From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Apr 30 09:03:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32013 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:03:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA27284 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:01:58 -0500 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:01:58 -0500 Message-Id: <200004301401.JAA27284@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1600 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1600 In this digest: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) IN> Dominic IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe IN> Dominic Re: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe Re: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe Re: IN> Anime Angel Sketches Re: IN> Player mistakes RE: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe Re: IN> Player mistakes Re: IN> Ethereals in the Celestial Realm RE: Re:IN> hi all, I'm back Re: IN> Ethereals in the Celestial Realm Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! IN> chico latino IN> For those seeking main book... Re: IN> chico latino Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:15:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) > Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > "Norns," "Fates," and "Moirae" are Norse, Roman, and Greek, > > respectively, for closely analogous figures -- a trio of > goddesses > > governing birth, life, and death. I always feel there > should be some > > connection to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, but I don't know of > any. Triads are a big factor in many of the world's myths and religions. Father, Son, Holy Spirit -- Maiden, Mother, Crone, etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:32:38 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) At 11:15 AM -0700 4/29/00, O. S. Kerr wrote: > > Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > "Norns," "Fates," and "Moirae" are Norse, Roman, and Greek, > > > respectively, for closely analogous figures -- a trio of > > goddesses > > > governing birth, life, and death. I always feel there > > should be some > > > connection to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, but I don't know of > > any. > >Triads are a big factor in many of the world's myths and >religions. Father, Son, Holy Spirit -- Maiden, Mother, Crone, etc. ...Seraph, Cherub and Malakite, oh Most Just.... Hm. We've talked for a long while about the possibility of Dominic being a Balseraph under his cloak. What if he's a triple-angel under there. What if, following the failure of the Seraph's Judgement in the Fall, Dominic took in two trusted Servitors and together petitioned Yves to make all three of them the Angel of Judgement, and they wear their cloak to disguise their comingled Celestial Forms. Say, the original Seraph (whose name remains the name of the "whole,") a Cherub, and a Mercurian or Malakite.... Or is that silly? - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: 29 Apr 2000 12:13:18 -0700 From: Casca Subject: IN> Dominic On Sat, 29 April 2000, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > We've talked for a long while about the possibility of Dominic being > a Balseraph under his cloak. What if he's a triple-angel under there. > What if, following the failure of the Seraph's Judgement in the > Fall, Dominic took in two trusted Servitors and together petitioned > Yves to make all three of them the Angel of Judgement, and they wear > their cloak to disguise their comingled Celestial Forms. Say, the > original Seraph (whose name remains the name of the "whole,") a > Cherub, and a Mercurian or Malakite.... > > Or is that silly? > > > -- > Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a > in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of > http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. > http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:21:08 EDT From: Daedalus3D@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe I totally disagree with the idea that demons wouldn't spread the Heresy that God wasn't always God. For one, it means that they could actually win The War. If God is not the absolute power in the universe, then that blows holes through the "unequal" nature of Heaven and Hell. Sure, the demons might not want to spread the Heresy through their own ranks (which could lead to servitors challanging their superior's right to rule), but wouldn't Malphas love it if the Host started to doubt the supreme nature of their leader and creator? Malphas probably even has a Demon of Heresy working with him to undermine angelic moral from the inside out. The very being of angels is based upon the idea that God is supream, and if you got them to question that, them corrupting the Host could begin on a large scale. To me, the possibilities seem endless. However, I do agree with what has been said concerning the Heresy's meaning for Ethreals. But I have a couple of questions about that. 1) Do any ethreals actually remember a time when God was not God? Or has God's control of the Symphony warped them until they aren't sure? I hope the answer isn't "wait for the EPG." 2) There would probably even be some ethreals who would question God's current understanding of the Symphony, right? After all, if God isn't infallible, who is He to interpret the Symphony for everyone else? At heart, it's the same question that lead to the founding of Protestantism. Don't ethreals, and Celestials for that matter, have the right to interpret the Symphony for themselves? I could imagine that the Taoist ethreals are really distrought by God's perversion of the Dao (the Way, which to them would be the true nature of the Symphony). Finally, what has been your experience with gaming Celestials in other countries. I know that Superiors tend to want their servitors to stay in one place, but wouldn't assignments eventually carry them all over the world? After all the War isn't limited to the Western hemisphere. How would you deal with Celestials in places like Asia and Africa, where the native peoples have their own demons and spirits? Saying that they are all ethreals seems awkward and unlikely. Daedalus ------------------------------ Date: 29 Apr 2000 12:22:36 -0700 From: Casca Subject: IN> Dominic Sorry about the previous message that didn't say anything. I'm still getting used to web-based email. On Sat, 29 April 2000, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > We've talked for a long while about the possibility of Dominic being > a Balseraph under his cloak. What if he's a triple-angel under there. [snip] > Or is that silly? Not really. While I personally wouldn't use it, I'm all for adding complexity and depth to Dominic, because if played at face value he's terribly fascist and one-dimensional. The theory that I use in my games is that Dominic's cloak isn't really a cloak: it's his wings. He wraps himself up in them in classic Biblical style (see quote below) as a -kindness- to the other angels, because very few celestials can look upon the face of Judgement and not feel horribly unworthy. I run Dominic as a former servitor of Purity, and that influences his conception of the Word. Any being who look upon Dominic uncloaked sees his sins for what they are -- the lies and rationalizations that we construct to make it easier to live with ourselves. While angels do have it easier than humans in this regard, even they make mistakes, and the last thing Dominic wants is to cause a crisis of faith in an angel who suddenly realizes just how many errors he's made. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:52:42 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe At 3:21 PM -0400 4/29/00, Daedalus3D@aol.com wrote: >I totally disagree with the idea that demons wouldn't spread the Heresy that >God wasn't always God. For one, it means that they could actually win The >War. If God is not the absolute power in the universe, then that blows holes >through the "unequal" nature of Heaven and Hell. Agreed there. However, if God were an overpowered Ethereal, formed out of the worship of humans, then humans predated all Celestials. Humans *created* them out of their dreams and whims. Which means that a Demon's most central belief -- the very core belief that led to the Fall -- is wrong: humans *are* in fact more important than Angels (and Demons). God is no better than any other Ethereal, and God was the one who made the Angels, who Fell into the Demons. So, in effect, the heresy claims that Demons are *inferior* to the run of the mill Ethereal God, and I don't know many Demons who'd be willing to claim that. > Sure, the demons might not >want to spread the Heresy through their own ranks (which could lead to >servitors challanging their superior's right to rule), but wouldn't Malphas >love it if the Host started to doubt the supreme nature of their leader and >creator? Malphas probably even has a Demon of Heresy working with him to >undermine angelic moral from the inside out. Actually, the Demon of Heresy (who *is* a Servitor of Factions, IPG p.23) is a given, so this is certainly true. Though I'd expect said Demon of Heresy would be more devoted to factionalizing the various churches of mankind into ever smaller and more militant sects. Actually, on reading the section in question, that's exactly what his job is. I'm not saying Malphas wouldn't *love* to spread the belief that God is just a hyped up Ethereal to the Angels. The problem is, he *wouldn't* love Baal (or Lucifer) walking in, saying "so, we're just trumped up Dreamshades, are we?" and cutting Malphas into Shedite-steaks. And his momentary pleasure in having the Ethereals start to put on airs around the demons would be quashed by Asmodeus and Beleth coming down hard on him for muddying Ethereal/Demon relations (which right now have the Demons *squarely* on top and the Ethereals just little puddles of semi-belief under them). > The very being of angels is >based upon the idea that God is supream, and if you got them to question >that, them corrupting the Host could begin on a large scale. To me, the >possibilities seem endless. I'm also not sure how many Angels could be effectively corrupted, that way. After all, the Angels *are* in Heaven. They can see the evidence of God's Supremacy whenever they wish. The Angels can also have Words, which Ethereals cannot. No, my Balseraph friend -- your perverse turning away from God has finally driven you insane. Come back to us. Come back to us and see... >However, I do agree with what has been said concerning the Heresy's meaning >for Ethreals. But I have a couple of questions about that. > >1) Do any ethreals actually remember a time when God was not God? Or has >God's control of the Symphony warped them until they aren't sure? I hope the >answer isn't "wait for the EPG." The Ethereals claim the former. I'm sure the latter is -- worse than wait for the EPG -- CDaU. The question of God's Supremecy won't get answered in any supplement. But that *would* be a theory, yes. >2) There would probably even be some ethreals who would question God's >current understanding of the Symphony, right? After all, if God isn't >infallible, who is He to interpret the Symphony for everyone else? Absolutely. >At heart, it's the same question that lead to the founding of >Protestantism. Don't ethreals, and Celestials for that matter, have >the right to interpret the Symphony for themselves? Well, Protestantism came about because of Laurence's own attempts to reform the Catholic church (he didn't intend to fragment it, but humanity is still humanity, after all), but the founding tenants of Protestantism were more centered around abuses in the Catholic Hierarchy. It *evolved* from there into concepts (in some sects) of Lay Ministry and the like, but interpretation of scripture was kind of low on the list for the reasons behind the Schism. Later "interpretation of scripture" drivers had as much to do with secular drivers as spiritual ones. Henry VIII leaps to mind -- he wanted Papal Authority out of his affairs, wanted some of the monies going to the church, wanted property, and wanted the right of divorce. > I could imagine that the Taoist ethreals are really distrought by >God's perversion of the Dao (the Way, which to them would be the >true nature of the Symphony). I would imagine you're very right. >Finally, what has been your experience with gaming Celestials in other >countries. I know that Superiors tend to want their servitors to stay in one >place, but wouldn't assignments eventually carry them all over the world? >After all the War isn't limited to the Western hemisphere. How would you >deal with Celestials in places like Asia and Africa, where the native peoples >have their own demons and spirits? Saying that they are all ethreals seems >awkward and unlikely. Well, these are all covered pretty extensively in the Canon line, including the status of Ethereals in other parts of the world. The short answer is yes, they *are* all Ethereals. But some Ethereals are cut more slack than others, in places like India and religions like the Voudoun or the Aboriginal Dreamtime, where the belief structures of those local religions benefit Heaven as well as the Ethereal Religion. But recall also that the Purity Crusade was worldwide, not Western-only, and it devestated pantheons throughout the world. So at this stage of the game, the Angels and Demons pretty much have free run of the planet, and the Ethereals are almost universally licking their wounds in the Marches, generally beholden to Hell for protection. The Ethereal Tethers and other strongholds that remain are very few and very far between, at least in Canon. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:02:08 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe Daedalus said: >1) Do any ethreals actually remember a time when God was not God? Or has >God's control of the Symphony warped them until they aren't sure? I hope >the >answer isn't "wait for the EPG." But, Daedalus, if we don't keep you hanging, how else will we sell the book?? I hope not as well, for sanity's sake. But, of course, the canon answer won't be the one I like, nothing seems to be that's canon. ;) >2) There would probably even be some ethreals who would question God's >current understanding of the Symphony, right? After all, if God isn't >infallible, who is He to interpret the Symphony for everyone else? At >heart, >it's the same question that lead to the founding of Protestantism. Ha ha!! But you forget Christianity's not the True religion! (Except that Dominic and Laurence support it a lot . . . especially Catholicism (sp?). Don't >ethreals, and Celestials for that matter, have the right to interpret the >Symphony for themselves? I could imagine that the Taoist ethreals are >really >distrought by God's perversion of the Tao (the Way, which to them would be >the true nature of the Symphony). Actaully, as a dabbler in Taoism myself and somewhat knowledgable about its history (a bit), I'd say that they'd only really be upset at: (a) Ethereals/Celestials assuming physical form on earth and thus be "unnatural" and (b) the use of Songs to tweak the Symphony two things which, as we all know, almost *never* happens >Finally, what has been your experience with gaming Celestials in other >countries. I know that Superiors tend to want their servitors to stay in >one >place, but wouldn't assignments eventually carry them all over the world? >After all the War isn't limited to the Western hemisphere. How would you >deal with Celestials in places like Asia and Africa, where the native >peoples >have their own demons and spirits? Saying that they are all ethreals seems >awkward and unlikely. > >Daedalus I'd like to bring up the fact that In Nomine is the American version of a French game based (perhaps loosely) on the structure of Catholicism . . . hence the origin of the game includes the idea that YES Jesus is the Savoir of the world and YES Catholicism is the CORRECT Religion because Jesus was the FIRST "direct line" to God's Truth, so to speak. So, yes, so far as I can tell, it's part of the basic structure of In Nomine that all religious beings other than the AAs and DPs and their servitors are "false deities", therefore Ethereals. I've found that reading the french game to be help A LOT. It explains the bizarre structure of the American book's rules, the reference to losing Strength points when you take damage (its somewhere in there), as well as why Asmodeus is the DP of the Game and not Judgement (Dominic is the AA of Justice, in the french game). Interestingly enough, in the French game its rumored that Catherine, ancient AA of Women (patron of Jeanne d'Arc, actually) had been the Goddess Demeter before converting to Catholicism, its also rumored that she haad once been a pagan woman/human, who upon coverting and doing great good works, was transformed into an AA. She's also the only AA who can be invoked by a human being, any woman in dire need who prays for and scores a 111 on a roll. :) Anyway . . . the Monotheistic God idea as CORRECT and the Polytheistic Gods idea as INCORRECT seems to me to be core to the game. Then again, in one of my games I did transport my PCs into a part of the universe in which God's Symphony *did not exist* . . . Lovecraft received some Essence *that* night. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:09:00 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Anime Angel Sketches At 1:04 PM -0400 04/29/00, Jason F. McBrayer wrote: >Yes, but do their wings really bend that way? Ask Andre. He can do _many_ things with pretty-pretty Angel wings. };;;> Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:53:44 CST From: "Justin Buhler" Subject: Re: IN> Player mistakes I'ce been reading this thread for about a week now, and have considerd how a campaign I'm running has matured over its creation. See, at the start with the 9, or less than (in some caes), Forces the PCs seems a little more enthusiastic, ready togo out and do whatever it is they feel is necessary (It's a Diabolical campaign). After a while (Aprox. 10 or 11 Force) they tend to get rooted into their roles, becoming more aware at how theiractions affect basiaclly everything in the game. This is where the action tends to start the cool down process and conspiracies and manipulations take over force and power. When the gam reaches it's "roofing point" (12 to 15 Force with Distinctions and Words becoming introduced), the PCs have almost toally forgotten about their "Good Old day" where they did all their own fighting, and have now relied more upon getting mundanes and/or servants of their own to do their work. Finally, the PCs leanr what it's like to be a "Superior" when almost all of them have a Word. It is now that the game has reached its full maturity, and I find that Princely calls become less and less frequent, as now they have their own Words to work on. I'm not sure if its the same in anyone elses games, but in mine it sure is. =) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:07:01 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> Re: Heresy, the Symphony, and the Globe > The Angels can also have Words, which Ethereals cannot. I've been toying with the idea of Ethereals being a little more abstract and Word-like in the essence they receive... So that Ethereals receive essence not just from rites and worshippers but from acts that reaffirm their nature... Of course, this means that various gods fight over who gets what, and if a Celestial has a Word that would draw essence from such a source, the Celestial gets the lion's share of the essence... A good reason, perhaps, while Ethereals are weaker now - More Words, and those Words have grown in power, decreasing the abstract essence Ethereals recieve. - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:12:34 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Player mistakes > > Anyone else out there with much experience with "high powered" PCs and > campaigns? > My secondary campaign centers around 16-18 Force Word-bound. And it's nothing at all like my 9-12 Force game. Probably why I see the difference so blatantly... My "high-level" game tends to deal far more with high-level strategy on multiple levels - much like some of the old war-games I used to play. The PC's have organizations to handle, servitors to deal with, and numerous favors to call in if need be. (Of course, they also *owe* favors...) There's also a ton of history to deal with - the characters have been around for a *long* time. It also runs pretty close to being diceless, with the exception of rolling check digits and rolling to see if an intervention happens to occur. Combat at this level? Not with dice - strictly GM's call and flavor text as to how it works out. The geographical scope is also much wider, and the type of problem being dealt with is far more epic in scope than my poor little group of recent fledglings will ever even think about getting anywhere near. It's fun, but it requires pretty high-caliber players... Ki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:44:12 -0700 From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals in the Celestial Realm > At a guess, for the same reason mortals can't go to Celestial realms > before dying. Ethereal creatures cannot enter the parts of the > Symphony that the Celestials are native to, any more than I can visit > the interior of Mount Washington (without drilling equipment or a > preexistent cave). The Symphony just doesn't permit it. A far more *interesting* answer is to say, "No... not without help." This help can take several forms. A Superior could take an ethereal with them, if they wanted to, that's pretty much canon. Canon being "Superiors can do just about anything the GM wants with a few notable exceptions." A pox upon anyone who attempts to debate or degrade the Archangels and Demon Princes powers. They are the third most powerful class of being *in the universe*. Give them some slack. Speculation on crafting a heart for an ethereal is welcomed. Outside of canon and depending on the GM, Ethereals might be able to do the "Grab and ascend/descend with you" trick, or might be able to ascend with the help of appropriate tether, such as the Two Towers of Dream and Nightmare and any tether to Dreams or Nightmares. The reason I say this is I can think of no more romantic an image than Hermes Mercury or a similar "messenger" god climbing the steps of the Council Spires during the Purity Crusade to speak alongside Blandine for the slaughter to end. On a more general note, I'm getting disturbed that one of the main thrusts of the original In Nomine concept is being wittled down by various supplements being released. The concept being, "Yes, you are angels and demons. But guess what, you don't know all the secrets the universe." I'm getting tired of all the information being "set in stone" as far as the players are concerned if they've read a couple of supplements, denying the GM a valuable tool for adventures and roleplaying. In the original mode of the game, IMHO, one of the fun things was finding out more about the universe as you played, *as the GM said so*, in a very Traveller-esque manner, where your rewards were not just in points and relics, but in information and knowledge, like real experience in real life. Then again, maybe I'm just tired of sitting down with each new player I get and saying, "Forget everything you read in the CPG, APG, IPG and GMG. You don't know where any soul will go, why they go there, how ethereals exist, how ethereals get essence, how they are killed, how the Demon Princes and Archangels get their powers, what a Superior is capable of doing, who all the word-bound are, where anything in the Marches is, and what the real story behind the Fall is. You have to *learn* that in character and through playing." = Mathus = = Demon of Rants = = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 00:16:48 -0500 (CDT) From: tomtimb@ionet.net Subject: RE: Re:IN> hi all, I'm back On 28 Apr 2000 10:19:29 -0000 you wrote: > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:00:29 -0500 (CDT) tomtimb@ionet.net wrote: > >...and I have a question: does anybody know what newsgroups are out there for > >survivors of colon cancer? > err, sorry, no clue. oh well, maybe someone else will know. > >And to make this relevant to IN, who would the Demon of Cancerous Growths > >serve, Fate or Death, or maybe some other DP? > Death, and just to make it a stronger word, i'd say it's the Demon of Cancer. the Band is obvious: it's a Shedite. Actually, was thinking of a Cal with a variant means of using his entropy field. Instead of doing just raw damage, the CoD's entropy field, when focused, causes damage to the cellular DNA of his target, which causes the cell to become cancerous and start its career as a growth. Resistance backlash from those he failed to affect, with the resultant self-damage when he absorbed his own energy to avoid Dissonance, has made him one of the uglier demons, since these "mortal" diseases can live in him, but can't kill him. Since the movie came out "All That Jazz" came out, he loves to use a White Lady vessel to reveal himself; a nice friendly, familiar even, image that gulls the victims into allowing him to approach unresisted. Rites: +1 for each cancer victim that dies, +2 if they fall into despair and turn their backs on Heaven as a result of their cancer. +1 for each new victim he infects. Not too many Servitors, but almost all of them are Cal's, just like their Master. A few Bals to keep people deluded [I'm fine, it's just a chest cold] until it is too late to do anything but die comfortably. Djinn don't like working for the DoC, since only they themselves are allowed to hurt their attuned. The few who work for Malignus [There, he has a name now] are to make their charges uncomfortable, keep them from seeking *effective* help [they can waste their money on ineffective help until the cows come home...] and keep Memunim and other Divine Celestials out of the neighborhood. Calabim have the ability to use their entropy fields like their Master does. Lilim are too grossed out by Malignus' looks to even think about approaching him to add themselves to his Service. Besides, that ultimately would make them Madman Saminga's [a nickname they use carefully, lest he overhear -- he may be mad as a hatter, but he is still a DP, with all the Power that portends; plus, as we have seen in Dark Dream, he knows Nasty Tricks To Play With Souls -- definitely NOT the guy you want to have angry with you, no matter how nutso he is.] -- a thought best not dwelt on. Shedim can be used in a similar manner to the Djinn -- as long as their host is not cured of their Master's "gift", they can continue to inhabit the host without having to worry about corrupting it -- their Master has already seen to that for them. All they have to do is keep the host from asserting him/herself and seeking to undo their Master's work. Habbalah are useful to Malignus as a means of making the victim despair, of knocking down the mental defenses that might otherwise help the victim to fight off/recover from the DoC's foul touch. Drown them in sorrow and self-pity and despair, raise their anger against a Heaven that allow this to happen. Imp's of Malignus' are the perfect antidote to humans blowing their Essence to create a miracle cure, to heal themselves and get rid of the disease, which would not create Dissonance in the Cal who caused it, since the disease did take hold and go to work, hence no resistance backlash, the same as another Cal's victim who was healed of the direct damage does NOT cause backlash to other Calabim. The Impudites of Cancer can add their Cel Forces to their attempt to drain Essence from cancer victims, as well as their normal Imp of Death attunement from Malignus' Master, Dread Lord of Death Saminga. > >Who would the Angel of Catching Diseases Before They Can Become Incurable/ > >Spread Too Far serve? Destiny, in keeping a person from a premature death [and > >sometimes letting others go, who are ready to move on]; Death, self- > >explanatory; Flowers, who covers healing/ growth and not just chlorophyllia; > >or Protection? > Cherub of Protection IST Destiny. I like this, but am also drawn to Mercurians and Flowers. But the Destiny attunement for Cherubim is just too good a fit with his job to let it go by. Maybe Ch. of Fl. IST Destiny, with the CoD attunement? > > >I apologize if this looks a bit funky; using my aunt's computer and my ISP's > >webmail capabilities to try on catch up with all email since I went into the > >hospital on 4/11 [over 400 entries, mostly all IN]and the preferences may be a > >bit off. > i'll keep praying for you. thanks -- this is as appreciated as the suggestions. Besides, I've got it down to under 100 now, and 30 of those I have read and decided I wanted to keep them until I get home and can print them out on my home computer. > > >take care all, > >tom timberlake, hoping they got it all like it appears they did. > you too, Tom, and God bless. > -=|horsefly|=- Thanks, horsefly, I appreciate it. tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:46:55 +1000 From: Brent McCartney Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals in the Celestial Realm >On a more general note, I'm getting disturbed that one of the main >thrusts of the original In Nomine concept is being wittled down by >various supplements being released. The concept being, "Yes, you are >angels and demons. But guess what, you don't know all the secrets the >universe." I'm getting tired of all the information being "set in stone" >as far as the players are concerned if they've read a couple of >supplements, denying the GM a valuable tool for adventures and >roleplaying. In the original mode of the game, IMHO, one of the fun >things was finding out more about the universe as you played, *as the GM >said so*, in a very Traveller-esque manner, where your rewards were not >just in points and relics, but in information and knowledge, like real >experience in real life. > >Then again, maybe I'm just tired of sitting down with each new player I >get and saying, "Forget everything you read in the CPG, APG, IPG and >GMG. You don't know where any soul will go, why they go there, how >ethereals exist, how ethereals get essence, how they are killed, how the >Demon Princes and Archangels get their powers, what a Superior is >capable of doing, who all the word-bound are, where anything in the >Marches is, and what the real story behind the Fall is. You have to >*learn* that in character and through playing." > > > >= Mathus = >= Demon of Rants = >= ArchRival of Timothy = I find that the best way to run a game is to make the various supplements "No Man's Land". Thus the players have to go and do the learning both in and out of character. My GM for Deadland's does this and not only with the sections marked "No Man's Land" and "Marshal's Territory". If there is a supplement out that our characters wouldn't have knowledge about he asks us not to read it. This has worked very well for our game, it has been running weekly for two years now, and there is nothing more satisfying that the horror that dawns (even for us) when we finally figure something out. Some might say that this is unrealistic, but it depends on the group of players that you have as to whether this would work. I am lucky to be involved with a group that is mature and dedicated to the games that they play in and thus are willing to accept the restrictions that the GM has placed on us. Besides it makes the entire experience more fun. The one person that has read most of the supplements still enjoys the game immensely but not as much perhaps as the rest of us, cause he knows what some of the things that the GM is throwing at us. I also remember stumbling across some information totally by accident about halfway through a campaign and while the rest of the campaign was still immensely enjoyable I had some inside knowledge and it made it not quite the same as for the other players. I don't know if it would work with your players, but give it a go and see what happens. Brent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 05:51:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN! My Goddess! >On Fri, 28 April 2000, David Edelstein wrote: > >> > Hey Beth, is it possible for Etherals to enter the Celestial realms? >> >> No. > >Okay....why not? Depends on who you ask. Celestials say it's because ethereals just _can't_. They are natives of the ethereal plane. They don't have a soul. They just can't go there. Ethereals say it's because the celestial realm is Yahweh's Domain and He's found a way to barricade it to all ethereals except His creatures. (Much as ethereals can barricade their own Domains to human lucid dreamers, IIRC.) Yer pays yer money and yer picks yer side... - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:47:42 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> chico latino i was thinking of having the Sol Invictus cult pop up in a game i'm running. obviously by the modern day they've changed a fair bit from when they were around in roman times... partly this is due to logic, partly it's due to me having to make up a lot of stuff because to be honest i don't know much about the original cult past the summary level. does anyone know any fascinating facts or figures about them? oh, and seeing as my latin's about up to par with my algebra, i was hoping one of you latinates could tell me the "invictus" part actually means liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 08:18:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> For those seeking main book... Since the little Impudite wants to sleep on my lap instead of on the bed with me, I was surfing... For those who are looking for a copy of the main book (now officially OOP, I believe), there's a couple on eBay. One used, and one (mysteriously not bid up high as I type this) mint. (The newer one) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=319261228 (The used one) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=316468071 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:15:45 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> chico latino In a message dated 04/30/2000 3:48:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, esp.horsepie@btinternet.com writes: > oh, and seeing as my latin's about > up to par with my algebra, i was hoping one of you latinates could tell me > the "invictus" part actually means > > > liam Invictus means 'the Conqueror.' The cult of Sol Invictus would be the cult of the Conquering Sun.... All I remember is that they were a soldiers' mystery religion, based on some of the bastardized Greco-egyptian Re-Helios mixes. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:31:16 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Firstborn (was Angel of Pain) Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > "Norns," "Fates," and "Moirae" are Norse, Roman, and Greek, > respectively, for closely analogous figures -- a trio of goddesses > governing birth, life, and death. I always feel there should be > some connection to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, but I don't know of > any. If you were in the syncretizing mood, then it would probably be easier to combine the Christian Trinity and the Hindu Trimurti (the triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva). I wouldn't syncretize, though, because the differences are interesting. Eg, the concept of Brahman plays an analgous role to the Word, but the two are different enough ideas that comparing them is hard. Likewise with the aspects of each member of the respective triads. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:37:28 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztecs & The Nature of God Jo Hart weote: > >> After all, Michael wasn't always called Michael, he was first >> called something in Hebrew and something in proto-Hebrew before >> that > > Michael is a Hebrew name :) (Other than that, I don't disagree) IIRC, there's a little bit in the game _Nobilis_ that goes like this: "So you're telling me, that all the angels, they all speak Hebrew?" "Yeah, though all the hip, swinging angels speak Latin." - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1600 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.