From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Apr 14 09:50:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17531 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:50:35 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA31028 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:47:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:47:58 -0500 Message-Id: <200004141447.JAA31028@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1582 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, April 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1582 In this digest: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> A vignette... IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths Re: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra Re: IN> A vignette... IN> Resupplying in Heaven. Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths Re: IN> A vignette... IN> Plot Seed: Ripped from the headlines. . . Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths Re: IN> Plot Seed: Ripped from the headlines. . . Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra Re: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra Re: IN> A vignette... Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. Re: IN> A vignette... IN> Font Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> Font Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:12:42 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 3:52 -0400 4/13/00, Azrael wrote: >> >> So, somewhere in the city of Chicago >> >> (I think) >> >> there's a 3 foot circle of nuclear glass that's highly >> >> radioactive, right? >> > > >Well this brings the question, Does Corp Shields take the form of the >surrounding area, or does it remain sphereical, it's influence passing >theough matter? I'd assume spherical, but mostly because that's how the somewhat similar GURPS spell works. >> > In addition, what sort of >> >emanations does CorpShields stop? >> >> If you want a precise physical effect, I'd say it stops all energy above >> a certain power level. Normal light and sound can get through, but only >> because they're very small amounts of energy. > >Actually normal light has a greater energy than heat, so heat would infact >be able to pass through Corp. Shields, in this definition anyway. I wasn't speaking of the photon energy, but the *overall* energy involved. Figure that Maxwell's Demon is there, only letting through photons below the ultraviolet, and only a maximum number of those, and also blocking mass transfers involving more than a small amount of kinetic energy. So air molecules can diffuse through, and the shield will transmit sound, but energetic mass effects like a bullet, or a high-energy pressure wave like a thunderclap, would be stopped or damped into harmlessness. I'd also assume the Demon is selective about which molecules can pass through, so no poisonous gases, liquids, etc. would go through. It *is* miraculous, after all. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:55:06 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... Becky wrote: > And - John - it's not that hard to say :) 'goorth-win-EB-ee-ad', is > pretty close. I tried that for a bit, but translating it into martian was much easier... ("ack ack ACK ACK ack ACK!") ;) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:49:36 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... In a message dated 4/13/00 7:25:29 AM, jkarakash@dg-rtp.dg.com writes: >Becky wrote: >> the way the desriptions are so calm and serene, but then you remember >> what's going on is in total...*ack...struggles for english word...* >I >> wanna say gwrthwynebiad, but you prolly have no idea what that is... > > If I ever wanted to say 'gwrthwynebiad', I'd probably >kill myself by choking on my own tongue. =) > "I expect Welsh babies dribble a lot." (Sorry, I couldn't resist...) My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest human language could get to the Celestial Toungue. The counter suggestion was Hebrew, but we never came to a conclusion.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:19:30 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Our spies report that on 12:12 PM 4/13/00 -0400, Walter Milliken said: >I wasn't speaking of the photon energy, but the *overall* energy involved. >Figure that Maxwell's Demon is there... Excellent example. I would like to take this moment to suggest reading "Her Majesty's Wizard" by Christopher Stasheff. While a silly book at times, it explores an interesting alternate world where religion is an active force in the life of the people. And the main character actually summons Maxwell's Demon. The interplay between the two of them is quite interesting and it includes a shield being erected over a stone circle in much the same manner as you would expect... But the more I think about it, the more I think an In Nomine game set there would be interesting. Very high contrast...and Laurence, Uriel and Dominic would be very happy with the dominance of their chosen faith... Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:47:15 -0400 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... From: >My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest human > language could get to the Celestial Toungue. The counter suggestion was > Hebrew, but we never came to a conclusion.... Esperanto? Basque? Bork-ish? (The Swedish Chef from the Muppets.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:06:45 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... > Return-Path: gietzeng@pilot.msu.edu > From: > > >My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest human > > language could get to the Celestial Toungue. The counter suggestion was > > Hebrew, but we never came to a conclusion.... > > Esperanto? Basque? Bork-ish? (The Swedish Chef from the Muppets.) Welsh goes MUCh further than any of those. The Celestial tongue is supposed to be musical, flowing, and multilevel. Esperanto is man made (and klingon would be more complex than esperanto). I'd go with icelandic, personally. It is, I beleive, the language that requires the greatest range of vocal tones and tone styles. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:09:30 -0400 From: "Gregory Gietzen" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... From: > My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest human > language could get to the Celestial Toungue. I just came up with an idea I like better than my previous suggestions: Klingon! Picture it: people, influenced by Star Trek (whether or not it's Nybbas-inspired), set out to create this fictional language. Guided by Kobal, they wind up creating the closest human equivalent to Celestial. So now you've got humans wandering around, speaking pidgin-Celestial at conventions... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:06:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Whistling in the Dark ] [??? When did _that_ happen? I don't remember doing it...] >Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:02:37 -0400 >From: Whistling in the Dark >Subject: Malakim, dissonance and oaths > >All right, I'm going a bit insane. I can't for the life of me find >the rules bit where Malakim can swear other Oaths to reduce their >dissonance. I know it's in there -- heck, I even find references *to* >the rule (in the Laurence Superiors 1 writeup, for example), but I >can't find the rule itself. I don't have an APG handy so I'm >beginning to think it's in that, but I could *swear* (no pun >intended) it was in the main book. > >Could someone please enlighten me -- both about the mechanic and >about where it is? Thanks. You're ginchy. >-- >Eric Alfred Burns - - > Systems type - Manager by day - Writer - Online Journaller > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:07:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Rob.Seutter" ] >From: "Rob.Seutter" >Subject: Questions about Abracadabra >Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:00:08 -0400 > >Greetings, > >Being a typical player, I am always looking for new and interesting uses for >abilities. I have a character who recently got the "abracadbra" attunement. >Likewise, my GM, wisely wants to keep me from abusing this (I'm an ancient >GM myself). >Questions- how specific can the forms be- a square foot of wood or iron is >not all that useful, but a sword on the other hand..... >When it comes to precious metals, etc. If somebody wanted make a diamond >(basic carbon after all) how precious could it be? Other issues like making >plutonium, acids, akalines, poisons, nitro/glycerine? I want to make this >ability useful as opposed to yet another "oh look, another Eli parlor >trick". Suggestions, ideas? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Rob >Seutter > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:46:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... At 9:37 AM -0500 4/12/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >This is one of the best and most chilling pieces of IN fan-fiction I've >ever seen. >Also, even though it's not canon, (Yet...) >it's compatible with canon, At least, I should hope so... O;> Truth be told, I don't think I ever _didn't_ see this aspect of her, even a couple years ago. At 10:30 AM -0400 4/12/00, John Karakash wrote: > Hmmmm... That story seems familiar. It ought to be somewhere in the digests, maybe a year back or so... O:> > The only difference I notice is that in the story, Lilith >does it because it's more convenient (chilling, indeed!) (People underestimate the horror of uncaring actions -- lack of malice... has no handles, no place to grab hold and throw hot anger. It's just... cold.) >and in mine it's a requirement to make Lilim. Just think about such a created Lilim meeting, somday, her "other parents"...? At 2:03 PM -0700 4/12/00, Maurice Lane wrote: >Indeed. The truly chilling bit is that you can still >see Lilith's ambiguity ...[...] >At least, that would be the rationalization. Doesn't everyone see themselves as the hero, their actions totally justified and hardly wrong at all? Or, in a more In Nomine lens, isn't that rather characteristic of _humans_? (I love being creepy...) At 10:32 PM +0100 4/12/00, Becky wrote: >Anyways, it was an amazing story. :) Thanks! (Just remeber to keep my name on it, since I _did_ write it, and I don't really want it appearing without my name attached... O:> ) At 6:40 PM -0500 4/12/00, Wade Hursman wrote: >I wonder if she has any trouble with the Demon of Sudden Infant Death >Syndrome? IMC, any such demon would get toasted by her at the earliest opportunity -- talk about wasting a resource! ("Hey, Christopher, wanna have this demon I found? Here, yours for just 50 Forces, the current Demon of SIDS." "Third one this century... Are you sure you're not helping them get Worded?" "Who, me> Why should I, when Saminga's so obliging on his own?") But that's not canon. That's just what _I'd_ do. It's petty, keeping sole dominion over an aspect of one's history one isn't particularly proud of (_really_, sneaking into houses and _stealing_ Forces because one was too weak to get them any other way... how embarassing!), but hey, what fun is it to be a Demon Princess if you can't be petty with huge amounts of power? At 6:55 PM -0500 4/12/00, David Edelstein wrote: >if she's really targetting babies who "weren't wanted," then she is >(from her point of view) actually doing their mothers a favor...... with it. So I _started_ it sick and wrong, and the teacher's comment, when it got to her, was "_Elizabeth!_ _You_ wrote _this_???" in tones of gratifiying horror and appalledness.> I should try to be creepy s'more sometime. - --Beth, catching up as she can, while A: taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, B: running back & forth between the condo and the new house, and C: coming down with a flu probably. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:48:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths At 5:06 PM -0400 4/13/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>>From: Whistling in the Dark > >>All right, I'm going a bit insane. I can't for the life of me find >>the rules bit where Malakim can swear other Oaths to reduce their >>dissonance. APG, Malakite section, dealing with dissonance. I think that's the C-head title, in fact: "Dealing with Dissonance." One oath per note removed... >>but I could *swear* (no pun intended) it was in the main book. (Hee.) Alas, no. It's in the APG only. - --Beth, catching up as she can, while A: taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, B: running back & forth between the condo and the new house, and C: coming down with a flu probably. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:58:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra >>From: "Rob.Seutter" >>Likewise, my GM, wisely wants to keep me from abusing this (I'm an ancient >>GM myself). >>Questions- how specific can the forms be- a square foot of wood or iron is >>not all that useful, but a sword on the other hand..... IMC, it would require an approprite skill roll to get something in a specific form. E.g., Artistry (sculpting) for a sculpture, Artistry (drawing) to forge a $100 bill, Artistry (Metalworking) [probably] for a sword, etc. Also remember that even if you make a sharp sword- shaped thing, you only get it in _one_ material. No leather hand-grip, etc. Also, no damascus blades, I figure, unless you get a Divine Invervention. Isn't there something in that attunement (or the errata for it? www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata ) that says you get only very small amounts of non-organics like iron, though? >>When it comes to precious metals, etc. If somebody wanted make a diamond >>(basic carbon after all) how precious could it be? Go for the roll and check digit. If it's a CD 1, then it's not a very high quality diamond. If it's a CD 6, it's nice. Call that one, hm... Artistry having to do with jewels, or Knowledge of an appropriate type, I'd say. >>Other issues like making >>plutonium, acids, akalines, poisons, nitro/glycerine? These, I get more hard on -- if the angel hasn't encountered the substance thoroughly, and doesn't know how to make it mundanely as well... No dice. You can try but it won't be all that good. (I am going to lobby hard for this to be canon in the future...) For instance, a Creationer wanted to make a nice drug to facilitate questioning of a demon -- IIRC, I asked for an Int roll and the potency was based on the CD. (The PC gave a good arguement that she would probably have experience with recreational drugs, and thus should be allowed a roll. O:> ) I suggest taking a skill point in Chemistry... - --Beth, catching up as she can, while A: taking care of her little preemie, the Impudite Princess of Cute, aka Iolanthe, B: running back & forth between the condo and the new house, and C: coming down with a flu probably. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:11:25 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... > >and in mine it's a requirement to make Lilim. I just wondered - what if it is specifically Etherial forces that are required to make a Lilim? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:18:40 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. My angels went to Heaven to hike out to a Tether of Water. They got there and realized they would need warm clothes, walky-talkies, a gun, and other stuff once they hit Antarctica through the Tether. They also needed essence. In Heaven, how can they accomplish these goals? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:41:21 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. >In Heaven, how can they accomplish these goals? You can't get physical things in Heaven (unless it's a Celestial Artifact, which is ridiculously expensive). However, you can pop down to some other earthly Tether and pick up the goods at the Corporeal end; it'll reappear with your vessel. In other words, you go UP to Heaven, find the end of Tether (of Marc, say) there, go DOWN to -- we'll say -- Marc's Tether in the basement of Macy's Department Store in New York City, make your purchases, go back UP to Heaven, find the end of the Water Tether, and go DOWN. Voila. The Essence... mm, basically you have to ask someone for it. Your Superior. A friend. It can be freely given, and in Heaven it often is... but there's a War on, resources are limited, so you'll have to (1) find someone who's directly interested in what you're doing, and (2) have a good convincing story. Or you could offer to trade for it. That usually works. A Seraph can tell if you'll honestly try to pay it back, a Mercurian will usually know if you're trustworthy... Or take out an Essence loan from one of Marc's people. You'll have to pay it back, of course. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:30:04 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. I think it really depends on the specifics of Heaven in your campaign. My instinct would be to send them down to earth for the stuff (which they would have to keep with their vessels, so big things, like snowmobiles, wouldn't be possible), and to set them at their rites for the Essence. You may want to let them take out a loan from a friendly servitor of Marc, though (especially if they're *really* short of essence, or if time is short). Maybe they can rent reliquaries? It may also, at your discretion, be possible for them to petition their superiors for the corporeal things, and have it placed directly on their vessels. I figure if the vessels are created fully clothed (which is reasonable, otherwise all angels and demons would appear naked on earth the first time ^_^) the purely corporeal things that a vessel has can be modified as well. It's your call, of course. This can be as simple or as complex as the story demands. Hoping this is vaguely helpful, Ryan ben wrote: > > My angels went to Heaven to hike out to a Tether of Water. > > They got there and realized they would need warm clothes, walky-talkies, a > gun, and other stuff once they hit Antarctica through the Tether. > > They also needed essence. > > In Heaven, how can they accomplish these goals? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:17:08 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths At 5:06 PM -0400 4/13/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission >from [Whistling in the Dark ] > >[??? When did _that_ happen? I don't remember doing it...] It didn't. I have an account specifically for IN stuff (in-sabre, which is a disturbing image if you think about it). I accidentially sent my Malakim plea (which I since fixed with a glance at the APG, which as I said was where it probably was) from my base account, which I'm not subscribed under. So, my apologies for the inconvenience. We now return you to "As Haagenti Turns," already in progress. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:33:12 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... > > >My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest human > > > language could get to the Celestial Toungue. The counter suggestion was > > > Hebrew, but we never came to a conclusion.... > > > > Esperanto? Basque? Bork-ish? (The Swedish Chef from the Muppets.) > > Welsh goes MUCh further than any of those. The Celestial tongue is > supposed to be musical, flowing, and multilevel. [...] Uh-Uh, not even, Bork-ish all the way. Or as John has previously highlighted, Martian! Ack-Ack-ACK (Azrael) or Is that Ack-ACK-ack? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:43:25 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: IN> Plot Seed: Ripped from the headlines. . . (Summerized) from the Associated Press: "Three first-grade students are arrested in Lake Station, Indiana (USA), after plotting to murder a classmate of theirs. Going so far as to draw a crude map to where the deed was to take place, and thoughts of shooting, dismemberment or hanging the victim in their minds. . ." If this story wasn't ripped from an actual headline, you'd swear it was the efforts of a Shedite of Malphas (or Baal). This particular Shedite has gotten three seven year old _girls_ so worked up, that they'd go so far as form a Hate-Club and plot another girl's death. (Either that, or maybe the Humans really _are_ this sick. . . And the Demons will profit from it somehow.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:49:04 +1000 From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths > >>All right, I'm going a bit insane. I can't for the life of me find > >>the rules bit where Malakim can swear other Oaths to reduce their > >>dissonance. > > APG, Malakite section, dealing with dissonance. I think that's > the C-head title, in fact: "Dealing with Dissonance." One oath > per note removed... One note per two oaths, actually. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:02:49 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Malakim, dissonance and oaths At 10:49 AM +1000 4/14/00, Azrael wrote: > > >>All right, I'm going a bit insane. I can't for the life of me find > > >>the rules bit where Malakim can swear other Oaths to reduce their > > >>dissonance. > > > > APG, Malakite section, dealing with dissonance. I think that's > > the C-head title, in fact: "Dealing with Dissonance." One oath > > per note removed... > >One note per two oaths, actually. Right. That's what I picked up. It works out nicely, as one (1) capture by the Forces of Hell equalled two (2) oaths for the character, which as she was a Malakite of the Sword meant I got to do some good Catholic stuff with her. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:31:12 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> Plot Seed: Ripped from the headlines. . . Humans really are this sick. Just ask Saminga about the Holocaust. Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:13:30 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 14:19 -0400 4/13/00, Sean McCarthy wrote: > I would like to take this moment to suggest reading >"Her Majesty's Wizard" by Christopher Stasheff. While a silly book at >times, it explores an interesting alternate world where religion is an >active force in the life of the people. ... >But the more I think about it, the more I think an In Nomine game set there >would be interesting. Very high contrast...and Laurence, Uriel and Dominic >would be very happy with the dominance of their chosen faith... Yeah, though I'd much rather see their reaction to St. Vidicon of the Cathode, from his "Warlock" series. Stasheff somewhat resembles C.S. Lewis, in that he's a fantasy writer who uses Christian religious elements in his writing regularly. He's not quite as heavy-handed about it as Lewis, though. The only other case I can think of is the SF writer James Blish, who did some interesting stuff with religion in a future SF context. - ---Walter (who just finished reading the Narnia books) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:21:06 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... At 18:11 -0400 4/13/00, Prodigal wrote: >> >and in mine it's a requirement to make Lilim. > >I just wondered - what if it is specifically Etherial forces that are >required to make a Lilim? I think that we've settled on it in our campaign that the "Lilim Force" that must come from Lilith personally is an Ethereal Force. I don't think this will ever be canon, though -- it's too specific and not particularly important. Better to leave the precise nature of Lilim CDaU (though it's not officially that, either, as far as I know) -- it's more fun having players be unsure about it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:02:38 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. At 19:18 -0400 4/13/00, ben wrote: >My angels went to Heaven to hike out to a Tether of Water. > >They got there and realized they would need warm clothes, walky-talkies, a >gun, and other stuff once they hit Antarctica through the Tether. Warm clothes aren't a problem, unless they're going to deal with mundanes - -- angels don't really feel temperature extremes the way humans do, though some of the colder temperatures in Antartica might get to them. The other stuff: The easy way is to get it at some other corporeal location, and carry it "on them" when they go celestial. This would mean dressing in the stuff at some friendly Tether, and ascending, or ascending to their Hearts after getting it and putting it on. This only works for small stuff. A harder way is to use a celestial artifact. In my campaign, there are a number of otherwise-corporeal objects that have been "celestialized" simply to make it so they can be taken to the celestial realm and manipulated there. Other solutions include: asking a Superior to supply the equipment, either by "linking" it with a vessel while the owner is in the celestial realm, or simply sending it to the lower Tether locus. If any characters are Servitors of Jean, it's possible that he'd be willing to supply some equipment that way (as long as it was otherwise mundane, off-the-shelf stuff). Marc would probably also be helpful to one of his Servitors this way, and might be willing to make a deal with other angels. Another possibility (strictly non-canon) would be to give Marc's Ofanim the added ability to use their Servitor Attunement to carry (possibly large) corporeal objects through the celestial realm with them. >They also needed essence. Essence is relatively easy to come by in Heaven -- I'd assume anyone with a reasonable story of legitimate need to be able to get it from fellow Servitors of their Superior. Tether Senescals have easy access to Essence, and can supply it at need (see L.Castellorum), but tend to be harder sells on the necessity.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:17:50 -0400 From: Andrew Dawson Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 11:13 PM 04/13/2000 -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: >Stasheff somewhat resembles C.S. Lewis, in that he's a fantasy writer >who uses Christian religious elements in his writing regularly. He's >not quite as heavy-handed about it as Lewis, though. The only other >case I can think of is the SF writer James Blish, who did some interesting >stuff with religion in a future SF context. I'd like to add J.R.R. Tolkien to this list and some of my friends claim that Orson Scott Card also uses a lot of Christian elements. Thanks, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:25:52 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces At 12:17 AM -0400 4/14/00, Andrew Dawson wrote: >At 11:13 PM 04/13/2000 -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: > >Stasheff somewhat resembles C.S. Lewis, in that he's a fantasy writer > >who uses Christian religious elements in his writing regularly. He's > >not quite as heavy-handed about it as Lewis, though. The only other > >case I can think of is the SF writer James Blish, who did some interesting > >stuff with religion in a future SF context. > >I'd like to add J.R.R. Tolkien to this list and some of my friends claim >that Orson Scott Card also uses a lot of Christian elements. Yes and no, really. Card is a very active Mormon, but has gone on record that he's not interested in writing Christian Fantasy, Mormon Fantasy, or Christan/Mormon Science Fiction. He does admit his beliefs have an influence on his writing, though. So it's kind of a tossup -- not the allegorical works that Narnian or Lewis's Space Trilogy are, or the direct stuff Stasheff does. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:52:06 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >These, I get more hard on -- if the angel hasn't encountered >the substance thoroughly, and doesn't know how to make it mundanely >as well... No dice. You can try but it won't be all that good. (I >am going to lobby hard for this to be canon in the future...) > Works for me. I'd also think that unless there was absolutely no time and using the attunement was the only way to make the substance, most creationers would actually prefer to make it themselves, the 'proper' way, if they had the knowledge and the time. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 00 01:14:30 -0500 From: Planewalker Subject: Re: IN> FWD: Questions about Abracadabra >Works for me. I'd also think that unless there was absolutely no time and >using the attunement was the only way to make the substance, most >creationers would actually prefer to make it themselves, the 'proper' way, >if they had the knowledge and the time. I don't know about the "love of creating" theory. I had a Mercurian who had Abracadabra, and he often created small items out of thin air, helping add a hint of magic and wonder to the act of creation. I think it worked well. Planewalker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:53:59 +0100 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... At 10:33 14/04/2000 +1000, you wrote: > >> > >My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest >human >> > > language could get to the Celestial Toungue. The counter suggestion >was >> > > Hebrew, but we never came to a conclusion.... >> > >> > Esperanto? Basque? Bork-ish? (The Swedish Chef from the Muppets.) >> >> Welsh goes MUCh further than any of those. The Celestial tongue is >> supposed to be musical, flowing, and multilevel. >[...] > >Uh-Uh, not even, Bork-ish all the way. >Or as John has previously highlighted, Martian! > >Ack-Ack-ACK (Azrael) > > or Is that Ack-ACK-ack? My non-chinese friends have told me that they find Cantonese to be a very sing-song tongue (and amusing too). They only ever hear Cantonese when I'm on the phone to my parents, but tend to have to suppress smiles... Anyway, I propose a variation of Cantonese. Musical, flowing, multi-tonal, completely alien to the majority of IN players out there. More than fulfills the specification... Pak ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 03:26:09 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Resupplying in Heaven. From: "Douglas Muir" > Or you could offer to trade for it. That usually works. A Seraph can tell > if you'll honestly try to pay it back, a Mercurian will usually know if > you're trustworthy... In Heaven proper, you just have to say that you will pay it back. If you don't really mean it, your speech will give you away as a liar. Heaven-tounge is *really useful*. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 03:21:12 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> A vignette... > >My wife once, in game, suggested that Welsh was actually the closest human > > language could get to the Celestial Toungue. The counter suggestion was > > Hebrew, but we never came to a conclusion.... Enochian. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:16:37 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: IN> Font Okay, it's time to spruce up the graphics around the site once more (as I've already converted it to non-frames - just for Beth!). Anybody know where I can pick up a TrueType Font (near-)identical to the official In Nomine font? Morpheus looks good, but it's just not close enough for me. Thanks in advance! - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of Kronos - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:43:46 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Andrew Dawson wrote: > I'd like to add J.R.R. Tolkien to this list and some of my friends claim > that Orson Scott Card also uses a lot of Christian elements. OSC is actually an occasional preacher! I saw a tape of some of his stuff, but was a poor college student at the time and didn't pick it up. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:45:03 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Font "Erich S. Arendall" wrote: > > Okay, it's time to spruce up the graphics around the site once more (as I've > already converted it to non-frames - just for Beth!). Anybody know where I > can pick up a TrueType Font (near-)identical to the official In Nomine font? > Morpheus looks good, but it's just not close enough for me. It depends on whether you want to spend money or not. There's some info in the FAQ if you do. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:23:49 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces Concerning C.S. Lewis, James Blish, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Orson Scott Card, as writers who use Christian religious elements in their fantasy writing: Each one uses them differently. (Big surprise.) In his Space Trilogy ("Out of the Silent Planet," "Perelandra," and "That Hideous Strength"), Lewis has the real world c. 1945, plus a Solar System in which Mars and Venus are inhabited and human-habitable. We also have a population of space-dwelling things called "eldila," who are equally "energy beings" and angels, and, in the course of the trilogy it becomes evident that Christianity is simply true. In Lewis's Narnia series (seven books starting with "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe"), mundane children are periodically swept into the fantasy world of Narnia, featuring myth-creatures, talking animals, and the Lion Aslan, whom Lewis himself described as a hypothetical alternate incarnation of Christ. James Blish wrote an SF novel called "A Case of Conscience," in which a Jesuit priest is a member of an early exploratory expedition to the planet Lithia, our first occasion to contact intelligent aliens. Grave questions arise -- in the priest's mind and in the minds of other Christians -- about the theological status of the aliens and their planet, but all the events admit equally of Christian and secular interpretations. In Blish's "Black Easter" and "Day After Judgement," we have modern-day sorcerors conjuring up demons, and the whole Christian word-view (with some dark twists) is open to view. In the SF novels "The Star Dwellers" and "Mission to the Heart Stars," humans beginning the exploration of interstellar space encounter energy beings whom they nickname "angels," but as the two novels proceed, it becomes clearer and clearer how appropriate the nickname is... But there is nothing specifically Christian about it; it would equally well fit Islam, Judaism, or Zoroastrianism. In Tolkien's Middle Earth (though clearly depicted only in "The Silmarillion" and later works dredged up posthumously by his son), you have a monotheistic God, Who creates the world through the agency of his created servants the Valar (occasionally called "gods" or "angelic powers") and the lesser Maiar. Little, if anything, is specifically Christian, though. I haven't read a lot of Card, but what I have only presents a Christian coloring of ethics, or worlds in which Christian religion is important to some of the characters. Whistling in the Dark wrote: > So it's kind of a > tossup -- not the allegorical works that Narnian or Lewis's Space > Trilogy are, or the direct stuff Stasheff does. Lewis did write the occasional allegory, but neither Narnia nor the Space Trilogy are allegories. Being, by profession, a scholar of medieval literature, Lewis was very clear about what an allegory is, and went so far as to write, in the preface, that "Perelandra" was not allegorical. An allegory is a story built like a political cartoon. You can decode it into another story, with a one-to-one match between the significant elements of each story. Just as in a political cartoon, the donkey and the elephant decode to the Democratic and Republican parties, so, in an allegory, the protagonist may decode to "any human soul" and a battle may decode to the conflict of good and evil, etc. With its mechanic of Words, In Nomine presents a world where the line between literal and allegorical is deliberately blurred as part of the game setting. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:40:23 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN: Atomic bombs and Forces And so, the great "Allegorical/Non-Allegorical" Floating Lewis Debate makes its way onto IN. Can arguments about Thomas Covenant sucking or not sucking be far behind? At 10:23 AM -0500 4/14/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > > So it's kind of a > > tossup -- not the allegorical works that Narnian or Lewis's Space > > Trilogy are, or the direct stuff Stasheff does. > > Lewis did write the occasional allegory, but neither Narnia >nor the Space Trilogy are allegories. By the definition of Allegory, "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" and "The Last Battle" are both deeply allegorical. The Christ Figure who dies to redeem those who were wicked by their own choice, and in so doing shatters the stone table of the old laws to become the logical conclusion and usher of a new world. The coming of false prophets (and false Aslans) as talking animals lose their souls and the ability to talk in the face of an Anti-Christ figure, before our principals move on to a Heavenly city. These are both, as you say, decodable from Fantasy Literature into Gospal with little work. >With its mechanic of Words, In Nomine presents a world where the line >between literal and allegorical is deliberately blurred as part of the >game setting. I'm not sure I follow. I can more accept that the Mythopoetic (or, even deeper, Deconstructionist uses of Sign/Significator/Significated) go from Literary Criticism to the foundational philosophys of Heaven, Earth and Symphony in In Nomine than the Word-structure makes the lines of literal and allegorical blurred. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1582 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.