From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Mar 15 10:15:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17777 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:15:52 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA22343 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:12:28 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:12:28 -0600 Message-Id: <200003151612.KAA22343@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1553 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, March 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1553 In this digest: Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? IN> Pyrates of the Marches! Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> What books to get? IN> Call for Discussion! IN> Obsession. Re: IN> Obsession. Re: IN> Obsession. Re: Melchizedek (was Re: IN> Grigori, and their children...) Re: IN> Obsession. Re: IN> What books to get? Re: IN> Obsession. IN> The Odor of Sanctity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:01:33 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > I moderately like the LR. It has a few things in it I dislike rather > intensely, but they're very "your mileage may vary" sorts of things. > I like the rules in it quite a lot, and like its layout and many of > the relics et al. Do you mind detailing? Always can use more data for the mill... - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:04:04 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? > I moderately like the LR. It has a few things in it I dislike rather > intensely, but they're very "your mileage may vary" sorts of things. > I like the rules in it quite a lot, and like its layout and many of > the relics et al. I gots here four words, exactly FOUR small words, on why you should love and adore the Liber Reliquarium until the end of time: Forty Slices of Cheese This one relic not only was dragged, kicking and screaming into my own campaign, but it INSISTS on appearing in OTHER campaigns, most of which are not, in fact, In Nomine. It's like some sort of weird dairy plague, in which you are forced, largely against your will, to behold the power of cheese. All efforts to expunge the forty slices of cheese from my life has been without fruit: it looks as if they're destined to appear in our new campaign starting thursday over my personal wailing and gnashing of teeth. This alone is worth the price of admission. I admit readily that we never used anything _else_ from the Liber Reliquarium, but hey, I will happily pony up the price of admission for a multi-year in-joke. (How do you handle the forty slices of cheese? With David's potholders, of course! The Archangel of Stone was heard to say, "These potholders... they're so comfy." Now he stubbornly refuses to take them off.) Emily K. Dresner -- Writer, Guitarist, Hacker, Freak Pyramid Columnist, "Women in Gaming" -- http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ Freelancer, In Nomine -- http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ "John, he's trained an army of Iron Chefs!" - The Daily Show ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:21:42 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? At 11:01 AM -0500 3/14/00, John Karakash wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > > I moderately like the LR. It has a few things in it I dislike rather > > intensely, but they're very "your mileage may vary" sorts of things. > > I like the rules in it quite a lot, and like its layout and many of > > the relics et al. > > Do you mind detailing? Always can use more data >for the mill... I'll detail the two I can remember off the top of my head. (My infamous "doubling up of books for the office" hasn't including the LR yet, so I don't have it here...) And again, remember these are "your milage may vary" situations -- they're purely subjective opinions. 1. The Guitar Case of St. Stevie: Oh God *please.* Now, I'm a fan of goofy things. A *major* fan of goofy things. Cf. Em's comments on the forty slices of cheese -- a wonderfully goofy thing. But the Guitar Case of St. Stevie *screams* SRV Fanboy. It's the sort of thing I'd expect to see on someone's web site that no one takes seriously. The strong implication is "Stevie Ray Vaughn was such a totally kick ass wonderful guitar player that he's gone straight to Heaven as a Saint and his goods and gear themselves have been endowed with the Holy Steviness. Innt that *COOL?*" And we throw in an action superspeed guitar riff piece of artwork for good measure. Ugh. 2. King Arthur the neopagan. The Excalibur writeup was all told pretty good. So was the scabbard, and the Holy Grail was nicely mysterious. So why on God's Green Earth would there be wholly traditional Arthurian Legend trappings, only to have the whole of the legend tossed into doubt by officially stating Arthur worshipped Pagan Gods and the King Arthur mythos were all vast romances and exaggeration. Why cut out a perfect "High Myth" historical campaign idea? And why give evidence for those legends having reality behind them while also calling them wrong? The best Arthurian scholarly work I've seen suggests that whatever war chieftain the legends are referencing postdates the Roman control of Britain and the coming of Christianity both to the Empire and to the British Isles -- while certainly Christianity wouldn't have a huge foothold for centuries, there's no reason to take essentially Christian stories, make them false in the very core of their stories, and then make the window dressing *true* by detailing Relics that do precisely what Malory claims they did. Add in the fact that Uriel (and Laurence) are wonderfully Arthurian Questing Knights, and you have just a wonderful setup. I started playing with such a thing at one point (in fact, I postulated that Sir Bedwyr, called Bedivere in modern times, who was most famous for almost not throwing Excalibur into the lake at Arthur's death, but in the end did as his King commanded, was in fact a vessel of Laurence's, and led to the choice of Word for him. How's that for a run on sentence?). Think of it. Uriel and Yves have a pocket Kingdom to try and bring their pet concepts to light in the British Isles. Might for Right, Justice for All, the Ideals of the Knight. King Arthur achieves his Destiny in his Kingdom but also his Fate as he incestuously concieves a monster, then kills dozens of innocent children to protect himself. Which gives new meaning to the idea that he will one day return, since one of the possibilities of someone who achieves both Destiny and Fate is reincarnation.... But no, instead there's the little post-Bradleyesque comment in the writeup, and Arthur becomes a spirit worshipping little barbarian. Sigh. Or did you want me to detail the stuff I *liked?* There is more of it, for certain. I'm not panning the LR. It's just these things I have trouble with. (And elements of the adventure in the back, but that's minor.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:12:05 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > I'll detail the two I can remember off the top of my head. (My > infamous "doubling up of books for the office" hasn't including the > LR yet, so I don't have it here...) And again, remember these are > "your milage may vary" situations -- they're purely subjective > opinions. Whew! Just some of the relics and some other bits. I feel a lot better, now. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:58:35 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? At 1:12 PM -0500 3/14/00, John Karakash wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > I'll detail the two I can remember off the top of my head. (My > > infamous "doubling up of books for the office" hasn't including the > > LR yet, so I don't have it here...) And again, remember these are > > "your milage may vary" situations -- they're purely subjective > > opinions. > > Whew! Just some of the relics and some other bits. >I feel a lot better, now. =) Right. The rules and layout I thought worked pretty darn well. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:27:50 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! (With the sincerest apologies to George MacDonald Fraser, and his book, _The Pyrates_.) Out in the Marches, one finds many things. One finds Outcasts and Renegades, united to prey on those weaker than themselves. Of course, one doesn't often find them in pirate ships -- but the Marches Brotherhood brooks nothing for your ignorance or lack of interest! To arms, me hearties! It is said to have been founded when certain demons took a "vacation" from Baal's service, collecting a few like-minded individuals along the way, and recruiting others in the Marches. Now their dark piratical sails are feared by all those within sight of anything that can be sailed upon in the domains of dream, and their cannons are primed to take down Malakim and Calabim alike . . . The Six Captains - ------------------------ ". . . and at their head, all in snowy white from breeches to head-kerchief, big as a house-sid and nimble as a cat, Calico Jack Rackham, none other, cautiously edging his brutally handsome, square-chinned face round a corner of the watergate . . . First among equals was Calico Jack, by reason of being literate and smart and able to navigate and do all things shipshape and Bristol fashion, look'ee, as his admiring associates often agreed. Also he was strong enough to break a penny between his fingers, which helps . . ." Calico Jack, a Djinn of Baal on the run, is the most practical of the captains, and runs a very efficient ship. His crew know better than to bother him with trifles, and in return he only keel-hauls them if forced to it. It is said that he maintains an ethereal mistress on the distant island of Roatan, the luscious and lethal Anne Bonney, where he stores his accumulated treasure -- but few would be brave enough to risk the attempt to find it. "First behind him came Firebeard, six feet both ways, barrel-chested, with hands like earth-moving equipment, and so covered in the fuzz that gave him his nickname that he looked like a burst mattress with piggy eyes glinting out of it. He was enormous and roaring and ranting and wild and so thick he had forgotten his real name; he had been dropped on his head at an early age and never looked back. . . . he tied lighted fire-crackers in his beard to terrify the enemy. He always did this before action, fumbling and cursing as the matches burned his huge clumsy fingers, while his comrades coughed and fanned the air." Firebeard, Renegade Calabite of Belial, with a heart of gold -- or for gold, he's not quite sure. Fond of physical indulgences of all kinds, when he can remember what they are, and a good person to be standing well behind when he's attacking the enemy. A loyal ally to his fellow captains. For some reason he doesn't have his own ship, but sails with one of the other five -- possibly because he has yet to master the art of the compass, the sails, the anchor, or even which end goes first. ". . . tall, lean, rakish Bilbo, pretending to elegance in his tawdry finery of embroidered coat, plumed castor, soiled lace ruffles, and fine Cordovan boots with red-lacquered heels. (Actually, they pinched him excruciatingly, having been taken from the corpse of a small grandee who Bilbo had skewered at Campeche, but Bilbo knew they were the height of fashion, and hobbled grimly in them through skirmishes and boarding-parties innumerable.) . . . He sneered and minced in sinister fashion, and made play with a rather grubby Mechlin kerchief, and wore a cut-price gem in his steenkirk. But don't underrate Bilbo -- he might be a social pretender whose feet were killing him, but he had won his captaincy in the Coast Brotherhood by cunning, courage, and fighting ability. He wasn't called Bilbo for nothing -- the long black rapier on his hip was reckoned the deadliest from St Kitts to Coromandel, with stoccata and imbroccata and punta rinversa, sa-ha! and he had a nice showy trick of spinning up finger-rings and impaling them on his flourished blade . . ." Bilbo (a period term for "sword") is a Balseraph of Baal with some rather serious delusions about the possibility of him managing to join (someday) one of Laurence's knightly orders for his skill with the sword. This is unlikely. He may have some fleeting traces of personal honour -- or at least personal standards -- but there's no way he's angelic. On the other hand, he's intelligent, cunning, and very good with sword and pistol. He captains his own ship, and is attended by Goliath, a one-legged dwarfish imp who carries his pistols and snuffbox. "Six gorgeous feet she was, from the heels of her tight-fitting Italian thigh boots (from Gucci, undoubtedly) to the curling plume of her picture hat, breeched and shirted in crimson silk that clung to her like a skin, lithe and sleek and dangerous as a panther -- Sheba, the black pirate queen . . . smouldering silently as she unsheathed her dainty rapier with its Cartier hilt, and posed with the contemptuous grace of a burlesque star, indifferent to the ecstatic sighs and groans of her besotted followers . . . She never walked, she prowled, exuding menace and sex-appeal at every step, but none was so hardy as to presume on her femininity, for Sheba was as cruel and deadly as she was beautiful, and her scorn for men was proverbial . . . Born a Barbados slave, she had clawed her way to power in the Coast fraternity by a piratical genius and ruthless ferocity that had made her the toast of women's liberationists all along the Main. Her fellow sea-wolves respected her, had astonishing fantasies about her, and went in terror of her, and she despised them all with a curl of her shapely lip . . . she was a pirate because she hated the world for enslaving her, and took a sadistic pleasure in killing -- men, for choice, but women given half a chance, and quite small animals." Sheba is a Free Lilim -- at least, nobody's been able to track any Geases of hers. She has clearly spent time in service to Baal (and Andrealphus) and it's been theorised that that was where she met Bilbo and Calico Jack. Her past is hidden, and she does her best to keep it that way. Her ruthless crew anchors at Octopus Rock, a dark and secret fortress, where there are rumours of sizzling orgies where prisoners are ruthlessly done to death . . . but that's gossip for you. "First, the rakish corsair galley of Akbar the Damned, its great steel beak aglitter, the green banner of Islam aloft, its oars thrashing the water as the drivers flogged the naked slave-rowers and rounded up those who had nipped aft for a quiet smoke. Its deck crammed with swarthy, bearded rowers of Algiers and Tripoli, flashing their teeth, brandishing their scimitars and getting their spiked helmets caught in the rigging, the galley was a fearsome sight to Christian eyes, and hardly less disturbing to Buddhists or even atheists. And naught more fearsome than the dark, hawk-faced, hairy-chested figure of Akbar himself, lounging on his stern-castle in gold lame pyjama trousers, his forked beard a-quiver as he munched rahat lakoum proffered by nubile dancing girls, his fierce eyes glinting wildly as he practiced cutting their gauzy veils in two with his razor-edged Damascus blade." Akbar the Damned (self-named) is a Habbalite, once an Outcast Elohite of Faith. He has so far managed to avoid Binding to any Prince, and owns an impressive collection of Relics and Songs. A dangerous opponent with his scimitar, he is fond of collecting nubile dancing girls (especially blondes) and proclaiming the destruction of Christianity upon the high seas. His concept of personal angelhood and faith is less than well-defined, and he has been cooperating with the other captains very comfortably. "Secondly came that gaily-decked galleon of evil repute, the Grenouille Frenetique, or Frantic Frog, flagship of Happy Dan Pew, French filibuster, gallant, bon vivant, and gourmet, who was given to dancing rigadoons and other foreign capers as his vessel sailed into action . . . Through the raffish throng minced Happy Dan Pew, brave in galloons and flounces, one ring-bedecked hand on hilt o'rapier, the other raising quizzing-glass to view the supple body writhing in the cruel grasp of his followers." Happy Dan Pew, once a proud Balseraph of Fate, suffers the unfortunate twin delusion of being (a) a Malakite of Wind, (b) French. His crew find the safest thing to do is to play along. Need one say more? - --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:45:50 PST From: "Erich Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! This is fantastic! Gonna give us stats, too, or do we have to do those on our own? Great work! - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Impudite of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, servitor of Kronos - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com >(With the sincerest apologies to George MacDonald Fraser, and his book, >_The >Pyrates_.) > >Out in the Marches, one finds many things. One finds Outcasts and >Renegades, >united to prey on those weaker than themselves. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:57:07 -0000 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! - -----Original Message----- From: Erich Arendall To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 14 March 2000 19:47 Subject: Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! >This is fantastic! Gonna give us stats, too, or do we have to do those on >our own? >Great work! I'm afraid you'll have to do that yourself, though I'd suspect the principals are all 11-12 Forces. And I would _really_ recommend the book -- especially as it includes the heroes, too! - --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:02:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pyrates of the Marches! At 7:27 PM +0000 3/14/00, Genevieve Cogman wrote: >(With the sincerest apologies to George MacDonald Fraser, and his book, _The >Pyrates_.) You are *way* too cool. Just so you know. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:10:01 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? >From: Whistling in the Dark Eric, we're just doomed to always disagree :) I thought the guitar case of St. Stevie was highly amusing, and the 40 slices of cheese was a deeply lame and pathetic waste of paper. I mean, you can have all sorts of unlikely oddballs as Saints in IN. I was inspired to stick W. G. Grace into my game as the Saint of Keeping a Straight Bat (this is more meaningful if you're into cricket, like my players), and so on ... >The strong implication is "Stevie Ray Vaughn was such a >totally kick ass wonderful guitar player that he's gone straight to >Heaven as a Saint and his goods and gear themselves have been endowed >with the Holy Steviness. Innt that *COOL?*" But it is! It's funny. >2. King Arthur the neopagan. Well, yeah, you've got me there. I also thought the rules for creating artifacts were way too complicated for me to ever use. There's some interesting stuff in it (I loved the clocks of fate, and the chessboard) but I'd put it near the bottom of the must-get list. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:53:54 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? In a message dated 3/14/00 2:27:19 PM, AmadanSJG@compuserve.com writes: >Douglas Muir wrote: >> You forgot the Liber Reliquarum. Which nobody seems to like much, and >I> dislike a lot. > >Huh? You're entitled to dislike it, but the consensus I've seen hasn't >indicated that "nobody seems to like it much." > >-David > My one complaint about the L. Reliquarium is that I hadn't used relics before, and so I didn't know off the top of my head what the base capabilities of each type of relic/artifact/etc. was. So I had to go back to the main book to make sense of many of the rules and examples... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:06:20 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? At 12:10 PM -0800 3/14/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Whistling in the Dark > >Eric, we're just doomed to always disagree :) And you know, we can still laugh about it. >I thought the guitar case of St. Stevie was highly amusing, and the >40 slices of cheese was a deeply lame and pathetic waste of paper. Oh, I make *no* bones about my opinions of said relics being purely opinions. I figured *someone* had to like Stevie's guitar case or it wouldn't have come out of playtest. But as for the forty slices... do you not get the >I mean, you can have all sorts of unlikely oddballs as Saints in IN. >I was inspired to stick W. G. Grace into my game as the Saint of >Keeping a Straight Bat (this is more meaningful if you're into >cricket, like my players), and so on ... I actually have no problem with the idea of Stevie Ray Vaughn being made a Saint. I have a problem with those things he touched in life being given Great Power. But that's me. On the other hand, I also made Robert Heinlein's Colorado Springs house a dual tether to Lightning and Freedom, but that's because I'm as much a pathetic fanboy as the next. Of course, I also didn't *publish* it... >>2. King Arthur the neopagan. > >Well, yeah, you've got me there. See? We can agree! It can happen! - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:24:43 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? Whistling in the Dark wrote: > 1. The Guitar Case of St. Stevie: Oh God *please.* Now, I'm a fan of > goofy things. A *major* fan of goofy things. Cf. Em's comments on the > forty slices of cheese -- a wonderfully goofy thing. > > But the Guitar Case of St. Stevie *screams* SRV Fanboy. Funny, for some reason I always associated it with Hendrix. Don't know why -- I guess because I don't follow rock & roll much. > 2. King Arthur the neopagan. I didn't really like that part myself. If I was editing the LR now (as opposed to back then when that was my first editing job), I'd probably change it. But on my first major assignment, I was a little more reticient about changing another author's vision just because it didn't fit mine. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:27:59 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? Jo Hart wrote: > I thought the guitar case of St. Stevie was highly amusing, and the 40 > slices of cheese was a deeply lame and pathetic waste of paper. Not surprising. Those were both Derek's creations, and his work always seems to polarize the fans into two roughly equal camps: love it or hate it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:01:06 -0500 From: "BDP" Subject: IN> Call for Discussion! Jo suggested that I mention here that I am working up a game plan to take advantage of SJG's ORC policy to set up an In Nomine MUSH. Several weeks ago, she and I co-hosted a discussion online intended to foster some thinking and debating about the requirements for such a beast, and it yielded enough interesting comments that we'd like to try Round Two (at least, I assume we both are still in ... I'm sure Jo will correct me if she harbors some secret desire to back out). Anyone interested in setting up a round-table discussion on what kinds of Setting, Theme, Staff Structure, House Rules, Character Generation code, etc., an IN game should have to be moderately successful (i.e., folks enjoy playing there, the staffers have a high enough satisfaction:ulcer ratio that they continue to staff willingly without tearing out their hair or shooting someone, and the quality remains high enough to make SJ, Orc, and the Archangel Beth all Happy Campers...) should ping Jo and/or I privately, or simply raise your hand on-list (although I should think the former more appropriate to avoid bringing up the spam level). BDP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:24:34 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Obsession. One thing I noticed recently was in Night Music, and I believe maybe reprinted somewhere else (Not sure where) was a Discord called Obsession. I thought it was cool, but thought it was somewhat lacking. The rule states that you must indulge your obsession a number of times a week equal to your Discord. Fine. But what if the player tries to munchkin out of it saying, "Oh, my Cherub has a Level 6 obsession to wash his hands. He can do it a couple of hours every night at 3 am while the guy he's attuned to sleeps down the hall." I propose a variant. Compulsion. It works just like Obsession except that you must fulfill your compulsion (level of Discord) times every DAY, not week. The difference would be in scope. An obsession would be something fairly wide in scope, such as obession with a person, or a hobby. The afflicted would be required to spend a signifigant portion of that day indulging his obsession. A compulsion would be something simple, such as handwashing. It would probably take up no more than a half an hour to an hour. At higher levels of Discord this would add up. Compulsion would be a Celestial Discord, since it's so similar to Obsession. Thoughts? Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:05:07 -0600 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: Re: IN> Obsession. I'm reminded of a couple of things that I find well...extremely dissettling when I read your idea. Every so often 20/20, 60 Minutes or the like shows a section on obsessions. Some of them are fairly regular though dangerous (anorexia/bulemia), but some are much more strange. Like changing clothes several times per day or only eating red foods. But in particular, the one that you reminded me of, which I find just frankly frightening are the people that wash their hands over and over, again and again..little children washing their hands until they bleed. Sadly, its true. Also, what about Lady Macbeth 'Out damn spot, out'. How would those work into your idea? I think that its a good idea, just trying to put an interesting spin into it. :) Jonathan B Lotzer BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > One thing I noticed recently was in Night Music, and I believe maybe > reprinted somewhere else (Not sure where) was a Discord called Obsession. I > thought it was cool, but thought it was somewhat lacking. The rule states > that you must indulge your obsession a number of times a week equal to your > Discord. Fine. But what if the player tries to munchkin out of it saying, > "Oh, my Cherub has a Level 6 obsession to wash his hands. He can do it a > couple of hours every night at 3 am while the guy he's attuned to sleeps down > the hall." > I propose a variant. Compulsion. It works just like Obsession except that > you must fulfill your compulsion (level of Discord) times every DAY, not > week. The difference would be in scope. An obsession would be something > fairly wide in scope, such as obession with a person, or a hobby. The > afflicted would be required to spend a signifigant portion of that day > indulging his obsession. A compulsion would be something simple, such as > handwashing. It would probably take up no more than a half an hour to an > hour. At higher levels of Discord this would add up. Compulsion would be a > Celestial Discord, since it's so similar to Obsession. > Thoughts? > > Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:11:36 EST From: GodModerZ@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Obsession. Obession is a truly nasty thing, as are cumpulsions... which brings to reminders of character I have seen on GURPs games with certain cumpulsions as disadvantages. Things such as Cumpulsive Gambling, Compulsive Lying, Comulisve Swearing even. Truely nasty things, I have often see people get totally wrecked by these things in games I have played in and run. So it is to decide what would be a cumpulsion, and what would be an obbssession. For instance... Compulsice Gamblin: When you start to gamble, you just can't stop, you have to get that big win, that lucky break. But whem your flat broke, the comulsion still drive to other things, selling your car, or even your body for more cash, just to gamble. Sometime you can pull the riegns in, but when he offer rises, you just can't resist. This inturn could be an obbession, your obsessed with it, nothing esle matters, you wake just to see the roulette table spin... and nothing esle matters. That is a case of extreme dischord though... I love the Ideas of comulisons, and possibly reworking the obbession ruleing as well for my own house rules. (¸¸.·´`·´`·._)(X)(_.·´`·´`·.¸¸) DL Hawkins Jr. Angel of Matchmaking "Mercurian Friend of Sages" (¸¸.·´`·´`·._)(X)(_.·´`·´`·.¸¸) Work like you don't have the Money, Love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobodies watching. (¸¸.·´`·´`·._)(X)(_.·´`·´`·.¸¸) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:22:34 -0000 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: Melchizedek (was Re: IN> Grigori, and their children...) From: A.Hamilton > To me, one of the most interesting personages in the Bible is a righteous > dude by the name of (no, not Ferris) Melchizedek. > That is until the book of Hebrews in the New Testament, where Jesus is > refered to as being a Priest of the Order of Melchizedek. Curioser and > Curioser, no? i seem to recall reading somewhere that the ufo cult who all killed themselves a couple of years ago (heaven's gate? something like that) used to called the church of melchizedek, and worshipped angelic alien beings they called elohim... liam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:49:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Obsession. Just for the record, technically, "obession" is a matter of always needing to THINK about the object of the obsession, while "compulsion" is a matter of always needing to DO something. Of course, the two intertwine very readily, which is why there is a single name: "obsessive-compulsive disorder" (or "OCD"). To make things bad enough to be like real OCD, I'd say that the level of discord represents the number of times you get *caught up* in the obsession, not the number of times you do whatever it is. Thus, if you have hand-washing Obsession at level 4, then four times a week, you will start washing your hands and just NEVER stop until pried away by external forces. It would NOT mean you wash your hands for extra times in a week. Another common obsession (among humans, anyway), is checking -- Did I leave the lights on? or the stove? Did I lock the door? Is the dog inside? And you can't believe your own memory of thirty seconds ago, so you go look again. For IN, domestic checking could be replaced with, say, checking and re-checking equipment. It might take the other PCs a while to realize the character wasn't just meticulous. Then there's compulsive hoarding -- a dread of discarding anything for fear it might have some value you'll need later, and/or a desire to acquire things. It isn't exactly greed or avarice (though it is a natural accompaniment), since no rational estimation of value is involved. You end up living in a land-fill, and forgetting what the floor looks like, or how many chairs there are in the room. Cleaning, checking, and hoarding are the commonest OCD forms, if I recall correctly. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:33:52 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> What books to get? David Edelstein wrote: > > Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > But the Guitar Case of St. Stevie *screams* SRV Fanboy. > > Funny, for some reason I always associated it with Hendrix. Don't know > why -- I guess because I don't follow rock & roll much. Hendrix wasn't a Saint... Hendrix was a GOD. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:00:51 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Obsession. Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Another common obsession (among humans, anyway), is checking -- > Did I leave the lights on? or the stove? Did I lock the door? Is > the dog inside? And you can't believe your own memory of thirty > seconds ago, so you go look again. For IN, domestic checking > could be replaced with, say, checking and re-checking equipment. > It might take the other PCs a while to realize the character wasn't > just meticulous. It can also be quite irrational. I heard of one man with OCD, for example, who would seal an envelope, then before mailing it feel compelled to open it and make sure his daughter wasn't in the envelope. And he was otherwise quite rational, and KNEW that it was ridiculous to think his daughter might be in an envelope. Yet he couldn't help being seized with this dread that she might be inside and he was about to mail her. His rational mind simply couldn't overcome his irrational impulses. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:07:47 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> The Odor of Sanctity "As you ought to have known, the asphyxiating cloud which prevented your attacking the patient on his walk back from the old mill is a well-known phenomenon. It is the Enemy's most barbarous weapon, and generally appears when He is directly present to the patient under certain modes not yet fully classified. Some humans are permantely surrounded by it, and therefore inaccessible to us." "Then, of course, he gets to know this woman's family and whole cirlce. Could you not see that the very house she lives in is one that he ought never to have entered? The whole place reeks of that deadly odour. The very gardener, though he has been there only five years, is beginning to acquire it. Even guests, after a weekend visit, carry some of the smell away with them. The dog and the cat are tainted with it." --- "The Screwtape Letters," by C. S. Lewis, letters XIII and XXII Some Saints, and even some mundanes on the Saint track, have a special air about them, called the Odor of Sanctity. Most mundane humans can't detect it. To the Host and many animals, it is evident as a definite but pleasant odor, different for each individual. To infernals, it is even more evident, but not pleasant, as the excerpts above describe. And it isn't a real, physical odor, either, since things like gas masks are no help. The effect has a two- to three-meter radius from the Saint's person, and, as described above, can rub off on acquaintances and surroundings, though this "taint" wears off after d666 days. (A Divine intervention means the effect becomes permanent; an Infernal intervention removes it at once.) A demon or undead must roll against its Will minus the Saint's Corporeal Forces to enter the radius and another roll to touch the Saint. The same applies to anything still carrying the Saint's Odor. The Odor of Sanctity is a mixed blessing. It can give a tactical advantage and serve to certify the side you're on, but it can also blow your cover. Of course, Saints aren't supposed to go up against demons directly. The Odor is not something Superiors can bestow or remove. It just shows up in the Saint, and works in either Celestial or Corporeal form. On the Ethereal plane, the Saint can *make* the Odor show up at will. The Odor of Sanctity actually becomes stronger after a Saint bodily dies. (This is also true for those mundanes with the Odor, who will prove to be Saints on arrival in Heaven.) The odor becomes stronger, until mundane humans can readily smell it. It's usually like some flower, or incense. The bodies or vessels of such deceased Saints tend not to decompose normally, but to maintain an apparently perfect state of preservation, though after a few years they tend to crumble at the slightest touch. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1553 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.