From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 6 13:41:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27500 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:41:13 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA26130 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:39:18 -0600 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:39:18 -0600 Message-Id: <200003061939.NAA26130@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1545 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1545 In this digest: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Don't attach files! (Re: Looking for names?) IN> Cute Re: IN> Kyrio of Eli: Is it Restricted? Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... RE: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... IN> Cherubim of the Wind/Djinn of Theft Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... IN> Names and stoof RE: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> [ADMIN] Don't attach files! (Re: Looking for names?) Re: IN> Question on Starting Char Points. Re: IN> Stigmataphers - Variant Saints Re: IN> Stigmataphers - Variant Saints Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... RE: IN> www.incyclopedia.org (Re: Yet another Superior... And an other question...) Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:36:26 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Don't attach files! (Re: Looking for names?) >From: Michael Martin >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >It has different translations for the name "Michael," at least. The INC >one claims it means "humble," and in fact just directs you to the name >"Micah." His said it meant "Who is like to God?" I was always told my name >meant either "hand of God" or "humble before God." > A literal translation of Michael (Mi Ca-el) is "Who is like God?", as Earl says. (The implied answer is "No-one else is like the One God who created the heavens and the earth.") Should this go in the FAQ? jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 12:43:59 -0600 From: "James Bearse" Subject: IN> Cute BTW, from my own experiences with a Calabite servitor of Cute (my Bichon Frese), I can provide you with a rite for Cute: - Get out of trouble by looking adorable (+1 Essence) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 12:50:10 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio of Eli: Is it Restricted? since it specifically says Host, not Vessel, I'd rule it as Restricted. as for the Vessel from the War attunement, I wouldn't let them get away with that. - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Veneman-Hughes To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: IN> Kyrio of Eli: Is it Restricted? >Hey, all, I'm looking for as canonical an answer as can be found... > >Is the Kyrio of Eli attunment (using CelForm for free) restricted? If its >not, can it be used on vessels? For that matter, could someone with both the >Kyrio of War and Kyrio of Creation attunments use the free CelForm on their >vessel? > >Thoughts and comments, please. > >-Robert > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:13:09 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... In a message dated 03/05/2000 3:13:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, tillek@ix.netcom.com writes: > I remember reading (somewhere) that the Trinity reference in regards to > 111s/Divine Interventions was deliberate, along with an enigmatic statement > about the Trinity's significance. I think whatever it was I was reading was > canonical, but I can't for the life of me remember where it was... Can > someone who does point me in the right direction? > > Thanks, > -Robert > In Nomine main rules, Page 40. First paragraph, after the 'Number of the Beast' quote from revelation. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 16:25:22 -0800 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > In Nomine main rules, Page 40. First paragraph, after the > 'Number of the > Beast' quote from revelation. > > Mark I remember this bit... The piece I am looking for was commentary on the above paragraph. - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:25:35 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... In a message dated 03/05/2000 4:29:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, tillek@ix.netcom.com writes: > > In Nomine main rules, Page 40. First paragraph, after the > > 'Number of the > > Beast' quote from revelation. > > > > Mark > > I remember this bit... The piece I am looking for was commentary on the > above paragraph. > > -Robert > Unfortunately, there is no further commentary in the main book. This is also the only explicit reference to the Holy Spirit. Elsewhere (specifically in the APG), the force behind interventions is referred to as the Hand of God. There are *no* other references to the Trinity that I've been able to find. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:24:44 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: IN> Cherubim of the Wind/Djinn of Theft Dear List, Time for another opinion, something that doesn't seem to be covered in the FAQ. Is the Cherub of the Wind/Djinn of Theft attunement effctive against celestials? Can you force an enemy to become enthralled with you and act like a high-level servant simply by attuning yourself to them? Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:13:27 -0500 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... From: Robert Veneman-Hughes To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 7:25 PM Subject: RE: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > I remember this bit... The piece I am looking for was commentary on the > above paragraph. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Theories/ylm.html paraphrases the answer that was given... IIRC, it was a Derek Pearcey-given FAQ answer, but I can't find it. - -- Steven E. Ehrbar see@mailops.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:40:23 +1100 From: "Azrael" Subject: IN> Names and stoof http://www.angelicartistry.com/ This site has all sorts of angels and words and their meanings ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:53:23 -0800 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Theories/ylm.html > paraphrases the > answer that was given... IIRC, it was a Derek Pearcey-given > FAQ answer, but > I can't find it. Yup, that was the one I was looking for. Thanks. - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:30:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [ADMIN] Don't attach files! (Re: Looking for names?) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And Earl, you silly person, those look like names scavanged from the > INC biblenames file! You don't need to post them to the list -- you > just need to direct people to.... > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/biblenames.txt ! Oops. That may well be where I got them. I've had those lists so long, I don't remember the source. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:42:19 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Question on Starting Char Points. Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Technically the latter, by the main book. IIRC. But I think the GMG > suggests allowing this, and I don't know a GM (myself included) who > doesn't permit this. Heck, I even allow 10 points for a new Force (but > no, you don't get new points based on your new Force total!) -- that's > actually worked fine, since the resulting character is lacking 10 whole > points for skills. It does let Kyrios possess two humans, though, which > may be awful or terrific or "whatever" depending on your style and > campaign. I've not seen any problems with buying a new Force at chargen. Even with Kyrios... then again, I *like* kyrios and know their tricks. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:40:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Stigmataphers - Variant Saints Azrael wrote: > > Stigmataphers can also "reverse polarity" on their blood and use it > > to *damage*. > > Do they still lose Hit Points too? > Or Do ther again them? I intended that they lose them. Either way, they're losing blood, after all. > These guys are cool... Thank you. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:41:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Stigmataphers - Variant Saints Justin Buhler wrote: > I agree, they're very ineteresting, are there anymore you(or anyone for that > matter) wish to share? Thank you. I don't have any other In Nomine ideas up my sleeve at the moment. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:53:09 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > Unfortunately, there is no further commentary in the main book. This is also > the only explicit reference to the Holy Spirit. Elsewhere (specifically in > the APG), the force behind interventions is referred to as the Hand of God. > There are *no* other references to the Trinity that I've been able to find. I'm tempted to call this "by design". Whipping out the Trinity is likely to not only alienate all the non-Catholics in the audience, but it also brings up the question of the nature of Christ. And since it's been clearly stated that no one wants to mess with that hot potato, there aren't too many references in the text. It's not that we can't talk about it in detail here on the list, but I think all the references that you see in the books are about all you're ever going to get. Emily K. Dresner -- Writer, Guitarist, Hacker, Freak Pyramid Columnist, "Women in Gaming" -- http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ Freelancer, In Nomine -- http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ In other news Mislead Archangel of Stone, David, has been seen wearing various articles of clothing apparently fashioned from potholders. He has been quoted as saying "I've never worn clothing before, but these... What do you call 'em? Potholders... are really comfy. I'm no longer cold!" He now, stubbornly refuses to take them off. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:03:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Emily Dresner wrote: > I'm tempted to call this "by design". Whipping out the Trinity is > likely to not only alienate all the non-Catholics in the audience, > but it also brings up the question of the nature of Christ. And > since it's been clearly stated that no one wants to mess with that > hot potato, there aren't too many references in the text. I'm sure you're rught. Only say "non-Christian" rather than "non-Catholic," since the doctrine of the Trinity has a much wider circulation than just the Catholic church, large though that churhc is. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:05:12 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... For that matter, 666 is associated with the devil (or more exactly with the Beast) only in one verse from the New Testament. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 08:14:58 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... >Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:05:12 -0500 > >For that matter, 666 is associated with the devil (or more >exactly with the Beast) only in one verse from the New Testament. > I wonder if more players have seen 'The Omen' than read the New Testament ;) jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:23:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Is the d666, with its Interventions and check digit and all, part of the original French game? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:29:52 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > I'm sure you're rught. Only say "non-Christian" rather than > "non-Catholic," since the doctrine of the Trinity has a much wider > circulation than just the Catholic church, large though that churhc is. I blame it on the brainwashing that comes from reading 200 pages of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in one sitting on Saturday. And there's a rather lengthy bit which explains the Nicene Creed. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 16:28:06 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Is the d666, with its Interventions and check digit and all, part > of the original French game? The d666 was indeed part of INS/MV, but the original game uses a table rather than a 2d6 roll plus 1d6 check digit - showing its age rather badly as a result. In fact, it sometimes uses just a d66 to roll on the table. There are no Interventions in INS/MV. Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:13:24 EST From: SdshowTim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... 666 is the number equivellent of Nero's name, if I remember correctly. Regardless its the number of a roman emperer who was anti-christian. Since money had the face of the emperer, or 'mark of the beast' it was required to do busness. I'm lucky I was raised in a liberal christian tradition, where such things are discussed rationally. But anyway the entire trinity/666 thing may have some validity (at least in IN). Lucifer may well have co-opted the 666, etc to get the essence flow from it. About the trinity I don't think IN canon would benifit from having then nature of Jesus come into play/be reveiled in official events. I like using JC in different ways in different campeigns (he's been a soldier of God, Eli made manifest, God made manifest, a divine sorcerer and one time just a good guy, in campeigns i've been involved in). Of course any three fold God implies a divine trinity, whetehr its the Father-Son-Holy Spirit of christianity. It may well be that God is just the collective of Yves-Eli-Gabriel (or any other such Archangels). The Metatron wast the focrum of that collective, a unified voice for it to use and to orgaise the disperate natures. So when Lucifer killed the mofo he succeded in crippling God, and making it a trinity instead of a three part unity. Just some insane ramblings. Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanim of Creation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:24:51 -0800 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> www.incyclopedia.org (Re: Yet another Superior... And an other question...) At one point, I was looking for help, but I currently have a _wonderful_ helper in Diane Donaldson. She's making amazing progress on the data, and I'm working on the framework. We'll be caught up in, oh, just ten or twelve millenia. steve - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy [mailto:emccoy@nh.ultranet.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 3:40 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: IN> www.incyclopedia.org (Re: Yet another Superior... And another question...) At 2:15 PM +0000 2/28/00, Laurent wrote: >Now, I know that's a long shot, but is there any database of important NPCs >anywere? www.incyclopedia.org has a nice selection -- the maintainer (Steve Feldon, unless Iolanthe has _totally_ sucked my Essence that I'd otherwise spend making Int rolls...) was, at one point, asking for some help entering in more data from the newer books. - --Beth, catching up as she can, while running back and forth to the hospital to visit her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe Lynn Cayce McCoy, aka Io-chan, aka the little reliever. (Don't believe it -- she's already Charming the nursing staff!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:25:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... SdshowTim@aol.com wrote: > 666 is the number equivellent of Nero's name, if I remember > correctly. Regardless its the number of a roman emperer who was > anti-christian. That is one of several interpretations. Decoding 666 is a popular fringey Christian thing to do. > Since money had the face of the emperer, or 'mark of the beast' it > was required to do busness. My own suspicion is that the "mark of the Beast" was the sin of committing emperor-worship, which was the issue that was getting Christians thrown to lions around the time Revelation was being written. > Lucifer may well have co-opted the 666, etc to get the essence > flow from it. Only 666 doesn't really show up much at the character level. > So when Lucifer killed the mofo he succeded in crippling God, and > making it a trinity instead of a three part unity. A trinity IS a three-part unity. What's a "mofo"? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:42:58 -0600 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... - -----Original Message----- From: Emily Dresner To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, March 06, 2000 10:34 AM Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > >> I'm sure you're rught. Only say "non-Christian" rather than >> "non-Catholic," since the doctrine of the Trinity has a much wider >> circulation than just the Catholic church, large though that churhc is. > > >I blame it on the brainwashing that comes from reading 200 pages of the >Catechism of the Catholic Church in one sitting on Saturday. And there's >a rather lengthy bit which explains the Nicene Creed. Hey, it made sense to those of us raised Unitarian. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:50:06 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > 666 is the number equivellent of Nero's name, if I remember correctly. > Regardless its the number of a roman emperer who was anti-christian. > Since money had the face of the emperer, or 'mark of the beast' it was > required to do busness. Right-o. I read that essay on the Mark of the Beast and the dissemenation of Revelations to real world events in and around 69AD. There's a link to it on d|i|s|i|n|f|o|r|m|a|t|i|o|n. ... And speaking of www.disinfo.com, there's more junk up there to fuel a good, solid In Nomine campaign than you could find in 1,000 gaming supplements. Everything from cults to Biblical Prophecies to mind control to Anton LeVay. Real Jesus! Timothy Leary! Control Freaks! - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:12:34 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... - --On Mon, Mar 6, 2000 11:42 AM -0600 Eeyore wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Emily Dresner > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Date: Monday, March 06, 2000 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... > > >> >>> I'm sure you're rught. Only say "non-Christian" rather than >>> "non-Catholic," since the doctrine of the Trinity has a much wider >>> circulation than just the Catholic church, large though that >>> churhc is. >> >> >> I blame it on the brainwashing that comes from reading 200 pages >> of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in one sitting on >> Saturday. And there's a rather lengthy bit which explains the >> Nicene Creed. > > Hey, it made sense to those of us raised Unitarian. > The Nicene Creed or the concept of the Trinity? I'll admit to grasping the former but not the latter... Marc Bowden ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:19:19 -0800 (PST) From: Guy Royse Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > SdshowTim@aol.com wrote: > > > 666 is the number equivellent of Nero's name, if I remember > > correctly. Regardless its the number of a roman emperer who was > > anti-christian. > > That is one of several interpretations. Decoding 666 is a popular > fringey Christian thing to do. Indeed. I have seen many interpretations. Personally, I've always been rather found of the "Bill Gates as Antichrist" theory. I could believe that Windows 2000 is a Vapulan invention. :) For those unfamiliar with the theory, here's a link: http://users.lanminds.com/destruct/bill.htm > What's a "mofo"? It's urban slang for a profanity the starts with mother. I leave the rest as an excercise for the reader. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:34:08 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... - -----Original Message----- From: Sam Kington To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 06 March 2000 16:35 Subject: Re: IN> Looking for a reference to the Trinity... >Earl Wajenberg wrote: >> Is the d666, with its Interventions and check digit and all, part >> of the original French game? >The d666 was indeed part of INS/MV, but the original game uses a table >rather than a 2d6 roll plus 1d6 check digit - showing its age rather >badly as a result. In fact, it sometimes uses just a d66 to roll on the >table. >There are no Interventions in INS/MV. Possibly that was the case in the first or second edition -- but in the third edition, which is the one on my bookshelf, there _are_ interventions. It's also suggested they be somewhat religious in nature. If Joe Demon rolls a 111 while in the middle of a car chase, then why not catapult him over the edge of a motorway and slam him into a wire fence so he can dangle there by his hands, and then have a flying shard of metal stab him in the side? - --- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1545 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.