From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 5 04:38:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA23600 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:38:25 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id EAA00046 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:36:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:36:04 -0500 Message-Id: <200007050936.EAA00046@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1699 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 5 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1699 In this digest: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1698 Re: IN> Yet More Babbling About Our Favorite Hippy Chick... IN> Shards Re: IN> Beyond the Pale Re: IN> Shards IN> Hell TV Re: IN> Shards Re: IN> Hell TV Re: IN> Yet More Babbling About Our Favorite Hippy Chick... Re: IN> Beyond the Pale IN> Idea (the one for this year!) IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. IN> Running Ads ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:55:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #1698 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:33:21 -0400From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Beyond the Pale >I like this, as long as it's rare. If it were more >common, you'd see Princes *encouraging* demons to go >for this... it'd be a distinction, ofsorts. Yup. I conceived this as the celestial equivalent to dropping the Bomb: it's most effective as a threat, and as a benchmark of "this is what we'll oppose with conventional methods, and this is what you shouldn't even think about making of a habit of unless you want to start the Final War RIGHT NOW, and screw the prophecies". Use it too often, and it loses its bite. Six times in about 20,000 years sounds about right. :) >Anyhow, this is an interesting idea, but its very >rarity suggests that it's not too likely to come up >in play. Again, yup. Nonetheless, it _could_ come up once, as part of the background noise. Especially if your PCs are showing a certain indifference to human megadeaths... :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of Do You Feel Lucky? Well, Do You, Punk? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 01:19:11 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Yet More Babbling About Our Favorite Hippy Chick... >Enjoy, don't enjoy, tell me to stop rambling. We enjoy; ramble on. >Progenitors I like this idea... the angels of, say, Trees or Bacteria would be at least as old as Novalis, and with nearly as good a claim to Superior status (we won't even mention the ancient, and very peculiar, Angel of Fungus). >For now, the >Progenitors do nothing more active than watch mankind >with inhuman patience and unblinking eyes. > >For now. Yeah. The angel of Trees would have at least as much reason as Jordi to be grumpy with mankind. >Pesticide [snippage] Too dark and low contrast for MC, but an interesting idea. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 02:59:32 -0500 From: Michael Mihallik Subject: IN> Shards Shards A Campaign Concept for In Nomine Created by Michael Mihallik, with help from Douglas Muir. The campaign idea detailed below is heretical for what would be considered a canonical In Nomine game. End of warning. There was war in Heaven. Fully a third of the angels of Heaven sided with the Lightbringer, and their rebellion shook Creation. Michael prevailed over Lucifer his brother, and cast him down from the walls of heaven. Lucifer, the Light that once was, fell into the depths of Hell where God’s Symphony did not reach, and when Lucifer struck… he shattered. Lucifer was a Seraph, even during the Fall. He knew the Truth with every fiber of his being. The mystery of how Lucifer the favored Archangel could become Lucifer, Prince of Hell, remains unanswered. Here’s one take on the matter. Imagine Lucifer (before the Fall) as a prism, with the shining white light of Truth taken into him and refracted so as to wring greater beauty from it. This was how Lucifer was intended to be. As a Seraph and an Archangel, Lucifer explored the possibilities of the Symphony and showed his brethren new ways of looking at God’s creation. This ability to reveal to his brethren all of the colors and refractions of the Truth, unique to Lucifer, was at first a source of pride. Lucifer’s pride was not Truth, and the dissonance of that pride drove him to madness and rebellion. When Michael cast Lucifer down, the prism that was Lucifer shattered, and forces which had been part of Lucifer flew free from the metaphysical impact, creating a number of distinct “shards”. It is already known that Archangels can replicate angels of Choirs other than their own, and that Demon Princes have similar ability in creating demons of other Bands. Any Superior, according to canon, may utilize the resonance of a Choir or Band other than his own. Lucifer, maddened and glutted with new power, maintained his new nature by compartmentalizing those parts of his psyche that did not mesh with the being that he became in the moment of his Fall. Those fragments broke free as shards, each with a number of forces attached – sort of a spontaneous creation of new celestials. As ages passed, some of those fragments of his personality have gained form and more forces - the children of his thought, the (often distorted) pieces of his Truth. Each shard holds a fragment of the Truth that was Lucifer, or a fragment of his nascent madness. The Lucifer that God created (henceforth referred to as “Lucifer Prime”) is no more. The largest shard, a Balseraph, convinced himself that he was Lucifer, and with the amount of power that had flowed into Lucifer Prime during the rebellion, none of the new demons had the will or temerity to challenge. Besides, the rest of the rebels arrived in Hell somewhat later than Lucifer, who could create any story he wished and as a Balseraph believed it. One shard, which embodied the insubordination of Lucifer, became Uzal, the Balseraph Demon of Insubordination. Another shard, embodying the reverence of Lucifer for God over all, even in spite of God’s favor for Man, became Iblis the Djinn, who by Islamic tradition was damned when he refused to bow before Adam and betray the commandment that nothing be honored before Allah. Yet another shard, embodying the impulse which led Lucifer to test Eve with temptation during the Eden Experiment, became Samael of Hebrew tradition, a Habbalite, still testing the worthiness of humanity for Heaven and firmly convinced that he works in God’s service. The shard embodying the need of Lucifer to uncover and reveal the Truth eventually fledged into Litheroy, now the Seraph Archangel of Revelation. Perhaps one shard, holding fragments of outrage upwelling from Lucifer Prime’s consciousness, nursed its rage through the eons until eventually fledging as a Malakite, and so on… Only those shards that originally possessed (or later gained) forces in all three realms (Corporeal, Ethereal and Celestial) could be considered viable celestials. Other proto-shards, possessing forces in only one or two realms, might still exist somewhere but would most likely have dissolved into the Symphony. Still, there might be shadows in the Marches, each with a bit of disjointed wisdom, which never gained corporeal or celestial forces, and Remnants of Lucifer Prime may lurk somewhere on Earth. Shards are independent beings, with unique motivations and distinct personalities. Though they share a common origin, they will not conveniently fit back together like some celestial jigsaw puzzle, and most would heartily resist any efforts to do so. They do not merge into celestial amalgam beings when they come into contact with one another. Some ancient celestials who were around before the Fall might see a faint resemblance between a shard and their memory of Lucifer Prime, but it’s been a long time... Only a few celestials know or suspect the truth. The shards themselves would be largely ignorant of their origin, and have few solid avenues of inquiry, since Lucifer Prime (and presumably God) would be the only beings cognizant of this essential Truth. Yves certainly would have guessed, and by extension so might Kronos. Litheroy might have uncovered the truth of his creation, but it’s likely that the enigmatic Yves would have asked that he not reveal that fact for risk of adversely affecting the destinies of other beings or parts of the Symphony. Others may suspect but lack any facts. Certainly the Lucifer shard would maintain his first and greatest Lie by spreading misinformation about the shards, and crushing any who seriously grew close to the Truth. Story seeds: The PCs come into possession of an ancient relic – a crystalline statuette which depicts an angelic being. The mysterious artifact draws the unwanted attention of powerful forces, both infernal and divine, all bent on obtaining the relic at any cost. The relic is a pre-Fall depiction of Lucifer Prime, and is a central clue to unraveling the mystery of the shards. The Lucifer shard would certainly not wish such an artifact, which might reveal his biggest Lie, to continue existing… and other celestials would want to get their hands on it based upon their own suspicions. Those few who know of the shards have surmised that Lucifer Prime may only be restored to wholeness should all of his errant shards join in achieving the Destiny of the Lightbringer, or in sealing his Fate. Such an event would alter the course of the entire War for good or ill, but the angelic shards are not likely to favor Falling, and the demonic shards will be resistant to the idea of redeeming... even if they were let in on the truth. Still, the shards have quite a potential for individual power stemming from their origins, and both Heaven and Hell would be remiss to allow such power to fall into the hands of the opposition unchallenged. Litheroy may not be the only shard to rise to the rank of Archangel. The most ancient among the Archangels (and the first Princes among the Fallen) suspect there may be a resemblance between the First of the Fallen and Heaven’s general. These suspicions remain closely guarded secrets because these ancient Archangels fear that Laurence might falter if he were to learn his origins. Some might benefit if those suspicions were revealed at a crucial time, but there are many on both sides of the War who would keep those suspicions unspoken. Feedback will cheerfully be accepted via e-mail (dialas@mtco.com). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:49:54 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Beyond the Pale > (Mm, is there a Celestial Ten Most Wanted list? Sounds like a job for an > Elohite of Judgement somewhere...) In Heaven? No. In Hell? You better believe it, baby! Reality programming is where it's at, and here at Hell's Most Wanted, we give you exactly what you've been beggin' for! In today's special, we're on site at the San Diego Zoo where a hit-squad of Calabim will really, honest-to-badness, really storm the Tether and actually grab a real, live, kickin' and screaming angel! Yessir, here at Hell's Most Wanted, even the Light of Heaven won't stop us! Cut to commercial. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:54:33 -0600 From: "ben" Subject: Re: IN> Shards > his nascent madness. The Lucifer that God created (henceforth referred > to as "Lucifer Prime") is no more. The largest shard, a Balseraph, Lucifer Prime and his arch-foe, the Metatron. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 14:06:00 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Hell TV >Yessir, here at Hell's Most Wanted, even the >Light of Heaven won't stop us! Oooh. I'm flashing on a diabolical version of "Survivor"... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:13:22 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Shards From: "ben" > > his nascent madness. The Lucifer that God created (henceforth referred > > to as "Lucifer Prime") is no more. The largest shard, a Balseraph, > > Lucifer Prime and his arch-foe, the Metatron. I had a Metatron, but it never transformed right, and the head wound up falling off. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:23:18 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Hell TV From: "Douglas Muir" > > >Yessir, here at Hell's Most Wanted, even the > >Light of Heaven won't stop us! > > Oooh. > > I'm flashing on a diabolical version of "Survivor"... Closer to the movie version of "The Running Man," but yeah. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 2000 13:13:41 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Yet More Babbling About Our Favorite Hippy Chick... On Mon, 03 July 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: > Weird. I seem to be on a Novalis jag lately. This > stuff is a little low-contrast, low-brightness, so at > least I'm not being driven by my usual relentless > optimism... :) Hey Beth, has an author for the Novalis expanded writeup been found? Because if not, I wanna nominate Maurice here. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 17:47:50 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Beyond the Pale Beyond the Pale! I like it! But really, I can't help but think that Novalis feels really bad about pronouncing a demon Beyond the Pale, especially nowadays, since she's gaining a certain notoriety for it. I can envision her naming a demon Beyond the Pale, watching all the angels in heaven going on a rampage, killing the demon, and then having a big drunken barbeque about it. Novalis would hate herself for causing this. She's probably swear off Beyond the Paleing for a millenium or so. Angels would approach her, covered in demon blood, and say, "Hey, Novalis! That was cool! Any more Beyond the Palers for us to kill?" And Novalis, choking back tears, would say, "No! No more! From now on we'll redeem them all!" But a thousand years would pass, memories would begin to fade, and another Bastard would present himself. She probably didn't even create the name "Beyond the Pale". Or if she did, she regrets it. She would absolutely despise the idea of having her name attached to a phrase that's become synonymous with a Symphony-wide blood hunt. Just my $.02 Reverend Brian A. Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:54:59 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: IN> Idea (the one for this year!) Hi folks, I have just had my annual idea, and no doubt it has been thought up before. Humans with 6+ Forces can perceive the Symphony, correct? No doubt those who do not have this explained to them are probably going to be unsure as to what it is, and it might just be a niggling feeling that they keep picking up 'vibes' or ethereal music at the edge of their perception. What happens to humans with 6+ Forces who do not become Soldiers/Undead/whatever, and have never had the whole thing explained. They have this weirdness and they are obviously more perceptive in some ways than other humans. It occured to me that some might meet and band together to form some sort of conspiracy group, a sort of In Nomine Illuminati. OK, I was inspired by Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum (Kenneth Hite calls this the 'great post-modern novel', an appelation that is even weirder than this decidedly weird book!) but it got me thinking about people who think they have a great secret or insight and actually have not. So these'Illuminati' think they have a great advantage and plot to take over the world/Atlantis/Arkansas/etc. They think their special power makes them better than other mortals (and to an extent this is true, 6 Forces v. 5, etc). However, Celestials laugh at them and they are really only getting garbled glimpses of the truth. Link this in to the NRT and you could have a group who think they have the secret. They have caught snatches of the symphomy and maybe seen some Nephillim. So they want to try to stop this evil. They might try sorcery, conspiracy, etc. However, of course they have only scratched the surface, and got the wrong end of the stick at that! This might work in an illuminated In Nomine game as David suggests in the GMG. Any thoughts on what becomes of abnormal humans who somehow escape the War directly? Chris Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 17:13:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. Let me reiterate, here. I'm _not_ complaining. It was just that I noticed that, in my last net-dive through the INC, that my little bit on Novalis' motivations made it in. Now, I have no objections to it being there, mind, and I'm pleased as punch that it made the cut. What I'm just curious about is: a, can I assume that posting something here is sufficient notification that I want it to be considered for there, too? It'll make my life easier; and b, what exactly _is_ the relationship between this list and submitting things for publication in Pyramid and SJG in general? Does anything ending up here count as "previously published", and if so, does it become invalidated for later revision and selling? The people I've asked didn't know*. :| Needless to say, EDG, if you want to add the Demon of Legoes and my Saint of Michael to the characters in the INC, feel free. :) Morgan (FAW) Kyriotate of Destiny Petitioner for the Word of I'll Continue To Post The Bloody Things Anyway. I Just May Have To Change My Tactics A Little, That's All. *I ask because I revised my ethereal Uncle Sam, tacked on some suggestions for play and an adventure seed, and sent it off as a topical Supporting Cast submission. Of course, I explicitly informed the Pyramid editor that the character writeup appeared here first, so I won't be surprised if it gets tossed for that reason. I'm reasonably certain that everything's kosher this way, but it doesn't hurt to check. :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 2000 19:35:11 -0700 From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. On Tue, 04 July 2000, Maurice Lane wrote: > a, can I assume that posting something here is > sufficient notification that I want it to be > considered for there, too? It'll make my life easier; That's the premise I've been operating under, and so far you're the first to comment (not complain) about it. > b, what exactly _is_ the relationship between this > list and submitting things for publication in Pyramid > and SJG in general? Does anything ending up here > count as "previously published", and if so, does it > become invalidated for later revision and selling? The > people I've asked didn't know*. :| I'm not a lawyer. However, I seem to recall hearing that the mailing list and its archives are the property of SJGames, but the actual work is copyrighted to the authors. So while it probably counts as being previously published, it's still in an SJG-owned forum. > Needless to say, EDG, if you want to add the Demon of > Legoes and my Saint of Michael to the characters in > the INC, feel free. :) You'll get better results if you go through me. I've been editing (as in cleaning up, not rewriting) and html-izing those postings that impress me as suitable for the INC. All EDG does is upload them and keep the front page up to date. ;) Perhaps I should petition for the Word of Nagging EDG. :) For those folks who don't see their submission on the INC, and feel it deserves to be there, you should email either me or EDG with a copy of your submission. Of course, if you HTML-ize it, your chances of it getting put up increase immensely. > *I ask because I revised my ethereal Uncle Sam, tacked > on some suggestions for play and an adventure seed, > and sent it off as a topical Supporting Cast > submission. Of course, I explicitly informed the > Pyramid editor that the character writeup appeared > here first, so I won't be surprised if it gets tossed > for that reason. I was planning on including that in the next update, but if you'd like I can hold off on it until you hear back from Pyramid. If they publish it, wonderful. If not, send me the expanded writeup (or post it, whatever) and it'll get on the INC. Deal? > I'm reasonably certain that everything's kosher this > way, but it doesn't hurt to check. :) Speaking of Kosher, who would you have as the Angel of the Kashrut? I'm thinking Seraph of Judgement.... - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 _______________________________________________________ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Many to choose from! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:43:49 -0500 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> A clarification about this mailing list/INC/Pyramid. NOT a complaint. At 7:35 PM -0700 07/04/00, Casca wrote: > You'll get better results if you go through me. I've been editing (as in > cleaning up, not rewriting) and html-izing those postings that impress me as > suitable for the INC. All EDG does is upload them and keep the front page up > to date. ;) Thanks for that too, since the INC is something we all can use to enrich our gaming lives. > Perhaps I should petition for the Word of Nagging EDG. :) I'd go for the Word myself. . . (What with all the times I kept nagging him about the Character Sheets, and about how the art-pages and fan-fiction pages are in desperate need of updating.) But I'm happy with the Word I selected. > For those folks who don't see their submission on the INC, and feel it > deserves to be there, you should email either me or EDG with a copy of your > submission. Of course, if you HTML-ize it, your chances of it getting put up > increase immensely. Thankfully, _most_ of what I've written is already in .html format. Though I know I'll need to .html-ize my second Silly Artifact for Solitaire. . . (Which I'm going to revamp overall anyway.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = tafkaj@thrifty.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 02:35:17 PDT From: "Jo Hart" Subject: IN> Running Ads Any chance of putting up some spot or banner ads on some of the other online RPG ezines other than Pyramid. I can't think that it would be all that expensive to run some ads on rpg.net or wounds unlimited ... jo ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1699 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2000 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.