From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 18 14:30:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03866 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 14:30:18 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA15588 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 18 May 2000 14:28:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:28:29 -0500 Message-Id: <200005181928.OAA15588@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1632 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1632 In this digest: Re: IN> Laurence & Free Will Re: IN> Campaign Suggestions? Re: IN> Campaign Suggestions? IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> An Eli/Cyberpunk Question For You All... Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1631 RE: IN> New Angels IN> The Last Temptation of Yves IN> Gabrielle's judgement Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement Re: IN> In Nomine Dice RE: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement RE: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Re: IN> In Nomine Dice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:34:24 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Laurence & Free Will At 14:07 -0400 5/17/00, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Walter Milliken >>Why does this sound like something Vapula would experiment with...? > >Because I said it? :) Possibly. I didn't know you were in service to Vapula, though. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:37:09 -0400 From: Mary Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Suggestions? >blandine would be up for signing the contract. i don't think michael's dumb.< >if he honestly thought creation would be destroyed if the warring didn't< >end, and he didn't feel he could win at this time, he'd sign the contract. i< >think both jordi and gabriel would turn their noses up at it - "demons are< >demons".<< I think Michael knows more than one way to skin a Calabite than with a dull axe blade. He might sign a cease fire and stop *fighting* and use the time to gather intellegence, resources, heal and help some of the human casualties. Given that there is no way the other side is going to be unified to keep the treaty for more than a month or so, the cease fire is more of a chance to gather the dead and have some funeral games (have you gotten that far in the Iliad, J?). >>Normally I would agree with you. Let's just say that certain extenuating<< >>circumstances prevented this from happening. (Circumstances that cannot << >>really be revealed since a PC subscribes to this list.)<<< To guess at this CLUE style: That would by my PC in the Secret Lair of the Society of Friends underneath Tokyo with the big Ethereal Song of Harmony? You should see our group play Scrabble. Mary My Moon-based Death Ray Panics the people of Earth. Mock my theories now! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:37:09 -0400 From: Mary Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Suggestions? >blandine would be up for signing the contract. i don't think michael's dumb.< >if he honestly thought creation would be destroyed if the warring didn't< >end, and he didn't feel he could win at this time, he'd sign the contract. i< >think both jordi and gabriel would turn their noses up at it - "demons are< >demons".<< I think Michael knows more than one way to skin a Calabite than with a dull axe blade. He might sign a cease fire and stop *fighting* and use the time to gather intellegence, resources, heal and help some of the human casualties. Given that there is no way the other side is going to be unified to keep the treaty for more than a month or so, the cease fire is more of a chance to gather the dead and have some funeral games (have you gotten that far in the Iliad, J?). >>Normally I would agree with you. Let's just say that certain extenuating<< >>circumstances prevented this from happening. (Circumstances that cannot << >>really be revealed since a PC subscribes to this list.)<<< To guess at this CLUE style: That would by my PC in the Secret Lair of the Society of Friends underneath Tokyo with the big Ethereal Song of Harmony? You should see our group play Scrabble. Mary My Moon-based Death Ray Panics the people of Earth. Mock my theories now! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:03:17 -0700 From: "Matthew W." Subject: IN> In Nomine Dice I was looking at my World Domination Kit (and its nifty Pyramid in the Eye for ones dice) when the thought occurred to me: Would anyone else be interested in In Nomine dice (that are actually worth something and are neat, as opposed to White Puppy's "specific game" dice)? I figured you could have a dice set for each choir/band. You'd get six dice in a package (3 one color, 3 another, black/white or red/white probably). In place of the six on each dice is the symbol for the demonic band, and in place of the one is the symbol for its angelic counterpart. It would look very cool for interventions, and make them very easy to identify. Nothing more disconcerting to an Ofanite than seeing three Calabim fists staring back at him. = Mathus = = Demon of Rants = = ArchRival of Timothy = ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:13:50 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> An Eli/Cyberpunk Question For You All... Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: [massive snip of IN2020 setting background information] > How does this sound? Thoughts, comments? Cheers, jeers? Help me, please! Aside from the fact, IMHO, that Orc, Angel of Networks, is more likely to be the one to set up the Matrix, maybe with the assistance, in the form of inspiration, from Eli? It sounds good. Variant and non-canon, but good. I think I am going to steal the 'recalled and sent back' trick to restore a measure of sanity to Gabriel IMG. But the spooky prophetic side of Gabriel is also kicked into hyperdrive, and since most prophecies are only clear and understandable in hindsight, there are still going to be lots of folks looking at her sideways with 'doubtful of Her sanity' eyes. [thinking out loud] hmm, possible new Holy Fire [as opposed to Belial's Dark Fire] Attunement: Pyromancy: A Servitor of Fire gets wired in to Gabrielle's prophetic side, allowing them to temporarily become prophets [allowing the GM to give hopelessly stuck PCs a clue]. This Attunement can be erratic, like the big G herself -- sometimes, the Pyromancer gets zip -- nobody's home [GM isn't handing clues just now, either because it will give away the game, or because the PCs have all the clues already and are just stuck in a *physical* bind -- this Attunement is NOT a substitute for Summoning your Archangel!!!] or they get clues that just don't make sense, especially since this is not a questionable, or addressable, form of prophecy [Oedipus goes to a seer who is actually a Pyromancer in her earthside role as prophetess and asks about his future and gets a clue on where to find the Odessa Files in the 20th century, if he should live so long -- prophecies that come through don't necessarily have anything to do with the matter at hand, what the PCs really want to know]. Tom Timberlake, GM and sometime servant to a Hab. of Cruelty, - -- Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well - Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in hell! "Strange Blood" A Wolfrider's Reflection, by various artists ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:04:32 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice From: "Matthew W." > > Would anyone else be interested in In Nomine dice (that are actually > worth something and are neat, as opposed to White Puppy's "specific > game" dice)? Which are also worth something and neat, actually. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:13:29 -0500 From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice At 07:03 PM 5/17/2000 -0700, you wrote: >I was looking at my World Domination Kit (and its nifty Pyramid in the >Eye for ones dice) when the thought occurred to me: > >Would anyone else be interested in In Nomine dice? I certainly would, as In Nomine is one of the greatest RPGs imported to the US! Graveyard Greg _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death David Streeter wrote: > > So Obi-Wan was a Malakite? :-) Nah, Obi-wan was clearly a Balseraph -- the dude lied like a rug. Did he even once tell Luke the truth about anything important? :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:38:11 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death At 8:32 PM -0500 5/17/00, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >David Streeter wrote: > > > > So Obi-Wan was a Malakite? :-) > >Nah, Obi-wan was clearly a Balseraph -- the dude lied like a rug. Did >he even once tell Luke the truth about anything important? :) Sure... from a certain point of view. Man, how Balseraph can you *get?* - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:00:40 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice >>I was looking at my World Domination Kit (and its nifty Pyramid in the >>Eye for ones dice) when the thought occurred to me: >> >>Would anyone else be interested in In Nomine dice? > >I certainly would, as In Nomine is one of the greatest RPGs imported to the >US! While I disagree that IN and INS/MV are even close to the same game (and therefore IN has not ended up an import except via a stretch of the imagination), I *would* end up purchasing IN Dice (even on-line) assuming that they wouldn't cost more than $10 for the set. (I'd prefer $9.95 plus S&H) I would actually have use for the dice, unlike the jewelry. But please don't try and combine them (dice jewelry) or try to include an item of jewelry in each dice set in order to jack up the price. I *might* be willing consider paying extra for the dice if it came with an item of In Nomine Jewelry of my choice, if you need to get rid of them or something. But, still, I'd rather have that be optional. Choir/Band specific dice might be nice, except that Malakim and Lilim have no opposing equivalent. Perhaps a Halo in lieu of a Choir / #1 and Horns in lieu of a Band / #6. Another idea would be to use the Burning feather in lieu of the #6 and a Halo in lieu of the #1. In general I feel that the dice might be more marketable (and you'd be less likely to have stock sitting around unsold) if the dice are not choir/band specific. But, the smart people at SJGames probably already know that. Angel's Face (w/ halo) for #1 Demon's Face (w/ horns) for #6 - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation perrylloyd@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6045/index.html "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:31:33 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? > >>>New ways keep popping up, too -- I can see Jeanites (and Trade Servitors) > >being sent out with PalmPilots loaded with short-term crypto certificates, > >for example.<< > > > > I dropped a Palm Pilot on one of my PC's recently - he'd been > >driving his Trade contact buggy for info - an extremely old Seraph turned > >Malakite who hadn't been active on earth in quite awhile. The security > >wasn't just the fun part - it was watching a techy-savvy player have this > >old angel figuring out how to use a Palm Pilot... > > "Hey, it's totally intuitive, right? It just replaces your Rolodex and > your day-planner." "What do you mean, 'What's a Rolodex'...?" Well, I kept asking for the latest update and I suspect the Trade-contact was really tired of sending his Relievers around with *another* dispatch folder... I keep joking that all I have to do is hold it up to the sun for an IR beam, but it's actually wired into the "Jean-Net" or something. Rogziel doesn't care, he just wants the most up to date intelligence... *now* The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:18:28 -0500 From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice At 06:00 PM 5/17/2000 -0700, you wrote: >>>I was looking at my World Domination Kit (and its nifty Pyramid in the >>>Eye for ones dice) when the thought occurred to me: >>> >>>Would anyone else be interested in In Nomine dice? >> >>I certainly would, as In Nomine is one of the greatest RPGs imported to >>the US! > >While I disagree that IN and INS/MV are even close to the same game (and >therefore IN has not ended up an import except via a stretch of the >imagination) My imagination is easily stretched, and it was funny to type at the time ;-) Graveyard "Still want In Nomine Dice" Greg _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:35:53 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> How do I know you're what you say you are? > > I dropped a Palm Pilot on one of my PC's recently - he'd been >driving his Trade contact buggy for info - an extremely old Seraph turned >Malakite who hadn't been active on earth in quite awhile. The security >wasn't just the fun part - it was watching a techy-savvy player have this >old angel figuring out how to use a Palm Pilot... >>"Hey, it's totally intuitive, right? It just replaces your Rolodex and your day-planner." "What do you mean, 'What's a Rolodex'...?"<< He caught on in fairly short order, but the look on his face when I dropped this one in his lap was great... Kiara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:38:08 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1631 >I'd say that Zaphod was a good role model for a Balseraph, >between his egotism and his talent for self-delusion. >Not necessarily an *effective* balseraph... Personally I label the entire group a bunch of outcasts. I mean LOOK at Zaphod's dissonance! Probably ticked off some major higher ups in hell with that theft there..... Ford struck me as the perfect example of what an dissonate (bad taste in clothing) Eli servitor of the Mercurians would be.... right down to the poor choice in mortal soldier. "Hello"-Arthur Trillian as a Jeanite works very well I think. I'd say Elohim but...well...you know. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 02:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: RE: IN> New Angels On Mon, 15 May 2000, Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: > > Character I'm dying to play : Reliever of Creation > > > > No Choir Dissonance Condition, no Superior Dissonance Condition. > > Or he could just be a Cherub of Creation and not attune to anyone... Same > deal. Not really. Remember, Cherubim get dissonance for betraying their friends as well as allowing their attuned to be hurt. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! Though they broke my legs / They gave me a crutch to walk / Laws to guide me / And a crutch to walk. / Amen. -- Chumbawamba, "Today's Sermon" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:29:54 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Last Temptation of Yves Hey folks I'm doing a chronical for In Nomine based around the Archangel of Destiny's possible corruption. Basically the premise is that Yves only begotton son Thyphoon (the Malakim who did the Flood-nice work there) has been destroyed by demons in Israel and Lucifer himself has taken the time to point out exactly how senseless that was. Thus Yves has lost faith in the one thing he should have faith in: Himself. As the will of God for the first time he's doubting whether or not he's actually doing the right thing and if the one above really DOES know whats best. He's now no longer sure that everything will turn out well for everyone in the end. Was the Flood necessary? Why do angels serve humans? If Hell is defeated....won't more evil come? etc. Basically the premise is that the players have a year and a day to gather information around the world to prove God's plan is actually working and if they don't....Yves will fall. Thus likely triggering what is more or less probably going to be the Apcolypse (if mankind's fate is to be Evil....dang). I was curious if I could get some comments from everyone on this precept and see if anyone had any idea for what kinduv direction the campaign should take, Archangels reactions to all this/Demon Princes too, etc. All in all I think it's quite cool. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:35:13 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Gabrielle's judgement Hey I unfortunately am a little sketchy on the details of Gabrielle being tried for Dominic for heresay? Ummm what's up with that. I'm kinduv new to In Nomine and unfortuantely I lack a good deal of information on the subject....as Gabrielle is a major focus in my campaign. I was curious if I could get a decent thought or two on this. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice > I figured you could have a dice set for each choir/band. You'd > get six dice in a package (3 one color, 3 another, black/white > or red/white probably). Great idea, but you'd only need four per set: two b/w and two b/red. (I like black-red dice.) Seraph? Roll two and one. Balseraph? Roll one and two. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:27:49 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement It's covered somewhere in the main book, then in more detail in the GMG and APG (or so I would think. I actually got the APG after the GMG, and so haven't bothered with APG's history section :p). Anyways, to sum up: Gabe (as a male aspected Archangel, by the by) speaks to shephards in Bethlehem etc. as per New Testament, more or less. Trouble comes, though when he dictates the Qu'ran (sp?) to Mohammed (sp? again. It's one in the morning. Gimme a break here) at Yves' behest. Dominic is concerned that Gabriel wasn't entirely faithful to the text given her (by God. Gabe is Heaven's prophet), and consult's Yves, who refuses to comment. Dominic then orders Gabriel to stand trial (it's at about this point that the gender-shift starts to occur). Gabe refuses and storms out of Heaven. Michael starts to grow suspicious of Yves' motives, since he (Yves) could probably have proven one way or another whether or not Gabriel was changing the word of God. (I personally think that she didn't, but that Yves didn't comment because he wasn't sure. 'Cause of ineffability. But I'm an idiot optimist. It's obvious that Gabriel is manipulating humanity towards her own ends with religion, and that Yves is in on it ^_^) Think I got this right. If I'm not, I'm sure someone will be good enough to correct me, and insult my parentage as well if I was too far off. Cheers, Ryan "If it had been a goatherd, and not a shepherd, that had been spoken to, things would have turned out much differently. Because sheep are stupid, and need to be driven, and goats are intelligent, and need to be led" -T. Pratchett, Small Gods, paraphrased ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:22:14 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice > Great idea, but you'd only need four per set: two b/w and two b/red. I agree on this point: you'd need groups of 2+1 dice. Maybe a 6 pack could include the 3 dice of a choir and the 3 of the corresponding band. Except for Malakim, of course. Humans and undeads dice could be cool too. I also agree on the speculation that it would sell better than jewlery. Anyway, I'd really be VERY interested. Laurent. PS: different dice styles could be nice too: marble, transparent, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 02:39:53 -0700 From: "Robert Veneman-Hughes" Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine Dice > I also agree on > the speculation that it would sell better than jewlery. > Yeah - All of the gamer jokes about gamers being fanatically superstitious about their dice aren't that far off, really - a set of IN dice would be wonderful. They could get their own special shrine... - -Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:56:47 -0400 From: "Galen G. Silversmith" Subject: Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death > Return-Path: neelk@alum.mit.edu > David Streeter wrote: > > So Obi-Wan was a Malakite? :-) > > Nah, Obi-wan was clearly a Balseraph -- the dude lied like a rug. Did > he even once tell Luke the truth about anything important? :) I vote Mercurian (and dissonant, possibly outcast). He's hiding out, in the middle of nowhere for many years, avoiding the smackdown from on high. He's a smooth talker, rarely actually hurts anyone or anything, tells the convient lies a lot to smooth things over... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:18:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses Michael Walton wrote: > Eli's out there finding brilliant scientific minds > and channelling their energy into technological innovation (much to > Jean's chagrin). Is this trespassing on Jean's Word? I know that, in the interests of making sure invention is used for good, Jean often acts as a brake against Vapula's accelerator, but I had the impression that technological creativity was still part of Jean's Word, while Eli's was more artistic creativity (which overlapped some with Blandine's Word). In short, I saw four of the Archangels as "muses," with the following roles -- Eli: artistic creativity, how to achieve an emotive result Jean: technical creativity, how to achieve a technical result Blandine: aspiration, goals to aim for Gabriel: insight, sudden realization Was I off-base? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:30:27 -0400 From: "EDG" Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement > Hey I unfortunately am a little sketchy on the details of Gabrielle being > tried for Dominic for heresay? Ummm what's up with that. I'm kinduv new to > In Nomine and unfortuantely I lack a good deal of information on the > subject....as Gabrielle is a major focus in my campaign. I was curious if I > could get a decent thought or two on this. Ryan has posted a nice synopsis of the situation, but I feel obliged to add to his plugs that you might also want to consider the upcoming Superiors 3, which includes the full writeup of Gabriel. More information is available at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/superiors3/. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:30:56 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine Dice - --On Thu, May 18, 2000 02:39 -0700 Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: >> I also agree on >> the speculation that it would sell better than jewlery. >> > > Yeah - All of the gamer jokes about gamers being fanatically > superstitious about their dice aren't that far off, really - a set of > IN dice would be wonderful. They could get their own special shrine... > > -Robert > Or their own Chivas Regal bag. Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:53:39 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Gabrielle's judgement At 4:27 -0400 5/18/00, Ryan Elias wrote: >It's covered somewhere in the main book, then in more detail in the GMG >and APG (or so I would think. I actually got the APG after the GMG, and >so haven't bothered with APG's history section :p). It should also be covered in Gabriel's extended writeup in Superiors 3, though I admit I haven't looked at S3 during playtest (too busy on GURPS In Nomine at the time). >Gabe (as a male aspected Archangel, by the by) speaks to shephards in >Bethlehem etc. as per New Testament, more or less. I don't think there's any problem with this part; Dominic's perfectly happy with Christianity.... > Trouble comes, though >when he dictates the Qu'ran (sp?) to Mohammed (sp? again. It's one in >the morning. Gimme a break here) at Yves' behest. Dominic is concerned >that Gabriel wasn't entirely faithful to the text given her (by God. >Gabe is Heaven's prophet), and consult's Yves, who refuses to comment. >Dominic then orders Gabriel to stand trial (it's at about this point >that the gender-shift starts to occur). Gabe refuses and storms out of >Heaven. Michael starts to grow suspicious of Yves' motives, since he >(Yves) could probably have proven one way or another whether or not >Gabriel was changing the word of God. That sounds roughly correct. There's also an implication that the problem is due to the conflict between Islam, which Gabriel was instrumental in creating, and Christianity, which Dominic favors. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:02:31 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses At 11:18 -0400 5/18/00, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Michael Walton wrote: > >> Eli's out there finding brilliant scientific minds >> and channelling their energy into technological innovation (much to >> Jean's chagrin). > >Is this trespassing on Jean's Word? I know that, in the interests >of making sure invention is used for good, Jean often acts as a >brake against Vapula's accelerator, but I had the impression that >technological creativity was still part of Jean's Word, while >Eli's was more artistic creativity (which overlapped some with >Blandine's Word). That's pretty much the way I see it, though I don't think the overlap would worry anyone in Heaven that much -- it's really cross-Word support, not trespass. >In short, I saw four of the Archangels as "muses," with the >following roles -- > >Eli: artistic creativity, how to achieve an emotive result >Jean: technical creativity, how to achieve a technical result and the drive to understand the physical universe (I ascribe the drive to understand humanity to Raphael/Yves) >Blandine: aspiration, goals to aim for >Gabriel: insight, sudden realization I tend to see Gabriel as more "passion for any subject", and put insight as part of Jean's Word (for technical/scientific matters), or Eli's (for artistic matters). I should note that I've been assuming that Raphael was primarily concerned with knowledge related to humankind, philosophy, etc. (the "soft sciences", if you will), while Jean was concerned with the "hard" sciences, while both were still working for Yves. (Such a division of labor between the two Elohim most concerned with knowledge in general seems to make sense.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:25:00 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses > Is this trespassing on Jean's Word? I know that, in the interests > of making sure invention is used for good, Jean often acts as a > brake against Vapula's accelerator, but I had the impression that > technological creativity was still part of Jean's Word, while > Eli's was more artistic creativity (which overlapped some with > Blandine's Word). > > In short, I saw four of the Archangels as "muses," with the > following roles -- > > Eli: artistic creativity, how to achieve an emotive result > Jean: technical creativity, how to achieve a technical result > Blandine: aspiration, goals to aim for > Gabriel: insight, sudden realization I'ver always seen the Words (esp. of Archangels) as being rather all-encompassing. Thus if something is created, made, built, whatever from a house to a new song to a biowarfare agent the act of it's creation serves Eli's Word. I also sort of see actions as often serving multiple Words with the chance of that happening going up as the Word gets more powerful. Jean has all of electricity/science/technology from a H. side and while there is a lot of creation that goes on as a part of his Word. A power station has a lot more to do with Jean's Word than Eli's (though it's still "Creating" power, unless you make the argument that it is only harnessing it...) That's also why Gabriel and Belial drive each other nuts, while Azreal and Saminga don't IKC. Belial and Gabriel share a Word but really embody opposite viewpoints of it. Every time one of them turns around the other is doing something that is like fingernails on a blackboard for thier version of Fire. The major thing that Saminga does that really gets under Azreal's scales is Undead and that is a relatively small portion of what Saminga concentrates on. He doesn't want to turn everything into Undead, he just wants to kill everything. Undead are his servants and tools, not his goal. Other than that, every other action that Saminga takes still fuels Azreals Word and Saminga hasn't been really that concerned with perverting the Word of Death (other than Undead) just making it more and more powerful. Mind you Azreal really hates the way that Saminga has turned Death into a thing to be feared and everytime someone dies before thier appointed time it really vexes him also... (Azreal refers to Saminga as "the Abomination") In Kiara's campaign Eli is one of the most powerful (if not *the*...) of the Archangels, along with the other "elementals": Gabriel, Janus, David and then also Micheal, Jean, and Azreal. Thier Words are these huge over-arcing concepts that are fed by actions that they don't even like but gain strength from anyways. However some of thier energies go towards maintaining facets of thier Word that Laurence, Dominic, Marc, Zadkiel, etc. don't have to and really don't understand. Sure, David draws upon the continential drift for his Word but he also has to spend the energy to keep it going. It pretty much ends up being a zero-sum over the long term. But in the short term.... The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:33:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Fwd: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Ashley ] (Gotta s-u-b-scribe to the poster's list first...) >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:02:10 +0100 >From: Ashley >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice > > >>Choir/Band specific dice might be nice, except that Malakim and Lilim have >>no opposing equivalent. > >And it might at times give the plot away especially if a character is not >supposed to know the nature of the others PC's. > >> Perhaps a Halo in lieu of a Choir / #1 and Horns in lieu of a Band / >> #6. Another idea would be to use the Burning feather in lieu of the #6 >> and a Halo in lieu of the #1. > >Prefer this. Cool. > > >Ashley >ashley.omentide@virgin.net >http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide >Look for important information at: >http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide/ofk.htm >And for even more important information see: >http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide/K2.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:24:42 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses I never thought of Eli of being a muse at all. His purview is the actual creative process, which is what happens _after_ someone has had an inspiration and decided to do something about it. He's also indiscriminate - -- it doesn't matter to him whether someone is creating Great Art, or just making a stew for supper, as long as they are putting some of themselves into it. Contrast with Blandine who is a bit of a snob, and is much more interested in great artists and dreamers than with the mundane. And I think Jean's bolts from the blue usually come to people who have spent some time studying and thinking about their problem. This is like where you spend a few days worrying over some work, and then one morning you suddenly realise what the answer is. I suspect he likes people to have made some kind of effort first ;) jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:35:02 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Eli vs. Jean, and Archangels as Muses At 9:24 AM -0700 5/18/00, Jo Hart wrote: >I never thought of Eli of being a muse at all. His purview is the >actual creative process, which is what happens _after_ someone has >had an inspiration and decided to do something about it. He's also >indiscriminate -- it doesn't matter to him whether someone is >creating Great Art, or just making a stew for supper, as long as >they are putting some of themselves into it. Contrast with Blandine >who is a bit of a snob, and is much more interested in great artists >and dreamers than with the mundane. > >And I think Jean's bolts from the blue usually come to people who >have spent some time studying and thinking about their problem. This >is like where you spend a few days worrying over some work, and then >one morning you suddenly realise what the answer is. I suspect he >likes people to have made some kind of effort first ;) I agree with both. Whereas the "inspiring spark" we might associate with a muse would fall under Gabriel, I'd think. Though they'd all interlock together. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:19:20 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice Those sounds so cool. I'd probably pick up four or five sets alone, if they were of good quality and looked spif. I know my players would get all tingly to actually be able to roll MALAKITE DICE! YEAH! Or whatever, or even dice with halos and horns. As it is, I just purchased too gloomy-colored sets and used two and one, and handed 'em out to my players. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:13:50 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death > Nah, Obi-wan was clearly a Balseraph -- the dude lied like a rug. Did > he even once tell Luke the truth about anything important? :) Not specifically going after anyone, but this just popped something in my brain. Angels lie. Demons lie. Lots of things in In Nomine lie. In fact, unless they are resonating, Balseraphs are very likely to not lie. Does anyone else have players who automatically assume that anyone lying to them (animal, vegetable, mineral) is a Balseraph? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:15:40 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice >Those sounds so cool. I'd probably pick up four or five sets alone, if >they >were of good quality and looked spif. > >I know my players would get all tingly to actually be able to roll MALAKITE >DICE! YEAH! Or whatever, or even dice with halos and horns. As it is, I >just purchased too gloomy-colored sets and used two and one, and handed 'em >out to my players. Yeah, I'd love to have Impudite/Mercurian dice. :) ...What would be on the '6' portion of Malakim dice? - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of Kronos - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com Go Directly to the Blog http://www.impudite.com/abt-blog.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:13:26 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Question - Vessels & death At 11:13 AM -0600 5/18/00, ben wrote: > > Nah, Obi-wan was clearly a Balseraph -- the dude lied like a rug. Did > > he even once tell Luke the truth about anything important? :) > >Does anyone else have players who automatically assume that anyone lying to >them (animal, vegetable, mineral) is a Balseraph? Well, when they use a mystic power that forces people to accept their word as reality, then yes I do. "These aren't the droids you're looking for." - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:23:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice > Yeah, I'd love to have Impudite/Mercurian dice. :) > > ...What would be on the '6' portion of Malakim dice? The Lilim Hook... ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:36:41 GMT From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice > > ...What would be on the '6' portion of Malakim dice? >The Lilim Hook... I thought that at first, too; but wouldn't that conflict with the Lilim/Bright Lilim dice? - -Erich S. Arendall "Shadow Sprite" Demon of Critical Failures at the Worst Possible Time for Players and the Best Time for GMs, Impudite of Kronos - ------------------------- Touched by an Impudite http://www.impudite.com Go Directly to the Blog http://www.impudite.com/abt-blog.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:28:08 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Dice - --On Thu, May 18, 2000 18:15 +0000 "Erich S. Arendall" wrote: >> Those sounds so cool. I'd probably pick up four or five sets alone, >> if they >> were of good quality and looked spif. >> >> I know my players would get all tingly to actually be able to roll >> MALAKITE DICE! YEAH! Or whatever, or even dice with halos and >> horns. As it is, I just purchased too gloomy-colored sets and used >> two and one, and handed 'em out to my players. > > Yeah, I'd love to have Impudite/Mercurian dice. :) > > ...What would be on the '6' portion of Malakim dice? > "BOOM!" Marc. Just Marc. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1632 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.