From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 31 18:29:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14556 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:29:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA25736 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:27:55 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:27:55 -0600 Message-Id: <200004010027.SAA25736@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1569 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 31 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1569 In this digest: Re: IN> Kobal Software Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... Re: IN> Kobal Software (An Artifact) Re: IN> Essence in Heaven/Hell Re: Personal view (Was: IN> Dominic and FotM) Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph IN> Hell is fun! Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... Re: IN> Kobal Software (An Artifact) Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... Re: Personal view (Was: IN> Dominic and FotM) Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Who should he serve IN> Exploding Whale Re: IN> Exploding Whale Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Exploding Whale Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... Re: IN> Exploding Whale IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! Re: IN> Newbie! IN> Hitherby...? Re: IN> Hitherby...? Fwd: Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Hitherby...? Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... Re: Personal view (Was: IN> Dominic and FotM) Re: IN> Punishment. Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... Re: Re: IN> Who should he serve Re: IN> Punishment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 04:03:23 -0600 From: Webb Subject: Re: IN> Kobal Software > Oh yeah, you think God doesn't play Final Fantasy? I'll guarantee you the > series is an angelic intrusion onto Vapula-originated video game systems. > > People living up to their full potentials -- "love, courage and friendship" > (as Laguna puts it) carrying the day. Actually, that would just be more icing on the delicious cake for Kobal. Spending hour after hour playing a game about love and friendship, while the mortal is in actuality forgetting his loved ones and letting friendships wither. Oh, so sweet is the irony. To quote the K Man, "I slay me!" As for the "last level" question, when every single possibility of the game is played out, the Need and other compulsions disappear for the most part. This is why Kobal Software is most effective in open ended games with thousands upon thousands of variations, a la Diablo and Civilization II. Final Fantasy might be amusing for Kobal, but the real killer variations of Kobal Software are strategy style games. = Mathus = = Demon of Rants = = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:00:55 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... <<< I'm not saying Malakim are demons (...) each of the angels -- from Uriel all the way down to the littlest Malakite -- would have Fallen at the end of the War in Heaven had they not become Malakim. (Ben) >>> I am probably misinterpreting your words, Ben... Are you saying that the Choir of the Malakim could be some kind of last chance for problematic Angels? Also, I don't believe Malakim have a need for destruction and killing. I even try to take this idea away from my players' minds. I agree that they are combat oriented, more likely to use violence than others, and tend to get into more conflictual situations. But I wouldn't speak of "rage" or "fury". "Cold blooded" and "intolerant", yes! But they're just doing their job, really... Their nature involves courage and honour, not anger. Giving them a tendence for destruction and a "need" to kill brings them way too close to the nature of the Calabim, IMHO. It brings them even closer if they come from rageful angels who were on their way to the Pit. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:38:07 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Kobal Software (An Artifact) > Do I really *need* to get Final Fantasy 9...? (*clatter* 1, 1, 1 ) > > Marc. Just Marc. Yes, absolutely. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:23:59 +1000 From: "Shane and family" Subject: Re: IN> Essence in Heaven/Hell On 28 Mar 00, at 13:14, Walter Milliken wrote: > >Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> What development would give them the edge over God, should He > >> intervene at Armageddon? > > Final proof of the non-existance of God.... Hrm. Don't 111s kind of dent that? At least in the main book, they're described as "overtly supernatural" miracles, acts of God. Though I suppose if they ever stopped... > More seriously, I'd suggest the following two items: > > - Indication that God can't, or *won't* directly intervene; one way to > find this out would be to "push the envelope" and see if God reacts > directly. Sounds a lot like the current strategy of several DPs.... > > - Winning the battle for human souls in such a way that God has to > concede that Lucifer was right, that they were not more worthy of His > favor than the angels. Again, this matches Hell's current behavior > well. Proof that the souls (mortal or otherwise) of those whose Forces are disbanded are destroyed; truly gone and unable to be restored. Proof that, no matter how much faith you have, no matter whether you are sinner or saint, demon or angel, you will eventually be denied your existance. That whether you have met your Fate or your Destiny, you are still Doomed. Not a campaign I'd play in. Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:36:45 -0500 From: neelk@cswcasa.com Subject: Re: Personal view (Was: IN> Dominic and FotM) "Laurent" wrote: > > The following is based on my emphatically NON-CANON personal writings > > Is it just me, or are we all becoming a bit paranoid about the canon > non-canon stuff?!? I know I'm pretty new to this list, but couldn't we > relax a bit??? I mean not push the THIS-IS-NOT-CANON button as soon as > somebody says "I have an idea"... Yes, we are, and yes, we could. Personally, the only distinction I care about is the cool/not-cool distinction, and most everybody here is clever enough not to produce the latter.... - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:36:06 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Dominic as Balseraph At 1:34 -0500 3/30/00, Matt Lyon wrote: >I've heard some mention of the theory that Dominic is actually a >Balseraph. I'd be interested in hearing details about this (how a >Balseraph hangs out in Heaven, for one) from anyone who holds this >particular view. I think this whole notion started as a semi-joke, based on the question, "Why is Dominic never seen without his cloak?", and also on the rather dark picture of him painted in the main book. I believe at least one person's campaign actually used this notion, but I don't think it's widely held by the IN list population here. But it's fun to discuss. If you subscribe to this idea, you have to postulate that Dominic's cloak protects him from the light of Heaven, as well as the scrutiny of his fellow Archangels. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:58:37 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: IN> Hell is fun! Hope it's okay to post a joke... - -------------- One day a guy dies and finds himself in hell. As he is wallowing in despair, he has his first meeting with the devil... Satan: Why so glum? Guy: What do you think? I'm in hell! Satan: Hell's not so bad. We actually have a lot of fun down here. You a drinking man? Guy: Sure, I love to drink. Satan: Well you're gonna love Mondays then. On Mondays that's all we do is drink. Whiskey, tequila, Guinness, wine coolers, diet tab and fresca... we drink till we throw up and then we drink some more! And we don't worry about getting a hangover, because you're dead anyway. Guy: Gee, that sounds great! Satan: You a smoker? Guy: You better believe it! Satan: All right! You're gonna love Tuesdays. We get the finest cigars from all over the world and smoke our lungs out. If you get cancer - no biggie, you're already dead, remember? Guy: Wow... that's awesome! Satan: I bet you like to gamble. Guy: Why yes, as a matter of fact I do. Satan: Cause Wednesdays you can gamble all you want. Craps, Blackjack, Roulette, Poker, Slots, whatever. If you go bankrupt... you're dead anyhow. What about Drugs?!? Guy: Are you kidding? Love drugs! You don't mean... Satan: That's right! Thursday is drug day. Help yourself to a great big bowl of crack, or smack. Smoke a doobie the size of a submarine. You can do all the drugs you want. You're dead, who cares. Guy: WOW! I never realised Hell was such a cool place! Satan: You gay? Guy: No... Satan: Ooooh (grimaces). You're gonna hate Fridays. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:42:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Laurent wrote: > I'm not sure wether or not a Malakite gets dissonance from acting against one of > his oaths. I'd say so. Anybody with a canon answer? Huh? Reread the stuff on Malakim in the main book...that IS their dissonance condition. Seraphim can't lie, Mercurians can be violent, Malakim can't violate their oaths. Makes 'em more fair, really. Sure, you get immunity to Trauma, a badass rep, and the excuse to be a bit stubborn and singleminded about evil... but you start off with FOUR dissonance conditions, and every time you take a new oath, there's another one... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! 'Frop (frop) n. [ATL Habafropzipulous] The only thing that can drop you into the wading pool section of your own soul while the lifeguard's body drips blood from the diving board into the water, creating a fractal pattern dictated by an equation which has been built into your DNA code since life began. Watch the pattern and learn next week's winning Lotto numbers. [Webster-Dobbs, 3rd ed.] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:19:08 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Kobal Software (An Artifact) At 1:25 -0500 3/30/00, Michael Martin wrote: >On an unrelated note... >Is Kobal responsible for COBOL? No, IBM is. Now, who's responsible for IBM...? At the time of COBOL's creation, I'd have to say Haagenti or Mammon. Of course, you could also put it down to a streak of inspiration on Saminga's part -- these days, COBOL could be considered a "zombie" language: it's dead, but it still staggers along.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:22:25 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... <<< Huh? Reread the stuff on Malakim in the main book...that IS their dissonance condition. >>> hmmm... I thought it was to let evil live... Or is it one oath they HAVE to take? Well, it's the Week-end, I'll have plenty of time to read this section again. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:28:39 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Personal view (Was: IN> Dominic and FotM) At 4:04 -0500 3/30/00, Laurent wrote: >Is it just me, or are we all becoming a bit paranoid about the canon/non-canon >stuff?!? For most of the posters to the list, it's not necessary, but for people who are "official" or semi-official (i.e., editors and writers for the line), it's proven necessary to make clear whether we're talking about our own personal ideas, or something that might be part of the line someday (or is part of the line). Because it's not always readily apparent to newbies who *is* in that group, and because there are a number of posters here who can speak fairly authoritatively about IN issues, sounding like they *might* be in that group, again raising confusion, it's become habit for most long-time posters here. And if someone posts something that *sounds* authoritative, but isn't canon, and isn't obviously not canon, one or another of the "official" people may say so, to keep the noise level down -- many people react vehemenently to perceived changes in the line. Most posters take care of this by putting an "In my campaign," or "IMG" (In My Game) somewhere in their posts when they might be sounding authoritative. Authors and editors are more likely to specifically say "canon" or "non-canon" somewhere. It's a convention that's a little painful, but has proven to keep the confusion level down on the list. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:13:08 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve At 16:01 -0500 3/30/00, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>Actually, I'd put him under Vapula, myself. Of the ones you mentioned, >>I wouldn't use Kobal -- mechanical failures *usually* aren't funny. > >NOT funny??!!! The Hindenberg (sp?) NOT Funny to a demon of Dark Humor??!!! The Hindenburg itself, I wouldn't call funny. Maybe the live reporting of it might reach that state. Now, the "WKRP in Cinncinati" episode that satirized the Hindenburg disaster... *that* I could see as Dark Humor. > A rollercoaster leaping the rails NOT funny???!!!! Did you >see the expressions on their faces?! Terror, man! So? That's Beleth's Word, not Kobal's. Death, per se, isn't funny -- it needs to be *ironic* death, or something similar. Or so I interpret Kobal's Word. The Darwin Awards are quintessentially Kobalic, a car accident isn't. Now, a car accident that killed the safety engineer who'd improperly designed the safety systems in the car... *that* would be Funny. Airplanes crashing because the engines just sucked in a flock of geese are Funny, airplanes that crash because of computer software glitches in the flight control system, aren't. >The suffering of humankind due to their failure of their own creations, now >THAT'S dark humor. (Especially in that whole God creates Man, Man fails => >Man creates Machines, Machine fails, sense.) My own interpretation is that human death is only funny in the Dark Humor sense if the victim(s) had some responsibility for it, or if it happened in some totally bizarre and incongruous way, like a multi-car crash caused by a load of frozen bananas dumped on the highway. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:17:27 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve From: "Walter Milliken" >...a multi-car crash caused by a > load of frozen bananas dumped on the highway. Now *that's* comedy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:59:18 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve - --On Fri, Mar 31, 2000 12:17 PM -0500 Gregory Gietzen wrote: > From: "Walter Milliken" > >> ...a multi-car crash caused by a >> load of frozen bananas dumped on the highway. > > Now *that's* comedy. > C'mon Aunt Slappy. Back into the freezer with you. Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:00:33 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve - --On Fri, Mar 31, 2000 12:13 PM -0500 Walter Milliken wrote: > > The Hindenburg itself, I wouldn't call funny. Maybe the live > reporting of it might reach that state. Now, the "WKRP in > Cinncinati" episode that satirized the Hindenburg disaster... > *that* I could see as Dark Humor. > He must find all of Northern Ireland bloody hillarious then. Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:15:19 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve From: "Walter Milliken" > > My own interpretation is that human death is only funny in the Dark Humor > sense if the victim(s) had some responsibility for it, or if it happened in > some totally bizarre and incongruous way, like a multi-car crash caused by a > load of frozen bananas dumped on the highway. The Darwin Awards generate essence for both Kobal and Saminga, for example. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:22:05 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve At 13:15 -0500 3/31/00, Prodigal wrote: >The Darwin Awards generate essence for both Kobal and Saminga, for example. >;;;) I don't know... the Darwin Awards are too piecemeal to really suit Saminga's taste. He's more into quantity than quality, is my impression.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:38:01 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve From: "Walter Milliken" > At 13:15 -0500 3/31/00, Prodigal wrote: > >The Darwin Awards generate essence for both Kobal and Saminga, for example. > >;;;) > > I don't know... the Darwin Awards are too piecemeal to really suit Saminga's > taste. He's more into quantity than quality, is my impression.... They still center on death, no matter how ironic. And they're probably one of the few things that can consistently get a giggle out of Saminga, as scary a thought as him giggling might be. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:01:49 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve At 13:38 -0500 3/31/00, Prodigal wrote: >From: "Walter Milliken" >> I don't know... the Darwin Awards are too piecemeal to really suit >Saminga's >> taste. He's more into quantity than quality, is my impression.... > >They still center on death, no matter how ironic. Oh, I'm sure he appreciates death in any form, but he tends to favor it in large quantities. > And they're probably one >of the few things that can consistently get a giggle out of Saminga, as >scary a thought as him giggling might be. ;;;) I don't know -- his idea of funny is probably along the lines of PETA putting anthrax in the LA water supply. Or a major natural disaster where there are hordes of people who will die in the aftermath, and there are still stupid humans trying to save them, even though the effort is doomed (for the most part). Or, better yet, a bunch of refugees swarming a rescue boat to the point where it sinks, killing the refugees *and* the rescuers. "They're so afraid of Death that they'll kill themselves *and others* trying to avoid Me. Good." People killing themselves (preferably in large numbers) out of misplaced nobility, fairness, and the like is probably the highest form of humor to Saminga. Hmmm... Saminga must think "Hamlet" is a comedy.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:29:29 -0600 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: IN> Exploding Whale I only heard of this story last August when visiting Internet friends. Well, it seems that one of them was actually there for the 'Story of the Exploding Whale' the original time that it was shown. The story, to be short, is that a sperm whale washed up on the Oregon shoreline and they gave it to the road crew to clean up. Well, you know that old phrase, give a man a hammer and all he sees are nails? Well this is a case of, give a road worker TNT and all he sees are things to blow up...in this case with results that Kobal would do the same..explode with laughter. I just searched and found what looks to be a pretty good site (good telling of the story, the actual film clippage, etc) at http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~hacks/misc/whale/. PS: Make sure that milk is far away when you read this, or it shall be..unvolutarily ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:33:50 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> Exploding Whale From: "Jonathan B Lotzer" > I just searched and found what looks to be a pretty good site (good > telling of the story, the actual film clippage, etc) at My favorite part of the video is when you hear a loud crash and then someone says "MY CAR!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:05:19 PST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve > > The Hindenburg itself, I wouldn't call funny. Maybe the live > > reporting of it might reach that state. Now, the "WKRP in > > Cinncinati" episode that satirized the Hindenburg disaster... > > *that* I could see as Dark Humor. > > > > He must find all of Northern Ireland bloody hillarious then. I'd say Kobal has a field day with the Luck of the Irish. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "Mucal invader, is there no end to your oozing?!" - The Tick The Uncommon Cold ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:20:43 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Exploding Whale > http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~hacks/misc/whale/. Right. I wrote that up and it was published in the Liber Castorellum as a tether to Dark Humor. Some of us have been on the net for a long, long time.... :) Emily K. Dresner -- Writer, Guitarist, Hacker, Freak Pyramid Columnist, "Women in Gaming" -- http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ Freelancer, In Nomine -- http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ All the old familiar choruses come crowding in a different key: Melodies decaying in sweet dissonance. - Jethro Tull, "A PASSION PLAY" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:26:04 -0700 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... > I am probably misinterpreting your words, Ben... Are you saying that the Choir > of the Malakim could be some kind of last chance for problematic Angels? Not at all, but I am saying that the feelings of betrayal, anger, rage, and doubt that overwhelmed the 2/3 of the angels who DIDN'T rebel were probably enough to drive a good portion of them to dissonance. By becoming Malakim, they lost their old dissonance conditions, but were still possessed of all those destructive feelings. These feelings translated easily into pounding on their treacherous brethren. > Laurent. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:27:36 -0700 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Exploding Whale > > http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~hacks/misc/whale/. Haven't heard this story in well over five years, and it still cracks me up. Definately Kobal, definately. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:48:38 +0100 From: Becky Subject: IN> Newbie! Hey guys - I'm a newbie to the list, so out of common courtesty i thought I'd introduce myself :) Well. Here I am :) I only just got IN, I really like it, but there are some things I'm not clear on - and my friends want me to run them a chronicle in a few weeks...so if you guys could answer some of my questions? I have some ideas for a chronicle, but I'd like to know [i'm sorry, I know this is probably a question you get a lot] where new angels come from. I'd just assume they were all created at the beginning of time by God, but they talk about older angels and newer ones...is God still creating some? Or are they born like any other creature? If so...how does that work? I mean...if your mom was a big ball of flame and your dad was a giant cuddly lion? what if one parent is divine and one diabolical? I'd also like any info you guys have on the Grigori and their children? Thank you very much for your time, I realise that my questions are probably answered in some book [and as soon as I actually *have* some of that marvelous money stuff I'll get more - honest!], and if that's the case, you don't have to give me mechanics and stuff - just a general idea. Thank you again, Becca. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:14:04 CST From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! >I'd just assume they were all created at the beginning of time by God, but >they talk about older angels and newer ones...is God still creating some? >Or are they born like any other creature? > Not born, but there are free-floating Forces in the Symphony/Heaven, etc. And a Superior that needs a new angel can put them together in the standard 9 Force configuration of a celestial. That and Relievers, Imps and Gremlins eventually do gather enough Essence to add a Force if their Superior allows it. >I'd also like any info you guys have on the Grigori and their children? If you've got the main rulebook, you've got all published info on the Gregori and their children. *grins* Sorry. Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:23:37 -0500 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! > Return-Path: drakemagi@hotmail.com > >I'd also like any info you guys have on the Grigori and their children? > > If you've got the main rulebook, you've got all published info on the > Gregori and their children. *grins* Sorry. > Thats not strictly true. There is a little more on the children of the grigori in the Corporeal players guide. not a lot. In fact, quite a little (more how to create the spawn of a celestial/mortal mating), but it is there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:37:11 +0100 From: Becky Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! Thanks guys! You helped a lot! So it *is* possible to be half angel half mortal? Uh...how exactly does that work? Just like a soldier? Sorry for being so dense :) becca. "Galen G. Silversmith" wrote: > > > Return-Path: drakemagi@hotmail.com > > >I'd also like any info you guys have on the Grigori and their children? > > > > If you've got the main rulebook, you've got all published info on the > > Gregori and their children. *grins* Sorry. > > > Thats not strictly true. There is a little more on the children of the > grigori in the Corporeal players guide. not a lot. In fact, quite a > little (more how to create the spawn of a celestial/mortal mating), but it > is there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:43:02 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! In a message dated 3/31/00 3:37:43 PM Central Standard Time, beccatoria.mordor@dtn.ntl.com writes: << So it *is* possible to be half angel half mortal? Uh...how exactly does that work? Just like a soldier? >> Sort of. A character with one angelic parent and one human parent is not normally possible without the Celestial Song of Fruition. And in any event is totally forbidden. The child with probably be totally human, but with the potential for extra Forces, but may be a Nephallim, or half-human/ half-celestial. In which case they will have extra forces, symphonic awareness, and lots and lots of disadvantages (i.e. Discord) It wasn't supposed to happen, you see and the result is messy. They will have Corporeal, Ethereal, AND Celestial Discord. Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:43:40 -0800 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! Becky wrote: > > Thanks guys! You helped a lot! > > So it *is* possible to be half angel half mortal? Uh...how exactly does > that work? Just like a soldier? Well... (brief obligatory pause to plug CPG, which is certainly worth your time and even money ^_^) sorta. The children of celestials, IIRC, are mortal for most intents and purposes, although they tend to have more forces, and many are born with symphonic awareness, as well as the already mentioned swarm of disadvantages. They can then become soldiers, of any variety, although many, especially those children of the grigori who have some idea what's going on, do their best to avoid celestials of all sorts. But I think that physically, children of celestials are human for all intents and purposes. Sterling (or, in some cases, grotesque) specimens, but still, when it gets down to it, human. There's no wierd demi-celestial form thing, let alone children born with wings and hooves (except for some nephallim), in canon, to my knowledge. Also, if this sort of thing interests you, there is more information on Grigori in the upcoming GURPS In Nomine (another plug, this time for Pyramid, because the playtest files for G: IN are currently up), and presumably in an upcoming IN supplement as well (although you may have to wait for 2/e, if then). Hope these vague ramblings are mildly helpful, -Ryan "Yeah? *Yeah*!? Well I've seen SCARIER things than you under my FINGERNAILS! You *%^%# &#%%*^ing *$%^& #$*+ son of a %$#~ $%*& #%$^!" -The late Phiel, Ofanite of Wind, to Nybbas, Demon Prince of the Media, demonstrating his knowledge of the finer points of animal husbandry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:41:28 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! At 15:48 -0500 3/31/00, Becky wrote: >I have some ideas for a chronicle, but I'd like to know [i'm sorry, I >know this is probably a question you get a lot] where new angels come >from. Three places, basically: 1) Created by God (these are all *really* old angels, possibly only the first few) 2) Created by a Superior (as a 9+ -Force being, from scratch) 3) "Fledged" from a reliever; relievers are also normally created by Superiors, though canon isn't clear on whether they come from other places as well. (There's a suggestion that demonlings are spontanteously generated in Hell, though -- not much detail, probably because no one wants to look into the matter very much....) I think there's also a Song in the Liber Canticorum that can do it for lesser angels, but it's no longer in use (unless it's what Superiors use). >If so...how does that work? I mean...if your mom was a big ball of >flame and your dad was a giant cuddly lion? A Superior then takes a few Forces from each, plus maybe some of his own, plus maybe some "loose" Forces, glues then together, and Presto! a new angel (or reliever, if less than 9 Forces). >what if one parent is divine and one diabolical? Not very common, though it can happen. The result is normally an angel, as I recall. >I'd also like any info you guys have on the Grigori and their children? If you've got playtest access via a Pyramid, I think the GURPS In Nomine stuff is still there, and you can look at it. There's not much beyond what's in the main book except basic resonance and dissonance stuff, though. I recently summarized it in a message to this list, which should be in the list archives. Search for "GURPS IN" and/or "Grigori" One note: Children of the Grigori are fully human, though the main book implies otherwise in one or two places. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:44:21 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Newbie! At 16:37 -0500 3/31/00, Becky wrote: >Thanks guys! You helped a lot! > >So it *is* possible to be half angel half mortal? Nope. Angels, demons, and humans are all distinct types, you can't be part one and part another. Angels can change into demons and vice-versa, but neither can become human, nor can humans become celestials. (Lilith is a special case; Lilith is *always* a special case, and she likes it that way....) The result of a celestial/human mating is (I recall) always human, though the human may be exceptional in some way. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2000 23:33:19 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: IN> Hitherby...? anyone know where Hitherby is, or where his write-ups of Jordi and Gabriel have vanished off to? i've been looking for them ever since Casca showed me his copies, figuring they'd be on the INC. but i've no luck, and not only can't i find any trace of him there, the INC search engine finds him not either. -=|horsefly|=- ...despondent and archaic ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 00:45:10 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Hitherby...? - -----Original Message----- From: -=|horsefly|=- To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 01 April 2000 00:34 Subject: IN> Hitherby...? >anyone know where Hitherby is, or where his write-ups of Jordi and Gabriel have vanished off to? i've been looking for them ever since Casca showed me his copies, figuring they'd be on the INC. but i've no luck, and not only can't i find any trace of him there, the INC search engine finds him not either. Check: http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~rsean/gaming/index.html Genevieve - --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:07:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Who should he serve >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 4 (Man, that's a silly thing...) >From: "Laurent" >Subject: Re: IN> Who should he serve >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:50:49 +0100 >Organization: Logica Ireland >> I can't decide between Kobal, Belial or Saminga > >Like almost everybody, I'd say Vapula. Canonically, Vapula doesn't have any >Calabim because they are too u n s table. Now you could make a (non canon) >exception, but the Demon of Catastrophic Mechanical Failure would obviously >never be allowed near Vapula's labs! Using Vapula's paranoia for the demon could >even bring some funny aspect to the game: he only contacts him by email, never >wants to meet him in person (therefore has a special 0 chance of invocation), >etc. Now there's still one thing that doesn't fit: Vapula could make one or two >exceptions (again, non-canonically), but granting him a Word might be pushing it >a bit... > >My second choice would be Kobal. My English is not the best, but a mechanical >"failure" does not usually destroy anything nor kill anybody. Not everytime >anyway. It can have some annoying or even humiliating consequences however. >Remember when Bill Gates presented Windows 98 (or was it 95) for the first time >and got the blue memory dump screen during is live press conference? I'm sure >Kobal couldn't help smiling... > ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 2000 00:14:57 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> Hitherby...? thank-you very kindly, Genevieve. i appreciate that bunches =) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:19:00 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... At 1:48 AM -0400 3/30/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >My question, then. Is Dave an aberration, or do other senior Malakim still >partake -- in some limited way -- of the natures of their former Choirs? I'd call this a GM call, but I would generally say that yes, they do. Mind, I think there are only two examples of this, one David/Cherub, and the other whatshisname from the Liber Castellorum plot seeds, who used to be a Seraph. (It doesn't say, but check out his oaths.) I'd certainly encourage any future canon characters who are "transformed" Malakim to reflect their previous Choir in their personality or oaths... O;> >Oh, and there'd be a few ex-Grigori Malakim, surely. That would be >interesting. None of them. The Grigori were created _after_ the Fall. - --Beth, catching up as she can, while taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, aka Io-chan, aka the little reliever. (Kind of hard to type with her on my lap!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:27:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Personal view (Was: IN> Dominic and FotM) At 10:04 AM +0100 3/30/00, Laurent wrote: >> The following is based on my emphatically NON-CANON personal writings > >Is it just me, or are we all becoming a bit paranoid about the canon/non-canon >stuff?!? You must not have sat through umpty "cool idea" threads that are half, "But it's not canon!" protestations, accompanied by a bunch of people arguing from a point of view that it's non canon and they clearly must correct someone's misinterpretation? (And sometimes it's _not_ easy to tell if someone is working from a "I know it's not canon, I'm doing this deliberately" basis or not!) So no, it's not paranoia. It's only good sense. O:> At 8:20 AM -0600 3/30/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Two is that when one of the IN authors -- and especially the Line Editor >-- posts something about IN, people have been known to go apeshit over >whether or not this represented an official change in the universe, >unless the author/LE was very explicit in the post about whether or not >the post was canon. What he said. In spades. - --Beth, catching up as she can, while taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, aka Io-chan, aka the little reliever. (Kind of hard to type with her on my lap!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:25:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Punishment. At 8:19 AM -0500 3/30/00, David Wood wrote: >> There's also the really twisted path of having the triad prepped to >> pass a nasty judgment which they _know_ is going to be over-ruled by >> Janus (because it was set up that way ahead of time), [...] >b) A point that seems almost to have been overlooked: It's Dissonant for >servitors of Dominic to impose punishments greater than the crimes >committed. That means it's simply not in Dominic's *nature* to impose >anything exceptionally nasty in the hopes that it'll be overturned (because, >naturally, it might NOT be). Could run it as... "You are found guilty of X. The sentence is Y..." "...unless you immediately change to the service of the Wind." >Stick him under *David*. > >(No, THAT David, not...) >--David http://home.bluecrab.org/~dwood We rather have a lot of them, don't we? O:> - --Beth, catching up as she can, while taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, aka Io-chan, aka the little reliever. (Kind of hard to type with her on my lap!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:30:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Virtue formerly known as... At 12:55 PM -0600 3/30/00, Dennis Groome wrote: >I certainly hope a Malaki[te] wouldn't take the Oath "Never harm a human." >What happens when the Malaki[te] meets an evil human? or better yet, a >Hellsworn or Sorcerer that cannot be redeemed? Better be _darn_ good at psychological manipulation to "redeem" any evil humans they meet... I agree that it would be a _darned_ tricky oath, and probably a dissonance generator. But it could be a very interesting sort of oath for, say, a Malakite of Yves... - --Beth, catching up as she can, while taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, aka Io-chan, aka the little reliever. (Kind of hard to type with her on my lap!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:29:41 -0800 From: "Sean McCarthy" Subject: Re: Re: IN> Who should he serve - ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth McCoy To: Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 4:07 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> Who should he serve > >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 4 > > (Man, that's a silly thing...) > Sure is. There has to be a way to ease off that regexp...or for that matters, just turn off the bouncer. Yes, this would leave us tolerating the occasional mail to the wrong address, but it would reduce list admin overhead. Maybe we need a technical list admin and a policy list admin? I only suggest this because I am thinking certain Archangels have a lot of demands on their time and much better things to do than slog through the mailing list manuals. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:28:08 -0500 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> Punishment. From: Elizabeth McCoy > "You are found guilty of X. The sentence is Y..." > > "...unless you immediately change to the service of the Wind." Now I have images of Dominic singing "A More Humane Archangel" from Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Divine Mikado." "...to let the punishment fit the crime!" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1569 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.