From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 13 10:34:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21279 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:34:36 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id KAA31655 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:27:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:27:24 -0500 Message-Id: <200004131527.KAA31655@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1581 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1581 In this digest: Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... RE: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces IN> Prophets Re: IN> Prophets Re: IN> Prophets Re: IN> Prophets Re: IN> Prophets Re: IN> Prophets Re: IN> Prophets Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:30:55 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > This is one of the best and most chilling pieces of IN fan-fiction I've > ever seen. Also, even though it's not canon, it's compatible with > canon, and nicely illustrates how Freedom can be a Hellish Word, when > Lilith uses it to murder and Force-strip babies. If anyone gets tired > of Lilith being painted in a shade they think too Bright, they need only > model her on this vignette. Hmmmm... That story seems familiar. Maybe I subconsciously remembered it when I put forth my idea? Regardless, it's a fun piece! The only difference I notice is that in the story, Lilith does it because it's more convenient (chilling, indeed!) and in mine it's a requirement to make Lilim. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:36:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... The tale also relates directly to Lilith's origin (speaking in terms of folklore) as a demon of crib-death. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:59:03 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: RE: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 0:16 -0400 4/8/00, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >> So, somewhere in the city of Chicago >> (I think) >> there's a 3 foot circle of nuclear glass that's highly >> radioactive, right? > >Yeah, this raises some bigger questions. So you stop a nuke with >CorpShields... What happens to the radiation and the material? The radiation vanishes when it hits the shield, I'd say, just like the shield absorbs other Bad Energy (TM). The material, well, those things that are naturally gasses would dissipate into the atmosphere after the Song ended, everything else would precipitate abruptly out of the plasma as it cooled when it contacted the shield. I'm certainly no expert on plasma chemistry, but I'd guess you'd get a lot of very fine particles of a roughly uniform composition, containing stuff that was vaporized inside the shield, along with some nuclear reaction by-products from the bomb itself. (If I remember my old Civil Defense lectures from high school, that's what fallout was, roughly.) > I mean, >anyone coming near that building is going to get a hefty dose of radiation >poisoning... In addition, that radioactive material may seep into the water >supply, bringing with it its own fun results... This presumes that the explosion is "dirty" -- that depends a lot on the exact type of nuclear bomb, and the materials inside the shield radius. In general, though, for a typical plutonium bomb, yes, you're going to have a fair amount of radioactive by-products. I'm not sure the levels would be immediately deadly, though -- the main cause of induced radioactivity is free high-energy neutrons, and they have a moderate amount of penetrating power in most materials. The lion's share of them would probably make it all the way to the shield without hitting anything, contributing nothing to the subsequent radioactivity. So you'd probably have the equivalent of a couple cubic yards of concrete and stuff that would act like it had been inside a nuclear reactor for a while -- all turned to dust particles. > In addition, what sort of >emanations does CorpShields stop? If you want a precise physical effect, I'd say it stops all energy above a certain power level. Normal light and sound can get through, but only because they're very small amounts of energy. Anything in excess of that would get "clipped". So if you were next to the exploding bomb, outside the shield, you might hear something about as loud as a gunshot, and see something about as bright as a flashbulb going off inside. > Would the USGS register (seismologically) >a nuclear blast going off there because of vibrations? I'd say no. > I understand this >starts to get into the taboo area of miracle physics, but if the blast >doesn't register, there's a good way to cause a lot of long-lasting damage >to a major population source. "Good" only in the Rube-Goldbergian sense. There are a lot of easier ways to mess up a metropolitan area -- seed it with a deadly virus, for example. >Imagine a Samingan suicide-bomber with CorpShields and a nuke, detonating it >in such a fashion as to contaminate the fishing industry off Cape Cod or the >ground water round D.C... No one will know to evacuate or stop fishing until >people start dying of radiation poisoning, and by then it will be too >late... Actually, I think the fishermen would tend to notice the dying fish, first. And ground water is heavily monitored for a lot of things; if radioactive isotopes turned up there, I think they'd get noticed pretty quickly. (They may even test groundwater for radon, in which case it'd get noticed *very* quickly.* - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:02:14 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 13:39 -0400 4/8/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Secondly, I'm no nuclear physicist, but I'm not sure that ten meter >glass sphere *would* carry that much radiation. I don't think the >half-life from a single small nuclear blast is that long. It's going to have a whole range of half-lives, depending on the materials present. The most important part is that the highest-energy radiation decays the fastest, so after a few days, most of the worst is over, and you're left with something that's probably on the order of 10-100 times normal background levels (which lasts for years). Not somewhere I'd want to live, but it's not really severely deadly. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:04:57 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 11:09 -0400 4/10/00, Galen G. Silversmith wrote: >Or maybe there is a little corps of mercurians of destiny, wandering >around, making it SEEM like Yves is everywhere. They all have >(functionally) identical vessels and are kept quite busy... Or a corp of impudites of Kobal, running around and trying to confuse angels with excessive ineffibility.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:11:10 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Prophets I know prophets are discussed in the Corporeal Player's Guide, but I don't have that. What are the game mechanics for prophets? Can celestials or ethereals be prophets? Thanks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:31:23 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Prophets > I know prophets are discussed in the Corporeal Player's Guide, > but I don't have that. What are the game mechanics for prophets? > Can celestials or ethereals be prophets? Only Gabriel and humans can be prophets. A prophet recieves his wisdom directly from God, and may or may not be sane as a result. His prophecy may be clear or cryptic. Lucifer can also send messages to prophets, creating a "false prophet" in a similar way. There aren't game mechanics, as such. I had a prophet who merely rambled the same words in German repeatedly and scrawled coordinates on a chalkboard until he choked to death on his own tongue... > Earl Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:33:39 EDT From: "Angela Smythe" Subject: Re: IN> Prophets >I know prophets are discussed in the Corporeal Player's Guide, >but I don't have that. What are the game mechanics for prophets? >Can celestials or ethereals be prophets? All prophets have 6 potentail forces (some never get past 5). The GM can just give the prophet a vision, whenever it suits them, and it is always true. For the most part the perosn is channeling the divine but is as human as anybody esle. Lucifer can make false prophets, were he sides whatever twisted thing he wants, but a lucky Seraph can tell the difference. The only non-human to be a prophet is Gabriel. Angela ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:54:48 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Prophets > Return-Path: earlw@mc.com > I know prophets are discussed in the Corporeal Player's Guide, > but I don't have that. What are the game mechanics for prophets? > Can celestials or ethereals be prophets? Prophets are humans (I don;t believe they have to be mortals, just humans), and they must have at least a potential for a 6th force. Other than that, there is very little in the way of given mechanics. They get visions, in whatever format the GM/God chooses. Same for false prophecies from the GM/Lucifer. A seraph witha CD of 6 can tell the difference, knowing what is true from what is not (but IMO depending on the nature of the prophecy, false prophets might have a 'true' resounance, as well. Only if the resonance was on "from god" rather than "a vision" would this differentiate. IMO, there is also probably a way for Angels of Destiny/Demons of Fate to tell the difference.). I don't recall any rules forbidding ethereals from being prophets, but I doubt that would happen; few ethereals subsume themselves to the Host. And there are no rules, strictly forbidding true prophets from also being false prophets. (I was so happy when one of the players in my mortal's campaign asked if hir chatacter could be a prophet. =) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:52:44 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Prophets Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > I know prophets are discussed in the Corporeal Player's Guide, > but I don't have that. What are the game mechanics for prophets? > Can celestials or ethereals be prophets? Nothing special in terms of game mechanics -- they are humans (usually otherwise ordinary mortals) who occasionally have visions sent straight from God (or the Higher Heavens). Their visions are completely subject to the GM's whim, since he decides when, how often, how accurate, how literal, and how controllable they are. It's a GM's tool, and thus costs no points. Canonically, Gabriel is the ONLY celestial prophet, and there are no known ethereal prophets. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:55:50 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Prophets I had some scribbled note on this from a way back which had a slightly different take. http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_prophecy.html jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:59:38 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Prophets At 1:11 PM -0500 4/12/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I know prophets are discussed in the Corporeal Player's Guide, >but I don't have that. What are the game mechanics for prophets? >Can celestials or ethereals be prophets? I think actually explaining the game mechanics might be a bit out of bounds for what should appear on the Mailing List (as SJGames would like to *sell* some of these books, after all). That being said, I don't think we can quanitfy who exactly can be a real (or false) prophet. After all, Gabriel is a Celestial and she's a prophet. Now, if a true prophet (which is to say Divinely inspired) showed up among the Ethereals, it might be a truly shocking thing for the Angels (or Demons, for that matter). It would imply a level of Divine acceptance of the Ethereals that most Angels just wouldn't be comfortable with, especially when one thinks of the Purity Crusade. Which is, of course, an excellent reason for doing it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:37:10 -0500From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... >This is one of the best and most chilling pieces of >IN fan-fiction I've ever seen. Also, even though >it's not canon, it's compatible with canon, and >nicely illustrates how Freedom can be a Hellish Word, >when Lilith uses it to murder and Force-strip >babies. If anyone gets tired of Lilith being painted >in a shade they think too Bright, they need only >model her on this vignette. >Earl, who has more than once anxiously checked the >respiration on a very quietly sleeping baby Indeed. The truly chilling bit is that you can still see Lilith's ambiguity ... after all, she's not taking _wanted_ children, so she can't be doing anything that bad, right? Those babies that she takes would be probably doomed to pain, suffering, and probably Hell: this way, they would at least help serve a Rebellion against a uncaring Heaven that only pretends to care about their souls. At least, that would be the rationalization. Granted, the whole argument is hideous, and I'd be watching over my future childrens' cradle packing a loaded shotgun if I thought that an entity like this was actually out there, but it would help explain why Lilith is still fighting the cause of Hell. Her hands are too stained with blood to do anything else. Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Preemptive Self-Defense __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:32:13 +0100 From: Becky Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... that story took me down about 20 degrees. it's highly chilling, but it doesn't quite step over into the realm of horror...at least, if it is, it's very subtle. the way the desriptions are so calm and serene, but then you remember what's going on is in total...*ack...struggles for english word...* I wanna say gwrthwynebiad, but you prolly have no idea what that is... Opposition! I think that's the translation...but with more final overtones, more definate..undeniable. We really need an english word like that *sigh*. Anyways, it was an amazing story. :) Becca. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:40:44 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... I like it. It would explain a lot of mysterious things about Lilith, such as why she has to add at least one of her own Forces to each Lilim. Helps stabilize a formerly "mortal" Force into a stabilized "demonic" Force. I wonder if she has any trouble with the Demon of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome? Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:48:22 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... From: "Wade Hursman" > > I wonder if she has any trouble with the Demon of Sudden Infant Death > Syndrome? Or better yet, what if she has an arrangement with it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:55:56 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... For an even darker take on Lilith, consider that if she's really targetting babies who "weren't wanted," then she is (from her point of view) actually doing their mothers a favor...... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:02:36 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... From: "David Edelstein" > For an even darker take on Lilith, consider that if she's really > targetting babies who "weren't wanted," then she is (from her point of > view) actually doing their mothers a favor...... That was the impression *I* got from reading the original piece... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:55:47 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... In a message dated 4/12/00 4:32:50 PM Central Daylight Time, beccatoria.mordor@dtn.ntl.com writes: << the way the desriptions are so calm and serene, but then you remember what's going on is in total...*ack...struggles for english word...* I wanna say gwrthwynebiad, but you prolly have no idea what that is... Opposition! I think that's the translation...but with more final overtones, more definate..undeniable. We really need an english word like that *sigh*. >> Contrast? Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:52:31 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces > >> So, somewhere in the city of Chicago > >> (I think) > >> there's a 3 foot circle of nuclear glass that's highly > >> radioactive, right? > > Well this brings the question, Does Corp Shields take the form of the surrounding area, or does it remain sphereical, it's influence passing theough matter? > > In addition, what sort of > >emanations does CorpShields stop? > > If you want a precise physical effect, I'd say it stops all energy above > a certain power level. Normal light and sound can get through, but only > because they're very small amounts of energy. Actually normal light has a greater energy than heat, so heat would infact be able to pass through Corp. Shields, in this definition anyway. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:19:51 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Azrael wrote: > Well this brings the question, Does Corp Shields take the form of the > surrounding area, or does it remain sphereical, it's influence passing > theough matter? The latter. > Actually normal light has a greater energy than heat, so heat would infact> be able to pass through Corp. Shields, in this definition anyway. Which is why Songs don't necessarily obey physics. How can the Corporeal Song of Shields stop heat but not light? It's a miracle.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:10:14 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... Becky wrote: > the way the desriptions are so calm and serene, but then you remember > what's going on is in total...*ack...struggles for english word...* I > wanna say gwrthwynebiad, but you prolly have no idea what that is... If I ever wanted to say 'gwrthwynebiad', I'd probably kill myself by choking on my own tongue. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:27:34 +0100 From: Becky Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... :)! Thanks guys - good words all - roll em up together and ya'll get wht I mean. Sorry for the odd word...I *can* speak english; honestly! It's just weird...I'm bilingual and so are most of my friends...so sometimes my brain just refuses to call up the right words, andusually it's not a prob coseveryone understands. So thank you all. anyways, not that I reply to anything that much, but just so's you know, I'm going away for 2 weeks and will be replying even less. It *is* a great story though, I'm gonna print it to show my gaming friends :) And - John - it's not that hard to say :) 'goorth-win-EB-ee-ad', is pretty close. See y'all. Becca. BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/12/00 4:32:50 PM Central Daylight Time, > beccatoria.mordor@dtn.ntl.com writes: > > << the way the desriptions are so calm and serene, but then you remember > what's going on is in total...*ack...struggles for english word...* I > wanna say gwrthwynebiad, but you prolly have no idea what that is... > > Opposition! I think that's the translation...but with more final > overtones, more definate..undeniable. We really need an english word > like that *sigh*. >> > > Contrast? > > Rev. Brian ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1581 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.