From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 29 16:41:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17618 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 16:41:41 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA27553 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 29 May 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:40:07 -0500 Message-Id: <200005292140.QAA27553@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1648 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1648 In this digest: Re: IN> Six ideas for Yahweh IN> Re: The NSA (was Celestial physics expertize required...) Re: IN> Re: The NSA (was Celestial physics expertize required...) Re: IN> Re: The NSA (was Celestial physics expertize required...) Re: IN> Ahem... RE: Celestial physics expertize required... (was Re: IN> Losing Superiors) RE: IN> Campaign stories Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Fundies (Re: Pentagrams) Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial Re: IN> LRP in England Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Re: IN> LRP in England Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors IN> Sluggy Freelance Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Love amongst the Superiors Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Sluggy Freelance Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Sluggy Freelance Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Re: IN> LRP in England Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:18:57 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Six ideas for Yahweh At 4:35 PM -0500 5/28/00, David Edelstein wrote: >"Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > > I take it you read the series? Does your eloquently phrased email denote > > that you didn't like the series or that you don't agree that the Doom Vs. > > Beholder scenario is very similar to the Yahweh Vs. Creator scenario that > > was being discussed. > >The former. ("Secret Wars" was during the Jim Shooter era, IIRC.) Though >granted, it wasn't nearly as retchworthy as Secret Wars II. But a few >more years of crap like that was what finally drove me away from comic >books. (Of course, cover prices that seemed to go up by about 50% per >year also played a part.) Agreed, a hideous hideous piece of work, entirely designed to get a 12 issue "everyone in the Marvel Universe together" maxi-series out *before* DC released the much better "Crisis on Infinite Earths." The pair of series then inaugurated the "annual mass crossover," which is one of the worst things to happen to mainstream comics since... hm. Ever. It was a few years later, but "Zero Hour" is what cured *me* of comic books forever, as "Secret Wars" did David. "Zero Hour" actually is just as germane, thematically, to the Yahweh discussion. A single Ethereal/Superhero discovers the key to assuming ultimate power over the Multiverse/Symphony. He seeks to totally rewrite history to his whim, and as he will be rewriting all of history anyway he doesn't mind slaughtering even friends to accomplish his goal. The other Ethereals/Superheroes fight to stop him before he pulls off his goal. It tracks pretty closely to the Ethereal theory, actually. Especially since had Parallax succeeded, there would be no way to know it was ever any different in the universe, and Parallax would have be totally omnipotent and utterly unassailable in the universe, much as God is in In Nomine. It was also hideously bad, and featured the Green Lantern of my youth tearing Cosmic Boy's trunk from his legs, Cosmic Boy having been revealed as the Time Trapper, the Legion's most implacable foe. I decided with that scene that either I'd outgrown comics, or they outgrew me. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:31:42 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: The NSA (was Celestial physics expertize required...) David Edelstein wrote: > Robert Veneman-Hughes wrote: > > > > Canonically, the NSA Headquarters just outside the city (in Fort > > Meade, VA)> is a > > Which never made much sense to me. I used to work there; it's just a > big Intel facility, and there's nothing much sinister about it. (It > is high security, but unless you think Military Intelligence is > inherently diabolical, it's not *evil*). The NSA is the world's largest employer of mathematicians, and the NSA's biggest facility is at Ft. Meade. Since we have it on good authority that mathematicians are in league with the Devil: The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell. - St. Augustine, DeGenesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 we may infer that Ft. Meade is obviously a tether to Vapula. :) > In a darker campaign, though, they could be spying on the civilian > populace and hatching clipper chips and such. This is one of the best knocks on the NSA I have ever seen. It cracked me up -- thanks. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:50:33 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: The NSA (was Celestial physics expertize required...) Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > This is one of the best knocks on the NSA I have ever seen. It > cracked me up -- thanks. For me, the biggest knock on the NSA is that it was one of the most BORING jobs I've ever had. That and the fact that apparently no vendors capable of making halfway decent coffee could get a security clearance. - -David (sucky coffee on a boring job at 3 a.m....OK, maybe it is diabolical after all) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:54:15 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: The NSA (was Celestial physics expertize required...) At 5:50 PM -0500 5/28/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > This is one of the best knocks on the NSA I have ever seen. It > > cracked me up -- thanks. > >For me, the biggest knock on the NSA is that it was one of the most >BORING jobs I've ever had. The road to Hell is paved with dull intentions. (For me, Hell wouldn't be everlasting torment. It would be everlasting beige. Trapped in a small room with no windows or doors and the color beige to look at. After about a half day, I'd be screaming my fool head off.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:53:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Ahem... > >http://sluggy.com/stuff/highlite.html > > > >Finally, some respect from the Net Gods on high. > > I'm glad he liked it! Me, too! Yikes! You know how many people read Sluggy on a daily basis??? O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:16:13 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: Celestial physics expertize required... (was Re: IN> Losing Superiors) Laurent asked: > actually, I have another question which has nothing to do with > this story: if a > Kyriotate of Jean possesses... hem... say, the clothes of another > angel (or > demon). And the latter decides to go celestial. What happens to > the clothes? IMO the clothes go celestial as tey would any other time. The Kyrio is 'dumped' from the host. If it has other hosts, fine, if not, it automatically assumes celestial form right there. Not a good choice in a demonic tether. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:40:23 +1000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: RE: IN> Campaign stories Charles wrote: > This is about THEE most awesome image I can imagine to Gabrielle and > Dominic's conflict, thank you very much. Mind if I borrow it for my > campaign? Not at all. Feel free. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:33:37 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine >>But like I said, most Christian gamers seem to be able to deal with this just fine. It's only the pagans that go looking for injury.<< The pagans I know who play this game don't have a problem with the game. On the contrary. A good portion of my gaming group *is* pagan, and enjoy the game immensely. Your insitence, however, on portraying most pagans as whiney types *is*, however, insulting, David, as is your insistence on treating just about any reference to the possibility that someone might be offended as whiney on their part. Pagan gamers aren't out looking for injury - you are out looking for any excuse to be insulting. Your opinions are just your opinions. I just get tired of listening to this particular one over and over, every time the subject comes up. Yes, I know I have the right to drop off the list, but I'm not going to deny myself the great input from the rest of the list, nor the good stuff you post just because I am utterly sick of listening to you turn this forum into a chance to call pagans whiney. Post your "pagans are whiney" opinions on your website, where I don't have to read them any more, and get them off the list. Regards, Ki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:48:52 -0500 From: "David Rodemaker" Subject: Re: IN> Fundies (Re: Pentagrams) > >2: Not that IN needs any help with this matter but the Christian Fundies out > > [As a note, I don't knw what _he_ means when he says Fundie, but I know > what I mean; it's not necessarily "Fundamentalist." A Fundie is a thing > beyond. My grandfather, sweet 100-this-year old guy that he is, is a > Fundie. *sigh*] That is waht I meant... the first one that is. > Actually, I figure some nice controversial bible-thumping "Thayas hearah > book is EEEEEE-VIL" promotion might be interesting. But I've never got > up the gumption to send a book to the fundies. And the one I'd want to > send would be, like, the APG and I don't know if they'd get righteous > enough about it. Probably not... Sup #2 would get a nice reaction though :) The Other David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:39:34 -0500 From: "Kiara S. Legner" Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) > > > I have an idea! Why don't we use the Star of David? It has six points, > > >jo wrote: >8 points :) > >Erm, Jo? It's two intersecting triangles. That's six. > >Ki >They point in as well as out, Ki... On a Star of David? Erm... I don't think so. I've got one right here in front of me. Six exterior points, made up of two overlapping equilateral triangles. The center forms a hexagram. You aren't, by any chance, thinking of that Crowley design that looks like two old Star Trek insignia dropped on top of each other, are you? 'Cause if you aren't, I'm now confused.... Ki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:02:13 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Pentagrams (was: In Nomine Dice) At 9:39 PM -0500 5/28/00, Kiara S. Legner wrote: > >You aren't, by any chance, thinking of that Crowley design that looks like >two old Star Trek insignia dropped on top of each other, are you? 'Cause if >you aren't, I'm now confused.... So was I, so ignore me. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:34:28 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine "Kiara S. Legner" wrote: > Your insitence, however, on portraying most pagans as whiney types *is*, > however, insulting, David, I've never said any such thing about "most" pagans on this list. >>>Pagan gamers aren't out looking for injury - you are out > looking for any excuse to be insulting. Nope. If I was looking for any excuse to be insulting, I could find many, many opportunities. I'm very creative that way. ;) But I also don't usually pull out all the stops except when people do that to me. Keep it in private (like last time), and so will I. If you choose to do it in public....well, it won't bother ME, though it will probably bother everyone else. >>> I just get tired of listening to this> particular one over and over, every time the subject comes up. Well then don't bring it up over and over. If you keep expressing your opinions, I'll keep expressing mine. - -David (but I'm flattered that you read my website :)) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:40:01 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Resonating while Celestial I certainly hope they can, otherwise Shedim and Kyriotates would not be able to posses anyone. as for packs of Calabim rampaging about using their resonance, that would create _incredible_ amounts of noise, first for ascending, then for hanging around in celestial form, then for all the damage. Protecting them from the Game for such an attention drawing action isn't something _I'd_ have any Prince do (except perhaps Kobal). - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "Our Fathers were the model for God. If Our Fathers failed, what does that tell you about God?" - -Tyler Durden, Fight Club ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:34:42 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > I'm (slowly) doing up some live ShadowRun rules for a friend. I'd like to see what's left of a ShadowRun game once you take the fight scenes off. And the matrix... I'd love to see how you'll handle the matrix!! Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:12:29 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... *** Mark wrote: *** >> I need a Vapulan Tether in Washington. > DC? or State? > Washington State has the lovely Hanford Nuclear Reservation DC, but I'll keep that one in mind. Thanks! *** David Edelstein wrote: *** > I used to work there; it's just a big Intel facility, > and there's nothing much sinister about it. You used to work at the NSA Headquarters?!? But I thought you were a writer... what in Hell were you doing there?!?!? *** Walter Milliken wrote: *** > I used this trick on the Lightning Kyrio in my campaign; > he wound up dumping his Essence on other people for a bit, > to reduce himself to the amount that you might find in a > pigeon (1-Force, so 1 Essence). He *loves* pigeon vessels.... My player favores crows... At some point in the last adventure, he had 3 crows, 1 police officer and a cloudy form... All of them being very active and at various places. Yes, he's got Janus' attunment, but that's what he LOVED the Kyrio for. _I_ wanted him to be a servitor of Jean... > Ft. Meade is one of the most secure locations on Earth > All you need to add is a few anti-celestial measures, and it will be one tough nut to crack. I know it's a long shot, but since you use it as a Vapulan Tether (and others seem to do so), would anybody have any maps I could borrow? I am NOT being lazy here!! This would be, as engineers call it, an optimization and resources re-use technique. *** AA Beth wrote: *** > Shedite Seneschals who have their own mainframe (and _aren't_ using > a relic version -- just _have_ one 'cause they're Seneschals there) are > evil and icky and generally have control over the environmental system ooooh that's good. I love it!! gimme more. > And they have Force Catchers, Vapulans do. Loads of Force Catchers. > I mean, they just hates little Kyrios of Lightning, and they _know_ what > the blessed little buggers can do, soooooo..... hehehe I'm gonna have so much fun... > Or else maybe he _should_ get part of himself trapped in a small Force Catcher. Good trick! I'll save this one for a possible Intelligence roll... Thank you all for the replies. Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:44:38 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) From: Patrick O'Duffy > It's not about idiots, it's about competency. You have people actually > 'acting-out' fight scenes, they _both_ need to be able to do effective, safe > stage-combat. ah, i think i see where we differ. i'm not talking about stage fighting, per se. all the games we run (and all the games i've played in in other places) feature fake "rubber" weapons (actually made out of latex). if made well these look pretty cool and don't hurt people if you smack someone with one. so a sword fight actually consists of people with tese fake swords trying to hit each other, as if in a real fight. people keep track of how many "hits" they have. if they get got with a sword, they lose a hit (or more, if their opponent's a nasty one). some games feature locational hits, so for instance if you get hit on the right arm, you'd lose a hit from your "right arm hit points". locational hits area little trickier to keep track of but mean you can disable parts of people's bodies without necessarily knocking them out. plus it also gives a point to ambidexterity skills. as a general rule, at our club we disallow blows to the head, to avoid the risk of getting poked in the eye, and obviously people are expected not to get too carried away or hit too hard > Screw realism. It's not important. Fun is what's important. well, it was realism along the lines of "if you get shot you fall over and start bleeding lots". i think i was hoping that by making gunfights fairly deadly, i'd put people off getting into them. fat chance. > For that 'system', I'm simply dividing characters into 3 levels of competancy. > Level 3 always beats level 2; level 2 always beats level 1. Within a level, you > can flip a coin to see who wins. The loser gets hurt and has to step out for > five minutes of medical attention from yours truly. i couldn't really justify this in my modern-day game - there aren't any medical procedures at the moment that sort out a bullet wound in five minutes, and besides the paramedics would call the cops if people started shooting each other. i could see it working in a cyberpunky game though. i see your point about "fun" over "realism", though. i think i was wary of spoiling the players suspension of disbelief. i'm not sure if it's just me, but it seems easier to get LRPers to believe they're elves or beastmen in some pseudomedieval game, than to get them to believe they're cops or government agents in the modern-day. maybe it's something to do with immersing yourself in the setting > Of course, this is not a true LARP system like Mind's Eye Theatre (or even my IN > rules) - this is a freeform with pregen characters. If I were ever to write a > _real_ Shadowrun system (and I'm not about to), I'd have to make things more > flexible. But I'd still want to keep it as simple as possible. yeah, i'd definitely agree there. i find the less simple a system is, the more work i have to do. therefore, simple = good :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:45:02 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England From: Omentide > If I may intrude to sort out a few semantics here... The problem is that > 'combat-orientated' and 'theatre-orientated' LARPs are both called by the > same name. Just as angels and demons are all Celestials. This doesn't > make an angel into a demon or vice versa so, by analogy... the games i play/run tend not to be divided along combat/theatre lines but freeform/linear lines. both (usually) feature combat *and* roleplay. linea games are more along the lines of traditional "monster bashes" where a party of adventurers is wandering around the wilderness trying to complete an adventure. the Ref has a set list of encounters that will happen, pretty much regardless of what the players do or where they go. these games are obviously fairly combat-heavy in a D&D-stylee, for every talkey encounter there's a fight usually, but there is still plenty of roleplaying going on. plus of course the players are interacting with each other in-character all the time > It seems to me that IN is much better suited to Freeform (desperately > trying to avoid the pretention of 'interactive theatre') styles than > simulated combat styles. I can't see what the IN background has to add to > an ongoing simulated combat game (though it could be good fun as a 'one off'). yeah, i'd definitely see an IN game as being an indoor "political" game with characters mostly just talking to each other. but if a fight does arise for whatever reason, i like the players to be able to fight it out rather than stand there and say "he wins". it makes it more fun for them, and more dramatic for the people around them. plus it helps suspend the sense of disbelief > Roomsful of people playing Angels, Demons, Ethereals, Soldiers and Mundanes > in various combinations are a lot of fun. We've run several IN LARPs this > side of the pond (in the UK and in Ireland). We don't use scissors, paper, > stone but we have had several serious smitings... sounds a good laugh. if you ever do any games anywhere near lancashire let me know... > The problem with simulated weapons in IN is that they can't replicate some > of the more interesting effects (resonance, attunements etc). like what? the only things i can think of that would cause problems would be things like firey swords, and if a player actually wanted to go the whole hog they could buy or make a sword that actually does have a flame-shaped blade (i've always wanted one of those, they look coool) >There are > plenty of games where you can hit your opponent with a sword or shoot them > with a firearm. The 'supernatural' component of IN is integral to the > nature (and the 'feel') of the game. So, whilst I can see the fun in a > horde of Malakim with rubber swords storming the gates of Hell, it strikes > me that it would be just another fantasy boffer game with a few bolt-ons, > rather than something distinctively In Nomine per se. i agree with you to the extent that to base an IN game around combat woud be a waste of potential, plus probably a horrendous pain in the arse (i'd imagine you'd need a horde of refs to run around keeping track of all the songs and attunements flying around). however, swords and guns *are* an element of the setting (as is conflict) so i don't see the need to omit these elements liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:23:36 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Laurent wrote: > You used to work at the NSA Headquarters?!? But I thought you were a writer... > what in Hell were you doing there?!?!? You're Not Cleared for That. Fnord. Seriously, I used to be in the Army. (And writing is only something I do in my free time, now.) > I know it's a long shot, but since you use it as a Vapulan Tether (and others > seem to do so), would anybody have any maps I could borrow? Uh, if you find a map of the NSA (by which I assume you mean an internal layout), then there will be some important government people who will want to know about it..... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 06:09:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors > (one of my favorite stories is how Michael found out about a > pregnant gal and how he dealt with it) Okay, spill. O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 29 May 2000 09:08:49 -0400 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: IN> Sluggy Freelance In Nmine got a plug on Sluggy Freelance today: http://sluggy.com/stuff/highlite.html. Apparently sometime Sluggy villain K'Z'K got a mention in Superiors 2 (just another reason I'm breathlessly waiting for my copy to arrive at the game store). This may be old news for some of you, but I thought it was awfully nifty. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:14:53 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors "O. S. Kerr" wrote: > > > (one of my favorite stories is how Michael found out about a > > pregnant gal and how he dealt with it) > > Okay, spill. It's a bit of Derek Pearcy's fiction which I think is still somewhere on the SJG IN pages. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:52:11 +0100 From: "Laurent" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... David wrote: > Uh, if you find a map of the NSA (by which I assume you mean an > internal layout), then there will be some important government people > who will want to know about it..... Well, not the official map, of course. Just something someone would have used for a campaign, and that I could use for mine. Though you DID work there... so how much would it be for a rough map?? Laurent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 06:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... - --- Laurent wrote: > David wrote: > > Uh, if you find a map of the NSA (by which I assume you mean > > an internal layout), then there will be some important > > government people who will want to know about it..... > > Well, not the official map, of course. Just something someone > would have used for a campaign, and that I could use for mine. > Though you DID > work there... > > so how much would it be for a rough map?? What's the point? It's basically a secured office space... Decide on your own how big it is and how many people work there, and make your own maps. Not worth getting arrested over... :) O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:11:22 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors At 8:14 AM -0500 05/29/00, David Edelstein wrote: >It's a bit of Derek Pearcy's fiction which I think is still somewhere on >the SJG IN pages. Two Courts (Heaven & Hell, p. 4-5). It's about a Mercurian of War that got pregnant by a Shedite of Lust. Both Servitors are on trial in the vignette. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:13:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst the Superiors > We know Eli approves of Love in all forms and a Angel falling > in love with a demon is cool with him as long as he gently > steers her towards the light (he'd add a "dude" in there > somewhere too). I also see him as a having a few romances > (mortal and immortal) if he turns out not to be God (it's a > big question in my campaign) Does it matter if he's really God or not? The persona of Eli has definitely gone a few rounds... ever hear that God is Love? :) > Novalis no doubt feels much the same way save with a little > more dissaproval in case a vessel should happen to leave a > mortal pregnant (safe sex is her motto) or vice versa. > Novalis likely has been cuddling up to Jean for a while and I > wouldn't doubt if they had a romance... or David... or > basically anyone in heaven at some point. Novalis? Safe sex always? Heaven's answer to the Earth Mother? No(Be Friutful And Multiply)valis? Nah. In general, possibly. In specific, it's more of a guideline than a rule. Jean???? The Emotionless One? No Way! Janus, maybe. Jordi, maybe. Eli, sure. I could even see Dominic. But Jean??? Nah. > Andre, well...as one guesses I sincerely doubt he cares one way > or another what his followers do with their sex lives... it is > his nature after all. However likely he would be very > disturbed by any followers who truly fall in love and would > personally get out the flamming sword to kill the little > whore/bast***. He is probably still looking to sleep with > Lucifer. "...doubt he cares..." Wrong. He goes over the sex lives of his minions with a fine-toothed comb. And there had better be dirt, depravity, and total lack of concern for one's partner. "...be very disturbed..." Um, yah. It's called "dissonance conditions." It's The Main Thing He'd Be Disturbed About. "...get out the flaming sword..." Oh, no, my pet... swords are so... gauche, if phallic in a crude way. I leave the swords to Larry's cuties. For my punishments... well, start with a slow evisceration with chopsticks... > Lilith all in all cares not what her Lilim do as long as their > happy and profitable (the former is optional). I've kinda > always pictured her as Lucifer's consort so I don't know if > she's actually sleeping around all that much in Heaven or in > Hell as depicted in myth. (she was the enemy of young mothers > and friend of young men after all)... Consort = committment Committment = lack of freedom All bad. > I'd really appreciate some ideas for the rest of the > Superiors if anyone can spare the time please...thanks. Gimme a second, and I can give you my .02, for what it's worth... O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 29 May 2000 10:13:53 -0400 From: jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Jason F. McBrayer) Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks >>>>> "SMG" == Stephen M Gingell writes: SMG> Not that any sane Seraph would ever say this but what happens if a Seraph SMG> says... SMG> "This statement will immediately cause me dissonance." I think he'd be okay --- a Seraph can say things that are false, if they believe they are true. So Budiel the Seraph, having listened to all the discussion later on this thread, decides that saying the phrase above will cause him dissonance. He decides to take the chance, since he's gunning for the Word of Paradox. Budiel: "This statement will immediately cause me dissonance..." (squeezes all six eyes shut) (...) (opens three eyes...) Budiel: "Well, guess I was wrong...". - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:20:10 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Celestial physics expertize required... Laurent wrote: > > so how much would it be for a rough map?? > Drawing a "rough map" based on anything other than my imagination would be a felony. However, you might check out "The Puzzle Palace," which has a lot of information about the NSA that they really would have preferred not be published. I don't think it has maps, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:21:04 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors "Tafka J." wrote: > Two Courts (Heaven & Hell, p. 4-5). It's about a Mercurian of War > that got pregnant by a Shedite of Lust. Both Servitors are on trial in the > vignette. Ah. That was MY vignette. I thought you were referring to an earlier piece. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. S. Kerr" Subject: Re: IN> Sluggy Freelance > This may be old news for some of you, but I thought it was awfully nifty. Old, but only by a few hours, so newly old. Is it not nifty? You know how many *gamers* read Sluggy???? Maybe there should be a "how did you hear about the game" postcard with the next edition... :) O. ===== ** Lead Playtester for Storyteller: The Colon ** ** I minored in behavioral psychology. Tragic irony and human suffering are just hobbies. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:05:20 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors At 9:21 AM -0500 05/29/00, David Edelstein wrote: >Ah. That was MY vignette. I thought you were referring to an earlier >piece. I wasn't asking the question. Was just trying to answer it. };;;> If there is an earlier piece, I wouldn't know of it. . . Unless it's something in one of the Dead-Tree versions of Pyramid. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:13:48 -0700 From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Sluggy Freelance At 07:26 AM 5/29/00 -0700, you wrote: > > This may be old news for some of you, but I thought it was >awfully nifty. > >Old, but only by a few hours, so newly old. > >Is it not nifty? You know how many *gamers* read Sluggy???? Steve Jackson, I'd wager--hear he's at the Sluggy Dinner at DragonCon... Graveyard "I read it too" Greg _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:26:09 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors At 9:11 AM -0500 5/29/00, Tafka J. wrote: >At 8:14 AM -0500 05/29/00, David Edelstein wrote: > >It's a bit of Derek Pearcy's fiction which I think is still somewhere on > >the SJG IN pages. > > Two Courts (Heaven & Hell, p. 4-5). It's about a Mercurian of War >that got pregnant by a Shedite of Lust. Both Servitors are on trial in the >vignette. Not the same piece of fiction -- there was one about a Servitor of War who "lost control of her vessel" and became pregnant (before the APG/IPG/Song of Fruition rules) by a human. Michael sent her to a Tether to bear and give up the child. I don't remember author or location, but it *wasn't* Derek Pearcy, I don't think. It lacked bite, though it was good. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:49:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:25:28 -0400From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Seraph Tricks At 13:44 -0400 5/26/00, Stephen M Gingell wrote: >>Not that any sane Seraph would ever say this but >>what happens if a Seraph says...>>"This statement >>will immediately cause me dissonance." >>;) >It explodes messily.... Darn. I was going to say that. ;) >Seriously, if someone did this in my game, I'd give >them dissonance. Yeah, that would make it true, and >therefore nominally not dissonant, but even >contemplating this sort of trick ought to be worth >some dissonance.... >- ---Walter Better and better, this would make a useful security procedure for Infernal Tethers. Simply walk up and say this phrase aloud ... in both Angelic and Infernal. All angels get a point of dissonance, except for those with the Seraphim resonance, who get two! Morgan (FAW) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:59:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Love amongst Superiors Whistling in the Dark wrote: > I don't remember author or location, but it *wasn't* Derek Pearcy, I > don't think. It lacked bite, though it was good. I'm pretty sure it was Derek. I can't find the dang thing on the SJG IN site or the INC, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:18:01 -0700 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> LRP in England Laurent wrote: > Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > > I'm (slowly) doing up some live ShadowRun rules for a friend. > > I'd like to see what's left of a ShadowRun game once you take the fight scenes > off. And the matrix... I'd love to see how you'll handle the matrix!! I don't. No matrix, very little combat, a bit of fairly subtle magic. What's left? Character interaction. Forget magic, combat, cyberwear, Attunements, Songs or whatever bells and whistles you like; the core of LARP games _must_ be character interaction. Every single person must be kept constantly talking, allying, debating, blackmailing, scamming, plotting, rhymin' & stealin'. Even more so than in tabletop. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Stop being so fucking happy! It makes me want to puke twenty years of cigarette tar directly into your mouth! - Spider Jerusalem, TRANSMETROPOLITAN #21 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:42:03 -0700 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Live Gaming (was: LRP in England) Liam Astley wrote: > ah, i think i see where we differ. i'm not talking about stage fighting, per > se. all the games we run (and all the games i've played in in other places) > feature fake "rubber" weapons (actually made out of latex). if made well > these look pretty cool and don't hurt people if you smack someone with one. > so a sword fight actually consists of people with tese fake swords trying to > hit each other, as if in a real fight. people keep track of how many "hits" > they have. if they get got with a sword, they lose a hit (or more, if their > opponent's a nasty one). Sounds like the boffer weapons I used to play around with, waaaaay back when I had an interest in the SCA. From memory, those can still cause injury. And it's not even about hitting too hard - it's about accidents. Hitting someone in the eye by mistake, falling over and hurting yourself by mistake; that sort of thing. That isn't happening on my watch. My other problem is that this is an exclusionary practice. In a 'theatrical LARP (or whatever you want to call it), anyone can play anyone. The traits of the player don't need to reflect the traits of the character. That's not the case in 'act-out' combat games? What if you're in a wheelchair, but want to play a martial artist? What if you're vision impaired, but want to play a sharpshooting gunman? What if you're 6'5" (like me) but want to play a Shadowrun dwarf? Bluntly, you _can't_ in such an environment. And I think it'd be a shame to lose that freedom. If you like things the way you run them, great! More power to you. I'm just explaining why I'll always prefer a different style of things. > > Screw realism. It's not important. Fun is what's important. > > well, it was realism along the lines of "if you get shot you fall over and > start bleeding lots". i think i was hoping that by making gunfights fairly > deadly, i'd put people off getting into them. fat chance. You're right. Fat chance. People _will_ get into fights, no matter how deadly the system, because players are almost always convinced that they will win. They're special. With this SR game, the writer has set it in an bar surrounded by toxic gases. If a stray round punctures the wall, _everyone_ dies. So no guns. Oh, and no-one _has_ any guns, because they're all in a sfae behind the bar. (Hmm? What? In Nomine content? Oh, right. Well, replace comments about designing Shadowrun LARP with IN LARPs instead. It's all generally the same kind of thing, I think. But I'll try harder to stay on topic.) > > For that 'system', I'm simply dividing characters into 3 levels of > competancy. > > Level 3 always beats level 2; level 2 always beats level 1. Within a > level, you > > can flip a coin to see who wins. The loser gets hurt and has to step out > for > > five minutes of medical attention from yours truly. > > i couldn't really justify this in my modern-day game - there aren't any > medical procedures at the moment that sort out a bullet wound in five > minutes, and besides the paramedics would call the cops if people started > shooting each other. i could see it working in a cyberpunky game though. Handwaved away as advanced medical technology. Anyway, it was a flesh wound. Really. The first bullet's always a flesh wound. Now, a _second_ wound becomes more serious. Anyway, dying _sucks_ in LARPs, even more than tabletop. At least in regular gaming you can wander off and watch TV until the session ends. What are you gonna do in a LARP context? Sit around and watch? > i see your point about "fun" over "realism", though. i think i was wary of > spoiling the players suspension of disbelief. i'm not sure if it's just me, > but it seems easier to get LRPers to believe they're elves or beastmen in > some pseudomedieval game, than to get them to believe they're cops or > government agents in the modern-day. maybe it's something to do with > immersing yourself in the setting Frankly, I don't even both with SoD in LARPs. For that, I'd need a costume budget, special effects for magic, a sound system, real alcohol behind the bar... not doable, in my opinion. It's _always_ going to feel fake. Given that, I'd rather conecntrate on producing fun fakery that not-as-fun, still-largely-fake-fakery. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Stop being so fucking happy! It makes me want to puke twenty years of cigarette tar directly into your mouth! - Spider Jerusalem, TRANSMETROPOLITAN #21 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1648 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.