From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Apr 19 16:06:38 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17755 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:06:37 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA30190 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:03:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:03:35 -0500 Message-Id: <200004192103.QAA30190@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1587 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, April 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1587 In this digest: Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion Re: IN> Christian writers applicable to IN Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, with a good backbeat...) Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion RE: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofth eOfanite, with a good backbeat...) Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, witha good backbeat...) Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, with a good backbeat...) Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) RE: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, with a good backbeat...) Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) IN> Metatron. (Was Mariel/Dead Superiors thread) Re: IN> Metatron. (Was Mariel/Dead Superiors thread) Re: IN> Metatron. (Was Mariel/Dead Superiors thread) IN> Introducing myself ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:26:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Guy Royse Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion > > There was a really good documentary on A&E about the lost tribes > > called "Quest for the Lost Tribes". The person who made the > > documentary claims to have found nine of the ten tribes in India, > > China, Ubekistan, and Pakistan. It was quite interesting. A&E > > will be re-running it, they tend to do that, and the video is > > also for sale on their website. > > *snicker* Did they mention the British Israelite movement, which > avows that Anglo-Saxons are the TRUE Ten Lost Tribes, or the > Mormon doctrine that American Indians are the Ten Lost Tribes? No. This was legitamate anthropology. They did photograph several interesting artifacts. Large stones in the Khyber pass with Herbrew script, some graves in northern Indian. And the local populations they interviewed were odd subcultures of the area, like the Amish, only Hebrew and having names that were very simililar to the names of the lost tribes. One group in China would eat pork but considered it an unclean and would only eat it mixed with ash. Truly a fascinating show. I can imagine a group of angels who's sole job it is to watch over the tribes. Or maybe Litheroy wants to to reveal their presence to the world and inadvenrtantly trigger the Armageddon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:24:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Christian writers applicable to IN At 11:04 PM +0000 4/14/00, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:17:50 -0400 Andrew Dawson wrote: >Terry Brooks' _Running With the Demon_, _Knight of the Word_, and _Angel Fire >East_ (note that i haven't read this last trilogy, but it does look good). Running With the Demon is okay, but Knight of the Word is, IMAO, booooring. Not enough time on the _interesting_ character, and too much angsting about the formerly mysterious "Knight" of the title. (I got sent both as a pre-reader thing and wasn't enthused about the first, and panned the second. No clue if my opinions reflect anything at all...) I haven't tried reading Angel Fire East -- I was already glad I hadn't paid money for the first two. O;> - --Beth, catching up as she can, while cuddling her _6 pound 2 ounce_ (in her diaper) Iolanthe (aka the Impudite Princess of Cute), and wishing for her computer chair which is still in the condo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:09:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, with a good backbeat...) At 11:51 AM -0500 4/18/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: >> My point was that pretty much all the questions that will arise about >> Shields have already come up for Force Dome in GURPS. And I see no reason >> to simply ignore a well-playtested, similar effect in another game, just >> because the superficial trappings are different. > >Because they're different games. Go ahead and GURPSify In Nomine, >instead of being content to just write a GURPS translation, and put >another nail in its coffin. He never said that he wanted to make that _canon_ -- indeed, later in that email he says: "Frankly, it makes more sense to me to have something here as a set of guidelines, so GMs don't dig themselves into pits with their rulings, [...] I don't say the Force Dome-cribbed stuff should be in the actual Song text, just maybe part of the FAQ." Guidelines. FAQ. Not "errata to Songbook." This discussion clearly needs a NOT CANON, JUST A SUGGESTION lable. - --Beth, catching up as she can, while cuddling her _6 pound 2 ounce_ (in her diaper) Iolanthe (aka the Impudite Princess of Cute), and wishing for her computer chair which is still in the condo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:13:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion At 1:13 AM -0400 4/18/00, Douglas Muir wrote: >>Makes me pine for a Lost Superiors book... >>writeups of Uriel, Oannes, Vephar, Mariel, Meserach... > >According to our beloved Line Editor, it's out there... in the distance, >someday. > >(Though I'm not sure if it's a single book of Lost Superiors, or inclusion >of some of them in later books in the Superiors lineup. Elizabeth?) My dream (which may or may not achieve reality) is to have Lost Superiors as their own book. Considering that there are three lost Archangels -- Raphael, Uriel, and Oannes -- I'm wondering if I can't find some way to, someday, get one more dug up and shove them all into a book of their own. (If I could get the Powers That Be to pull the AA of Death out of DaU, maybe...) Unless that lot are meaty enough to pull off getting a book of only 3. The ex-Princes are numerous enough they could fill a book all to themselves. Now, if you want to see that dream become reality, the line needs to sell well enough to justify that. Which means you all need to be buying lots and getting your friends to buy lots... O:> - --Beth, catching up as she can, while cuddling her _6 pound 2 ounce_ (in her diaper) Iolanthe (aka the Impudite Princess of Cute), and wishing for her computer chair which is still in the condo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:19:28 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > He never said that he wanted to make that _canon_ -- indeed, later in that > email he says: > > "Frankly, it makes more sense to me to have something here as a set of > guidelines, so GMs don't dig themselves into pits with their rulings, [...] > I don't say the Force Dome-cribbed stuff should be in the actual Song text, > just maybe part of the FAQ." > > Guidelines. FAQ. Not "errata to Songbook." Something that is put into the FAQ has a stamp of official approval on it, and is thus pushing In Nomine interpretations and paradigms in a GURPS-ward direction. It's saying, in effect, "We, the official In Nomine writers, believe that In Nomine effects should be interpreted much like GURPS spells." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:14:01 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion >From: Elizabeth McCoy > >My dream (which may or may not achieve reality) is to have Lost Superiors >as their own book. Considering that there are three lost Archangels -- >Raphael, Uriel, and Oannes -- I'm wondering if I can't find some way >to, someday, get one more dug up ... Archangel of Song jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:15:45 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofth eOfanite, with a good backbeat...) "One possible model for thinking through how the Corporeal Song of Shields interacts with the world is the GURPS spell Force Dome. This is a more mechanistic version of how the Song would work, and captures the flavor of 'miracle' less than following the description in Liber Canticorum. However, if you have players who inquire about the exact details of Song's effects, modelling them after GURPS spells will make the effect you implement more consistent. Your Mileage May, Of Course, Vary." steve - -----Original Message----- From: David Edelstein [mailto:amadan@amadan.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 3:19 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > He never said that he wanted to make that _canon_ -- indeed, later in that > email he says: > > "Frankly, it makes more sense to me to have something here as a set of > guidelines, so GMs don't dig themselves into pits with their rulings, [...] > I don't say the Force Dome-cribbed stuff should be in the actual Song text, > just maybe part of the FAQ." > > Guidelines. FAQ. Not "errata to Songbook." Something that is put into the FAQ has a stamp of official approval on it, and is thus pushing In Nomine interpretations and paradigms in a GURPS-ward direction. It's saying, in effect, "We, the official In Nomine writers, believe that In Nomine effects should be interpreted much like GURPS spells." - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:40:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) > Something that is put into the FAQ has a stamp of official approval on > it, and is thus pushing In Nomine interpretations and paradigms in a > GURPS-ward direction. It's saying, in effect, "We, the official In > Nomine writers, believe that In Nomine effects should be interpreted > much like GURPS spells." And heck, if we're going to be doing other systems, I think that there should be fair representation. Heck, I'm a pretty hard-core AD&D player - -- where are the Songs done in for AD&D? And what about people who play FUDGE? Or Fuzion? Or Palladium? Or White Wolf? Or Feng Shui (schticks)? Or Cthulhu/Nephilim? Or Human Occupied Landfill? If you're going to be putting in interpretations of Songs into the FAQ in one person's favorite system, you might as well interpret it as ALL systems. It's not really.... fair.... to start just doing GURPS, right? (Besides, doing Songs in AD&D will further my plans for Planescape world conquest.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emily K. Dresner -- Writer, Musician, Hacker, Maniac Client Code Monkey, SelectPlay -- http://www.selectplay.com/ Mook, Guardians of Order, BESM -- http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca/ Pyramid Columnist, "Women in Gaming" -- http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ Freelancer, In Nomine -- http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:44:29 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, witha good backbeat...) Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > A Song is much more "sensitive" or "intelligent." It does what > you mean, not what you say. It doesn't deliver the kind of > humor or horror you get from spells run amok. It won't run amok. At least it won't run amok if it isn't intended to... Trent Ofanite of Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:52:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Mariel, Demon Princess of Oblivion On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Considering that there are three lost Archangels -- Raphael, Uriel, > and Oannes -- I'm wondering if I can't find some way to, someday, get > one more dug up and shove them all into a book of their own. There's also Metatron. It's not clear exactly *what* the Voice of God was, but you should be able to fit him into a book with three dead Archangels. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:11:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, with a good backbeat...) At 6:09 PM -0400 4/18/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Guidelines. FAQ. Not "errata to Songbook." And, as further note to myself, a FAQ could quite easily say, "It's a miracle, ad lib it" _and_ "Or, if you don't want to do that, consult the very similiar in some ways GURPS spell." (Since the people who ask in a way that implies, "give me canon, give me hard and fast rules" aren't going to want to do the ad lib stuff anyway -- if they'd wanted to do that, they wouldn't have asked. Have all of you lot who said, "It's a miracle, don't hem it in!" ever asked or even _thought_ about asking, "how does it work?"?) Now don't gimme hassle today -- Io-chan's immunization shots are making her rather cranky, and there's nothing more heartrending than a crying baby who probably isn't getting much relief from the baby-Tylenol she was given, if her biochemistry is anything like mine. (Asprin and Tylenol give me little to no relief from pain. Give me Ibuprofin! But of course she can't have that yet.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, while cuddling her _6 pound 2 ounce_ (in her diaper) Iolanthe (aka the Impudite Princess of Cute), and wishing for her computer chair which is still in the condo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:38:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And, as further note to myself, a FAQ could quite easily say, > "It's a miracle, ad lib it" _and_ "Or, if you don't want to do that, > consult the very similiar in some ways GURPS spell." This assumes that most IN players play GURPS and own GURPS Grimoire, or that the only two possibilities are to "ad lib" it or use the GURPS spell (i.e., that there is no way to be consistent about its effects other than by using a GURPS-mechanistic model). > (Since the people who ask in a way that implies, "give me canon, > give me hard and fast rules" aren't going to want to do the ad lib > stuff anyway -- if they'd wanted to do that, they wouldn't have > asked. Not always true -- some people want to know if there IS canon on its exact effects, possibly because they want to know just how to treat In Nomine Songs in general. Tell them to refer to a GURPS spell, and you're telling them "Treat In Nomine Songs like GURPS spells." > Have all of you lot who said, "It's a miracle, don't hem > it in!" ever asked or even _thought_ about asking, "how does it > work?"?) Sure. Off the top of my head, I can think of several ways to handle the Corporeal Song of Shields: 1. (My favorite, since it's closest to the Song description): It acts like a whirlwind that generally follows the countours of its environment, but a supernatural one that stops everything that gets in its path. It stops bullets and laser beams and fire and tidal waves and the jaws of an orca, but it doesn't gouge a spherical trench through the earth as it moves with you, and it doesn't stop sound or light (unless it's focused/damaging sound or light, such as a sonic beam or a laser). It doesn't stop air, but it will stop smoke and poison gas. (If you are completely immersed in a toxic atmosphere, it might act as a magical air filter while the Song lasts, or you might say eventually some is going to seep in.) As you move, it moves with you and will tend to throw anything it touches that's not anchored to the ground. Things that ARE anchored to the ground might or might not be uprooted...I'd say flowers, yes, trees, probably not. 2. As above, but make it behave more sensibly, less miraculously. If it doesn't stop light, it won't stop a laser. If it doesn't stop sound, it won't stop a sonic beam. If it doesn't stop air, then while it might blow away smoke or poison gas for a little while, it's not going to act like an air filter. 3. Treat it like a magical aura that's one-directional; it stops all the bad effects from coming in, as described in #1, but can't exert any real force against things outside of it. 4. Treat it like a Force Dome. 5. It stops ALL violence passing throught it, negating force and inertia and everything else. If someone lands on it from above, they'll just stop falling and maybe bounce to the ground. If you activate it while *you're* falling, it will make you brake instantly when you hit the ground, but without harm. Summon it around a moving vehicle, and the car can go careening through traffic like a bumper car, miraculously colliding with everything in sight but leaving no dents or other damage. Name notwithstanding, GURPS magic is NOT a generic universal system, any more than AD&D magic or In Nomine "magic" is a generic universal system. GURPS magic comes with a certain set of assumptions about how the universe (natural and supernatural) works, and magic follows very specific rules which are unlike the rules that magic follows in other games or settings. It's foolish to assume that magic will behave the way it does in GURPS as a default, or that GURPS magic is appropriate for any setting in which supernatural effects occur. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:13:40 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feelofthe Ofanite, with a good backbeat...) > And, as further note to myself, a FAQ could quite easily say, > "It's a miracle, ad lib it" _and_ "Or, if you don't want to do that, > consult the very similiar in some ways GURPS spell." > > --Beth, catching up as she can, while cuddling her _6 pound 2 ounce_ > (in her diaper) Iolanthe (aka the Impudite Princess of Cute), > and wishing > for her computer chair which is still in the condo. > Hmm... Even *if* the decision of the powers that be was to use a Force Dome-like interpretation of CorpShields, there is no reason to reference GURPS in the FAQ. If the FAQ clarified it with a description that approximated Force Dome without referring to Force Dome, then David's GURPS-precdent problem wouldn't really exist (sure, some people might get the reference, but if you know GURPS well enough to be able to spot a reference to the errata on a Grimoire spell on sight, I doubt any GURPS-positive influence can make any difference...) - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:50:16 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: Corporeal Song of Shields (was Re: IN> The look and feeloftheOfanite, with a good backbeat...) > Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > And, as further note to myself, a FAQ could quite easily say, > > "It's a miracle, ad lib it" _and_ "Or, if you don't want to do that, > > consult the very similiar in some ways GURPS spell." > > This assumes that most IN players play GURPS and own GURPS Grimoire, or > that the only two possibilities are to "ad lib" it or use the GURPS > spell (i.e., that there is no way to be consistent about its effects > other than by using a GURPS-mechanistic model). Well, this does hurt to say... but I agree with David E. It burns, it burns us... If I wanted to be playing, reading, referencing, whatever GURPS. I would be. But I'm not, I'm playing IN. A really fun game, with great writing (tip o' the hat to you all) and some what I feel is one of the better game engines out there. I've been playing RPG's for 20 years now and have gone through damn near every set of rules on the planet it seems like. I have had three games that I still play in all the ones that I have owned at one time or another, Cyberpunk, Call of Cthulhu, and my home-brew Fantasy game. About two years ago I added IN, and I have loved it since then. The rules work, make sense, the flavor text is fantastic, and my friends also seem to be enjoying it. Of course I also managed to talk my partner into running it rather than me which is a big plus. However, if I start to feel like I have to be buying A WHOLE 'NOTHER GAME ENGINE in order to play the game I like... It's over. Period. I won't even play AD&D anymore for a sit-down with my old buddies. Too much of a bad taste in my mouth after 15 years of playing it. The guy whose campaign I used to play in almost went as far, he still plays occasionally with his kids, but he also has a home-brew engine. Nothing seems to piss off a player more (let alone a GM...) than being told that in order to understand how something works you have to go buy another book (or two or three) from another game in order to do so correctly. I have seen and felt this as a player, as a GM, and as the person behind the cash register trying to sell a system. (Thank -insert favorite diety- that I don't do that anymore!) It doesn't work. Name a gaming company who *has* made it work and I might retract what I've said. But I can't think of one right now. And I don't see SJG as being the one to break the rule. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:26:26 CDT From: "Pepper Love" Subject: IN> Metatron. (Was Mariel/Dead Superiors thread) Oddly enough, there was an article in the National Inquirer right after the Grammys that had Carlos Santana quoted as saying that he attributed his comeback to a being named Metatron. Tee hee. What do we think about that? Jennifer - --Who works at a grocery store and only reads the tabloids when we're slow. . . >From: Elizabeth Bartley >>There's also Metatron. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:18:36 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Metatron. (Was Mariel/Dead Superiors thread) >Oddly enough, there was an article in the National Inquirer right after the >Grammys that had Carlos Santana quoted as saying that he attributed his >comeback to a being named Metatron. > >Tee hee. What do we think about that? That was also in rolling stones and another magazine, Carlos Santana is convinced that the Metatron told him to get back on the scene. Which makes me think he's suffered some perment damage from activities in the 60's. However from the IN point of view this could be very, very interesting. I'm sure some angels are going to investigate, whether by order from their Superiors or on their own iniative. Maybe the Metatron did survive and is talking to a mortal, maybe some being is claiming to be the Metatron or maybe Mr. Santana is a prophet and receives his visions through a sort of mouth piece which he equates with the Metatron. Now I'm sure Lucifer is going to be interested in the answer as well, and I like to think he has his own demons that serve him. They'd probably be the ones that are checking into the matter. Lucifer probably knows whether the Metatron is dead or not, and most likely if the Metatron has survived in some way, shape or form (even just as the representation of a prophet's visions) he'll be interested in either finishing the job or figuring out how the Metatron has returned. Could be a nifty story idea. >Jennifer > >--Who works at a grocery store and only reads the tabloids when we're slow. I read them while standing in line, they're a great source of plot ideas. Also I like using the idea from the MiB movie about how they are the only sources of actual true news. I remember someone on the list mentioned they used it once in a campeign, so I tried it, helps make for much lighter games (especially when you get actual tabloids). Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation My international broadcastingagency: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:51:25 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Metatron. (Was Mariel/Dead Superiors thread) > Return-Path: Timothy.Groth@colorado.edu > However from the IN point of view this could be very, very interesting. > I'm sure some angels are going to investigate, whether by order from their > Superiors or on their own iniative. Maybe the Metatron did survive and is > talking to a mortal, maybe some being is claiming to be the Metatron or > maybe Mr. Santana is a prophet and receives his visions through a sort of > mouth piece which he equates with the Metatron. Another possiblity is a Servator of Dreams (or Nightmares, or even an ethereal gone a bit loopy) could be taking a keen interest in the dreams of prophets, and become a prophet her/himself. Or is speaking the perceived will of god themselves. Or is stilling the prophets' dreams and is about to fall. or ... (But what do I know; I don't want to let go of a lot of the dead superiors. I have a Remenant of Legion running around in my campaign world, as well as a few Ethereal forces of Raphael bound into a living artifact.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:57:16 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: IN> Introducing myself Howdy! My formal introduction will be in the Daily Illuminator tomorrow, but I wanted to drop y'all a line now to let you know I'm here. I'm Andrew, and I'm a gamer. ("Hi, Andrew!") My title is Promotional Writer; that means that any marketing or advertising writing passes through my computer. I write most of it, and I sign off on all of it. I'm the guy who convinces your local store to order our stuff so you can buy it, and (let's be honest) I'm the guy who convinces you that our stuff is so cool that you'll go pester your store owner until he orders it so you can buy it. (Of course, since it *is*, that part of my job is easy.) What I'd like to know from you good people, however, is how I can do my job better. Where is the marketing for our games falling flat? If your local store owner doesn't stock your favorite game on a regular basis, what's the reason he gives? Conversely, what aspects of our marketing do you *like*? What catches your eye in the store, or the catalog, or Warehouse 23? I don't do the art design (though the day they need a stick figure drawing for a cover, I am so there, baby!) but I can talk with the people who do. Also, I'm not a game designer or editor, so if you hate the game mechanics, that's fine, but I'm not in a position to make changes, only suggestions. Communication is the key here. I'll probably be posting fairly often, to let you know what's coming up and to ask you to pre-order from your local store so *they* know what's coming up. (They should know anyway, but we all know how that can go.) To that end, if you could answer some simple questions for me (and please feel free to email me privately at the address below, to avoid congesting the list), it would be a BIG help. (Below, "this game" refers to the subject of this mailing list; since I'm multi-mailing, I didn't want to be too specific.) In 1 and 2, I'm specifically asking about the marketing text. 1) What ONE thing about this game are we not stressing enough (or at all)? 2) What ONE thing about this game are we stressing too much? (This could include something that *hurts* the game in your mind; we definitely want to know about that!) 3) In your opinion, what is the ONE thing that makes this game cool? 4) What else do I need to know? (This is open-ended; I want to hear ANYTHING you have to tell me.) - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1587 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.