underwater. (I mean, if you drop your laptop into a tub of water, or your car into the bay (*), it stops working, right? Same for celestial-vessel laptops and cars...) > who should be getting his copy of GURPS IOU soon, and will become a >much more evil GM when he does Ooooooo, definitely. (* We did this more than once in Feast of Blades. The Kyrio of Jean was having _such_ fun with the demons and their cars. And shoelaces, and guns, and walkie-talkies... And underwear.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:11:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> possession At 3:50 PM +0000 2/11/00, Laurent wrote: [...] >The angelic player never tried to possess anybody again... So long as it _worked_ in the game... >>>> If you _wanted_ to, you might allow the Shedite to make a Will roll right >then to fall asleep (instead of a Will roll to avoid possession) and wind up in >the dreamscape with the technician. <<< > >Brilliant!!! And if you're dealing with many Shedim/ Kyriotates/ Song of >Possession performers and one very important NPC (everybody trying to possess >him), they can all meet in the dreamscape. Oh, quite! Indeed, such a result might be _well_ worth bending canon, or handwaving to say, "You're all trying so hard -- you get sucked into the dreamscape in a freak Symphonic fluctuation! (No, it's not what usually happens; the Symphony is ineffable sometimes.)" - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:27:49 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 > > >7- Don't let anyone play a Malakim first time out. The MiB are much scarier > > >when no-one has one. > > > > Firm agreement! > > > > I disagree. If you've got good role-players, it can be a lot of fun. > Heck, Malakim can drag your other players into situations they'd just as > soon not be in. I'm not saying to forever ban Malakites I'm just saying let the GM set the tone of the darkest choir for the first story. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:15:16 -0600 From: Matthew Trent Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > They do? What's the respiration rate for a Davidian's stone > vessel? If Jean or Vapula hands out a mechanical vessel, does > it have to breathe? ("Did that laptop just sigh?") Most compusters have air-coolent systems where a fan pulls in cool air creates a small humm and conviently allows an electronic vessel to cover the breathening requirement. As for stone vessals, just because they take one breath each decade dosn't meen they aren't breathing. Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:24:10 -0600 From: Matthew Trent Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 David Rodemaker wrote: > > I'm not saying to forever ban Malakites I'm just saying let the GM set the > tone of the darkest choir for the first story. There is no requrement for Malakim to be dark. (It just seems to happen a lot) Case in point Malakim of Creation are offten great at comic relif. Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:34:40 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of Janus The gaseous form of a Kyriotate of Janus isn't a vessel (at least it is presented as not being a vessel), it seems mostly to be a shield from the disturbance of moving around in celestial form on earth. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 2000 20:09:11 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re:IN> Locations of list people i'm in Hayward, California, and having a hell of a time finding local folks interested in In Nomine. Beth, any chance SJG will do a gamer registry similar to the one White Wolf maintains? -=|horsefly|=- ________________________________________________________________ For the best in comics, collectibles, original art and shopping, visit the Dark Horse Network @ . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:28:36 -0500 From: David Wood Subject: Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... Quoth Robert Veneman-Hughes (tillek@ix.netcom.com) on 2/11/00 4:07 AM... >Imagine, if you will, this: > >The smooth-faced power, after calmly convincing the Malak and Ofanite in the >party that they shouldn't storm the infernal tether in retribution for the >slain child in front of them, goes back to his room and screams and cries >tears of rage at the senseless death, cursing cruel circumstance and >generally being pretty unhappy. Our protagonists even makes some tortured >art, a small clay statue of a man, crying and stabbing himself. Dissonant? I wouldn't think so, but other GMs might make their own 'judgement' calls on this one. The way I play Elohim is that ideally, they divorce themselves from their emotions and look at things as calmly and rationally as possible. Note that word *ideally*. Elohim may freely *affect* emotion -- that is, they can remain calm inside, but provide whatever exterior they want on the outside. Consider as an example the snowboarder, all loudness and bravado on the slopes, but get him alone with other angels and he can explain his position logically, step by step, including the emotions he uses to fit in seamlessly with his 'peer group' and make sure they don't screw up. Simply by displaying the right emotions to a group, he can in a way guide and safeguard (and control) that group. Elohim may even *feel* emotion, which is more dangerous, because so long as that condition exists, there is *something* which may affect his judgement. If he does, he gets Dissonance and the Dominicans have something to sort out. Before that happens, someone might suggest that he be sent somewhere, probably a tether of Novalis (whom I consider the Florence Nightingale of Heaven), to sort out his feelings and recenter himself. To make a long story short (TOO LATE): No, he doesn't get dissonance. But he gets some attention because of it, to keep it from becoming a problem. Cause for concern in-character, but away from the gaming table, buy him a coke 'cos he's doing a bang-up job. >:) - --David http://home.bluecrab.org/~dwood "Quite frankly, I'm against people who give vent to their loquacity by extraneous bombastic circumlocution." -Monty Python, episode 13 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:51:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re:IN> Locations of list people At 8:09 PM +0000 2/11/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >i'm in Hayward, California, and having a hell of a time finding local folks interested in In Nomine. Beth, any chance SJG will do a gamer registry similar to the one White Wolf maintains? Don't ask me, that's not my department. O:> You can certainly ask for one. sjgames@io.com, I believe...? O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:29:00 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> possession Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > If the Ofanite wins, the technician's consciousness is in the Marches, > > the Shedite is kicked out in a floating cloud, and the Ofanite is in > > the technician's body while his vessel slumps. > > Really? The vessel doesn't vanish into potentiality? Does it appear > dead or comatose? Comatose, I believe, though I don't recall if this has ever been set in canon. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:03:23 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> I wandered lonely as a cloud ... The last time I was involved in a game with a gaseous demon, it was quickly established (by the Mercurian of Fire) that Smite will vaporize them quite thoroughly. Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:01:30 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Truly Objective Elohim? As a general question (instead of sending out a logical argument) is it just me or are Elohim obviously not objective because they start with the assumption God is right. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:07:12 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Reply to invitation To the gentleman (Bruce Dykes) who is trying to get together with people at Lunacon: My reply to you bounced back. Yes, my husband and I would be interested in GURPS and your party. What *is* a "bait-and-switch" GURPS game? Janet Anderson dorigen@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:11:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> A URL that some might like... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors2/img/cover_lg.jpg emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:40:22 CST From: "Justin Buhler" Subject: Re: IN> The Angry Elohite... >Imagine, if you will, this: > >The smooth-faced power, after calmly convincing the Malak and Ofanite in >the >party that they shouldn't storm the infernal tether in retribution for the >slain child in front of them, goes back to his room and screams and cries >tears of rage at the senseless death, cursing cruel circumstance and >generally being pretty unhappy. Our protagonists even makes some tortured >art, a small clay statue of a man, crying and stabbing himself. > >What do you think? Is this dissonant? The Elohite is certainly feeling >emotion; however, that isn't dissonant in and of itself. I believe it would be dissonant, as the Elohite is acting off their emotions, something very Habbalish and not good for an Elohim. That's why only the Players with the steelest nerves should take on te role of an Elohim. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:07:01 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A URL that some might like... From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors2/img/cover_lg.jpg I like it! Much nicer than Superiors 1, IMO. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:00:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> A URL that some might like... On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors2/img/cover_lg.jpg Neat! I approve. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Conspiracy religions CONvert, the Subgenius SUBverts! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:46:04 -0500 (EST) From: anthoch@earlham.edu Subject: Re: IN> I wandered lonely as a cloud ... "Janet Anderson" wrote: >The last time I was involved in a game with a gaseous demon, it was quickly >established (by the Mercurian of Fire) that Smite will vaporize them quite >thoroughly. If it's a flammable gas. ;) If not, all you get is momentary dispersal, and then the Shedite possesses that poor bastard Soldier and starts wailing on you. ;) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:32:47 -0600 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1527 > There is no requrement for Malakim to be dark. (It just seems to happen > a lot) Case in point Malakim of Creation are offten great at comic > relif. No there isn't but that is how they are portrayed in most of Canon and it is a sterotype that fits for the most part (that's why it became a stereotype...) My point is to let the GM set the tone for that choir at first and then let the plaers have one if he wants to -after the GM has let them know what the "norm" is. In the campaign I'm playing in right now the GM provided everyone with thier characters (well except me, but I sleep with her, and I could -almost- be considered a co-GM rather than a player) for exactly this reason. alakim are real easy to play but are also real easy to screw up a game with because they can really be over the top and with the wrong player that's no fun. David PS: I'll probably get nailed for that "almost a co-GM" since I merely know more of the plot than the other characters and will be playing/running a couple of powerful NPC's if they show up (You should see my Eli imitation) but I act as the primary sounding board for the real Game-Mistress. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:53:23 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Truly Objective Elohim? Tim Groth wrote: > > > As a general question (instead of sending out a logical argument) > is it just me or are Elohim obviously not objective because they start with > the assumption God is right. True, but I think accepting God as a given and basing their "objectivity" on that premise is reasonable for angelic purposes. :) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:39:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Gant Subject: Re: IN> Truly Objective Elohim? On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Tim Groth wrote: > As a general question (instead of sending out a logical argument) > is it just me or are Elohim obviously not objective because they start with > the assumption God is right. Well, you have to make *some* basic assumptions, or you'll never get anywhere... Besides - they *know* it isn't just an assumption. Just ask the Seraphim. They don't lie. (Irony may vary.) Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/4656/ The Returners Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game Site: http://returners.simplenet.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Matrix/5758/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1528 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.