From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 27 15:45:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07977 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:45:10 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA22338 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:43:30 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:43:30 -0500 Message-Id: <200004272043.PAA22338@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1597 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1597 In this digest: Re: IN> Angel of Pain? Re: IN> Angel of Pain Writeup? Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Question about Attunments Re: IN> DC Tethers... Re: IN> Suggestions for adjucating Ethereals... Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Suggestions for adjucating Ethereals... Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Question about Attunments Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> Question about Attunments Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Genealogy & Grigori Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Genealogy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:18:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Pain? At 7:06 PM -0400 4/25/00, A.Hamilton wrote: >[...] so I'm going to steal a page >from AA Beth's playbook and cut and paste in one big reply. >The inspiration for this had to do with undeserved pain, >basicaly CS Lewis asking why do bad things happen to good people. His >conclusion was that just as fire is used to remove impurities from gold (An >argument for Gabriel there), so pain is used to make us closer to God, to >turn to him and seek his comfort. Hee hee hee. One _short_ step to Habbie, oh yes. Portraying this one is going to be probably a little tricky, hopefully make the players look cross-eyed at Habbalah now (what if they ... _are_ ... doing the work of God as they claim?? And has anyone seen this Word-bound in celestial form lately?), and likely very interesting. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:25:57 +1000 From: Brent McCartney Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Pain Writeup? Thanks mate, i just realised that you had done it after I sent the message Brent Demon of Not Paying Att........What? At 10:44 PM 26/04/00 -0400, you wrote: > >I forgot who did the original post about the Angel of Pain but would it be > >possible to post a complete writeup on the angel cause I definitely like > >Laurent's idea for the campaign seeds and want to see if I can get a group > >together to play this one through. > > > >Any help would be appreciated > >*Grin* Done. I sent the complete writeup to the list about..oh about 5 >hours ago. Look for the title: >Ka'ab, Angel of Pain (Long). > >OF course that's my 'first draft' of the angel. And the firs time I've >tried my hand at making powerful NPC for the IN game so criticism would be >/really/ appreciated. Oh, and I'd love to know what changes you make for >your campaign and how things go. > > > > >Brent > > >A.Hamilton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:14:52 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's > Nope -- only the Kyriotates get the extra bennie of being able to > do insects. (Other Choirs might be able to get a bug vessel from > Jordi, mind. If they served him, that is. But that's not really an > attunement.) Hrrrmph!! Well, I may just have to take up Earls gauntlet for a rewrite of Jordi now Over the past couple of days as I've looked at Jordi I think that he's a bit underpowered and that his choir attunments are way to limiting... He also seems a little off for IN and perhaps a little closer to whatever he was in the French version. (I'm allowed my opinions, heck *some* people even solicit them. Everyone else must suffer) If anything he and his servitors seem a little mamby-pamby for one of the argueably more powerful Words. If anyone has any seeds that they want to throw me for a Jordi re-write then send them along but other wise look for it semi-soon (so many things, so little time). BTW: I was wasn't really looking for a ruling on the Virtuoso comment per se, I was more interested if anyone though it was a possibility. With the Song of Beasts in evidence I am inclined to say no... David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:47:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about Attunments At 12:26 PM -0400 4/26/00, A.Hamilton wrote: >Okay, working on the Angel of Pain, and I've got a question about >Attunements. Say the angel switches servitors, and for whatever reason is >allowed to keep Servitor and Choir attunments for their old Superior, do >they also keep the Dissonance conditions? No -- they have only the dissonance conditions of the Word they currently serve. The "holder of their Heart" to put it poetically. This is one reason why even Archangels are very careful about either giving away their attunements or allowing a Servitor to retain them after a transfer. Basically, they want to be sure that the Servitor will continue to use them in a way that benefits their Word, even under another's direction. See the GMG for more detail about why this is important. >For example, a Seraph of David leaves David's service. The Seraph has his >Choir Attunement and both Servitor attunements. He enters the service of >Janus and has managed to get David to agree to let him keep the attunements. >Is he still subject to the Dissonance condition of David? Nope. Note, however, that if he had also had the Cherub of Stone attunement, he would have simply lost that when he transferred to the service of the Wind -- once his connection to Stone was severed, he could only resonate with the Seraphic themes of Stone, not all Choir (*) themes. (* except restricted ones, of course) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:02:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> DC Tethers... At 8:00 PM -0700 4/25/00, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: > While I guess we all expect a lot of tethers around a >capitol, it seems like this is a lot... It is -- celestials _pounce_ upon Tethers in places of political influence. I mean, if you have to bus in Malakim to deal with demons taking over all the politicians... It's just ignomenious. >Any suggestions on what kind of >celestial atmosphere this would create in DC? Would there be overt war? Some >kind of truce? I suspect it would create a distinct cold war admosphere -- where everyone is trying to get the advantage over the other side, but no one dares make it overt because the collateral damage and fallout would be _horrendous_. And Politics Makes Strange Bedfellows. Just because someone's a demon, doesn't mean you should kill him if he's aiding _your_ goals... A good example of a lot of Tethers is the Fiat game. It's set in the DC area, you see... homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html It does mean that _major_ operations are more likely to get manpower, but minor operations are less likely to get more assignments -- there aren't an infinite number of angels (or demons) who can be trusted in the corpreal realm, and a lot of them are already busy. Another effect is that if someone is being chased by minions of the Other Side, they tend to head for their Tether or at least call in to report what's up -- Tether numbers are frequently on people's cellphone speed-dialers. This makes it harder to try to replace someone covertly, or even take 'em out without someone finding out quickly. Not impossible, but a bit harder. Also, when people _really_ need to talk to their Superiors, well... Which can have the effect of _more_ Superior action in the vicinity. (The group who has a slight advantage in Tether percentages may well _deliberately_ show up to make Big Bongs in the Symphony in the hopes of disrupting forming Tethers to the opposite side.) When someone makes Symphonic disturbance, the location quickly crawls (or flies, or buzzes) with celestials. Which could be a neat trick, you see -- set up a spy-camera and make a *bong* and then scram. Film who shows up poking around. Have your Cherub/Djinn (probably in animal vessel) attune to their clothes/them. Or have your Kyriotate of Lightning use the Song of Attraction and then drop the clothing-host for the one watching through the camera fifty miles away. ("What was that disturbance??" "It came from your boxers, man..." "I'll rip 'em up!" Kyrio, miles away now: "Hee hee hee!") There's still a chance for deep cover agents who are set in place to keep an eye on humans and _only_ report if they should see demonic activity, not react. They don't have Tether phone numbers on their speed-dialer unless it fits _very_ well with their Role, but will have appropriate numbers memorized. Outsiders may not be informed that these people are celestial -- even other celestials who serve the same Word! At best,they might get a "There are some sleeper agents in town. Don't look for them. If you think you've spotted one, call the Tether for confirmation so that you don't interfere with their jobs..." That's about all I can think of at the moment... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:33:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions for adjucating Ethereals... At 9:56 PM -0500 4/26/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >> > Canonically, Ethereals are a lot less powerful today than they once >> > were. What gives? Sure, a much smaller percentage of the population >> > worships Ethereal gods, but is the Essence gods (and archangels, for >> > that matter) recieve based on a proportion? Otherwise, Ethereal Gods >> > should be more powerful now than they ever were. > >It's not a simple mathematical equation. More worshippers does help, but >the power of a god (or a celestial Word) won't necessarily increase at >the same geometric curve as a population increase. Not to mention that there's a difference in "belief Essence," if you will, and the Essence given directly to an ethereal god via Worship Rites. (Which are basically akin to Celestial Tongues with the message of, "You go, god!" But naturally not a Song because mundanes use it.) How many of these new worshippers know the right worship rites to send Essence directly? Probably not as many as the ethereal gods would like, if more than the celestials would prefer... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:54:19 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's David Rodemaker wrote: > Over the past couple of days as I've looked at > Jordi I think that he's a bit underpowered and that his choir attunments are > way to limiting... You know... I think I'd be inclined to disagree. I think it's fairly easy to underestimate the "cause no dissonance in animal form" ability of those sneaky Jordinians. Especially given that it's almost certainly not common knowledge in Hell (or even in Heaven!) that this is the case. (malakim especially could make interesting use of this. Remember, an celestial's physical stats are unaffected by its physical form. Although my GM has ruled in favour of leverage when it comes to my butterfly vessel. sigh. No throwing hammers for me...) And I hardly need to emphasize the unbelievable power of Jordi's Kyriotates (who can, at 9 Forces, 4 Corporeal, control a good half-dozen fully grown tigers at any given time, plus a few extra pigeons, swarms of locusts, etc.) I do think his Servitor attunements are less than interesting (or I recall thinking that when I last read over his entry...), but the expanded writeup in Superiors #whatever should take care of that. Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:52:19 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Suggestions for adjucating Ethereals... According to canon (the GMG), the pantheistic/monistic natures of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Taoism mean that these faiths generate Essence that flows to Heaven. Of the lot, only Hinduism generates gods or sends any portion of Essence to those gods. But then, the Hindu gods are all supposed to be aspects of the One anyway. Uriel never got around to confronting the Hindu pantheon (some said he didn't think he could take them on), and nowadays the Hindu gods studiously ignore the celestials, who studiously ignore them. Celestial figures tend to crowd out Ethereal ones, also, according to the GMG, so there are no canonical Ethreal versions of God, Jesus, Mary, Archangels, Mohammad, Siddharta, Lao Tze, etc. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:24:16 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's From: "Ryan Elias" > > Although > my GM has ruled in favour of leverage when it comes to my butterfly > vessel. sigh. No throwing hammers for me...) How about causing a hurricane in China by flapping your wings? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:40:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy Here are my own guesses as to who created whom, among the Superiors. The GMG lists the first angels created by God, so, running on in-head memory, that's who I list here. For the others, I just guess. Sometimes, someone is said to be an ex-servitor of someone else, and I often assume that they were created by that Superior. Characters marked with a "+" are dead or otherwise out of the picture (in the Upper Heavens, Outcast, entombed somewhere, whatever). Earl Blandine - Gabriel? Lucifer? Eli? Christopher - David? David - Eli? Dominic - Uriel? Eli - God Gabriel - God Janus - Eli? Jean - Eli? Jordi - Eli? Khalid - Uriel? Laurence - Uriel? Litheroy - Raphael? Marc - Dominic?? Michael - God Novalis - Eli? +Oannes - Eli? +Raphael - God +Uriel - God Yves - God Zadkiel - David?? +Archangel of Song (Outcast Grigori) - Raphael? +Archangel of Death (incognito) - Eli? Alaemon - Raphael? Andrealphus - Eli? Asmodeus - God Baal - God Beelzebub - Lucifer? Beleth - Gabriel? Lucifer? Eli? Belial - Gabriel? Fleurity - Belial? Furfur - Belial? +Gebeleth - Raphael? +Genubath - Janus? Haagenti - Belial? Kobal - Eli? Gabriel? Kronos - Yves?? +Legion - Beelzebub? Lilith - God Lucifer - God +Magog - David? +Makatiel - Novalis? Jordi? +Mariel - Janus? Raphael? +Meserach - Eli? Nybbas - Vapula? Saminga - Uriel? Gabriel? Valefor - Marc? Vapula - Baal? Vephar - Oannes? ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:42:52 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) On Thu, 27 April 2000, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Genevieve is all knowing. She is the Fount from which good things > spring. And somehow, if you put her, Em and Beth into the same room, > Neil Gaiman appears and starts doing deep level Triple Goddess > imagry. But then, Neil Gaiman's been known to spontaneously evoke > deep level Triple Goddess imagry while at a Maple Leafs game. I've been watching too much anime, because I immediately thought of Ah! My Goddess. Beth is obviously Belldandy, Em is Skuld and therefore Maya is sexy big sister Urd. > Clearly, I didn't get enough sleep last night. I got enough sleep last night and I'm -still- wyrd. ;) - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:42:52 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) On Thu, 27 April 2000, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Genevieve is all knowing. She is the Fount from which good things > spring. And somehow, if you put her, Em and Beth into the same room, > Neil Gaiman appears and starts doing deep level Triple Goddess > imagry. But then, Neil Gaiman's been known to spontaneously evoke > deep level Triple Goddess imagry while at a Maple Leafs game. I've been watching too much anime, because I immediately thought of Ah! My Goddess. Beth is obviously Belldandy, Em is Skuld and therefore Maya is sexy big sister Urd. > Clearly, I didn't get enough sleep last night. I got enough sleep last night and I'm -still- wyrd. ;) - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:53:11 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's On Thu, 27 April 2000, "David Rodemaker" wrote: > Well, I may just have to take up Earls gauntlet for a rewrite of Jordi now > Over the past couple of days as I've looked at Hitherby did a bang-up Jordi expansion a few years back that I printed out and use in my games. Alas, I don't have the URL, but I think it can be found by dilligent tracking. Maya probably has it bookmarked. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:59:59 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's On Thu, 27 April 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Nope -- only the Kyriotates get the extra bennie of being able to > do insects. (Other Choirs might be able to get a bug vessel from > Jordi, mind. If they served him, that is. But that's not really an > attunement.) What about Elohim of Animals, whose Resonance is line-of-sight? I think the Servitor Attunments of Animals need to be beefed up a bit. Which is why, in my game, Servitors of Animals get a free animals vessel approriate to their choir (Kyrios excepted) of a level equal to their Corporeal Forces. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:15:08 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) > >To be pernickety -- not quite. That is the active form of the verb, so you >are saying, "the angel has fallen" or "the angel fell" which isn't quite the >same as "the angel who has fallen" -- for that you'd probably use the past >participle, which just happens to be, yes, casus, meaning "having fallen" or >"in a state of having fallen". > >So we return to your previous "angelus casus". > >Genevieve > Genevieve, Thanks for picking me up! I was doing this late at night with little in the way of reference. You are quite right. I was just throwing these into the ring as ideas. Does anyone know any Greek? Sadly I am an ancient historian who was too slack to take on both Greek and Latin. I always thought Greek had a nice ring to it that might suit this sort of thing. Chris Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) > > Genevieve is all knowing. She is the Fount from which good things > > spring. And somehow, if you put her, Em and Beth into the same room, > > Neil Gaiman appears and starts doing deep level Triple Goddess > > imagry. But then, Neil Gaiman's been known to spontaneously evoke > > deep level Triple Goddess imagry while at a Maple Leafs game. > > I've been watching too much anime, because I immediately thought of Ah! My Goddess. Beth is obviously Belldandy, Em is Skuld and therefore Maya is sexy big sister Urd. Um, what? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emily K. Dresner -- Writer, Musician, Hacker, Maniac Client Code Monkey, SelectPlay -- http://www.selectplay.com/ Mook, Guardians of Order, BESM -- http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca/ Pyramid Columnist, "Women in Gaming" -- http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/ Freelancer, In Nomine -- http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ Donut Hole, No Donut -- http://www.pave-france.org/nodonut/ Eric says "In the next installment of the movie series, Batman faces his toughest challenge yet, as a street gang of Hasidim start raiding Gotham City's libraries, searching for texts at the behest of their criminal overlord, the mysterious Gefilte." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:27:05 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) > > > Genevieve is all knowing. She is the Fount from which good things > > > spring. And somehow, if you put her, Em and Beth into the same room, > > > Neil Gaiman appears and starts doing deep level Triple Goddess > > > imagry. But then, Neil Gaiman's been known to spontaneously evoke > > > deep level Triple Goddess imagry while at a Maple Leafs game. > > > > I've been watching too much anime, because I immediately thought of Ah! My Goddess. Beth is obviously Belldandy, Em is Skuld and therefore Maya is sexy big sister Urd. > > > Um, what? You just do *not* want to know... David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:56:48 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) - -----Original Message----- From: Laurent To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 27 April 2000 10:03 Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) >hrm, am I the only person on this list who doesn't speak Latin?!? If yes, I have >a piece of text that I would like to translate in Latin. Help, anybody? The text >in question is a part of the Book of Nod (Vampire). It's the one game I'd really >like to mix with IN. Whistling in the Dark will probably not like it... sorry. I can give it a go, though I make _no_ promises, and it had better not be more than a few lines long. >PS: Genevieve, how many languages do you speak?!? French, somewhat. Latin I can try and hammer out with my dictionary from school, though it is not reliable and definitely not graceful. Greek I can remember the alphabet of from school (classical Greek) and maybe a few words, but alas, no dictionary, so very little. English -- somewhat. Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:22:10 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Hi folks, I shall have another crack at Latin now. This time I am armed with my copy of Kennedy's Latin Primer. Antediluvian does mean 'something/someone from before the flood'. 'Before the flood' would be Antediluvium. Similarly Antebellum means 'before the war'. 'Beofre the fall' would be Antecasus. So the form we are after is probably Antecasian. Does this seem OK? Christopher Lee >>You mean, Antediluvian? Most of my "knowledge" is picked up at random and >>is of dubious quality, but I always thought that antediluvian meant >>"before the Flood." Also nicely biblical, if so, and actual English too >I was actually going for something along the lines of "Antebellium," >which I just misspelled, and which refers to the pre-Civil War South. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:45:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about Attunments At 12:34 PM -0400 4/26/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 12:26 PM -0400 4/26/00, A.Hamilton wrote: >>Say the angel switches servitors, and for whatever reason is >>allowed to keep Servitor and Choir attunments for their old Superior, do >>they also keep the Dissonance conditions? >No. He is only bound to the Dissonance condition of his own Superior. >I think Lilith can be an exception, but if so she's it. (And that may >only apply to Frees, for that matter.) Actually, I think it applies to anyone who wants her Rites -- but I've always considered that something of a modified Geas, personally. I don't know if it's _possible_ (but just not done) to have any other Superior-pair's dissonance condition. Call that one CDaU, I think, because I sure don't want to have to decide. If they can, they typically don't, and if they can't, well then. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:53:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) At 10:42 AM -0700 4/27/00, Casca wrote: >On Thu, 27 April 2000, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> Genevieve is all knowing. She is the Fount from which good things >> spring. And somehow, if you put her, Em and Beth into the same room, >> Neil Gaiman appears and starts doing deep level Triple Goddess >> imagry. >I've been watching too much anime, because I immediately thought of Ah! My Goddess. Beth is obviously Belldandy, Em is Skuld and therefore Maya is sexy big sister Urd. Belldandy? I can't be Belldandy. I can't cook. Okay, so I'm not as bad as Akane (who, apparently, could poison Haagenti), or Ryoko or C-ko... But I'm no Kasumi either. (Or Sasami, for that matter.) Can I be Mara? >> Clearly, I didn't get enough sleep last night. > >I got enough sleep last night and I'm -still- wyrd. ;) Sleep? Sleep? I have a 2 month old baby who's decided that eating when she's hungry just isn't what she wants to do at 6 in the morning. No, she'd rather _whine_ about it and spit out mommy's anatomy just as the milk starts flowing like Niagra Falls.... What the blazes is _SLEEP?_ - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:09:56 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Sleep? Sleep? I have a 2 month old baby who's decided that > eating when she's hungry just isn't what she wants to do at > 6 in the morning. No, she'd rather _whine_ about it and spit > out mommy's anatomy just as the milk starts flowing like > Niagra Falls.... What the blazes is _SLEEP?_ Too. Much. Information. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:13:30 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Emily Dresner wrote: > Um, what? What, you don't take being fantasized about by anime fanboys as a pre-pubescent overly-cutesie anime chick* as a compliment? ;) - -David * I know, "overly-cutesie anime chick" is repetitively redundant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:45:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy At 10:03 AM -0500 4/26/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Speaking of "firstborn" and generations of angels, who exactly >created the various Superiors? God and other Superiors, in that order. O:> Lessee, where's a GMG... Ah, here it is. The first soul was Yves. Then we got Michael, Lucifer, Baal, (in that order) Gabriel, Uriel, Eli, and David (not necessarily in that order). The rest are pretty much all stated to be creations of those eight. Indeed, I blame Eli for wandering around dripping angels and relievers out from behind his feathers, not to mention the stray galaxy or at least nebula. I personally (may or may not become canon someday) think that Eli created Novalis and probably Jordi -- so long ago that he's quite forgotten about it. I strongly suspect that Yves made Jean and Raphael. I don't know who to blame for Dominic and Asmodeus. Maybe Yves again, or Uriel, since I can't see Dominic _not_ having sixteen flavors of cow if "Daddy" were AWOL, crazy, calling him a Hyena, or Fallen, and it just hasn't been mentioned. (Which may have been missing a bet, darnit; though his Word feels like it could fall under Yves pretty easily, 'twould have been cool to have had Gabriel been responsible. Ah, well.) Christopher used to be a Servitor of Stone, IIRC, so it's pretty much a given that he's one of David's. >Vapula, Haagenti, and Nybbas, for instance, were born in Hell, >but who created them? IIRC, Vapula is Kronos' darling little angel (ahem), Nybbas was once a measly little Impudite of Technology, and I think Haagenti achieved sentience in Sloth's Domain. Little demonlings... either created by Princes (possibly out of the "spare parts" that used to be a Servitor or failed them -- or some being who annoyed them!), or I seem to recall SJ saying that demonlings sort of form out of the sludge in the gutters and the crud behind the public toilets. Or that was at least the popular theory... Another notion that's been kicking around is that they form out of stray Forces attracted to Tethers, and just sort of "fountain out" occasionally at the celestial locus. (Whereupon they get chased out the door or escorted to a safe place, depending on the Domain.) IMC, Where Demonlings Come From is one of the mysteries of Hell. Even ex-demonlings don't remember. They just sort of become aware of being out on the streets of Shal-Mari (or scuttling around the barracks of Gehenna, or whatever), having been there a long time, and nothing else... Where relievers come from is probably far better known, and I steadfastly ignore it IMC. (Or maybe they _do_ just "turn up" from under cabbage leaves, sleeping behind books, playing Errol Flynn with a twig, playing marbles with gemstones, putting circuit boards together, in someone's pocket... [*]) [* Depending on Cathedral, of course.] IMC, I also have a Creation attunement that allows a limited form of creating relievers, but we won't go into that because some people hate it horribly and I quite like it. No tellng if it would ever show up as canon or not. Heh. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:45:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Question about Attunments At 6:20 PM -0400 4/26/00, A.Hamilton wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Walter Milliken >>Something I don't think is in canon, but probably should be, is that if >>you change Superiors, and have Choir/Band Attunements other than your >>own Choir/Band, these are lost when you are attuned to your new Superior. >>Servitor Attunements and your own Choir/Band Attunement *may* be kept. > >Well, if the FAQ/Errat is considered Canon then it is. At the least, I would consider it implicit in the ruling that you can only have _your_ Choir/Band Attunement from another Superior. If you had it and changed Superiors, tough. O:> (This may have been touched upon in the IPG?) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:45:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) At 2:36 PM -0400 4/27/00, Emily Dresner wrote: >> I've been watching too much anime, because I immediately thought of >> Ah! My Goddess. Beth is obviously Belldandy, Em is Skuld and therefore >> Maya is sexy big sister Urd. > >Um, what? Manga/Anime. Skuld is the dinky one with the mallet who wanders around doing technomiracles (sometimes with bugs) and smiting the bugs of the WorldTreeComputer with said mallet. She also eats ice cream. (In IN terms, she's a reliever of Lightning who bids fair to grow up to be a Malakite. Has the attunement, certainly.) I think it fits. O:> At 7:56 PM +0100 4/27/00, Genevieve Cogman wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Laurent >>PS: Genevieve, how many languages do you speak?!? > >[...] English -- somewhat. Maya speaks wonderful English. Her American has a few quirks, though, which I heartlessly revise when I find them. (Mind, I feel so guilty; the quotes-and-punctuation conventions are totally backward over here versus over there.) She almost certainly cooks better than I do, so I'm also going to nominate her for Goddess First Class Belldandy... O;> - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:45:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy & Grigori At 5:18 PM -0500 4/26/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >Another question: Were the Grigori a result of Angelic creation Songs of >Creation (implied) or was this a direct Act of God? IIRC, they're God's fault. I think this is implied by the phrasing in the box on the Grigori in the main book, and may be backed up in the APG. - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:45:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's At 10:14 AM -0500 4/27/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >> Nope -- only the Kyriotates get the extra bennie of being able to >> do insects. (Other Choirs might be able to get a bug vessel from >> Jordi, mind. If they served him, that is. But that's not really an >> attunement.) > > >Hrrrmph!! Sorry 'bout that. Hey, it's about as useful as Gabriel's Detect Cruelty stuff, or maybe Elohim of the Wind... Nobody said the attunements were _balanced_. (You want to see "balance," look at GURPS IN -- that lists the costs.) >Well, I may just have to take up Earls gauntlet for a rewrite of Jordi now There's "rewrite" and there's "expansion." The existing mainbook text actually accomodates a more moderate expansion as well. And eventually, eventually... >He also seems a little off for IN and perhaps a little >closer to whatever he was in the French version. Closer than _Dominic_???? Now _there's_ an AA who's showing his roots... >If anything he and his servitors seem a little mamby-pamby for one of >the argueably more powerful Words. Say that to the Cherub in the Siberian Tiger vessel who's sitting on the hood of your car sometime...Or the flea with Corporeal Form. (Urk. Special Attack Superflea Bullet!) >BTW: I was wasn't really looking for a ruling on the Virtuoso comment per >se, Whew. O:> At 9:54 AM -0700 4/27/00, Ryan Elias wrote: >You know... I think I'd be inclined to disagree. I think it's fairly >easy to underestimate the "cause no dissonance in animal form" ability >of those sneaky Jordinians. Especially given that it's almost certainly >not common knowledge in Hell (or even in Heaven!) that this is the case. Oh, right, _that's_ the extra bennie they do get. Forgot about that. >Although my GM has ruled in favour of leverage when it comes to my butterfly >vessel. sigh. No throwing hammers for me...) What about picking them up and dropping them on people? Or dropping lead marbles -- a handful of grit in someone's eyes at the right moment can work wonders. At 10:59 AM -0700 4/27/00, Casca wrote: >What about Elohim of Animals, whose Resonance is line-of-sight? Oh, and them. *sigh* I would have checked things, but with no computer desk set up (at least it's in the garage now) and a baby sleeping on my chest... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:43:39 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > IMC, I also have a Creation attunement that allows a limited form > of creating relievers, but we won't go into that because some > people hate it horribly and I quite like it. No tellng if it > would ever show up as canon or not. Heh. I doubt I'll ever be allowed to use it in the "Falling Stars" game, but could you send it to me privately at least? /me ponders all those little origami Relievers with a grin ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1597 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.