From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Apr 26 16:55:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12644 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:55:56 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA20498 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:54:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:54:08 -0500 Message-Id: <200004262154.QAA20498@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1595 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, April 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1595 In this digest: RE: IN> Jordi's Perspective (was Animal Language's) Re: IN> DC Tethers... IN> Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact Re: IN> Jordi's Perspective (was Animal Language's) IN> Genealogy Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact (was Re: IN> Animal Language's) Re: IN> Angels of Destruction (Long) Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact IN> Question about Attunments Re: IN> Question about Attunments IN> Ka'ab, Angel of Pain [Long] Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> DC Tethers... Re: IN> Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> Souls in Hell Re: IN> In game Belief Vs Faith Re: IN> DC Tethers... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:21:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> Jordi's Perspective (was Animal Language's) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:08:53 -0500From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Jordi's Perspective (was Animal Language's) >My impressions of Jordi are as follows: >An alternate Jordi could have extended the Word of >.Animals, just as Novalis extended Flowers, and >become, say, the patron of vitality. >Angels of healing and laughter could have come to him >after being orphaned of Raphael and betrayed by >Kobal. He could have been Saminga's arch-rival. He >could give domestic animals equal time or the main >part of his attention, without giving up his >environmentalism. >But no, he's just going to sulk. >Earl You _gotta_ write this up, both in regular and extra-heretical. You've hit on something, here. Damn, wish I'd thought of it first*... Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Missed Chances *Not that I don't have three or four personal, non-official, no-hope-for-renumeration projects going on anyway... :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:52:58 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> DC Tethers... At 8:00 PM -0700 04/25/00, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >DC Tethers [. . .Snip. . .] You forgot one. Valefor's Tether at the IRS. . . (Why yes, I'm doing my D.C. Tether Research. . . Why no, not for any reason. Right Prodigal?) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:43:30 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: IN> Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact <<< The Game Master's Guide on page 18 says, under the heading of Non-Human Vessels:"Vessels can all talk, but otherwise suffer the appropriate limitations of their form(such as having no hands, or being colorblind)." (Aaron Medwin). >>> My question specificly indicated that I was aware of this (canon) rule, but that I didn't like it (I'm very sorry), so I (non-canonically) ruled otherwise IMC. <<< Dedicated Reliquary/1 (2 points) Relic (Modified Corporeal Song of Tongues) (3 points) Disturbance:0 Essence:1 Duration: CD*Ethereal Forces Won't make the character universally understandable, just makes speech clear in whatever languages the character is using. Doesn't give any ability to understand languages, either. Features: Summonable, Wearable. (John). >>> Actually, I first wanted to use it only for the panther character, in which case the Corp. Song of Tongues would be ok. But after a few thoughts, it might be very usefull to many other kinds of characters if it contained the Ethereal version of the Song. For example, I have another campaign going on where my two players are FBI agents. They could use such a transmitter to keep telepathic contact. In fact, it would make their life much easier, considering that one of them is a Kyrio... Now I wouldn't make it a reliquary. I don't want the communication to be free. Just less expensive than the Eth. Song of Tongues. Also, Summonable would be a plus that the Kyrio would pay. Wearable would be very handy, though. How much is a convenience feature? 2 points? Also, I think Jean (yes, my players are from Jean) would commonly give some of these to his Servitors, don't you think? Cheers, Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:57:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jordi's Perspective (was Animal Language's) Tim Groth wrote: > Just a single nit pick, Kobal was the angel of laughter. > Appointing a new one would probably not be a sane thing to do. I didn't mean that Jordi or any of his servitors would get the Word of Laughter; I just suggested that, just as Novalis expanded "Flowers" to include things like mercy and peace, Jordi could have expanded "Animals" to include things like liveliness and play, and so could have become the new Superior for lots of angels of Laughter left behind when Kobal fell. Maurice Lane wrote: > You _gotta_ write this up, both in regular and > extra-heretical. You've hit on something, here. I'm glad you like it. Maybe I will, but anyone else should feel free to write up Alternate Jordi first. He just doesn't draw me. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:03:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Genealogy Speaking of "firstborn" and generations of angels, who exactly created the various Superiors? I get the impression from the GMG that only a handful of angels were actually created directly by God, but it isn't entirely clear. Vapula, Haagenti, and Nybbas, for instance, were born in Hell, but who created them? Where did Novalis come from? Or Christopher? I *think* the following were direct creations of God: Yves Michael Gabriel Uriel Raphael Lucifer Baal Asmodeus But as for the rest?... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:11:46 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact (was Re: IN> Animal Language's) Aaron Medwin wrote: > The Game Master's Guide on page 18 says, under the heading of Non-Human > Vessels: > "Vessels can all talk, but otherwise suffer the appropriate limitations of > their form(such as having no hands, or being colorblind)." Eh, I'm not talking vessels, I'm talking about Possession (either Song or Resonance). Of course, that might've been off-topic. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:48:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Angels of Destruction (Long) Very nice. Is Cassiel, the Outcast Elohite of Purity, a member of the Tsayadim -- the die-hards still serving Purity? I thought those were the only Outcasts of Purity there are, since Uriel destroyed his servitors when they got too dissonant (never mind discordant) rather than cast any out. Though I suppose some could have smashed their Hearts and run away. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:58:32 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy > Return-Path: earlw@mc.com > Speaking of "firstborn" and generations of angels, who exactly > created the various Superiors? I get the impression from the > GMG that only a handful of angels were actually created directly > by God, but it isn't entirely clear. Vapula, Haagenti, and Nybbas, > for instance, were born in Hell, but who created them? Where did > Novalis come from? Or Christopher? Some of these were probably creations of other Archangels or Demon Princes, as apropriate. Others could have been created by God, or Luciefer, as needed. being a Superior is a status, and a representtion of power granted bu Lucifer or the Council, not an inherent part of being. > I *think* the following were direct creations of God: > > Yves Not to my recollection; Yves is one of the eternal mysteries, along with kronos. (I have an explaination for them both, for an alternative setting I may get around to writing up.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:18:16 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact Laurent wrote: > Actually, I first wanted to use it only for the panther character, in which case > the Corp. Song of Tongues would be ok. But after a few thoughts, it might be > very usefull to many other kinds of characters if it contained the Ethereal > version of the Song. For example, I have another campaign going on where my two > players are FBI agents. They could use such a transmitter to keep telepathic > contact. In fact, it would make their life much easier, considering that one of > them is a Kyrio... > For this scenario I'd consider creating a pair of special relics that allow the ethereal song of tongues only between the possessor of each relic. Get a summonable enchantment for the kryo if you like. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:26:52 -0400 From: "A.Hamilton" Subject: IN> Question about Attunments Okay, working on the Angel of Pain, and I've got a question about Attunements. Say the angel switches servitors, and for whatever reason is allowed to keep Servitor and Choir attunments for their old Superior, do they also keep the Dissonance conditions? For example, a Seraph of David leaves David's service. The Seraph has his Choir Attunement and both Servitor attunements. He enters the service of Janus and has managed to get David to agree to let him keep the attunements. Is he still subject to the Dissonance condition of David? Thanks. A.Hamilton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:34:03 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Question about Attunments At 12:26 PM -0400 4/26/00, A.Hamilton wrote: >Okay, working on the Angel of Pain, and I've got a question about >Attunements. Say the angel switches servitors, and for whatever reason is >allowed to keep Servitor and Choir attunments for their old Superior, do >they also keep the Dissonance conditions? > >For example, a Seraph of David leaves David's service. The Seraph has his >Choir Attunement and both Servitor attunements. He enters the service of >Janus and has managed to get David to agree to let him keep the attunements. >Is he still subject to the Dissonance condition of David? No. He is only bound to the Dissonance condition of his own Superior. I think Lilith can be an exception, but if so she's it. (And that may only apply to Frees, for that matter.) I see this as the Servitor's personal symphony being in frequency with his Superior's. He resonates (no pun intended) with the basic theme of his Superior's Word. He may be attuned to specific bits of the Symphony that aren't from his Superior (attunements and rites from another Superior) but his underlying theme is the same, even if he's been modulated from another Theme at some point. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:32:39 -0400 From: "A.Hamilton" Subject: IN> Ka'ab, Angel of Pain [Long] List, Okay, here's my write-up of the Angel of Pain as a Word-Bound. It's a bit long, perhaps six pages or thereabouts in MS Works. I'm sure there are a few things that could be improved, for example I only have the Main Book, so none of the songs from the LC, and I don't know anything about some of the other Superiors (Khalid, Christopher, Zadkiel(?)). Anyway, I also realize this may be a bit off from Canon due to the way I've made use of Eli. Any comments or critiques are more than welcome. So here goes. Ka’ab Angel of Pain Elohite of Creation in Service to Destiny Master of Divine Knowledge Corporeal Forces - 6 Strength:12 Agility: 12 Ethereal Forces - 6 Intelligence: 12 Precision: 12 Celestial Forces -6 Will: 12 Perception: 12 Songs: Attraction (Ethereal 6/Celestial 4), Charm (Corporeal 5/Ethereal 4/ Celestial 4), Dreams (Celestial 5), Entropy (Corporeal 5/Ethereal 5/Celestial 6), Harmony (Corporeal 2/Ethereal 5/ Celestial 6), Healing (6/6/6). Light (Ethereal 4), Possession (5), Shields (Corporeal 4/Ethereal 4/Celestial 6), Tongues (Corporeal 6/Celestial 5). Attunements: All of Yves Attunements. Divine Destiny, Devine Logic, Elohim of Creation, Elohim of Flowers, Abracadabra, Transsubstination, Elohim of Fire, Smite, Crown of Joy, Nothing But Flowers, Distinctions: Mater of Divine Knowledge, Master of Peace, Master of the Light Vows: “I will not suffer an evil to live, if it is my choice.” “I will never surrender to the forces of Lucifer or allow myself to be captured.” “I will inflict pain, only for the greater good.” “I will seek to redeem any Demon before destroying them.” History Ka’ab was created as Kariel, an Elohite in service to Novalis. Born before the Fall, Ka’ab is incredibly ancient. While few of the Elohim could be considered truly light-hearted, Kariel came about as close to it as any of that choir could. Her (since having earth duties, she’s come to think of herself as female, or having feminine qualities) duties mostly entailed singing in the center of the Glade where Novalis holds court and parties. A pleasant life, made even more so by her lovers; Aaron, a Seraph of Yves and Zur an Elohite of David The triad was a bit unusual, but their love for one another was true, if somewhat muted by some standards, and they spent many days and hours together when not tending directly to their duties. Zur was the original Angel of Pain, a word of small consequence at the time. Often referring to when an angel was careless and caused themselves injury, it was Zur’s job to see they learned the lesson and took instruction from the pain. But it all changed horribly the day the Son of Perdition led a full third of Heaven to Fall. That day, Kariel was busy in a secluded part of the Glade, arranging a quiet picnic for the lovers of her heart. Singing softly to herself she was jarred when the Rebellion began and she heard the clashing, discordant notes of the battle beginning to wage. She went immediately to the nearest source of the strange noise. For never had such a thing been heard before. When her eyes finally found a battle she stood there in shock for several moments, disbelieving. But her nature being what it is, she realized she had little time to stand about and gawk. While she had no Songs or Attunements useful for combat, she knew songs of Healing and Protection and began to use those on the wounded and injured. While tending to the wounded, fighting back the pain and hurt that raged within her she looked up and saw a sight that nearly shattered her calm balance. Zur and Aaron were engaged in immortal conflict. Zur had changed .. it was disfigured and grinning wickedly as it slayed Aaron. And with a smile on its lips, it turned to its remaining lover. It could sense the Pain it had caused. The pain that Kariel was fighting to hold down lest she become like the thing that had once held her heart. Zur moved, to strike her down in her confusion and struggle. Were it not for the arrival of David, she would have perished at the hand of her former lover. Zur..it wound up in Hell with the other Fallen, taking the Word of Cruelty and the name of Javan. Kariel was on the verge of falling herself. She fled to the Glade after David’s rescued her hiding amongst the flowers and plants and trying to find her center once more. As Christ would reportedly cry out thousands of years later when hanging upon the cross, she to cried out. Singing in her haunting voice, merely tinged with emotion, she sang a lament. The words; ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’. My God, My God, why hast though forsaken me? How long she sat there, knees pulled up to her chest and head hung low, crying out for understanding and teetering on the verge of falling only she knows for sure. Novalis heard her cries sometime later and went to comfort her. But Yves appeared to her, stopping her in his ineffable manner. “She will not Fall. Fear not, the Father will comfort her and make her stronger.” Trusting Yves, though it pained her greatly to do so, Novalis left young Kariel be. When next she was seen, Kariel came before the Seraphim Council and asked once more to be given the Word of Pain. Eloquent and reasoned, she explained to them all what had happened that day. In a dispassionate voice that bespoke of the anguish that had nearly consumed her by the very absence of emotion, she explained. She explained that she knew the dangers of Pain, and the glory it could bring as well. For her own pain and brought her closer in resonance with her purpose and with the Almighty. When she finished she sat and she was the only angel not crying. Even other Elohim cried. Kariel was granted the Word, and began to call herself Ka’ab. That is, ‘bringer of pain’. She remained a servitor of Novalis, carrying out her duties with the love and nurturing that only a servitor of Flowers could muster. Most of her work was in Heaven, to show the other angels who suffered how to use the pain to grow closer to God. She was busy and other servants of Flowers assist her. Time passed, and Ka’ab came to realize it was time for her word to change. To grow. She knew that not only would she continue to use pain to nurture, but she had the responsibility to inflict pain to see people grow. She prayed and sang out to the Most High, asking his guidance and seeking answers from her resonance with the symphony. The task frightened her. She knew that she would be walking a tightrope over the Abyss. A misstep could send her spiraling to the Abyss to join her former lover. Again, as Christ would do thousands of years later in the garden of Gethsemane, she set aside her own desires and emotions and did as the Father had bidden. She went to Novalis. “Mother, we must talk.” Ka’ab glanced to the ground, the revelry around her seeming oddly fitting. “And it will hurt, what I must say and ask.” Novalis looked surprised. But instantly put her arm around her Servitors shoulders. “Whatever it is Kay?” She had called her Kay since she had been created, and had no intention of changing that. “It can’t be all that bad.” “Mother, I must ask for release from your service. My Word is changing. And though I hate it, I will be responsible for bloodshed and death.” Ka’ab’s words were a silent whisper that only Novalis could here. The Archangel of Flowers wrapped the Elohite into her arms, hugging her tightly as any mother word. She knew her Servitor feared Falling, and if she stayed in service to Flowers that would be inevitable. Brushing a hand over the smooth scalp of Ka’ab, she finally spoke. “My daughter, I will grant the request. But there are conditions. Yves must be your new Superior. And no matter what, you have to come visit with me.” Ka’ab smiled at her Mother and returned the hug. “If Yves will have me, then it is his service I will enter into it.” So Novalis took Ka’ab’s hand and the two took a walk toward Yves’ library. It would hurt to give up a faithful servitor with a powerful word. But more than many other Archangels, Novalis understood that it was what was best for her Servitor and for the Symphony at large. She brought Ka’ab to the Archangel of Destiny. They explained the situation to a softly smiling Yves. He nodded his agreement. And then did something even more unexpected; he granted Ka’ab a distinction. Ka’ab was immediately given the Friend of the Sages distinction. This surprised her, but she did not question it. Ka’ab spent the next few millennia under the service of Yves, distinguishing herself for her service. Particularly in the case of Job. A tragic tale that to this day still gives those in pain inspiration to turn to the Creator of the Symphony when thing seems darkest. Eventually, she was given the Master of Divine Knowledge distinction and chose the Malakim Resonance. She often has worked with other Superiors; Gabriel and David most often. She continued to work closely with Novalis, the Archangel of Flowers helping to keep her centered and remind her that she does her work for love. On occasion she has worked with Janus, but none of the other War faction members (Michael or Laurence). And things changed again. Yves came to her and informed her she was being transferred to the Service of Eli. Her Word would be serving a crucial part of a plan that Yves and Eli and Gabriel work working on. A new religion was to be introduced. One who’s very foundation was pain, undeserved pain suffered and endured for the good of others. Ka’ab set about her task with the dedication she had shown ever since her taking on the Word of Pain. While serving under Eli, she helped create the early Christian church and saw its adherents grow strong from the pain they had to endure. Saw them become more passionate and loving as each pile of hot coals was heaped upon them. Things didn’t turn out quite as planned. In the long years since, the religion was twisted by humans and Infernals alike, and straightened out again and again by Ka’ab and sometimes Eli, though usually staying with the less formal branches and sects. Ka’ab grew to lover her service under Eli, enjoying it nearly as much as the bygone times when she was a simple angel in service to Novalis. As for Eli? Well, he’d often call her Ka’ab ‘My sad little bunny.’ and ruffle her hair slightly. In fact, she’s one of the few that still runs into Eli regularly. His enjoyment of life often serves to keep her grounded. Since Eli left, she’s nominally returned to Yves’ service. For this reason she has all of his Attunements. But the truth of the matter is, Ka’ab is as close to being a free-agent as a non-Archangel can be. Yves’ interferes rarely, allowing her to set her goals and go after them. The truth is, he and Eli and Novalis are grooming her for Archangelship. To that end, they’ve given her more freedom and even greater responsibilities, to see how she deals with the burden. Outlook Ka’ab is not an angel who enjoys her work. The truth be told, she hates it. She wishes with all her angelic heart that she could pass the cup from her lips. But she knows she has to drink. It is her very hatred of her word, her desire to see an end to its necessity that makes her the ideal candidate to promote Pain. To Ka’ab, Pain is a tool that can be used by the divine to bring humans and celestials toward greater heights of selflessness and closer to God. She prefers to take existing pain and use that to mold and strengthen humanity and angels alike toward their Destiny. But as the world slides further toward the Pit, she realizes she must inflict pain on others. Sometimes seemingly random pain. From the sudden death of a child in a horrible accident, to the loss of a favored trinket and all the heartaches in between. She is a serious, somber and quiet individual. She prefers to work in a subtle fashion, with complex plots and schemes. Her favorite tactic is to work large plans that involve several people, all touched by some tragedy great or small. As their pain and grief grows they come to find one another. And in the process grow closer, give to one another and help the healing begin. The idea is that not only do they come from the experience having learned that God is there for them, but that their fellow humans are as well. Her ‘victims’ often wind up becoming champions for others in quiet ways. The people who have suffered drug addiction and now help others break the chains of that addiction. Her voice is beautiful, even by celestial standards. But the songs she sings are often like ‘Brown Eyed Girl’, songs that are seemingly upbeat and peppy, but have words that speak of pain and loss and learning to deal with those difficulties. The reason she choose to pursue the Word of Pain boils down to her time of testing in the garden. It was during that time that God himself came to her. He showed her that he too felt the pain she was feeling. Lucifer had lost the battle, but had won a small victory. He’d broken the heart of God and brought pain throughout Heaven. But he also showed her that from this pain victory could be snatched. Had those who truly loved the Lord not stood up and fought? Had she herself not turned to him when things were darkest? So she goes about her task, inflicting pain and then instructing those who suffer in how to alleviate the pain; by giving of oneself and relying on the Divine. On the subject of Demons and the War, she feels all is going as planned. Perhaps as a leftover from her service to Novalis, she seeks to redeem Fallen Angels not simply destroy them. Though the Pain she can put them through is often severe and seemingly vicious, when she finds a Demon with the desire or potential to Redeem, she’ll keep pushing until the Infernal is in so much pain that the only answer is to Redeem. Servitors Ka’ab worries over her servitors. It is a difficult job dispensing pain and save for a few other Word-bound who work under her, she tends to rotate servitors so they don’t burn out. It’s not unusual for other Archangels to loan servitors to Ka’ab for a short period, to let them learn some of the harsher lessons. David, Yves, Eli, Novalis and Gabriel are the most frequent contributors to these rotating troops, with the occasional contribution from Blandine or Janus. Relations While not an Archangel, Ka’ab is on the verge of becoming one. For the last century she has been free to act as the demands of her word dictate, and in the process has become somewhat independent and developed opinions about the various Superiors. And of course, the Angel of Pain has a reputation all her on. Most of the Angels and souls in Heaven view her with a mix of confusion and fear and respect. She’s old. One of the first generation of Angels, those pre-Fall celestials who has managed to survive and prosper. Fear comes from that. Though she rarely displays it, she has great power at her command. She even has unique Songs she has created or discovered within the Symphony. Respect for the fact that she has walked the tightrope demanded by her Word for so long and avoided falling. And finally a bit of confusion that she has bounced around from one Superior to another. Many are aware that someday they may have to serve this powerful Word-bound for a time. And quite a few dread it. Listed below are Ka’ab’s thoughts on the various superiors. Blandine: Poor Blandine, she knows the pain of a lover lost to the selfish. Yet she has taken that pain and continued on, giving humans bright dreams. Sometimes that is all it takes for a human to understand the Divine better and take the pain and turn it to selfless love. David: Mmm..David. Violent and swift and sure, my savior on that day long ago, though his hostility with mother is well known. He understands though, as do I, that hardship breeds character and pain makes love that much more precocious. Dominic: He knows pain, and how to inflict it. That punishment can instruct and purge the darkness from us. A pity his zealousness has blinded him to the beauty around him. Eli: My friend and my Superior. He too knows pain, the pain of rejection from those he sought to rescue from the Pit. The pain of his peers refusing to trust him. Yet still he goes on and enjoys life. An example for us all. Gabriel: Fire burns, punishing the wicked and cleansing the righteous. But too much pain has made her flames burn cold. Instead of judging, the other Archangels should comfort her, help her return to bright light of inspirations he once was. Perhaps I may someday help in that task. Janus: Change brings pain and pain bring change. My word has no conflict with his, but I think he is to often ignorant of the consequences of the chaos he spreads. He plays his part though, and helps me to play mine. Jean: Of my Choir, yet I know him little at all. Much of his work is to make life easier for humans. Perhaps he believes that without pain they would be free to seek the selflessness in their nature. I fear he is wrong about that. Jordi: Archangel of Beasts, and yet he has more sense then many of the rest of the Council. He to knows pain, from having his domain hurt and harmed and ignored by the others. Or callously used. And he rises above, never giving in to the great Tempter. He remains steadfast. Laurence: Another who knows how to leaven out pain. But he does so without thought as to where the pain will lead. Rash and to often dependent on Michael to rescue him. He has much learning to do. I pray I do not have to be the one to teach him the hard way. Marc: Michael: Arrogant and cocksure. He’s let the pain of Dominic’s accusations and the mistakes of the others fester. He should learn from it, or he may find himself chasing after the Morningstar the hard way. Novalis: Mother. Yves: A kindly grandfather, but even I wonder what he really is and how much he really knows. He has yet to let me down and proven himself above the pettiness of the others. We would do well to follow his example. Special Rites: Inflicting pain that results in the subject acting unselfishly. 1-3 Essence (GM’s discretion). Attending a funeral where the family and friends genuinely grieves for the lost human. 1 Essence. A.Hamilton: ahamilton@tntie.com Personal Page: http://www.tntie.com/ahamilton/index.html "It's an ugly sight isn't it? Lunatics and Whore's" Cupid. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:40:57 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy Nybbas was created by Vapula. Haagenti was once a demonling, which brings up an interesting question: where do demonlings come from? there was some talk before about demonlings being spontaneously generated by Hell itself. personally, I like the idea that the demonlings are free-floating forces tainted by Hell. as for who created Vapula...?? Valefor may have been created by Genubath (providing you don't make him and Janus one being like I did IMG). - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 http://evm-gamers.freeservers.com "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:27:11 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) At 15:23 -0400 4/25/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >The term "Firstborn" is a title Angels use when describing Michael, >IMC. It's an honorific and a way to refer to him in the third person. >I haven't got a good term for pre-fall Angels. I wonder what the >Latin for "Falling" is.... I use the Perseus database (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/) which has, among other things, Greek<->English and Latin<->English databases (look under "Search Tools"). The Perseus dictionary lookup turned up 295 Latin words that included "fall" in their definitions. A lot of these aren't relevant, of course, but there are probably a dozen or so words that would work well. Ones I like include "descendo" (from which "descend" comes in English), and "jaceo" (from which "eject" comes in English). "Jaceo" is especially good since it includes connotations of being cast out or away, which is true of the First-Fallen. "Cado", which someone else turned up, is also a good choice. The normal Latin phrase for "sunset" uses that, so it has nice connotations, also, and it also is used for people falling from a height, from some of the samples given. I'd have to go grub around the Perseus online Latin grammar to get the correct form for "Fallen" for any of these, though, and I don't have time for that right now.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:42:34 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> DC Tethers... At 23:00 -0400 4/25/00, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >Canonically, there are a lot of tethers in and around Washington, D.C. >Twelve, at my count. While I guess we all expect a lot of tethers around a >capitol, it seems like this is a lot... Any suggestions on what kind of >celestial atmosphere this would create in DC? Would there be overt war? Some >kind of truce? Given the heavy presence of humans with power, intelligence people, and news crews, I'd expect the War in DC to be *very* covert. You don't want a Congressional investigation into celestial activities! I doubt there'd be a truce there, but rather a lot of complicated long-term plots, mixed in with short-term subversions (don't forget all the scandals in DC...). Probably not a lot of shooting or property destruction -- there are a lot of humans with heavy weapons in the near vicinity, and they'd turn up quickly for anything that happened anywhere near actual government buildings. > Especially as it is likely there are a lot of demons of >factions inside the beltway, even if they don't have a canonical tether. Very likely, though they can often do a lot more good "back home", stirring up Congresscritters' constituencies. > Do >you all think this list is too large? Too small? Just right? I think it's roughly right -- the population in the vicinity is high, a lot of significant things have happened in the area, and its a good place to assert leverage on humans. On the other hand, the Other Side will be doing the same thing, so most likely it's more or less a stalemate. > I think the >nation's capitol is an interesting place to run a game, but the sheer number >of tethers is daunting and I'd like some advice on how they would affect it. Plenty of support around, if you need it. On the other hand, there will be lots of high-powered little-s superiors there, who will probably be more than happy to give orders to anyone who shows up, since there's *far* too much work to do in a place like that. And anyone who causes a lot of killings or visible destruction will probably get reamed by the local Seneschals, who won't want the humans poking into things too closely. DC is one of the few places you find concentrations of humans with as much (or more) power as the typical celestial -- never underestimate someone who can call out the National Guard in a few minutes... or sic a dozen BATF, IRS, or Secret Service agents on you. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:50:31 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Ethereal Song of Tongues artifact At 5:43 -0400 4/26/00, Laurent wrote: >Now I wouldn't make it a reliquary. I don't want the communication to be free. >Just less expensive than the Eth. Song of Tongues. Also, Summonable would be a >plus that the Kyrio would pay. Wearable would be very handy, though. How much is >a convenience feature? 2 points? Also, I think Jean (yes, my players are from >Jean) would commonly give some of these to his Servitors, don't you think? Actually, I think Jean would be much more likely to give them a (mostly) mundane item -- the latest (human tech) in encrypted, spread-spectrum, earpiece communicators (like you often see the President's guards wearing). Make the Kyrio's a Summonable Corporeal Artifact, so it can transfer it to its current host; the other one can be completely mundane. Remember, Jean doesn't like celestial tech getting loose. If a perfectly mundane (if rather cutting-edge) device will do, why risk an artifact? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:53:53 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy At 11:03 -0400 4/26/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I *think* the following were direct creations of God: > >Yves >Michael >Gabriel >Uriel >Raphael > >Lucifer >Baal >Asmodeus That's the way I've read the history. I'd quibble about Yves, though. I tend to think of him as more of a limited *manifestation* of God than a creation of His. Though you can argue, via the "God=Symphony" bit, that *everything* is a manifestation of God. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:26:40 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: Re: IN> Souls in Hell >Sean McCarthy wrote: > >> Now here's a sticky set of questions. Why are human souls going >> to Hell? When did they start going to Hell? Where did the souls >> of the humans at the same time as the Eden experiment go? >> In canon you go to Heaven once you achieve your destiny and Hell once you meet your fate (Corporeal Player's Guide - phenomenal supplement by this way, IMO the BEST In Nomine book yet!). Is it possible that before the Fall there was some sort of fate/destiny system, just one administered by the angels, that the demons took over the fate side of once they Fell? It might help explain the angels of judgement at the gates of Hell, hangovers from before the Fall. Also this raises the question of whether the Fall itself wrenched humanity into two paths, just as it split the Celestials into two. Christopher Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:32:44 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: Re: IN> In game Belief Vs Faith > >But vast numbers of everyday mundanes in the real world believe >they HAVE received interventions, or the real-world equivalents. >Few involved celestial voices or shining forms, but there are >even a few of those. > >Earl Fair point Earl! What I was really getting at was that the game mechanic is for flashy interventions: "An Intervention's effects will be overtly supernatural in nature...they must be spectacular" (In Nomine p.40). So what I meant was that the in game results of D666 rolls ought NOT to take into account the atheism of any character PC or NPC. I don't seem to have made myself clear! But as for everyday non D666 interventions I am entirely open to any interpretation, God (as we all know) moves in mysterious ways and presumably Lucifer's motives and actions can be pretty inscrutable too! Thanks to Earl and David for clarifying my sloppy rantings... Sorry about the quoting, it's the historian in me! Christopher Lee > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:57:07 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: Re: IN> DC Tethers... Robert wrote, >Canonically, there are a lot of tethers in and around Washington, D.C. >Twelve, at my count. While I guess we all expect a lot of tethers around a >capitol, it seems like this is a lot... Is there any reason why this is a lot? Is there some rule of thumb about the number of tethers there ought to be in a locality? Is it linked to the local human population? For example might we expect one per million people? Personally I think that the presence of tethers is more down to random factors, since tethers are formed essentially by random elements of emotion, human actions, concentrations of resonances, etc. So the size of the local human population will have a bearing as the more people there are the more likely these factors are to concentrate in the right patterns, but this is not a prerequisite. I would imagine that the number of tethers in Washington D.C. is by no means excessive for the size of the city and the concentration of elements that exist there (a city of this importance will have more opportunity to form the concentrations necessary - take Valefor and the IRS for example, probably a tether, and in D.C because of the nature of the place). In fact it is likely that D.C has fewer tethers than say London, because London is older and larger and most tethers formed there should persist as long as the basis for the tether retains any relevance. What about a city like Rome? I want to have around 7 tethers in my In Nomine city, which has around 750,000 people and is about 1200 years old. Any comments? Christopher Lee ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1595 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.