From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 15 01:06:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10710 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 01:06:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id BAA08892 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 2000 01:05:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:05:26 -0500 Message-Id: <200005150605.BAA08892@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1626 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1626 In this digest: IN> In Nomine Tarot Re: IN> Another In Nomine crossover Re: IN> Another In Nomine crossover RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) IN> A few things RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> A few things RE: IN> A few things Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Re: IN> A few things RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> A few things Re: IN> A few things Re: IN> A few things Re: IN> A few things Re: IN> A few things RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:27:34 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> In Nomine Tarot For all you wacky Tarot/IN people, check out what I came acrosss (and please forgive me if I'm repeating previously posted information: its the 111 that caught my eye. :) (from http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/tarot.htm) Key 0 - THE FOOL - The Primum Mobile Acting Through Air on the Zodiac. Zero relates to Unmanifest Deity, a boundless circle of the pulsating, vibrant, yet undifferentiated Life-force that has neither beginning nor end. It symbolizes boundless space and limitless time in eternity, rendering the Fool a representation of the unknown before it comes into manifestation, the forerunner of Thought, absolute Superconsciousness. The letter Aleph, is given to the 11th Path and the Fool, and the 11th Path is termed the "Scintillating or Fiery Intelligence" as it "perfectly reflects the first outflow of the spiritual influence of Kether." It is therefore the spark of life radiating from the Source and permeating all things, animate or inanimate. Aleph means "Ox" or "Bull," but more specifically it symbolizes creative power or raw force. In antiquity, oxen were the primary motivation for the development of agriculture which, in turn, formed the beginnings of civilization. The Bull was used as one of the earliest symbols of God, especially in the Taurean Age, which immediately preceded the development of Jewish monotheism. In Hebrew, the word for "Intelligence" is Saykel (ShKL) which also means insight or awareness. The word combines the root soke (ShK) which means "to dwell with" and kole (KL) which means "all" or "the whole." The inference is that the Intelligences on the Tree each represent a category of God which is an abode (Shk) of God’s entire being (KL). Kether is called "the Wonder" (PLA) or the Wonderful or Admirable Intelligence. It is the root of the entire Tree, and directly from it issue the letters Aleph, Beth, and Gimel. Through word play, the Wonder (PLA) of Kether reflects itself immediately into Aleph (ALP), the first letter, as a mirror does -- that is backwards, or PLA = ALP. Aleph has a numerical value of one; Kether is also One. The word Aleph spelled out equals 111, and the Wonderful (PLA) Intelligence (Kether) is also 111. The famous saying, "The Lord our God is One," has a value of 111, and Crowley notes that the word Aum (the vibration of everything) when spelled out, also equals 111. Aleph is a mother letter representing the Element of Air. Its first two letters spell out the word AL or "God," and if we examine the root of Aleph (ALP) we see it combines the idea of God with the letter Peh, the archetype of the mouth or speech. Thus, from Aleph, we get the idea of the Divine Expression of God or the Life Breath manifesting through the element of Air. In Qabalistic Tarot, Aleph means the primary Life-power which moves everything through the power of Breath (Spirit). The Fool represents the idea of the original seed of all potential, united with the primal God-energy, and relates to that which is all-potent but has no form, for its number is zero -- the absence of quantity, quality and mass. Therefore, zero is boundless and signifies unlimited potential. Traditionally, this number represents the entrance of undifferentiated Spirit into matter, making the Path of the Fool the potentiality of thought. ********* - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:40:11 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Another In Nomine crossover >it's feudal Heaven versus Stalinist Hell...). I tend to veiw Heaven as the planned economy and Hell as the free market. Ashley Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:27:06 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Another In Nomine crossover > I tend to veiw Heaven as the planned economy and Hell as the free market. If you view Heaven as a sort of kibbutzy, planned economy, and view Hell as a monopolistic 1890's American free market, you would be close to the impression given by the books. "Planned economy" tends to convey a lack of individuality and a corresponding lack of effectiveness, but Heaven is clearly populated by extremely talented, highly effective, often individualistic angels, and there are few, if any, examples of angels in Heaven who rise above their level of competence. "Free market" tends to convey a sense of goodness where the best rises to the top, like its a meritocracy, but Hell is clearly a place where those who are best get destroyed by jealous Superiors, and only the brutal and strong and LUCKY -- which isn't necessary "best" -- survive, and then they set themselves up as tyrants... resulting in a "planned economy" of petty oligarchs. Just my $15.99 on the terms. Words can be deceptive, especially politically charged phrases like "planned economy" (which Heaven may be, but only in a positive sense) and "free market" (which Hell may be, but only in the ugliest sense.) > Ashley Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:15:26 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Elizabeth wrote: > >Even if Saints could be possessed, no Shedite is going to want such a > >resistant Host. (Remember they are all Blessed, which means they get to > >double their Will *every time* they resist the Shedite's urgings!) > > _This_ is true! *evil grin* wouldn't Shedim of Factions just _love_ discovering Saints? Once they're in, no Will rolls to control the host. Just jump in, ride them into the ground, screw with Heaven's plans and leave the halo-boys to clean up the mess ;> Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:25:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) At 9:15 PM +1000 5/14/00, Leath Sheales wrote: >Elizabeth wrote: > >> >Even if Saints could be possessed, no Shedite is going to want such a >> >resistant Host. (Remember they are all Blessed, which means they get to >> >double their Will *every time* they resist the Shedite's urgings!) >> >> _This_ is true! > >*evil grin* wouldn't Shedim of Factions just _love_ discovering Saints? >Once they're in, no Will rolls to control the host. Just jump in, ride them >into the ground, screw with Heaven's plans and leave the halo-boys to clean >up the mess ;> That's if they can make the Will roll to jump into them in the first place -- or, rather, if the host can't fight them off with _his_ Will roll (with appropriate modifiers for Blessed). I'd probably figure them for automatic lucid dreamers, though, which means that they'd be in the Marches, PO'ed, and making tracks for Blandine's Tower. (Shedite feels a tap on the shoulder. Malakite: "Excuse me, but you seem to be wearing something belonging to a friend." ) (Are they automatic lucid dreamers? CPG not really handy right now.) - --Beth, catching up as she can, typing with a baby (iolanthe) in her lap and no computer desk -- the keyboard shares the lap, and the trackball sits on a pile of GURPS books. I want the computer desk back! Moving is a hassle. (PS: may be typing with 1 hand, or even toe! Please forgive capitalization.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:18:06 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (Are they automatic lucid dreamers? CPG not really handy right now.) Yes. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:37:13 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Elizabeth wrote: > That's if they can make the Will roll to jump into them in the > first place -- or, rather, if the host can't fight them off with > _his_ Will roll (with appropriate modifiers for Blessed). I'd > probably figure them for automatic lucid dreamers, though, which > means that they'd be in the Marches, PO'ed, and making tracks > for Blandine's Tower. Granted, but I can just see Malphas having 'shock teams' of Shedim tasked with keeping a reasonably low profile while searching for heavenly Soldiers and especially Saints. When they find them, the entire group hits the poor sap with Celestial Songs of Charm, his or her Will drops to zero (double nothing in still nothing) and one of the Shedim move in. Then the group scatters and keeps running until the disturbance dies down and they can meet in a pre-arranged place. Then possessing Shedite dredges up the Saint's memories and makes as much damage as possible in the time he has. Unless the Saint has been revealing a lot more about his true nature than he should, the humans he has been helping with be left hurt, confused and more factionalised than ever before. > > (Shedite feels a tap on the shoulder. > Malakite: "Excuse me, but you seem to be wearing something belonging > to a friend." ) Shedite says to Malakite: "Yeah, what are you going to do about it?" Malakite proceeds to try and beat up Shedite, Shedite gets Saint's body shredded, Malakite has a lot of disturbance following him around (or maybe not, I can't remember if Saint's bodies count as human for Disturbance reasons) and Saint has an unhappy Archangel for allowing his Body to be taken and destroyed and his mission to be unravelled. More factions for Malphas!! > (Are they automatic lucid dreamers? CPG not really handy right now.) I honestly can't remember. If they are, the Saint has to get from his dreamscape without Beleth's demons intercepting him, and then convince the angel he finds that he's a Saint and needs to use Blandine's tower to contact his Archangel. "Yeah, sure buddy, I believe you're a Saint, but there are all kinds in the Marches and we wouldn't want Heaven to be compromised, would we? We'll just sit nice and quietly while my partner finds a Seraph. Shouldn't take more than an hour or two." If not, the Saint has to sit tight in the dreamscape and wait for an angel to notice he's in there and care, or wait until the Shedite is finished. And I'm guessing that a Shedite could hold onto a Saint for a long time, since they can start the corruption _really_ small, and work up to _really_ big. If you want your Shedim to be really nasty, have some of them follow the Saint into the Marches and kick his Ethereal butt as soon as he arrives. The poor Saint is going to have a lot of misery before it gets better. Leath (just 'cause they're demons doesn't mean they have to be dumb). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:18:24 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . B(alseraph) R(eporter): "Good evening folks, I'm Geraldo Fransisco Hearst the 3rd, and this is the Nightly NNN report." He shuffles some papers with his tail. BR: "In tonight's headlines, the Dread Princess of Cuteness was seen purchasing several items in Shal-Mari. Sources close to NNN state that the preported gifts are inteded for her Dreadness, the Demon Princess of Nitpicking. . ." He shuffles some more papers. Demon Princess of Cute: "I'm Cute!" BR: "We'll fill you in with more details as they become available to us here at NNN. This has been Geraldo Fransisco Hearst the 3rd saying, Good Night!." - - - From those of us who care enough to send the very best (or scare enough to send the hairy beast), Happy Mother's Day Beth! Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:39:35 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> What the Demon Princess of Cute did today. . . At 9:18 PM -0500 05/14/00, Tafka J. wrote: >preported gifts are inteded for her Dreadness, the Demon Princess of ^^^^^^^ For those of you out there looking for that elusive Nitpicking Essence, it's 'intended'. I, uhmn, did it on purpose. Yeah, yeah. That's the ticket! };;;> Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:47:46 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) > ...I'd > probably figure them for automatic lucid dreamers, though, which > means that they'd be in the Marches, PO'ed, and making tracks > for Blandine's Tower. O_o I don't have all of my books with me (moved across the country again - long story), so I can't check it up, but I don't recall this bit of trivia - that lucid dreamers went to the Marches when they were possessed by a Shedite. This seems to be something of a strong disadvantage, no? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:02:23 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) EDG wrote: > I don't have all of my books with me (moved across the country > again - long > story), so I can't check it up, but I don't recall this bit of > trivia - that > lucid dreamers went to the Marches when they were possessed by a Shedite. > This seems to be something of a strong disadvantage, no? AFAIK, this is only a question for Shedim of Factions. All other Shedim share their hosts (therefore no dreaming) but Factions completely displace their hosts mind, therefore they don't have to fight. I'm not sure from memory if Shedim of Factions displace their hosts minds to the Marches, or whether they just suppress the host so much that the human mind is still present and dreamily watching, but can do absolutely nothing about it. Unless someone has the IPG or CPG close to hand, it'll have to wait until I get home. Leath (whose evil little mind is starting to appreciate Shedim of Factions a lot more). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:03:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) EDG wrote: > I don't have all of my books with me (moved across the country again - long> story), so I can't check it up, but I don't recall this bit of trivia - that> lucid dreamers went to the Marches when they were possessed by a Shedite.> This seems to be something of a strong disadvantage, no? Only for Shedim of Factions. But it's paradoxes like this that make Saints difficult to adjudicate sometimes -- they're kind of like celestials, and kind of like humans. But when in doubt, I'd say they follow the same rules as celestials for the most part. In terms of their true natures, they're basically angels with human souls. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 04:33:23 +0100 From: "mink" Subject: IN> A few things Just a couple of things... 1) Folks have mentioned the [splatbooks] and i'm curious as to how i can get them. if any one can help me in this matter i'd be more than grateful. 2) Recently i found some books in my cupboard that were by Borris Vallejo, i'd forgotten that i had them, but i've now found that there is a large amount of his work that is great for demons. and a few that are ok as angels as well. some of ya was kind enough to point me in the direction of the In Nomine art, so i am returning the favour by pionting you to the most influental modern artist. {insert BV http details here} 3) Maher story, most excellent indeed, but what about the Elohite, or is that another story? 4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? angels demons or both? which superior would it come under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what Chior/Band would be better to serve it? 5) Re: vapulan soldiers. hmm.. if i was vap i'd create an online game where the players control simulated human death machines, but the simulations human death machines (S.H.D.M) are really cloned bodies fully fitted out with all the story book cyberware and total manga-esque bio-genetic enhancements, with a micro chip for a brain, each time a 'player' logs off of the net the SHDM teleports back to a lab for repairs or what ever. then to the online game i would intergrate structured story lines where the SHDM are an elite unit that fight for freedom from the opressive 'alien menace from above'. when a SHDM gets killed the player merely selects a new 'drone' to control. with nybass doing the press release stuff i think the game would be an immense hit. Even saminga might get in on the act and sponser it for a while. Then the cult followers would hold conventions and the demon of [online killer gaming] would get even more power, the very best players may even get a bonus from the guys below, something like... a mega computer, with fully integrated SHDM controls and special weapons for the SHDM. in time the best of the best would come about and they may get made into soldiers of hell without realizing it... "i'd promise my soul if i could get to be the best at the damned game....." SHDM cert (18), coming to a games store near you soon....... hmm.. i think Orc would strongly oppose such a game, as would Jean. and just think of the merchandising.. marc might like that bit of it ((wow, i got an adventure idea.....)) 6) What superior would be able to give the word of [bad dice rolls] and what band would uphold that word best? 7) Seeing as Fluerity has dominion over drugs, does he get all the caffeine addicts as well? ((oh lord help us roleplayers... so many demons with word that are biased against us)) 8) how would each of the AAs and DPs react to a circus.. your thoughts on this please! ok, thats me all done with. };-) Colgarothialmes, Demon of Damnation, Shedite with a keyboard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:45:11 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Our spies report that on 11:37 PM 5/14/00 +1000, Leath Sheales said: >"Yeah, sure buddy, I believe you're a Saint, but there are all kinds in the >Marches and we wouldn't want Heaven to be compromised, would we? We'll just >sit nice and quietly while my partner finds a Seraph. Shouldn't take more >than an hour or two." While there are some good points there, let me address this one... I would think Saints can speak in high celestial, which means that when they say "I am a Saint working on direct orders from the General himself and I must speak with him immediately." it comes out in that absolute literal truth sort of way. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:53:05 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> A few things mink wrote: > 4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? angels demons or both? which > superior would it come under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what Chior/Band > would be better to serve it? Balseraph of Astrology, Fallen Seraph of Astronomy, Servitor of Kronos. Teaches people to let the stars guide their fates -- they are helpless to resist the influence of the heavens upon their lives. > 6) What superior would be able to give the word of [bad dice rolls] and what > band would uphold that word best? Asmodeus. Which Band depends on exactly how Bad Dice Rolls are used to further the interests of Hell. To make someone lose a game and thus put them in a position to be blackmailed or extorted? Balseraph. Simply to screw with people and afflict them with bad luck? Habbalah. A Lilim would also make a good choice (she clings seductively to the arm of the high-roller, reads his Needs as his luck fluctuates, and rakes in the Geases as she manipulates the rolls.) Of course, an Impudite would make a good casino worker, holding all the suckers entranced and urging them to keep rolling, their luck is *bound* to change (as he drains what little luck they have left....) > 7) Seeing as Fluerity has dominion over drugs, does he get all the caffeine > addicts as well? ((oh lord help us roleplayers... so many demons with word > that are biased against us)) Haagenti probably still has them, though Fleurity has caffeine itself. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:53:47 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> A few things Many, many questions from mink (and possibly a couple of answers from Leath: > 1) Folks have mentioned the [splatbooks] and i'm curious as to > how i can get > them. if any one can help me in this matter i'd be more than grateful. Assuming your local games retailer can't order them in, go to www.sjgames.com and follow the link to Warehouse 23, where you can mail order the In Nomine books. > 4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? angels demons or > both? which > superior would it come under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what Chior/Band > would be better to serve it? Since I can't recall a celestial of Horoscopes being printed, you can make it anyone you like in your game. Personally I'd stick it as an Infernal Word, probably as an Impudite. Many DPs could claim the Word, Kronos (trusting the alignment of planets to guide your actions is perfect fodder for Fate), Nybbas (how do people usually discover their daily horoscope? From the Media of course), Kobal (humans will believe _anything_) and probably a few others. > 6) What superior would be able to give the word of [bad dice > rolls] and what > band would uphold that word best? Again, decide based on what works for your game. Bad dice rolls could be The Game, Fate, Dark Humour, Factions, or others. The actual band would depend on the superior. For example, a demon of Bad Dice Rolls serving Asmodeus would probably be a Habbalite, punishing the humans for playing the Game. One serving Kobal could be a Balseraph or Impudite. > 7) Seeing as Fluerity has dominion over drugs, does he get all > the caffeine > addicts as well? ((oh lord help us roleplayers... so many demons with word > that are biased against us)) Fleurity (like every other Demon Prince) gets exactly how much he can grab. Lucifer has Worded the DPs with a lot of overlap to keep tensions high and stop them from uniting against him. IMO, Fleurity would have to battle Haagenti and Vapula (at least) for dominion of caffeine addicts. > 8) how would each of the AAs and DPs react to a circus.. your thoughts on > this please! The only one I'll venture a guess at would be Jordi, who would hate animals having to perform tricks for humans. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:54:07 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Sean McCarthy wrote: > I would think Saints can speak in high celestial, which means that> when they say "I am a Saint working on direct orders from the General> himself and I must speak with him immediately." it comes out in that> absolute literal truth sort of way. They can only speak celestial on the celestial plane (and if they can get to Heaven, the question of whether or not they're really a Saint is kind of moot). - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:05:33 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> A few things At 4:33 AM +0100 05/15/00, mink wrote: >1) Folks have mentioned the [splatbooks] and i'm curious as to how i can get >them. if any one can help me in this matter i'd be more than grateful. The Superiors line of books are the only 'Official' _Splatbooks_ that exist. The Splatbooks I'm hinting at, are humorous creations (including book covers!) that are no-where near available to the buying public, but are intended to make us laugh at the whole prospect of it. Really, the Band/Choir specific books are meant only as a _Joke_, that is based on the ever real White Wolf tactic to release a dozen Clan/Tradition/Kith books. . . With that said, I'll be pleased to send you the three covers I _have_ done your way, but keep in mind that I can only send 'em as attachments until I can get a webpage sorted out. >2) [...] Borris Vallejo [...] Yeah. Really, there is a TON of artists out there that one can use for INSPIRATION. I wouldn't go as far as actually scanning and uploading this copyrighted material (or, heaven & hell forbid actually _selling_ it) >3) Maher story, most excellent indeed, but what about the Elohite, or is >that another story? Probably another story. But I'm curious why this is the SECOND Maher story. Where is the first? *Makes _please_ eyes toward Genevieve* >4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? angels demons or both? which >superior would it come under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what Chior/Band >would be better to serve it? Simple. It's a Habbalite of the Media. (Go re-read their Cho. . . Er Band Attunement!) >5) [...] vapulan soldiers. [...] You're sick. I like that. "Just listen to me, and you'll go far. . ." >6) What superior would be able to give the word of [bad dice rolls] and what >band would uphold that word best? My first choice would be Fate. My second choice would be the Game. As for Band, I'd wager a Habbalite, maybe? >7) Seeing as Fluerity has dominion over drugs, does he get all the caffeine >addicts as well? ((oh lord help us roleplayers... so many demons with word >that are biased against us)) I do believe Caffeine is still under Haagenti (this will be elaborated in the forthcoming Expanded Writeup of Fleurity, who will appear in S4.) >8) how would each of the AAs and DPs react to a circus.. your thoughts on >this please! Jordi would be livid. Anyone else is anyone's guess, with the exception of those who despise Clowns. >Colgarothialmes, Demon of Damnation, Shedite with a keyboard Funny, I always thought Damnation was a Balseraph of Fate? Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:59:51 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) Sean wrote: > I would think Saints can speak in high celestial, which > means that > when they say "I am a Saint working on direct orders from the General > himself and I must speak with him immediately." it comes out in that > absolute literal truth sort of way. I dunno. I'd go the other way on this one. I tend to think that Saints speak angelic in Heaven (there's no other choice). However, in Heaven human souls don't actually think they're speaking in angelic, they simply speak in their own language and it's instantly translated as they talk. When other people talk to them they can instantly understand it in their own language with no error. How? It's Heaven! Therefore unless a Saint is on the celestial plane, he can only speak in whatever languages he knows. It won't take long to determine the truth, but Malakim are not known for their flexibility when the defence of Heaven is questioned. Leath (IMO, of course). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:59:04 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) At 1:02 AM +1000 5/15/00, Leath Sheales wrote: >EDG wrote: > > > I don't have all of my books with me (moved across the country > > again - long > > story), so I can't check it up, but I don't recall this bit of > > trivia - that > > lucid dreamers went to the Marches when they were possessed by a Shedite. > > This seems to be something of a strong disadvantage, no? > >AFAIK, this is only a question for Shedim of Factions. All other Shedim >share their hosts (therefore no dreaming) but Factions completely displace >their hosts mind, therefore they don't have to fight. I'm not sure from >memory if Shedim of Factions displace their hosts minds to the Marches, or >whether they just suppress the host so much that the human mind is still >present and dreamily watching, but can do absolutely nothing about it. >Unless someone has the IPG or CPG close to hand, it'll have to wait until I >get home. If the latter, then I'd be likely to declare the Saint in the Marches regardless, much as I'd declare a Celestial who's been driven out of his Vessel. Saints have Vessels, after all. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 02:12:03 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> A few things Tafka J wrote: > The Superiors line of books are the only 'Official' _Splatbooks_ that > exist. Also, the APG, IPG, CPG, upcoming EPG and possibly even the GMG could be almost considered 'splatbooks' (in that they help expand how to play an ). These are what I assumed he meant when I wrote my reply. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:02:39 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A few things At 10:53 PM -0500 5/14/00, David Edelstein wrote: >mink wrote: > > 4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? angels demons or >both? which > > superior would it come under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what Chior/Band > > would be better to serve it? > >Balseraph of Astrology, Fallen Seraph of Astronomy, Servitor of Kronos. >Teaches people to let the stars guide their fates -- they are helpless >to resist the influence of the heavens upon their lives. Note also that the Word of Horoscopes or Astrology aren't *innately* infernal, but I don't see the Seraphim Council ever giving a word that encourages false beliefs so directly. Whereas the Demons often *love* it, when they can control it. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:08:09 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A few things At 11:05 PM -0500 5/14/00, Tafka J. wrote: > > Probably another story. But I'm curious why this is the SECOND Maher >story. Where is the first? *Makes _please_ eyes toward Genevieve* Well, I found it at the same webpage the first was on. Though it was more a sequal to the Caliah story than not. The two Maher stories seem to be at: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction/maya/maher.html http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/maher2.html while her general (and excellently resourced) In Nomine page is at: http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine.html - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:22:42 -0500 From: Jonathan B Lotzer Subject: Re: IN> A few things Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 10:53 PM -0500 5/14/00, David Edelstein wrote: > >mink wrote: > > > 4) The word of {Horoscopes}, who would have it? angels demons or > >both? which > > > superior would it come under? YVES, KRONOS or MALPHAS? and what Chior/Band > > > would be better to serve it? > > > >Balseraph of Astrology, Fallen Seraph of Astronomy, Servitor of Kronos. > >Teaches people to let the stars guide their fates -- they are helpless > >to resist the influence of the heavens upon their lives. > > Note also that the Word of Horoscopes or Astrology aren't *innately* > infernal, but I don't see the Seraphim Council ever giving a word > that encourages false beliefs so directly. Whereas the Demons often > *love* it, when they can control it. > Perhaps a more interesting question, and one that is closely connected: Why is the Word false? If you believe the hype, there are a great number of legitimate people that live by them? Throughout history, prophecy has been seen as a legitimate tool of leaders, whether secular or religious. This seems to be more of an interpretation rather than a cannon issue. Jonathan B Lotzer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:58:02 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A few things At 11:22 PM -0500 5/14/00, Jonathan B Lotzer wrote: >Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > > Note also that the Word of Horoscopes or Astrology aren't *innately* > > infernal, but I don't see the Seraphim Council ever giving a word > > that encourages false beliefs so directly. Whereas the Demons often > > *love* it, when they can control it. > > > >Perhaps a more interesting question, and one that is closely >connected: Why is the Word false? If you believe the hype, there are >a great number of legitimate people that live by them? Throughout >history, prophecy has been seen as a legitimate tool of leaders, >whether secular or religious. But Prophecy in In Nomine is either true, in which case it comes from God, or False, in which case it comes from Lucifer. There is no consistent method that yields prophetic results -- even Gabriel receives prophecies intermittantly and outside of her own control, and I don't see anyone coming up with a better method than the Archangel of Fire. So, the mechanism of Astrology itself is false, by In Nomine canon. Now, as I said before, I don't see the Word as being *innately* infernal. Astrology in In Nomine could be used in positive ways as well as negative. However, I also don't see the Seraphim Council giving a Word to an Angel when that Word is innately false, and the Seraphim Council *knows* it's false. I think a greater balance of the Seraphim Council would rather see humanity turn to the church, to wise counsellors or to their communities for advice, rather than to the stars cloaked in a kind of pseudomathematics. > This seems to be more of an interpretation rather than a cannon issue. Er? The *Canon* is, as David said, that there is a Demon of Astrology, alluded to in the books. My capacity to speak for Canon beyond that is extraordinarily limited, or so it seems to me. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:35:50 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >I'd >probably figure them for automatic lucid dreamers, though, which >means that they'd be in the Marches, PO'ed, and making tracks >for Blandine's Tower. > A Shedite's host doesn't end up in the Marches. They stay in the body, sharing it with the demon. hat's how I'd always interpreted it. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:45:27 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) At 10:35 PM -0700 5/14/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Elizabeth McCoy >>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >>I'd >>probably figure them for automatic lucid dreamers, though, which >>means that they'd be in the Marches, PO'ed, and making tracks >>for Blandine's Tower. >> > >A Shedite's host doesn't end up in the Marches. They stay in the >body, sharing it with the demon. hat's how I'd always interpreted it. Even a Shedite of Factions, using its Attunement? - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:51:50 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) I am having a very hard time imagining there being that much red tape among Blandine's servitors. Given the nature of the Marches, one could just as easily say any random ethereal might LOOK like a Malakite...even a specific Malakite. So what is the procedure for Blandine's own Servitors to go home? You can just as easily extend the theory to "You look like Bobiel, everyone's favorite Seraph of Archives. You certainly sound like Bobiel. However, you might be an ethereal replica of Bobiel whose knowledge was gained by torturing Bobiel to death somewhere Out There. Please wait a few hours to get into Heaven..." If it is the case that everyone needs to be quarantined for examination prior to being allowed to enter the Tower(for quite a long time) ... that would change the sense of things a bit I think. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:04:50 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: RE: IN> Possession (was Quick Question) >From: Whistling in the Dark > >At 10:35 PM -0700 5/14/00, Jo Hart wrote: >> >>A Shedite's host doesn't end up in the Marches. They stay in the >>body, sharing it with the demon. hat's how I'd always interpreted it. > >Even a Shedite of Factions, using its Attunement? > > It's open to interpretation, but I would have said so. I just think it's important to the whole Shedite schtick that the host is still trapped in there somewhere. It's a horribly powerful attunement, mind. jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1626 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.