From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 1 18:48:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA29190 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 18:48:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA07402 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 1 May 2000 18:46:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:46:15 -0500 Message-Id: <200005012346.SAA07402@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1604 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1604 In this digest: Re: IN> Sniper gear (clarification) Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Celestial Politics Re: IN> chico latino Re: IN> Animal Language's Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> Genealogy IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism 2 Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Pushing Books Re: IN> Pushing Books IN> Literary sources,the GMG, etc. Re: IN> RE: Players and Supplements Re: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism - Re: IN> RE: Players and Supplements Re: IN> Genealogy Re: IN> RE: Players and Supplements Re: IN> chico latino RE: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:44:41 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Sniper gear (clarification) Our spies report that on 01:51 PM 5/1/00 -0700, Sean McCarthy said: > We had a talk about kyriotates and GPS the other > day. Apparently, GPS for civilians is being allowed to be more accurate > as of ... today. Here's a press release: > >http://www.whitehouse.gov/library/PressReleases.cgi?date=0&briefing=0 > >Sean > Just realized I was being vague. The permissions are being done today, but the effects are still six or so years off. To try to justify this in IN context: Jean certainly could hand out GPS units that use the encoded military frequency. And I'm sure Laurence has a number of said units. Just in case. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:52:26 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books At 2:31 PM -0700 5/1/00, Sean McCarthy wrote: >I realize I am pushing the Evil(tm) perspective on all this. > >But to address the point Whistling in the Dark made first: > > Your example doesn't involve a product release and therefore >is less relevant. Now....I realize that many companies do believe >it's better to ship a bad product than to delay and ship a good >product. Ah, but my example involved an upgrade to an existing service versus recreating the existing service. However. You've missed the crux of my example: There isn't the time for existing personnel to up and revise/rewrite/relayout a product rushed out the gate, nor time for new personnel to come in, be trained and decide *how* to revise/rewrite/relayout said product. The person who makes that possible was unavailable. Or would you prefer a second edition that was substantially inferior to the first edition? Or even "no better." Frankly, the first edition isn't a bad product. We *are* playing it, after all. It's got plenty of stuff to be revised, yes. But that's no excuse to revise it half-assed. Life happens. > I happen to be a programmer and a perfectionist. I do not >claim to be a Harvard MBA like the managers of my company. Just a >caveman programmer. I do not undertand your ... analysis. But what >I do know is this: I don't believe that revisions to existing Bad >Books will ever happen. I most definitely do not believe this >anymore. Heh. Well, here's my take on the thing: IN could have been revised. But it wasn't. It could also have been canceled. "Sorry. We may reprint in two years, but sales are just too slow. It took too long to sell this print run out." But it wasn't. The act of reprinting is an act of faith in the line. It says "hey, we can still make some money from this thing." That means new stuff can still come out. And yes, that means that old books can be revised some day. Do you have *any* idea how many times the GURPS core rules are reprinted in between revisions? And that's on a line that sells in the top ten consistantly. Trust me, if Steve Jackson can make money revising the core rules, he will. If he can make money on a new supplement to replace Heaven, Hell and the Marches when those sell out, he will. Steve Jackson likes money. It smells good and spices up a room. But he's not *going* to make money if he does things without organization, without attention to detail, and without knowing when to change course when the water level goes down unexpectedly. It doesn't mean I like the result of it, but I understand it. > If H&H were to sell out and the question of reprint or revise >came up, what would happen? Would we find out the print buyer was >in a coma from some bad punch at the last office party and since no >one knew what the prices for a different page count would be, ithe >decision defaulted to 'do what we did last time' again? > > To put it mildly...ARGH! Um... we're talking about a game, here. Put down the mallard and slowly back away from it. Thaaat's it.... > Well, I've spit enough acid for the time being. I'm going to >go try to relax as I read one of my two copies of Superiors 2. A >consequence of preordering from both FLGSs... Doesn't everyone have two copies? >Sean > >* Regarding Microsoft vs Blizzard, I am aware that metaphor can be >turned a few different ways. I will credit everyone here with enough >intelligence to know what I meant. Well, I've heard of Starcraft and Warcraft and Diablo, but that's essentially all I know about Blizzard, so I haven't any clue what your metaphor means. Um, sorry. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:25:23 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Politics From: Justin Buhler > I just recently asked myself this question (For one reason or another) and > still haven't been able to come up with a significant answer, so I thought > I'd share my dilemna. What political affliations are the Celetial realms > (Being Heaven and Hell) controlled by? well, i don't know if there's a more appropriate political term for them, but i see both places as being meritocracies. if you're good enough, you'll get favoured servitor status. if you're really good, you'll catch a Word. and if you're *really* good, you can use that Word to get to superior status. the seraph council won't let anyone who doesn't have the talent get to the higher echelons of power (or rather, as they'd probably rather think of it, they make sure everyone's working at an appropriate level to their abilities). in hell, while there's always the "Random Lucifer" factor of getting Words et al, i doubt that any demon who isn't a mean SOB will last more than five minutes with a Word before getting pounced on liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:39:56 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> chico latino From: Earl Wajenberg > Mithraism was one of the most popular of the pagan cults in the Roman > Empire. It was based on worship of the sun god, Mithras, who like any > good pagan god, represented a wide variety of things. He was a god of > light, war, justice, faith, and contract. Mithras is usually represented > as a human and is associated with the Greek sun god Helios and the Roman > god, Sol Invictus. thanks for the info, dude, but to be honest i was already fairly aware of the Big M. the mithradites were one of the (many) weirdo cults i had running around in the occasional "conspiracy" LRPs i've run over the years. in IN terms, i'd guess that mithraism would be one of those religions that gave essence to heaven rather than creating ethereals (i don't know if it has been mentioned as such in the GMG as i *still* haven't gotten round to buying it yet. sigh) sol invictus sounded similar to mithras, being another soldier's solar mystery religion and all (probably not too many more of them kicking around), but having only read brief summaries along the lines of who/what/when in a couple of books, i was wondering if anyone knew much about them (or good sources for information) i was thinking of using them in two different settings, both in a modern setting; a gaiman-inspired "urban fantasy" LRP i've had on the boil for a while, and in IN as a possible cult of Soldiers working for a servitor of Gabriel liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:54:29 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Animal Language's From: Ryan Elias - -> You know... I think I'd be inclined to disagree. I think it's fairly > easy to underestimate the "cause no dissonance in animal form" ability > of those sneaky Jordinians that's the way i've always seen it. servitors of jordi can basically kill humans anytime they want, without fear of reprisal. poachers causing trouble? oops, they got eaten by a lion. whalers getting greedy? wait till they're on a fishing trip, then it's "shark attack time". nasty corporation types polluting the environment? what a shame, the chairman appears to have contracted a nasty blood disease via a mosquito bite... not to say that jordi's lot go around killing humans all the time, but if there are any pesky people they want out of the way (including soldiers) they can do it without attracting celestial attention. pretty handy. liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:54:56 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy From: Earl Wajenberg > Here are my own guesses as to who created whom, among the Superiors. this reminds me of something i've always wondered about in regards to the creation of angels. most are created by their superiors, right? so do their creators feel any kind of familial connection to their servitors. obviously, things are different for celestials as opposed to humans, but do the archangels consider their creations to be something akin to their children? and do angels look up to their superiors as not just "the boss" but also "mum"? liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:00:56 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy At 10:54 PM +0100 5/1/00, Liam Astley wrote: >From: Earl Wajenberg > > Here are my own guesses as to who created whom, among the Superiors. > >this reminds me of something i've always wondered about in regards to the >creation of angels. most are created by their superiors, right? so do their >creators feel any kind of familial connection to their servitors. obviously, >things are different for celestials as opposed to humans, but do the >archangels consider their creations to be something akin to their children? >and do angels look up to their superiors as not just "the boss" but also >"mum"? I do a good amount of that, in my Game -- at least when the Superior actually used some of his or her own Forces in the creation. When they're all gathered from the Symphony, then there isn't that same connection. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 5:56:23 +0800 From: John "The Apocalypse"Kuan Subject: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism 2 Dear Ben , Sidley and Neel - - in reply to your previous message - Ben mentioned : >In fact, Snowcrash is just a book about a washed up Ofanite who's using >computer terminals in an epic battle that will decide if Heaven, Hell, or >mankind controls the Ethereal Plane. Yes , I had considered that the Ethereal plane be and extention of Cyberspace - from there I find the possibilities absolutely limitless. :Seed: Celestials dive into Cyberspace and discover something they never wanted to find... Perhaps something that may cause the War to hang on a string?: :Seed: This is and idea that worked for me - I borrowed a AD&D campaign and I converted it into a futuristic setting - I wanted a really chivalrous and technological setting - so for example - a pack of wolves became a gang called the Wolves ... A puppet show became a holographic protogen show ... The Castles became ruins of old corporations decayed after Armageddon ... The possibilty is boundless and ridiculously fun! Another one ... " I pull out my Katana ... and sidestep to dive the sword into his chest!" becomes ... " I plant the explosive under his toilet bowl... problem solved..." But as far as making Vapula redeem himself in this Dark Victory [ My campaign entitled Synth-Eon Black] is something which I have left completely aside - mainly becuase the Infernal have the EDGE in cybernetic technology. The alloys and techtonics coming mainly from experimentation coming from the 5 force David of Stone left tortured in Vapula's chambers Cybernetikos does have its downside though ... Entitled : the Kombinat... I have developed a system - where a mortal , ethereal being or a celestial can only take a particular ammount of Cybernetic development before it loses its link with the physical SELF - and becomes absolutely machine : Humanity is the closeness from the mortal level to the celestial or ethereal level. This determines how much a vessel can take before it loses 'humanity' which causes the entity to lose part or even full control of its vessel. The Choir / Band list is as such: Add Vessal Level to Base Humanity to determine - Humanity Level Choir/Band - Base Humanity Level Seraphim / Balseraphim -0 Cherubim / Djinn -1 Ofanim / Calabim -2 Elohim / Habbalah -3 Ethereal Spirits -3 Malakim / Lilim -4 Kyriotates / Shedim -* Mercurian / Impudites-5 Mortal / Undead -6 Kyriotate and Shedite Rules Kyriotates and Shedim must substract humanity the humanity level of the host when making resonance role when taking a cybernetic host - the only exception being in Kyriotates of Lightning and Shedim of Technology. The Grasp If more that 60% of humanity is used - roll for willpower to determine the CONTROL of the action - failure results in substracting check digit of roll in the actions target number and adding the check digit in the actions check digit [number may not exceed 6]. If such an ACTION is failed more than the rounded up level of humanity - then the vessel loses control of that cybernetic part. Check Digit 1 - Powers Down - inability to use [ - cybernetic part's level in all agility rolls ] 2 - Powers Down - inability to use [ - cybernetic part's level in all agility rolls ] 3 - Remains Powered but inactive - Drains uselessly [ - cybernetic part's level in all strength and agility rolls ] 4 - Control Remains but Hyperpowered - causes all actions to become hyper. [Add part's cybernetic level to all physical check digits ,Substract level for target numbers.] 5 - Chain Reactive - Cybernetic Part causes other cybernetic parts to lose control - make willpower roll to determine if this happens - if failed , check digit = to maximum number of parts going haywire] 6 - Short Circuit - Cybernetic Part not only goes inactive - but causes a short burt of power through its vessel. [Make Strength roll - if sucess - then the energy is neutralised - take stun. If fail , take Cybernetic Part's level + check digit body damage! If Check digit is 6 - then the part will explode!] [Note : look guys - if you intend to use these rules - could you at least like give me SOME credit and send me a postcard or something :D John Kuan 10 Chankat Ria , Mount Pleasure Batu Ferringhi Pulau Pinang 11100 Malaysia It would be damn cool to see some other cybernuts/in-nominites out there :D] The rules as such are incomplete - I have not had time so far to add cybernetic and neural-biotic resonance- I have balanced the War by developing another system for the Divine - this will be the VO-Alpha units ... Voidal Operators , harnessed beings working from within the edges of limbo. We'll save that for anyone wanting to hear me rant! - ---- We have started to LARP this setting - and being my first time GMing - was really taken up by the participation of the players! We should write a supplement huh? I want to hear some playtesting of my rules going on - to use cybernetics - try looking for the Darker Days Free RPG system - I'm using the equipment adlibed to suit my campaign. Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus... John "The Yo'Pocalypse" Kuan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:11:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books At 5:14 PM -0400 5/1/00, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >That's a bit harsh, when you don't know what the full business >decision and reasoning was (and neither does Beth, I suspect). Amen. >Nor do >we know what this means -- maybe they're doing a full print run. >Maybe they're doing a small print run to "tide things over." I _heard_ it was the latter. (I certainly agitated for that.) (I mean, when I heard that they were doing a reprint, I was frankly pretty disappointed and let down too. I've been looking forward to revising the thing as much as people have been looking forward to getting the revision. I even offered to pull off a revision in less than a month. O:> ) >Oh, and if Sean Punch were killed by a drunk driver, you'd better be >*sure* GURPS stuff would go on hold. The worst thing you can do is >lose a team member and let the system go on in automatic. Can you say, "Revelations Cycle"? I knew you could. At 2:31 PM -0700 5/1/00, Sean McCarthy wrote: > If H&H were to sell out and the question of reprint or revise came up, >what would happen? It would probably go out of print till it could be dealt with, because -- and this is a big point -- it's not THE main book. You don't need H&H to play the game. You _do_ need the main book. A main book. At least one with errata corrections. Basically, as I noted, the choice was: #1: Reprint main book (with errata corrections) #2: Let main book go out of print so that no new people can pick up the book or know how to play all the old stuff. Bear in mind that the first printing of IN was, IIRC, some 20,000 books. I own about 5 of them. Even if all other 19,995 of those are owned by distinct individuals, how many of them are buying each additional book? Can't be all of them -- the main book's the first time any have gone OOP, and all the rest have had smaller print runs. Basically, from what few numbers I've seen and what little theory I've evolved (which may be entirely wrong!), if the main book goes OOP for too long (for whatever value of too long is, and I feel it is probably short)... The rest of the books' sales will nosedive. If everything nosedives, I think I can guarentee that the line will die unless I get independantly wealthy enough to subsidize the ones I like. (Which, mind, I'd love to do. If everyone sends me about $100, I might be able to invest it appropriately... *ahem*) So -- which do you want? An entirely dead line, or a second printing that can continue to pull in _some_ people (*) so that the other books will keep selling? (* Let's just not _go_ into the "lost opportunity" stuff -- we'd all just be pulling numbers out of our heads.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 16:59:45 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books > If H&H were to sell out and the question of reprint or revise came up, >what would happen? Would we find out the print buyer was in a coma from >some bad punch at the last office party and since no one knew what the >prices for a different page count would be, ithe decision defaulted to 'do >what we did last time' again? There are several different types of "reprints" here. First is what we call a "restock reprint". In this case, we're reprinting the book before (or ever-so-slightly after--bad timing does play a role) we run out of copies in the warehouse. Minor errors are corrected, but major revisions aren't done. Then there's the "easy reprint". This is something that's been OOP for a while, so we're going to take the time to fix the known errors, even if that means reformatting the text. Finally, there's the "hard reprint"; this is something that's not *quite* a new edition, but we're certainly treating it as a substantially-changed product. Art may be reordered, the layout may change, and other significant alterations will take place. In some cases, how the game is packaged is changed as well. (For instance, the various Ogre reprints this year are all being classed as "hard reprints".) If the book has been OOP for quite some time, is highly in demand, and has enough basic problems that we think a reprint won't fix them, *then* we commission a new edition. A new edition is treated essentially as a wholly new product, taking a much greater amount of time and effort, all around, than a comparable reprint would require. To take an example: When Knightmare Chess first came out, some of the cards had flaws that weren't apparent until certain trouble-makers (Andrew raises his hand) exploited them mercilessly. They also had nifty graphical icons that, nifty though they were, didn't really add anything to the card design. So, they went ahead and created a second edition. They removed the icons, somewhat redesigned the cards, and fixed the known problems. They also tweaked the rules a little bit. Coming up in August (at present--don't quote me) is a reprint of the second edition of Knightmare Chess. Any further errata we've compiled-- (makes mental note to jostle the KC guy and find out why it hasn't been posted to the page) - --will be repaired, but that's it. The cards will otherwise be identical. A reprint of In Nomine will take probably about half a day's work down in Production, to fix the known editing errors and possibly some of the gameplay errors as well, then it will go off to the printer. A new edition would require months, including rewriting, re-editing, playtesting, and so forth. That is something that you don't want to undertake while your line editor is under the knife. Given that we *do* want to have the IN core book available, and we *couldn't* do a new edition under the circumstances, a reprint is the only viable option. - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:07:02 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books At 6:11 PM -0400 5/1/00, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >Oh, and if Sean Punch were killed by a drunk driver, you'd better be > >*sure* GURPS stuff would go on hold. The worst thing you can do is > >lose a team member and let the system go on in automatic. > >Can you say, "Revelations Cycle"? I knew you could. The Revelations Cycle came about when Sean Punch was killed by a drunk driver? That means *he's* the Holiest Man on Earth? Oh man, do *I* have some dogmatic errors somewhere... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:13:59 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books > Return-Path: andrew@sjgames.com > A reprint of In Nomine will take probably about half a day's work down in > Production, to fix the known editing errors and possibly some of the > gameplay errors as well, then it will go off to the printer. A new edition > would require months, including rewriting, re-editing, playtesting, and so > forth. That is something that you don't want to undertake while your line > editor is under the knife. Given that we *do* want to have the IN core > book available, and we *couldn't* do a new edition under the circumstances, > a reprint is the only viable option. I wouldn;t say it is the *only* viable option. The option I would have prefered is a small reprint order now, with a plan for a 2nd ed Real Soon Now, with the given timing constraints. That would cost more, but would have been the best choice IMO. *shrug* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:11:06 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Pushing Books Ian, on Steve: >But he's not *going* to make money if he does things without >organization, without attention to detail, and without knowing when >to change course when the water level goes down unexpectedly. Believe me, Steve is second to NO MAN on his attention to detail. Except maybe me. :-) He's organized, too, which puts him well *past* me as far as getting things done goes. (The first day I worked here, he told me I had too many piles of paper on my desk, marched to the supplies, and returned with several hanging file folders. "Use them," he said, in a tone brooking no disagreement. (At this time, I had *three* piles of paper on my desk, two of which were employment paperwork and "stuff you should take home and read tonight". Which I did.) Although the decision was made before I arrived, I know Steve didn't just flip a coin and decide to reprint rather than do a new edition based on heads-vs.-tails. It was not a decision made lightly. - -- Andrew Hackard /\ "My money and my Promotional Writer /()\ [CENSORED] go to Steve Jackson Games / \ Illuminati University" andrew@sjgames.com /______\ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:57:08 PDT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Literary sources,the GMG, etc. I do not own the GMG (yet), so I did not know it had a section on flavoring one's IN campaign with a slant toward particular traditions. Earl Wajenberg: I would like to see your modifications. If you don't post them could you please send them to me privately? (As I may have mentioned before, whenever I try to write you privately your e-mail provider spits me back out because I use Hotmail.) Janet Anderson dorigen@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:13:30 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> RE: Players and Supplements >From: "Sean McCarthy" says: >Perry said... > > > > I dunno. Maybe I just got a taste of something I liked in the story in >the > > beginning of the Core book and I'm left hungering for more of the same >in >a > > quantity that's greater than a couple pages in a few supplements. > > > > I know that was my feeling. I read everything that ever got put on >the >web, starting years back. I loved it! When IN was coming out, my friends >and I pre-registered for the IN Tournament slated to be held at the next >convention. > >Then, as those of you who have been into this for a while recall, the game >didn't come out. Yup. Tell me about it. >A long time passed and then ... a different game came out. > >I liked that one too, but it's pretty much a matter of record that A >Bright >Dream and A Dark Dream were written with a very different game in mind. It's strange, I never really noticed that before, but I can see that. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:29:42 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism - > > Has anyone written anything about Cybernetics in the world of In Nomine. >I've started a new campaigned based on Gaijins's Dark Victory - set in a >cyberpunk future. Jean's position is taken over by his "proteage" MOD - >Acscendant of Lightning. > > Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? > >Cyberpunk In Nomine. > >Jean (or his replacement) and Vapula would be much, much more powerful. >Especially Vapula. > >Angels and Demons would be mighty indeed, since their vessels could come >complete with the very best in Heavenly cybernetics -- all wired to explode >if tampered with, to avoid it falling into mortal hands. > >The organization of Angels and Demons would be a terrible thing to behold. >Imagine wiring every angel with a transmitter so they can communicate on a >frequency mankind can't pick up. Even worse: Imagine wiring every DEMON >with a transmitter... (Matrix inspired): Upon being born, every human in the world has a transmitter implanted in them. A new DP has arisen, Zalmonah, DP of Domination From then on, Shedim of Vapula are able to possess any person from anywhere. His Princepality in Hell is nothing more than a Gigantic Mainframe, the human souls he collects merely add to its energy source, the human souls so completely dominated that their essence is ready as needed to fuel it. Shedim of Domination are capable of moving easily from any human being with a chip to any other. Best of all, Demons who are attain a Distinction gain access to the big prize, access to the Mainframe's senses, namely access to what every single human being (with a chip) is seeing/experiencing at all times. Now, that's a Dark Future in my book. Highly unlikely, tragic, and places heaven and any who oppose Zalmonah at great risk. Anyway . . . I'll go back to my cybernetic weasels now . . . - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:33:00 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> RE: Players and Supplements >From: Whistling in the Dark >>>This is one of the cases where canon would actually be helpful instead of >>>an active hinderance, like it tends to be. >> >>Even I, the anti-canon, can get behind this. > >Is an Anti-Canon an Anglican Minister who follows the Anti-Christ? > >And even I, a pro-canon, thinks this is by far the most effective >types of Canon. Which means Perry, Em and I agree on something. That >*has* to be worth doughnuts all around. Wait, what does, the definition of the very first pronoun used has been lost!! (crap, I have no idea what I'm agreeing with) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:36:48 -0400 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> Genealogy > From: "Liam Astley" > this reminds me of something i've always wondered about in regards to the > creation of angels. most are created by their superiors, right? so do their > creators feel any kind of familial connection to their servitors. obviously, > things are different for celestials as opposed to humans, but do the > archangels consider their creations to be something akin to their children? > and do angels look up to their superiors as not just "the boss" but also > "mum"? This varies from Superior to Superior. The way I tend to deal with it is by considering where the Forces come from. If the Superior just uses whatever Forces are floating around, putting them together and calling it a Celestial, there's less of a "family connection" than if said Superior uses some of his own personal Forces in building the Celestial. This is why all Lillim are "Daughters of Lilith." They were created with at least one Force that had been a part of her. Mason This .sig exists solely to inform that this is not necessarily cannon. So there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:39:20 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> RE: Players and Supplements >From: Emily Dresner > > At least GURPS has world-books . . . In Nomine needs specific setting >books, > > maybe entire versions of the game in print. I feel that the main >selling > > point of the White Wolf game *is* its setting. The books seem to boil >over > > with setting, storys, and flavor. And while, yes, the Storyteller >always > > reserves the right to change things, s/he's got a LOT of setting to >build > > upon, complete with lots and lots of great descriptions of how *how* the > > game world "feels" . . . > >Exactly. Thanks for understanding my point -- and using a different game >system to work from. Hey, zero sweat. :) I guess I would view the next question as being: Should SJGames' In Nomine be about flavor or game mechanics? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:32:16 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> chico latino From: > Invictus means 'the Conqueror.' The cult of Sol Invictus would be the cult of > the Conquering Sun.... All I remember is that they were a soldiers' mystery > religion, based on some of the bastardized Greco-egyptian Re-Helios mixes. From: O. S. Kerr > Do you have the etymology for this one? > I believed it to mean "The Unconquered." both sound pretty cool, though i guess it could put a different slant on it depending on which one you used... liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 16:42:20 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine : Cybernetics and Cyberpunkesque Terrorism - I am in the midst of writing some rules and background for In Nomine Cyberpunk... When I finish them, I'll post them to the list. What I have so far is a half-coherent history of the world up to 2020 - here you go. - -Robert - ----------- IN NOMINE Cyberpunk History and Setting Everyone wondered what Eli was up to when he skipped out of Heaven in 1957. He was seen around Earth and the Marches, never seeming to be doing much, and whenever he was questioned about his actions, he’d just smile. In retrospect, it was pretty clear that Eli had a significant hand in the cultural revolution during the sixties, but no one in Heaven or Hell knew just what the Archangel of Creation was up to. In 2002, that changed, when Eli – or rather a network of programmers Eli had been encouraging – unveiled the next generation of the Internet, Cyberspace as only Gibson could have imagined it. It was clear, finally, why the Internet had been so resistant to tampering by celestial forces – it, as the forerunner to cyberspace, was under Eli’s protection, and now his plans had come to fruition. The human creators of cyberspace, products of a net-culture that abhorred monopolistic corporate influence had created their cyberspace – and the software that allowed humanity to access it – as open-source freeware. They thought they were ushering in a new age of information freedom and transit. They were wrong. Within two weeks, every single one of the original team that created cyberspace was dead, missing, or had spontaneously joined a large computer corporation. The few surviving members of the team retracted their open source agreement under suspicious circumstances and the corporations immediately began marketing cyberspace for themselves and for the consumers. The second part of the Gibsonian vision had come true – domineering megacorporations gained incredible power overnight, and soon it was the corps, not the government, that set policy. It took about eight years for the cyber-revolution to really catch on – 2010 is thought to be the beginning of the real era of the net, as it was then that the last link in the global network of optic cables and satellites was finally completed. A new age had dawned, and it had ‘corporation’ written all over it. Humanity thought that cyberspace was just a brilliant technological innovation. It was, but that wasn’t everything to it. When a runner jacked into the net, he was entering a huge new glittering domain in the Marches that ran straight down the middle of the Vale. When the creators of the net proclaimed cyberspace as the fulfillment of humanity’s hopes and dreams, they were right – the net was one giant dreamscape anyone could get into if they just had a cyberdeck. On the celestial side of things, the Corporeal Song of Dreams suddenly became very popular, as it allowed celestials to enter the net without jacking in. With Dream Walking or the Songs of Dreams, celestials could become ‘Ghosts,’ entities in the net without any kind of locator. Celestials were not the only Ghosts, however. Where a celestial needs a song or attunement to enter cyberspace without jacking in, an ethereal spirit needs only to make a perception roll. Relatively soon after the birth of cyberspace, human authorities started to get very suspicious about the number of Ghosts in the net. Some ethereals took advantage of human confusion to pass themselves off as rogue intelligences created by a Ghost in the Shell-style amalgation of computers. Corps and Governments built computers for them – effectively mechanical vessels – and the first AIs were ‘born’. Neither Heaven nor Hell was pleased, as the corps started to hunt and capture Ghosts in order to create more AI systems. In a moment of rare cooperation, both camps declared Ghosting off-limits to their servitors. Heaven went one step further and started hunting down Ethereals in the net and physically destroying AIs on earth. Hell, on the other hand, covertly supports certain allied ethereals wreaking havoc in cyberspace and likes having friends as AIs. Rumors exist of angelic or demonic AIs, but these are yet to be substantiated. Back on the human side of things, the by far most powerful force in the world are the corps, backed by money and influence. Two sorts of groups oppose them. One glamorized group are the philosophical descendants of cyberspace’s creators, independent cyber-cowboys who do odd jobs for private individuals and the underworld. These net jockeys often spend their free time targeting the corps and waging a guerilla war for control over cyberspace. There is also a rising faction of Luddite technophobes who seek the destruction of cyberspace. Speaking of the underworld, crime is rampant as designer drugs and cyberware proliferate. Rising unemployment as machines replace men in worldwide production forces wages down for those of the lower classes still employed, so many turn to work feeding the lusts of the decadent corporate executives. In BAMA, Greater Tokyo, Seattle Metroplex, the Coast, and London gang wars are common in the rubble of the inter-city as the downtrodden struggle over society’s scraps. The more sophisticated criminals send street-samurai assassins at each other and pay outlaw net runners to steal corporate secrets for sale on the black market. Through this twisted urban nightmare the War between Heaven and Hell keeps on going at breakneck speed. Corps are influenced by one side or the other as the two domains struggle for control over cyberspace and the collective minds of humanity it contains. Superiors not pleased with megalithic corporate dominance encourage the rebellious fringe of society, and some Archangels work to topple cyberspace, feeling it is leading humanity towards its fate. While Ghosting is officially banned, celestials still battle it out in cyberspace by more conventional means, jacking in and then using their superior skills to fight among the raw data of cyberspace. A more mundane kind of battle occurs on the streets, where demons may try to terminate an angel’s link to the net in a rather permanent fashion. Yet a third kind of warfare exists in the corps, as angels try to fight the losing battle against greed and corruption. The year is 2020. Corporations rule the Earth. Cyberspace, which Heaven hoped would unite the hopes and dreams of humanity, is becoming a tool of oppression. Mankind is doing Hell’s job for it, driving the Symphony towards its fate in the name of Progress. Heaven and Hell are still struggling over this dystopian world, but it may be that there will be nothing left of it by the time one is the victor. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1604 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.