From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Apr 29 12:24:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05283 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:24:20 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA26244 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:20:26 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:20:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200004291720.MAA26244@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1599 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, April 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1599 In this digest: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) IN> IN! My Goddess! Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! IN> Re: ethereals IN> Re: dc tethers Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! RE: IN> IN! My Goddess! Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God IN> Spring of Drowned Angel... Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God IN> Demon of Decay (long) Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God Re: IN> Player mistakes IN> Ethereals in the Celestial Realm Re: IN> Player mistakes Re: IN> Spring of Drowned Angel... Re: IN> Spring of Drowned Angel... Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God IN> Anime Angel Sketches Re: IN> Demon of Decay (long) Re: IN> Anime Angel Sketches Re: IN> Re: ethereals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Apr 2000 10:10:26 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) On Fri, 28 April 2000, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >But it fits. It's the classic Maiden/Mother/Crone triumvirate. Since only one of those is fertile, and you've just given birth... > > Hm. But as I recall, Verthandi/Skuld/Urd was an all-crone lot. I think they have the same mythic root. I also seem to recall that the Norse mythos had two groups, the Fates and the Norns, whose purposes may have overlapped. Or not, I can't recall. > (Or was that Lachsis, Atropos, and whatshernamepleasedon'tcurseme?) Clotho. Each was responsible for a particular part of life. Clotho, the youngest, wove the strands (birth); Lachesis measured them (adulthood); Atropos cut them (old age & death). > Besides, is Urd the _crone_? Yep. Of course, she's aged remarkably well in the anime. ;) > >What, no comment on my sophisticated pun? ;) > > Thank'ee much. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:16:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Casca wrote: > I think they have the same mythic root. I also seem to recall > that the Norse mythos had two groups, the Fates and the Norns, > whose purposes may have overlapped. Or not, I can't recall. "Norns," "Fates," and "Moirae" are Norse, Roman, and Greek, respectively, for closely analogous figures -- a trio of goddesses governing birth, life, and death. I always feel there should be some connection to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, but I don't know of any. Earl ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 2000 10:25:15 -0700 From: Casca Subject: IN> IN! My Goddess! On Fri, 28 April 2000, "-=|horsefly|=-" wrote: > >Wheras Urd seems to be a redeemed Servitor of Lust with Andre's Lilim attunement and knowledge of several rare and potent songs. > *Redeemed* Servitor of Lust while *retaining Andre's Lilim Attunement*? Seems. Probably isn't, though. If I were to fit them into IN history, I would imagine that they were recruited by Eli (or possibly Yves) before or during the Purity Crusade. Urd, being the oldest, shows her pagan heritage the most: chafes against Heavenly authority and uses sorcerous-flavored songs. In fact, she may actually possess Sorcery. Though I can see her doing to freelance work with Andre before the PC, so picking up the "Body by Andre" attunement isn't out of the question. Bell-Chan looks to have integrated quite nicely into Heaven, and seems to be working for Destiny. All her abilities (at least in the anime; haven't read ALL the manga) can be explained as songs, and the restoration of the temple she does in the first episode looks like it could be a Divine Intervention. Skuld is just -so- Malakite of Jean that she might conceivably fledge that way. Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? I don't believe the issue's ever been brought up.... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:37:57 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's From: "Marc Bowden" > > Plus, there's the fun of watching this truth dawn on a playing > group: Being more powerful doesn't make you *better*, it just enables > you to make a higher class of mistake. True, as the player of the person who blew up part of the Great Pyramid at Giza in my old GURPS Supers campaign can attest. *g* Prodigal Demon of Calling In to Tech Support Without the Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:46:52 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! Casca wrote: > Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? No. - -David (not Beth, but I did cowrite the EPG) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:35:31 +0100 From: "Stuart Park" Subject: IN> Re: ethereals > From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" > Subject: IN> Suggestions for adjucating Ethereals... > > I was thinking about the state of ethereals and worshippers... > > Canonically, Ethereals are a lot less powerful today than they once were. > What gives? Sure, a much smaller percentage of the population worships > Ethereal gods, but is the Essence gods (and archangels, for that matter) > recieve based on a proportion? I'd guess (in the case of the ethereal/ as opposed to celestials) that it has more to d owith the strength of faith. One genuine deeply faithful human, may generate more essence than a small flock of turn up for the services every week 'never-really-thought-about-its'. > Think about it this way. The first date I could find for a population in > Norway was about 850,000 people in 1800. Backtracking a thousand years to > the time of the Vikings, it is unlikely that there could have been more than > 250,000 people in the whole of the Norse lands - And I think that is a > rather high estimate. Now, I'm told that worship of the Norse Gods is > relatively popular among the New Age crowd. Yeah but this may have two subsequent queries 1. To what extent do ethereals suffer a chicken/egg relationship. For example a lot of cletic mythology has been used by the local new agers - its highly questionable to what extent their practices are even vaguely representative of the original celts, but are rather based on a lot of archaelogical assumptions, and nineteenth cnetury romantic idealised concepts of them as a golden age. Now does this alter the actual celestial who recieves the essence's nature for example a god to the celts as a vicious little sod, being misinterpreted by an archaeolgist, as a 'novalis' type, and being worshipped as such, or does this create a new ethereal? As a subsequebt if the rituals/ practices etc are mis-performed does this prevent said ethereal gaining essence? 2. Not to cast aspersions on anyone's faith, but a lot of the newer fait hs attract a lot of teenagers, and young people as they are different, how many of them actually have a really deep committment to that concept? Fair enough there may be 150% more people today 'worshipping' that ethereal, than in the past, but in 10 years time, when a new generation is around how many of them are still going to be worshipping that ethereal? Wheras in the past, that person was liable to hold that faith all their life. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised > if there are more than 250,000 people who engage in some sort of > Norse-worship today - and thats not to mention things like the 'Mother > Goddess.' God almighty, I would expect she personally has several million > worshippers - *twice* the population of Ancient Egypt, who supported an > entire pantheon. The books say that in the old days Ethereal Gods could take > on Archangels with a fraction of the worshippers they may have today... And > I'm not even getting into the 1 BILLION some-odd Hindus and *their* gods... > It does raise a lot of questions about that little throwaway comment in the original book (p53) about God 'rewritting history' to suit himself - and the genuine purpose of the purity cruscade. (although that could just be the cynical anti-authority part of my psyche talking) > Thoughts? Comments? How does this all work out? Fixes? Or is it just some > divine arms race? > Ever read 'Small Gods' by Terry Pratchett? Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:36:12 +0100 From: "Stuart Park" Subject: IN> Re: dc tethers Time to throw in my ha'penny's worth. Forewarning - I only have the main book, which isn't obscenely helpful re tethers > Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:57:07 +0100 > From: "Christopher Lee" > Subject: Re: IN> DC Tethers... > > Robert wrote, > > > > >Canonically, there are a lot of tethers in and around Washington, DO.CO. > >Twelve, at my count. While I guess we all expect a lot of tethers around a > >capitol, it seems like this is a lot... > > Is there any reason why this is a lot? Is there some rule of thumb about the number of tethers there ought to be in a locality? Is it linked to the local human population? For example might we expect one per million people? > > Personally I think that the presence of tethers is more down to random factors, since tethers are formed essentially by random elements of emotion, human actions, concentrations of resonance's, etc. So the size of the local human population will have a bearing as the more people there are the more likely these factors are to concentrate in the right patterns, but this is not a prerequisite. I would say that random factors are more likely to explain 'non-urban' tethers - for example one attached to the site of a battleground. However the level of tethers in a town is more likely to be affected by more 'predictable' elements - such as general spirituality/ major businesses in the town etc - this would obviously dictate the type of tethers/ words they serve and the actual number. For example a city like New Orleans, which has a reputation for occult/ party town, is more likely to have more/ stronger tethers, than a town of comparable sixe, in the mid-west. The town itself draws people because of that, who think they 'identify' with the town, and are then more likely to get involved in the type of activity that creates tethers.... The relative importance of a town, in the mortal world, is also going to have inffluenced the mortals coming to it, and inspired emotions, and actions that go with it. Irresective of age and size. The previous history of the town is also more likely to influence the number of tethers, than population - I can imagine that angels are more lilely to miss small tethers in less populated towns, or in areas which have only recently risen to importance. So towns that have recently had a population boom, may have less tethers than a long established town. Especially given the long-run mentality of superiors, it isn't inconcievable of some of them to still not have fully caught up with world affairs. I doubt that anyone is going to miss a really major tether irrespective of its locale, but if a lot of celestials are concentrated in one area, are more likely to pick up the resonance of a 'fledgling' tether. Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:55:31 -0400 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Earl Wajenberg wrote: > "Norns," "Fates," and "Moirae" are Norse, Roman, and Greek, > respectively, for closely analogous figures -- a trio of goddesses > governing birth, life, and death. I always feel there should be some > connection to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, but I don't know of any. Talk to Ken Hite, he'd probably find a way. =) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:59:58 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! > Casca wrote: > > Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? > > No. > > -David (not Beth, but I did cowrite the EPG) And when might it be going to playtest??? (Asks the other David with a gimlet gleam to his eye...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:18:56 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! At 12:46 PM -0500 4/28/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Casca wrote: > > Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? > >No. > >-David (not Beth, but I did cowrite the EPG) Is that intentionally past tense, as in "perhaps the EPG might be entering playtest soon?" This would be, IMO, a very good thing if so. The EPG's on my top three list of things I'm anxious to see. (Admittedly after Superiors 4, but that's selfishness being invoked.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:45:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! > This would be, IMO, a very good thing if so. The EPG's on my top > three list of things I'm anxious to see. (Admittedly after Superiors > 4, but that's selfishness being invoked.) Yeah, but you'll get a whole box full of those. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emily K. Dresner -- Writer, Musician, Hacker, Maniac Home Page -- http://www.pave-france.org/zenith Hitherby | Eli says, "When I was on the cross, I said, 'Eli, Eli, why have you forsaken me?' You know why? Because I was using the *Kyriotate resonance*." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:26:29 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> IN! My Goddess! > -David (not Beth, but I did cowrite the EPG) REALLY... And when might we see said document? - -Robert (whose been fiddling around with playing the Puck in the game he's in...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:52:58 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Is that intentionally past tense, as in "perhaps the EPG might be > entering playtest soon?" Yup. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:01:22 EDT From: Daedalus3D@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God Hey Guys, Okay, for the record, the Aztecs worshiped gods like Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, and Huitzilopochtil. Unlike the Aztec people (actually called the Mexica by most scholar types), the gods of the Aztecs were not new. The Aztecs were actually a fairly new empire on the continent when Cortez and company got there, but the Aztec gods had been worshiped in various forms by the Toltecs, the Olmecs, the Maya and many other peoples long before the Aztecs got there. So, the "Aztec" gods have the right to be much older, more powerful, and stronger than has previously been discussed. On this note, somebody needs to make some comments about Angels/Demons/Gods being worshiped under different names. After all, Michael wasn't always called Michael, he was first called something in Hebrew and something in proto-Hebrew before that, and he probably had a name in some gutteral cave-language as well (that might even be his true name, because I'm sure celestials were much less careful about keeping those secret back in 20,000 B.C.). To start another list-wide controversy, have you guys even dealt with the "heresy" that would obviously spread among ethreal spirits and possibly even some angels: namely that God wasn't always the highest power in the cosmos, but was originally just an ethreal/celestial spirit created by the worship of the Jews. In this world view, God got stronger and stronger by the growing ranks of monotheistic peoples until He was powerful enough to make Himself one with the Symphony. Then, of course, He rewrote history to His divine plan. Uriel made things easier for Him by destroying all those who would challenge God's total control of the cosmos. Prehaps only Yves and God know the truth about this. Lucifer may know, but God's influence in the Symphony may cause him to doubt himself. That may be why Lucifer is so fascinated by Kronos who was created apart from God. Lucifer may be manipulating Kronos to find out the truth about the nature of God. That last paragraph could simply be a despicable heresy started by Malphas, Kobal, or even Lucifer himself, or the Truth, depending on what type of game you want to play. Either way, you gotta be careful about messing with your players religious beliefs when you pull up issues like that. Anyway, I'd like your feedback on that. This was my first post, so I look forward to future discussions with you guys. Peace. Daedalus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:00:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Spring of Drowned Angel... Or deamon, really. Rumors of an artifact -- perhaps created by human sorcerers, perhaps ethereals, perhaps something Eli cooked up while on a five-day-drunk -- in the form of _water_. When a celestial's vessel is drowned in it, any other living thing that is subsequently immersed in the water will acquire the resonance of the celestial who was so placed in Trauma! The effect is activated by cold water, during which time his celestial form changes (though not his true nature, other attunements, etc.) and he loses access to his own resonance. Hot water poured upon the subject swaps him back. Yes, I've been reading too much anime. Yes, it's obscenely powerful if it allows resonance swapping. (Hey, try to drown two at once! It worked for Pantyhose Taro!) This is why it's a _rumor_... Though for a very silly game... Be sure to arm yourself with hot-water-balloons! - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:40:17 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's > >He also seems a little off for IN and perhaps a little > >closer to whatever he was in the French version. > > Closer than _Dominic_???? Now _there's_ an AA who's showing his roots... > Well, considering that Dominic in my campaign (the one David R plays in) just went Outcast... > >If anything he and his servitors seem a little mamby-pamby for one of > >the argueably more powerful Words. > > Say that to the Cherub in the Siberian Tiger vessel who's sitting on > the hood of your car sometime...Or the flea with Corporeal Form. (Urk. > Special Attack Superflea Bullet!) Y'know, Beth, I've been trying to figure out where David was going with all these Jordian questions, considering that I haven't allowed PC Jordians in my campaign yet. Hm. Perhaps it's time for a few of them to drop in on his character... Ki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:54:37 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God Either way, you gotta be careful about messing with your > players religious beliefs when you pull up issues like that. Anyway, I'd > like your feedback on that If you are running IN, you need to either recruit players who can handle the subject matter, or educate the ones you have. If they're going to be offended, they belong in someone else's game... Ki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:22:12 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: IN> Demon of Decay (long) I wanted to try my hand at a celestial with a Major Word, and near Prince-level power. Comments appreciated. Kezef Demon of Decay Calabite Duke of Decay Everything decays. Everything rots and falls apart. This is a fact of life. This is the world. Corporeal Forces - 5 Strength 11 Agility 9 Ethereal Forces - 6 Intelligence 12 Precision 12 Celestial Forces - 5 Will 12 Perception 8 Word Forces - 18 Vessel(s): Human/3 (Short, ugly, male -2 charisma), Mound of Garbage/6 Skill(s): Dodge/3, Fighting/6, Large Weapon/4, Move Silently/3, Running/3, Swimming/2, Language/5 (Babylonian), Language/4 (Arabic), Language/4 (English), Language/3 (French), Language/6 (Hebrew), Lying/6, Detect Lies/2, Singing/4 Song(s): Affinity(Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/3), Cacophony(Corporeal/2, Ethereal/3), Entropy(Corporeal/3), Might(Corporeal/3, Ethereal/2, Celestial/3), Plagues(Corporeal/2), Feedback(Celestial/3) Attunement(s): Calabite of Saminga, Balseraph of Saminga, Rotting Curse, Natural Causes, Knight of Dead, Captain of the Infernal Legion, Baron of Undead Kingdom, Duke of Decay, Demon of Decay Discord: Aura of Entropy/6 Special Attunement(s): As the Demon of Decay and the Duke of Decay, Kezef has two special attunements that he may pass on to his servitors. Compost: Kezef may take a vessel of garbage, which moves at 1/4 the speed a normal vessel moves, however is not as limited in reach (via slimy tendrils), and has profound psychological impact on humans. Shedim who receive this attunement may possess garbage, 10 lbs per Corporeal Force. Rot: Similar to Rotting Curse, Kezef and any Calabim he grants this attunement to may use their resonance to rot their target rather than destroying it. Wood grows soggy, milk sours, metal corrodes. This power does not work on living beings. Special Rite(s): Kezef gains an additional point of Essence if he watches garbage decompose for 6 hours. He may grant this rite to others. Kezef is an old demon, a mere reliever at the time of the fall, he followed the Morning Star into Hell and became an Imp. He became a Calabite in service to Beelzebub, the first Demon Prince of Corruption. When Saminga came into power Kezef was sent to assist the new prince's ranks. The Calabite began to associate both Corruption and Death in his mind and worked hard to promote both. When Uriel slew Beelzebub, he began to serve Saminga directly, and reaped the rewards. He grew quickly in rank afterwords, pretending to be a lacky, while quietly waiting his chance to fill his old superior's place. Eventually he was granted both the Word of Decay and the title Duke of Decay, although the circumstances behind why are still a mystery. Kezef's thirst for power was only growing. Annoyed with princehood being granted to a Shedite named Legion, Kezef head to earth, to gain supporters - and to help squelch the new Prince of Corruption. Saminga took Kezef's "rebellion" as a personal affront and set out to rip the Demon of Decay apart, Force by Force. However, before Saminga even left Hell, Kezef was trapped by angels of Stone, in a cave - similar to the prison that trapped Magog. Adventure Seed Kezef has been working on his prison since he was trapped (located in Cambridge, England). His Word, his resonance, and his attunements have slowly broken his bonds one by one, creating a very large vessel of garbage. Once free, he will want to return to power. While Saminga is unaware of his servitor's impeding freedom, Heaven does know. Angels are encouraged to stop the Demon of Decay. Any demons nearby may help Kezef with the angels or seek favor with Saminga and help the angels destroy the Duke of Decay. Kronos has the idea that Kezef's freedom draws nie and wants Kezef to survive the attack. - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of Kronos - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com Go Directly to the Blog http://www.impudite.com/abt-blog.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 2000 17:35:08 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! On Fri, 28 April 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > > Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? > > No. Okay....why not? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:42:52 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! At 5:35 PM -0700 4/28/00, Casca wrote: >On Fri, 28 April 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > > > > Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? > > > > No. > >Okay....why not? At a guess, for the same reason mortals can't go to Celestial realms before dying. Ethereal creatures cannot enter the parts of the Symphony that the Celestials are native to, any more than I can visit the interior of Mount Washington (without drilling equipment or a preexistent cave). The Symphony just doesn't permit it. It's like asking why a two dimensional creature can't climb a wall. For the two-d creature, height simply doesn't exist. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:12:59 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God At 5:01 PM -0400 4/28/00, Daedalus3D@aol.com wrote: >Hey Guys, > Hey, Daedalus, >To start another list-wide controversy, have you guys even dealt with the >"heresy" that would obviously spread among ethreal spirits and possibly even >some angels: namely that God wasn't always the highest power in the cosmos, >but was originally just an ethreal/celestial spirit created by the worship of >the Jews. That's a long-standing theory. In fact, it's explicitly mentioned in a lot of the books, including in passing in the core book, as I recall. I assume the forthcoming Ethereal Player's Guide will address it in heavy detail. Needless to say, the Angels and Demons alike tend not to even want to hear it. But the Ethereals love it, since it implies God can be taken down, and all his Servitors with them. >That last paragraph could simply be a despicable heresy started by Malphas, >Kobal, or even Lucifer himself, or the Truth, depending on what type of game >you want to play. It's not likely the demons would want to spread those heresies, since it relegates them to the same status as the Ethereals they have always assumed are beneath them. It's not in any Celestial's interests to spread the rumor that they're no more special than a dream-shade. In my opinion, anyhow. Of course, it *is* in the best interest of the Ethereals... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:01:34 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Player mistakes At 10:43 AM -0500 04/28/00, David Rodemaker wrote: >The other issue is that a lot of players cannot handle a powerful character, >playing that Word=Bound with a Major Word and a buch of other stuff is a >whole different ball-game from a 12 Force Mercurian with a Vassal level >distinction. Most GM's don't want to try to run a really high-powered game >because doing it right takes a lot of work... I'll have to agree here. I'm currently running a 'high-power' game, where two of the PC's are 12 force Vassals and the third is a 15 force Wordbound (3 of the Forces are WordForces). Though the work I'm doing isn't that much more than I'd nominaly use for a typical starting game, the storyline definitely has a more 'epic' feel to it. (And saying anymore on the list would be bad, because my players are listening. . .) >It seems to me BTW that In seems to have a ceiling at about 12 or so forces >and middle-level distinction to really work well as a game. Keeping in mind >differences in GM and player styles what does everyone else think? Yeah. The aformentioned PC's are definitely nothing to laugh at, though they also run at about 250 pts each (where each Force costs 10 pts, 1st Level Distinction costs 15 pts, & Words cost 50 pts). This means they have 84 bonus points on top of what you'd normally give a 12 force Celestial. 12 Forces, and 1st Level Distinction tends to be the point where things can get difficult for the unprepaired GM. >Beyond that the characters really get powerful very, very quickly and the >game really seems to take on a very different flavor and the amount of house >rules seems to explode... (I've avoided this problem altogether with the current game. PC's are not likely to be rewared with XP anytime soon. Mostly because they're already pretty powerful to begin with. . . Also it's because I care more about the story being told, than I do anything else.) *fhew* Anyway, hopefully that answers the questions (without raising more that might come from my tired, and often convoluted, logic) being asked. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:00:57 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Ethereals in the Celestial Realm Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At a guess, for the same reason mortals can't go to Celestial realms > before dying. Ethereal creatures cannot enter the parts of the > Symphony that the Celestials are native to, any more than I can visit > the interior of Mount Washington (without drilling equipment or a > preexistent cave). The Symphony just doesn't permit it. Bingo. Only celestials (or human souls) can go to the celestial realm. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 01:09:25 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Player mistakes Let me chip in here... I definitely agree that the "feel" of the game starts to change after PCs hit 12 Forces or so. Also that it becomes more work for the GM, as players have more nifty new powers, and can handle challenges that would have made them cringe when they started ("Will roll? Hah!"). The one campaign that I ran _past_ this point -- to the point where we had a 16 Force PC with a significant Word who was a Baron as well -- things got to be in serious danger of breaking down altogether. I don't view this as a serious flaw in the game, though; you can campaign for a _long_ time at the 9-12 Force level. Anyone else out there with much experience with "high powered" PCs and campaigns? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:20:05 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Spring of Drowned Angel... At 8:00 PM -0400 04/28/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: Be(le)th, stop giving me nightmares! };;;> _Ahem_, you're evil. I like that. You're also sick, sick, sick, but hey. Who here on the list isn't? Now, how should I somehow combine IN/LUM. . . *hrmn* Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 2000 23:11:36 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Spring of Drowned Angel... On Fri, 28 April 2000, "Tafka J." wrote: > You're also sick, sick, sick, but hey. Who here on the list isn't? It's not PC to call someone 'sick'. You should call them 'GM' instead. ;) > Now, how should I somehow combine IN/LUM. . . *hrmn* The scary thing is, I can answer this. Drop me a line if interested... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:21:15 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God > After all, Michael wasn't always >called Michael, he was first called something in Hebrew and something in >proto-Hebrew before that Michael is a Hebrew name :) (Other than that, I don';t disagree) jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:20:52 +0800 From: Quistis Subject: IN> Anime Angel Sketches Well, just thought i'd post a couple of sketches i did the other day using freehand ballpen and color markers :P They're a tad messy, but ok for thirty minute drawings I suppose. If you'd like to use them for anything just mail me ^_^ And yes, they're guys..very pretty ones in traditional bishounen fashion, from an original manga idea of mine. I made them without any IN choirs in mind. http://www.philsite.com/~escaflowne/Camus.jpg http://www.philsite.com/~escaflowne/faust3.jpg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------- Utena: "I'm the only one who can feel you- can't you feel me? No matter how much I touch you, does it just pass right through your skin...?" Touga: "I feel it with my heart." - - Quistis, deranged Touga no Miko - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:35:40 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Decay (long) > Return-Path: witkiller@hotmail.com > I wanted to try my hand at a celestial with a Major Word, and near > Prince-level power. Comments appreciated. Okay.... Here we go. =) > Kezef > Demon of Decay > Calabite Duke of Decay > > Everything decays. Everything rots and falls apart. This is a fact of life. > This is the world. I would have gone, at least for Irony, with Yeats's Second Coming. "The world falls apart, the center cannot hold." > Corporeal Forces - 5 Strength 11 Agility 9 > Ethereal Forces - 6 Intelligence 12 Precision 12 > Celestial Forces - 5 Will 12 Perception 8 > Word Forces - 18 Near prince? 6 corpreal, 6 ethereal, 6 celesteal. (What *are* word forces? Where are they defined? I'm guessing the Game master's pack or guide, neither of which I've been able to find) > Vessel(s): Human/3 (Short, ugly, male -2 charisma), Mound of Garbage/6 *cackle* > Song(s): Affinity(Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/3), > Cacophony(Corporeal/2, Ethereal/3), Entropy(Corporeal/3), Might(Corporeal/3, > Ethereal/2, Celestial/3), Plagues(Corporeal/2), Feedback(Celestial/3) No song of thunder? No major secret songs? Mighty few songs for as powerful a demon this is, IMO. > Special Attunement(s): As the Demon of Decay and the Duke of Decay, Kezef > has two special attunements that he may pass on to his servitors. > Compost: Kezef may take a vessel of garbage, which moves at 1/4 the speed a > normal vessel moves, however is not as limited in reach (via slimy > tendrils), and has profound psychological impact on humans. Shedim who > receive this attunement may possess garbage, 10 lbs per Corporeal Force. oooh. Cool. > Rot: Similar to Rotting Curse, Kezef and any Calabim he grants this > attunement to may use their resonance to rot their target rather than > destroying it. Wood grows soggy, milk sours, metal corrodes. This power does > not work on living beings. The normal calabite resounance works on humans, right? Why not this? Gangrene, various muscle decaying diseases, brittle bones, rotting hair, etc all seem to be valid and possible effects. > When Saminga came into power Kezef was sent to assist the new prince's > ranks. The Calabite began to associate both Corruption and Death in his mind > and worked hard to promote both. When Uriel slew Beelzebub, he began to > serve Saminga directly, and reaped the rewards. He grew quickly in rank > afterwords, pretending to be a lacky, while quietly waiting his chance to > fill his old superior's place. It might be apropos to have a few of Beelzebub's attunements. Not that they are defined in canon yet. I like. =) ------------------------------ Date: 29 Apr 2000 13:04:13 -0400 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Anime Angel Sketches >>>>> "Q" == Quistis writes: Q> Well, just thought i'd post a couple of sketches i did the other day using Q> freehand ballpen and color markers :P They're a tad messy, but ok for Q> thirty minute drawings I suppose. If you'd like to use them for anything Q> just mail me ^_^ And yes, they're guys..very pretty ones in traditional Q> bishounen fashion, from an original manga idea of mine. I made them without Q> any IN choirs in mind. Yes, but do their wings really bend that way? - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:18:31 -0500 From: Matt Trent Subject: Re: IN> Re: ethereals Stuart Park wrote: > Ever read 'Small Gods' by Terry Pratchett? That's actually how I've been running my Ethereal Essence Requirements. 8) Trent ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1599 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.