From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 20 14:31:42 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11385 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:31:41 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA14954 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:28:44 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:28:44 -0600 Message-Id: <200003202028.OAA14954@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1558 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1558 In this digest: Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... Re: IN> 'Hi There!', and a first question Re: IN> trauma & outcasts/renegades (was GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children...) Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... Re: IN> 'Hi There!', and a first question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:48:59 -0800 (PST) From: Guy Royse Subject: Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... > > Mercurians: Traditional Western image of an angel. > > That's a big negative. They are seen as their most prominent/favorite > vessel with wings and a halo. Same goes for Impudites and Lilim. > Therefore, Mercurians of Jordi are probably seen as big monkeys with > wings (or crocodiles or sea monkeys or whatever their favorite vessel > is.) Sorry. That's a big double negative. In Nomine Core Rules, Page 104: "In their celestial forms, Mercurians look like the traditional Western image of an angel: a winged human with smooth skin, a bright smile and an open heart." That said, a Mercurian in animal form looking like a Cherub *IS* an amusing idea. However, I would imagine that the celestial realm being what it is, that the divine nature of any celestial would be readily apparent to anyone in the celestial realm regardless of appearances much in the same way that discord is. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:21:22 -0600 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... Please check out page 104 under Manner and Appearance in the main book. :) "Matthew W." wrote: > > Mercurians: Traditional Western image of an angel. > > That's a big negative. They are seen as their most prominent/favorite > vessel with wings and a halo. Same goes for Impudites and Lilim. > Therefore, Mercurians of Jordi are probably seen as big monkeys with > wings (or crocodiles or sea monkeys or whatever their favorite vessel > is.) > > My evil mind is coming up with all sorts of fun for people confusing > Mercurians with animal vessels with Cherubim (or even Impudites with > monstrous vessels, as per the GMG, being mistaken for Djinn). Evil > thoughts, evil thoughts... > > Then again, a Lilim with a Golden Retriever vessel would be equally > amusing. > > Scene in Shal-Mari - "Loriel... the horned green dog is staring at us > again." > > = Mathus = > = Demon of Rants = > = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:12:27 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... At 18:14 -0500 3/17/00, Jonathan B Lotzer wrote: >> Interesting idea. The duty given to Adam and Eve, in Genesis, >> was to "have dominion" over the Earth and its creatures. That >> sounds like it would raise Jordi's hackles, but an old idea is >> that, had we not fallen, we'd have made the whole planet Eden-like. >> Instead of being at odds with Jordi, we might have been a whole >> race of "forest rangers" assisting him and Novalis. > >IIRC, isn't dominion supposed to mean something more like sheparding or >caretaking. Rather than being overwhelming overlords of the poor >defenseless animals (like many humans have become today *growl* *snarl* >*hiss* ;) being friends and companions to the world around them, (a vision >possibly closer to people that live closer to the earth, preEuropean North >America perhaps?) So perhaps the duty itself would have pleased Jordi, but >not the way that it has come to be interpreted. Given the rest of the Old Testament, I don't think the writers were particularly concerned about the ecological impact of their actions, so I doubt this enlightened viewpoint was their interpretation. On the other hand, given the general accuracy of the Bible in In Nomine, the exact wording in the Bible probably bears only the slightest resemblance to the actual intent of God, and the instructions to the humans in Eden. In any case, arguing over "dominion" is pointless, since that's only the English translation; I'd be more interested in what the original Hebrew or Greek text said, and what the nuances are of the original word choice.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:19:44 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> 'Hi There!', and a first question At 18:30 -0500 3/17/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >Hmmm, except that peforming the rite is supposed to strengthen the Word that >it is associated with. The rites are not a reward of being Word-Bound as I >see it, the Word Forces and other Special abilities are. With this argument >where does the Essence come from for a Word-Bound non-superior? I believe the canon answer is: "Usually from his Superior." Promoting the Word-Bound's Word normally also promotes his Superior's Word. The Rite can also draw on the Word-Bound's own Essence supply, but I believe the drain is normally forwarded to his Superior. (The GMG may cover this; I don't recall, since it's been a while since I read the Word-Bound rules during playtest.) For Outcast or Renegade Word-Bound, they can't "forward" Rites anymore, so they'd draw directly on their own Essence supply. I suppose it's possible that a Word-Bound performing his *own* Rite gains Essence directly, due to his connection with the Word, but for others using them, I'm pretty sure the canon is that they drain the Disfavored's own Essence, again through his Word connection. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:26:08 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> trauma & outcasts/renegades (was GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children...) At 15:44 -0500 3/18/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > it seem if one is Renegade or Oucast, then that's fine and dandy, both automatically reappearing on Earth and not getting into the rest of the celestial realm beyond Limbo. it's almost... safe! Yes and no... people tend to go a bit crazy in Limbo, and often come out with substantial Discords in their new vessels. Also, the new vessel *appears where the old one was killed*, so it's possible that the killer may set up a watch on the spot and kill the new vessel when it appears... and you're back to square one again. The Game probably enjoys this trick, forcing a Renegade to ping-pong between his death location and Limbo a few times, until he's so riddled with Discords that he becomes the poster-demon for the Game's "You *Don't* Want to Go to Limbo" campaign.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:42:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> GURPS IN, Grigori, and their children... Walter Milliken wrote: > Given the rest of the Old Testament, I don't think the writers were > particularly concerned about the ecological impact of their > actions, so I doubt this enlightened viewpoint was their > interpretation. Well, on the other hand, the Law includes things like animals getting the Sabbath off, too, meat animals not suffering at slaughter, and fields being left fallow one year out of seven. And part of the curse put on Adam is specifically that the earth would no longer cooperate with him. And after the Flood, God permits the eating of meat, but also instills a fear of humans into animals. All of this indicates that, while it would be silly to think that the ancient Hebrews thought about environmentalism the way a modern would, they did have some thoughts and feelings on the matter that Jordi would have found congenial. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:33:11 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> 'Hi There!', and a first question Walter Milliken wrote: > I believe the canon answer is: "Usually from his Superior." Promoting the > Word-Bound's Word normally also promotes his Superior's Word. The Rite > can also draw on the Word-Bound's own Essence supply, but I believe > the drain is normally forwarded to his Superior. (The GMG may cover this; > I don't recall, since it's been a while since I read the Word-Bound rules > during playtest.) If a Word-bound celestial gives one of his Rites to another being, then when that being performs the Rite, it comes from the _Word-bound_ celestial's Essence supply. If the Word-bound celestial performs one of his Rites himself, it comes from his Superior and/or the Symphony. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1558 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.